Suppose someone in the North Korean government released a false story that shifted a key American election. If Bush were negatively affected, we might be bombing Pyongyang by now. But this just happened with what Hillary Clinton called "NAFTAgate" Without it, she might never have won Ohio, or her margin would have been minuscule. But as a Canadian Broadcasting Company story reveals, practically the entire story was a lie, one that played so central a role in Clinton's Ohio victory as to thoroughly taint any claim she raises about a swing state mandate.
As the Ohio primary approached, Obama was steadily closing what a month earlier had been a 20-point lead in the polls. He pointed out that the NAFTA trade agreement was a centerpiece of Bill Clinton's term and that it cost massive numbers of industrial jobs. Instead of creating a trade-fueled boom, NAFTA helped hollow out America's industrial base, with over 200,000 manufacturing jobs disappearing in Ohio alone since the 2000 election. Even Republicans I talked with while calling the state just before the primary made clear that they thought it was a disaster.
Given these sentiments, Hillary chose not to defend her husband's actions, but instead claimed Obama was distorting her position because she'd privately opposed the agreement at the time, had "long been a critic" and now similarly supported stronger labor and environmental standards. Echoing her reinvention on the Iraq War, these claims were flat-out nonsense. As David Sirota points out, she'd praised NAFTA repeatedly in public settings from the time of its inception, even praising corporations for mounting "a very effective business effort" on behalf of its passage. And as Obama highlighted their contrasting positions and approaches on this and other issues, he was gaining in the polls.
Then, on Feb 27, the Canadian network CTV reported that even as Obama was publicly attacking Bill's role in NAFTA, and arguing for a drastic overhaul, he'd had key economic advisor Austin Goolsby arrange a meeting with the Canadian ambassador where Goolsby reassured them that this was all just "political positioning," pandering for campaign trail. The likely source of the anonymous Valerie Plame-style leak was right-wing Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Chief of Staff, Ian Brodie, and US media jumped all over it as proof of Obama's hypocrisy. The Canadian embassy denied the story and Obama also said it was false. A follow-up March 3d leak then sent a supposed memo summarizing the meeting to the major US media outlets, quoting Goolsby as saying Obama's statements were more "political positioning than the clear articulation of policy plans." Clinton made the controversy a centerpiece of her home stretch speeches and ads, saying "You come to Ohio and you both give speeches that are very critical of NAFTA and you send out misleading and false information about my position regarding NAFTA and then we find out that your chief economic advisor has gone to a foreign government and basically done the old wink wink, don't pay any attention this is just political rhetoric." She even ran a radio ad that misleadingly presenting itself as a news story, which concluded, "As Senator Obama was telling one story to Ohio, his campaign was telling a very different story to Canada."
John McCain similarly attacked Obama for the presumed contradiction in his stand, saying ""I don't think it's appropriate to go to Ohio and tell people one thing while your aide is calling the Canadian Ambassador and telling him something else. I certainly don't think that's straight talk." The week before, key Clinton ally, Machinist's Union head Tom Buffenbarger used recycled language from ads the right-wing Club For Growth ran against Howard Dean by dismissing Obama supporters as "latte-drinking, Prius-driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies." He now attacked Obama again by saying, "Working families cannot trust a candidate who telegraphs his real position to a foreign government and then dissembles in a nationally televised debate."
These attacks unquestionably made a difference. They flipped voter perceptions on an issue where Obama should have had a key advantage. In 1994, union, environmental, and social justice activists were so angry at Clinton's staking all his political chips to pass NAFTA that many sat out that critical election, helping lead to Gingrich's win. Now Hillary Clinton ended up getting a majority the 55 percent of Ohio voters who expressed a sense "that trade takes jobs away," a majority of those worried about their family's economic situation, and a majority of union members, whom Obama had been winning in his recent victories. She won a 10 percent plurality in a state where Ohioans overwhelmingly picked the economy as the top issue. And she won overwhelmingly with late-breaking voters, the opposite of practically all of Obama's other campaigns. Most important, by casting doubt on Obama's integrity, the cornerstone of his campaign, they made him seem like just another hack politician who'd say anything to win. This gave the supposed scandal a likely impact in Texas and Rhode Island as well, even though NAFTA was less of a central issue there..
But as the CBC report and others make clear, the core of the story turned out to be false. The Canadian government contacted Goolsby to clarify Obama's position on trade, not the reverse. Although Goolsby did meet with Canada's Chicago consul general George Rioux (not, as was reported in the original leak, Ambassador Michael Wilson), there's no evidence that he ever described Obama's position as mere political posturing. Instead, Goolsby responded to Canadian questions by clarifying that Obama wasn't pushing to scrap the agreement entirely, but that labor and environmental safeguards were important to him. The memo was simply inaccurate, as even the Harper government now acknowledges after a firestorm of criticism by opposition parliament members, who've accused the Harper government of trying to help their Republican allies across the border by trying to take down the likely and stronger of the Democratic candidates. In response, Harper called the leak "blatantly unfair," pledged to get to the bottom of it, and said, "there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA."
Ironically, the day before the story hit American TV, Brodie told reporters questioning him on trade that "someone from (Hillary) Clinton's campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt. . . That someone called us and told us not to worry." But that never made the headlines and no one raised it in the campaign.
As Matt Wallace writes in the Daily Kos, "this scandal was manufactured out of whole cloth. Goolsbee said something consistent with Obama's official position--that he wanted protections added, but it wasn't going to be a fundamental change or revocation of NAFTA, and that Obama was not a protectionist. This was morphed somewhat going into the memo, and now the embassy admits they "may have misrepresented the Obama advisor." Even after the memo misrepresented Obama, the Harper government took it a step further and then leaked a completely fantastic version of the story to the press, in order to maximize the bloodletting."
The Harper government has now apologized for any interference in an American political campaign, but the damage is done. Clinton had other factors that benefited her this round, including pretty questionable ones. Her 3:00 AM ad echoed the worst of Dick Cheney and Rudy Giuliani. When asked if she'd "take Senator Obama on his word that he's not a Muslim," she left the door open to the right wing lies by saying "there's nothing to base that on. As far as I know." She just handed McCain his campaign script by saying, "I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002." These, taken together with a week of media framing that the respected Project for Excellence in Journalism described as overwhelmingly critical of Obama, and initial twenty five-point margins based on name familiarity and insider connections, also contributed strongly to her Ohio victory. Back-to-back sympathetic Saturday Night Lives shows (the first after the strike) probably helped as well, as did support from popular governor Ted Strickland. Clinton may even have benefited from Rush Limbaugh's exhortation to his listeners to cross over and vote for her to keep the Democrats bloodying each other up. But "NAFTAgate" was key. Without it her victory would have been non-existent or minimal. The nine delegates Clinton netted from Ohio can't be changed, but the salience of this lie casts into doubt everything she says about the lessons of this victory.
