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TechnoratiObama Tries to Block Release of Detainee Photos
President Obama is seeking to block the release of photographs depicting American military personnel abusing captives in Iraq and Afghanistan, an administration official said Wednesday.
The president's decision marks a sharp reversal from a decision made last month by the Pentagon, which reached a deal with the American Civil Liberties Union to release photographs showing incidents at Abu Gharib and a half-dozen other prisons.
"Last week, the president met with his legal team and told them that he did not feel comfortable with the release of the D.O.D. photos because he believes their release would endanger our troops," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity. "And because he believes that the national security implications of such a release have not been fully presented to the court."
Mr. Obama advised his top military commanders about his decision in a meeting on Tuesday at the White House. Several military officials had argued against the immediate release of the photographs, saying such action could harm American troops in the field.
"The president strongly believes that the release of these photos, particularly at this time, would only serve the purpose of inflaming the theaters of war, jeopardizing US forces," the official said, "and making our job more difficult in places like Iraq and Afghanistan."
"Odierno and McKiernan and Petraeus have all voiced real concern about this," said Geoff Morrell, the Pentagon press secretary. "Particularly in Afghanistan, this is the last thing they need." Mr. Morrell said. Defense secretary Robert M. Gates shared the concerns of his commanders about the impact of the photo release on the troops and the battlefield and that Mr. Gates and President Obama had had a "multitude of conversations" on the issue.
The Pentagon's decision to release the pictures came after the A.C.L.U. prevailed at the Federal District Court level and before a panel of the Second Circuit. The photographs were set to be released on May 28. But as that date approached, a growing sense of unease among military officials was expressed to the White House.
Many also recalled the Abu Ghraib photographs, showing prisoners naked or in degrading positions, sometimes with Americans posing smugly nearby, caused an uproar in the Arab world and concerns within the military that the actions of a relatively few service members had tainted the entire forces.
In this more recent case, the A.C.L.U. argued that disclosing the pictures was "critical for helping the public understand the scope and scale of prisoner abuse as well as for holding senior officials accountable for authorizing or permitting such abuse," said Amrit Singh, who argued the case on behalf of the group before the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, in Manhattan.
A senior administration official said that the president met last week with his legal team and reached the conclusion that the interests of the military and the U.S. government would not be served by releasing the photos.
"The president would be the last to excuse the actions depicted in these photos," the administration official said. "That is why the Department of Defense investigated these cases, and why individuals have been punished through prison sentences, discharges, and a range of other punitive measures."
The next step was not immediately clear. White House officials said a court filing was due on Wednesday, which would outline the administration's legal approach.
Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, is set to take questions about the photographs during the press briefing that is scheduled for 1:30 p.m.
During the court case, defense officials had fought the release of the photographs, connected with investigations between 2003 and 2006, on the grounds that the release could endanger American military personnel overseas and that the privacy of detainees would be violated. But the Second Circuit, in upholding a lower court ruling, said the public interest involved in release of the pictures outweighed a vague, speculative fear of danger to the American military or violation of the detainees' privacy.
Earlier reports indicated that at least some of the new pictures show detainees being intimidated by American soldiers, sometimes at gunpoint, but A.C.L.U. officials said last month it was unclear what scenes were captured. At the lower court phase, a federal prosecutor said the Pentagon had agreed to release 44 photographs involved in the case, plus "a substantial number of other images" gathered by Army investigators.
Elisabeth Bumiller and Thom Shanker contributed to this post.
104 Comments so far
Show AllFYI
On page A19 of today's NYT, the right wing conservative think tank, Accuracy in Media, paid for and published a full page ad puporting to be sponsored by 'Torture Truth Project', a project of AIM.
T O R T U R E
Throughout The Entire World
The Word 'Torture' Means Intense,
Lasting, Brutal Physical Agony
Why Is The U.S. News Media Eagerly
Spreading An Incalculably Harmful Lie
That Can Only Motivate Terrorists To
Further Attacks On America?
A Grassroots Plea To
The U.S. News Media
Stop Misleading The World
That Our Country Condones Torture
*You now know as a result of the recent release of what you
choose to call "The Torture Memos" that these are the 14
interrogation techniques permitted by the United States:
*Sleep deprivation...Dietary manipulation... Abdominal
slaps.. Facial slaps... Attention grasps...Facial holds...
Forced nudity..Water dousing..Stress positions not designed
to produce pain.. Cramped confinement in a dark space...
Confinement with insects such as a caterpillar... Pushing
against a wall..Wall standing...Pouring water on a person's
face to induce the feeling of drowning(waterboarding)
*As you know, waterboarding has not been used for 5 years and
was used on only 3 detainees. Our own troops are subject to
waterboarding as part of their training.
*By your continual use of the word 'Torture' to describe these
interrogation techniques you have been misleading the world
that the United States condones techniques of barbarous
cruelty. The consequences could be horrendous.
