Who Is Killing the Women of Basra?
In Basra, Iraq’s second largest city, 2008 was ushered in with an announcement of the 2007 death toll of women targeted by Islamist militias. City officials reported on December 31 that 133 women were killed and mutilated last year, their bodies dumped in trash bins with notes warning others against “violating Islamic teachings…” But ambulance drivers who are hired to troll the city streets in the early mornings to collect the bodies confirm what most residents believe: the actual numbers are much higher.
The killers’ leaflets are not very original. They usually accuse the women of being prostitutes or adulterers. But those murdered are more likely to be doctors, professors, or journalists. We know this because activists from the Organization of Women’s Freedom in Iraq (OWFI) have taken on the gruesome task of visiting city morgues to try and determine the scale and pattern of the killings. According to OWFI, most of the women who have been murdered “are PhD holders, professionals, activists, and office workers.”
Their crime is not “promiscuity,” but rather opposition to the transformation of Iraq into an Islamist state. That bloody transition has been the main political trend under US occupation. It’s no secret who is killing the women of Basra. Shiite political forces empowered by the US invasion have been terrorizing women there since 2003. Within weeks of the invasion, these groups established “Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice” squads, which many Iraqis refer to simply as “misery gangs.” They began by patrolling the streets, harassing and sometimes beating women who did not dress or behave to their liking. Coalition forces did nothing to stop them, and soon the militias escalated their violence to torturing and assassinating anyone who they saw as an obstacle to turning Iraq into an Islamist state.
The Culture Card
Despite the clearly political nature of these killings, US media generally portray violence against Iraqi women as an unfortunate part of Arab or Muslim “culture.” For instance, journalist Kay S. Hymowitz has catalogued the “inventory of brutality” committed by men in the “Muslim world,” railing against “the savage fundamentalist Muslim oppression of women.” Hymowitz echoes a commonly held assumption, namely that gender-based violence, when committed in the Middle East, derives from Islam.
Of course, pinning violence against women on Islam is politically useful: it helps to dehumanize Muslims and justify US intervention in their countries. It also deflects attention from the many ways that US policy has ignored and enabled violence against the women of Iraq (like championing political leaders with an openly-stated intent to unravel women’s legal rights). But in fact, culture alone explains very little. All human behavior has cultural dimensions, but culture is merely a context, not a cause or a useful explanation for violence, whether in Iraq or anywhere else.
It makes much more sense to examine gender-a system of power relations whose number one enforcement mechanism is recourse to violence against women. There is nothing “Muslim” about that system, except that its Muslim proponents, like their Jewish, Christian, and Hindu counterparts, use culture and religion to rationalize women’s subjugation.
In fact, shifting the focus from culture to gender reveals a system of power that is nearly universal. Yanar Mohammed, the founder of OWFI, describes this year’s killings of women in Basra as a campaign “to restrain women into the domestic domain and end all female participation in the social and political scene.” Compare her comment to Amnesty International’s conclusion about the ongoing mass killings of women in Guatemala. According to Amnesty, that wave of violence, “carries with it a perverse message: women should abandon the public space they have won at much personal and social effort and shut themselves back up in the private world, abandoning their essential role in national development.” This certainly captures the intent of Iraq’s Islamists, who have little in common with the killers of women in Guatemala, other than a rigid adherence to a gendered system of power.
Instead of lamenting the “brutality” of Islam, the US media should start connecting the dots between the US occupation and the empowerment of people who use violence against women as a strategy to pursue their political agenda. We can start with the fact that the Pentagon has trained, armed, and funded the very militias that are killing the women of Basra.
Yifat Susskind is MADRE Communications Director.
The Pentagon wants a weak Iraq which will help delay a troop withdrawal. Killing skilled Iraqis will leave voids and a dependency on external help that is inline with current US administration policies.
Why would you expect the fox to care for the ‘hens’?
The longer this occupation lasts, and other war crimes, the more the world becomes immune to tragedy and is infected with Outrage Fatigue.
That could be the small print on the Bush Plan for full spectrum dominance that the Congress has not bothered to see or do anything about.
If ending this is part of Obama’s “Yes We Can”, What a beautiful Day!
Wining War in this New Age is Ending War.
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So what else is new? Dubba and his mafia really do not care about women, unless they are attached to an oil well. Islam and middle eastern culture is just the latest excuse for debasing women and their effort to improve their lot in life and that of their children.