Paul Rogat Loeb is the author of The Impossible Will Take a Little While: A Citizen's Guide to Hope in a Time of Fear, named the #3 political book of 2004 by the History Channel and the American Book Association. His previous books include Soul of a Citizen: Living with Conviction in a Cynical Time. See www.paulloeb.org
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78 Comments so far
Show AllFolks-
If you agree with the logic that superdelegates should not overrule the will of the voters, you should think about taking a few minutes to send a letter like the sample one below. It has the potential to be a very powerful act of mass nonviolent resistance.
***
You may contact your Democratic senators and representatives at:
http://www.senate.gov
http://www.house.gov
Dear Senator XXX,
I am a registered Democrat and I've voted in every election since 1988. Should Senator Obama lead in pledged delegates and popular vote at the time of the convention and the superdelegates do not follow, I will stay home in November. No Democrat in any race will get my vote, and I will strongly urge other Democrats to stay home as well.
Please share this with your fellow superdelegates.
Thank you,
XXX
Bob K, the offensive photo has since been taken down but Keith Olbermann reported on it last week, as well as many bloggers, and I saw a screen shot of it myself.
Do you really think someone who has stooped to the sleaziness that Hillary Clinton has indulged in is a candidate Democrats can vote for with pride? For God's sake, she's praised McCain while slamming Obama! It would have been one thing if she had simply said she had the experience and leadership to be president and Obama only had a speech, but to also praise McCain -- that lost a lot of potential Hillary voters right there. When was the last time a Democrat in a primary fight PRAISED the Republican opponent?
As Randi Rhodes mentioned today, if she has so much experience, and she's such a great leader, 'ready on Day One,' why didn't she prepare for campaigning past Feb. 5th, why did she have to lend her campaign $5 million last month, and why did she have to 'throw the kitchen sink' at Obama? Her campaign had no strategy for what to do if she lost on Super Tuesday -- that's the kind of arrogance and hubris we don't need in the White House again.
If she wasn't ready for Obama in the primaries, what does it say about her preparedness for the emergencies that confront a president?
Win an election based on a lie?
Is there any other way elections are won?
I am sick to death about this Senator Clinton Bashing.
You NAFTA haters you could have been doing something about NAFTA from the GITGO . Just stop buying their products period?
Oh what is the matter do you like saving a buck. And where are you in helping those poor workers in Mexico ,get better paid and better Evironmental laws?
Blame it on Clinton! Look around you at the stuff you bought since Nafta Existied. Are you driving a Made entirely in America Vehicle? How about the shirt on your back?
Yesterday's meals all American Were They?
AH does it make you feel better blaming Clinton instead of your own self?
CHANGE lol What a joke If you are the people that wants Obamas change Yet you take advantage of things like Nafta today.
Imagine yourself being call everything Hillary has been call and still wanting to serve her country and you. I couldn't I believe I would take advantage of NAFTA and send truckloads of you to Mexico. I'll bet yopu would love it there lol
RE: - This NAFTA blowup wouldn't have happened if the media hadn't made it happen.
It goes further up than that. David Wilkins is the American Ambassador to Canada and a good friend of George Bush. It is his job to have a hissy fit every time Canada does something that impacts the US, but he doesn't seem all that concerned about NAFTA-gate. He is interviewed right away on March 8th:
http://www.cbc.ca/thehouse/audio.html
Clinton has decided long ago that it is best not to look a gift Trojan horse in the mouth.
RE: - Seems like you evaded addressing that issue neatly.
What do you expect from Bob K - it is his job and/or passion to promote Clinton and part of the job is not to address inconvenient issues. There are supporters of both Obama and Clinton here trying to show their candidate in the best light.
That said, there was something called the Clean Air Act that the Tories were trying to push through a few months ago that had nothing to do with improving air quality so the name of the vote can be misleading. Don't take the votes as anything unless you get to see the transcript of the Bill or Amendment.
Never go for McCain - believe me that there are things worse than Hillary Clinton and don't you guys figure that you have punished the world enough already!
There is no racist photo (or any photo) of Obama on Clinton's website, as Obama-hack RSJ claims.
However, here's an Obama photo published on CommonDreams. The text is worth reading as well.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/20/2648/
Who's the Republican in Democrat's clothing: Clinton or Obama?
See:
CANDIDATES' VOTING RECORDS COMPARED
Bob K. March 4th, 2008 2:10pm
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/04/7465/
It seriously looks like if Hillary runs, we get a Republican for our next President. Even if she wins.
greenerthanthou,
You do know about Hillary's FOXy sugar daddy, don't you?
Clinton started her political career as a Republican and has supported their positions all along. Given the nations health care to reform she designed a system absolutely unnaceptable to the majority of the people. A system the preserves bloated, for-profit health insurance companies at the expense of actually providing affordable care.
With NAFTA, the Clintons sent US jobs overseas to slave labor factories in China. The Clintons have always been lax on environmental protections and improvements as well leaving climate change to fester for sixteen years with no attempt at mitigation.
Given the choice between the honest republican, McCain, and a potemkin republican, Hillary, why shouldn't voters just go with the honest republican?
clinton has gone republiCON
clinton had pulled a Karl Rove
clinton has lost my vote
Bob K, I have already replied in this and other threads on CD to all of your BS that you insist on reposting ad nauseum (talk about a hack), ignoring new facts as you obliviously putter along, but are you denying that Hillary Clinton's official website ran that distorted Obama video I mentioned above? Seems like you evaded addressing that issue neatly.
Ohio is the other retarded child; Florida being the older one. Both can't count and make elect presidents against their own wishes!
OK, I do not like Hillary Clinton. But, geez, she doesn't control the media. The media is controlled by the same people who control her. And Obama. And McCain.
This NAFTA blowup wouldn't have happened if the media hadn't made it happen. And they had to make it happen because Clinton had to win these primaries.
http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-will-clinton-win-in-ohio-and...
This is all a dog and pony show, and anyone who thinks that the media is an unbiased source truly needs to research further.
Let's get away from what Obama or Clinton might do concerning NAFTA if he/she were to become President and look at what damage that either of them could have done in April if the last week never happened.
In April there is a SPP (NAFTA on steroids) meeting in New Orleans.
