Stormer's proposed questions are certainly important ones, but the neglects the basic and most important question: "Who made the initial order for those nuclear weapons to be moved?" It is hard to imagine that such a decision could be made at any level outside the White House.

Another point that no one has mentioned, but which I discuss in a forthcoming article in American Conservative magazine on this issue is why, if it was a "mistake" made at Minot involving personnel not realizing they were dealing with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles, why was the ground crew at Barksdale able to immediately spot the warheads as soon as they arrived at the plane? The Minot ground crew had to have been all over these warheads as they mounted the pylons on the B-52's wing--a process which reportedly took them eight hours--and in all that time, they couldn't see what the Barksdale guys saw in minutes?
Puleeze!
Which gets back to the prior writer's comment? If this was not a mistake, who ordered it and why?
Also, why has no investigator from the Defense Department even asked questions of the police investigators and coronors who investigated six strangely timed deaths involving personnel at Minot and Barksdale, and also a member of the Air Force Special Operations Command, all within several weeks of the flight? Some have brushed the deaths aside, especially those that occurred before the flight, as though it was impossible for them to be connected, but in an incident this bizarre and dangerous, one would think the DOD would want to check out every untimely death--and especially six untimely deaths, inclulding two "suicides."

Dave Lindorff
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net

If in effect, the pols and the military merely follow the corporate oligarchy who calls the shots, why are we deflecting the blame?

The only serious mistake was, ___ three men blew the whistle and the story of the "mistake" was printed in the Army Times newspaper.

The cover story now given after an exaustive "investigation", is actually quite funny. What the Bush administration is doing to our country and to the entire world, __ is not funny.

I have read that this is not the first incident of nukes being flown without proper clearance.
The first incident was out of Malta on trajectory to Cairo in 1967. If I recall it was never quite investigated either.

Scary stuff, especially when no one appears to be in control, no one is responsible for mistakes, no one has a clue as to Why stuff happens. Hard to believe that such a vast coterie of incompetents is running this country and nobody knows anything. Except for the Decider. He thinks he knows everything, so we have to assume that he knows all about the nuclear warheads that just happened to stray a tiny bit off course.
And, just because it happened in our country it is none of our damned business.

here is a bit
"He said that [Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara] had ordered that the aircraft be returned to the carrier, which was done. RADM Geis then said that he speculated that Washington may have suspected that the aircraft carried nuclear weapons "

from here http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11042 .
My first intro to the nuke from Malta to Cairo story came from somewhere else, but there is an ongoing thread of mystery here as well as there. Are they connected? The first was forty years ago!

Evidently someone just took six nuclear tipped cruise missles off the shelf by mistake. Obviously it was the stock boy back at the warehouse. Oh that kid.

Ask not who is to blame among the troops who serve: better to ask -- who ordered the weapons sold -- and -- who bought them?

Let's remember that these missiles were being flown over the United States itself. Is the insane degenerate in the White House, Baby Caligula, planning to launch an attack on, say, New York or San Francisco?

What we need is a good old-fashioned "official investigation" to really bury this story and hide the truth. "State Secrets" anyone?

I agree with Trevor...First we need a Commission, then we need to staff it with (who else) anyone remotely connected to said mishap. Second we need to publish the Commission's findings, make sure it gets on the NYT's top ten and third, forget the entire episode. Darn. Where is there a good Ken Starr when you need one?

Good questions Stormer asks.

My understanding is that an AGM 129 carrying nuclear warheads would be somewhat heavier than one carrying conventional warheads. Also, the nuclear warheads have different markings from the conventional.

One is puzzled to understand why the pilots did not notice the extra wieght or how the wrong markings were not noticed.

The bottom line is that this was not an accident. It was a rogue operation of some sort that didn't pan out as planned. Someone who wasn't in the loop or was, but balked at whatever was going on, blew the whistle.

These cruise missiles are to some extent stealth, that is they, to a degree, can approach their target undectected. The warheads use the "Dial Your Megadeath" technology, that is that can be set to yeilds of 15 to 150 kilotons (I'm not sure about the lower yield, but it is of that order).

