Canada Places US, Israel on Torture Watch List
Canada’s foreign ministry has put the United States and Israel on a watch list of countries where prisoners risk being tortured and also classifies some U.S. interrogation techniques as torture, according to a document obtained by Reuters on Thursday.
The revelation is likely to embarrass the minority Conservative government, which is a staunch ally of both the United States and Israel. Both nations denied they allowed torture in their jails.
The document — part of a training course on torture awareness given to diplomats — mentions the U.S. jail at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba where a Canadian man is being held.
The man, Omar Khadr, is the only Canadian in Guantanamo. His defenders said the document made a mockery of Ottawa’s claims that Khadr was not being mistreated.
Under “definition of torture” the document lists U.S. interrogation techniques such as forced nudity, isolation, sleep deprivation and blindfolding prisoners.
“The United States does not permit, tolerate, or condone torture under any circumstances,” said a spokeswoman for the U.S. embassy in Ottawa.
A spokesman for Foreign Minister Maxime Bernier tried to distance Ottawa from the document.
“The training manual is not a policy document and does not reflect the views or policies of this government,” he said.
The government mistakenly provided the document to Amnesty International Canada as part of a court case the rights organization has launched against Ottawa over the treatment of detainees in Afghanistan.
Amnesty Secretary-General Alex Neve told Reuters his group had very clear evidence of abuse in U.S. and Israeli jails.
“It’s therefore reassuring and refreshing to see that … both of those countries have been listed and that foreign policy considerations didn’t trump the human rights concern and keep them off the list,” he said.
Khadr has been in Guantanamo Bay for five years. He is accused of killing a U.S. soldier during a clash in Afghanistan in 2002, when he was 15.
Rights groups say Khadr should be repatriated to Canada, an idea that Prime Minister Stephen Harper rejects on the grounds that the man faces serious charges.
“At some point in the course of Omar Khadr’s detention the Canadian government developed the suspicion he was being tortured,” said William Kuebler, Khadr’s U.S. lawyer.
“Yet it has not acted to obtain his release from Guantanamo Bay and protect his rights, unlike every other Western country that has had its nationals detained in Guantanamo Bay,” he told CTV television.
Other countries on the watch list include Syria, China, Iran, Afghanistan, Mexico and Saudi Arabia.
“If Israel is included in the list in question, the ambassador of Israel would expect its removal,” said Israeli embassy spokesman Michael Mendel.
The awareness course started after Ottawa was criticized for the way it handled the case of Canadian Maher Arar, who was deported from the United States to Syria in 2002.
Arar says he was tortured repeatedly during the year he spent in Damascus prisons. An inquiry into the case revealed that Canadian diplomats had not received any formal training into detecting whether detainees had been abused.
(Reporting by David Ljunggren; editing by Rob Wilson)
© 2008 Reuters
What a pity every single Blackwater mercenary who has killed an Iraqi isn’t in Guantanamo.. but then there would be no room for anybody else, would there?..
Re the last sentence of article..
How hard is it to recognise a bruise, or a distressed withdrawn human being??
How hard is it to empathise with another’s situation?
How hard is it to fracking care?
Lazy bastards.
The Photo above says it all.
Even though, it is staged we have seen these for real many times.
If such a horrible one ever existed in a North Korean or even Nazi POW camp,
It would have been in every documentary and propaganda clip we have ever seen.
The world is awakening!
Rachael Corrie should be smiling at this. Hope it makes a difference.
Omar Khadr has been there since he was 15 years old - and, as far as Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper is concerned, he can die there. Stephen Harper does favour the death penalty - always has.
The story of Maher Arar according to Hansard:
http://thomhartmann.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4061097651/m/3901028782?r=3901028782#3901028782
Although I do agree with the Canadian challenge of American human rights policies, Canada is hardly guiltless. Canada refused to sign the Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples passed by the United Nations in 2007. Canada continues to violate treaties with Six Nation Peoples by stealing land and resources. The Boreal Forest is being logged, Lubicon Cree lands are being cleared and for oil sands drilling,and Mowhawk lands are being violated for rail lines, highways, and residential and commercial development and uranium mining. Many of the Six Nations Peoples are forced to drink toxic water and live in toxic environments. Both the liberal and conservative governments share in the continuing genocide.
I see that Israel has locked down the population of Gaza. No food, fuel, water or medical care. A continuous bombardment by plane and tank and bulldozing all the refugee centers house by house and block by block.
The entire population must be down to drinking urine and eating wallpaper by now. This is no different than the horrors of WWII. I wonder if Anne Frank would be proud of the Jewish people now.
