Hillary Booed at NH Democratic Party Dinner
If the New Hampshire Democratic Party’s 100 Club dinner is any bell weather - Barack Obama will handily win here.
When Obama, the dinner’s last speaker, took the stage the crowd surged forward chanting “O-bam-a” and “Fired Up, Ready to Go!” So many people pressed toward the stage that an announcer asked people to “please take their seats for safety concerns.”
By comparison Hillary was twice booed. The first time was when she said she has always and will continue to work for “change for you. The audience, particularly from Obama supporters (they were waving Obama signs) let out a noise that sounded like a thousand people collectively groaning. The second time came a few minutes later when Clinton said: “The there are two big questions for voters in New Hampshire. One is: who will be ready to lead from day one? The second,” and here Clinton was forced to pause as boos from the crowd mixed with cheers from her own supporters. “Is who can we nominate who will go the distance against the Republicans?”
The dinner held in the Hampshire Dome in Milford is the largest political dinner in New Hampshire history, Republican or Democrat. More than 3,000 people attended.
© 2007 Time
The Obama campaign committee is very, very, good.
Read the novel, The Ninth Wave. They are following that script.
As much as I would love to see a woman president, not this woman.
KEM, get real.
Obama is a winner, and he is going to be the greatest president since FDR.
This is a great day in America!
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE CAFE AU LAIT.
The public is a whole lot wiser than most politicians think. We were wise in 2006, and our ‘handlers’ thought they could pull the wool over for another two years. Not gonna happen. I am loving seeing democracy raise its head around this country as the press finds itself having to actually cover such events. Be proud, Americans, you are still out there.
We deserve better analysis of politics than this nonsense.
Being a Kucinich supporter, a Democrat trying to put the party back on it’s path, I don’t buy Obama’s version of change.
I am glad however that it appears that Hillary is being pushed aside where she belongs, though all three of the “top tier” candidates would have to be watched extremely closely if elected, extremely close if we are to champion true progressive values.
Hillary has got to be worried. 57% of 30 and under voters went for Obama compared to 11% for Hillary. Her hawkish voting record shows she is not much different from Bush.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?pid=265730
Hillary “I see imaginary people” Clinton booed.
Sweet!
Obama should thank Michael John Hamdani for opening our eyes to what kind of person Hillary really is.
So should Edwards actually.
Should I assume, after reading the article, that Edwards was not booed?
————–
I wonder if Obama’s groupies have seats at the debate later today.
Isn’t this the same Obama who wooed AIPAC and supported Liebermann (who endorsed McCain) in 2006?
Same ol’ same ol’.
HRC got a problem. The more people know her, the less people like her. Her poll numbers drop as soon as she goes campaigning on the ground.
She is “so ready to lead” but unfortunately the Americans is not “so ready to follow”.
Obama is of this time while Hilary is of the past decade (and a boomer). As one born in the year that cleaves the Baby Boom & Bust (1964), I can go either way. I choose to go with the future as my attitudes are more in line with my younger comrades: race is not important, tech savvy, cosmopolitan, gender and sexual orientation fairness as a value, etc. Obama projects this much better without being the betee noire of the looney tune right wing.
Hillary is pro war all of the time. She’s a corporate shill. She’s in AIPAC’s pocket. No way would I ever vote for her. Obama’s too pro war to suit me.
EDWARDS 2008
Hillary saw imaginary people because it was the popular thing to do at the time. She just went too far when she went on live TV and told everybody exactly where these five people (who never existed) crossed the border from Canada into the US.
Hillary follows the trends but she doesn’t set them. You give her a poll that says that Americans prefer walnut icecream guess what she will announce at her next TV interview.
Booing Hillary before a televised debate is meant to put her off her game. We know that already.
It was a cheap shot, but it wasn’t Obama who did it either - officially.
The picture of Hillary reminds me of an old skit by 22 minutes. To make fun of the “Vagina Monologues” they had a skit called “The Penis Dialogues” which consisted of Rick Mercer going up to politicians and asking “how big is it” - and you caught on pretty quickly that he was asking the female politicians how big a baby mouse is (when one gave extra details) and male politicians about something much larger.
Talk about “Get Real!” Obama isn’t 1/10 of what FDR was. I’d like to see him take on the NY Power and Light Corporations as FDR did during the 20th century’s first bout with free market rapism. Given his overt timidity when confronted with entrenched power, his constituents would have been big losers.
Someone yesterday made the observation that Obama is like a balloon–There’s nothing inside, other than a DLC tabula rasa.
You won’t see John Edwards name mentioned in the press or media if they can help it Vaudree.
They don’t want him, “They” are the ones who control the press.
Yup Paul the game is rigged I wonder when people will get this.
Nader2000: Obama is a winner, and he is going to be the greatest president since FDR.
He might be a winner with his suporters (duh!), but there is no way the American people are going to elect a black guy who’s middle name is Hussein. I mean, come on…
Alan Nairn, investigative reporter, was on Democracy Now! last Tuesday, and he has been researching who the principal advisers are to the various candidates.
Barak Obama’s principal foreign policy adviser, according to Nairn, is Zbigniew Brzezinski, the worst warmonger on the Democratic side of the past third century. He was calling for a new Pearl Harbor before the Project for a New American Century, and in his 1998 book, The Grand Chessboard, he argued that as the sole “superpower” it was our destiny to control the oil of the Caspian basin, which, by the way, is the real reason for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the threats to Iran. The U.S. imperialist clique imagines they can dominate south Asia and take the oil of the Caspian basin, and to fulfill this mistaken, doomed strategy, they have our young men and women in indefensible positions in the remote desert crags and canyons of Afghanistan, with the goal of building and protecting an oil pipeline to transport Caspian oil through Pakistan to the Arabian Sea and the Indian Ocean.
Not only are these people evil, they are idiots. The actual lesson of the Great Game, and this used to be accepted as fact, is that no matter how big or powerful, no outside power can dominate the areas of the big mountains of south Asia. The geography is just too difficult. Outsiders are universally despised, and will always be driven out in the end. It happened to the Brits and the Russians and it will happen to the U.S. imperialists.
But the military contractors and C.I.A. connected heroin dealers are making billions off the blood of our children and the blood of the Afghans and Iraqis, so more billions are appropriated and thousands upon thousands continue to die.
There are roughly 300 million people living in the area the Imperialists are foolishly trying to dominate. The Chinese are next door, and have already built a pipeline to tap Caspian oil. The Russians have a pipeline.
Cheney and the boys might as well forget about it. They have already lost.
And if Obama is listening to Zbigniew Brzezinski, he will stupidly lead us down the same disastrous path we are blundering along already.
You’re so right, KEM. With the corporate media it’s Hillary vs. Obama, song without end — never mind that in polling matchups of GOP vs. Dem candidates, Edwards WINS more handily than any other Democrat against any of the GOopers.
Yeah HEAVYRUNNER, and when rats are trapped or losing, they can be very dangerous.
ADELE, I watched several news programs yesterday and last night till the wee hours. I saw fifty ads for Head On, apply directly to the forehead and heard John Edwards name mentioned one time. __ ONCE. It was Hilary/Obama/Huckabee. Did see a good interview with Ron Paul, the first time I ever had a good look at him on TV. Liked what he said.
Hey, can you imagine being married to Hillary and having to spend the night with her after the booing. __ Oh my God.
Very interesting comments. The one above reflects what some people believe. There may be some thoughts that do not move unlike sheep toward the edge. However, change is necessary, Obama needs to recognize that he must apply substance to the list of things he would like to do. We want to know how he will do them, it is not enough just to say they are hard, as did JFK.
I am tired of these paranoid, ignorant, low level comments so typical of where this country has arrived. there is no point waving the flag it represents a lot that is bad in the world. Like the Roman empire for all the good it has done it has been matched by the evil. Like Rome it will founder the great days of thought, ethics and fairness are over.
Mr. Gore Vidal, has so rightly said what is so wrong with this country, and its media conglomerates! Wolf Blitzer one of the glaring examples of its distorted ideas and a person who has no right to shape public opinion. He shows ignorance as a virtue for all the world to see, an example of what is considered by too many in America, a concern for rectitude and fairness.
Mr. Kucinich one of the examples of what America could be, a great example of what the congress should be, and is denied exposure because he shows the media for their facile, empty ideas that have little substance. He points up how they dumbs down the electorate! he brings a truth and fairness that media sold out long ago since they are nothing more than the television moguls voice and do their bidding as required. They have sold their souls long ago!