AND, as soon as any nuclear weapons are loaded, they are guarded on the ground 24 hours a day. Deadly force authorized.

Coffeelover,,,,,,,

I thought we had defense teams who were supposed to detect any nuclear material inside the United States because terrorists might try to smuggle in a bomb and set it off.
I thought they could detect the movement of small amounts of nuclear material used in cancer treatment from one room in a hospital to another. Now I have to wonder, since they couldn't seem to detect the movement of these bombs.

I have heard that there was an intention to use them on Iran but this was stopped by saner elements within the government.

We can only hope, madlib....or pray! Take your pick! Saner elements? Wonder who they might be? You mean there actually ARE thinking people with an ounce of morality in THIS administration? You could have fooled ME!

Maybe it's time to take 'Junior' to the woodshed? Hey! He believes in capitol punishment, so corporal punishment should be just fine! Come on, George! Do you fatherly duty and beat some sense into this kid!! (Just be sure you do it in a place where it won't show. We don't need any more rumors of alcohol problems and bruises seem to do that!)

Please don't interpret this as a threat of any kind. I'm asking 'Daddy' to do his duty! That's ALL! Now there's fear for you. Something is working, isn't it? Intimidation works!!

Does anyone commenting here knowingly sensor what you say here? Is anyone else afraid of the Nazis among us? Thought control? NOPE! Mouth control? Yup!! WORKS!

If we agree that the US is now the only country that can bring about a worldwide nuclear disarmament, then we must also agree that if there is any nuclear explosion anywhere in the world, for any reason, the US is primarily responsible.

Dave Lindorff: Please expand on the 6 "untime" deaths of the soldiers. Were any of them related to those that got the weapons loaded on the plane? The whistleblowers? I've been waiting anxiously for follow-up on this story. Because this plane landed at the base that is the staging ground for armaments going to the Middle East, I am very concerned that these nukes were actually headed to Iran. And I agree that finding out who gave the order to transport these nukes in the first place is THE most important question. I smell Cheney in all this. He is a loose cannon and was too deeply involved with NORAD and the supposed airforce training flights on 9/11. I do not believe that Gates or DOD would be involved.

Then again, it's quite possible that no nuclear materials were actually involved. That the entire scenario was a hoax trying to raise a lot of ballyhoo to scare the shit out of Iran hoping to gain concessions. Do I read right?

Being highly suspect of actions by this errant criminal administration I wouldn't put it past them to have planned this whole fiasco. Think about it, Bush has signed a presidential directive giving him complete control over ALL branches of government in the event of a national emergency that he decides & declares. What better excuse to take control, initiate martial law, and cancel the upcoming elections than six lost nukes in the US? This was just a test drive folks.

Saila: No, you do NOT read right! This news was NEVER to have gotten out. And people are dying because it did and probably what they knew. The only reason we know about it at all is because of military whistle blowers. This is very serious stuff. And very scary!

whistle blowers are the good guys, they are the ones who have followed rules..and report! well done. please dont expect the public to believe the pilot/commander did NOT have any idea what the load was...neglect is not going to wash, the rules set out to handle HM/radioactive/munitions type materials are in place...and because of those material handling/shipping/identication rules, responsibility & responses should already be settled by now (a month later). ty Star Telegram plz follow up

Lindorff says: Also, why has no investigator from the Defense Department even asked questions of the police investigators and coronors who investigated six strangely timed deaths involving personnel at Minot and Barksdale, and also a member of the Air Force Special Operations Command, all within several weeks of the flight? Some have brushed the deaths aside, especially those that occurred before the flight, as though it was impossible for them to be connected, but in an incident this bizarre and dangerous, one would think the DOD would want to check out every untimely death–and especially six untimely deaths, inclulding two "suicides."

I won't hold my breath on this one. I'm still amazed at a "magic" bullet. The laws of physics always seem to be suspended for these guys. Ya know, like, ahhhhhh, coincidences happen!