Since this continuing genocide is aided and abeted by the government of the United States the best that American citizens can do is to strive to bring their government down to it’s knees since it refuses to come to it’s senses.
If the shoe fits, America, wear it! Having said that, I agree that Canada is not blameless. Canada installed a Bush wannabe in power named Harper. Canada has also colluded with the US in rendition activities, and their attitude towards first natiopns peoples are as vile as the US government’s. Canada also wants to sacrifice one of it’s citizens on the altar of the US War on Drugs by threatening to deport one of it’s own citizens (Mark Emery) to the US. Deporting it’s own citizens to a foreign country? Canada is behaving like America’s bitch. Canada is right to label US a torturer, I’m not disputing that, but Canadians shouldn’t be so damn smug. People in glasses houses………
Well, a lot of people in a lot of nations have come to wonder about America and its policies of the 21st Century. Now Canada, too, in one official measure, anyway.
Electing another GOP white man after years of Gitmo might just convince others that ordinary citizens here have become drunk on our own “culture” stuff and gone over-edge stupid. Us now electing a left-leaning black or woman would signal the world that Americans intend to rejoin them in civility, rather than try to remain fugitives on the run from good sense.
This just came in the email.
Although I have been on to the Nazi/Bush connection since Big George wanted me to spy on my family around 1952, the research gets plainer every Day.
The Truth has it’s own power.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/263.html
And DD, you really should read-up on what your-Party intends to do upon ’seizing-Power’:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7693
[It might sober your ‘enthusiasm’/naivety, just a tad…]
Didn’t Canada deport an innocent man to Syria for extradoniary rendition? Wasn’t this person tortured in Syria? Anyone remember that case?
They’re all guilty and the enemy if they are brown skinned… right?
dcbeltway wrote: “Didn’t Canada deport an innocent man to Syria for extradoniary rendition? Wasn’t this person tortured in Syria? Anyone remember that case?”
Yes, and after he was released, Canada issued a formal apology and voluntarily paid him millions in compensation. Canada has also petitioned the US to clear his name, but he is still regarded as a terrorist in the US, and cannot cross the border to visit relatives there.
This to me points out some huge differences between the two countries. Yes, Canada is not without blame, but when was the last time you heard the US government apologize for ANYTHING, let alone voluntarily pay out compensation without being dragged into court?
dcbeltway wrote: “Didn’t Canada deport an innocent man to Syria for extradoniary rendition? Wasn’t this person tortured in Syria? Anyone remember that case?”
No, he(Maher Arar) was deported from JFK in NY during a stop-over by yer HomeLandSecurity, albeit with the complicity of the Canadian Government at the time. We have also been complicit in the rendition of at least 3 others, which are currently the subject of an inquiry.
The Harper Conservatives were elected with less than 40% of the popular vote, and do not hold a majority in the House, but rather hold the most seats of any one party. They can be voted down (ie a new eletion in 60 days) at anytime the Liberal Party decides… At least we use only paper ballots here, so the facists actually have to get the votes to win.
Our bestial Conservative side is fearful, greedy, reactionary, violent, thieving, torturing, murderous, superstitious, racist, hateful, mysoginist and sexually inadequate.
Those of us who favor our Humanist Liberal side tend to be brave, sharing, thoughtful, peaceful, honest, scientific, egalitarian, loving, considerate and sexually fulfilled.
Conservative Republicans torture with the okay from conservative Democrats. The conservative left has tortured as well as the conservative right.
It’s NOT ALWAYS Repubs vs Dems or left vs. right. But it ALWAYS IS conservative vs. liberal.
Exactly right Jan Steinman.
Canada made a mistake and did something about it with the case of Maher Arar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar
which vaudreee has been posting about also
and while Harpur is a conservative he also has supported Arar’s case
“Notwithstanding, Prime Minister Stephen Harper has vowed to continue to press the United States on this matter. On January 26, 2007, Harper rebuked Wilkins with respect to the Canadian government’s efforts to remove him from the U.S. watch list, stating, “Canada has every right to go to bat for one of its citizens when the government believes a Canadian is being unfairly treated.”[38]” (from wiki link aobut Arar)
……………………..
And there is a tv channel in Canada devoted only to the first nation and films etc about their culture. It is sort of amusing to watch Canadians try to say Canada also has problems with human rights etc…No nation is perfect but Canada is one of the best nations. ..but I hope those of you who are critical keep pushing for better human rights and environmentalism..etc. Without you it would be a much much worse world imo.
This is so funny. Obviously, Canada is not with the program. We can’t be expected to take Canada seriously until they can re-define torture at whim and suppress undesirable reports.