Welcome to American politics and their values as represented by the useless thinking of the American media. Between Russet’s baseball questions and Blitzers right wing empty questions, we begin to understand some of the reasons why the American public is considered empty by Europeans standards.
But the true evil of this or any other election is the uninformed media who has the nerve to eliminate candidates. Those who do that should have their licenses at the FCC revoked. It is not their right to approve candidates that is solely the right of the American people and no one else! The media should get back to where they are supposed to be, FAIR AND BALANCED REPORTING . . .REPORT ONLY!!
As usual few are able to see the stampede of the sheep. I support the change that Obama represents! He is intelligent and wants America once again to be looked upon as a great nation that it could be. However, saying that is the discovery that no one could have been as bad as the Bush bunch!
A flight from entrenched American politics is necessary. . .it has ruined this country and made greed the one value of importance. The young people must once again embrace hope since the Hillary group have virtually destroyed America with its policies and exclusive power club. No change is necessary and the mistakes that Obama may make can not be greater than those of the past eight years. It is necessary to give him a democratic congress.
I would support Ron Paul has his vice president if he really wanted to bind up the nations wounds. Ron Paul and Kucinich both speak the truth! I suggest this as a means of having the American government become a government of unity and of purpose, as he speaks about wanting to reach out to all states!
RE: - You won’t see John Edwards name mentioned in the press or media if they can help it Vaudree.
You will if he comes in first or second again in NH. Here’s hoping.
So it is the Hockey game on TSN and then the debate on ABC. I’m not going to get too much work done today.
For those that criticize the FCC - why don’t you just eliminate it and go with the CRTC!
He might be a winner with his suporters (duh!), but there is no way the American people are going to elect a black guy who’s middle name is Hussein. I mean, come on…
***worth repeating.
The lefties have to think about things outside their own experience. How would someone in a red neck state regard him?
Edwards is a better shot than either Obama or Clinton against a standard republican candidate.
But if he was the nominee the media would ravage Edwards even more than they already do.
President Huckabee has a certain ring to it.
I know how to lead! I can lead! Leading is the first thing I would do! GO KUCINICH
There is a lot of room for education. We need to teach as many people as possible to be aware of what the corporate media is doing. In fact, what we really need is an electorate that is so well educated in these matters that they automatically know that the candidate that’s running all the paid ads and who is getting all the fawning corporate press coverage is exactly the candidate that they should NEVER vote for. We need an electorate that automatically knows that the candidate they see on tv is exactly the candidate that will screw them over in favor of their corporate backers if in office. And that the candidates they need to support will be the ones who only get negative coverage, precisely because they are the ones who if in office will look out for the people and possibly not add to the corporate bottom line.
The part that really has me puzzled is that so many people out here always seem surprised that the corporate media isn’t pushing their non-pro-corporate candidate. Duh!
And just once I’d like to see a progressive campaign try to do some of this larger education effort that’s needed rather than just focusing on their narrow campaign interests. This is bedrock type stuff that needs to be done to challenge corporate power.
Only if he comes in first Vaudree. Even then, I can see the big news will be Obama and Hillary and how Huckabee did. Wait and see.
With Hillary in there, John Edwards has to split the vote of those who don’t favor Obama with her. The same is true if Edwards wasn’t in the race, Hillary would have won in Iowa. Of course she or Obama can’t beat a Republican, Edwards can. Obama got 38% of the Iowa vote, There were 63% who didn’t want him. Hillary and Edwards split that vote, Edwards came in second and Hillary gets the press.
RE - But if he was the nominee the media would ravage Edwards even more than they already do.
They’ll do that to Obama as well if he was the nominee - it goes with the territory. Though, in Hillary’s case, if Bill can get an article pulled out of a magazine, he has the power to protect Hillary from a certain amount of that.
RE - President Huckabee has a certain ring to it
Then Huckabee can come to Canada and actually get to see this “National Igloo” he congradulated us on way back when he was a governor.
Got to “Week of February 14, 2005″ and click on
“Video: Monday Report salutes Canada’s Women In Parliament.”
http://www.cbc.ca/mercerreport/backissues.php?season=2
Again, Duh! The media is going to ravage the Dem nominee no matter who it is.
I heard the same nonsense 4 years ago. Then it was the BS that the media would be kind to Kerry because he was a war vet. That would deflect all the nasty attacks and force them to treat him with respect. How’d that work out for ya?
The corporate media is always going to favor the Republicans because no matter how pro-corporate the Democrats are, the Republicans will always be more so. We’ve seen this silly dance where the Dems keep moving right thinking that’s the answer to their narrow minded dreams of power, then the Republicans just move further right and still call the Dems socialists.
Of course, during the primaries the corporate media will favor the most pro-corporate of the Dem candidates. Call that their plan B. If they have to lose, they want to lose to someone who’s as pro-corporate as possible. But the constant trend is that the candidate that seems to get the nice pro-corporate media coverage in the primaries gets turned on in the november elections. It always happens. And watching the Dems get surprised by this every election is getting to be like watching Charlie Brown trying to kick the football Lucy is holding.
If you try to pick a nominee that the pro-corporate media won’t ravage, it ain’t gonna work.
What a load of crap. Why is this on Common Dreams?
John Edwards didn’t attend the dinner.
He was hanging out with real people who couldn’t afford to pay $500 for a plate of cardboard food.
COMarc–You’re right about educating voters; it’s an education that ought to be constant, not just in election years. Some of this is done in the blogosphere, and some even happens in colleges, when one has an enlightened PolySci prof and an active, intelligent group of students. This is something we should be mindful of and try to express when commenting on other blogs.
Obama will be the Kennedy of the 21st century. His election to the presidency will give the rest of the world that the USA is still the beacon of Democracy “where everybody is somebody”
My faith in the American system will be restored after Vietnam,the Balkan States, Iraq, Afgahanistan, Somalia and the other irresponsible American adventurism in the World.
‘What a load of crap. Why is this on Common Dreams?’
Big Joe, I’m with you on this one. I’d rather read something more meaningful here, like an article titled ‘Hillary Poo Pooed at Pink Taser Party’ Unbelieveable that this level of nonsense passes as commentary anywhere, let alone on a liberal site.
I just don’t think Dennis has the animal magnetism or is the father figure that Americans want in a president.
Yes he has most of the right answers and I have supported him even in the last election but it was the same thing… “I am the only one for this and that” great, but if after all these years he is still saying the same things with not much support with the result making all his good causes that we want seem unattainable because he keeps reminding us that he is the only one.
I think much of his support comes also that he is non threatening in appearance and many folks who are for peace like that and wish they could persuade the rest of America that we should all want the little guy in the White House.
Dennis is a damn good Congressman, but I wish he would drop out of the race and try to be a leader in Congress and hammer at all the investigations and his own impeachment bills.
That would be the sign of a good revolutionary, but his dream of being Prez is wasting all of our time now.
Huckabee to me is not the father figure either… kind of the nutty Uncle figure.
andyman, loved your comment: (Edwards didn’t attend the dinner because he was hanging out with real people who couldn’t afford $500 for a plate of cardboard food!)
vaudree, hoping isn’t enough! If we want Edwards to come in first or second in NH we have to donate some money NOW — remember, he’s not swimming in corporate cash like the rest of the field (which is why he’s the one candidate who will really bring change).
Classic line from “Rosemary Baby”…
“they are all…WITCHES”
One more thing… lots of folks expect the candidates to get more specific … like Dennis.
My Buddy Phil Ochs had a Reagan script for victory in his closet that his Sister showed me and it said the way to win is not to talk details and hot issues because it gives people too many reasons to question and not vote for you.
I know it is not right but we are humans with all the weaknesses… the repubs use this knowledge and similar weaknesses of our nature to their advantage and most politicians who win know these rules.. Sorry but it is true.
Edwards WAS at this dinner. I heard Andrea Mitchell of NBC report on it. She said Hillary got a “polite response.” No mention of the booing. Edwards was very well-received. But Obama, she said, “got the rock star treatment.”
Now WHY did these clowns who wrote this article not even mention Edwards? This guy came in second, he is very much still in the race, and they continue to act like he’s not there.
Incredible!
Another incident: the day before the Iowa primary, Chris “Gasbag” Matthews doing his usual corporate schtick made a comment that there was one presidential candidate who “doesn’t even read the newspapers. Who is this clown, anyway. We’ll let you know right after the break.” And as the show begins to break for a commercial, a clip of Edwards talking to some supporters comes up…leading the viewer to believe that this “clown who doesn’t read the newspaper” is Edwards. But it wasn’t!!! It was that weasel HUCKABEE!