IT'S TIME FOR THE TRUTH
We are losing the goodwill of people across the world and you
are aiding al Qaida in recruiting terrorists for future
attacks on America.
Torture Truth Project
A project of Accuracy in Media, Inc.
4455 Connecticut Ave, NW, Washington, DC 20008/(202)364-4401
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/deanie_mills/2009/05/humpin-it-with-a-bulls-eye-on.php
Great article on this subject from a different perspective - the troops and the Arab world.
The Iraqis have already been humiliated by the US. The release of another batch of photos is minor compared to the losses that the Iraqi pople have sustained.
Hundreds of thousands of civilians masacred. A viable economy devastated. No school system, no health system. No hope for the future. "Yes we can" not.
I'd be much more likely to be a terrorist if my kids were blown apart by a random drone.
I'd be much more likely to be a terrorist if my father was held without reason or trial - muchless waterboarded - in Gitmo, or any of hundreds of detention centers.
I will pick up a gun when drones start flying over my house. I will pick up a gun when my kids are maimed and crippled for the oil induced avarice of Cheney and Rice.
An open and transparent process of exposing our faults and an open discussion of how to correct our errors would do more to get the world on our side.
The US will never defeat AlQueda. The Taliban will not be eliminated by US special forces.
Only the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan can eliminate terrorism and extremism. Blowing them up and holding them aginst the Geneva Conventions will not convince them to work with us.
I don't believe terrorism can ever be defeated. It can be minimized, or re-directed, but there will always be individuals for whom the norms of society are beyond tolerance.
It is lose-lose for Obama.
By not releasing --after he intended to--it appears that he is controlled and it actually serves to stir speculation of the content of these photos being even worse fueling imagination and the rumor mill. By not releasing them using Bush-speak, he not only stirs suspicion that he is hiding something worse than the photos previously released--but it reflects poorly on this country at a time when the world wonders where the hoped for change for the better went.
The USA is an imperialist nation. It has a long history (over a century now) of carrying out the most vicious state terrorism against people all around this globe. The "torture" that we've witnessed in recent years is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the evil deeds the USA is responsible for. When Americans recognize this and put a stop to it, it will be the end of an economic system that seeks global capitalist hegemony over this planet, its people and its resources. To get upset at this late stage over the release of some photos is to cover up this sad history of how the corporate elites have harmed so many many people (in the millions) to ensure their rising profits. It looks like people can't see the forest for the trees in these discussions.
The government is spending our taxpayer dollars like a drunken sailor with no accountability and you guys are distracted like a yokel at the county fair is distracted by a shiny object in a magician's hand.
The generals made me do it? Thought Obama was Commander in Chief. Do they really think releasing the photos would encourage alQaeda and the Taliban to do more than they already have been doing? They saw many of the pictures a long time ago, so how does releasing the others make a difference to them?
Where is the transparency promised by Obama? Has he forgotten everything he said on the campaign trail, or was it "promise them anything, but give them Arpege?"
At least he admitted waterboarding was torture. I'll give him that.
only a couple of people (jclientelle, esp.) noted the most important thing:
our troops *would* be endangered by the release of these photos, in danger of USAeans turning against the war(s). this is about protecting americans: protecting them from knowledge.
also, isn't the release of these photos *court-ordered*? and didn't the appeals court refuse to review the case (ie, it's not likely to make it to the supreme court)? so is obama signaling that the executive (ordered by the pentagon/NSA/et al) is going to defy the courts?
no surprise there. you know what the difference b/n a democrat & a republican is? democrats try to take away your Victory Cigarettes.
"Last week, the president met with his legal team and told them that he did not feel comfortable with the release of the D.O.D. photos because he believes their release would endanger our troops."
What endangers Obama's troops is that the as*sholes blow people up and kick down their doors and shoot their children so that their corporate masters can control the resources and markets. Trying to hide evidence this late in the game fools nobody.
The main difference between Obama and Bush is that Bush is comfortable with being evil and Obama says he is not. F*uck him and the Democrat horse he rode in on.
One is struck with how incredibly right the PUMAs turned out to be--and what incredible screw-ups progressives turn out to be.
The PUMAs--who were mostly Hillary supporters enraged at Obama's dirty primary campaign--tried to warn us that Obama was basically a neocon.
They cited tons of proof. I saw it.
But the progs were too busy stealing the nomination and calling anyone who disagreed with them racists. It was then I knew the Democrats were screwed.
Note: To avert the inevitable accusations of Obamites: I never supported Hillary, so I cannot be called a "disgruntled Hillary supporter." I voted for Cynthia McKinney, so I cannot be called a racist. I'm on the same page as Dennis Kucinich on virtually all issues, so I cannot be called a corporate or DLC Democrat.
