Nader Calls for Bush-Cheney Impeachment
Independent presidential hopeful Ralph Nader spoke outside the White House Friday, calling for the impeachment of President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.
Nader said the President has, “dishonored the White House and brought a pattern of waste.”
“A wasteful defense is a weak defense and a weak defense, inspires waste,” Nader said.
Surrounded by a handful of supporters, holding signs which read “From Katrina to Iraq, Colossal Failure,” and “Resign Bush-Cheney, Like Nixon-Agnew,” Nader charged that the President and Vice President are currently committing five impeachable offenses, on a daily basis, including: criminal use of offense against Iraq; condoned and approved systematic torture; arresting thousands of Americans — denying them habeas corpus and violating attorney/client privilege; signing 800 signing statements, precluding the president from actually having to follow the laws he signs; and systematic spying on Americans without judicial approval.
Nader also had criticism for the 2008 Democratic and Republican presidential candidates, calling Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., the “corporate candidates.”
Nader, 73, announced in February, 2008 that he is running for president again.
“If Democrats can’t landslide the Republicans this year, they ought to just wrap up, close down, emerge in a different form,” he said at the time, arguing that as president he would take on the “bloated military budget,” reform labor laws, repeal the Taft-Hartley Act, and target corporate crime.
For more on Nader’s announcement, click HERE.
Nader, has run for president as an independent in the past three presidential elections in 1996, 2000, and 2004. Many Democrats believe he was one of the reasons then-Vice President Al Gore lost the 2000 election to Bush. Running on the Green Party ticket, Nader won more than 97,000 votes in Florida, where Gore ultimately lost to Bush by 537 votes.
© 2008 ABC News
Thank you so much, Ralph Nader, for holding up the banner for Real Democracy, where We the People get to make the decisions that affect our lives - versus what we now have, Corporate Control of Everything.
How long will “progressives” fall for the old good cop-bad cop routine? The Obamarana is not “hope” or “change.” It’s just more of the same old garbage with different packaging.
What is this “change” he talks about, specifically, Obamaramans?
Really, we’re going into crucial times for the survival of our species and many other species, and you would still support someone from the corrupt Illinois Democratic Party? The corporate-owned and controlled National Dem. Party?
Please, let’s organize around the ISSUES, not some personality we like better than another….Nader’s the ISSUE man, if you’re into the Presidential race at all, and you’re serious about saving what’s left, he’s the ONLY one to support.
His website is http://www.votenader.org where you’ll see the panoply of REAL ISSUES we face.
Otherwise, it doesn’t matter who gets in, see records of both Dems. and Reps, for comparison - tell me the difference in deeds, not just words.
- organic gardener in Downeast Maine
Yoh. Obama! You Hillary! Yoh McCain! Yoh Pelosi! You know malfeasance and high crimes and misdemeanors when you see them. And still, impeachment is off the table? Why? Because winning an election is more important than defending the U.S. Constitution, that’s why. And not impeaching is being complicit with the Bush regime. And so is voting for Hillary, Obama, McCain who are silent on the issue. Of course Democrats will see Nader’s action in calling for impeachment as “fringe”. But deep down inside they know Nader is right. How about some courage of convictions? Run! Ralph Run!
At least Nader has more huevos than any frickin’ Dumbocrat.
Hell, I’m all for impeaching whichever Dumbocrat wins in November for not defending the Constitution over the past 7 years.
Impeachment is the only answer. Otherwise, this administration will leave, to future administrations, dangerous weapons of mass destruction lying around that any of them can pick up and use against our own people, as this administration has so effectively done.
In order to defuse those bombs that will be left lying around, this administration must be held accountable for its actions. Otherwise, it sets a dangerous precedent of overreaching power that future administrations will feel free to use.
IMPEACH NOW, WITH NO MORE EXCUSES!!!
Nader is the real thing. He’s done more for this country and the man on the streets than the entire CONgress and the traitors in the White House. WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN, DEMAND IMPEACHMENT AND VOTE FOR NADER.
NOW!! PLEASE DON’T WAIT!! JUSTICE MUST PREVAIL!!
It is my understanding the Ralph took money from Republicans for his campaign in 2004. Am I wrong about this? Yes, Ralph is usually right and speaks the truth and I do honor his right to run, however if we elect John McCain to the White House it will be a great tragedy. Electing Barack Obama would be just fine with me and with a good running mate, he will prevail.
It’s so friggin’ annoying that the major media (note that this article is from ABC, and note also how it provides a “Just the facts [that we’ve been told to skew]” viewpoint) once again marches out such an inane and sophmoric recap of the Big Electoral Mess that was Florida 2000:
“Running on the Green Party ticket, Nader won more than 97,000 votes in Florida, where Gore ultimately lost to Bush by 537 votes.”
Oh, nevermind the shenanigans, let’s just end this “news” story with a reminder of how Nader cost Gore the presidency and is therefore responsible for these past seven years of fecophile government. Does anyone else see the hidden motive here? ABC is trashing Nader once again, and (most importantly) any and all indictments he casts at the current misAdministration.
I’m not of the opinion that Nader would make a good president, but ABC is just adding fuel to the fire that makes any issue Nader speaks about too hot to handle for any other candidate. Stuff it, ABC.
When former politicians like BILL CLINTON can recieve $10,000,000 from the Saudi Kingdom, as a gift,there has to be a reason. The refusal of the candidates to raise any issue, especially the subsidizing of our industrial base to China, has yet to be addressed. Thank God for Ralph Nader, here is hoping he exposes the boys for what they are, money grabbers…
I’d like to add (because the pro-Nader crowd has my respect and I’m not lookin’ for a fight) that EACH and EVERY idea, issue, opinion the man has uttered in these campaigns deserves full discourse and merits serious consideration. I just don’t want them trashed on a national level (like so many of Carter’s good ideas) simply due to the personality of the proponent.
I respect Ralph Nader immensely, but the sheeple need someone other than him to lead them, even if it’s with the same exact set of ideals and platform priorities.
Pressure your candidate-of-choice to…if you’ll pardon the pun I’m making with respect to my last post…grab the iron WHILE it’s hot and go to work!
Didn’t Ralph take money from Republicans during his run in 2006?????
Elections are a gauge as to what, “We the People” are willing to accept.
Ralph is a tough minded respectable man. Why isn’t he running with the Green Party again? The Greens have a foothold and a sustaining philosophy. It seems that Nader’s efforts are aimed more at awakening the public than building a movement. I welcome him into the race but I am voting Green.
Didnt Nader also breath the same air as Republicans when he visited Congress and not insist on using an oxygen tank containing virgin air from the Appalachians so he could remain completely pure and 100 percent perfect? Obviously refusing the air means Nader is corrupt.
Better to vote for someone who was more consistent, and not only takes money from republicans but works with them to push their agenda.
I am sorry to keep repeating myself but:
Didn’t Ralph take money from Republicans during his run in 2006?????
rfkolbe,
If you repeat yourself again…wasn’t it 2004?
Dream on, Ralphie boy. All the prize horses have gotten out of the barn; now you want to put doors on it?
These bastards have been committing impeachable offenses almost since day one of their incumbency. What the hell good is it gonna do now that they’ve got less than a year to serve?
Oh yes, it will make a statement. Just like all the statements that the Democrats have made in Congress since gaining control after the 2006 elections; they’re called “non-binding resolutions”. You know what you can do with non-binding resolutions; you can wipe your ass with them.
And if you don’t know how to exercise that procedure, just ask Karl Rove to show you how, like he did when he recently received a subpoena.
But, if you just want to set an example, I’ve got the tar, you bring the feathers.
Dream on, Ralphie boy. All the prize horses have gotten out of the barn; now you want to put doors on it?
These bastards have been committing impeachable offenses almost since day one of their incumbency. What the hell good is it gonna do now that they’ve got less than a year to serve?
Oh yes, it will make a statement. Just like all the statements that the Democrats have made in Congress since gaining control after the 2006 elections; they’re called “non-binding resolutions”. You know what you can do with non-binding resolutions; you can wipe your ass with them.
And if you don’t know how to exercise that procedure, just ask Karl Rove to show you how, like he did when he recently received a subpoena.
But, if you just want to set an example, I’ve got the tar, you bring the feathers.
Ralph Nader is a great crusader but he will F$$K UP the election once again, I would prefer if Dennis would switch Parties because I think he has a greater chance than Nader and would actually DO what HE SAYS.