I am so disgusted.
Thanks for the explanation about Edwards. I wondered if it was just more of the same old Radio Silence (unless of course John gets a haircut, then it’s all haircut, all the time.)
A good friend of mine, a Scottish virtual socialist, just wrote an email explaining her excitement about Obama. That depressed me. Never mind that Obama has no plan to remove the troops (unlike Edwards), supports the Robert Rubin Hamilton project (more neoclassical pro-globalization), and ultimately supported his “mentor” Lieberman in the Lamont/Lieberman race,
I lost heart with Obama during the Scalito nomination fight. Kerry and Kennedy had actually mounted a filibuster against the nomination (and imagine, the world DIDN’T end when that tool was used by a Dem. Amazing). They had garnered dozens of votes. Then on the Sun. before the vote, Obama went on the Sun. talk shows to speak out AGAINST the wisdom of the filibuster. I couldn’t believe that the Rising Star with Mucho Political Capital had decided to finally expend it to make sure that Scalito got in. To make matters worse, when the vote actually occurred, he voted against Alito and FOR the filibuster! Why? Because that way he’d have a record that, well, despite all the talk, he actually voted for the filibuster (of course, by that time he’d help assure it would fail).
Contrary to his smooth, non-politician persona, this guy out-machiavellis Bill Clinton himself. You gotta admit, the guy’s smart.
But, as Nader acknowledged, he has no progressive agenda. As usual, I imagine that a majority of Dems will be satisfied with the non-GWB candidate. But do they really think that a majority of this country–that TWICE almost voted in the most fascist pres. in our history–would vote for a black guy named Obama Hussein?
Al Gore’s right. Reason has disappeared from our political discourse.
John Edwards did not attend the event. His wife, Elizabeth, did.
Transcript on My Direct Democracy: “Edwards is not coming. Apparently he feels this event is too much of a bigwig event.”
http://mydd.com/story/2008/1/4/191135/2167
Many other sources . . . he held a town hall meeting instead.
Another endorsement as to why he remains my candidate of choice.
Another reason why he remains my candidate of choice.
I am a Kucinich fan. Kucinich encouraged his supporters, if he didn’t fair well in Iowa, to look to Obama. Why? I trust Kucinich and feel he must know something. Any thoughts? Also, I thought I saw Rocky Anderson standing next to Madeline “yes, I believe the Iraq sanctions were worth the deaths of the Iraqi children” Albright at the Clinton rally. I hope I was mistaken.
Even from my unenthusiastic and curmudgeonly perspective, I’m appalled by the writhing doublespeak– or doublesee– of the contradictory claims that on the one hand, Iowa and NH are just the “first steps” in a year-long process vs. the fact that John Edwards has been, or is being, “disappeared” by the media.
I’ve already heard several abecedarian offhand dismissals from local and national teevee infotainwhores, to wit: Edwards didn’t do well enough in Iowa to keep the money flowing; Edwards is therefore mortally wounded, will drop out sooner or later, and it’s now “really” a two-candidate race.
The “smart” people have already written off Edwards. And then there’s Obamamania. There’s a less-publicized rule of news/opinion broadcasting that is just as universal as “if it bleeds, it leads”: any mass “mania” phenomenon is pounced upon and amplified by the consent manufacturers. “Media” and “mania” are only a vowel and a consonant apart– practically fraternal twins.
So, overnight, Edwards is reduced to a dim shadow, already blotted out by the fierce and blinding glare of the charismatic Human Sparkler, Obama.
Al Gore and dlp67 are right.
I have to admit I am enjoying all the nonsense. Not that I’m above it I’m definitely a part of it. In truth I’m not going to be led anywhere by any of these politicians. Not one of them has a new idea. None of them can voice a new domestic and foreign policy paradigm. Not one BIG idea has been voiced that demonstrates inventive thinking or even creative thinking. Are we not beyond little ideas and old dead ends?
Here’s what I would like to hear someone say:
Folks we suck. We are first class cheats, crooks, murderers, and social misfits dressed up in red, white, and blue. We believe in Christian rooted imperialism that has resulted in untold millions of purposful deaths so that we might live in wealth and splendor. We have over 750 military bases throughout the world and we scare the ever lovin’ shyt out of everyone else. We are world class nuclear sociopaths and our leaders are in a wealth induced and ego induced denial. Our god tells us that we have absolute dominion over the world. Bullshyt! Wake up, we suck! The more money you have the more you suck. God thinks we suck too. Everybody thinks we suck. I suck so bad I want to lead you suckers. So how do we get from such monumental suckers to a better place? I don’t have a freeking clue! Vote for me…
You are far better than that DnG. Cummon bud.
We have just had a perfect example of DIS-information up there. One says Edwards did not attend the dinner. Another comes back and says, “Oh YES he did, blah, blah, blah.” Then we hear the facts. But are they? Such things causes rumors and untruths to be spread. Some do it to Obama, Hillary, Edwards, all of them. When Kerry ran, the lies told about him were enough to fill the Grand Canyon. The Republicns are very well versed, in what they term “Rat Fu#$ing”. I guess what we all really know is, don’t beleve everything we read, unless we have seen it with our own eyes, or have a credible source.
Are there diebold voting machine’s in New Hampshire?
booing hillary is more of a negative comment by obama supporters about obama supporters than it is a statement about hillary.
it has been a wild ride to witness the people , republican , democrat , independent , progressive , all walks of persons, that have all come down on hilliary , as hard as any lynch-mob , one could imagine. reminds of some other time and some other place… hmmm , now where and when was that ? my gut instinct , tells me that hilliary has been pretending to be one of the ‘bad’ guys , so she could slip in their front door , so that she would be in a position to help us. just the sheer volume and variations of your mob-like hissing , jeering and booing….alerts the very depths of my soul , that hilliary was one of the avatars posing as one of the oppressors , and was really one of the good guys , so that she might live to ease our collective pain. (but then again i could be wrong, if my gut feelings are having an off-year)
“. . .the way to win is not to talk details and hot issues because it gives people too many reasons to question and not vote for you.” –Jim Glover
Jim’s point is important to keep in mind. Most politicians will deliberately remain as vague as they can get away with. This is especially true for Obama, he will–and should, if he wants to get elected–avoid looking too liberal and too pro-African American.
I think it’s a mistake to put any great stock in what a candidate says on any given issue (e.g. W in 2000; humble foreign policy, my ass) I think it makes more sense to get a feel for what kind of judgment (s)he will exercise.
It’s also worth remembering that in 1960 Kennedy campaigned on the “missile gap” that Republicans had allowed to occur.
“my gut instinct , tells me that hilliary has been pretending to be one of the ‘bad’ guys , so she could slip in their front door , so that she would be in a position to help us” A word to the wise. This is what we were encouraged to think about one Anthony Blair. We couldn’t have been more wrong. He is a bad guy.
Naturally, I am elated that Hillary Bushlite came in third place in Iowa and that she got booed in New Hampshire. This opportunistic politico deserves to be booed every time she opens her mouth.
That does not mean I support Obama, though. Although he did not vote for the war, an act for which he must always be commended and appreciated, he nonetheless seems more like an interior decorator than a politician who can face down the military-industrial-Congressional complex. The latter task, I no longer see as something that can be achieved by any single politician. Only the continued political, economic, financial, and social decay of this land will bring it down.
Kucinich did not generally endorse Obama, by the way; he merely recommended him to this supporters in the Iowa context.
the problem is that we want a ‘father ‘ figure and not just any father figure but a benevolent one , the ‘ good ‘ father.the nation , grows as a flabby and cranky child , wanting the ‘good ‘ father to make it all right. i fear this is an outdated , outmoded attitude and does not live up to the ideal of democracy , where the people are expected to be informed ,educated and the very active force known as ‘we the people ‘ we have been as derelict of our duties as citizens of a democracy , as mankind has been in general in its obligation of ‘husbandry’ as caretakers of this earth , the dark intrusion of ‘overseers’ has turned the worm.
KEM PATRICK, what you observed above was someone making an ill-informed comment, without bothering to check the facts. kane51 heard that “Edwards was well-received” … Elizabeth, not John. I don’t think either comment constitutes “dis-information.”
Which is not to say I disagree with you about Republican “ratF#$cKing.” But just as much of a problem is the fact that many people simply are not paying attention . . .
oldbadgertoo, not denying the endless possibilities , we are living in and thru the time when almost nothing is what it appears to be and i can fully expect there will be many times when i will stand , corrected.