I just know a rotten candidate when I see one. ;)
Xe Technology: We Mean Very Little Harm to your Planet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zYqMkgzOJ0
Obama is sandwiched between pressure, from both regimes,-[as they were one in the same],-- poppy Bush,& junior Bush, as to make them out looking like Saints, and keeps the wars against Arabs in full force, to please the Jews. He forgot about, We the People.
Deepa
"And in this Young People’s History that we are launching tonight at the 92nd Street Y, we have a lot of these sort of dramatic words by people who have been dissidents and resisters in history. It’s not a—we don’t present the history of victimization; we present the history of people fighting back. And we want to give—we want to give Americans a history which shows them that it’s possible to fight back, that you don’t have to depend on the President and Congress and the Supreme Court. In fact, you had better not depend on them, because they’re not going to solve the fundamental problems that we have in our society. We can only do it ourselves, when we organize, when we act, when we protest. And so, we’re trying to, yes, energize people by learning a history that is provocative and that is inspirational." -Howard Zinn
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/13/howard_zinn_i_wish_obama_would
"The president strongly believes that the release of these photos, particularly at this time, would only serve the purpose of inflaming the theaters of war, jeopardizing US forces," the official said, "and making our job more difficult in places like Iraq and Afghanistan."
Well, since they have no business being in foreign lands, and what they're doing there is immoral and criminal, they should be harmed.
And that releasing the photos serves only that purpose is a lie, and Obama knows it. The purpose of releasing them is to show the world just how immoral and criminal the U.S. and its personnel have and are behaving.
What is most dishearting is the fact that all throughout Barack Obama's campaign he played the young white and African American voters like a fine Stradivarius. Many of whom who were standing outside in the cold with lit candles, in tears at the thought of this "Change" a very charismatic and coy Barack H. Obama promised if he were elected president. "Yes we can." It was a clarion call only meant to mollify the young ears and minds of this tattered America.
If they only knew that those brilliant and eloquent speeches would amount to nothing more than empty rhetoric.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehuffingtonpost%2Ecom%2F2008%2F03%2F...
"During the court case, defense officials had fought the release of the photographs, connected with investigations between 2003 and 2006, on the grounds that the release could endanger American military personnel overseas"
Guess the pen is mightier than the sword. Too bad Mr. Obama doesn't get that concept.
Of course, our refusal to obey our own laws and prosecute torturers and murderers is a much greater incitement to terrorism than photos of abuses already widely known to have taken place, so Obama's rhetoric is an excuse and not a reason. I don't think he's really stupid, but he apparently thinks we are and, judging by most of the pundits and population, his calculations are correct.
The only path that could justify not releasing the photos would be instead to begin prosecution immediately.
IMHO, no matter how plaintively Obama may cry “Out, damn’d spot!” —- he will not be able to walk off of this tragic ‘war crimes’ stage until this most odious crime is expunged.
So for Obama, the superficially adored hero, the role of a modern Hamlet tentatively deciding whether “to be or not to be” for the war-crimes-Empire could be the last drama on this mortal coil.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
Disappointing, but then again, is it really a surprise?
All those who voted for GWB and had any integrety--knew they had been had when he would not allow Cheney to devulge the names and details of the "energy meeting" soon after he took office. I believe that with this latest flip flop from BO, the smart people who possess any integrety now realize that they too have been had at this moment in history--so they both lie and do not truely represent our will Dah!
Michael Moore has great cover story on this and quotes - hauntingly similar- on his website.
does anyone see the connection as to why dickhead cheney keeps his mug in the news, long after his two terms as war lord are over?
six weeks ago, even a month ago, who could have possibly foreseen the repulsicans gaining momentum? unbelievable that in less than four years we'll have yet another bush in the white house. cheney said so yesterday.
the freak is frightening and needs to be properly disposed of.
and barackstar, words cannot express the utter disappointment in your spineless attempt at leadership. such a waste of time and energy and money. a fucking pity.
The power stolen by Bushco for the Executive is just now beginning to be used to defy the other branches and truly demonstrate how the checks and balances no longer exist - in name or reality.
Now we can be certain that all those civil liberties lost when the Constitution was shredded by Bush will NEVER be returned.
We are a nation of wage slaves' in thrall to the MIC, the banks and the other holdings of the rich.
We are the only country that has not taken to the streets over this economic debacle.
You may want to go to Alternative Radio and check this talk out:
http://www.alternativeradio.org/programs/GUPA001.shtml
Banksta Capitalism
Arun Gupta
Arun Gupta, journalist and activist, was founding editor of The Indypendent newspaper in New York. He's a regular contributor to Alternet and Z. He also appears on Democracy Now, GRIT TV, and Al Jazeera.