When they ‘Disappeared’ Kucinich we lost a valiant warrior for this entire Nations needs.
Say what you will I check his Vote Calls, Attendance and Opinions I hear on videos from HIMSELF and he is a great plus and we lost a Great one.
Forgot, you all can quote Antonan Scalia, “Why don’t you all just get over it”, he is one of the Supremes and we are supposed to get the F$$K over the Constitutin, since when their is a tie in a state the PEOPLE of THAT STATE are to count ALL VOTES. SO….
Yes he took money from the Republicans and yes he recieved 97,000 votes in Florida in 2,000 and Gore lost Florida by 537 votes.
If Gore had won in Florida he would have been our president instead of Bush. Thank goodness we didn’t have a damn Democrat in that important office again, look at the mess we were in with Bill Clinton. Bush fixed that mess up real good.
I suppose if Nader had not been a candidate in 2000, Bush would have won in Florida by 97,537 votes, obvioulsy Nader did not hurt Gore at all, he was trying to help the Democrats.
See how smart I am? I know what’s going on.
So I don’t understand why so many here admire him, because so many here at C/D hate the Democrats. Of course Obama is not really a Democrat, he’s for US, it’s OUR time and he votes the same as McCain on almost every issue.
Go Ralph, go. Yahoooo.
It should be obvious by now, there will be no impeachment, unless they catch Bush getting a blow job.
Blow jobs are ok now. Clinton made it acceptable behaviour. That’s why he’s so popular.
thewonderingyou is probably correct that “the sheeple need someone other than him to lead them” and as Nader said before, he would step aside if Dennis Kucinich had a chance to be crowned as the Democratic candidate. The problem here is that corporate America will not permit candidates who express ANY opinion that can be viewed as anti-corporate. Nader will never appear on a MSM debate in the next 6 months against the corporate candidates. Nader will only get negative press from the corporate media and in most states he won’t even get on the ballot.
As for rfkolbe who suggested that perhaps Ralph Nader accepted money from the Republicans, I can only say that if I were Nader, I would gladly accept donations from any party. After all it was rumoured that the Democrats seriously considered assisting Ross Perot in 1991, as it was obvious that Ross was siphoning off support from the Republican base at the time.
The point is Ralph needs all the help he can get and sometimes circumstances out of our control occur in which the outside horse wins the race. If for example Bush launched a war against Iran three weeks before the election and Obama got assassinated the following day, Ralph would suddenly be looking pretty good to even the most sceptical Americans.
The comment that some is un-electable is nonsense. If the majority of people simply vote for the ‘un-electable’ candidate, then that person will be elected! FDR was labelled as un-electable in 1931 only to win by a landslide that caught the ruling classes totally off guard. What followed were 13 years of tremendous growth in the U.S. and the emergence of our middle class.
cleanearth is absolutely correct that Nader is the only candidate that addresses the ISSUES. Again though the mainstream candidates are not permitted to discuss ISSUES or else they will be excluded from participating in the run for the presidency. Once our Democratic candidate is chosen, that person could then stand up and speak the truth if they are so inclined to do so. However if the Democratic candidate is still spouting rhetoric in the final months before the election, the American populace would be well advised to vote for Nader.
I have seen other so-called ‘liberal’ candidates shoot to the top only to confuse Americans with moves like choosing a right wing ideologue (Gore-Liebermann) as their running mate or INCREASING the military budget even beyond the wildest dreams of the Neo-Cons. Whether Obama or Hilary are chosen to battle it out with McCain, Americans would be ill advised to vote for either one of them if the Democratic nominee still avoids to address the ISSUES without the rhetoric and BS that the MSM loves so much.
Mr. Nader has always come to the point of reality. Impeach now, Pelosi is and was wrong. Look at the damage control issue. We don’t know the feeding frenzy the current administration is having RIGHT NOW, before their tenure ends. All in a magic haze of secrecy because the corporate media has been told to shut up. It is not too late to stop it. google “impeach”, find a site you agree with and support it.
Forget it folks.
Bush would not be impeached if he would come to congress with the original constitution, rip it to pieces … use one for ligthening his cigar … and the rest to cleanup his ass.
He didn’t lose Gore the election; Gore lost Gore the election by not standing up for himself and HIS COUNTRY and the PEOPLE who voted for him. The Supreme court gave BUSH the election, and voterfraud gave it to him again in 2004.
And, after watching the current campaign for the White House, is there anybody out there that thinks we have a viable electoral process - that is actually related to “of, by and for the People.
We’ve got three groups doing BUSINESS with BUSINESS, for Profit and Influence to the detriment of the Planet and the People: Dem**s, Ret**ds and Medioc**ps
If Nader wanted the right thing done as refers to impeachment why the hell does he wait until now to raise the issue? Why didn’t he do this a year ago or two years ago? Seems more like a political stunt to announce it now. That’s just what is needed more political stunts. But I don’t want to infringe on the church of Nader lest their choir go off tune again. Cats in a bag and all of that. Ralph is basically cool even if he’s a bit tone deaf. If he can raise the impeachment prospect then all the glory to him, if not he’s just another stooge. At this point I think Moe, Larry and Curly would be proud.
Nader Calls for Bush-Cheney Impeachment? He’d be better off calling for his supper or his dog. Ain’t nuthin’ gonna happen with puppets like Pelosi torpedoing the idea since the start of her reign. If the Dummocrats blow this election, I’m going back to bed for good. May as well get some sleep.
If Nader “steals” votes from Democrats, it will be because the people who vote for Nader think he works in their interests more than the Democrats do. If the Democrats are worried about this, the logical response in our democracy is for them to heed his policy positions, adopt more of them, and thus bring more of Nader’s proponents into their fold.
If the Democrats refuse to do this, it’s their own fucking failure. And unfortunately, their entitlement issues and idiocy, which would prevent them from adopting truly progressive stances, would/will screw all of us.
There is also a huge amount of blame to be pinned on the large percentage of the US public who vote on personality and prejudice rather than on shrewd analysis of candidates’ policies.
Our civic culture is so screwed up on multiple levels now that there is very little hope. Personally, I feel like an innocent victim of this collective idiocy.
Thank you Ralph Nader; you are a man for all seasons!
Instead of ridiculously running for President, Ralph Nader, why don’t you/didn’t you just stick with the WAR CRIMINAL prosecution actions and really make a difference? I no longer understand or support your reasoning - seems arrogance and righteousness cloud your vision these days, even though I agree with the charges leveled at the pitiful child-brain puppet commander-in-chief, and the REAL president, Dick Cheney. And don’t you think it’s a little late in the game to catch onto the war criminal accusations? WE THE PEOPLE have known about it since the invasion of Iraq…where were you THEN? Contemplating your next run for the oval office no doubt?!
I just don’t see how the Democratic Party wins this November. They’ve displayed an inability to conduct an orderly and fair election, disenfranchising more than two million of their own voters, allowing an extremely nasty contest driven by an unfriendly press, and will end up promoting an overly ambitious arriviste for president.
Santayana said that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Let’s look back at 1972. We had a very unpopular president, a very unpopular war, and record breaking participation in the Democratic primaries. All indications of an overwhelming November win for the Democrats yet Nixon won re-election by a landside. These are the same elements that the current Democrats are counting on for a win in the general election.
The party’s circumstances are even worse this time around. Sure, Bush’s approval rating is at an all time low for a president, but the democratically controlled congress has an even lower approval rating. This congress has refused to take any action or inaction to bring the Iraq war to an end, even though the public has unequivocally indicated that is what it earnestly wants.
Get used to calling John McCain Mr. President.
Thank you –thewonderingyou. Nader took money from Republicans in 2004 (not 06, —-just waking up)
If Nader is taking money, is he not taking corporate money? It is wrong for him to do that and then go on to rail against the corporations.
The candidate that I like and am proud to say I voted for is: Matt Gonzalez, his running mate. Gonzales is a smart lawyer and fine public servant but I cannot vote for him. I wish he were a Democrat.
Yes, the Democrats should have impeached Bush and Cheney, but it will not happen. The Democrats should do ANYTHING to block, obstruct and defeat ANYTHING this criminal president wants to do. They should have been and should be in his face all the way to January 20, 2009, when my long nightmare will end.
This president and many of those working under him are indeed criminals, so I am happy to hear Ralph speak the truth, once again.
peace–
I am still planning to vote for Obama. Nader has done nothing but talk, and precious little of that! He could use some of Jesse Ventura’s mouth.
