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Today's Top News
Attacks Are Inhuman, Peace Activists Tell Olmert, Barak
Despite graphic images of the carnage in Gaza being shown around Israel and the high number of Palestinian casualties, public support for the war remains high.
Israeli left-wing activists protest outside President Shimon Peres' residence in Jerusalem. Israel's offensive against Hamas in the Gaza Strip has caused unprecedented suffering to civilian residents of the Palestinian territory, local human rights groups said on Wednesday. (AFP/Gali Tibbon) A poll commissioned by the liberal daily newspaper Haaretz yesterday found 82 per cent of people surveyed believe that Israel has not gone too far with its use of military force during Operation Cast Lead in Gaza.
The war in Gaza also appears to have gone some way towards rebuilding public confidence in the military following the perceived failures of Israel's 2006 war in Lebanon, with 78 per cent of people judging the war a success.
But not all Israelis are in favour of the war.
On Wednesday a coalition of nine Israeli human rights groups convened to urge an immediate halt to the fighting in the Gaza Strip which they said was on the verge of a humanitarian catastrophe.
In an open letter to the Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert. and the Defence Minister, Ehud Barak, the groups said a commission of inquiry would be needed after the conflict ended to investigate alleged Israeli war crimes.
Michael Sfard, a lawyer with the Israeli human rights group Yesh Din that was a part of Wednesday's press conference, told the Herald it was time Israelis looked into the mirror.
"I think we have become so used to violence that when the sort of things that are happening in Gaza are shown, people don't care any more," Mr Sfard said.
"Several years ago, the killing of 15 Hamas militants by the IDF [Israel Defence Forces] caused a major moral revision here within Israel.
"Now [there have been] 1000 people killed in Gaza, many of them children, and there is very little national debate about whether this is right or wrong."
The groups, which also included Amnesty International, B'Tselem, Gisha, and Physicians for Human Rights, also presented six cases in which they say IDF troops fired on medical personnel, killing 12 people.
They said there have been 15 hits on medical facilities during the conflict, including clinics and medical storage facilities.
"I care about humanity, and what is happening here is inhuman," said Professor Zvi Bentwich, the head of the Centre for Tropical Diseases and AIDS at Ben Gurion University.
"There is no sense whatsoever of proportionality, it's a dreadful and callous disregard for human life," Professor Bentwich said.
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Show AllOf course the Attacks Are Inhuman. Why else do you think America gave the Israelis an overwhelming surplus of killing devices? Surely not to make peace!
The US has provided Israel with those devices so they may defend themselves. Do not forget the neighboring Arab nations have a particular fondness of attacking Israel. While this current fighting most assuredly to stop but don't mistake the need for Israel's defense.
Yes, I agree. Israel will not be safe until every Arab is scoured from the Earth.
Of course the Arab isn't entitled to defend themselves--that would be terrorism.
Oh Vern,
You seem to be a bit uniformed so I will give you a quick refresher course on the history of the Middle East(I surely don't consider myself an expert but it seems i at least have a grasp of the history)
So by UN decree the territory formerly known as the British Mandate Area is to be partitioned with Israel being formed out of about 55% of the land and Palestine being formed out of the remainder 45% of the land. The reason Israel received a bigger portion was b/c they were being given land that was roughly 70% desert.
About 4 months after the UN resolution creating Israel the Arab nations of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq invaded Israel. This is know as the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. About 1% of the entire Israeli population was killed in this conflict.
The nations of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan tried it again in 1967, when they launched the Six Day War. They expelled the UN peace keepers before the conflict began by the way.
The worst of all occurred in 1973, the Yom Kippur War, where Egypt and Syria launched a surprise attack on Israel on the holiest day in the Jewish religion. In 3 weeks Israel suffered per capita the same amount out losses as the US suffered in the entire Vietnam War.
These are the reasons the US, Germany, and France supply Israel with military supplies. I think the case for it is quite clear...