"We cannot rebuild this economy on the same pile of sand," declares the president. But it seems that's what going on. Obama's treasury secretary says, "We have a financial system that is run by private shareholders, managed by private institutions, and we'd like to continue to do our best to preserve that." That's the stated policy. Now no doubt there will be some regulatory changes but loopholes will be found to avoid them. Restoration is the order of the day. The system remains in place. Ultimately, with few exceptions, the high rollers and fat cats are covered. They get their big payday and their "too big to fail" corporations and banks get bailed out. The economic crisis is a moment of great opportunity to address fundamental inequities and inequalities. Where are the imaginative ideas and the movements to push them forward?
The power stolen by Bushco for the Executive is just now beginning to be used to defy the other branches and truly demonstrate how the checks and balances no longer exist - in name or reality.
Now we can be certain that all those civil liberties lost when the Constitution was shredded by Bush will NEVER be returned.
We are a nation of wage slaves' in thrall to the MIC, the banks and the other holdings of the rich.
We are the only country that has not taken to the streets over this economic debacle.
I was excited when Obama seemed to be channelling MLK (ok a little stretch), but now he seems to be channelling W (again, a stretch); but, still SO DISAPPOINTING!
Liberals want so badly to love Obama they have given him a pass to continue the occupation in Iraq and maintain Bush-level troops there while talking about withdrawing. They've given him a pass on his giving de facto pardons to the sadists and cowards who tortured and justified torture. They've given him a pass on choosing deregulators and free-traders as his front-line economic team who allowed the financial institutions to continue using those institutions to enrich themselves at the expense of working families. And the pass goes on and on.
They're even giving justification to his making Pakistan, a country geometrically weaker than us militarily and economically, as a threat to the US, very close to portraying Pakistan as if it's giving Mullah Omar nukes to bomb Disneyland.
So now he goes back on even showing the pictures of the barbarity our sadistic, cowardly anti-American torturers and enablers of torture inflicted while committing acts that violate International and US criminal law.
Obama really is a load.
"Liberals want so badly to love Obama"
As always, conservatives caused this mess. And as always, they still have the nerve to try to tell liberals how to run things.
Deepa
It looks that Obama does not want to release the pictures, because these pictures put the leaders of Democrat Party on the spot for colluding with Bush, Cheney...in approving torture.
Regarding torturing the OTHER, both Democrats and Republicans are on the same page.
If the photos are so bad, why isn't Obama prosecuting people for war crimes?
What about justice for the victims of the torture? Not everybody caused 9/11.
If releasing the photos causes danger to our troops, doesn't the following cause danger to our troops:
- US targeting and bombing of Afghanistan and Pakistani suspected terrorists without regard to civilian life.
- Supporting Israel's clusterbombing of Lebanon and the resulting photos of limbless children.
- Supporting Israel's white phospherous bombing of civilians in Gaza.
- Supporting Israel's ethnic cleansing of East Jeruselum and the West Bank.
This isn't about protecting the troops. It is about protecting the political elite from embarrassment and prosecution.
"This isn't about protecting the troops. It is about protecting the political elite from embarrassment and prosecution."
Or, maybe from deserved vigilante justice.
Oh, it gets better! I just watched Rep. Joe Sestak on tv.
He is supposedly in favour of releasing the photos, but today (suprise!) he says he supports their suppression "temporarily"
(remember that some of these photos are already years old),...
because Obama has a "weak hand" with the Taliban "hiding" in Pakistan (Does he know that they live in Pakistan? Does he know that Pakistan also was not behind 9/11?)...
but Sestak wants the photos released "eventually" after the US gains victory in Pakistan (assuming Obama's/Bush's war hasn't moved elsewhere by then).
The "enemy" probably knows full well what went on. It is our ACTIONS that inflame sentiment abroad, not the publicity.
It is the American people who cannot know, who have to be protected from the realities.
We have to be kept in the dark, so enemies can be manufactured, atrocitities committed, deaths and mental ruin of our soldiers can be justified and billions and trillions continue to go feed that pig, the perpetual war machine.
Joe
Deepa
"America does not torture" declared Obama. If he is telling the truth, then what is the problem in releasing the pictures???
Let the pictures confirm the words of successive US presidents that "America does not torture".
Lying has become forte for the US presidents, who represent the entire country.
It isn't going to happen, but that doesn't change the fact that IT'S HIGH TIME THIS COUNTRY WOKE THE HELL UP, AND IT'S HIGH TIME THERE WAS MORE STRAIGHT UP PUBLIC ADMISSION OF THE VERY GRAVE CRISIS THIS COUNTRY FACES. AND I DON'T MEAN BLOODY FINANCIAL OR BUSINESS. THAT PROBLEM WILL PALE IN COMPARISON TO WHAT'S COMING.
'Oh dear, why do you have to be so negative? Why can't you be nice and progressive and positive? Why all the capitals? We're not angry, are we?'