Jim Glover, MeAlsoToo, thanks for the links.
Colleen,
if you remember back in 2002, when Arrar was rendered, the conservatives were in opposition and had a decidedly different tone:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2002/11/19/arar021119.html
Stockwell Day (Harpers No.1 Lt) pretty much said good bye and good riddance… Just like they are saying about the Child Warrior (UN Definition), Omar Khadr.
Harper and his ilk will say anything to get elected/ stay elected.
Sorry, the link disappeared:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2002/11/19/arar021119.html
Gotta Get Off The Grid
I am no fan of Harpur and look forward to a new leader in Canada, but even he realized the injustice to Maher. The US is worse than Canada.
If the average people in the US ever really understood what is going on they would be very demoralized. I think they have some feeling that something is wrong, but no understanding of the enormity of how wrong it is. For me the torture of a completely innocent man is about the worst thing that a government can do. Maher, a canadian citizen, was taken in NYC by the US government and hidden from his own wife. No one outside of a few in the government knew where he was. It was beyond belief that the US could do something like that and the US courts will not deal with this terrible injustice. Words fail me to express my feelings about this.
I like to see Canada put together a terrorist list. Anyone has any doubt as to what country would be the first on that list?
Daniel David,
How about, Danny Glover, or Medea Benjamin? They sound good to me.
peaceman,
I find myself limited to those who are running, but there are a lot (lot) of people who would be better for our image in the world than another white male GOP type.
Once again we see how the USA is a shining example for the rest of the world to follow (or we’ll blow them up).
Our great leader said “We don’t torture”. He also said that Iraq could launch a chemical attack on the USA in less than 45 min and how they were a danger to the world. He also said that Iran is constructing nuclear weapons and how they are a danger to the world. He also said that we shall never rest until we bring Bin Laden to justice.
We’re the biggest bully on the block now. Our men in uniform rape and kill Iraqi citizens. The cops indiscriminantly blast our own citizens with tasers. The only way we can inflouence anyone anymore is with threats of violence or war. We have become a nation that the world is better off without and that is the scariest part of all.
Land of the free, home of the brave.
The Failure of the American Narrative.
Israel and Amerika; two belligerent countries worthy of public scorn and condemnation by any nation and and all humanity.
Kind of makes the right-wing Canadian government that has been sucking up to the U.S. since it took power almost two years ago look like a bunch of ignorant buffoons.
The great lurch backwards towards Third World status continues.
Such opinions as expressed in this and similar articles are vital in order to help strip away the comforting illusion that Americans and Israelis live in (and all their supporters in the world) - that they hold the moral high ground, and are justified in their brutality because of “terrorism” or “Hamas”, or “human bombers”, etc. People who coldly kill for expediency, and who torture, have succumbed to the evil in their natures, and they do it because they think they can get away with it. There are other more humanitarian methods available to deal with such problems. But some people just like to kill and hurt. Einstein said “It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man.”
Dear Whatfools,
I agree we are all fools if we in any way allow this to go on in our name. This means all kind of oppression, labelling others as other so that we can justify atrocity. I am thoroughly disgusted and outraged by the discussions in the US about what consitutes torture and what does not. This is pure demagoguery. We as a human species know and have explicitly defined what torture is.
I do take exception to the sentence: “I wonder if Anne Frank would be proud of the Jewish people now.” I would ask that you substitute Israel for Jewish people.
For anyone who is interested here is an essay written by our PM Harper in 2003 before he took over as PM:
http://www.ccicinc.org/politicalaffairs/060103.html
It is called “Rediscovering The Right Agenda” and outlines his neo-con strategy…
These are countries that can no longer be considered governed by the Rule of Law.
Think of Isreal how many times have Isreali agents been caught traveling on Canadian passports while on commission of an act of terrorism against some perceived enemy of that state? How many political prisoner in that country? Why is the Isreali nuclear arsenal above inspection by the UN? Actually Isreal’s transgressions seem endless. This is signal of a rogue state imo.
USA torturing will be dealt with, sooner or later the wheels of justice will grind out the bitter juice. Expiation of the USA soul will be accomplished via The Hague and the World Court. We hope that we will be alive to see that day. The citizenry of the USA will…
ezeflyer January 18th, 2008 2:14 pm
“Our bestial Conservative side is fearful, greedy, reactionary, violent, thieving, torturing, murderous, superstitious, racist, hateful, mysoginist and sexually inadequate.”
ezeflyer,
Oops, you forgot to include: Obsessed with power and control over everyone and everything! Otherwise, as usual, you’re right on the mark.