If voting for Ralph Nader or for the Green candidate will most likely put the corporate candidate into the White House, then not voting for Ralph Nader or for the Green candidate will most likely put the other corporate candidate into the White House. But that debate is puerile and we need to go beyond it.
Imagine if sufficent votes are made for a progressive candidate by enough citizens so as to get a respectable third place showing. Momentum is building. It will be there for the 2012 elections. This momentum will be useful for progressive candidates in runs for Senate and Congress in 2010, not to mention state and local elections.
And how is it that we expect political parties that are not internally democratic to respect democracy? That is madness. In my opinion it is more important that we set up the possibility to get open, democratically run parties whatever their ideology into the House and Senate than that we not elect the corporate Republican candidate.
People who tell the truth are seldom egomaniacs and often ignored thoughtlessly which brings us to the world’s present, disastrous mess.
Ralph is America’s greatest public citizen ever.
Why do news reports continue to repeat the lie that Nader cost Gore Florida? Notice how they frame it: “many Democrats believe.” This is irresponsible journalism. Just because many people believe something doesn’t mean you report it as news. Or you could balance this extremist view with facts, which news organizations often do. They might point out that this charge is not true.
My signature is “formernadervoter” but I will be voting for Ralph and Matt Gonzalez—who is a superb choice by the way—once again. I really have no choice between the two corporate parties.
Whoever believes the voting numbers I would like to sell a bridge.
I welcome our boy, Ralph Nader to the debate. He is truly the most experienced presidential candidate out there. But he is having a problem getting on the Ballot in Oregon, one of the most progressive States in the union. We have to stand by someone who has a Chance of becoming President. Ralph, your a great person, and your 100% correct on everything. But we need to give Obama a chance.
Impeach? Yes! But Congress must go further and hold Bush-Cheney legally accountable in a court of law for unlimited crimes against The United States, its citizens, and humanity in general . . . the sooner the better.
Congress, Presidential Candidates, and the public must stop living in a fantasy. They must face reality. We simply cannot allow those who lied and subsequently caused the deaths of so many to go unpunished: the over 4000 in (our) military, the thousands maimed for life, the hundreds who have committed suicide; and the well over a million, mostly innocent people, in Iraq who only wanted to get through the day. And there were more deaths of innocent civilians yesterday - the result of US Air Strikes. This has got to end; just as American citizens
are collectively being held hostage by those currently in power.
The above is not just my opinion, but that of everybody I have come in contact with these last few years - of all political factions. We all want the same thing: Justice;
and we expect Congress to uphold the US Constitution and act accordingly.
There is nothing to celebrate this Memorial Day . . . it is another of mourning for every individual who has become a victim of the insanity.
Thank you thank you, thank you, Ralph Nader….
IMPEACH THESE WAR CRIMINALS
How you should vote?
“ANYBODY BUT THE TWO PARTIES”
All you have to do is vote for a candidate who is not Democrat or Republican.
If you’re stupid you will fall for the same crap you’ve been eating since the revolution and support a massive war machine with low paying jobs and no health care.
Do you think the likes of Clinton or McCain give a rats arse for the working man or woman, they haven’t in the past so why should they now.
The biggest scam is the illegals stealing your jobs when in fact your jobs are being shipped abroad because foreign workers are paid even less than you are.
You have to take the bull by the horns, go into that voting booth and vote the bastards out, every single one of them. Form a workers party and get active.
As time passes, the bitterly furious criticisms, harsh recriminations, and scathing denunciations of Nader ring more and more hollow– residual heat without light.
Despite the benefits of modern psychology– and its bastard child, pop psychology, which spawned the Self-Help Clan– people remain “judgemental”. Broadly speaking, I believe that ordinary people (excluding saints, adepts, spiritual masters) instinctively decide whether each Other is “cool” or “uncool”. The degree and complexity of this instinct varies according to context.
One technique for making assessments or judgements is to employ a “litmus test”. I don’t mean that pejoratively, at least in this context. Perhaps others remember a classic James Thurber cartoon, in which onlookers at a cocktail party are watching some lascivious female dancing wildly in the middle of the room. The caption is a comment by one woman observing the spectacle to another: “She’s all I know about Bryn Mawr, and all I need to know!”
For rfkolbe, the issue of whether Nader accepted contributions from Republics is the despositive factor. This question is incorporated by more virulent critics into a damning view of Nader as either a shadow plutocrat playing Judas Goat on behalf of his cohorts to subvert and corrupt the election process and keep the Republics in charge, or as a mad narcissist who will stop at nothing to parasitically drain support and attention from legitimate politicians and candidates.
To respond to rfkolbe’s latter point: if indeed Nader accepted and/or solicited financial support from Republics, isn’t that prima facie proof of Nader’s bad faith and unsound character? How could it possibly be otherwise? As noted, it calls into question Nader’s true aims and loyalties. Is he not incontrovertably a shill of the corporate finiancial interests?
Only if one infers that accepting campaign contributions sets up the same quid pro quo as one might reasonably expect from typical US politicians: money talks, bullshit walks, so financial contributors are effectively buying the candidate and his or her influence.
I don’t think for a nanosecond that Nader buys into the sordid political SOP of “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours”. I think it’s far likelier that Nader is laughing all the way to the bank on this issue, happily accepting transfusions of support from all comers with no intention of modifying his behavior and belief on their behalf.
And I’m also sympathetic to the rationale that Nader’s acceptance of questionable support is more than offset by the always shameless and occasionally scurrilous tactics of Democratic Party officials, who have uncompromisingly stiff-armed Nader and undermined his every attempt to find and keep a foothold in the political process.
I’m not so appalled that Ralph might pull in to a wingnut Pep Boys for repairs each time Democratic operatives slash his tires.
Ralph Nader isn’t flawless, but he’s stayed on the high(er) moral ground and is still very much Part of the Solution.
impeach? how about hanging? and why do people still discuss the past two elections as though they were legitiamite. My God that annoys the hell out of me. Didnt anyone watch hacking democracy or read black box voting or see the Clint Curtis deposition? The 2000 and 2004 elections were completely and totally fraudulent. How could we ever know what the elections really yielded when the voting machines were counting backwards for Al Gore? When hundreds of thousands of votes were tossed into the everglades by katherine harris. When hundreds of thousands of votes were supressed in Ohio. Al Gore lost Florida by 500 votes, and Nader cost him the election? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE ARE YOU COMPLETELY FUCKING BRAINDEAD?!!!!! The elections were hacked, the numbers were completely fictitious. Get over it already. Hell, in 2004 it was Ralph Nader that said the democratic primaries were being hacked and that Kerry was a set up candidate and that Howard Dean should have been the candidate. Why isnt voter fraud NUMBER ONE on the list as to why the Bush Crime family should be sentenced! if they didnt steal the elections nothing else would have happened…..why are we standing for the bullshit elections? theres a damn documentary on HBO for crying out loud, there is actual evidence and yet we stand for it, WHERE IS THE GODDAMN REVOLUTION?!!!!!
What is this? “Didn’t Ralph take money from Republicans during his run in 2006?????” As if John Kerry, or Obama/Hillary returned donations made to their campaigns by Republicans? You see, one set of rules for Dems and Republicans and another set for Nader. This is what we are talking about here.
AMUSED: You asked why hasn’t Nader brought up impeachment a year or two ago. He DID BRING IT UP many years ago! Where have you been? Oh. Sucking up what the corporate media and two Corporate Parties have been telling you. See: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/05/31/the_i_word?mode=PF
LIBERAL WITH AN ATTITUDE: Right on! I wonder if the same people who buy the lies about the prior 2 elections *(and their alleged numbers/game) are also the ones who think 911 “just happened to happen.”
LITTLE BROTHER: Good commentary. I, too, see Nader as one of the more important persons of our times, one who has made a difference. It’s troubling that for many he’s become a scapegoat for the inequities of one political party and the lack of integrity in the other. He’s a pox on both their houses, and of course, given both have strayed so far from the Truth of what this representative republic is purported to stand for, in a way it’s too his credit that he is so hated, or rather, feared…
Hey Siouxrose where on earth have you been? very glad to hear from you! no shit about 9/11. Can you say Reichstag fires? I guess even the liberals don’t want to admit the elections are fraudulent because of the what do we do now scenario? the then why should we vote can of worms. ironically enough if the elections were boycotted by every single individual in America, the elections would still show the highest turnout in history….welcome to the banana republic….america the latest third world dictatorship…where what you see is never real
The fanatic machine people who depend of the dem machine for a living, are out there attacking Ralph Nader. Yet,,,no one questions the fact that Bill-boy Clinton recieved $10,000,000
from the Saudi Kingdom, for his trust in Ark…
Where are the do-goodies on this one?