Before this happened, Obama was running on renegotiating NAFTA, in part because this issue was popular with the voters. Because of this, Obama would probably have shown up in New Orleans and spent some time walking in "solidarity" with the protesters because this would be what was expected of him - and would have probably gained him more support than shaking hands at some potluck supper. If Obama joined the protest, many of his followers who, until a week ago, would have walked on coals for him, would have also shown up in New Orleans to protest. Because Obama was there, it would have brought a lot of attention to a meeting which the Three Amigos (Bush, Harper and Calderon) would like to portray as a boring meeting which was more about diplomacy than policy - and would prefer that the lamb skin remain covering the wolf.
Before this happened, Clinton was running on renegotiating NAFTA ...
RE: - If you want NAFTA changed or repealed. Vote Green.
Who is running for the Greens and do they plan to be in New Orleans in April?
Neither one of these two will do a damn thing to change NAFTA if elected. Count on it. Hillary was part of the administration that shoved the thing down our throats in the first place, and Obama's campaign is funded by exactly the same Wall St money people who like NAFTA and make money from it.
And, if changing NAFTA is so damn important to the Democrats, where have been the fights in Congress from Dems trying to repeal or change it? Are we really supposed to believe that the Democrats signed this thing, provided the votes to ratify it, never did anything to change it or oppose it during the 12 years or so its been around, but now they suddenly oppose it?
Come on, some poll pointed out that people in Ohio know they've been screwed by this and are mad, and suddenly Ohio became important to the nomination, and then suddenly both of these liars started talking about NAFTA. Was either saying a damn word about NAFTA back when they thought Super Tuesday would decide the nomination and Ohio wasn't important? No.
If you want NAFTA changed or repealed. Vote Green.
Come on ... the key is, its all a lie. Every damn word either of them says is a lie.
Both are talking as liberal as they will ever talk to try to con the Dem base into supporting them. Both will turn hard to the right as soon as they get the nomination. Both will quickly disavowal anything said during the primary season.
But then, every bit of centrist talk you hear out of either Obama or Hillary during the general election is also going to be a lie. They'll both say anything and promise anything to be elected.
And then, once elected, suddenly you'll see 'planning' meetings for the 'transition team' to figure out what they are really going to do as President. You'll very likely see something very similar to 1992 where after talking in a very populist way about making the economy work for average Americans, the Clintons suddenly unveiled a plan where their whole economic policy was based on what Wall St and Rubin wanted. All the talk of the campaign was gone and forgetten within seconds of it being announced that they'd won the election.
If you see a Democrat's lips moving, you know its lying.
Excuse me 'ruscle': you are concerned about Clinton ruinging the 'Democratic brand' if she were elected? Are you kidding me. 'Democratic brand' is an oxymoron. The Democratic Party doesn't stand for anything anymore. It is gutless and craven.
RSJ should admit to being an Obama-campaign hack spewing Obama-campaign smears and spin. No lie is to low for RSJ.
RSJ has falsely claimed on these forums that Clinton voted for legislation which she actually voted against, that Obama voted for legislation which he actually did not vote for, and that Obama passed legislation that actually was not passed. Now he stoops to labeling Hillary a racist. That must be the Obama-campaign smear-of-the-day.
RSJ tries every smokescreen and dodge to avoid the fact that Clinton's voting record in the Senate is far more Progressive than Obama's. Compared head-to-head on twelve important issues -- including free trade -- Clinton voted the Progressive way 8 of 12 times, Obama 4 of 12 times, and McCain 1 of 12 times.
Looking at Obama's voting record, it's clear that he is a Republican in Democrat's clothing. Obama voted for the corporate-welfare Energy Act that was written by Exxon, Enron, Exelon and other criminal corporations after secretly meeting with Dick Cheney in the White House. Obama voted for the Republicans' profits-over-people, tort "reform" bill, which was opposed by every consumer, environmental and civil rights group. Obama adhered to Republican doctrine that "free markets" should set interest rates and government should not interfere, and voted against the Dayton amendment capping credit card interest rates at 30%. And of course, when supposedly "antiwar" Obama had a chance to vote to require the President to bring the combat troops home from Iraq (the Feingold-Reid amendment) he didn't vote for it.
RSJ doesn't want you to know how Obama has voted in the Senate because his voting record contradicts his campaign rhetoric and image. Don't be fooled.
See:
CANDIDATES' VOTING RECORDS COMPARED
Bob K. March 4th, 2008 2:10pm
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/04/7465/
As to lying to voters, the Ohio NAFTA incident is not the first. In Iowa Obama lied to voters that he had "passed" legislation requiring nuclear plants to notify government in the event of radiation release. His lie was two-fold. First, the legislation only "advised" the nuclear plants to notify the government (Republican doctrine calls for industry "self-regulation;" plus, the nuclear industry is a big Obama campaign contributor). Second, the legislation was never passed. In fact, it was never even voted on.
You can read an excellent account of that sordid affair here:
http://www.thisisby.us/index.php/content/obama__s_rhetoric_smells_of_nuc...
Clinton is in bed with McCain. On Keith Oberman she said only she and McCain were qualified to run the country. If Pelosi, Reid and Howard Dean had any guts they would have kicked her ass out of the party. But then again Pelosi swept impeachment off the table from day one.
Diebold is based in Ohio.
Kristina40 (March 6, 3:21pm), while you might be right that the fix is in and she's already been assured of the nomination, here are two other possibilities: Hillary has run one of the worst, most incompetent campaigns in modern history, spending $140 million dollars to lose 11 primaries/caucuses in a row. Since the deplorable 'below the belt' negative campaigning has worked to net her modest popular vote wins in Ohio and Texas, that's what she'll be doing until the convention, even if she's ultimately cutting her own throat by handing McCain his negative ads next fall -- who do you want answering the phone at 3:am: A man with military experience or a woman who gave a speech at a human rights conference in China? And she'll be flogged endlessly with that clip of her praising McCain as a war hero qualified to be president. Maybe that's because her campaign is all short-term gain, kind of like US corporations these days: Beat Obama now and figure out how to clean up the mess later. And if Hillary is even thinking about all the votes she's lost with her repulsive Rovish campaigning, I haven't heard of it.
The second possibility is that this is a Grand Strategy: She knows she can't beat Obama and his movement for the nomination, so she'll do the GOP dirty work for them, and 'bloody him up' enough so that McCain can beat him in November. Then, in 2012, she can make her big comeback as the party savior and Obama will be the persona non grata candidate who has already been defeated by the Republicans, if he ever runs again.
The one thing about the Clinton's is that they seem to have a hard time seeing themselves and what they do the way others see them. This is, among many flaws, the one that will be fatal for Hillary's campaign this year.
Lillulu (March 6, 7:18 pm), that's right, she keeps crying that the media is favoring Obama while she sticks in the knife and they help her twist it. The 'Tough Victim' candidate. Do you remember when she complained about getting the first question in the debates? A Talking Head on TV had a good answer for that: 'Real leaders always go first' -- too bad it wasn't Obama who made that comeback.