For the Canadian corporate government to have produced such a list of countries which torture, and not have their own name on it, merely exhibits them as the hypocrites that they are. I was tortured in the Innes Road detention center in Ottawa and the U.S. and Canadian secret services have been assaulting and poisoning me for close to two decades. I’m sure me and Maher Arar can’t be the only ones. And the only reason that the Canadian government paid Arar 10 million dollars was, since his case became public knowledge, so that he would begin to live the high life and gradually shut up.
Regarding Israel and terrorism, here is a link.
http://www.populistamerica.com/how_quickly_we_forget
Remember, in the US, by definition, you can beat me, attach electrodes to my genitals and charge them, pull out my fingernails, one by one, likewise my teeth. You can break my fingers, my arms and legs, you can haul me up by my wrists until my shoulders dislocate. You can waterboard me, put me in a cold room, a hot room, bombard me with rock music at deafening sound levels, isolate me in a dark room, force feed me, sic dogs on me, urinate on my holy books. You can do all these things and more because they do not lead directly to organ failure and death and that is the Bush regime’s definition of torture. It is not torture unless it leads to organ failure and death.
Now a Federal Court has ruled that anyone caught, or sold by bounty hunters, winding up in an American Gulag is not a person, therefore has no rights and can expect torture as a matter of course! I believe the Germans had a term for that, untermenschen. Ask any Jew you happen to meet who has a blue number tattooed on his forearm about that term. He can explain it.
What a monstrous evil we have become in less than a decade!
As our alleged representatives have proved over and over that they are in collusion with these policies, and that they either ignore, or just offer lip service, to We the People when we demand that our Constitution and Bill of Rights be returned, intact and functioning, to the Halls of Government and the perpetrators of this evil be impeached, removed and tried, and since the elections are getting more fraudulent every time, with little or no investigation and remedy, I can only conclude that we shall go the way of Nazi Germany. Our ally in torture and repression, Israel, cannot be far behind.
GottaGetOffTheGrid
Harper said about liberals (from your link):
” It has become a moral nihilism - the rejection of any tradition or convention of morality, a post-Marxism with deep resentments, even hatreds of the norms of free and democratic western civilization. ”
This is ridiculous considering that the Bush administration has discarded civilized views of what is or is not torture and attcked the Geneva Convention.
The moral nihilists are the people who think might makes right…the neocons.
So do you think Stéphane Dion will win? and when will the election be? Wouldn’t it be nice if both the US and Canada had new leaders next year?
“I do take exception to the sentence: “I wonder if Anne Frank would be proud of the Jewish people now.” I would ask that you substitute Israel for Jewish people…”
I very-much agree. Some of the finest/most-Progressive people I ever met are Israeli AND Jewish (although none-of-them too very ‘proud’ of either, lately).
D&G — always glad to provide-links (and read your PoV…) — have you Clicked my Name?
As for the candidates…I’m a old/white/male/’GOP-type’, myself…and if Commenter’s here write in “MeAlsoToo” — I may just pull a bigger-percentage than Kucinich/Nader, combined!
GottaGetOffTheGrid said:
Sorry, the link disappeared:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2002/11/19/arar021119.html
Here it is, archived:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070525012017/http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2002/11/19/arar021119.html
Having read the link MEALSOTOO provided us, I have come to the conclusion that my previous thinking that there is a major money backed power behind the seens is correct. The jist of the article spells out and answers why, no matter what the public does, by organizations or whatever means, it brings no change, and the media doesn’t even print the facts no-matter how glaring they are. It all adds up to our position in the USA as voters, is a frontal illusion, because we are basicly led by the bought off media, and politicians to do what the power base wants. Everyone should read this link !!!! It clears up a lot of questions !!! Thanks for providing it !!!!
Well done. Israel and USA are the two rough nations in the world.
And ““The United States does not permit, tolerate, or condone torture under any circumstances,” said a spokeswoman for the U.S. embassy in Ottawa.” Kool Aide anyone?
Usually, on articles about the GWoT detainees and the related prisons and mistreament, and while these articles normally don’t even mention the worse wars, I emphasise the latter, or this difference (and question).
Not this time. The article is good news. Sure, Stephen Harper and his so-called govt are not good, but that’s something most people already know though. So that part also is not news, and what the article’s about is news and good, imo.
We just need these wars to be condemned by all countries, govts and peoples or populations.