The machines have become so courrupt they are out of control and in the pockets of Corporate
America, the people be damned, tell us of how the Clintons have become multi-millionairs…
Dear “Liberal with an Attitude:
I couldn’t have said it any better. Where the is the Revolution? Peeps are so submissive these days. They just take it and take it. Watch TV, wait in “car lines” to buy their McDonald’s 1,000 cow patty, pop Big Pharma pills, and become obsessed with corporate sports events. Wake-up peeps, the boogie-man is here and he’s coming after you. Regain your honor, pride, and dignity. Peeps, stand up and be counted. Do it now.
Why isnt voter fraud NUMBER ONE on the list as to why the Bush Crime family should be sentenced! if they didnt steal the elections nothing else would have happened…..why are we standing for the bullshit elections? theres a damn documentary on HBO for crying out loud, there is actual evidence and yet we stand for it, WHERE IS THE GODDAMN REVOLUTION?!!!!!
That one’s easy. We’re corrupt, just like the government we pay taxes to and obey the laws of, the corporations we work for, and the media we watch (and create on the Internet). Our culture is dysfunctional, diseased through and through. Is it really not obvious why just about everyone of every political stripe goes around pointing fingers at everyone else? It’s a political Drama Triangle.
Wake-up peeps, the boogie-man is here and he’s coming after you. Regain your honor, pride, and dignity. Peeps, stand up and be counted. Do it now.
That’s a nice thought, but we all know what we type here on CommonDreams isn’t going to have one iota of effect on the vast majority of American minds because they’ll never read any of ir, right? Using all-caps won’t help either.
Waking people up is no simple task, especially when their brains have grown to avoid pain. They have to put a lot of work and effort into it themselves. Check the comments here: http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/22/9123/
What a hero Ralph is. Thats why when he had the chance to actually win an election, instead of standing to the side and pointing at the flaws, He chose not to run, in his own state, against Joey-the-jokester-Lieberman. In his silence, Ralphie refused to fight where he might have made a difference. What a shame that he didn’t have the courage to wage a real fight with honor.
Seriously, this man is so bright and yet such a sickening coward. So now he speaks but is heard by the remaining few who still think he means to do what he says. He “could have been a contender, Charlie.” Instead he’s just another finger pointer with no obvious clue how to make real change. Not even a hint of how to actually put political “change” together.
In some ways, I think Ralph’s actions, especially in that last Senatorial race define political cowardice.
Now he simply wants, once again, to be in some kind of desperate spotlight and piss into the wind.
Great, Ralph. Your too late. Maybe you can groom someone with your message who has courage, who has the will to win. Where you when we cared to hear you. You were sitting down.
Our government doesn’t work well. It’s bought.
In this framework, how can Ralph Nader do anything wrong, and how can he do anything right? Ralph can’t win because he doesn’t have a bus full of lobbyists.
We people that voted for Ralph, especially in some particularly lopsided state, knew full well by looking at the polls that our individual votes didn’t count for beans for winning, except we could vote for what we wanted and maybe someone would take notice.
People that voted for Ralph in Florida may have decided that an evil had crept into their state government, and no single vote would expunge that evil. In fact, the election thieves won, 5 to 4, and one citizen’s vote wouldn’t have changed that.
Now, back to the present. I still hate sellout elections, and I look a bit suspiciously at any co-dependent enablers of fraudulent elections. In any case I still live in a lopsided state. I can vote for Ralph’s ideas in this state and it still won’t matter one whit.
Well, you’re right there jozef and I stand corrected. I really should have said that why didn’t he continue the call to impeach instead of waiting two years to reiterate it in a political context. But I did not convey my thoughts well. You, on the other hand had to be a bit of a dick and say that I was sucking up to something corporate. Bit of a statement to make not knowing anything about me, huh. Well, live in your world but try not to jump to conclusions too quick unless of course you meant to be a dick in which case you can go fuck yourself.
Many Democrats believe he was one of the reasons then-Vice President Al Gore lost the 2000 election to Bush.
Many Demoks also believed the US military could bring democracy to Iraq. Many Demoks also believed that US sanctions could bring countries like Iraq and Cuba into the US fold. Many Demoks also believed that economic growth at all cost is sustainable, or didn’t care. Many Demoks also believed that NAFTA, WTO and such “free trade” policies would create net positives. Many Demoks also believed that corporate consolidations and globalization were “inevitable” per M. Thatcher. Many Demoks also believed that we could continue playing with divisive social issues such as gay marriage while the US military and predatory capitalism lurches catastrophically around the globe. Most Demoks, including O’Bama, believe today that they deserve to play politics with the lives of millions of innocent Iraqis.
Nader’s message regarding the Demoks applies as much today as ever: The Demoks make their own beds.
And Ralph continues to be an asshole like his buddies Claybrook and Ditlow.
Do thank him for helping to give us Bush.
Now this schmuck comes out calling for impeachment?
He peaked when he helped eliminate the Corvair.
Art - Lifelong Liberal who is embarassed by Nader.
Anyone who doesn’t vote for Nader or Paul likes things as they are and prefers to live in a fantasy world where Dems will bring “change” in spite of all evidence to the contrary.
Here’s an easy litmus test: if Big Oil and Big Corp Media and Big Defense and Big Retail and Wall Street likes a candidate, said candidate should never, ever be elected.
The former President of Peru is being tried for murder and other crimes. If it can happen there, it can - and should - happen here.
Oh my God, finally a powerful figure in politics has come out and voiced their opinion concerning our corrupt administration. This event will rally enough people to finally bring justice.
LOL
Gosh! Where does one begin?
Nader lost Gore the election? Gore lost the election by not standing up?
I read that a group [of journalists?] did a recount of all of Florida before Bush’s first installation, and that Gore WON the popular vote. It was supposedly reported in the N Y Times - in a tiny article buried in the middle of a section: no one wanted to cast doubt Bush’s ‘legitimacy.’ Who believed in Bush’s legitimacy?! Didn’t a bunch of Republicans march in and disrupt the re-count? (Isn’t that a federal crime, by the way? When was the trial?) Didn’t the Supreme Court put the kibosh on the recount? Do those confer legitimacy?
Gore didn’t stand up for himself? Let’s see: my memory tells me that he went all the way to the Supreme Court - which is how they came to be able to appoint Bush. Where would you have wanted him to go from there? (I wish I believed in Hell: Sandra Day O’Connor undid any/every decent vote she ever cast by going along with that decision - because she wanted a Republican to choose her successor - and still she does not repent of it! Shame!)
Nader took money from Republicans? Don’t know about that. I know why the Republicans would have wanted to give to Nader’s campaign: they hoped he would take enough votes away from Gore to put their incompetent degenerate into the White House. Why would Nader take it? Why not? It takes a lot of money to run for President. I’m with ALEXNOSAL: if I were running, I’d take money from anyone willing to give it to me. (They simply wouldn’t get any promises in return; and, if they showed up at the Oval Office to beg favors, they’d be told to ‘get in line’ like everyone else, and their requests would get exactly the same kind of review as anyone else’s.)
Was it ALEXNOSAL (again) that said that people ought to forget the ‘unelectable’ labels and vote for the candidate of their choice? I said that during the primary, when I’d read some inane comment(here) that ran, roughly, ‘I really like Kucinich, but I’m voting for ___, because Kucinich is unelectable.’ ‘Do you really want the corporate media telling you who is worth voting for?’ I asked. By the voting results, I’d guess the reply was a resounding ‘YES!’ (Utter indefensible stupidity, in a primary.)
Of course, Nader hasn’t a chance. I don’t think he’ll be a ’spoiler,’ either.
Vote for peace now - refuse to buy anything.
Bush is getting his blow jobs from Rice. That’s why she always looks like she’s ready to throw up all the time.
I SAY GO GO RALPH! YOU PUT IMPEACHMENT ON THE TABLE SO US HUNGRY AMERICANS CAN EAT!!