Islamic texts are very specific in their subordination of women, such as the Quran at 4:3 (polygamy, sexual slavery) and 4:34 (husband’s right to beat wife if she disobeys). In Kabul under the Taliban and in Iran during the Islamic Revolution male militiamen presumed to beat women for protesting or merely failing to cover their heads and bodies. But serial killing is truly an “innovation”, not part of traditional practice.
I’ve never taken the newfound feminism of “war on terror” enthusiasts seriously. If they really cared, they would have sponsored female militias to put down the woman-beaters.
The entire WORLD needs to discuss the continuation and escalation of violence against women. As a gender, males are dangerous to society, most immediately to women and children. Why are we not talking about this?
Juliann: “The entire WORLD needs to discuss the continuation and escalation of violence against women. As a gender, males are dangerous to society, most immediately to women and children. Why are we not talking about this?”
Because it’s f*cking crazy, sexist, simplistic, and paranoid, for starters.
The idea of some guys beating on (or killing) the sisters, mothers, grandmothers, daughters, wives or future wives of other men is enough to make some of us Westerners feel sick, then very mad. A culture of “religion” that teaches this is not only okay, but that supporting the brotherhood of Muslim men is more important than actually loving and protecting the ladies has missed any reasonable interpretation of the “will” of any God whatsoever, including the one that radical Muslim clerics pretend to serve.
It’s a shame if the U.S. actions have been enabling of some more mis-guided men’s cruelty against women. It’s more of a shame if there are not enough men in Iraq or other Muslim places who themselves have the fortitude to stand up against their self-righteous brothers and say clearly: “Wrong is wrong, whether you guys justify it from your reading of the Quran or not. Stop it. Otherwise, we shall assume you are not proper men.”
I guess I’m lucky to live in America where we can say such things. They’d kill me there for it, and that’s the problem with much of Islam (literaly meaning “submission”) and the places where it has taken over. They’d kill you if you don’t buy it.
Those who give into their Barbaric strains too easily are the ones who are uncivilized.
George Bush et al are cavemen.
Daniel David - you seem to believe this is only being carried out by Muslim men. Do you not read newspapers in oh say ANY American city - or CNN online - to read how many American women are brutalized by the men in their lives - or total strangers?
One more comment - about how this just isn’t taken seriously in this world - is how few people have commented on this article.
Not many people really care.
I’m not fan of Sadaam as he oppressed his own people as far as political rights but I will say that under Sadaam women had plenty of rights, were highly skilled and educated, had the freedom of whether or not to veil, and were doing really well for themselves. Since the occupation women have lost all of that. Under King Zahir Shah, the old King of Afghanistan, this was also true at least until the Russians showed up along with the CIA/Saudi contigent. Perhaps if we left the peoples of the region the hell alone they would modernize and reform and liberate themselves? Seems to me like the west makes things worse.
But its always easier for some to blame Islam it suits their imperial purposes.
Juliann,
Yes, I’m aware that violence against women can happen anywhere, and does happen too much in America, too. I was just sticking with the theme of the article being about Iraq and women being killed there by empowered Shiites and other radicals because of a belief system.
I believe a lot of our American domestic violence and sex offenses are serious, but from a somewhat different root.
Juliann: “Do you not read newspapers in oh say ANY American city - or CNN online - to read how many American women are brutalized by the men in their lives - or total strangers?
One more comment - about how this just isn’t taken seriously in this world - is how few people have commented on this article.
Not many people really care.”
Yes, a tiny minority of men are brutes …so let’s get rid of all the men! But wait, a much smaller minority of women are also brutes …better wipe them out too! Presto, no more barbarism anywhere! Isn’t that what you’re really getting at?
Indonesia has an enormous population that follows Islam but you don’t hear reports of that sort of behavior there.
Afghanistan under the commies wasn’t that bad for the women either.
In times of war and stress the most powerful and violent rise to the top instead of the quiet and thoughtful scholars. While war is promoted to solve one problem it always creates many more in the vacuum it creates in the hierarchy.
These women are killed and left with notes that say that say they were killed for “violating Islamic teachings”. To then say that the deaths have nothing to do with Islam seems rather disingenuous to me. Why not believe the stated intentions of these guys?