Cranky_Chatter (March 6, 3:09 pm), I've read several things that agree with your post. By the time MLK was assassinated in 1968, white labor unions and other groups were making King a national political force to challenge the status quo. (Does anybody seriously believe a loser and lame marksman like James Earl Ray could have pulled this off by himself?) J. Edgar Hoover was especially in a panic that King might have a major influence over the Dem Party. Hoover was also worried that a President RFK would start investigating the assassination of his brother and might carry through with JFK's promise, had he been elected to a second term, to fire Hoover from the FBI. In the summer of 1968 when he was killed after winning the California primary, RFK was the sure winner of the Dem nomination and would have rolled over Nixon in the general election. A shame many Americans still cannot 'connect the dots.'
Nice try, Jacob Freeze (March 6, 8:22pm), just to reiterate Learnfomthepast's posting with this story from the Toronto Globe and Mail, "NAFTA-Gate Began with Remark from Harpers Chief of Staff" that is posted here at Common Dreams:
"At the end of an extended conversation, Mr. [Ian] Brodie [Harper's Chief of Staff] was asked about remarks aimed by the Democratic candidates at Ohio's anti-NAFTA voters that carried serious economic implications for Canada.
"Since 75 per cent of Canadian exports go to the U.S., Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton's musings about reopening the North American free-trade pact had caused some concern.
"Mr. Brodie downplayed those concerns.
"'Quite a few people heard it,' said one source in the room.
"'He said someone from (Hillary) Clinton's campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt. . . That someone called us and told us not to worry.'"
The remark was actually about Hillary's campaign saying that her NAFTA rhetoric should not be taken seriously -- Obama wasn't mentioned by Brodie. Also, the Candaian Embassy in Chicago finally issued a press release, after the damage had been done, stating that Goolsbee had said nothing in private contrary to Obama's public statements on NAFTA.
Bob K, you should really just give it up. Your 'progressive hero' Hillary just posted a video the other day on her campaign website with Obama's skin artificially darkened and his features stretched to make his nose wider -- is she going after the Klan vote now? You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting this race-baiting hater.
Thank you Jacob Freeze, for pointing out what a load of crap Loeb's story is.
Despite all the spin, the fact remains that free-trader Obama lied to Ohio voters about renegotiating NAFTA while his senior economic adviser assured Canadian officials it was just campaign rhetoric.
(Sometimes I think that if Obama pulled out a gun and shot somebody on live television his staff would instantly spin that it never happened and if it did Hillary Clinton was somehow to blame, and then a few days later, we'd see a story on CommonDreams asking: Did Hillary pull the trigger?)
Loeb's obfuscation doesn't stop with the issue of Obama's economic adviser revealing his duplicity. He also falsely implies that Obama is less a free-trader than Hillary, saying that Obama had argued "for a drastic [NAFTA] overhaul" and had "highlighted" his "contrasting position" with Hillary on the issue.
Bull! The truth is the opposite. Obama is MORE of a free-trader than is Hillary. He has NOT argued for a drastic overhaul of NAFTA or any other free-trade agreement. And, the only "contrast" in their positions is that Clinton has been out front on the issue of renegotiating NAFTA, and has pushed Obama into "agreeing" with her (if only for political expedience).
Do you want to know where the truth really lies? Consider this. In September 2005 the Senate's leading anti-NAFTA crusader, Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, introduced an amendment that would prevent the U.S. from negotiating future NAFTA-like trade deals that allow "dumping" of products into the U.S. at prices below their cost of acquisition (harming U.S. farmers, ranchers, businesses, industries and workers). This was S.Amdt. 1665 to the 2005 Commerce Appropriations Bill, and the vote was taken on September 15, 2005.
Hillary Clinton voted for the Dorgan amendment, and Barack Obama voted against it.
It's easy to make campaign promises, but when it comes to renegotiating NAFTA Hillary Clinton's promise is backed up by her vote on the Dorgan amendment. Obama's promise is belied by his vote against the Dorgan amendment. It's fitting that his duplicity has now been so publicly revealed.
Doesn't Ohio have Diebold voting machines?
Come to think of it I think I'll become pro-Nader and anti-Clinton, not just pro-Nader. Since it will be my fault that the Democrats lose, I might as well just start campaigning against them directly. Just when I thought there was some hope of attracting my vote back to the party. Thank God I voted for Nader in 2000. I guess I am just another delusional Obama supporter. But since I have been attacked for 8 years because I dared to actually support someone outside of your ridiculous party I certainly can withstand the attacks that one gets from supporting someone in your party.
What amazes me is that Democrats have the unmitigated audacity to accuse other parties of being mean. What a joke that is.
WOW - come on Obama supporters don't fall for this crap as Mr. Loeb is confuscating the facts and throwing the 'kitchen sink' at Hillary for another 'bonehead' mistake by the Obama camp.
Read this story for a bit more balanced reporting on this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/05/canadian-pm-says-naftagat_n_901...
The facts are that the prime minister's chief of staff leaked to reporters that CLINTON was contacting them to say not to worry - but once reporters tracked down the facts they found the document proving that it was Obama's adviser that told the Canadians not to be concerned about Obama's rhetoric.
THINK - why would the conservative government of Canada want to help Hillary. If anything they wanted to point to her and heap on more nasty rumors to her allready struggling campaign. But Mr. Loeb would have you believe that those pesky minutes of the meeting are insignificant details.
No Mr. Loeb TRUST is everything.
<>
If the Prime Minister is seeking the first link in the chain of events that has rocked the U.S. presidential race, he need look no further than his chief of staff, Ian Brodie, The Canadian Press has learned....
...At the end of an extended conversation, Mr. Brodie was asked about remarks aimed by the Democratic candidates at Ohio's anti-NAFTA voters that carried serious economic implications for Canada.
Since 75 per cent of Canadian exports go to the U.S., Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton's musings about reopening the North American free-trade pact had caused some concern.
Mr. Brodie downplayed those concerns.
"Quite a few people heard it," said one source in the room.
"He said someone from (Hillary) Clinton's campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt. . . That someone called us and told us not to worry."
Government officials did not deny the conversation took place.
Ah yes, a vote for Nader is a vote for McCain. Well, so is a vote for Clinton. Thank God some of aren't that STUPID. Billary is now playing the race card and all the Rove dirty tricks. Why do they want back in so badly? Got some unfinished business or just a giant ego? I used to like and be proud to vote for Bill, but no more.
If the Clintons try to arm wrestle or steal the Nom while we are once again "convinced" that knowing they are lying and don't deserve it, yeah right. Wait till the disenfraised public attacks Denver!!! Tickets, anyone?