It’s good news though, and Omar Khadr should’ve never been detained to begin with just for killing a U.S. soldier. Former was in his country being aggressed by the foreigner and his side. Even if the latter was still fooled by lies, then this wouldn’t make Khadr more guilty; he understandably and not ideally but still legitimately seeing the soldier as an aggressor. And that’s of course only if the incident really happened to begin with; a usual re/oc-currence with the Bush administration.
Harper has a minority govt, so the others will hopefully join on this ruling on Israel and the U.S.
“Under “definition of torture” the document lists U.S. interrogation techniques such as forced nudity, isolation, sleep deprivation and blindfolding prisoners.”
Good for Canada. Yes, these techniques are torture, and yes, we have seen them on TV, in the papers, and so on. So, the US tortures according to one of its best friends in the world. How sad for the Americans.
namoses, I note that you don’t blame Jews but Israel and so I thank you for that distinction. Israeli policy stinks to the moon. So does vigilante rhetoric.
What I really wanted to say is, remember in 2003 when people all over the country posted e-mail and Web apologies to the rest of the world for Bush’s re-election? Maybe we could do something similar appealing for a large international presence at the next election. If Canada can put us on a torture watch list, maybe other countries can put us on an election-scam watch list. It’s for their benefit as much as ours.
Thanks Gail. Authoritarian is the correct definition of conservative.
Other countries need to put the U.S. and Israel on the terrorist watch list, too. Other countries know more about the United States than Americans do.
GottaGetOffTheGrid regarding the Canadian Government says:”They can be voted down (ie a new eletion in 60 days) at anytime the Liberal Party decides…”
Since the Liberals don’t call for a new election I assume they are complicit in the “George Bush wannabe” concept of governing (an oxymoron I admit, maybe misgoverning would be the correct word)
www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.php
MeAlso Too: YouAlso Too take exception, as does Gabrielle, to the sentence: “I wonder if Anne Frank would be proud of the Jewish people now,” and support her asking that the writer substitute Israel for Jewish people. I concur. However, what you say next is unclear: “Some of the finest/most-Progressive people I ever met are Israeli AND Jewish (although none-of-them too very ‘proud’ of either, lately).” I don’t understand this - there seems to be a contradiction between you rightfully distinguishing between Israel on the one hand and Jewish people generally on the other, and then saying what you said about the people you know; if the distinction exists, which it certainly does, then why on earth would they be the least bit unproud to be Jewish? It seems that you’ve gone right back to where the person Gabrielle was addressing was coming from.
In a way I`m glad to see the US listed in the list where it belongs ,in the’” Hall of SHAME ” If our elected leaders do not have the guts to see torture and call it what it is,then we have a bunch of cowards acting for us. Be aware that the ignorant evangelical army is being played now by traditional politicians in the southern states, the same bunch of blind ignorants, uneducated god fearing fools that gave us George Bush are getting ready to come out again and vote to mantain another manipulator politician with hopes in the race to the white house, GOD have mercy on America. I recently learned about a declaration of independence by the Lakota-Sioux nation in the US{ www.lakotafreedom.com }check it out.
GottaGetOffTheGrid: Thank you for the interesting link to Stephen Harper’s article, which I found at the link you provided. One thing that is remarkably clear is that, no matter that I disagreed with his issues and positions, Mr. Harper is an intelligent, articulate and well-read man. These are words that could never be applied to our CO. ( CO being “Current Occupant” - Garrison Keilor’s name for Bush.)
After such buffoonery as is typically exhibited by our right-wing nuts, it had become easy to forget that there are such conservatives as Edmund Burke, whose ideas are odious but whose intelligence is above suspect. Having such moronic displays we have here, may have caused some of us to lower our guard against the more intellectual purveyors of conservatism. Your warning is much appreciated.
Thanks again.
Thank you Canada! I hope Switzerland, Sweden, Norway and every nation with a better than average human rights record warns their citizens to avoid contact with the USA. If tourism practically stops and aircraft avoid this country we may get some action. Lobbyists will pay the politicians to cut back on the torture a bit.
Money is the only thing the elite understand.
MeAlsoToo, I visited your site. Impressive. I’ll be reading more soon. Thanks.
The only reason that the opposition Liberals haven’t forced an election in Canada is that they can’t win a majority government the way things stand with the electorate.
Stephane Dion is unfortunately the wrong man to lead the Liberals at this time. He was the “compromise” candidate at the Liberal convention squeaking by 2 much stronger candidates whose supporters couldn’t stomach supporting each other. Stephane Dion has a flair for backroom negotiation and compromise, is an environmental movement backer, and supports a social mixed system (free enterprise and safety net). But he is not an inspiring figure to watch or listen to.