Ever wonder why so many Republicarns Hate Senator Clintion? Trey know their free lunch will be over when she becomes President.
You parent out their ?
Would you send you son into politics if he was as unexperienced as O’bama?
I half way think much of the O’bam’s funding is coming from Bush people of yhr last 2 terms.
They know if they knock out Senator Clinton. It will be easy to get O’bama to fumble.
Hell it might be so bad that he could lose Congress also.
Question Why does O’bama want to be President this minute?
Where is his program?
You seem to have forgoten how the Republicans got in the first place.
They used the words CHANGE and NOT FROM DC.
Look what we got the last time we followed THE CHANGE CANADATE.
And You JFK buffs =If You recall JFK was exactly storming his way to that 2nd term.
Most of the legislation propose by JFK President Johnson got passed.
Democrats love Circle Firing squads.But this time if we run O’bama there might not even be a Democratic party after the smoke clears.
Quit repeating Rush Limbaugh BS about Senator Clinton and really check her record.
Almost every bad thing said about Senator Clinton can be traced back to Limbaugh and his copiers.
Come on Democrats sstart thin king on your own.
NH has paper ballots (you fill in the circles with a marker).
It’s so frustrating that Edwards has been blacked out by the media. They are too obsessed with the Hillary/Obama freak show.
The “sheeple” have drunk the Obama KoolAid and it’s a soothing, tasty drink, less filling than the rest. He’s not the JFK of our time, he’s the Mr Rogers.
Obama is pro-nuke, pro-war, pro-corporation. He’s as progessive as Dick Cheney. I’m glad someone else mentioned that the Repubs will eat Barack Hussein Obama for lunch when they get their paws on him. He has no experience to speak of, and the swift boating will be, er, swift.
nymet624: As far as I know, NH has no diebold and no touch-screens. I left there in ‘04, at that point everything was either paper ballots or optical scanners. I believe a paper trail is required. Bill Gardner, the Sec of State, is as straight a shooter as you’ll find in charge of elections anywhere in the country. The local moderators at each polling place take their jobs very seriously, and each party usually has a volunteer stationed right by the table to make sure it’s OK. They make a few mistakes especially on same-day-registration (mostly the usual sorts of issues around students who may or may not really live in Keene, Plymouth, or Durham). A few years ago the AG’s office, ACLU, and Bill Gardner worked out procedures for straightening most of those out on the spot. All in all, expect a pretty clean process inside the polling places. Dirty tricks, if any, will take place outside, e.g. phone jamming (see 2002) or lying push-polls.
I hardly ever hear Rush unless someone driving puts him on.
So I guess I am not thinking on my own anyway.
Clinton’s record speaks for itself… Don’t need Stupid Rush.
Perhaps CD should consider a stunning golden background to more accurately portray the hue of the journalism portrayed herein.
Bill Showed what a dynamic duo they will be when he said the first thing Hillary will do when she becomes president is have Bush Sr and me go around the world and tell everybody that the USA is back in business again and make up for the mistakes of Little George….
Big George reply, somthin like “Are you Nuts?”
That is a preview of the circus the Clintons will be…. After his first exposed affair, Hillary will ban him from the White House and forget about foreign policy… the news will all be about the latest marriage scuffle.
Bill loves Big George, the Godfather of the Illuminati if there ever was one.
Here we go again, folks!
We are back to the lesser of two evils again. That’s America!
JAY N-S
1. It’s bellwether. A bellwether is the lead sheep of a herd, wears a bell on his collar, so the others and the shepherd know where he is. The other meaning, therefore, is of an indicator of trends. (widder - Old Saxon for male sheep)
My pet peeve - it’s bad enough that the hoi polloi no longer know how to speak or write English, but those who make their living with the language must know better.
2. “by comparison” - a comparison is of similar things. “by contrast” would fit properly.
[…and yes, I know my punctuation etc. are incorrect - these are rough notes.]
Otherwise, thanks for the article - good to know.
Here is an article from the Baltimore Sun RE: Edwards
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/01/edwards_keeps_humming_while_ot.html
Nice to see him getting some direct attention. The article points out that Edwards message is on target, where as Obummer and others are changing theirs.
If you think Edwards get little airtime, how ’bout Kucinich, talk about marginalized. I hope he makes a strong showing on Tuesday!
Just one more note here folks. This thing is just beginning. How about we let it run a while before we start trying to declare a winner. MSM be dammed! I am hopefull the American people will use their brains a little this time around.
The Repukes are pretty smart. They know:
What is the figure? 60% of the voters are women? They are afraid of Hillary winning like she did in new york as senator (but they’d much rather have her than Edwards.)
The Repukes control the media corps and they’d rather have a candidate who cannot win the general election get the dem nomination.
And that man is Obomber.
If the dems play to win, they’ll run hillary without Obomb-em as running mate. But nobody’s ever accused the dems of being smart…..
Vote green party. You know what’s going to happen if we keep voting for dynasty. Misery.
dear hillary , i remember how hard you fought , when you were the first lady, for us to have national healthcare. i think that was the real you . your efforts were crucified . i don’t know for a certainty , judging by the angry mob that hisses , boos and calls for your political death , you were the one that was (covertly) on the side of the people . i will be thinking of you , best wishes, from one of the people
RE: - The “sheeple” have drunk the Obama KoolAid and it’s a soothing, tasty drink, less filling than the rest. He’s not the JFK of our time, he’s the Mr Rogers.
At least you didn’t compare him to Mr Dress-up who died days after 9-11 BTW. Mr. Dress-up got his start with Fred Rogers btw.
RE: - Almost every bad thing said about Senator Clinton can be traced back to Limbaugh and his copiers.
What about what Hillary “I see imaginary people” Clinton said on December 31, 2002 - or what I prefer to call Hamdani-gate (after Michael John Hamdani). It was at that moment I found out what kind of person Hillary is and the Repugs had nothing to do with it!
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20030108/coderre_fbi_hoax_030108/20030108/
But as far as Obama supporters booing Clintion - I think I saw something similar in the documentary “Please Vote For Me” about a grade 3 class in China where the kids were trying to decide between three potential candidates for Class Monitor. That was one of the tricks one of the 8 year old candidate’s supporters used when another 8 year old candidate got up to speak - booing.
http://www.whydemocracy.net/film/3
I wonder how many of the other tactics used by candidates in this documentary we are going to see.
RE: - You won’t see John Edwards name mentioned in the press or media if they can help it Vaudree.
First they ignore you …
How does the rest of it go?
RE: - With Hillary in there, John Edwards has to split the vote of those who don’t favor Obama with her.
I thought it was the other way around - that Obama and Edwarts were not-Hillary I and not-Hillary II.
Canada won BTW! In over time.
AdeleTheCzech, the one thing that Mulroney’s dirty business taught me is that it is illegal to donate to the political campaign of another country. Buying a button as a novelty item is allowed, though.
RE: - Obama will be the Kennedy of the 21st century.
If he dates a movie star and then gets assassinated then the comparisons will never stop.
Debate starting soon and I did not get through the comments.
Obama, Edwards, Clinton
Fraud, Fraud, Fraud
If most of America wants to end the war, why are they settling for ‘top tier’ candidates that all agreed we’d still have troops in Iraq in 2013 ? It’s just like ‘Add 40,000 troops Kerry’ in 2004- America has a ‘choice’ between a pro-war D and and a pro-war R.
It makes no sense, other than calling it Manufactured Consent.
because the all you can eat buffet of candidates is in reality ,cold beans from a tin can . no real variety on the menu. you should know by now that if it is a tuxedo and ball gown event , they are going to tell you to show up in your clown suit and vice versa . welcome to mirror world , which is why i know the only thing that could turn this freak show around , is if nobody showed up to vote for any of them at all. since that isn’t going to happen this year , you can vote for fraud , frauder or fraudiest….alias evil , eviler or evilest , and quit your whining .
Traditional political campaigning is just useless masterbation designed to control the masses. It absorbs their energy with no guarantee that anything will change once the new leader gets into office.
There’s no reason why candidates have to wait until they’re in office to act. There’s no reason why the candidates can’t be now leading marches, sit ins, civil disobedience, encouraging people to STOP BUYING, etc.
That they don’t act now leads one to question their true motives. It may all be just reality tv.
Martin Luther King, Jr. or Gandhi wouldn’t now just be “campaigning”; they’d be in jail.
ANDYMAN, I knew you had it correct. It was the other I was referring to.
A vote for Hillary is a vote for Bush.
Time for the American people to wake-up.