We’ll never convince the corrupt congress to impeach in time. If we the people do not set up a Peoples’ Tribunal to impeach Bush/Cheney, it will never happen. They’ll leave office scott free, and the next president will assume the same unconstitutional path as Bush/Cheney. The US congress no longer represents the interests of the majority of the American people. It only represents monied interests. If it represented the majority we would have had a sound national health insurance system decades ago like the rest of the advanced countries. We are run by a cynical oligarchy, corporate and governmental, which thinks that the American people will never rise up again against them. Just look at the CEO’s of the major corporations who are paid obscene amounts of money, hundreds and hundreds of times more than the average American salary. They see nothing wrong with this and feel they are entitled to all that money. They think the American people will continue to put up with this sort of thing, but maybe with the price of gas skyrocketing finally the American people will wake up and see how they have been had. Meanwhile we should all support Nader.
Ralph, you’ve been a hero to me since the days you took on General Motors and other “Establishments of coruption” but you’ve forgotten (tho I share your dream of impeachiment of these “men” crimes against Humanity) that the American People have a lame duck Congress that is you need 2/3s majority to get these…How this for a dream, after they have been found guilty, they’re sent to that little island in Cuba for 20 years! But yes, IMPEACHMENT CAN’T COME QUICK ENOUGHT!! Come on Americans that still believe in your US CONSTITUTION & Bill of Rights, get these two to account before November, 08!
Don’t you guys and gals get it? Impeachment is not going to happen. Presidents, present and future, want to do as they please. Accountability is a no-no.
Politicians have worked out your Constitution is full of holes. They’ll leave it that way. Why wouldn’t they? They’re only human.
And if you’re going to talk the talk, why don’t you walk the walk?
P.S. If you want to create a popular website check my blog!
Dennis Kucinich led 126 members of the U.S. House of Representatives in voting against the bill that allowed the invasion of Iraq. He also sponsored a bill to impeach Cheney.
ascott: Gore didn’t stand up for himself? Let’s see: my memory tells me that he went all the way to the Supreme Court - which is how they came to be able to appoint Bush. Where would you have wanted him to go from there?
Progressives wanted Gore to go from the Supreme Court to the people, of course. Gore could have encouraged the people to march in the streets, but he didn’t. Gore was serving the elites all along, and encouraging the people to put the elite interests before the people’s interests.
If leaders are not going to lead the people to serve the people’s interests then what good are they to the people? The current crop of Demoks are carrying on the same old sorry tradition. Do the people need more rule of by and for elites?
Impeach em Ralph!
This is my second appearance today, rare for me. I do not wish
to banter back and forth with those who want to make a chat
room out of this (you all know who you are and you DO have
that right).
It is indeed therapeudic. I have a friend who tells me that
my getting all wrapped up in what goes on in daily politics
and all that is wrong with the world is bad for my high blood
pressure.
I personally maintain that what is bad for high blood pressure
is stress, and it is only stress IF you keep it all in. So,
I feel that if I sound off like the rest of you, it’s good for
me healthwise.
So, in closing, after scanning some comments that appeared
before my earlier one in the vicinity of noon today, and some
that have appeared since. The whole rehashing of Gore/Bush
in 2000, Nader’s influence, what could have been Kucinich’s,
In other words, all the coulda, woulda, shoulda ain’t worth a
hill of beans.
Face it, there will not be an impeachment of Bush and/or Cheney
much less any war crimes trial. If you want to see one, go
watch “Judgment a Nurembourg” the next time they show it on
TV. It just ain’t gonna happen.
The best we can hope for is that there are enough people out
there who’ll show up at the polls and prevent John McCain from
being elected in November. I don’t believe that there are but
I pray to be proven wrong.
musicmarc May 24th, 2008 6:11 pm
“I SAY GO GO RALPH! YOU PUT IMPEACHMENT ON THE TABLE SO US HUNGRY AMERICANS CAN EAT!!”
Bit late for the hungry Iraqis
Thank you Ralph Nader for all you have done, and are still doing.
By the way, do any of you remember who Gore’s vice president was? (hint - Lieberman)
Common dreams commenters run the gamut, but I find the Nader basher’s comments calling him egotistical and his previous presidential bids as being responsbile for 8 years of Bush foolish, silly, and contrary to basic beliefs of progressive values.
Why don’t you read Nader’s positions on issues before you make such claims. Then, if you don’t agree with it, then so be it.
Just another unrepentant Nader supporter wanting peace, justice, and human rights for all.
About once a month we have a thread here at Common Dreams where most of the comments are triple threats, humerous, sensless and comical. This one should make the top ten list.
This just in:
N.H. Rep. Betty Hall’s resolution to impeach Bush and Cheney passed at the N.H. Democratic Convention on Monday by a Division floor vote of 110 to 88. This should carry quite a bit of weight when she brings HR24 (the Petition to impeach) back to the N.H. Legislature for discussion. (HR24 was tabled April 16 and despite coverage at the time, tabling does not mean it is dead. A simple majority, not a 2/3 vote, can bring it back). Furthermore, The Newbury Resolution demanding accountability, reconciliation and to indict Bush and Cheney passed unanimously [at the convention]. By passing both resolutions, the N.H. Democratic party is asking for investigations to begin immediately.
Nader is saying what needs to be said. He has a platform and is using it. More than those nattering nabobs who keep pointing and screeching, “Nader’s not pure, Nader’s not pure.” Jerks.
Ralph Nader is Lebanese. That’s about as far away from Israeli as you can get and still be on television.
http://republicansforimpeachment.com/
KEM PATRICK
and add this to it:
forget all this impeachment baloney; it’s not going to happen.
despite the fact that russia is not a european union member state, they have just won the ‘eurovision song contest’. all well and good; they are a ‘bordering’ european state. (but that’s no excuse) what i want to know is: how come israel, that lies thousands of miles away from any european state, or has any ‘official’ member association, was competing in this ‘prestigious’ event?. (i use the term ‘prestigious’ loosely - it’s on a par with american idol)
i believe there is more chance of impeaching israel for their subterfuge in gaining access to the ‘eurovision song contest’ than there is of impeaching your president……………..shame.
Corporate media make the candidates viable to the sheeple, regardless of quality (Ex. Reagan’s idiotic policy proposals). Nader, being against corporate control of public business, has never been given media approval and thus cannot ever become a serious candidate-despite being the best (most populist-progressive) and brightest candidate. If Ralph were a serious candidate, he would get my vote again as well as the funds I do give him now.
listen to what Nader says.
think.
THEN… react.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-holtzman/testimony-to-the-washingt_b_43269.html
Nader is the only REAL Democrat in this race and one might assure oneself of this by reading his positions at votenader.org.
As to:
KEM PATRICK May 24th, 2008 1:01 pm
“Yes he took money from the Republicans and yes he received 97,000 votes in Florida in 2,000 and Gore lost Florida by 537 votes. ”
But Kem,in the 2000 election 2 million registered democrats voted for Nader, nationwide, while SIX million of them voted for BUsh
“If Gore had won in Florida he would have been our president instead of Bush. Thank goodness we didn’t have a damn Democrat in that important office again, look at the mess we were in with Bill Clinton. Bush fixed that mess up real good. ”
Of course, Kem, if Gore had carried his own damn state he would have won the White House. If he had used Clinton in the campaign he could have been our President….
“So I don’t understand why so many here admire him, because so many here at C/D hate the Democrats. Of course Obama is not really a Democrat, he’s for US, it’s OUR time and he votes the same as McCain on almost every issue. ”
But Kem, you’lle never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public, according to PTBarnum anyway. Many apparently prefer the overblown and empty rhetoric of the centrist Obama who pretends towards progressivism while wholeheartedly embracing globalism, who speaks about one damn speech in Chicago in which he spoke , in small part, against the war in Iraq. A speech, by the by, that is not recorded in full anywhere and is not remembered by the two hundred in attendance that day as they were impatiently awaiting the guest of honor, Jesse Jackson.
Oh and Obama has voted, as has McCain and Clinton too, for every damn funding bill for that war….Ralph Nader gets my vote yet again!
Someone asked “Won’t Nader f*ck up the election again this time?”…..That is like asking if moving the furniture on the deck of the Titanic might have kept it from sinking.
