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Obama Not Looking Back on Torture
Barack Obama suggested he's not likely to actively pursue criminal charges against national security officials who were directly involved in unlawful interrogations or wire-tapping, and said it would be difficult to quickly close down Guantanamo Bay.
On the question of prosecuting crimes that may have been committed during the Bush presidency in the course of the war on terror, Obama continued the theme of "looking forward as opposed to backwards" he took on the campaign trail and reaffirmed since winning the presidency last November. (Image: ABC News) On Guantanamo — which he repeatedly promised to shutter during the
campaign — Obama, in an interview on Sunday with George Stephanopolous
on ABC's "This Week," reiterated his intent to do just that but also
sounded a pragmatic note.
"That's a challenge," the president-elect said about the prospect of
closing down to the detainee facility within the first 100 days of
taking office. "I think it's going to take some time and our legal
teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus
as we speak to help design exactly what we need to do.
On the question of prosecuting crimes that may have been committed
during the Bush presidency in the course of the war on terror, Obama
continued the theme of "looking forward as opposed to backwards" he
took on the campaign trail and reaffirmed since winning the presidency
last November.
While aimed at attracting consensus from a broader electorate, the
position is not exactly what many in the liberal base of his party
would prefer.
As Stephanopolous noted, the most asked question on Obama's own
transition website relates to investigating the "crimes" of the Bush
administration.
Asked if he would appoint a special prosecutor to investigate such
matters as warrant-less wire-tapping and torture, Obama demurred.
"We're still evaluating how we're going to approach the whole issue of
interrogations, detentions, and so forth," he said. "And obviously
we're going to be looking at past practices and I don't believe that
anybody is above the law.
"On the other hand I also have a belief that we need to look forward as
opposed to looking backwards. And part of my job is to make sure that
for example at the CIA, you've got extraordinarily talented people who
are working very hard to keep Americans safe. I don't want them to
suddenly feel like they've got to spend all their time looking over
their shoulders and lawyering."
Pressed, Obama said twice more that he wanted to get "things right in
the future, as opposed looking at what we got wrong in the past."
Asked specifically about the idea of a "9/11 commission with
Independence subpoena power" to look at torture and warrantless
wiretapping during the Bush years, Obama said that "We have not made
final decisions, but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make
sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing. That doesn't
mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above
the law. But my orientation's going to be to move forward."
Obama also reiterated his desire for a "new approach" to Iran —
something he frequently mentioned during the Democratic primary—but was
quick to add a stick to go with the carrot.
Asked if U.S. relations with Tehran would include a "new emphasis on
respect," Obama replied: "Well, I think a new emphasis on respect and a
new emphasis on being willing to talk, but also a clarity about what
our bottom lines are."
- Posted in
99 Comments so far
Show AllIs anyone really surprised that Obama is backing down on his campaign promises? Will that's what you get for voting another dem. into office. I can only hope that the lesson has been learned this time.
The lesson for me has been:
We are the future of our country and we need to unite to have the power to get peace justice and a sustainable healthy economy.
In 4 years from now if it is Nader and the 17 or more other independent 3rd party replacements saying the same things over and over: "I told you So", it will be daja vu all over again.
The problem would be the same with any other party in the presidency.... As long as we think don't vote Dem or Republican or any party we are playing the game the way it is set up...collectivism for the wealthy and powerful.
I don't think Obama is saying he won't ignore past injustice...he is saying we have to look forward more than back....
Of course you would not believe him if he said we will spend all our time and energy in prosecuting all the crimes of the Bush presidency.... you wouldn't believe that would you?
Would it even be a successful way to lead the country out of our hole? I am not so sure.
If we just get a little justice it will be something... been down so long it looks like up ... I am not expecting Obama to solve all our problems and we have got to do more... I am sure of that... we need to unite on a common goal and demand truth from the Obama administration and figure out how to survive locally as the central Banks and government goes bankrupt.
The majority of the transition team Dems want what we want...take over the Democratic party if you want change... or the Repubs.... Third parties are fine and you can work with more than one party, organization or group of friends at a time.
Why be surprised when Obama disappoints you? It is a given with the world wide mess we are in.
That is the lesson I learned from the past.
.You frame a literate and intelligent apology for ignoring law and justice. How to deter future lawlessness in the oval Office if we simply allow these criminals to skate away scot free?
I do not remember seventeen independent candidate nor , I think, do you. Nor do I think your portrayal of the substance of third party platforms and agendas is a fair or honest one. Deja Vu is a Presidential candidate making promises he had no intention of fulfilling. Deja Vu is yet another disappointing administration in the making. Deja vu is the continuing mantra of democratic loyalists flying in the face of reality and claiming that party to be one of progress, justice and peace.