Also unfortunate, is that he is an obvious francophone with a strong spoken accent. This does not sit well with western Canada which holds the notion that the country is being held hostage to Quebec interests. Equally vexing to Quebec separatists, is that he is a staunch “federalist”. And so most Quebecers will vote for the “Bloc Quebecois”. His only naturaly constituency is Ontario, Canada’s true heartland, which leans for the most part socially and fiscally just right of centre.
Which brings us back to Stephen Harper who has been making significant inroads into Ontario by acting “Prime Ministerial” and doing little to upset most folks, all the while letting natural “branding” take place. The oligarchs in the media are only too happy to help him in his quest to consolidate power as he is their natural ally.
As things go in Canadian politics, Stephane Dion must be tested in a national election at least once more against Harper. Harper is betting that he will win over enough Ontario voters to make all the difference next time around. If he manages to form a majority government, he WILL implement his right wing agenda in 4 years of unimpeded law-making.
Current polls show that if an election were held today, things would remain much the same. And so, no change for the time being.
For your info, there is one other significant party in Canada, the NDP (New Democratic Party) which is the true left wing here. The NDP usually manages to get enough seats to force some issues. Not last election though…missed it by 1 seat.
I am wondering; if a defeat of the US occupation in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia will in any way secure our right not to be tortured? The US government just confiscated 233 acreas of Texas land to built an israeli type security wall against Mexico. Our favorite US planted isreali, Michael Mukasey and Michael Chertoff approved it. But no walls between fascist Amerika and Canada. Get your passport and run….
Hey otherwise! Thank you, sincerely, for your excellent summary of the current state of federal politics in our country. It clarified a lot of stuff for me better than anything I’ve read in the papers or Maclean’s.
Why did I know this wouldn’t be a report from an American newspaper?
Their editors cannot comprehend that this could be true, though it is.
Thank you, Canada, for highlighting the illegality that is U.S. foreign policy.
Go Canada! I moved to New Brunswick from the states and have not regretterd it for one second. You don’t smell the fear that permeates every aspect of American life. Don’t forget your duct tape and plastic sheeting. I never understood “we are fighting them overthere, so we don’t have to fight them over here.” It always brought chuckles when I envision Osama Bin Laden, and all of Al-queda swimming across the Atlantic Ocean to invade America. The only bad thing is that Harper came to power after I arrived. Hopefully he will be leaving soon.
msm starts to give news about Canadian concerns about US and torture
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/18/AR2008011803346.html
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hPBvYz2Z3r8LWVvNuZlMzPcD-ppQD8U8LTLO0
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/01/18/canada.torture.list.ap/?iref=mpstoryview
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/18/world/main3728128.shtml
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22732661/
It’s always nice to hear an obvious truth being stated from and official source. It just proves that it can happen. It hasn’t happened much from the people in our government though.
We know who the real state sponsored terrorist’s are. You will never hear it from our media or government though.
Do people here watch Washington Week in Review on PBS? Last night Martha Radditz did a white wash of the Strait of Hormuz incident with Iran and did not give the counter view thaht it was a planted story.
I hope people here are complaining about the poor reportage of news on other sites and I would love to see some posts here to join mine:
http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=396&start=195
“Martha Radditz certainly did not give a fair report on her topic, the incident with the Iranian boats in the Strait of Hormuz. And the other reporters knew it
The question is whether there are people in the US government who are trying to instigate a war with Iran and using a minor incident to start a war, much in the same way that the US was railroaded into a war with Viet Nam over the lies about the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
There have been questions raised about the source of the voice heard on the tapes of the Hormuz incident and it is clear it was not from the Iranian boats because there is no backround noise of the boat’s engines. That was discussed in articles in the NY Times.
Also some believe the incident was a planted story.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=40801
How the Pentagon Planted a False Hormuz Story
Analysis by Gareth Porter
WASHINGTON, Jan 15 (IPS) - Senior Pentagon officials, evidently reflecting a broader administration policy decision, used an off-the-record Pentagon briefing to turn the Jan. 6 U.S.-Iranian incident in the Strait of Hormuz into a sensational story demonstrating Iran’s military aggressiveness, a reconstruction of the events following the incident shows.”
Looks like Radditz works for the Pentagon and Washington Week supports the suppression of news.
Frontline should do an expose of Washington Week”
Never mind about posting at the Washington Week site. They may have some problems there…
Canada is assuming the US has told the truth about Omar Khadr’s guilt. There are been too many instances where prisoners were accused of crimes but turned loose after years of confinement and not charged with anything. Which makes the whole project going on in Gitmo suspect! I know our government says these are terrorist’s. But, I can’t help but wonder if they even know what a terrorist is anymore? Considering the fact, most of them have become terrorist’s over the years.