Look at all the sheople..where do they all come from..how can the sheople so easily be swayed from the truth...by lies and deception. this really stinks.. sheople..what are they feeding you?
I have no respect for Hillary clinton..so few redeeming qualities..more Bushlike, every day...If she is nominated..I'd say that if we don't stop supporting the democratic party and be hoodwinked one more day..we should all face the firing squad.
If Clinton wins the nomination I get to vote for Nader again. Just when I thought I might vote for a Democrat. Funny thing is that I voted for Clinton in 92 and have voted Green ever since. This year I told my friends that I would vote for Obama, even though he is flawed, if the Dems could get him nominated. I like him because he has done more to attract new voters than anyone in my lifetime. Clinton may prove to drive more voters away than anyone else.
Ah yes, a vote for Nader is a vote for McCain. Well, so is a vote for Clinton.
thank you paul loeb for filling in the blanks concerning the nafta/canadian govt rift.
I'll forgive the people of ohio for being bamboozled.However, i'm more concerned w/ the voters in california and massachusetts that somehow imagined clinton as the democratic candidate who would be best positioned to beat mccain. i was surprised by the CA/MA outcomes, had obama won decisively in those 2 states this would be over.
the fact obama did exceptionally well overcoming 20 pt leads by clinton in TX 4-6 weeks prior to the vote. that's amazing, and similarly in ohio - reducing her projected victory substantially. the fact obama is still in the race as an insurgent candidate is amazing (and he's actually winning). all that the results from 3/4/8 confirm is that the contest will go straight into the chambers of the convention in denver and the democratic party itself will have to come to terms with how to deal with the clintons (who,in my mind, currently melt into an image of bonnie and clyde ). i don't believe sheriff pelosi or ranger dean are really looking forward to looking hillary and bill in the eyes and telling them the sweet truth, it's over baby.
there are many maps out there concerning this race, examine the remaining contests, the amount of delegates in play - the splits rural/urban, black/white, young/old etc.. as obama has indicated we need to do the math. it's going to the convention.
this is the first US election since 1928 w/ out a incumbent or former VP/P in the race.
in 1912 t roosevelt walked out of the convention and took his supporters w/ him into the streets. he came in 2nd in the general. ultimately 3 US presidents (taft,roosevelt,wilson) competed in that election. americans went w/ wilson who guided us over protesters into war. but t roosevelt came in 2nd (the best showing for a 3rd party candidate in american history %30 vote). i believe IKE above is correct. obama has said he'll only run once (of course every politician says this) but if the presence of people in the streets of denver, coupled w/ the media attention of the world - obama will have the stage and could literally "reshape the course of american politics" (ala yeltsin) by running against his own party on principle (a civil rights lawyer, remember.)
this can only transpire if he wins both the popular vote and the pledged delegates. obama could run as an independent outraged at the undemocratic maneuvering of the DNC. international inspections of US elections would probably be mandated. i believe that for every person who voted in the primaries/caucus for obama, there are 5 more. obama's injustice incurred by the democratic party would motivate those 5/1 voters to participate in the general.... then they would kill him/ martial law....(but a change in course of USA???)..
obama claims mahatma ghandi and MLK are his heroes (both assassinated). its really up to him, but don't kid yourself by being so dismissive of messianic references. will find out in august.... see you there...
where are jimmy carter, al gore and john edwards???
obama needs to start providing names to the press on a regular basis... names of PAC's that are influencing clinton's policy positions and campaign, the names of corporate clients that are putting bread on her table (via her husband) and the nature of those transactions (as CD thankfully observed how canadian/american/kazakh interest all can be entwined around bill), and yes the names of people who employed bill/hill's daughter, for lots of money w/out requisite skill set, who were clinton's political campaign donors. it may be legal, but it demonstrates the nature of clinton's values.
continue to support sheehan.....
...peace.........................
the woman comes trailing clouds of mendacity. prez? really! then again perhaps we are so accustomed to a liar in the white house that anything else would give us an anxiety attack.
This ludicrous excuse for Obama's big lie about NAFTA distorts the main facts of the case, as reported with verbatim quotes from a consular memo in the New York Times...
Barack Obama's lead economic advisor told the Canadian consul in Chicago that "Obama's tough talk on the North American Free Trade Agreement is just campaign rhetoric not to be taken seriously."
Austan Goolsbee, who has been Barack Obama's economic advisor since Obama's Senate campaign in Illinois, told Canadian consular officials in Chicago that "much of the rhetoric that may be perceived to be protectionist is more reflective of political maneuvering than policy."
Obama's double-speak about NAFTA was revealed in a 1,300 word memo written by a Canadian consular official, Joseph DeMora, recounting a meeting between himself, Goolsbee and the consul general in Chicago, Georges Rioux.
The closing section of the memo specifically mentions Ohio:
"As Obama continues to court the economic populist vote, particularly in upcoming contests like Ohio, we are likely to see a continuation of some of the messaging that hasn't played in Canada's favour, but this should continue to be viewed in the context in which it is delivered."
So as Obama "continues to court the economic populist vote," we can expect to hear a lot more "campaign rhetoric not to be taken seriously," but it's "more reflective of political maneuvering than policy."
The only Canadian "denial" of this story is an anonymous source at the Canadian Embassy in Washington, who could not possibly have had first-hand knowledge of a meeting in Chicago between Goolsbee, Rioux, and DeMora, and even that pitiful source only says the memo may be mistaken.
The rest of Canada's reaction is regret that the story was leaked, creating the impression of Canadian meddling in a U.S. election.
No one in the Canadian government is directly questioning the accuracy of DeMora's memo, because DeMora and the Canadian consul Georges Rioux both took notes about the meeting, and they still still behind the memo.
Obama lied to the voters in Ohio about NAFTA, and got busted for it. All the rest is desperate spin from Obama partisans like Paul Rogat Loeb.
Just a question. If, in fact, this new version is correct, why, do you suppose, did the Canadian gov't. feel it necessary to contact Obama to "clarify" his position on trade? Why would the Canadian gov't. need to be reassured if he hadn't actually said something that could be interpreted as a willingness to undo NAFTA? And why would this very intelligent fellow have said something that could be so interpreted, unless of course he knew that that's precisely what the voters in Ohio wanted, indeed needed, to hear?
The "core" of the story may have been false, but I suspect the essense was true. Mr. Obama sold his critique of NAFTA so well to Ohio voters that the Canadians needed to be reassured. And, obligingly, he reassured them, which means of course that it was then the Ohio voters who became alarmed. The trouble with having a silver tongue is that sometimes you are a little bit too convincing.