I am certain you are a well meaning citizen who believes himself to have the best interests of this nation at heart , one who sees this blind loyalty to a proven liar ( sorry but I see that plainly) as the best thing for this country's future. But believing it best to allow Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Gonzalez/ et al to get away with the damage they have done to our government and our national reputation world wide is simply unacceptable to me, and , I hope, to a large number of folks.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
No I am not apologizing at all or letting war crimes go unpunished.... Obama is not president yet and anything that big will take time to do it right.
See things as you are, that is fine but why twist my words to make your own point...that is not right. You should know I am not asking for virtual immunity for Bush... Get real!
Also, On the ballot in Florida there were 17 candidates for president.
How is this gonna change anything?
Jim Glover,
Brother, can you spare just a little bit of justice?
Thanks,
Veteran Eric Blair
Sorry Brother,
I can't give you justice you have to Work for it like everyone.
http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/the_president-elects_plan/
.I was not aware that I twisted your words, only reflected upon them.
"Would it even be a successful way to lead the country out of our hole? I am not so sure."
Is it twisting these words to think you negate the value of justice? Or twisting your snide reference to seventeen candidates to think you diminish the value of third party and independent candidates? Or, for that matter, see only loyalty to the democratic party as the way to restore our national dignity?
I wonder what it is going to take, how much inaction, how much adherence to the status quo, how many more troops dying in an increased offensive in new territories, how many more dreams of retirement stolen, how many more homes lost, how much more of our tax dollars disappearing into the maw of great wealth before folks like you begin to see a trend?
How many more campaign promises is Obama going to have to renege upon before you think him disingenuous?
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
ardee,
you say "How many more campaign promises is Obama going to have to renege upon before you think him disingenuous?"
Obama said he will close down Guantanamo his first week today.
Maybe you are the one who is disingenuous.
I suppose you are not aware that you twist my words, because You have a habit of that.
Since you are obsessed with "busting balloons", there is a balloon in your head that needs attention.
My point is that we need to unite and progressives are divided and the 17 different candidates reflect that.
You are upset even that I point that out.
You may have a better luck here http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/the_president-elects_plan/
Cheers
.Apparently, Jim, you are one who takes criticisms of your ideas and ideals rather hard. I am sorry for you but this is a political forum you might understand and thus our posts are subject to the rigors of ideas and ideals of others as well. If you want no criticism speak into a mirror. You are getting increasingly snide, snotty and personal and I see no reason for it other than your own flawed personality. I have tried to make my comments germane and impersonal but , as you seem to understand, I can descend to your level quickly, though I'd rather not.
Again, there is nothing more important than the rule of law, that is a simple declaration. Defending Obama must become increasingly difficult as time goes on and he refuses to act, I feel sorry for your task. You claim that Obama has noted he will honor his promise to close Guantanemo, yet you link to nothing to support that claim. I have heard him note, as early as Sunday last, that it will take much time to do so, despite his prom,ise to close it within the first hundred days, what has changed? I have heard him say that he wants to "look forward" when asked about prosecution of criminal actions by the previous administration, that doesnt sound like th epursuit of justice to me.
If you want to act a child, lay on the floor,kick your feet until you turn blue, have at it. If you want to conduct an adult discussion of this issue I would prefer that. I suggest you either respond to my words honestly or ignore them, the way you are increasingly silly seems to stem from an inability to defend your hero rather than anything I have said.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
He's not backing down. He just said that closing Guantanamo will be a "challenge". Of course, it will be a challenge. What's wrong with saying that?
Everyone wants Obama to be perfect. But he's only human. He's not Jesus.
I'm sure it was also a challenge to shut down the Japanese internment camps after WWII. But it still happened didn't it?
Can anyone deny that Obama is still vastly better than McCain?
Anyone who says that Obama is breaking his promises is nothing more than a filthy liar!
.You are a childish little fellow, and the lies are coming from Obama.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
ardee, there you go again with the insults.
.You are increasingly tedious little fellow. Defend your own claims as an adult or continue to act the fool, your choice.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
I voted for Obama because I felt I had no choice - Palin and the Neocons hired by McCain left no choice - but I am growing increasingly happy about the fact that I did not spend lots of time campaigning for Obama on the basis of his promises. Many in Chicago feel he is little more than a political opportunist - I will give him the benefit of the doubt for a few more months - but if he doesn't implement rule of law, to include prosecuting war criminals - I will fervently campaign against him and all other Democrats till hell freezes over. His political expediency, his willingness to cater to the Right Wingers, should be a growing concern to every person who supported his candidacy.