The UN partitioned an entire nation AGAINST the will of its people. The Palestinians had NO REASON to accept a UN resolution which divided their country and gave large swathes of land populated by Arab people to Jewish control. Just as Americans have no reason to respect a UN resolution that would divide America into white, Asian, African American and Hispanic areas.
When Israel declared independence, Arab armies invaded immediately. This occurred AFTER Zionist forces had already started the mass ethnic cleansing of Arab lands and the nakba - the mass exodus of Arab civilians had already begun.
The worst of Zionist massacres against the indigenous Arab population had already occurred - Deir Yassin in April 1948 - a whole month prior to the Israeli declaration of independence. So the Arab attack on the embryonic Israeli state was PRECEDED by the mass exodus of Arab civilians. So in this light, the Arab states cannot be accused realistically of starting the war when the ethnic cleasing of historic Palestine had already begun.
Most of the fighting in the war of Israeli independence occurred in the land the Arab were to have owned anyway as per the UN partition plan. Just as in the Yom Kippur war the Israelis were attacked in the Sinai, the Golan, the West Bank which according to international resolutions they should have left years ago.
So that leaves only one war actually started by the Arabs - the 1973 war, which in any case was fought over territory that under international law did not even belong to Israel.
The Entire Ottoman Empire was partitioned following the first World War. Transjordan, Turkey, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon all originated from the carving up of the Ottoman Empire-are all those nations illegitimate as well? The Palestinian territory was split once into Palestine and Transjordan. A promise in the Balfour Declaration then split Palestine into two again. The British were unable to carry out the second partition b/c of a rise in violence on both sides-you failed to mention the Arab revolt of 1920 in your comment. Britain handed control of the Mandate Area over to the UN.
The UN did force partition on the Palestinian people but the land wasn't the Palestinians but rather it was UN territory. In the US the Palestinians would qualify for the tile of squatters.
The Deir Yassin massacre is a terrible event, though you failed to mention that it occurred during a period of civil war in Palestine, but we don't indict an entire nation on the acts of a few individuals. By the way there are numerous cases of Arabs massacring Jews-sadly each side has committed terrible crimes in this conflict.
Your remark about the Palestinians having a problem with the mandate is understandable but 3/4 of the world spoke and declared that the land of Palestine, a land that has switched hands more times than any other land in history, be split between the Jews and the Arabs.
The Arabs then took to war..and lost...repeatedly.
You do a good job at trying to belittle the grave nature of the 73 war. A surprise attack on the holiest Jewish holiday...what cowards the Arab armies were. The UN came down pretty forcefully on the Arab parties for that aggression.
The Western powers had NO RIGHT to partition the Middle East against the wishes of its people. The nations of the Middle East are ALL made up of their indiginous populations, with the exception of Israel which was founded by SETTLERS.
At the time of the UN Partition the land of Palestine - 80-90 percent of it was owned by Arabs - the UN did not own the land any more than it owns America.
Deir Yassin was more than a cold blooded massacre - it was a watershed event that laid the groundwork for the mass ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Arab population. It was not an isolated incident but a well calculated ploy to force Arabs out. The future Prime Minister of Israel had this to say - as in Deir Yassin, so everywhere. You are welcome to refer to this link -
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/july01/0107070.html
If 3/4 of the world spoke and said America had to be divided between white, black and Hispanic areas, then most Americans would rightly reject it. Just as the Palestinians did, which was their right. Also, remember the ``world'' at that time was dominated by the Western powers - most of the new independent states of the developing world were not in the UN at that time. Now that developing nations have a greater voice at the UN the Zionists and neocons just love to hate it.
The Arab attack on the superior Israeli military in 1973 may be many things. I do not believe it was cowardly as the Arabs were much weaker. Anyway most of the fighting occurred in lands Israel was illegally occupying ( and still is ) so Israel's existence was never under any particular threat
Today the news reported that Venezuela and Bolivia have just cut off diplomatio relations and have severed ties with israel. Even the US is cutting $1bn in loans to israel over west bank settlements. Greek citizens have forced the Greek government to delay a US arms shipment from Astakos to the Israel’s Ashdod because of protest.