How does one spoil an election that is rigged to begin with? Rigged??? How does that happen? Start w/ en electoral college that is made up of “appointed” members picked by the gov. (R or D) of the state. Second be sure to make the voting machines proprietary to the corporations that own them and if the corporation’s executies are promising the knuckle-head in the White House that he will deliver his state it will make life much easier. Third, be sure you have friends on the Supreme Court involved in some way to w/ the elections (say a son or daughter works on the campaign) so that when the recount gets disputed you have “official” people willing to subvert the elections from those who participated in it. And lastly, be sure the voting public does NOT educate themselves to the point where they will actually DEMAND from the two-party candidates plans to how they are going to un-do the f*ck-ups that the current knuckle=head in the White House has created!
RUN RALPH….RUN……..
The one thing we can’t do is let the corporations tell us who is a ’serious candidate’. If you do that, you’ve ceded control of your government to them.
That the corporate media does not consider Mr. Nader a ’serious candidate’ should be a big plus for him. That is if we had voters with enough sense to know that constantly electing candidates who support corporate interests over their interests is an incredibly dangerous policy.
The very first rule should be …. “Never vote for a candidate you see often on TV.”
Meanwhile, here’s Obama doing his bit to prop up Bush and Cheney and keep them in office. By law, if we were still a nation of laws, they should be gone. The key purpose of impeachment in the Constitution is to make sure that a President doesn’t grab powers beyond what he’s supposed to have under the Constitution. That’s the reason this key check and balance is there.
So, here’s Obama from 2007 doing his bit to prop up Bush and Cheney and make sure they finish their term.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-06-28-obama-impeachment_N.htm
Gives you a good comparison of the candidates. Who’s on our side. And who is not.
“In a normal republic I would probably have raised an army and overthrown them.” Gore Vidal
i believe there is more chance of impeaching israel for their subterfuge in gaining access to the ‘eurovision song contest’ than there is of impeaching your president……………..shame.
coco,
You may be right, but it’s our call on this side of the pond. If you have any ideas we haven’t considered, we’re all ears.
“It’s our call on this side of the pond”. ___ Cute ~Youisyourself~.
It’s OUR call on THEIR side of the pond too, where we kill thousands of innocent mommies and children and spread deadly radioactive dust and cluster bombs all over THEIR land.
~COCO~ gives us lots of very decent comments, that’s because she is obvioulsy so decent. ___ Smart too, so keep you’re ears peeled.
Hi there ~ARDEE~ I’m sure McCain will be pleased with your Nader vote. Hey, I agree with you totally about Gore losing his own state and lots of other states. He lost. Had he won his own state hwe would have been the president. NO argument from me there because that’s a fact.
This is NO sensible argument either. ___ If Nader had stayed home and not recieved 97,000 votes in Florida, Gore would have won th eelection. That is one isssue, the fact Gore lost his own state is another issue. Keep them seperate, because they are seperate issues.
Elect a new congress would be the legal way. A congress with as few Republicans or Democrats as possible. It would be too late to solve the problem of the runnaway Bush Administration, but it would solve the problem of a Congress that doesn’t represent us and won’t fulfill its constitutional duties.
Never vote for a candidate that is often on TV is a way towards that.
If you want another good reason to not vote Democrat, just listen to them when the name Nader gets mentioned.
Of course, the bigger problem they had in Florida was that I think it was 300,000 voters who called themselves ‘liberal democrats’ voted for Bush in 2000.
Besides, the election was rigged. Remember the smirk on Dubya’s face when he was interviewed from the hotel room that night. He knew he wasn’t going to loose. If Nader isn’t there, K.Harris and J.Bush just tweak another 100,000 votes. The failure of the Democrats to effectively challenge that stolen election just shows how unfit they are for office.
The bottom line is this. The Democrats have to find some way to con voters into voting for candidates that don’t represent them. All this noise about Nader is just more of this.
If the American people were to start voting for candidates that actually represent them, the Democratic Party would fold. So, they have to find a way to con everyone into continuing to vote for their Wall St funded candidates. This is just one way they do it.
These people are not on our side. Stop Electing Them!
Everybody, well a Huge portion of the United States population anyway, many congress persons are crying for Bush and Cheney to be impeached except for PELOSI!!!
She’s Suppose to be a leader!!
Toss her cookies out!!
Kem,
Are you answering for others now as well?
I have had several positive and warm interactions with coco and others without your having to referee. I must’ve missed your coronation…
Oh, and my handle is iammyself, unless you’re addressing the ether out in cyberspace somewhere.
My three-pronged approach for saving our country:
(1) ANYBODY BUT THE TWO PARTIES
(2) DON’T SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
(3) STOP PATRONIZING THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA
IAMMYSELF/KEM PATRICK
well sorry to disappoint you both but i haven’t any ideas. i once suggested ‘citizens’ arrest, but was shot down in flames with some legalities or other(read excuse for inaction)………brattleborough have done quite a lot in seeking justice and i believe one of their residents marched to washington ………..i wonder if he made it back.
now we have mr. nader calling for impeachment. but being on the other side of the pond, i really don’t know mr. nader from a bar of soap and really don’t care who he is. but he stood outside the white house with a ‘handful’ of supporters seeking justice. a handful…………..is this all the support he could muster? a man brave enough to state all the crimes committed by your president/vice president. a man whose name i have heard only mentioned a few times here during these manic few weeks of presidential nominees. where were all the posters/bloggers of this site who have decried the practices of bush/cheney et al? and who now hail mr. nader as a saviour. how come he stood there with a ‘handful’ of supporters? i don’t profess to be up to date with american politics by any stretch of the imagination but i haven’t noticed any other candidate calling for impeachment. correct me if i’m wrong. anyway, it’s all a hype, just like any other election in any other country………………may the best man win. (but i still maintain it will be easier to impeach israel)
coco,
I take your point. I don’t know what country you live in, but should I assume that getting rid of a head of state is easier there?
Yes, the U.S. has a byzantine system, and the people are cowed. Hell, here in the state of Maine (as Maine goes, so goes the nation…pshaw!) a handful of us are fighting the Real ID act - a fascist act if ever there was one. As you can surmise, people here are dumbed down. But…people everywhere are basically the same - we all want to live our lives in peace. However, the bastards won’t let us. So, a few of us fight.
I believe in tending to my own back yard first, so don’t tend to tell others how to tend theirs. I know, after 52 years of knocking my head against a wall, that I have little moral ground to stand on unless I’m doing what I can to right things where I live. I also know that people are basically the same everywhere. I would even hazard a guess that you have some troubles in your own back yard. Yes, the U.S. has it’s nose where it doesn’t belong (I grok, Kem), but you should realize that there are people here who ARE trying to fix things. That we are pissing against the wind needs no confirmation by anyone elsewhere. What would help is to give us some advice if there is any to be had. Or, maybe you could send us a Guido Fawkes who could blow up our congress building (said with tongue in cheek).
This is an open forum ~IAMMYSELF~ So if you want to have a private converstion with someone do it, If you or I post comments here they’re subject to replys from anyone. Don’t like it, don’t comment.
Yes, my liege.
Are you REALLY 72?
Yep, and I was unaware this was a private site for Americans only. If it is I apologize, cause I’m not the king here. Never pretended to be, in spite of your unfounded assertions. You over 12?
If I understand Kem’s post, apparently, it is only the 97,421 Nader votes that cost Gore. Not the dems who voted for Bush, nor those some 17,000 Jews who voted for Buchannan, (remember them?) nor even the 16,102 who voted for the Libertarian candidate. And what about the 2,274 who voted for the Natural Law Party or the 1,378 who chose the Constitution Party candidate or those who voted for “Other”, all 3,027 of them? Why aren’t you pointing your finger at them? Why is it only Nader??
My guess is that you believe that a Nader voter, without Nader in the race, would have voted for Gore. But let me assure you, that I would never have voted for Gore (although I was not a Florida voter, I would imagine my feelings might have been shared there). Dave McReynolds was on my ballot and would have gotten my vote if Nader hadn’t been running.
There seems to be some kind of proprietary interest in others’ votes, by some, that says your vote really belongs to someone else and that you are stealing from that someone else if you don’t vote for him/her. Such thinking is not democratic.
Nader is not a politician, therefore it is not his job to run for senate. If he is the only decent person in the state of Connecticut, then, what does that say? Anyway, there was Lamont, and look what happened to him. And there are 90 senators, who is listening to them now?
I believe that Nader uses the only platform available for him to get out his message, to some extent, through the MSM. That there is only one platform and that it is available only once every four years is a shame (on us not him).