Sweet Jesus H. Christ weeping in the garden. And don't get me wrong. I'm not a christian, a Christian, or a 'Christian'. I'm quite spiritual, but not religious. What I fail to get is exactly where in the name of Christ anyone thinks all this shit is going to end? I say, show the photographs, and be goddamn quick about it. Anything less IS a crime against humanity. Fuck the military. Let 'em take their chances. They've worked overtime fucking Iraqis, Afghanis, themselves, us and Christ only knows who else. Show the world the proof, and lets get the hell on with levelling the playing field. I'm sure few seriously committed progressively minded intelligent folk on this site have forgotten that the U.S. military has become a pestilential breeding ground for the radical 'Christian' fundamentalist vermin that infest the 'homeland'. THE 'HOMELAND' IS ROTTING AWAY from the goddamn 'Christian' filth (and I do not include many good decent real spiritual folks who may be Christians, Muslims, Jews, Martians or any goddamn thing who do not try to proselytize the shit out of or run the country); the sheer evil of American casino capitalism; the imbecilic jock-show of almost the entire military; the barking insanity of the incredibly criminal 'health care system'; the UNBELIEVABLE APATHY of much of the citizenry who couldn't be bothered to get off their fat asses while the Bush cabal was illegally in office and do something to stop the bullshit.
Show the fucking pictures and let's see how fucking 'manly' you really are.
as everyday passes where obama has to CLEARLY state his positions and ACT on them with his presidential authority ...the more the DISAPPOINTMENT comes with it.
first: he selects the authors of the decades-long economic style of disastercapitalism as the "guides" to "recovery"...
then tries "bipartisanship" and "consensus" by giving a seat at the table to the authors of the health-care debacles...
then DELIVERS on his previous suggestions that he prefers to ignore the EVIL of Torture that the USA has responsibility to FACE UP TO in its FULL UGLINESS.
one thing is certain -- that if Dr Martin Luther King, Jr . were alive and remained with his principles that he died for -- regardless of what EVERY OTHER american says :
Dr King would be HORRIFIED by what obama has been standing for.
they are the DIRECT OPPOSITES of what Dr King DIED FOR.
and the two names
OBAMA and DR KING should NEVER be placed together in intoning "justice, truth, liberty".
because if Dr King had once said:
:"ours is a nation of technological and economic giants but intellectual and moral MIDGETS" -- COWARDS in other words that hide behind the POWER and "strength of physical force" --
OBAMA is proving to be EXACTLY that kind of american dr king became saddened about:
a "MORAL MIDGET".
O is an Uncle Tom indeed
He gives a bad name to Uncle Tom!!!!!
racist comment deleted by author
Well, the moron you elected as president has spoken. Here are some of the things he said today, with my comments in brackets:
The unreleased torture photos are from “closed” investigations (investigations, begun under Bush, that are still secret)
…of “alleged” “abuse” of detainees (alleged, because the evidence, these photos, is still secret, and not torture because Obama, like Bush, said the US doesn’t torture).
The photos are “not particularly sensational” but the release of photos of a “small number of individuals” (as in…a few bad apples)…
will “put our troops in greater danger” (troops that are occupying Iraq because of a false link between Iraq and 9/11, extracted under torture)…and…
will have a “chilling effect” on future investigations (not that Obama plans to hold any)
BO, like so many Presidents before him is getting crappy advice and taking it. All of America's 'enemies' already know about the torture. Willingly releasing more information would show them that BO is not just another GWB. Putting your aggressive military before the lives of innocent poor people, who they kill and threaten, is just foolish.
BO is a big improvement BUT supporting American interventions in other countries means that he is not enough of an improvement.
Transparency? Guess not.
And whatever happened to that prosecution of the Israeli spies for espionage that Jane Harman was wiretapped over? Anyone going to follow up on that? Guess maybe the Alberto Gonzalez help to Jane to avoid prosecution was carried over into Holden's Justice Department?
We need an explanation!!!
"The interests of the government and the military would not be served?" Hell, I thought they worked for us. What's THEIR interests got to do with anything?
Actually they don't work for us and haven't for a long time. THEIR interests and our interests should be identical. If they are not, we are living in some governmental system other than a democracy, or even a Republic.
In whose interest is this government being operated? The God of war? The God of Greed? The God of pain? All of the above?
It's for sure not doing what I would like it to be doing.
Am I alone here? Maybe everybody else likes carnage, poverty, ignorance.
We currently seem to live in an Oligarchy, not a democratic republic.
Obama is such a disappointment. I could see it coming when he had Larry Summers and Tim Geithner as financial advisors.
Obama has been bought and paid for just like Reagun, Bush, Clinton, Bush.
So sad.
Now, no torture photos, no real health care, no anything for the people to whom the elections seem to be just bread and circuses.
US boss class to Obama: You release the evidence of US guilt and we will terminate you with extreme prejudice.