I feel exactly the same way. Exactly. I have a rapidly sinking feeling about Obama and I'm not in the least surprised that I have a rapidly sinking feeling about him.
"I voted for Obama because I felt I had no choice."
Isn't this exactly what is at the heart of the so-called two-party system which, let's face it, is really a ONE-party system? No alternative candidates or viewpoints are allowed to be heard, thus ensuring only those already beholden to the corporatocracy will be the viable possibilities. This in turn ensures the corporate agenda will continue unabated.
"The technique of infamy is to invent two lies and to get the people arguing heatedly over which one is true." - Ezra Pound
Obama is nothing but status quo and the dingbat knows it. No wonder the Democrats were eager to fight against allowing Nader on the ballot even in 2008. If he had been on the ballot out here in TX, I would have been able to vote for him and not be stuck with Obama. And don't get me started about Barr.
And by the way, Mr. President Elect, if you are monitoring our conversation: I am a moderate - not a person who tends extremely left on most issues. If you think you will stabilize your vote margin for the upcoming elections by ignoring people in the middle who devoutly believe in the rule of law and the constitution you are - and will be mistaken. The moral fabric of this country - and I DO NOT mean that in purely religious terms - is diminishing. It is diminishing because our system of government of broken and few believe that moral or ethical conduct will pay them capitalistic dividends. The bankers can do what they want - the system bails them out. The government can run up huge deficits - nobody cares. US corporations pay abysmally low income tax (or none at all), yet the propaganda machine puts out we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world - but they forget to include the 1,001 loopholes made to conveniently bypass responsibility.
No, Mr. Obama, we don't trust you just because you are now THERE. And if you continue to cater to the corporate structure, you will lose in 2012 - there is a rising in this country, and those who listened to Kucinich and others will be more forceful, more vocal and more electoral than you can ever imagine. You cave to the right wing - they sneer at your weakness. You call it bipartisanship - they call it cowardice. We are not a center - right country Sir - the vote proved that. Now, yes now, you have to prove what you really are! Stand up - or simply stand aside.
."It is more honorable to repair a wrong than to persist in it." Thomas Jefferson
"I wish I could love my country and Justice too." Albert Camus
"Institutions are, in a moral sense, impotent unless they are supported by the sense of responsibility of living individuals." Albert Einstein
"I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act. But I do believe in a fate that falls on men unless they act." GKChesterton
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for laws; it invites every man to becomea law unto himself." Justice Brandeis
Where men build on false ground, the more they build the greater is the ruin." Hobbes, Leviathon
Whatever President Obama hopes to accomplish, whatever his vision for this nation should be, he will fail miserably if he allows us to move on from the crimes of the Bush administration without seeking justice. ( I said that)
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Here's a bit from a comment I posted elsewhere on April 12, 2008-- when Obama and Hillary were still vying for the nomination-- concerning the prospects of a new Democratic administration investigating and prosecuting the broad range of criminal and illicit acts and policies perpetrated by President Unitard and his criminal gang:
__________________________________________________
... I've elaborated elsewhere, but I find it all too likely that Clinton will justify a de facto amnesty on the brittle technocratic grounds of facilitating a "healing" and "restorative" bipartisan process to optimize the flow of the very remedial legislation that We the People mandated!
Obama, I expect, would pitch it in Lincolnesque terms: best to let bygones be bygones, rise above being mired in the degrading and tumultuous conflicts of the past, and seek healing and reconciliation in accordance with the better angels of our nature.
__________________________________________________
And another bit from a more recent comment:
__________________________________________________
I've always been skeptical of Happy Horseshit talk of reconciliation, cooperation, bipartisanship, etc.
Not because all of those things aren't desirable and wonderful, but because when politicians and the corporate media commentariat talk about such attractive ideals, you may be sure that it's in the service of blowing off the politically unpopular and risky actions needed to achieve social justice.
I spit when I hear a politician glibly pledge to work for "reconciliation", because I know that the grand notion of reconciliation will be used as a magnificent carpet under which to quietly sweep a multitude of sins. And then we tapdance on the carpet.
The sins, like cockroaches and untreated syphilis, invariably fester and return to bite We the People in our pendulous buttocks.
My fear is... that Obama's self-conscious identification with Lincoln will lead naturally to a Lincolnesque proclamation of Letting Bygones Be Bygones, etc.
__________________________________________________
And so it shall come to pass! The euphemism "moving forward" sets the stage for Bonnie Prince Barack to flush the outgoing maladministration's multifarious high crimes & misdemeanors down the Memory Hole. He's a distinguished constitutional scholar with the ethics of a dutiful janitor.