Obama is the one to do it.
Good for America ,good for the world.
What are you talking about PEACE CANDIDATE? John Edwards is the only one who has said he would pull our troops out of Iraq and end the occupation.
NAYOIBI, you don’t have a clue either. John Edwards stands alone and he’s the only one who will put us back on the right track.
BIG BAD BILL, you said the same thing aobut 20 others wrote here. We know the score too.
Did none of you actually watch the NH Democratic Dinner? I did, a very large portion of that assembly went wild chanting for Hillary for a long time with “Ready” playing in the background and hundreds of READY posters waving around all over - more than drowned out any booing, and it looked like they were mobbing her party as it moved through the room. Obama’s also enthusiatic reception was shorter as it happens and less over the top.
Hillary is very impressiv, I saw and heard her close up in my town, a few years ago and was in complete admiration for her intelligence, fluency, analytical abilit and - suprise - authenticity. BUT, her ‘war’ votes and defense posture has made her unaccebtable for this voter, alas.
This article is biased baloney - Jay Newton-Small, Small by name an small by nature it seems. And Time/CNN? Pulease!
Keep your eyes and ears on C-SPAN, Road to the Whitehouse, get it unedited as it goes down.
KEM, The Ninth Wave, good suggestion. Eugene Burdick (The Ugly American, Fail-Safe, etc) was way ahead of his times. 52 years later the Ninth Wave is still relevant, prophetic really. Thanks for the reminder.
Some posters are referring to the “Ninth Wave”.
Is this a book?
Thank you.
Poor Dennis Kucinich. He’s literally forgotten already by the so-called progressive community. Meanwhile the ‘ruling-class’ finds amusement in watching Democrats play tug-of-war with Obama, Edwards, and Clinton. It looks like they’ll win again. Media manipulation is quite effective in achieving results.
She looks so very mad and appears to be snarling. Reminds me of Howard Dean when he lost.
Hi sophia. I don’t have any great revelations or anything like that, but I trust Kucinich, too. And I highly doubt he’d endorse someone who he felt was bad for the American people.
The only hope the Republicans have is a Clinton or Obahma ticket, Edwards has all the qualities to drive the bush gang into the ground where they belong so the MEDIA ignore Edwards and promote the other two. Edwards will win because the American people have awoken from their long slumber at last.
A “must read”:
http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Feb2007/street0207.html
The Obama Illusion
Neither do I Big Bad Bob. I do like your posts however.
“This fight is personal.” John Edwards, January 5, 2008
On the Bill Moyer’s TV news program last night, Kucinich said he did not endorse Obama. He said, ~he just told his supporters to vote for Obama if he didn’t make the 15% cut in the first round~. He has to fight it out with Edwards in New hampshire and perhaps thought it would be very good if Edwards didn’t win Iowa. He made a big mistake in my opinion by doing that. It looks as if he made a deal with Obama, and indeed, that is what one of his staff said, Kucinich made a deal with Obama.
I am certain it is personal. It has to be when one is runnig for office against others. Very personal.
A sporting contest is personal, poker for real money is personal. Politics is very personal.
“Making sure we’re listening to the American people.” (pointing to John Edwards, indicating John Edwards is) Barack Obama, January 5, 2008
the ninth wave,a novel by eugene burdick..(chapter;).’murder rides the ninth wave’. it is old surfer - lingo.it is said that the ninth wave of a set of waves , is ominous and to ride it , the rider knows the risk ,as the ninth wave is said to be a ‘killer’ wave. i know a bit classic surf lingo and lore..,i remember a poster here awhile back , because her name was a classic old surf definition for falling off your board into turbulent water . what about a poster referring to a ninth wave ? i missed that exchange . i don’t like any candidate well enough to vote for them . KEM , you are champion of john edwards , and he sounds good , my family had an encounter with him ,when he was a practicing lawyer , years ago in north carolina , i won’t get into any discussion about it ,but suffice it to say , that i hope edwards is truthful and not a crook , kem ,because he has the jimdandiest platform. but i still can’t find just the right person to vote for . i thought that was a nasty trick george w. pulled on hillary ,last week. giving the insurance and pharmaceutical companies the very things they had wanted from hillary. knew they would have an ace up the sleeve. more profits , less repercussions and the poor and the elderly will pay for the whole thing….
You can either vote for a republican, or you can vote for Hillary. Either way you’re getting a republican.
Why are progressives on this website following the republican playbook?
There are two progressive candidates, Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel (my preference) and I want to see more article here on CD about them and their policies.
Clinton and Obama are clearly not progressive, Edwards probably isn’t a true practitioner of progressive politics (though he does talk the talk sometimes).
Vote your conscience. Register for the Green Party.
Hillary Clinton just won’t be flexible. She really, really thinks she knows what’s best for the U.S., just like you-know-who. THAT is her problem, and she wants to shove her methods and approaches to big problems down the throats of the American voter. She has just had too many tet-a-tets with wealthy contributors. What must be doubly galling is that the American people have had enough of her husband as well. Too late we learned that his “middle of the road” policies was just another way to lead us into the debacle we are in. Oh, I certainly hope that Obama gets this message. We are Democrats and we believe that the Federal Government must represent the people and must work with the state governments who must represent the people, state by state. That is the kind of collaboration we want, not the kind that surrenders to the special Corporate interests in the marketplace and then calls it “bipartisanship”, etc. Like big fat ticks, the corporate investors (who profit from the building of prisons, the phony no child left behind testing materials, the war, natural disasters, etc.) have had their day. Obama, or Edwards, either one, must take heed of the voting temperament. We expect some balance in the collection and distribution of our tax dollars. But most importantly, bring the troops home now.
John Edwards was sincere.
It was obvious, and Barack Obama wasn’t. Edwards was talking to the audience; it wasn’t an attack; but Obama reacted like it was; Obama was backpedaling, losing his legs.
Hillary oblivious; Richardson daydreaming.
(If 50% NH are really undecided, we’ll see a change in the %s tomorrow.)
nayoibi January 5th, 2008 4:23 pm
“my gut instinct , tells me that hilliary has been pretending to be one of the ‘bad’ guys , so she could slip in their front door , so that she would be in a position to help us.”
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s most likely a duck, not the swan you are hoping for.
Lobo Gris
Perhaps someone has already said this, but nobody sounded as close to the republicans as Hillary did.
And for all those supporters for the candidates who polled less than 5%, please dont let the republicans win.
Perhaps you can make a difference by voting in a democrate, and not wasting a vote on a Naderlike character.
Unless the nominee picks Dennis as his running buddy, He does not seem to have a chance.
Perhaps he should make more noise in the next four years.
That might help his visibility.
Like most I have a lot of reservations about Obama but I believe he is the right candidate. Kucinich’s suggestion of Obama to his Iowa supporters in the second round is hardly a general recommendation but it does appear that Kucinich likes Obama more than the others. His support of Israel and lousy healthcare plan is unfortunate, but if Obama rides the progressive youth vote into victory he would be beholden to them like Bush owes the religious right, maybe. Obama is young and more capable of personal change than Hillary when his chief constituents demand it, I hope.
Obama/Edwards!
Why is no one talking about the DLC? The Clinton’s are both hard core DLC. In many ways they (and the DLC) are political failures (or devious successes!) yet they still have cult status, especially among those OVER 40. Edwards is DLC. His “progressive” “populist” message seems hard to swallow given his votes, his DLC membership, and his 10,000 sq foot house. (If being poor is so noble he could just give away some of his 10mil+ networth.) Oh, BTW you know who else is DLC? The guy who just endorsed McCain–Liebermann; the man who still holds the Democrats balls in the Senate.
I believe Obama and Richardson are NOT DLC. I am troubled no one seems to mention this when discussing matters. Obama is a largely unknown quantity. Richardson is a mixed bag but good on some things. I think a Obama/Richardson ticket is not the worst outcome. Many here seem upset (as am I) that the “democratic wing of the democratic party” is not being represented. Clearly, Kucinich is a “progressive” democrat and so is Gravel in a significantly different way–but baring a radical shift in consciousness they have had their campaigns effectively ended by the MSM and the democratic party. This is sad but alas true; I see it on the ground people.
There are some here that are disgusted with the Democratic party choices of the “frontrunners.” (Some say of those say go Green Party. Well, I would support a viable Green Party but it isnt–and dont blame me.)