As far as Indonesia is concerned, you don’t hear much of this sort of thing going on (except for Chinese women). This does not really prove anything as far as whether Islam is a factor or not. The witch hunts of the seventeenth century didn’t involve Italy, eastern Europe, or Russia- all Christian countries. They were a product of, and justified in the name of, Christianity none the less.
The opiate of the masses to the rescue!
The easiest way to get a puppet government up and running in Iraq is to ethnicly cleanse and divide it into Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish refugee camps (ethnic cities) and then pay really bad Muslims (leaders) to inflict religious oppression on the masses. That way Christians and Jews can blame our need to take over (and occupy) their country on Islam so that we can exploit their $25 trillion in oil reserves with a clean conscience.
The first step is to kill off the educated resistors. This process has been systematically observed since the beginning of the war. Al Qaida always gets the blame, but I’d bet some CIA-related mercenaries are more responsible for this highly selective killing than anyone.
The real reason why the troop surge worked, for example, is because of George W Bush’s brilliant new strategy of paying the insurgents to keep watch over their own (ethnic refugee camps)cities.
Whether you like W or not, you have to admit that it’s a bold new approach. Who else would have thought to pay off his enemies in the middle of a war? When all you have is a hammer (oil money), every problem begins to look like a nail.
If the truth ever got out that women in Iraq, under Saddam, were among the most modern and liberated in the Arab world…but don’t worry, it won’t.
Blame Islam and Christianity for murder and rape?
Please show me where rape and murder are taught in either the Koran or the Bible! That is nonsense!
The truth is the opposite.
Personal pride puffs up our beliefs in politics and nationalism until we are blinded with fear of the evil others. Then our fear leads us into frustration and anger which leads us into lust for power and greed. Finally, we will accept genocide in our name when it has been carefully justified by our selfish beliefs.
There are good and bad people in every place on earth, should we blame the culture? Prevalent religion? Genetics? Or perhaps we should not judge people’s hearts at all. We can judge their actions and restrain dangerous people from doing further harm, but general geopolitical warfare kills more people annually than any other human evil.
The great religions of the world, however, teach us to turn away from selfishness, and to temper ourselves, even when wronged! (on 911) Violence is hardly justifiable, usually after much restraint, and only in obvious cases of self-defense.
Spirituality teaches love; while religion teaches self restraint. No religion ever said, “You won’t be a good Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu until you go kill people.”
However, George W Bush’s neoconservative church of oil money sure thinks highly of “America’s best & bravest” who sign up for eternal greatness to go kill people in the name of democracy and free market economics.
The worst people on earth are the sissy liberals who are trying to keep Bush from civilizing the world, right?
Read the Bible again….murder and rape are running rampant through it.
Example: In the Book of Judges, chapter 19, the priests who wrote the Bible tell us of a father who offers his virgin daughter to a drunken mob. He has a male guest in his house, a man from the high-caste tribe of the Levites. When a rowdie crowd show up…the father says “Behold, here is my daughter, a maiden and his guest’s concubine; them I will bring out now and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you, but unto this man do not so vile a thing”
Hmmm, wouldn’t you love that be your DAD? AH…but as it is, in 2008….many do–not just in Iraq…but in the US too.
By the time the Bible or the Koran were written the world was already well under the thumb of a “dominator story”…it crossed all cultures and lives in every country today. This has to change.
Riane Eisler in her two books: The Chalice and the Blade
and her newest, Real Wealth of Nations…creating a caring economics helps make ‘visible’ the invisible dominator story that is playing in our homes, our communities, our businesses…the world.
www.realwealtheconomy.com www.rianeeisler.com
JULIANN: You raised a very important issue. Shame on Stilba for shownng such smug disregard for a very real and dangerous sexist component of many societies. It’s interesting that this issue regarding violence against women, especially potentially influential women in Iraq, is posted when Hillary is in the news, and CD discusses the potential sexist implications of her campaign (pro and con).
What’s very clear is that when a society is occupied, and the men feel a loss of power, they rely on sexism to feel superior to someone else. (Racism erupts from a similar context.)
Today when I went biking I had a lyrical thought, that if every man lifted the woman in his life to her rightful status, instead of treading on her feelings and rights (yes, there’s been some progress, hardly enough), we might see EARTH MOTHER shift. The way nature (the great Mother is treated) directly bears upon the way women are treated. The US is very violent towards women. Rape rates are insane, domestic abuse unbelievable, and quite a bit of domestic violence (including rape of female offspring) goes unreported.