· Yr Obd't Servant
And this surprises who? Voters who believe in campaign promises? Certainly not anyone who is AWAKE!
Not for nothing was Hawaii "without power" when Mr. Obama was vacationing there. The symbolism was lost on no one.
Every criminal now has a new defense: We should look forward, not back.
Joe
jclientelle:Joe, I hope it isn't so, but I say Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! if it is an abrogation of the rule of law. (wow, where'd I get that?) I can hear Marjorie Cohn now www.marjoriecohn.com There'll be lots of folks going Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek and more.
C'mon Obama,
Don't cave in this soon in the game!!!
This is your chance for "real" change. By prosecuting the criminals that got us into this mess, you will be "moving forward!!"
Appoint another 911 commission, this time, one that seeks the truth and is willing to uncover what really happened on that fateful day, and continues to be the cause belli for our foreign policy as well as the terrorist tactics our current leaders have used on their own innocent countrymen.
Why are you being so shallow so soon? Forward vs Backward is just another manipulative way of using words so as to not confront what's really important to our country, which is to hold leaders accountable and seek the truth.
Don't be a "Black Bush!"
Writing our history accurately is more important than continuing to create the legacy Bush et al have passed onto you.
Get smart man!
Think of what such attitudes toward justice and accountability for wrongdoing convey to the world, and to the US's own citizens?
Imagine if a common gang member or violent estranged spouse on trial for first degree murder basing their defense on the prosecution dwelling on the past and a "need to go forward"? The judge would laugh out loud at such an argument!
BUT, if you are sufficiently powerful and wealthy, you can use such a defense - or worse yet you own would be prosecutors will use such a defense for you.
And so high moral principle for both individuals and states, that Obama is invoking here is simple. Might Makes Right - rule of law is for the weak; impunity is for the powerful.
For individuals, this means get a firearm (preferably fully automatic), and a scheme to threaten others with it and not get caught. For nation-states, it is a stockpile of nuclear bombs, a means to deliver them, and scheme to build them without getting caught. This is the morality Obama is espousing here.
Got Power?
---USAn---
So now his name is going to be Mr. "Nancy Pelosi" Obama.
Jeevee
Unutterably sad, but predicted. Are most voters too frenetic to have checked Obama's voting record before voting for him?
So, waterboarding and thumbscrews are O.K. with this Israeli sock puppet, or what?
What President since Washington has wanted to limit Presidential power? If Obama admits that Bush took powers that he shouldn't have, then those are powers that Obama will not have. That is why impeachment is so important. After the 20th it will take a groundswell or a revolution to get us(US)back to where we should be.
Wow, some of the folks here need to get a grip, seriously....
Jonathan Martin also needs to write a title and a first paragraph to his piece that reflects what was said. The piece starts off like a Fox news report.
That title started all of this, shame on you Martin.
If you read past the first paragraph, you find what Obama said,
"We have not made final decisions, but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing. That doesn't mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation's going to be to move forward."
Obama said that he and his team have not made final decisions yet, yet Martin would like to have us think otherwise.
Given the complete mess left by George W., I think that it is reasonable to begin by stopping any further damage.
If you have been reading this web site, you know that many organizations have pursued legal action against Bush and Company. Hasn't worked out very well. Obama may need the time to make sure that the Justice Dept and the rest of the US legal system is cleared of all stink from all of the Bush appointees before actively pursuing anything.
George W. and the rest will be around for awhile. They may be forced to leave the US in order to avoid prosecution - It took years but Kissinger cannot travel to certain countries because he will be arrested. I would be more than happy to see Bush, Cheney and the rest in this situation. Revenge is best served cold.
I myself would like to have my rights returned to me and to have the US govt acknowledge the existence of the Geneva Convention and the International Criminal Court Tribunal. This is what I think Obama means by moving forward.
Hope springs eternal, eh Pollyanna?
---USAn---
.Your post made me reread that article and especially the quotes attributed to the President-Elect. Once again I deduced from them that Obama is not going to appoint a special prosecutor, not going to order Justice and the GAO to investigate the war profiteering, not going to demand prosecution for lying this nation into war, not going to look further into the firings of Justice lawyers based upon political litmus tests, and certainly not going to restore the dignity of this nation.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
If, as appears likely from his public statements, Obama fails to pursue justice in the matter of the crimes committed by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Wolfowitz, Powell, Rice, etc., etc., etc., ... then he's a fraud and there's no chance that we will ever recover our once proud reputation for being a country ruled by laws and not men!
Shame on you Mr. Obama; you have revealed yourself as a lying political hack!