I used to watch PBS for un-biased news ; no more . What do expect when one of their corporate sponsors is Chevron?
Hey, Stephen Harper and all you other Bush-loving Canuks. How does it feel to be wiping America’s ass?
Our (Canadian) Minister of Foreign Affairs says today that this list will be (politically) corrected.
This is a government that is getting it done!
I agree with the sentiments ““I do take exception to the sentence: “I wonder if Anne Frank would be proud of the Jewish people now.” But I would substitute Zionists instead of “Jewish.” Zionists of the Hezyl type, who connived to steal the land off the Arabs,and erase them from Palestine. They have managed this genocide, continue this genocide and torture, with America’s ongoing aiding and abetting. Individual Jews have always been pillars, and exlempary citizens in our community. But most of these I believe still support Israel and its aims.
Bad news (and this in embarassing):
Torture manual wrongly includes allies: Bernier
Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier has distanced his department from one of its training manuals that lists the United States and Guantanamo Bay as places of torture.
“I regret the embarrassment caused by the public disclosure of the manual used in the department’s torture awareness training,” he said in a statement released early Saturday.
“It contains a list that wrongly includes some of our closest allies.
“I have directed that the manual be reviewed and rewritten. The manual is neither a policy document nor a statement of policy. As such, it does not convey the Government’s views or positions.”
Foreign Affairs used the manual as part of its torture awareness training — something that stemmed from recommendations in the Arar inquiry.
Besides the U.S. prison for alleged terrorists on the island of Cuba, the manual also lists:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080119/torture_manual_080119/20080119?hub=TopStories
RE: - Canada is assuming the US has told the truth about Omar Khadr’s guilt. There are been too many instances where prisoners were accused of crimes but turned loose after years of confinement and not charged with anything.
Omar Khadr (who was 15 years old when he was captured and the only child soldier in G that was actually tortured) has two things working against him - his famous father and Stephen Harper who likes everything American - including their “tough on crime” stance.
Maher Arar was under suspicion because he worked for the same company as Abdullah Almalki’s brother. Abdullah Almalki was under suspicion for once working for the same charity as Ahmed Said Khadr did. The fact that Abdullah Almalki disliked Ahmed Said Khadr immensely and quit the charity to get away from the guy did not seem to matter.
The late Ahmed Said Khadr is Omar Khadr’s father.
That Omar Khadr was a child soldier is beyond dispute (but that he was under the control of his father and did not have much control over this career choice is usually ignored). That he threw a grenade at a US soldier who, while a medic, was, at the time, a soldier engaging in combat, is disputable. Someone threw the grenade and Omar Khadr was the only one of those the US were shooting at that was still alive. There is a sense that this is bogus.
Omar Khadr comes up in Question Period from time to time and the call to bring Omar Khadr home is strong:
NDP CALLS FOR GOVERNMENT ACTION ON OMAR KHADR CASE - Time to bring Khadr home
http://action.web.ca/home/billsiksay/en_alerts.shtml?x=104368
Colleen, will check your links and get back here.
RE: - Stephane Dion is unfortunately the wrong man to lead the Liberals at this time. He was the “compromise” candidate at the Liberal convention squeaking by 2 much stronger candidates whose supporters couldn’t stomach supporting each other.
Out of the two, Michael Ignatieff is better positioned than Bob Rae to take over the Liberal leadership from Dion and Ignatieff, who supported the war in Iraq, will move the Liberals even further to the right. I doubt that appearing naked on prime time TV will hurt Rae’s popularity (he looked surprisingly good), but Rae is very unpopular in Ontario which is the stronghold for the Liberals. Rae is running in a bi-election (a mini-election when a seat becomes empty between elections) and I hope he loses to El-Farouk Khaki because Khaki, as an immigration lawyer and human rights activist, would make a very good MP.
MP=Congressperson.
COLLEEN’S LINKS
RE: - The 93-page PowerPoint document was inadvertently released to attorneys working on a lawsuit against the Canadian government; it was obtained by The Washington Post from an attorney for defendants at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The case of Omar Khadr, a Canadian citizen who has been held at the U.S. military prison for more than five years, has generated attention across Canada.
The idea that this was “inadvertent.” Let’s just say that there have been a lot of “inadvertent” releasing of information that the government wishes to be Private
RE: - “We find it to be offensive for us to be on the same list with countries like Iran and China. Quite frankly it’s absurd,” U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins told The Associated Press. “For us to be on a list like that is just ridiculous.”