And as another expample of Israel humanitarian perfidy was the blockade Wednesday by the israeli navy of two humanitarian aid vessels heading into Gaza; one sponsored by the US-based Free Gaza Movement and an Iranian ship on a similar humanitarian misson.
Israhell is committing suicide and I hope it's a slow and painful death.
You think what has happened thus far in Gaza is barbaric? You ain't seen nothing yet.
Why is Israel acting in this way? Who or what is it modeling itself on?
I have a view, a controversial view. Am I right?
www.dangerouscreation.com
It is strange how when Israel or the US aggresively bomb and invade other nations it is called "defending themselves."
rumiluv:Isn't that the "Bush Doctrine"?
This article shows that there are good Israeli citizens who believe in human rights and abhor atrocities no matter who commits them.
Why is it so easy to get human beings to hate? And other human beings to stand by? And why? Silly human greed!
Israeli propaganda aside, just looking at their actions over several dacades, how is it that the Israelis differ from the Serbs, who, after committing atrocities in their ethnic cleansing efforts to acquire territory illegitimately, had to be bombed by Nato? As many Jews recognize, the Israelis have set a loathsome example of naked barbarism, wiping out any special consideration they might formerly have merited as sufferers from the Nazi holocaust. When, in turn, naked barbarism is visited upon them (and their sponsors, the US Government), what will any moralist be able to say on their behalf?
you are the opposite of CODEPINK. Governments "do" and "naked barbarism is visited upon them (and their sponsors, the US Government)",but no, on people. "Serbs...had to be bombed by NATO":that's something else. You left the identical comment in about 3 places....
Israel and the neoCONS have shown the people of the Middle East, that if you don't want to end up like Palestine or Iraq, you had better get some nuclear bombs. And you Zionists, you have just killed your country no matter how much you try to stop it someone will bring a suit case nuclear bomb to Tel Aviv and sorry to say most of the world will say it's about time.
Steelgrey missed out some important little details.
The zionist project started in the 1880s.
Some European jews decided that they would create a jewish state. They chose Palestine because in the Bible it says there was a jewish kingdom there for 70 or 400 years. Whatever the case--the Torah acknowledges that there were people there before Moses led them in the Exodus(the belief that jews were enslaved in Egypt is historically disputed).
In 1900 lots of arabs lived there.
The main problem with the zionists was that they wanted to have land that could only be traded with other jews--thus discriminating against non jews.
Even jews living in palestine were upset by what the zionists were doing.
Also, Steelgrey should read what Gandhi said about it.
He was asked by zionists to endorse the project but he agreed with the arabs. He said the jews were using naked terrorism.
If you check the record--the founders of Israel were making land grabs even before they declared a state.
All the wars were started by Israel except the 73.
I think what this article highlights is the complete disregard Israel has for non jews. It doesnt care how many it maims and kills. It did the same in Lebanon. It didnt even care that it poisoned the ocean.
And as we see-it bombs UN shelters with white phosphorous.
I also heard Israeli jews were sitting on hills overlooking Gaza to enjoy the spectacle
No word yet on whether they had children write message son bombs like they did in the 06 war.
.
Yes the Jews of the world began raising the issue of an Israeli nation in 1880 i don't see how that is a crime? By the way it wasn't some much a creation of the Nation of Israel but rather the return of the Nation of Israel. In any case there is nothing wrong with a people aspiring to have a home land.
Those same type of discriminating policies where found in nearly all the Arab nations of the day as well, in fact less than 60 years ago Germany had the same kind of policy targeted at Jews. When the Arab nations stop discriminating come back and point out Israel's inequalities.
Hamas should read about Gandhi's ideas about violence and peaceful revolts.
Actually, the six day war was also started by Arabs, according to international law once the Arab navy's block aided the Israeli port they committed an act of war. Thus Israel was responding to aggression rather than beginning it.