Until BOTH genders are equally honored, the world will shake on its asymmetric course. Pretending that women have won full equality, especially today as a burgeoning Christian Theocratic movement demands that women “become submissive to their husbands” is just another inconvenient truth, experienced too often as its inversion.
Siouxrose - Dcbeltway You rock! The inconvenient truth is that our society is teaching very few morals by example alone. I see we have laws but the blackwater doesn’t, we are (in the US)equal, male and female, but wages don’t show it, your religions don’t show it, leadership doesn’t show it, your dress doesn’t show it. What is expected from this? Women are the force behind everything that happens in the world. Women were here first, telling you its O.K. when you where young.
To even slightly believe in the handout these killers leave is the biggest joke of all! To place religion in it at all is a joke. Its probably done by all the blackwater guards or dyncorp who is the biggest in the slave trade if you research the court papers, looking after all the bigwig politicos. I’ll bet it scares the husbands and wives of all the other educated folk into hiding and not doing or saying a thing. It might leave all the rest of the country to the hands of the white christian slaveholders like Bushco and such from south carolina i.e eric prince. Ask your local service men home for a minute from iraq if he has seen the rape trading cards that are going around by the thousands to our boys in uniform. Did I say I hate the way this country has done business illegitimately? HATE.
ANDREW.HERMAN
Read your bible. No, really read it, not just pick gooey quotes out of context. It even glorifies genocide.
“The great religions of the world…” Talk about an oxymoron. I’m ready for the Middle East desert religions–Christianity, Islam, Judism–to fade into obscurity where they belong, joining Zues, Apollo, Mithras and all the other “gods” that have seen their days come and go. Religion truly is the opiate of the masses, and it’s time the human race go into religious detox and humanistic recovery. If the human race is to survive and thrive for another 1000 years, it must rid itself of its fascination with theological mumbo-jumbo.
The corporatists will kill any Iraqi who opposes the rule of the oiligarchy. That the US policy makers directly abet this is criminal, sad, low and a debasing of the sacrifices of generations of honorable veterans.
To add to Siouxrose’s comments, there is suddenly a lot of gender polarization on CD that was previously absent. The Hillary crying issue is almost certainly behind the sentiment.
As for this article, I don’t see a lot of objectivity here. The US is definitely responsible for the chaos in Iraq, but Islam was the religion of intolerance long before we meddled in the Middle East.
“To then say that the deaths have nothing to do with Islam seems rather disingenuous to me. ”
We have just slaughtered close to 1 Million Iraqi Muslims in the last 6 years (maybe 10 if you include the sanctions). We, the U.S., a decidedly ‘Christian’ nation (and ofcourse our pet poodles the brits held our dicks while we screwed them). Do you really think we would have done this to a ‘Christian’ nation or other white people ? The KKK were Christian and they were anti-semitic and anti-catholic as well. That should surely damn Christianity more than anything else. Couple this with the fact that most of the wars in the past 2000 years were mostly committed in the name of Jesus (our good dear Lord), Christianity would top the list as the most violent and dangerous religion in the world. Religion and Racism are two of the strongest pillars supporting our Imperial quests. We learnt well from our erstwhile masters, the English.
DanielDavid — “I guess I’m lucky to live in America where we can say such things. They’d kill me there for it, and that’s the problem with much of Islam (literaly meaning “submission”) and the places where it has taken over.”
Trust me .. they would kill you for entirely different reasons !
gyptian- you can rail against Christianity all you want, (by the way, Catholics are Christians too), this doesn’t change the facts of who is killing the women in Basra. If it was meant to only destabilize the country, wouldn’t they be targeting MALE professionals as well, hanging pro-Sharia notes on their bodies?
Pointing out that killings are done in the name of Islam and Sharia law does not mean that they are condoned by Islam or most Muslims.
By the way, my Uncle was killed fighting the Germans in a war you may have heard about. Last time I checked, Germans are white.