The fact that they ended up at "an operational bomber base that just happens to be the staging area for Middle Eastern operations," is easy to miss but crucial for understanding where the order originated.

Did anyone notice that there were some news accounts that mentioned 5 nukes instead of 6? Cheney only needs one!

I am SO GLAD this story is back! And don't expect the mainstream media to help give it legs.

Snippet from the article:

"It is time that we got to the bottom of it through a comprehensive investigation."
------
An "investigation"? Time to get out Lee Hamilton, the little rat the federal government always taps when it wants to whitewash something.

If Cheney, Bush, half the Democrats, etc. were indeed planning to nuke Iran, then the particulars of the mission would have been as secret as the Enola Gay. We should expect that level of secrecy.

The US did not deny its dropping of the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I mean, you can't exactly cover up a nuclear bomb blast once it goes off.

But is there any indication that these were to be dropped and then blamed on someone else?

RE: Paul Bramscher October 9th, 2007 7:26 pm

If a nuclear device were detonated in the US how would the average citizen know who did it? Google 'false flag operations' or 'false flag wars' and you will see a long history of one nation starting a war then blaming it on someone else. Hitler did it, Isreal has done it, and likewise the US in Viet Nam. Fascist governments are without conscience or scruples; just take a look at our present administration, and tell me if you feel safe with these bimbos in charge of nuclear devices. These guys are much more to be feared than OBL hiding in a Pakistani cave (if he isn't actually luxuriating in Crawford TX instead...oh, that's right, Crawford already has their own village idiot).

How about calling this one "Operation Staelth and Lie" instead of "Shock and Awe" that was used so successfully in Iraq?

This was about as accidental as the Kennedy assaination...

In order to shock a nation into accepting drastic changes in the way that the government operates and drastic increases in governmental powers requires a disaster of some kind such as 9/11 or say a nuclear attack by a rogue nation.
Some 'rogue nation' was possibly going to provide the excuse for a whole new system of things here in the U.S.A. Where those bombs were (or are) going to fall is anybody's guess.
But of course that whole idea is just too far out in left field to be more than a possible plot for a good thriller movie. Right?

Does anyone know how nuclear weapons are sold to Israel?
On transport manifests are the weapons labeled as such?

Could it be a "dry run"? A "test"? A "feasibility study"? How many people did it take to pull this off? What's the possibility that this was not an accident? How easy, or difficult, would this be to do again? And finally, Who SAYS SO? THOSE are the questions that need to be addressed

I'm thinking that they were going to do another 9/11, this time with nukes [maybe stopped by a few heroic people in the military who wouldn't roll over and desert their sworn duty]. Reports of mysterious deaths of people involved have been reported but nothing of it by our controlled media. The whole affair on mainstream media has been reported as just some snafu [impossible]. After the act there would be no discussion between the populace and our dictators. The propaganda is already in place and ready to be barraged upon the public by our totally controlled mass media like the way it was with 9/11. The guilty parties would then give perfect justification right on cue. The attack Against Iran would start shortly thereafter.
If they wiped out the decent people protecting us from these maniacs there might be no one to stop them the next time.

Have you noticed that after nearly 7 years in office that the Decider, Chimpy McFlightsuit, is still the same moron he was as Governor of Texas. Molly Ivins, rest her soul, knew he was dumber than a box of rocks and shouldn't be in charge of a rubber gun boat, but that seems to still be OK with 1/3 of the nation.....now that is the scary part. Speaking of scary has anyone seen Darth Cheney lately? Wonder what ol' Snarly is up to?

No. The question is: where are those weapons now? Were they bought? Getting all balled up in the battle over mistake/no mistake in transport is diverting everyone away from where those missiles are or who they were given/sold to and...why did one of them disappear? Right before the public eye.

Yes. The story should not die. But the story should go beyond itself to the questions of import noted above. While we're bitching about this incident, what's happening to these 6 nuclear warheads? Are they being downgraded to nuclear reactor grade uranium to supply the new batch of such Bushies want? Are they to be sold to the Iranians and then used to prove the Iranians have nuclear weapons so we can wipe them off the map?