Phosphorous weapons are permitted according to int'l law for the purpose of illumination and the Int'l Red Cross has just stated that Israel was using them for the purpose of light not as a weapon.
People have always thought of wars and battles as spectator events. During the American Revolutionary War and Civil War bleachers would be set up on some battle fields to watch the fighting.
Many nations have put little messages on bombs, the US put a message a bomb every time we bombed Japan in WWII.
Lest we wax too self righteous, let's remember how popular the Iraq war was at its inception and how little outrage greeted the documentation of widespread, systematic war crimes ordered by the President himself. Let's recall that the majority of Americans heartily approve of what the Israelis are doing with the arms we supply.
Alex
Steelgrey, the Jews of the world raising the issue of an Israeli nation in 1880 were just another European population group falling for the false idol of ethnic nationalism that led that contintent to the barbarities of WWI and WWII. Enlightened minds have realized the folly of this ideology in all its forms, and fortunately, in Europe at least, its fundamental premises have been discredited for much of the population except the right-wing fringes, which, alas, have been growing of late. In Israel, on the other hand, this ideology is very solidly in the mainstream; indeed, it is the bedrock of the Zionist enterprise, which is thus an outdated anomaly on the world stage. And it is, I'm sorry to say, implicit in every silly talking-point you spew forth on these CD threads. That you can waste your energies trying to rationalize and justify wanton slaughter is simply staggering. Do you get paid for this, or is it a 'moral' choice made in the murky depths of your paltry self?
Nationalism in and of it's self is no crime. Now when left unguarded it can quickly become an ethnocentric ideologue. Across the globe it seems that innocent Nationalism is corrupted by persons who seek to blame others for their fate. In Germany for instance a rise in Neo-Nazi groups is occurring in areas of high poverty. I would like to point out that Neo-Nazi's don't just target Jews but Blacks and pretty much all immigrants. Nationalism is much like Religion, it is rather harmless but it is being repeatedly hijacked and bastardized.
How is the 1880 Zionist movement and different from todays PLO movement? Do not both seek an ethnic state for their people?
I'm not rationalizing history but rather just stating facts. The Wanton slaughter of today is terrible and the death toll is much too high. I'm pained that both sides have refused a ceasefire. Has Israel gone to far...i believe so but i cannot ignore Hamas's instigation in this conflict. For 5 days Israel asked them to stop the rockets...that cannot be ignored. The guilt for 1,000 dead Palestinians is split evenly between Hamas and the IDF.
You had made an intelligent and thought provoking comment until that last sentence. You belittle yourself when you accuse someone who doesn't agree with you of being a paid propagandists. I am and educated American who can look beyond just the numbers and see what stimulated the fighting. Again i'll say no rockets no war.
The PLO were secular in nature and certainly did not seek to exclude others not of the Muslim religion, or even non-Arabs (such as Druse and Bedouins, or even Jews, to my knowledge) from possessing equal rights in their state, which of course never materialized anyway, since Israel torpedoed it at every opportunity and probably assassinated Arafat (cf. Uri Avnery and others), though he was by then largely ineffectual. I'm glad you brought up the PLO, however, since it helps to highlight the fact that Israel's nineteenth-century style nationalism has the added retrograde dimension of being religiously exclusive. As for your crocodile tears over the 1000 Palestinians dead, please spare me the hypocrisy, as I'm not the least bit convinced. You know bloody well that the slaughter has nothing to do with those silly rockets and everything to do with the slow strangulation and murder of the people who had the misfortune to be living in the land where the Jews of Europe wanted to create their fairy-tale homeland. As for the last sentence in my previous post, you forget that my questioned was two-pronged. Having denied that you are in the pay of Zionist interests in your tired repetition of official Israeli talking points, you would seem then to be admitting the second option, that you acceptance and justification of the wanton slaughter is "a 'moral' choice made in the murky depths of your paltry self."
I didn't know you believed that non-secular movements were inherently bad.