BLIGH: You don’t have much understanding of extremist religions do you? Male professionals do not pose the threat to their male dominated world that female’s do! Don’t ever delude yourself, people like that are not going to be changed Bush deciding he wants to democratize them. They have had centuries of males telling them they are superior to females. Of being allowed to abuse females whenever they wanted to. Of no female contesting their authority. They aren’t about to give up any of that authority willingly. So, to try and change a culture like that is impossible. Therefore males are only rarely a target. Not unless they become to vocal in opposition to that male dominated world. That doesn’t often happen. All extremist religions which includes Christianity are always dominated by men. You will note there are no female Priest’s in the Catholic church or any women with any large amount of authority. You will also note that every fundamentalist religion teaches that women are subservient to men. Which is why most of them oppose birth control so vehemently. When a woman is able to control her body she usually controls her own life. They can not tolerate that. So they fight it with every fiber of their being. Extremist religions will not tolerate any opposition to their authority. To do so is a sign of weakness. They might eventually have to relinquish some of their power and authority to a woman. That is a fate worse than death in their world. In the Islamic world women are often killed for the slightest perceived offense. If she isn’t pure and chaste ‘Honor Killing’ becomes the order of the day. To cleanse the families name. So as you can see your statements don’t make a whole lot of sense in their world. They live in a world completely different from yours and mine.
Tumbleweeds, on the contrary, I have a pretty good idea of how extremist religions work. You have, in fact, made my point for me. It is for perceived religious reasons that these women are being killed.
Who Is Killing the Women of Basra? Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice.
gyptian,
“DanielDavid — “I guess I’m lucky to live in America where we can say such things. They’d kill me there for it, and that’s the problem with much of Islam (literaly meaning “submission”) and the places where it has taken over.”
Trust me .. they would kill you for entirely different reasons !”
Gyptian, I always trust you (from a distance.)
Once upon a time, way back in 2001, women had more freedom in Iraq than anywhere else in the Muslim world.
The best reference for the situation of women in Iraq before and after the American invasion is Layla Anwar’s blog.
Thanks Jacob I read that blog often myself.
Here is a note from another Muslim woman:
http://www.modernmuslima.com/unveiled.htm
As for the religion of intolerance its stems from our Foxified culture not Islam.
In reply to bligh January 11th, 2008 9:45 am “Tumbleweeds, on the contrary, I have a pretty good idea of how extremist religions work. You have, in fact, made my point for me. It is for perceived religious reasons that these women are being killed.”
- I think it would be more accurate to say it is for “purported” religious reasons, which is not the same as perceived. It becomes perceived only if you believe it.
And andrew.herman January 10th, 2008 6:49 pm asked-
“Please show me where rape and murder are taught in either the Koran or the Bible! ”
Perhaps it depends on the meaning of the word “taught” here, but if you mean, sets out in approval - Let me count the ways! - Bible KJV
Genesis, 16.1 - Where Abraham rapes Hagar and then turns her over to Sarah who casts Hagar and Abraham’s first born son, Ishmael, out into the desert. (I believe this is the basis for tracing one’s Jewish line through the mother and not the father.)
Genesis, 19.32 - 36 -Where incest is condoned and makes the children the instigators.
Genesis 29.15 - 29 - Where Jacob says the wages he wants, is Laban’s daughter. And ends up with both daughters and handmaidens too.
Joshua 8.25 “And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women were twelve thousand, even all the men of A’i.” Mass murder by any definition, possibly genocide as well.
The Sunday School story where the bad King Saul, was replaced by the Good King David. I Samuel 15.18 - 35 “And the Lord sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consummed.” But that bad King Saul, after killing all the people, just like god asked, let some of the animals be taken for sacrifices instead of being few of many disturbed and perverted instances in the Bible.
Here’s my question, how any one can read this stuff without being utterly repulsed? It is simply beyond me and scares me too. Because if you can mentally make any of this “right” then you have no moral compass.
For further enlightenment, I recommend “Wormwood” by the Residents. You can sometimes find copies of the CD online. They made a DVD that I haven’t seen. The live show was incredible.
Sorry for the long post.
TUMBLEWEED: Most excellent posting!
JACOB FREEZE: Important point. As much as we hate Saddam, he did foster a more secular society that did extend rights to women. With the collapse of Iraq, all the disenfranchised forces began to fight among themselves and due to powerlessness, many males identified with a rigid interpretation of Islam to penalize women.