Thank you Ralph.
Of course we know that the mainstream candidates from either party are just bullshit-they are not going to take us anywhere but we’re not going to pretend that Nader is going to come out of his air-conditioned limo to fight the grand fight are we? Up in the jungle of the outback waiting to descend into the beltway wearing his camoflouged fatigues with a carbine slung over his shoulder ala Fidel-I like his ideas but unless he starts the revolution how in the fuck is he going to come to power!
rfkolbe,
“Didn’t Ralph take money from Republicans during his run in 2006?????”
Actually, as I recall, Nader received somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3,000 dollars. I’ll bet Hillary has received a hundred times that from Republicans so far, just in the Democratic primary races. I’ll bet Obama receives *millions* from Republican contributors during the race.
But . . . . Who cares? I hope Nader takes as much money as he can from the Republicans, and has enough money to give voice to Democratic and Republican corruption, this time around. After all, there is little difference between the parties. Nader sure isn’t going to get any help from Pelosi or the DLC, that’s for sure. Why don’t you internet over to Cindy Sheehan’s site (she’s running for Congress) and make your own contribution, while you’re at it.
Now a question for you: did you know the Democratic Party conspired to keep Ralph Nader off the ballot in a number of states last time around? Obviously, the Democratic Party is comprised of . . Democrats. Yes, live, breathing Democrats who lead the Democratic Party. Now, what do you have to say to that, my friend?
coco,
I was not trying to infer that you shouldn’t have opinions of our state of affairs here, just that there are actually quite a few here who have been trying for years to get Bush impeached. I have written letters to my representatives and newspapers. Others have done other things. Nader does what he can. The state Democratic Party in New Hampshire has called for impeachment in its state convention. Several municipalities around the country have done likewise. For every action the people take, the criminals in the White House take ten against us. It may have to come to armed insurrection, but it won’t happen yet.
I honestly don’t know what people in other countries expect. What would they do? What do they do? I’m interested in knowing.
Vot Nader. Accomplish nothing w/ your vote. Then blame the Demecrats when congress is hobbled!
Relax, will ya? Very few here are going to vote for Nader, and all the posters here constitute an infinitesimal block of voters anyway.
Vote for who you want and let others do likewise. It seems more like democracy that way.
Yes ~4thefuture~ , that’s my opinion about the Nader votes in Florida. It made the difference in a big way. Had Nader not been on the ticket in Florida Gore would have won in spite of the Jewish vote and all of the other votes cast in every state.
For example: There is an aircraft crash, there are many individual factors about the cause of the crash. If any single one of those factors had been different, the crash would never have occurred. It starts with a missing cotter key on a nut, that alone didn’t cause the crash, it was a contibuting factor.
I don’t blame Nader for Gore’s loss. Nader was ONE contributing factor and if it had not been one, Gore would have won. What is disturbing is, Nader didn’t help anything and his campaign served no useful purpose, he knew he could not win and he should have been well aware that he might be a spoiler and insure Bush did win. He raised issues, he could do that without being a spoiler. I like Nader personally and appreciate many of the things he has done, but not everything he has done.
Muhammand Ali was the world champion boxer..I always rooted for him because of his pure style. He was always ready, highly skilled, and the toughest man there was for that time.
As for Nader/Gonzalez (Indep) they too have that kind of purity…that is: they know right from wrong and they try to live it.
I guess it could be said there is just about 3 kinds of people that live and work in any society: the great, the good, and the awful. You have probably seen the awful, they disrespect just about everything that is good. As for the good, they respect the great. And the great…they go down in history alongside the good.
I will root for the pure to landslide the awful in 2008.
–this is NOT an endorsement by/for/or from Muhammand Ali–
wild
.
IMPEACH both BUSH and CHENEY………….NOW
Then hand Bush and Cheney and the rest of their NeoCons Gang over to the International War Crimes Court for Trail !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.
Please do tell us where to begin.
In 2000 when 6 million Democrats voted for Bush/Republican and 2 million voted Nader/Green…the numbers say it was the Democrats that voted for Bush… not those that voted for Nader that won Bush his seat.
I had left the party back in the early 90’s when I (a member Executive Committee of the local Democrat Party) realized that even on the local level that the Democrat Party leadership infighting and split was between corporate liberals and middle of the road conservatives of the party (money makers) with little if any input ALLOWED or CONSIDERED from the progressive/environmental/leftist/labor/community activist members (worker bees).
Transportation…energy…trade…the wars…the economy…health care…. only a political S&M fetish devotee fixated on the late 20th century would seriously continue to vote Democrat or Republican!
For doing what the Democrats will not, I will do everything I can to persuade everyone I know to vote Nader. Bush is a war criminal who is being allowed to finish his presidency.
Nader continues to pound away at the out of date, change preventing 2-party system. I hope to see it destroyed in my lifetime. Can’t wait.
Wow, and holy shit. I never knew that about Nader ~Mikepeters~. You’re right.
You think Nader has a chance of winning ~Usrcjp~? Or are you another who wants to see McCain win?
Ralph Nader demonstrates what it means to take one’s duty as a citizen seriously. Ralph Nader has dedicated his entire life to defending the interests of the public against the big companies. Unlike so many disrespectful posters here, Ralph Nader isn’t just talk, he has been off his ass and doing something about it for years.
To the illogicals: it is the number of democrats who vote republican, the independant swinging votes, and fraud, that determine the winner, not Ralph Nader voters. That is crystal clear and while pointed out ad nauseum by many you still keep saying that, much like Cheney and the shrub keep treating as true something already shown to be false. So stop already.
Nader spoke out against the war before Hillary or Edwards.
Obama wasn’t even in the US Senate for the 2002 resolution so I’m not sure why people continue to claim he voted against the war. But he did vote for the funding, and says that he would increase the defense department budget.
Three years later impeachment is still off the table by Obama, Hillary, Pelosi, and most of the democratic representatives.
From the article by Ralph Nader and Kevin Zeese in the Boston Globe dated May 31, 2005
“THE IMPEACHMENT of President Bush and Vice President Cheney, under Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution, should be part of mainstream political discourse.”
see whole Nader article (as mentioned above) http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/05/31/the_i_word?mode=PF
Coco: It is extremely easy to find out about anything, including Nader who is a very important figure in the US. Google it.
Gore lost, get over it. Nader will cost Democrats the White House again in 2008 and it serves them right. Obama and McCain are corporate whores, Americans are finally waking up to that fact.
VOTE NADER. VOTE SHEEHAN.
Nader’s impeachment march at the White House is bizarre.
Over the past 3yrs, he did support impeachment of both Bush and Chheney - but mostly only in articles and press releases. Armchair support, you could call it. During these same years, Conyers and others in congress got hopeful impeachment momentum going several times, only to have it piddle away each time for lack of enough people closing ranks behind it.
Each of these times, Nader never made any big effort to mobilize all the citizens groups and legal orgs (which he’d organized over the years for other public causes) to get behind impeachment — when it could’ve made some difference.
Now, when it’s clearly too late to get any further start-up momentum going on this issue, Nader suddenly appears at the White House in an almost laughable press gesture, with only a few people in visible support.
Is Ralph just getting old and nutty? Or does he have some hidden plan whereby soon, another more useful shoe is supposed to drop?
I dunno. I still respect many things he’s done — but in presidential politics he seems to be more screwed up each time around.
Well put ~JAYBONES~.
Hey Demoks, keep funding the war, keep impeachment off the table, keep pushing voters toward Ralph!
Dim Patrick and the other blind fools, the Dem cool-aid drinkers on this board can’t stand Nader because he exposes Democrats for what they are: confessed Bush’s co-conspirators.
Nader is doing the job that Democrats were elected to do but are too corrupt and dishonest to do it.
thank you ralph nader for drawing more attention to the obvious, our government has been run by corporate pirates masquerading as patriots.
mr nader you are a true patriot.
which is why i wish you would help the green party capture a handful of congressional seats in 2010. it doesn’t have the glamor of being the leader of the vessel, but it would ensure that green views would receive more attention (-instead of the scant attention 3rd parties receive every 4 yr election cycle-) , as the green legislators crafted bills and supported progressive legislation w/ their liberal democratic brethren.
why haven’t the greens captured any congressional seats in the past 15 years?
acquiring congressional seats in progressive districts seems like a more ‘realistic’ task. herculean tasks (3rd party presidency) that are unachievable only decrease morale after the inevitable loss (and the banter that follows - ’see how foolish the general public is’-).
of course a green victory in a congressional race would radiate enthusiasm for green ideas at a time of environmental crisis, green house reps would also put real political pressure on the democratic party.
a dem victory in November could bring huge gains in the congress, which gives the greens more breathing room (an opportunity to more realistically capture dem votes, when people are less fearful of the outcome -like the election in ‘96).
i admire your tenacity and willingness to draw america’s attention to social injustice again and again….i just wish you would reconsider your tactics. if i changed my mind my ‘protest’ vote would be for cynthia mckinney….