Don't misunderstand, I am NOT a Clinton supporter. But NEITHER one has any intention of fiddling around with NAFTA, and if Obama had, as the author states, a "key advantage" on NAFTA, it would only be because he had, in fact, been better than Clinton in fooling Ohio voters into thinking he would do something that he had no intention of doing. I think the voters were well served in being enlightened in this area even if the details were a little messy.
Somehow I get the impression that the author is an Obama supporter, or at least dislikes Clinton enormously. We seem to be getting more and more heat and less and less light as this campaign progresses. Too bad. But I guess personality and presentation are all that's left when there is no difference in substance.
PS - I am NOT a McCain supporter, either.
Enough of Hillary's "35 years of experience". Bullshit.
She was First Lady of Arkansas for 12 years, and First Lady of the US for 8 years. That's 20 years of her "35".
If being the wife of someone qualifies you for a job, then I guess my wife is qualified to be a teacher, as I have been in the classroom teaching for 22 years, and she has never been a teacher!
Hillary has one 6 year term in the Senate, and is in the second year of her second term. That is it, besides being a lawyer in her early years.
If the election comes down to Clinton or McCain – I will vote for McCain. Though both he and Hillary are pieces of shit, at least McCain admits that he is a Republican.
Hillary Clinton is so desperate to win the candidacy it's pathetic. I didn't watch SNL last weekend, but I saw clips of it later. Why did they make Obama look like an ugly fool while they gave Hillary top billing and made her look better than she is? They say it got Hillary more votes. I don't know how dumb voters can get, allowing Saturday Night Live to affect who they vote for......haha
She tries to get the sympathy vote and plays the gender card to the hilt. I don't see Obama playing the race card.
Hillary has lost all my respect.
Hillary: Will maintain a presence in Iraq while minimizing American losses and maximizing the air war. Troops will tend to stay in their bases and she will try to stand back while Iraqis kill each other. She will hope to capitalize on the aftermath.
Obama: Obama will do the same but try, and fail, with diplomacy.
McCain: Will ally the US with the Sunnis to subjugate the Shiite, restoring the state of affairs during Sadaam, while placing the US with the winners. The Sunnis are more like USAns than the Iranians and their Iraqi surrogates. I don't see McCain doing things that favor Iran geopolitically like Bush does.
Just thoughts, because by the time anybody takes office, the situation will have been drastically changed by Frankencheney
Nader/Obama on a third party ticket? Would that be cool or what?
When Ohio and election are in the same sentence, I think voting machines and suspect fraud. However, Brad Friedman isn't screaming, so if the election was rigged, we don't have decent evidence of it. Yet.
If you haven't checked out his website, do so now: http://www.bradblog.com/. Brad Friedman is proof that the name Friedman is not as bad as Hitler or Stalin, no matter how much the late economist Milton or the commentator Thomas have led you to believe that was the case.
I don't like McCain and I don't like Hillary. I dislike Obama a lot less. I believe Clinton is the bosses' choice, McCain is second and Obama third. I believe that McCain thinks for himself and getting him to bend over will be harder than getting Hillary to bend over which she seems to do with great ease. That is why I wonder if McCain might not actually be the better choice if you plan to vote inside the system and you have Hillary and McCain to choose from. Anybody who looks worse than Clinton to Ann Coulter can't be all that bad. On the other hand, Coulter is a deadhead! How can that be? What does it mean?
If Obama is the nominee, I would be willing to abandon the Nader option, because there is a slight chance he might do some good. Naive? Could be. I really don't know.
I really don't approve of insulting people, even those running for office. But, jeez louise, I've come to see that this Hillary person is really,really bad.
FOR PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY WOULD RTHER HAVE A REPUBLICAN THAN ONE OF THE DEMOCRATS, THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT BROUGH YOU IRAQ. YES! THE ENTIRE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE MUST CHANGE BUT ONE HAS TO LOOK AT THE GREATEST POSSIBILITIES NOTHING IN LIFE IS PERFECT THAT IS CLEAR WITH PEOPLE WHO WOULD HELP MCCAIN TO THE PRESIDENCY!
The results in Texas and Ohio are consistent with the polls.
Why ask why? You're surprised?
Obama is on thin ice. The DNC powerbrokers get a lot of dough from the same contributors as the RNC. They know they can rely on Clinton to either lose, or continue the corporate-imperial agenda... while promising us all popsicles... as soon as we take our shots.
That's the way it's always been here. It's so much like that now, it's become a caricature of itself.
People generally get the type of government they deserve. If a majority of the American people are stupid enough to believe the lies, without bothering to check them out, then they will wind up with four more years (or possibly eight) of a president who habitually lies to them. And maybe this is indeed what they deserve.
This little episode only confirms that the woman really is a bitch!
The Democratic Party will promise you a chicken dinner tonight and eggs tomorrow for breakfast. You feel good hearing the news. It should all work out, except you just killed the chicken for tonight's dinner that was going to lay the eggs for morning's breakfast. No eggs for you.
What policies do you think the candidates will support? Who are they beholden to. It is not any reader of Common Dreams.
so sorry...
Kristina40: "Nobody in my household will vote for her either or they won't have a roof over their heads the next day."
Careful now, this sounds like voter intimidation ;-)
I like that comment Billary is Rove in a pantsuit!
I won't vote for her either and I've been a Dem my entire life. I'll vote Nader too and if that means a Prez McCain, so be it. At least he has SOME integrity.
And if that bitch unfairly steals the nomination, if the Dems are that stupid, they deserve to lose. African Americans and the young people will be infuriated and some probably won't vote at all.
Organized labor-driven Ohio illustrates the classic conundrum of the people's dependence on capital that is the "American Way". Ohio is worried about the economy so it votes for the best mafia-connected capitalist, Clintok, pretending this will somehow give the economy a boost and benefit the people. But this is a death vote for Ohioans because Clintok's capitalist mafia will continue to ignore the people, organized or not, and escalate the outsourcing of jobs until the cow of cheap foreign labor is fully milked. The people's dependence on capital equals chains on their legs. Organized labor is still in the straightjacket of the old "American Way" submission to capital. How much longer will capital rule over people?
Who was Hillary on the phone with at 3 am when Bill was getting a "Lewinski Special" in the next room..right under her nose??
If she can't "protect and defend" her own husband at 3am how can she be expected to protect and defend an entire nation?
Q: When don't exit polls matter?
A: When you live in a rigged dictatorship.
BELOW AN OPEN LETER TO BARAK OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN COORDINATOR.