Until ALL cultures recognize the DIVINE feminine, that God is not a guy, God does not have a penis (this is a totally ignorant projection of human male ego!!!!) but rather that CREATOR is a force beyond anything we mortals can remotely conceptualize, therefore we learn about the qualities of Creator from CREATION, which is a poetic interlude, an everlasting dance between yin and yang, twin forces that mate to produce life in all of its myriad and miraculous manifestations.
IF every male HONORED the females in his life, lifted them to equal status/stature, we would see earth begin to heal! For how men treat women is also extended to how they treat the natural world. The term “men” here relates to the dominant modalities that have come to life on the basis of patriarchal conditioning, processes of socialization that extend way beyond religion into the bases for law, social contracts, and academe. In other words, the male bias absolutely impacts the way both genders perceive their world; but this is a creation of human ego, the dominant masculine side of perception and hardly touches absolute Truth. Mankind must adjust its perceptions to create a new reality. Like it or not, the factors of climate change, US fiscal uncertainty, and the karmic blowback of US foreign policy will play substantially into this spiritual necessity.
“Please show me where rape or murder are taught in the Koran or the Bible.”
OK…Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, in our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’
Christian Reconstructionism arose out of conservative Presbyterianism in the early 1970’s. Adherents of Christian Reconstructionism believe ” that every area dominated by sin must be ‘reconstructed’ in terms of the Bible .”
Its followers … are attempting to peacefully convert the laws of the United States so that they match those of the Hebrew Scriptures. They intend to achieve this by using the freedom of religion in the US to train a generation of children in private Christian religious schools. Later, their graduates will be charged with the responsibility of creating a new Bible-based political, religious and social order. One of the first tasks of this order will be to eliminate religious choice and freedom. Their eventual goal is to achieve the “Kingdom of God” in which much of the world is converted to Christianity.
This has happened before. In 1493 Pope Alexander IV issued the Papal Bull Inter Caetera that essentially granted to European Kings ownership of lands discovered in the Age of Discovery. The people occupying these lands were seen as mere occupants and not owners, no better than the animals in the forest. The Spanish read the “Requirement”, a statement of Christian belief to them and if they did not accept Christ they were butchered or burned by the millions. Rape and killing were common. It is estimated that one hundred twelve million American Indians were killed in the name of Christian dominion. The practice continues to this very day in what has become known as the “quiet genocide.”
Wake up Christians, it is the belief in Christian Dominionism that engenders United States imperialism. So while you are sitting in your pew thinking God loves you, you better do a reality check. Ignorance and arrogance burn well in hell.
” Extremist religions will not tolerate any opposition to their authority. To do so is a sign of weakness. They might eventually have to relinquish some of their power and authority to a woman. That is a fate worse than death in their world.”
This kind of propoganda on a liberal blog is disturbing and points to the level of religious intolerance at all levels in this christian society.
How would you explain women as presidents or prime ministers in a supposedly rabid islamic society like Pakistan (benazir - twice elected in the past) and Bangladesh ( begum zia and sheikh hasina .. 2 different women ) and at all different levels of society in India ? What about Afghanistan where women outnumbered men in Kabul university until the Russians and Americans decided to make it their own battlefield ? What about Baghdad under Saddam where women were much better off than Baghdad under Bush.
Ofcourse we tend to sweep all this under the carpet as it doesnt merit any consideration. You see, all these are anomalies and not normal situations. Democracy and tolerance is the sole prerogative of the West and only WE can export it !!! When are you going to realize American style ‘Democracy’ is just a euphamism for Capitalism and neo-Imperialism.
As for danieldavid … with Democrats like him around is there any wonder all Progressives want to or have abandoned this party.
blight — “you can rail against Christianity all you want, (by the way, Catholics are Christians too), this doesn’t change the facts of who is killing the women in Basra.”
You are right, it doesnt, nor does it make your point of generalizing and demonizing Islam because a few religious fundamentalists commit these despicable acts. Your logic doesnt hold up. If we add up all the hate crimes in this country against ‘arab’ looking people who are perceived to be islamic and promptly shot or abused in some form by a fundamentalist christian or the extreme hate crimes of israeli jews against palestinians you begin to cover the entire gamut of religions and their corresponding religious bigots. For you to single out Islam is hypocritical plain and simple.
I’m sorry gyptian- it must be the Lutherans who are killing the women of Basra. Who is killing them is, I think, the point of the article. For you to give Islam an automatic “pass” while attacking other religions is hypocritical- plain and simple.
ps Good point on Benazir. She is now dead I believe, killed by a suicide bomber.