So I recommend that they SUPPORT RON PAUL. Yea yea I hear the screams already. But listen carefully: 1) he scares the establishment 2) he has some progressive and populist policies (end empire, end drug war, restore civil liberties, end corporate welfare/subsidies) that the “main” democratic candidates dont even have 3) he would start to take the republican party back to its roots (which look pretty good these days!) 4) pulling the republicans back to the center/in a different direction on at least some issues will have a big effect on what democrats (and republicans) can discuss and make headway on
5) the guy raised 20 million (the most of any republican) in the fourth quarter from over 50,000 people donating less than 100 bucks on average 6) Bill Moyers had him on his show!! 7) if NH independents vote for him (44% of reg voters in NH are ind.) he could beat the other republicans. He is hands down the best protest vote IF you dont want to vote for a democrat.
Dont all get your panties all in a twist…only one vote will count on election day and that is DIEBOLD’S
wake up and smell the corruption
Policies matter “[ron paul] is hands down the best protest vote IF you dont want to vote for a democrat.”
you’re right there would be screaming. I would rather you guys re-elect bush and blow the whole world to smithereens, than elect some new kind of awful. What on earth would people who are progressive see in him. He is like diehard for the capitalist biggots. Yeah, he shuts down all of government handouts, but he also shuts down almost all government services! What does his version of government provide but a safer haven for rampant laissez faire capitalism and nothing else? He, for you less cautious “progressives” is the wolf in sheep’s clothing, if you are so naive to not see through it. You think he is some sort of benevolent anarchist who is going to make truly free markets, and stop the u.s dominance and interventionist policies. Bullshit. That is how our government protects its capital (or really the capital of the people in power, not so much the whole government.)
Ron Paul, no way, don’t vote for Kodos.
You mean bellwether, from the male sheep, often castrated, that lead the herd with a bell collar.
While we are all blaring on and on about how awful Hillary is, lets not forget that NONE of the front runners - OBAMA, EDWARDS, OR CLINTON - followed Chris Dodd to Washington to help him Fillibuster just before Iowa. What cowards. I am a Hillary supporter, but I really need an explaination on that one. For the “change” candidates, Edwards and Obama sure beat a path the other way when presented with an opportunity to stand up to “the system”. They let him hold the bag alone. So much for change. Or sticking their neck out even ONCE for the change they are going on and on about. But Obama has a history of that, for sure. Hope is not a plan, and hoping that he has some substance behind Hope, Hope, Hope, is like hoping that Rudy has more behind 9/11, 9/11, 9/11 than he has.
Hillary’s healthcare plan is the best, plain and simple. It’s been vetted, and she has the scars from the last fight to prove it. You don’t turn a ship this big around on a dime, it’s that simple. All this talk about radical change ignores the reality on the ground. We can’t get universal healthcare without talking to everyone and sitting them down at the table, unless you intend to nationalize the insurance industry in one swoop. And who will be doing that, exactly? Kusinich? He wasn’t even invited to participate in tonight’s deate. He’s dead, and it’s not because the “press” hates him. He’s been on the tube, even on the Daily Show, and folks just aren’t excited about him. Sorry, but I this is a computer I am typing on, not a wand. I can’t manufacture excitement just for all of you. And I need someone who can really change Washington, who knows everyone, and has some experience. I don’t love Hillary, but you know what? I don’t have to. I have to have a real sense that she can get the job done, and I get that from her. All this talk about inside the Beltway is just bullsh*t.They are ALL insiders, folks. This folksy demeaner is just an act, like Bush senior eating pork rinds every four years. Obama and his wife are both lawyers - so are Edwards and his wife. They are also all rich. So lets get over the idea that all of these people are innocent and pure, and that they will never lie to us, or disappoint us.
As exhibit A, I offer Edwards tonight. He certainly dogpiled on Hillary now that she isn’t the front runner. Kind of funny - wasn’t this the guy who was critical of Hillary in Iowa when she WAS the front-runner? He is a one-trick pony, attacking to show that he isn’t afraid of the big, bad, girl. In Iowa, his campaign was negative non-stop, I was there. Doing it with a smile doesn’t make you a nice guy - it makes you a jerk. ALL he can do is find fault, but it takes more than parroting the same phrase over and over to lead. If he thinks that he can bitch slap every large company in the US and they will just fall in line, his ego is bigger than I thought.
I got news for ya guys - WE are responsible for every large corp out there. Our buying power makes all of them possible. If you need to find the person responsible for the stranglehold these corps have on us, get off Hillary’s back - and go look into your bathroom mirror. The well-fed face staring back at you is the one who can’t do without all of the crap that these guys are selling. We build and destroy companies every day - and it has noting to do with tax breaks or back-room deals. Stop buying sh*t you can’t afford. And get informed about companies that you CAN get behind, ones that treat their people well, and don’t rape the environment. Or don’t buy it at all.
There are too many immediate problems for this country to have a learn-on-the-job president. As exhibit B, I offer the first Clinton White House, ironically enough. That was on the job training that cost several months, due to inexperience. We’ve been down this road before, people. The 90’s weren’t all bad. I remember them as decent for me and my family, and we were not well-off.
We also probably do not have the money to implement the fixes in the near-term that all of us progressive want. We owe more money than we have ever owed - you can’t hope you way out of that. And we need a plan out of Iraq. That will take at least a year. The logistical reality on the ground will not allow that to be any faster. And we need to decide to leave millions behind in new construction that will almost certainly be looted the minute we leave. Hey, if you can live with it, so can I, but we still have to pay the bill, plus interest, to the Chinese. The money has been spent in our name, and BushCo is going to ride off into the sunset giving us the finger all the way. So enough of this talk about change. There is going to be NO change for a while - just damage control. I feel a recession/depression coming on, and Clinton’s experience getting the debt under control will count for something. Not her experience, you say? Well, at least she won’t be putting the Arabian Horse Show guy in charge because he was roomies with a Bush buddy in college. She’ll find the best damn person, period, to fix the problem. Sometimes you need a Knight, and sometimes you need a Repairman. Ladies and Gentlemen, we need a Repairman this time. We’ve been punked, and it will take an experienced person to get us back on track. You don’t have to love her either, but she is the best candidate to do just that. Real change takes time, real reform, lasting reform, takes time. Unless we just go into every boardroom and just close them all down, we are going to have to talk to these corps. Why? Well, some of our fellow progressive work for them, for one thing. There are also others who are not the devil who work for them too. Let’s use our heads for something other than keeping our skulls from caving in. As the wall in New Orleans says, “hope is not a plan”.
andrewsac January 6th, 2008 3:38 am
“While we are all blaring on and on about how awful Hillary is, lets not forget that NONE of the front runners - OBAMA, EDWARDS, OR CLINTON - followed Chris Dodd to Washington to help him Fillibuster just before Iowa”
Edwards is not a Senator and therefore cannot filibuster in the Senate.
Lobo Gris
andrewsac January 6th, 2008 3:38 am
“The 90’s weren’t all bad. I remember them as decent for me and my family, and we were not well-off.”
Glad to hear that you and your family did all right in the nineties. But for others the nineties were the beginning of “free trade” implemented by Clinton and a Democratically led Congress which decimated large portions of the middle class in this country. Do I want a return to a party that turned on those who elected them? No thanks.
Lobo Gris
Juliana - RE:”The public is a whole lot wiser than most politicians think….Be proud, Americans, you are still out there.” Who the heck do you think got us into this mess? Who voted twice for Bush the lesser? Or if you think those elections were stolen, who let them stand? Who has not marched on Washington? How many get all their ‘facts’ from TV? How many actually vote?
Working together ‘the public’ could even now exert alot of power. But it’s hard work to even go to the voting booth, let alone become educated; perhaps too hard to forgoe some of our current pleasures; so we just keep returning to the forum to watch what happens. And considering the quality of information the public is fed, probably just as well if the turnout is low.
I noticed, Mr. Paul Bramscher, that your comments on Obama’s sucking up to AIPAC were generally ignored here, or dismissed as an “unfortunate” opportunist move. Likewise the observations from another poster that Obama is already linked up to the notorious cold warrior Zbigniew Brzinski, who, alongside Jimmy Carter, helped lead the foreign policy of this country into support for Islamic fundamentalism as an anti-communist strategy. You know, the very policy that brought us Osama bin Laden to begin with.
And how is this dealt with here? Well, the tone seems to be that the mystical fetish called the “youth vote” will keep any future President Obama on the straight and narrow. A laughable concept at best. I’ve taught high school in a number of settings in the last ten years, and I’ve not seen anything emerging among young people on any sort of mass base that indicates any tendency toward what many who post here like to call “progressive politics”. The underground hip hop movement, for example, held out much promise, until many of its leaders started dashing off after charlatans like Al Sharpton and P. Diddy.