I FEEL TOTALLY BETRAYED!
"So let us regard this as settled: what is morally wrong can never be advantageous, even when it enables you to make some gain that you believe to be to your advantage. The mere act of believing that some wrongful course of action constitutes an advantage is pernicious." - Marcus Tullius Cicero (106-43 B.C.)
Bob Regl
When the ruling elite in Amerika commit heinous crimes, it's all about "looking forward," but if the it's the guy who lives in a run-down section of Amerika, then it's "let's build more prisons."
With each new day Obama shows himself for the reactionary corporate lackey that he is.
I hate what this nation has become.
He can't look back, because America is ruled by a US Military Industrial Junta dictatorship, since 1963. Obama has only been elected as the Media Representative Figure Head of said Junta. Expect nothing more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1963 & 1968- Dallas and Los Angeles Coup d'État by the US Military Industrial Junta completed, according to modern examination of old evidence
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.", Albert Einstein. (Ed note: WHITE PHOSPHOROUS, DENSE METAL SUPER WEAPONS, NUCLEAR STICK UP, MISSILE DEFENSE, AND PROPAGANDA!!!!!)
No matter who runs, the same side always wins.
One of the comments below said, "Obama said that he and his team have not made final decisions yet..." Huh? You mean, he hasn't decided to prosecute known violators of U.S. Constitution, international law, human rights, and committers of war crimes? More of the same folks. More of the same. When will they ever learn. When will they ever learn?
Obama will be in no position to say Bush is guilty or even plan to prosecute Bush people before he is president...then it will take time to gather the documents and decide. It will be up to us to push him for peace and justice for years to come... we are the government and the politicians our public servants...Empower ourselves and unite and we will see more change coming.
I want to see him recognize the World Court first thing before goin after the Republicans.
That would be the best first forward step for justice.
.Stop attempting to propagandize the position of those seeking justice. Noone is asking for a verdict from Obama, only an assurance that he will pursue justice. We cannot seem to get even that.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Your problem is you are seeing things as you are.
and
You are seeing things that are not.
.Your problem seems to be a rather large lack of maturity and ability to defend your position without revealing the fact that you have the mentality of a twelve year old.
This last effort, as well as the previous three responses to me, remain empty of substance, off target and reveal much about you and nothing whatever about the topic. If you intend to turn into a stalker because I dared disagree with your position and dared criticize your hero you reveal much about you and nothing whatever of import.
I expected much better of you, Jim, sorry you have disappointed us all.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
He could hire Vincent Bugliosi to expedite the process at home. And yes, we should have some formal connection with international law.
Joe
Well! Who's yer Daddy now?
Is it time to bend over yet?
Obama--he wont rock the boat! A triangulator, a man without backbone, always ready to give in...
Dr Wu, the last of the big-time thinkers
Normally, it would be a great achievement for the US to elect as president a person of color. However, I am not sure it is so wonderful when the color is yellow, as in yellow coward.
We are not a country ruled by law, we are a country ruled by lawyers. International law means nothing, or rather, it means what it is convenient for it to mean. The humans race has not advanced, it has slid backwards. The pinnacle of human social development was the tribe. We need to have a process by which people can rule who know what it is to be desperately poor, powerless, and victimized. That's not ever likely to happen. Obama would have to have a hose down his throat before he would know about water-boarding. The fault, I'm afraid, is not with individuals, it's with the human race. Sentience was developed by a few species, but an aggressive ape was not one to succeed for long. Too bad we will ruin it for the dolphins and whales.
Unless we expose the charade that sent our subsidized industrial base to China
we are doomed. Building roads and bridges was ok for the WPA and the CCC.
They worked at minimum wages.
We are being enslaved by the workings of the Bush and Clinton Families.
A few more months of this depression and it will be to late to wake up.
Afraid to get caught in the quagmire they build for us, we are being told to
move forward. That is the same Patois Politicians use when they get caught with
there fingers in the cookie jar. Let's have full disclosure of the Bush and
Clinton Machine and how we have been taken to the cleaners. Both Bush and Clinton
are Multi-Millionaires now. Why are Foreign governments donating tens of millions
of Dollars to Bill Clinton? Do they owe him? What a double cross. Unless we
hold these people responsible for this scam, they will repeat it all over again,
like the Bailout. Who will tell us?
Why is everybody so obsessed with Bush and his gang? Or Clinton, for that matter?
Does nobody realize that these guys are nothing but straw men, go-fers, second and third tier capos for the real Godfathers?
Going after Bush and company may satisfy our sense of outrage and our need for justice, but the problem will never be solved until the Godfathers and Godmothers are exposed and permanently separated from their money.