In defense of my statement “Show me where rape and murder are taught in the Bible or other religious texts,” I insist that Christianity does not teach rape and murder. I have read the Bible.
Perhaps there is a lot of repulsiveness in the Old Testament, which Jesus clearly overules multiple times in the New Testament, but Christians are not expected to follow the Mosaic laws of the old covenant.
Please allow me to stand corrected:
True Christianty, therefore, does not teach rape and murder. The perverted religion of sexists and bigots, who misuse and abuse the words of the scripture for their own spiritual demise, may find comfort in their ignorance of the Bible.
As I understand it Jesus taught us humility and love: Let he who hath no sins cast the first stone (missile) and Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
The truth is the truth no matter who says it or belives in it: Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, Mohammed, you, or me.
Peace. Sorry for getting people riled up.
“ps Good point on Benazir. She is now dead I believe, killed by a suicide bomber.”
Your compassion moves me to tears.
A horde of Christians led by Southern Baptists fried the people of Fallujah not too long ago and went on to rape, murder, slaughter a million Muslims. But ofcourse we will ignore it and pick on the next ‘horrendous’ act committed by another asshole as long as he is Muslim.
Gyptian, try to understand the that the article is about women being killed in Basra. You can rant all you want about evil Christians, but they didn’t do it. Try to get over it.
I’m sure a Christian will soon do something bad so that you can condemn the entire religion. Just be patient.
blight — you can either continue to wear your ignorance on your sleeve or you can attempt to get a brain. You’ve clearly chosen the former as evidenced by the fact that you’ve chosen to cherry pick such incidents and damn an entire religion (you assume that these extremists follow Islam as we know it).
“I’m sure a Christian will soon do something bad so that you can condemn the entire religion.”
This has already happened as I’ve mentioned in my previous post. Such childish gibberish of course does not warrant a reply.
Gyptian, Your gibberish or mine?
thank you for acknowledging that you are-in fact- condemning an entire religion.
I’ll condemn your religion for being pig headed, like you and not seeking truth like any real god like soul or group of such and for not having compassion for what others are saying to you and listening. All religions are harmful and condone rape and genocide for their own political gain from the dawn of currency, dumb asses! Show me one that is not and I will show you one with out a leader. I will and am condemning every organized religion. Just for the simple fact of their organization. Make you feel better for being a pawn?
“And no one wanted it save one sad old man”
I cant remember the quotes author…
“All religions are harmful and condone rape and genocide”. Damn, just my luck to live within a mile of the Buddhist Temple.
Historically they have done the same thing to women too. The Buddhists see women as inferior to men, and only in america are they allowed equality, for face value alone. The role of a woman Buddhist is one of supreme hardship as they are given the hardest tasks and tests. Women can do what no man can do. Have you gone to the temple?
“Damn, just my luck to live within a mile of the Buddhist Temple.”
The idiocy of this statement defies description.
It is hardly at all funny, especially from one who has traveled for knowledge from “enlightened” masters, but there is an understood hierarchy of those seekers of truth.
It pains me to be so blatantly stark about many un-egalitarian aspects of the pursuit of LIGHT, but JUNGLE BOY does speak the truth, as pathetic as it is, for long has the news has been out there that (only approximately):
Thus it is hardly just or entirely Western, the maladaption for Misogyny that percolates everywhere.
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
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GYPTIAN — Perhaps the comment is sarcasm, drenched in millions of years of misogyny?
Gyptian, don’t blame me if you don’t like the facts. You can WISH they were different, you can TRY to dissemble, you can even call me names if it makes you feel better. But, Christians did not kill the women of Basra, Jews didn’t do it, neither did Buddhists, Zoroasterns, Shinto, ect. It was done by Muslims wanting to bring about Sharia law. Pointing out that fact is not picking on Muslims, you knucklehead. (See I can do it too).