As far as the nature of the PLO i only need to refer you to Yasser Arafat himself, "We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion... We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem." -Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the PLO.
I think what torpedoed the PLO and subsequently the Palestinian State were the terrorist acts:
~Avivim School Bus Massacre
~Air plane hijackings
~The Dawson's Field hijacking-PLO forces seperated the Jews form the other hostages by the way
~The Black September incident in Jordan
~Ma'alot Massacre-those were children the PLO killed
The list is much longer but i think this is enough examples to show that the PLO used ever opportunity they had to kill Israeli's rather than seek a Palestinian State.
Who are you to disregard the Hamas missile attacks?
You are you to determine when Israel is allowed to respond to acts of aggression?
You do know that Israel had to build a hospital underground in Southern Israel b/c the old hospital was being hit by so many rockets fired by Hamas?
Those silly rockets would be killing many Israeli's if it weren't for the fact that Israeli's have built bomb shelters in nearly all the houses in Southern Israel.
Do you want to see the images of Israeli schools with rockets holes in the class room ceilings?
You can hold me in whatever opinion you wish for that is your right but what isn't your right is to say that a Israeli should just let Hamas fire all the rockets is wants. I can't believe your of the opinion that Hamas is right to launch rockets at Israel civilians...
What type of convoluted morality do you possess?
Your comments are so full of lies and distortions that they are unworthy of comment. Your purpose in commenting on these threads is to distract people from the main points of discussion, and I won't allow you to do so any longer, not with me, anyway. Go to your paymasters, spiritual or material or both. They are calling you.
Lies, what Lies?!?
I used a direct quote said by Arafat. I listed several cases of PLO acts of terrorism. These aren't opinions or speculations but rather EMPIRICAL FACTS.
I'm sorry you can't marshal a defense against my comment but that is a sign of your intellectual shortcomings you do not help your self by taking the cowards resort and running away.
I find it hysterical that whenever i make a rational and detailed argument people have a tendency to make the allegation that i must be an Israeli Intelligence agent!
I think you'd same face if you were to just say you are unable to offer a rebuttal.
Nobody is calling me out but i am calling you out, you can't handle it when someone challenges your convictions. You have to run away or else you might start agreeing with me...can't have that.
In case you're still reading this thread, the fact that you write in broken English also seems to point to foreign nationality, not necessarily Israeli, though you do nothing but spout their government's talking points, so you're certainly a Zionist.
But listen, I don't need to debate with you, because to get your point of view, all I need to do is read the paper and see what Jackboot Jezebel Livni has just said!
I know i'm not following MLA format but i'm writing a blog not a research paper.
You still can't point out anything i said that was wrong can you?
I don't need your excuses as to why you can't make a rebuttal...
While some may think this a crackpot scheme, I think it time that peace-loving people around the world pool their financial and intellectual resources to create a media event that awards an "International War Prize" to the most odious warmonger of the year. The prize should be awarded in Hiroshima on the date of dropping the atom bomb. Someone like President Jimmy Carter might make an ideal keynote speaker, and the monetary prize should work to undo the evil perpetrated by the prize recipient. Toward that end, I nominate Israeli Minister Tzipi ("There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza") Livni, so that her name may be forever recorded and remembered for her inhumanity to her fellow man.
(Marshall McLuhan said, "The media is the message." In this case, the media is the massage the conscience of world needs to renew itself.)
Let's find a way to communicate with one another to pursue this idea further.
Don't forget that the Founding Fathers of the latest incarnation of the State of Israel got their start bombing British school buses in Palestine right after WW-II.
The Western powers had NO RIGHT to partition the Middle East against the wishes of its people. The nations of the Middle East are ALL made up of their indiginous populations, with the exception of Israel which was founded by SETTLERS.
At the time of the UN Partition the land of Palestine - 80-90 percent of it was owned by Arabs - the UN did not own the land any more than it owns America.