In support of all those who shout here in vain against the Clinton scourge, against the Clinton camp who simply wants more of the same "failed policies of the past", in support who those who want change at any price because it can't be worse than these past eight years, nothing can, I submit a letter requested by the Obama's campaign director. It is an open letter to the super delegates. We all know that the entrenched congress is opposed to Obama and the will of America. We know the bought and paid media is nothing more than an establishment, corrupt, rubber stamp for government policies and afraid of their own shadows. They reflect this gutless country so afraid they might lose their next new car they would defeat any change agent more of the same stupidity regardless of the cost. They are afraid of change, which is necessary for global survival. I am opposed to the infrastructure of the Green party since the level of anarchy dictates against any real positive direction. Or for that matter a run by Nader, not enough charisma to attract sufficient voters, not that his message lacks importance. Hillary followed directly in the footsteps of Karl rove and George Bush and the republicrat from Connecticut, Lieberman her good friend.
Change is the only hope for this country and the world!
Dear Mr. David Plouffe,
Thank you for your request, although by e-mail. I am a visual artist, Filmmaker and global communicator. I have recently returned from Africa and work on both sides of the Atlantic in Europe. I know from my work that people for the first time in a long time are hoping for a change in America. Europeans believe that Barak Obama offers the possibility that America will once again join the global community. His stated environmental objectives create enthusiasm in those in other parts of the world.
There are some who believe that the democratic will of the people should be overturned by the presumption of power as in the super-delegate issue of the Democratic Party. This raises the specter of large-scale defections toward the Republican agenda by the youth vote, should the Democratic Party not align itself with the peoples democratic and non-militant direction. Should this occur it would affect world security and the issue of climate change directly. These issues are dependent upon radical solutions, which include global economic changes. Defection of democrats and particularly the young people-who hope for change and believe that change is necessary could possibly tilt the election toward the Republicans should the youth opt out. They would refuse to turn out for the Clinton camp.
Many fear that Obama may lose the election as a result of the strange electoral system and candidate approval mechanisms, felt to be undemocratic. This reflects the basic problem of what many think is a so-called Democracy in America where a win in the popular vote does not guarantee the change in direction of the country.
The Electoral College can make a change as we saw in the 2004 election which allowed Bush to take office; this renders the popular vote, void. The Democratic Super-delegate issue is a reflection of the absurd non-democratic American condition of the Electoral College. Should Barak Obama win the popular vote from America's Democratic caucuses, delegates and committed states prior to the convention I do not believe that he should accept second place as vice president, which seems to be the mood of the media controlled election process and spin jockeys. I believe that he should maintain himself as the democratically designated elected leader of the Democratic Party. Contrary to that hack journalist, Blitzer and his 'Dream Team".
Obama forced to that position should form a third party and run against both Hillary Clinton and John McCain. This would be true democracy in action but we all know this is a fantasy. People everywhere both in this country and abroad want change in the USA. Should that occur Obama needs a ready made party and given his environmental agenda the Green Party and others might supply the reasoning. However they are in such disarray and is probably an unlikely thought. His rhetoric suggests, that we must move away from the "failed policies of the past" if we are to save this world for future generations. However, his statement should show a willingness to take the lead in the conviction that he espouses.
Obama has stated he has run because the time is now not in the future. The changes needed, are as he puts it, "right now", not in the future and the perils of environmental collapse are approaching so quickly that we do not have the luxury of another eight years of "business as usual" which would be the Clinton way, before he could claim the office of president. Clinton knows that she can not win against McCain without Obama. To defeat Clinton and the return to the failed Bush methodology, she amply displayed to win Ohio with the politic of fear. Obama requires that he turn to a radical shift in campaign policy it necessary to win.
He is a populist candidate that has offered hope! He should continue that platform with the courage to take the steps necessary if the standard-bearer position is denied to him to effect party and changes in American direction. He should take this radical shift and direction, if necessary! By doing so he would serve notice to the Democratic Party that democracy is not lost in America should the first place be denied. The party is being prepared for Clinton to take the crown with the discussion now on the table for Michigan and Florida to vote once again. We all lose and the possibility of change and it goes down with her selection.
If Obama takes half the country with him to a third party we all have a chance. He believes that the failed policies of the past exist within the entrenched two party systems in congress represented by the Super delegates. The only way of preventing another move to those failed policies is not to allow Hillary Clinton to win by forcing Barak Obama to take second place. But does Barak Obam have that amount of courage to suggest this option, I doubt it, though I support the man. This would be the last hand to play and he should be discussing this in the back rooms of the party as Hillary is discussing, the two other states she covets for her crown.
This public denial by him of allowing super-delegates to determine the election would be a way of circumventing the second place the congress and CNN want him to accept. It would force the super delegates to reflect the will of the people. I heard one of the super-delegates speaking from Georgia. He was black and under examination by the press, it was clear that the position of many "super delegates" would be to overturn the national-will, regardless of Barak Obama taking the popular vote or the majority of delegates. "The failed policies of the past" has put the youth of the USA and the World in the present circumstances of possibly destroying their future and their life.
In the final analysis the USA did not rise to the level of intelligence and courage necessary by electing George Bush to office for two terms and I doubt that it will by choosing Barak Obama to lead. The media and the democratic establishment suggests the "dream team" scenario by supporting the status quo and have the temerity to think it can choose the way the people's choice will be suborned and thus nullifying the very democracy they espouse. The height of cynical belief. This congress has not dealt with Bush and Cheney for lying to the American people and Wolf Blitzer on CNN is the scourge of presumption and simply a clone of the establishment.
These policies, if continued will lead to chaos and the disaffection of the youth and could, by default, elect John McCain and with him a continuation of war for another hundred years. This is a moot point since thirty years remain before environmental disaster takes hold because that is the time we have left to make the radical shift in global politics, environmental direction and economics.
This is an open response from a European blogger. Included below:
Aggie67 February 16th, 2008 2:20 am 
I hope you Americans realize that we, in the rest of the world, are following these primary elections of yours with the greatest of interest. Whatever you do affects us so much. The election of George W Bush seemed to have been such a corruption of the democracy you hold dear, please don't let it happen again by your incessant bickering amongst yourselves. The world needs you to get back to REAL DEMOCRACY, so that we can all live a safer life. What we can't understand is why you don't seem to have "one man, one vote" It all seems to be based on which candidate has the most money, delegates and very strong lobbyists. Definitely not one, man one vote and the winner of the popular vote don't seem to win the election. Weird definition of democracy. 

Those jobs have been going since the 70s and NAFTA had very little to do with it. The people of Ohio sense this first hand and are not subject to the manipulation of some hoping to make short term political gains.
NAFTA did allow us to get energy from Canada and Mexico that we would not have had access to otherwise. That kept us less dependent on Middle Eastern oil, which has been a positive for U.S. trade. We may need to revisit NAFTA and rewrite parts of it, but it is not the root of all evil that some make it out to be and informed people know this.