Try to educate YOURSELF so that you can have a reasonable conversation that does not discount the facts if they don’t fit into your worldview.
hey blight .. i have a simple 4 step process for your rehabilitation…
1] Pull your head out of those dark nether regions
2] Try and see the light .. it takes time to clear out all the crap but it may work …
3] Re-read all the posts above — and become an atheist … it helps …
4] If none of the above works then go back to your head-in-th-a~! position coz thats your real calling
It seems to take an eternity for the male segment of the world to get their heads out of their butt and accept the fact that women are superior. This hatred of women is voiced in platitudes and “Jesus” believers such as Huckabee who thinks women’s place is in the home. Why can’t men as a whole get with it and treat women with honor? The male is supposed to be the protector,instead he is the destroyer. Instead,the male is a coward.
JUDI — It seems to me that cranial anally inversion is hardly limited to the male of the species.
But first, let me ask for forgiveness for thousands of years of misogyny, torture, and domination - it de-humanizes all of us, and makes all of us incomplete, hurting, unhappy, unfulfilled, and vulnerable to disastrous hubris and mutual destruction..
I know that ANOTHER 8,000 years of abuse is harsh punishment for some well deserved ball-busting, but please, last time I checked it was a double helix with a 50-50 % deal where neither single sex of the species is able to do it on their own.
I understand that forgiveness is tough, but female superiority is no better than exactly similar male superiority.
I think the evidence is also fairly clear that men’s ability to focus and achieve results (single mindedness) is a non-starter that woman can only emulate by shutting down caring about the diverse things of the universe. This means not impossible, but unlikely. Last time this battle of sexes was fought, the men took it so personal to have erased essentially all traces of those 1st golden thousand years of Grecian empire. Now that’s really commitment to obliteration, and one has to wonder why?
If there’s one thing I have learned from this HIStory, is that women are equally powerful, and motivated, especially being uniquely able to create, bear, and nourish life. Taunting men and conceitedly pushing for HERstory, instead of OURstory — is bound to put us back through another long set of dark ages.
¿ Is your ego more important than the species & planet survival ?
If not, we’d to happy to let you vent for the next 8,000 years - but after that you will have expired our tolerance.
Siouxrose as a female I agree with you there. Though even you slip-up and use “mankind” we need to come up with a more gender neutral term humanity is good but perhaps you know of another.
Since we are on the topic of Islam in Islam God is neither male or female as God is genderless unlike Christianity where God is thought to be a man. The Arabic word Naf or soul in Islam is actually a feminine word which I always find quite interesting and actually a muslimah (female Muslim) pointed this out to me. I think women can do much to reclaim these various religious texts and interpret them from a female perspective. I think the challenge for the Islamic world is the fact that cultural practices have become mixed up in religion particularily in the Arab world and there are high rates of illiteracy leaving interpretations not to the individual but to the local mullah which is not always the best thing. Improving literacy particularily amongst women and the poor would do wonders.
Bligh-According to the article it says that whoever is killing the women of Basra is trying to disrupt the standard of living there. It doesn’t say they have a nicely written handout, it says it is unoriginal and not one fitting the context of the women. It is a pointed question to ask who. You cannot base that on Islam alone its NOT like blaming a catholic for undermining the US school system when the Protestants have been doing that all along, its like blaming all christians for the dumbing down of the educational system. (Sorry, the WASPs have all the control outside of private schools by dealing in the books.) Its a factional thing that they know more about than us uninformed americans for sure. It could be your uncle Joe who started it in NY and it turned into the popular thing or it could be some group targeting a list of names to cause fear. Just like the afterlife, I won’t claim to know, I haven’t been there. I’ll just do my best.
DC BELTWAY — Original Aramaic Genesis (way prior to King James Ed.) had both male and female word forms for God, the great circle has always been inclusive of both men and woman (for the mystics and spiritualists), but the rank and file would be too troubled with much of the Bible, so it was drastically revised (again and again, depending upon the times becoming optimistic when the Jews were enslaved, and pessimistic when fat and rich in peace). It is much more a travelogue of various travails then a focused revelatory discourse on existence.
having just skimmed over my copy of the Qur’an, 4:3 actually states that a man should NOT have so many wives, children, or slaves that he isn’t able to treat them all fairly. it says NOTHING about sexual slavery. it is a text to tell the MEN to treat people well. 4:34 does use the words “admonish” & “banish them from beds apart…” but NO WHERE does it advocate in any way beatings or physical violence of any sort. anyone who implies that the Qur’an is specific in it’s subordination of women, either has not read the Qur’an, or has taken it horribly out of context.
firefightingtigger That is right! We have to teach everyone in Iraq to READ! Another example of education stopping violence!