How eager the “left” is to deny the blatantly obvious: that capitalism is simply incapable of generating a leadership that will lead society away from the abyss, and that if there’s any hope at all, it lies in the grassroots effort to organize democratic cels. Everything else is horseshit.
I always figured that people who leave comments (and read them) in endless threads like this are high school teachers.
It’s been said that “the eyes are the doorway to the soul.” Hillary may be tired, but I look into her eyes in this photo and see SOULESSNESS. It’s almost like the story of Daniel Webster and that age-old fable about making a pact with the devil. If “the devil” in modern times are the corporations that act without soul or conscience as they devour the planet’s people and resources, then perhaps she HAS made the payment. Something vital has been extracted from this woman. For all the education, she missed the KEY lesson to life! But power does have that way of corrupting absolutely. A friend of mine found a gold relic from a sunken treasure ship years ago and he said he STILL has “gold fever.” I suppose there’s a political equivalent to it, that all these corrupt politicians fall to.
justpassingthrough:
“Et tu, Brute?”
The only way to get the republic back is to return the power to mint money to the government.
Unless this is done you can vote your little hearts out,but there will be no change in the way the sheeple are governed by the elite.
Since Edwards is being ignored by
The Cr-ass Media.
He is the best choice.
Greed is the disease that is
Destroying our country.
It has to be addressed!
Greed is evil.
A negative human trait!
It works for a few very wealthy people but,
Is a failure for the rest of us.
Who ever The Cor’pirates’ like I
am against!
The time for baby steps is over.
The Republic has to learn how to walk.
The Time for Positive Creative Change is upon us.
This system is so dated and corrupt that it is imploding
From the weight of its own GREED.
The two party system is a sham.
It’s exclusive!
It excludes all opposition.
Our tent must be large enough to hold everybody!
It will take 24 years to reverse the effects of King George II.
Three times the amount of his own reign.
Some of the effects like the death, destruction and pollution can never be reversed.
His insanity must be stopped now!
We live in a time warp.
Bushzarro America!
Where everything is done backwards.
Where The King steals from the poor and gives to the rich.
Where the Resident loots his own Treasury!
He is the Captain of the U.S.Titanic
Headed straight for an iceberg!
Get in your life boats now,
Before it’s too late.
Divest yourselves from his Evil Empire as soon as possible.
It’s going down.
Stand back and clap!
eshu,
Hope and trust and usually ahead of wisdom in most people’s repertoires, especially young people. Hope is something we learn at a very young age, whereas wisdom is difficult to accumulate without a variety life’s experiences, education, mentoring, etc.
We’ve had 150 years of Democrats, and they’ve been reduced to a party which gives Bush basically anything he wants, refuses to impeach despite a huge laundry list. This is possible, I think, because it’s possible to re-fool people, each generaion anew — using the same old tricks.
Older progressives (50+) need to pass on their knowledge, one way or the other, to young people in ways such that the younger generation needn’t re-learn, be re-fooled, time and again. We need a mechanism to transmit progressive wisdom down the age pipeline, in as quick a manner as possible.
Obama is undoubtedly a crypto-neocon. And I suspect that the MSM is the sieve. Anyone who fails to court AIPAC, etc. may face a subtle media blackout. With any luck, perhaps in the next 10-20 years ahead, increasing numbers of people will be getting their news from blogs, places like CD, international sources, internet sources, etc. in which dynamic feedback and discussion is possible and people won’t need to be continually re-fooled against their own class interests.
Hillary may want to lead but I don’t want to follow - I want to be represented. We are not a flock of sheep. The Congress betrayed us and yesterday’s leftovers will do the same.
GARBOTOO - I thought that line was from Bugs Bunny
RE: - I just don’t think Dennis has the animal magnetism or is the father figure that Americans want in a president.
You make it sound as if all Americans are orphans. Naomi Klein is right - Giuliani is not her daddy. Alice Cooper is right:
You want to rule us with an iron hand
You change the lyrics and become Big Brother
This ain’t Russia, you ain’t my Dad or Mother
Giuliani and Romney freaked me out during that debate making Huckabee seem friendly.
Ron Paul reminded me of Magneto (X-men) because he seemed to want the same things Kucinich wants but when you start talking domestic policy he is after the poorest of the poor rather than corporate welfare bums. He seems to think that if you let Exxon be that they would solve all the world’s problems. I can also see him wearing that helmet and making chess pieces move (so I hope they do the spoof). Hey, if Air Farce can portray Harper as a cyborg who shoots lasers out of his eyes, Dion as a deranged owl and Layton as a bunny rabbit, they can do that for me.
BTW - when did the market place become part of the America Constitution.
Harper - Conservative - Prime Minister
Stephan Dion - Liberal
Jack Layton - NDP
RE: - My Buddy Phil Ochs had a Reagan script for victory in his closet that his Sister showed me and it said the way to win is not to talk details and hot issues because it gives people too many reasons to question and not vote for you.
At the beginning, one does go for generalities, but it is the job of the media to pin down the candidates as much as possible.
Edwards has only promised to remove COMBAT troops from Iraq and Aljazeera says that Kucinich: “has continued to call for not only US troop withdrawal but a removal of all US CONTRACTORS from the country.”
Thus, there are three groups of US military in Iraq:
Combat troops
Peace-keepers
US contractors
And Edwards only promised to pull one of those three groups out of Iraq and never ruled out increasing the number of either of the other two at any time prior to doing so. Clinton asked Edwards a direct question on this which Edwards did not really answer.
RE: - I’ve already heard several abecedarian offhand dismissals from local and national teevee infotainwhores, to wit: Edwards didn’t do well enough in Iowa to keep the money flowing; Edwards is therefore mortally wounded, will drop out sooner or later, and it’s now “really” a two-candidate race.
I heard that too and figured that the person was full of BS. I figured that the person who said it was just talking for one of the candidates.
RE: - Most politicians will deliberately remain as vague as they can get away with.
And when they try to remain so during Question Period, they seem to continue to get questions on the same topic over and over again. If the media and the other candidates don’t get Obama, Edwards Clinton and that guy with the round face I trust as much as Karlheinz Schreiber don’t get the eventual Democratic Presidential candidate to clarify his or her positions, I am sure that the Republican hopeful will be more than obliging in that regard.
RE: - Traditional political campaigning is just useless masterbation designed to control the masses.
Are you saying that it is all useless or just distinguishing between the useless and useful type.
And, to continue the metaphor - is it possible for a candidate to climax too soon? If so, Clinton may have done so already and Obama may be in the danger of doing so.
RE: - Martin Luther King, Jr. or Gandhi wouldn’t now just be “campaigning”; they’d be in jail.
Considering that Marc Emery (the Prince of Pot) has compared himself to both of these people and is now facing extradition to the US …
If Hoover could have had King jailed, there would have been no need to have him assassinated!
Now back to being serious.
It’s nice to see I’m not the only one that’s highly annoyed at how the corporate media is marginalizing John Edwards. Although it’s completely hypothetical, I am willing to be if Edwards got half the hype Barockstar gets he’d be leading in the polls.
BTW, anyone foolish enough to think Obama stands for change need only look at who is advising him. As much as a dislike Hillary and her equivocal policies stances she did rightly point out that a BIGPHARMA lobbyists runs Obama’s campaign in New Hampshire.
“How eager the “left” is to deny the blatantly obvious: that capitalism is simply incapable of generating a leadership that will lead society away from the abyss, and that if there’s any hope at all, it lies in the grassroots effort to organize democratic cels. Everything else is horseshit.”
Good observation eshu. Change must come from the bottom. Until the minds and hearts of the majority of ordinary people develop a new vision, and become active in the application of that vision, change will not happen. Change will not come from the top. No one person at the top has the capacity to comprehend or express the peoples vision. Decentralization is the key to real change. People must determine that vision and bring it to reality. Forget the idea of centralized change from on high.
“Change must come from the bottom.” (Doom n Gloom)
From the middle (class).
(clapping for williameon)
Ok, maybe not yet …
RE: - A vote for Hillary is a vote for Bush.
Sounds like a campaign slogan to me. Reminds me of a line of the Harland Colt song about Stephen Harper and George Bush: “There ain’t nothing gay about a Bush lovin’ man.”
A vote for Hillary is a vote for someone who will choose getting on the bandwagon over being right each and every time. If someone released a poll that those in NH prefer Maple walnut icecream - Hillary will come out as the greatest Maple walnut icecream lover of all time.