Like former Minn. Gov. Jesse Ventura told Larry King, "If torture worked, don't you think we'd have Osama Bin Laden in custody by now?"
I didn't hear Jesse say that comment, so thanks for posting.
It's certainly a succinct retort to idiots like Cheney.
Everybody, please take a breath ... and for a moment, try to imagine yourselves among the young American men and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would rather err on the side of caution to protect them from the inevitable backlash that would be caused by the release of the torture photos. I, for one, can imagine the horrors of torture without actually seeing the photos. I plan to continue to press the Obama Administration to investigate, indict and prosecute those who participated in the Bush Administration's evil torture program in any way.
Bring the troops home.
Joe
Excuse me, but Iraq is a war crime. You can support the war criminals. I will not. And I will not be complicit.
Do you live in the United States? If yes, do you pay federal income taxes? If yes, then you ARE complicit, and SO AM I. The question is, what are we going to do about it? Vote?
Guys like yourself who protect people like the President when they bomb villages with fragmentation bombs and speak for the continuing denial of atrocities continued every day -make me puke.
I don't at all care for the military mindset that you advertise...young American men and women are gleefully killing innocent people with a mechanical efficiency. Address your remarks to that, Bub.
How do you "press" the BHO administration when you carry water for their stupid policy and murderous actions? Look in the mirror Bub, it's your soul that's up for auction...There will be no trials only a free lunch for the perps. Convictions, Sentences and for some executions. Nothing else will do.
Backlash the whole lot of these bully boys right back to the USA and roll out the guillotine.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
What do the idiots who battled the cold on Jan 20 2009 and witnessed this utter criminal take office from another utter criminal have to say?
At least I was warm in my apartment enjoying the farce on TV. The best part was Aretha Franklin's ridiculous hat, as if she were was making fun of all the tragic people in front of her. The hat was just as pathetic as the clowns witnessing Obama's inauguration and hoping for "change we can believe in.'
Doesn't the same excuse apply to withholding just about any accurate information regarding any unsavory activities of the US military in foreign lands, which make up a fair percentage of the activities? It is nice to see that Obama is now apparently taking advice on propaganda from the ghost of Joseph Goebbels. I am sure Mr. Goebbels advised against releasing photos of concentration camps as it would only have served to endanger the German troops in the field.
The torture is what is causing problems for the US and for its troops in the field, not the pictures of the torture. Releasing these pictures would show to the world that the US has changed just as the new president said it would and that it is now adhering to the norms of civilized nations.
"The torture is what is causing problems for the US and for its troops in the field, not the pictures of the torture."
True enough, but Obama's side is currently winning - a majority of Americans believe that torture is at least sometimes justifiable. If they turned the page of their morning paper and saw pictures of torture, the resulting loss of appetite might tip the balance of public opinion, and that would be inconvenient for Obama.
I have to wonder who fathered his children, Jesse Jackson? It is obvious that he has no balls of his own. A gutless bastard and a real son of a bitch this President Obama. Fragmentation bombs on tiny villages. Gone back on his word a dozen times already. Meet the new boss, worse than the old boss. I guess that when he decides to use drones to control the rage the Americans feel right now it will be for the greater good of the banking and investment community.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Now, don't hold back! Tell us how you REALLY feel!
As Supercop/Mayor Frank Rizzo's campaign slogan said: Firm but Fair!
Actually, I thought, "Ouch! THAT's gonna leave a mark." I only wish I could disagree.
· Yr Obd't Servant
We voted for change and transparency. Shielding evidence of torture and their instigators fr the eyes of the citizenry is neither.
"We voted for change and transparency." No. YOU voted for the illusion of change and transparency, yet, again. And in 2010 and 2012, and..... you will do it again.
Obama has demonstrated that the criminal system to which he pledged himself at his inauguration is irreformable. Our wealth & power are grounded in the centuries of slavery, confirmed in the abrogation of treaties & subsequent demoralization & dehumanization of our concentration camp/resrevation 'detainees'; further confirmed by the assault on Vietnam (not to mention the many less publicized wars) 7 currently by the occupation of Iraq & the attempted occupation of Afghanistan.
Let's have no nonsense about third parties & saving a Constitution which the rightwing has no intention of abiding by, any more than the other wing of the Propertarian party has.
"That is why the Department of Defense investigated these cases, and why individuals have been punished through prison sentences, discharges, and a range of other punitive measures."
So the Obama Administration has adopted the "Few Bad Apples" routine....everyone gets a pass except the poor grunts who carried out the illegal orders from above
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
"The president would be the last to excuse the actions depicted in these photos," the administration official said.
not the last...just the latest
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Mr. Obama advised his top military commanders about his decision in a meeting on Tuesday at the White House. Several military officials had argued against the immediate release of the photographs, saying such action could harm American troops in the field.
So, according to these military officials and Brock Alabama himself, the truth and some photographs are more lethal than bullets and bombs.