Presumably the President gave the order to stage these missiles to Barksdale AFB for delivery to the Middle East if he so chooses.

Incidentally, Operation Vigilant Shield is on October 15-20.

http://www.northcom.mil/News/2007/VS-08_fact_sheet.pdf

Among other things, it provides USNORTHCOM opportunities to exercise defense support of civil authorities in the execution of Department of Defense Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear, or Highyield
Explosive response plans and coordinate AntiTerrorism/Force Protection activities.

Maybe these little babies are Cheney's ace in the hole. After his term is over, they'll go to his private bunker -- the proverbial undisclosed location and presumably offshore -- to keep Pelosi and ilk at bay?

I don't believe in accidents. The very best that can be said about this is that it is total incompetence. Any other scenario involves corruption or other criminal action.

Just Great. "A few good men" blew the whistle... then: Personel evaporating...... suddenly, life just wasn't "worth-it" at the whistled air bases.

Code Red suicides? This thing has got Lee-Harvey-Ozwald cover-up written all over it. And do I understand this right? Air Force cronies are handling the investigation? Air Farce investigating itself?

Well at least the "GO CODE" was not issued to protect our bodily fluids.....

pac "Dr. Strangelove" plyer

Rebel Farmer,

The reason I tend to think that the entire operation was a hoax as I mentioned above is this:

The US has 170 warships plus 3 aircraft carriers, and probably some undeclared nuclear carrying subs in and around the Persian Gulf equipped with all types of smart and dumb missiles and what you got. Do you not think that some of them may actually carry nuclear bombs, not originally intended for Iran, but as a matter of readiness and being closer to targets in case the US mainland suddenly comes under nuclear attack?

The story tells me that if the US suddenly comes under nuclear attack it would take about 10 hours to just load these bombs on aircrafts. This is hard to believe.

Additionally, the rumor about the US attack and possible use of nukes is several months old. Do you not think that the US would have, and should have, already dispatched the nukes just in case it had to use them? The US probably has nukes in at least some of its nearly 1000 military bases around the world, some damn close to Iran and does not have to spend hours and have it delivered from California. It simply doesn't make sense.

In the Air Force's initial response, this phrase jumped out at me: "the nukes should have been removed before the plane went on to Barksdale", implying to me, that they were already loaded on the plane and that it came from somewhere BEFORE Minot. I'm not a military person, but I SURE can understand the term CHAIN OF COMMAND! A 'chain of command' procedure is developed specifically to absolutely prevent any 'accidents' or mistakes. Get real everybody. BushCo has not created all this power for himself just to quietly leave office in '09. But what they are up to is anybody's guess. Rest assured that whatever it is, it will be full of 'shock and awe'. Bush has seemed to relish creating as much chaos, blood and death as possible. I think the reason they went after the Wilsons so viciously was not because they would be caught in their lies, as much as it was they were terrified the war may be stopped if the truth were known.

Never mind the investigations... just waterboard them all; it's legal and everything.

Good instincts, AZgirl8!
These actions have not been accidental or stupid; they have been deliberate.
All of it; the Iraq invasion, the torture, the degradation of the Justice Department, spying on and mistreating American citizens, the destruction of New Orleans, etceteras; all deliberate.
Now, imagine the real intent; trust your instincts!

Don't hold your breath on getting answers to those questions.

"State secrets sorry can't tell you anymore, you know what I mean?" *wink*

If you believe the Earth is round and bears poop in the woods, you can believe this: ____ Those nukes were not accidently loaded on that aircraft and the crew chief and his team, the flight crew, the wing commander, the base commander, maintenance control and any others involved, ___ were fully aware thay were hauling nuclear weapons.

I understand that six or seven military personnel who were involved with the mission, including a pilot, have died from accidents since this incident has been reported. If that is a fact, the odds of such would be astronomical. ____ If something smells like a hog fart, it probably is a hog fart.

One person, one name - Cheney.

Good. But why move them? Why JUST move them? Why JUST move them right now?