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Thom Whaley May 24th, 2008 4:11 pm
“He chose not to run, in his own state, against Joey-the-jokester-Lieberman. In his silence, Ralphie refused to fight where he might have made a difference. What a shame that he didn’t have the courage to wage a real fight with honor.”
precisely…
vote your conscience…
…peace….
Arrest all high-ranking military officers and secret service operators (past and present) for war crimes and other treasonous acts!
Bush and Cheney will quit! (So will everyone else.)
Tell Nader to get a brain transplant!
Everyone else plant an indigenous fruit or nut bearing tree to celebrate the end of war and lies!
Hey Tetti_Tatti - Don’t be so snotty.
I voted for Nader more than a few times for exactly the same reasons you and others condemn the Dems. Okay? So we happen to agree on that.
But that doesn’t mean that Nader hasn’t become a political screw-up as a candidate. He has. And the evidence that he has, is not deniable.
If Nader was serious about running this time, and if he were thinking clearly, common sense says he should’ve, at minimum, announced early and done his damndest to unify the 3rd Party Left.
Many of us who agree with his policy ideas and love his honesty simply no longer see him as a competent prez candidate. Herer it is at the 11th hour, and the minor part Left is just as fragmented as ever!
Nader stood a chance, more than most well-know pregressive outsiders, of unifying much of that Left under Green or some other 3rd Party banner — and don’t tell me he tried to: He didn’t lift his finger in this respect, this time. He hemmed and hawed till the last minute, and then out of the blue decided stupidly to run as a Independent. Please try to figure out what that’s stupid — if you can.
There’s a difference between being an A-1 policy thinker (which Nader definitely IS) and a half-way competent political candidate (which Nader is definitely ISN’T.)
We progressives can still love and respect all his other virtures, but we can’t afford let his personal idiosyncrasies keep the honest Left fragmented and weak, election after election. We need some visible figure who at least TRIES to unify the Left — and THEN runs. And that person is sure as hell [now] never gonna be Ralphie.
IAMMYSELF
i honestly don’t know what they would do. i haven’t lived in europe for over 25 years, so my knowledge of their politics is non-existent and i haven’t lived where i am, long enough to know the people well. i’m a foreigner again……….my reasoning about israel stems only from reading comments on this web site and judging for myself that the situation looks hopeless.
the vast majority of people nowadays are struggling to lead a half way decent life. we’ve all been conned by the corporations/politicians and we’re in too deep to rise above the stranglehold they have on us. short of civil unrest i cannot see a way out. until people are starving i doubt that will happen. i for one realised a long time ago that voting was a waste of time………………..
What’s the chance of Ralph getting a seat in the presidential debates? It’s all about elite coporate masters in this country and until we can clean the temple of moneylenders, nothing will change. I am not sure short of complete chaos (euphemism) will this happern.
As for pontificatinpapa comment concerning too much stress when pontificating on the politics of today, it’s just that stress and the anxiety that comes with it that motivates people to change to feel better. The apathy that we see today does nothing.
At least someone still has guts and can tell right from wrong in that country!
short of civil unrest i cannot see a way out. until people are starving i doubt that will happen. i for one realised a long time ago that voting was a waste of time………………..
coco,
Well, we’re seeing your first two points already around the world. Civil unrest has its place, but things are not bad enough in the US for it to come to that…yet.
Voting may indeed be a waste of time. Someone once said that if voting made a difference it would be illegal. Probably true. However, voting does make a difference within the margins, and it’s important to not make the margins any worse at least. Well, that’s my opinion.
I think what really matters, what really works, is the work of the millions across any nation who try to change things for the better in whatever way they can. Other than military juntas and the occasional popular revolt, this is what changes societies. Wouldn’t we rather have peaceful change? Of course, there was the “velvet revolution” in Czechoslovakia, but I’m not aware of how that came about (though, I do seem to remember that the Internet had something to do with it).
I guess what I’m saying is that it’s easy to pile on and keep heaping doom and gloom on a situation, but when has that ever changed things for the better? I’m not a polyanna, so don’t think that all we have to do is hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but please know that there is real work being done by real people. Will it be enough? Who knows. But it is being done. What isn’t helping is all the sniping here on Common Dreams. I’ve fallen into the same trap - it’s so tempting when everything seems to be turning to shit. That, and the tendency for progressive to eat their own makes for a seemingly hopeless cause. It isn’t hopeless, but it is dire. In spite of that, many of us are doing what we can. If anyone can suggest a more effective way, I’d love to hear it.
Nader will not take any votes away from the Dems because every time he runs he gets only a fraction of the votes he got the last time he ran.
He has run for president since 96 but now he only gets vocal support from those who already hate all Dems except Dennis but he sold out too by not becoming a Green just like Ralph.
So if you think you will teach the Dems a lesson by voting for Nader, party on!
He gets ten times the support on this thread then he got at his rally in front of the White House….
It is not that lots of people don’t agree with his issues, it is that they know a wasted vote when they have already seen one over and over again…. and the corporate world loves to see important issues look weaker and weaker.
———
from http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/24/nader.politics/index.html
“Nader, who turns 74 this week, complained about the “paralysis of the government,” which he said is under the control of corporate executives and lobbyists.
Obama also criticized Nader earlier this weekend. “My sense is that Mr. Nader is somebody who, if you don’t listen and adopt all of his policies, thinks you’re not substantive,” he told reporters when asked about Nader’s possible candidacy.
“He seems to have a pretty high opinion of his own work.”
Obama said Nader “is a singular figure in American politics and has done as much as just about anyone for consumers.”
“I don’t mean to diminish that,” he said. “There’s a sense now that if someone’s not hewing to the Ralph Nader agenda, he says they’re lacking in some way.”
Responding to those remarks, Nader called Obama “a person of substance” and “the first liberal evangelist in a long time” who “has run a good tactical campaign.” But he accused Obama of censoring “his better instincts” on divisive issues.
—————–
So I say,
Yes if the majority of voters agreed with Ralph and voted for him he would have a chance to win, but even The Sheeple know when they are gettin fleeced.
But I am glad that he is running anyway.
What I don’t get about Nader is with all these progressives ready for change, why can’t he lead ? Why does he always wait for the last minute to do anything ? It’s almost as if he wants change but doesn’t want the responsibility, waiting until the 11th hour ensures that. I can’t figure out why else he does things the way he does. This is my biggest concern, he may be a great person, but that doesn’t necessarily make him a great leader. A president should be both. Obama’s got just the opposite going on, he seems to be a great leader, but his personal ethics worry me.
scheiber6923 May 25th, 2008 8:56 am
Obama’s got just the opposite going on, he seems to be a great leader, but his personal ethics worry me.
I’m curious - what about Obama’s personal ethics worries you? Not that I think he’s as pure as the driven snow, but I do wonder what others know that I don’t.
I agree with iammyself’s comment where we do seem to eat our own young, ?inborn error.
I am not sure what the answer is either but I know we will have to fight for the change we want, not just politically but also in blood, sweat and tears. My thoughts run to the fact that the military/industrial society has grown to such an extent, it has left common sense and most of the peoples, animals, and the earth behind, often in ashes. Either the rich and powerful will prevail, with the common folks as indentured servants/consumers/paid mercenaries, or this system implodes and we return to an more human way of living, in peace with nature. We probably need to return to a simpler way of life, and we need to control world population growth (hopefully not by wars and famine). I foresee a movement of large groups of people forming smaller self sufficient communities, energy independent, producing adequate food, sharing resources and talents, and protectiong each other, with trade between these city groups. This will go against corporate and government entities presently in control, and the fights will be major concerning land use, water supplies, taxes, and control of proprietary food products. Already the corporation are sending in SWAT teams against farmers to keep control of the market and staple grain seeds.
Any other thoughts out there?
He lies a