Ok, this time I am ready to be serious
RE: - John Edwards is the only one who has said he would pull our troops out of Iraq and end the occupation.
John Edwards never said that he would pull out all troops - only that he would pull out combat troops - there is a difference!
RE: - Keep your eyes and ears on C-SPAN, Road to the Whitehouse, get it unedited as it goes down.
As a Canadian, it is up to you guys to tell me when these things are going down so that I can watch them. I am more apt to have the TV on Newsworld or CPAC than CNN, ABC, CSPAN etc.
RE: - Poor Dennis Kucinich. He’s literally forgotten already by the so-called progressive community.
Hopefully, his ideas are not. As long as Kucinich’s ideas are discussed, the Dems are haunted by his ghost. Speaking of Kucinich, Clinton and that guy with the round face who figured that light debate was less civil than hostage negotiations both mentioned the Oil Law the US is trying to push on Iraq as a good thing. Edwards refrained commenting on it.
RE: - Edwards was talking to the audience; it wasn’t an attack; but Obama reacted like it was; Obama was backpedaling, losing his legs.
Obama I think was a little bit afraid that Edwards was going to go after him too (and was very careful to talk of listening to the people rather than of going after the Corporations directly). Hillary took the bait and said that
I figure that Edwards won. My mother said that Obama won but that Edwards seemed to be protecting Obama from attack during the debate. We both think that Hillary did not do that well.
RE: - Why is no one talking about the DLC?
What is DLC?
RE: - So I recommend that they SUPPORT RON PAUL. Yea yea I hear the screams already. But listen carefully: 1) he scares the establishment 2) he has some progressive and populist policies (end empire, end drug war, restore civil liberties, end corporate welfare/subsidies)
I don’t care if Ron Paul plans to end corporate subsidies, he still plans to leave Global warming up to Exxon. And he is not just against social programs for corporations - he is against them for people too. Those Charter schools they are setting up in New Orleans - he is not against them!
RE: - Hillary’s healthcare plan is the best, plain and simple. It’s been vetted, and she has the scars from the last fight to prove it.
The private insurance companies are not complaining any way.
Clinton did make Edwards point for him. Edwards did get this legislation through congress only to have it vetoed by Bush. Bush and Cheney are both known for their corporate connections.
RE: - I noticed, Mr. Paul Bramscher, that your comments on Obama’s sucking up to AIPAC were generally ignored here, or dismissed as an “unfortunate” opportunist move.
Which probably means that a quick two sentence definition of AIPAC is in order. Some will roll their eyes as to why you are explaining something everyone already knows. Others will be glad to finally know what you are talking about. Both will be able to comment if they so wish.
Kucinich has said to his supporters to vote for Obama. The young support Obama. Now, will that same “young” get off of their backsides and go out and vote? If they want Obama they have to vote, not sit back and hope or complain. They wanted the vote at 18 and their record so far has been dismal. Sorry, if you don’t want to serve on a jury and you think voting puts you there. Vote, your country depends on it. If you want Obama get off of your rear and vote. I’ve had it with this country and the apathy.
When Senator Edwards came to town last year, one of the local Unions suggested a $25 donation. When Senator Obama came to town, it too, was a $25 donation.
Gov Richardson was a bit pricy, his group wanted more, but would take a $50 donation.
When Hillary came to town, it was $1000 a head, no exceptions.
I met Edwards, Obama and Richardson. Although my favorite is Edwards–his wife is awesome–yet, I definitely could support Obama or Richardson. (Note: In person, Richardson seems the most human. Maybe because he is the last in the polls?)
But Hillary shut me out.
If this is what she does as a friggin’ candidate, what will she do as President?
I should also note that none of the Republicans allow you to see them for less than $500-$1000.
Hell-o? Who wants my vote? I understand fundraising, but $2000 per couple is not reality for most Americans.
As for sheer energy, no body rocks the house like Obama. Even in this red, red state, the kids there went wild. Most of them had never been to a political event before. It was a phenomonon.
If the youth vote, Obama can and will win.
MY 1st Choice: Kucinich
MY 2nd Choice: Gore
MY 3rd Choice: Edwards
Assuming this is true, don’t you find it interesting what the megamedia (and Common Dreams) decide is news fit for us serfs? What’s the big almighty deal if some of Obama’s supporters booed Hillary at opportune moments? Maybe they’re boorish idiots or maybe they were asked to do it by Obama’s campaign or maybe they were Republican plants. To me, it’s a nonissue no matter how CNN and Time try to slice it. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have other things to do–like keeping my underwear out of my crack till something important comes along.
Somewhere far above someone said “President Huckabee has a ring to it”—- I think it would be “President Hucksterbee” This boy has run scams all his adult life starting with Preacher—- don’t be surprised if he opens up the “Ten Commandments in the Courthouse” ploy—– Same old game—
Fundamentally, I think we as a NATION are OVERDUE for a woman and/or black (person-of-color, anyway) President.
However, I would NOT like to think that I’d voted FOR someone based on things as SHALLOW as GENDER or RACE, but that rather it was based on the PRINCIPLES that I believed the person stood for, REGARDLESS of his/her race.
That said, and I cannot explain why, Clinton, whom I was first pleased to see running, has been making me more and more uneasy. Uncertain.
Obama, I am OK with, completely.
But then, I am OK with Edwards completely, TOO.
PLUS from what I’ve gathered ONLY EDWARDS has a TRUE UNIVERSAL healthcare plan, and as an ex-RN with 24 years of experience, a person with hypertension, diabetes, HIV, CHF, COPD, ILD, LIP, LVH and RVH, bicuspid and tricuspid VP, an MI, and who wears oxygen 24-hours-a-day, now, I have always believed ALL should have decent access to healthcare, but NOW I believe it EVEN MORE.
That one thing pushed me toward Edwards, but someone said that getting HIS plan through would NOT happen because congress will NOT do it, and dthe Obaman’s plan has a chance.
Any thoughts on that?
I too am a Kucinich supporter and today I received this as his explanation of why he switched to Obama.
For the record:
1. New Hampshire is the first state where we are aggressively campaigning. Due to the Party lockout in Iowa, we chose to focus on New Hampshire.
2. I am the only person running for President who voted against the war, against funding the war 100% of the time, against the Patriot Act, and who stands for a universal single-payer not-for-profit healthcare system. Nevertheless I was excluded from Saturday night’s ABC Presidential debate, or four tone monologue as it was.
3. In answer to your questions about why I didn’t support former Senator John Edwards on the second ballot in Iowa: I have serious concerns about his connections to a Wall Street hedge fund, Fortress Investment Group. While attacking others for accepting campaign money from Washington lobbyists, he is up to his ears in money from Wall Street special interests.
He made half a million dollars in a single year for attending a few meetings for Fortress and has invested a substantial part of his own personal wealth in the hedge fund whose portfolios are responsible for sub-prime predatory lending practices, Medicare privatization, and an entire range of corporate sharp dealings that are driving the middle class into poverty.
While I indicated Senator Obama as a preferred second choice in Iowa, Progressives have fundamental disagreements with him and all of the other Presidential candidates on most of their major positions on the issues.
We must have the courage of our convictions to fully support and vote for what it is we really want. For once, we must realize our power, stop playing tactical games, and vote as a bloc - which, as you know, is what the religious right does and why they often win.
We Progressives are in the majority in this election. We will win only when we refuse to compromise and vote with integrity.
Dennis Kucinich
Eshu,
I recommend Howard Zinn’s The People’s History of the United States. Wish it were on the reading list of every Hgh School. A couple of groups have taken his approach to history and created (and performed staged readings) of People’s Histories of their community, town, etc. But there are numberess activist organisations
that provide history and/or current analyis. It’s all so accessible now: e.g websites: Friends National Committee for Legistlation, has been monitoring and lobbying Congress since 1943; The American Friends Service Committee domestic and international activism since 1917; “In Defense of American Liberties”, A History of the ACLU. And so many others since the internet.
911
diebold
watch out..
Eshu,
I recommend Howard Zinn’s The People’s History of the United States. Wish it were on the reading list of every Hgh School. A couple of groups have taken his approach to history and created (and performed People’s Histories of their community, town, etc. But there are numberess activist organisations that provide history and/or current analyis. It’sl so accessible now: e.g websites: Friends National Committee for Legistlation, FCNL, has been monitoring and lobbying Congress since 1943; The American Friends Service Committee, AFSC, domestic and international activism since 1917; “In Defense of American Liberties”, A History of the ACLU. And so man