And now the new narrative:
Obama talks large, delivers little.
--It probably has something to do with all the lobbyists he employs.
Dear President Obama:
Our country's refusal to prosecute high level officials who gave the orders to torture (and their legal advisers) is what will enflame fighting In Afghanistan.
Releasing the photos in conjunction with an aggressive independent investigation, and prosecution, if merited, can only help to ease tensions in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Showing the Arab world that the United States embraces the truth, even when embarrassing, along with justice that applies to all citizens, will go a long way to winning their hearts and minds.
The thought that you don't understand this simple concept is quite frightening.
Sincerely, CX-1
The people of the Middle East have seen photos and reality that are far worse than these. The government doesn't want the people of the United States to see, in full color, what has been done in our name. They're afraid people might finally wake up and demand an end to the continued madness and brutality. I only wish it were true.
This is yet another example of how easily Obama is controlled by the MIC and shadow government. He fooled voters with his smooth rhetoric, and proves yet again how he is really no different than George W. Bush, except for the fact that he can put a sentence together (of course taking out all of the "uhs" and "gonnas"). Obama is a fraud, plain and simple. It is time to begin hitting the drum for impeachment.
I guess this nails it. We already knew he was a bastard and now we know he is a slimy crudball as well. I wonder how the stinkin' little prick explains this to his daughters?
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Republicrats. Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee. On torture, Bush and Obama are one and the same. For shame.
I'm reminded of Nixon's "secret" bombing of Cambodia. Obviously the Cambodians had to be aware of it, so (rhetorical question alert) from whom was it "secret" and why?
Congratulations, Democratic voters, you won!
Now, speaking to those of you who want to take back your government from the criminals. Perhaps you can take a page from the single payer activists disrupting the Bauchus hearings.
The Doctors and Nurses that are getting heard and then thrown out, seem to be on to something. Perhaps lawyers will have to resort to a similar tactic to make an impact on this torture issue.
I voted for Obama and had hope, I'm losing it at a speed-of-light clip.
I did not expect any potus to carry the torch for Revolution. But I thought after the bush/cheney rape BO would do some good things for this country.
Was I 100% wrong?
as soon as it was let out that zbig and albright were his foreign policy advisers. the cat was out of the bag.
as soon as it was let out that zbig and albright were his foreign policy advisers. the cat was out of the bag.
You had good intentions, which is important. But it's essential to be skeptical of those at the top in Washington, D.C. As the Russians say, "shit floats".
John Mitchell, thanks for letting me off lightly.
At this point I'm waiting to hear about John Yoo's Supreme Court appointment.
Dang, Shucks & Worse, Joe.
ENDANGER THE TROOPS?? What about dropping white PHOSPHOROUS on civilian Arab Populations?? Think that might stoke the fires of HATRED for americans?
Arab populatons know about it. It is the residents of the world's leading democracy who cannot know, who cannot see, who cannot be allowed to fact facts.
Joe
IMAGINE living in a world where people don't elect a class of "Leaders" who think they are so superior that they can handle the free exchange of information within their secret cabals - but the "sheeple" can not.
And if the information in the photos endangers American troops - that would indicate that the world really has a good reason to hate American Imperialism, and the criminal activity that goes with it.
I wonder what was on those videos. Oh yeah, our Public Servants in the CIA destroyed the evidence.
Another day, another crime...
The only way to ensure the American troops 'safety', and who treats them 'how'---is in reality in the hands of the American troops themselves.
If each of them, from General "Smith"---all the way down to Pvt "Jones"----make the decision to no longer participate in an illegal war(s) of aggression; pack their duffel bags ---sea bags---suit cases---(whatever) and start "walking" back home if they cannot get a "lift"----that statement alone would make the world see that the USA can be an honorable Nation----and not a Rogue Nation------------
Other wise, without each member of the armed forces deciding for themselves no to participate----they are in great danger, and would be if they were the "invaders" of any other country---including the USA............
Good Luck America, you really need it.
Step 1: Darth Cheney speaks of irresponsibility in releasing the photos.
Step 2: Darth sends his military minions like Petraeus in to waterboard Obama. Obama spokesman admits how damaging the photos would be to the troops.
Step 3: Obama trys to stop the release of torture photos.
Step 4: Obama removes his full body diguise to reveal himself to be Jeb Bush.
These people are idiots. The entire world knows what we did including the entire population of South Asia. We can't release the photos to protect the troops from retribution.
So,killing women and babies with massive airstikes is winning hearts and minds. And what about Bagram? What about getting the hell out of the entire region?
THAT is out of the question.
HEY OBAMA, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!
"HEY OBAMA, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!"
He will try; after all, he is from the Party of Flip-Flops.
The appointment of McChrystal and the decision to withhold the additional torture pictures should assure everyone we are right back where we started.