Deir Yassin was more than a cold blooded massacre - it was a watershed event that laid the groundwork for the mass ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Arab population. It was not an isolated incident but a well calculated ploy to force Arabs out. The future Prime Minister of Israel had this to say - as in Deir Yassin, so everywhere. You are welcome to refer to this link -
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/july01/0107070.html
If 3/4 of the world spoke and said America had to be divided between white, black and Hispanic areas, then most Americans would rightly reject it. Just as the Palestinians did, which was their right. Also, remember the ``world'' at that time was dominated by the Western powers - most of the new independent states of the developing world were not in the UN at that time. Now that developing nations have a greater voice at the UN the Zionists and neocons just love to hate it.
The Arab attack on the superior Israeli military in 1973 may be many things. I do not believe it was cowardly as the Arabs were much weaker. Anyway most of the fighting occurred in lands Israel was illegally occupying ( and still is ) so Israel's existence was never under any particular threat.
Actually, the committe of the UN that proposed the final partition plan was intentionally constructed of weaker nations so that the big 4 powers of the world didn't have input. Canada, Peru, Guatemala, Czechoslovakia, Uruguay, Sweden, and the Netherlands voted to partition Palestine while Iran, India, and Yugoslavia voted for a single federated nation (half Jewish and half Arab, and Australia abstained.
The UN didn't own the land but they were the trustee. Britain ruled Palestine following the fall of the Ottoman Empire. As a ruling power the UN did have a right to divide the territory.
Deir Yassin was a horrific crime but as i've stated each side was trading horrific acts.
Israel still needs to compensate the Palestinians who lost their homes and property but the formation of Israel is binding. It was a dark chapter in history i'll give you that but don't forget that originally the plan was for Palestine to be a single nation but the Palestinians were against even the idea of Jewish immigration so the UN had no choice but to partition the land.
Britain considered shipping the Jewish population of Europe to Uganda, Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) and Argentina. The point is that the Jewish question of Europe should have been solved in Europe through legislation that restored them in terms of property and possessions in Europe instead of exporting the problem which derived from Eurpean racism to Palestine. The UN (the big five) had no right to partition the countries of other people, just as Britain had no right to colonise other people... The problem in the world remainds the arrogant, racist white western master discourse that dominates global thinking!
Nobody can deny the still going problems in the world today that were caused by Western interventions. But if we were to try and undo what the Western powers did to the world you understand that almost the entire Middle East would need to be redrawn.
I understand the finger pointing that is directed at the West but i don't understand how only Israel needs to be undone. If you oppose the Partitioning that the West did in the Mid East than the nations of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Turkey are just as illegitimate as Israel.
The vote for partitioning wasn't made by the security council but rather by the general assembly.
As the thinking of the world went back following WWII the Europeans were the owners of the Middle East.
I'm not trying to excuse the actions made back then but i don't understand how people can today demand that the UN partition by reversed. What will the world do with all the Israeli's of today that were born in Israel?
This whole situation is a mess on proportions never experienced before.
What can be done other than to create two separate states?
"Despite graphic images of the carnage in Gaza being shown around Israel and the high number of Palestinian casualties, public support for the war remains high.
Israeli left-wing activists protest outside President Shimon Peres' residence in Jerusalem. Israel's offensive against Hamas in the Gaza Strip has caused unprecedented suffering to civilian residents of the Palestinian territory, local human rights groups said on Wednesday. (AFP/Gali Tibbon)A poll commissioned by the liberal daily newspaper Haaretz yesterday found 82 per cent of people surveyed believe that Israel has not gone too far with its use of military force during Operation Cast Lead in Gaza."
I cannot believe that we are being fed this rubbish! Public consent was also highly in support of the Government in Germany while Hitler slaughtered the European Jewish population! Did this fact legitimize the Holocaust? The Washington Consensus media moguls who control information on our planet must thoink that we are completely stupid! What is happening in Gaza is a crime whether the Israeli public supports it or not! Perhaps we should hold them collectively responsible for this crime given their support for it we should consider them accessories to the crime!