Some choice - three Republicans running for president.
Rolling Stone magazine just endorsed Obama...
As for Clinton, the only thing she can do at this point is lose the election for the Dems. That seems to be her sole purpose for staying in. Either that or I've been right all along and the fix IS in and she KNOWS this is all just posturing and that she will be GIVEN the nomination. She's a vile, disgusting individual and I for one, will NEVER vote for her so long as there is breath in my body. Nobody in my household will vote for her either or they won't have a roof over their heads the next day.
Check this press release out for unmitigated Clinton sleaze and misdirection:
Clinton Aide Compares Obama to Starr
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
Thursday, March 6, 2008
"A top aide to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday compared rival Sen. Barack Obama to independent prosecutor Kenneth Starr.
Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said Obama's statement that he plans to be more critical of Clinton's record is reminiscent of the attacks the Clintons endured during the investigations in the 1990s......."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/03/06/politics/p09...
I'm with most of you above who'll never vote for Clinton, and I fear that many of Obama's younger (under 35) voters feel the same. The Democratic Party has a unique chance to bring younger voters into the fold as never before, but instead may end up losing another generation of voters. Shame on Hillary for not seeing this and getting out of the way.
When Rev King joined forces with the anti-war and labor movements... they simply shot him. That's my belief. There's so much disinformation regarding JFK (they resurrect and re-assassinate him periodically), but my personal belief is, as Stone asserted, he was not going to capitulate to the MIC, and presented challenges to the Federal Reserve bunch. When Bobby picked up the Peace Banner and made a go for the Presidency, HE, was killed.
Now, with the Internet, non-monied candidates can take the people's money in smaller increments and fund a campaign... an end run around the status quo.
Until they bring the Internet to heel, just as they've done with Cable Networks... WE represent an unprecedented challenge to THEM.
What do YOU think's going to happen, if someone not FULLY under THEIR control attains the White House?
Well, I'm convinced, personally, that you need to buckle up Dorothy because Kansas is going BYE BYE.
Forrest Prince, I'm with you - totally sickened in my gut by Clinton. I will never vote for her either. She's Rove in a pantsuit, that is all. So sad, so disheartening. The first woman who has a chance to win the presidency and it's Rove. I really do want to run away and just stop thinking about it. So many people don't understand and it makes me crazy. A friend of mine in a new agey type group actually wrote and apologized to me for putting me down for being so "emotional" about what is going on. She's starting to 'wake up' after all these years. Everybody is on their own evolutionary path when it comes to waking up. But right now EVERYBODY needs to wake up and demand our freedoms before they roll out The Ray Gun, gawd help us all. Make sure you don't wear contacts to protests, the microwaves might melt them to your cornea. Hillary, Billary, Shillary back in the White House. Unbelievable.
Good Luck , PaulLoeb ( good article)
My front page news is all how Obama is ready to ramp up the negative attacks on Bilary(well-deserved) but no mention or retraction of Canada problem.
By now it's obvious that the Clintons have no morals and that they believe any means, no matter how dishonest or reprehensible, justify the end they are determined to achieve.
If the democratic candidate is not Obama, it will be a lost opportunity for a change in the political direction of the US.
But if the Democratic candidate is not Obama, I will vote for John McCain. He may not be very bright, but at least he seems to have a genuineness and decency that Hill & Bill totally lack.
I am continually dismayed by Senator Clinton's remarks that Obama is all talk while she touts herself as "a fighter." We've had "a fighter" in the White House for 7 years named George Bush and we don't need "a fighter" anymore. Obama should spin Clinton's words like she spins his messages. He should say George Bush is a fighter too. And what we need is a listener. Which Obama says he is. A listener. And not a liar. Thank You.
I don't think the actual Ohio vote was manipulated--their new Secretary of State has been aggressively correcting all the garbage that Ken Blackwell initiated. But I do think that voters there and elsewhere are vulnerable to last-minute manipulations--which is all the more reason we need the person-to-person politics that gives them a chance to have conversations away from their TVs.
We also need to push the mainstream media to keep covering this story and not just treat it as yesterday's news. The manipulation is front page in Canada--should be front page here as well.
curmudgeon99 sez: "You would have thought Ohio voters would be too smart for Clinton tricks 'as usual'."
I've never thought any such thing. They're Americans, after all.
Ditto to what NancyH posted. I used to think I could vote for Clinton, but her smear tactics & support of the war
have turned me off completely. If Obama is not the Dem nominee, I will either vote third party or write in someone else.
The corporate media is a major troublemaker here. If the bloodletting lags, they throw more chum in the water. And it's no accident that they are colluding in the destruction of the Democratic party candidates.
curmudgeon, only 24% of Ohio voters have a college education, to a great extent the result of being an impoverished state. And people with only a high school education favor Hillary over Obama.
I didn't know about the exit polls. More vote count tampering? Not unexpected, considering it's Ohio.
kathyodat
I feel Clinton is a phoney -- Republican in dem clothing. If she wins the democratic nomination, I simply cannot vote for her. She is war hawk, and completely in bed with big corporate business. I don't trust her one iota. If she gets the dem nomination -- I'll vote third party.
now we know she's qualified...
I can't vote for Clinton. She doesn't stand for anything anymore. She attacks Obama because she can't win on her record, her "experience", her plans, her charisma, or any other way. The majority doesn't want to vote FOR her, so her campaign resorts to taking down the other candidate to win so they will vote AGAINST him.
People buy lies and hate. Why do you think we had two Bush terms.
It's sad, but she won't get my vote, ever.
Tex Shelters
Paul Rogat Loeb. why is the title phrased as a question? do you have doubts?
Clinton winning Ohio _was_ a lie. There was a 10% difference between the exit polls and the actual results. Yes, exit polls aren't 100% accurate, but they use them for a reason. They shouldn't be off by 10%.
Politics is so ugly. This country so desperately needs progressives back in control of government, and then Hillary Clinton goes forth and consistently poisons the well against the progressive movement. How can I in good conscience vote for her if she gains the nomination? This is making me sick in my gut.
If Obama is not the nominee come November, who the heck do I vote for, if anyone? The idea of Hillary Clinton occupying the White House fills me with despair. McCain? Despair x 1000.
When Hill and Bill actively campaigned for "independent" war monger Joe Lieberman against anti-war Democratic Party candidate Ned Lamont in the 2006 Connecticut senatorial race, the Clintons proved beyond the shadow of a doubt they are not Democrats.
Just as Karl Rove pulled W ahead of McCain during the 2000 Republican primary with his push polls asking voters if they would "vote for John McCain if they knew he had a black baby", the Clintons will do wahteve