When McChrystal was asked if they could be prosecuted he assured his men the Red Cross would not be allowed in. "they won't have access and they never will. This facility was completely closed off to anybody investigating, even Army investigators." ...
President Obama is making the same choices as Dick Cheney. Interesting????
I suppose it's tied in with not prosecuting anyone for torture or holding anyone accountable for war crimes,as well as continuing war crimes. Just another fascist and another day in the empire.
Well, let's see now. There are memos galore between our various upper echelons including the president and vice president approving torture and ordering or allowing the grunts in the field to do it.
When the grunts were photographed torturing, they were singled out as a handful of rogues performing the equivalent of "Fraternity hazing" on the prisoners.
The grunts were tried and imprisoned for various times.
More memos passed between the president, the military, Cheney, Rumsfield, et al. The torture and renditions continued, but more quietly.
The current president, Mr. Obama, said he would close Gitmo and bring the torture to an end.
Now, on second hought, we are back to military commissions, for the normal courts wouldn't allow self incrimination due to torture, and would insist on the evidence being presented with the opportunity to cross examine the accusers.
Now, Mr Obama hs stated that the actual torturers should not be tried because they were "just following the orders of their superiors," a defense that was ruled out at Nuremberg.
He says those who ordered the torturing are exempt from trial because they did not torture in person, but just gave the orders. This, too, was ruled out at Nuremberg.
Another reason stated by Mr. Obama is that bringing military people to trial might inhibit their following orders in the future! What orders might be brought to trial? More torture? More devastation of villages full of civilians, women and children?
Even the UCMJ states that an enlisted man, or officer, has a right and obligation to refuse an illegal or immoral order.
Since Nuremberg and the Nuremberg Principles have apparently been thrown in the dustbin by our government, I suppose the next step is to give each of them an Iron Cross.
Now, the photos that were so proudly taken are not to be shown to the sanitized American People, for fear we might look askance at what is done in our name, and incidentally, that those occupied by us may find out what we do, as if they didn't know already, at first hand.
The entire government has been guilty of violations of the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" and the "Nuremberg Principles." The entire government is guilty of war crimes as defined in the two documents. Mr. Obama has continued to escalate these crimes, widened the wars, left the door open to torture and detention without trial, and is determined to protect any torturer or those who authorized or ordered it from trial, so he has joined the ranks of the war criminals.
Unfortunately, as the Obama government is the one tasked to investigate the crimes they are involved in, this whole thing is just a very sad farce. There will be no justice, no punishment. The war criminals will walk and keep their stolen money.
We the People will suffer the results as the empire rots from within.
"so he has joined the ranks of the war criminals."
I thought he did that years ago when he first voted in the Senate to provide funds for the continuing occupation of Iraq. The Senate and the House are filled with war criminals. I'd say it's likely the entire Senate and all of the House except for maybe Kucinich and Ron Paul joined the ranks of the war criminal class the first time they voted to invade Iraq or continuing to fund the occupation.
G. W. Obama strikes again.
After the world has good idea of the horror of USA torture, by not letting the world see it only makes it even worse.
So now everyone still knows the facts but now it is joined to the fact that Obama is aiding the crimes by hiding evidence and will now be complicit in the War crimes.
There are no secrets anymore... only truth, lies and coverups.
And the coverups are always worse than the crimes.
Welcome to the Iron Cross Mr. Obama. So much for your transparency and rule of law.
"Odierno and McKiernan and Petraeus have all voiced real concern about this," said Geoff Morrell, the Pentagon press secretary. "Particularly in Afghanistan, this is the last thing they need."
Why does the Pentagon think that a few disturbing photos are more problematic than killing civilians in indiscreet bombing runs or worse, using un-manned drones.
The stated positions of the Obama administration on this topic are almost identical to the Bush administration as if Obama were channeling Cheney. They are related after all...
I am amazed that Jessie Ventura has a better grasp of constitutional law than Obama (see recent interview with Larry King).
I know of no other word to describe Obama's desire to sweep the issue of torture under the rug than COWARD. Wait, yes I do TREASON!
If they're so 'concerned' then maybe they shouldn't have done it in the first place! The military - of all people - knew better. They knew they were putting themselves at risk with this insanity - after all everyone knows about the SERE program - and how it was really used. Jesse spoke the truth - because he's been through it. Well I KNOW people who 'died' during SERE - as Jesse hinted - and the 'death' is REAL even if you can resusitate them afterwards (which is what happened to someone I know).
People truly concerned about 'how this will look' are already depraved - what about the morality of torture, which is used only to terrorize people. It isn't about 'information' - it never was and never can be, because it IS TORTURE !! Why is this so hard to understand? Do really that many people still think RAPE is about sex, and women who dress a certain way (such as those who don't wear a burka) are just 'asking for it' - as a Wisconsin judge recently claimed? GET REAL !!!