Aren’t China and Iran on the list of countries who still have the Death Penalty?!
Oh, David Wilkins – he is on his way to becoming even less popular with Canadians as the guy he replaced – Paul Cellucci. Paul Cellucci has decided to use his skills in winning friends to help Rudy Giuliani on his bid to be President of the United States – he is doing quite well, considering …
“We’re committed to making sure our borders are secure and our country is safe. Will there be other deportations in the future? I’d be surprised if there’s not!” – David Wilkins commenting on the Maher Arar case
“You talking about regrets by the United States? The United States made that decision (to deport Arar) based on the facts it had, in the best interests of the people of the United States, and we stand behind it.” – David Wilkins commenting on the Maher Arar case
CTV – FOR QUOTES
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20050919/wilkins_arar_50918?s_name=idol2006&no_ads=
Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harpy will surely cave in to the American and Israeli Lobbys and cover up the truth.
The prisoners in Gitmo (and elsewhere) are shackled, wrists bound, hoods placed over their heads, three big MP’s — one on each arm and one in back of him; is all that really necessary? The little guy is all tied up; what do the U.S. military guards expect him to do? Turn into Superman and beat them to death? And why is a hood over their head even necessary? To make them feel like they’re suffocating or make them claustrophobic?
RE: “three big MPs”
Is that American for Military personal?
In Canada, MP stands for Member of Parliament
Our Conservative MPs are such bullies.
Many of the Interrogators were told that it was confirmed that the “detainees” were terrorists and that if they did not get information out of them more American soldiers would die. Some of these Interrogators had seen their buddies blown up and exhibited symptoms of PTSD already. A lot of the practices were sanctioned by higher ups and if a person was reluctant, the pressure was enormous to get into the role of torturer.
I think I read a statistic that at least 80% of the people in Gitmo were innocent and that many of the others were guilty of very minor infractions which had nothing to do with terrorism (petty theft).
This is the sentence that caught my attention:
“Under ‘definition of torture’ the document lists U.S. interrogation techniques such as forced nudity, isolation, sleep deprivation and blindfolding prisoners.”
My uncle served in the Korean War (1950-53) and I remember him talking about how angry he and his fellow soldiers were when they found out that the North Koreans were doing exactly these sorts of things to our troops in an attempt to brainwash them. Americans were outraged at this brutality, including my WWII vet father, and couldn’t understand how any nation could call itself ‘civilized’ and practice these techniques, which the NK also denied were torture, on our POWs. After the war, many wanted newly-elected President Eisenhower to demand that the North Koreans responsible be tried Nuremberg-style, but it never happened.
Imagine the reaction of the American people if Iran were doing this to our troops.
NateW wrote: “The great lurch backwards towards Third World status continues.”
It seems the Bush neocons are trying to drag us down even further than that. As Dr. Morris Berman said in “Dark Ages America: The Final Phase of Empire,” (Norton, 2006):
“We were already in our twilight phase when Ronald Reagan, with all the insight of an ostrich, declared it to be ‘morning in America’; twenty-odd years later, under the ‘boy emperor’ George W. Bush (as Chalmers Johnson refers to him), we have entered the Dark Ages in earnest, pursuing a short-sighted path that can only accelerate our decline. For what we are now seeing are the obvious characteristics of the West after the fall of Rome: the triumph of religion over reason; the atrophy of education and critical thinking; the integration of religion, the state, and the apparatus of torture — a troika that was for Voltaire the central horror of the pre-Enlightenment world; as well as, today, the political and economic marginalization of our culture…. The British historian Charles Freeman published an extended discussion of the transition that took place during the late Roman empire, the title of which could serve as a capsule summary of our current rulers: ‘The Closing of the Western Mind.’”
– http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Ages-America-Final-Empire/dp/0393058662
As has been mentioned, Canadian PM Stephen Harper’s conservative government is losing steam up in the Great White North, and he’s an untrustworthy Bush clone; he even used RNC strategies to win election. Seems he’s unpopular these days and will soon be gone; after Harper leaves office we may get the true story of what’s been happening in Gitmo from a new liberal Canadian government.
USA is being removed from Torture Watch Manual per Harper, manual will be rewritten without the US.
It is on the AP.
I think Canada is where I’ll run to if things keep up the way they have been going… There is a new indy flick coming out where the protagonist takes off for Canada and gets married after Bush defeated Kerry in ‘04. I think I’ll start brushing up on the Canadian naturalization test questions now…
The movie is called Blue State. http://www.bluestatemovie.com for anyone that’s interested. Has Anna Paquin in it, who is great