Libertas, counting all the false moves made by the gov since 2000 one would need all of Bush's fingers and toes.

Possibly Cheney's hooves also.

What about one false move by us?

Mike Corbeil: Caught me speculating, fair cop.

Let me attempt to better state my previous post.

I proceed with this assumption: that anyone aware of even a little of the accumulated knowledge regarding the use of nuclear weapons would not authorise preemptive strikes. Clearly it would be insane to do so even if one were only ignoring the closure of the Straits of Hormuz, a real possibility in the case of attacking Iran (many analysts agree - see CD archives).

Since it seems unlikely anyone would consider using nukes and that they are closely monitored with maximum security access only, I speculate it was no accident they were moved.

Speculation two: motive would be to gain advantage rattling and pressuring Iran. One false move by Iran is all that is needed by neocons to further their Middle Eastern intentions.

I've writen about this incident twice and investigated as far as I can as a civilian. The key point to me and not mentioned is that the flight crew would know the type of payload they had as soon as the missiles were hooked to the weapons pylon on the B-52H. No maybes about it. The discussion board at Military Times was filled with highly irate professionals providing great detail about the great number of problems generated by the official cover story. As some have noted, the military is anal about security and proper procedure regarding everything, and this goes triple for anything to do with NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical). In fact, I would suspect the whistleblowers were the flight crew.

I found this article, which seems to support my speculations above. Interesting reading.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6909

Ah, we finally found the weapons of mass destruction.

This nuke "mistake" is just the equivalent of a "leak"

They are mentally prepping Americans for the idea that nukes may be used in the Mideast.

really, are you kidding me, didn't notice the F'ing nuke missiles? rigghhht.

I don't know if this is too Machiavellian or not, I wouldn't put anything past this gang, but consider the fact that the military has repeatedly expressed reluctance to go to war with Iran, for many reasons.

If the above mentioned bomber, or some other secret mission had succeeded in "Pearl Harboring" Iran, Iran would have no choice but to strike back in self defense, not to mention they would have the same feelings we had in December of '41.

Our military would then have to go for broke as it would be under attack itself. The neocons would win again and we would be involved in a total war, despite sanity and misgivings amongst our own general staff.

I have written my alleged representatives many times, asking them to carefully evaluate any black op (aka false flag) that seems to point us towards a war, before jumping on the bandwagon. Remember the Maine and the Gulf of Tonkin, and perhaps 9-11 (the jury is still out on that one). The ultimate black op would be a sneak attack upon Iran, by, say, one bomber laden with nuclear cruise missiles. Dr Strangelove lives?

ditto

Based on Samski's and libertas fugit's posts since the one I made, I strongly suggest that people reading through the comments on this Nuke ... article carefully and thoroughly read the articles I've posted links for here, above.

It's not that I wholly disagree with either of their posts; only disagreeing a little. It's mainly that it's much better to do very careful and sufficiently thorough reading of important articles from quality sources, before bothering with speculations that are either not well thought out, or are too inadequately stated.

Madsen and Engdahl are providing very important articles and everyone should make reading these a MUST matter. Everyone will only learn PLENTY from reading from the best sources on the critical issues of today, and those two people are among such sources. David Lindorff's piece that he says he's writing for soon publication is a piece that I'm looking forward to; I've read plenty of quality articles of his to know to look forward to this one that'll minimally include careful treatment of the topic of the six untimely, unexpected deaths, including two suicides, and certainly seeming worthy of suspicion, that is, very careful investigation.

The Wayne Madsen article I referred to strikes me as one that should be a strong enough complement with respect to the six very untimely, unexpected deaths, including two suicides.

The following article also posted at www.globalresearch.ca and which I just read will be a strong complementary piece with respect to a major reason why the CHENEY-Bush regime might or would, or does want to war on Iran.

"War and "Peak Oil": Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer",
by F. William Engdahl, Sept. 26, 2007

I'd provide a direct link for the article, but as already said, I've had posts with such links completely removed and for what struck me as absolutely being NO valid reason, before, and here, so I'll just provide the above homepage url and article information.

That article not only provides a clearly strong reason on why Cheney wants war on Iran, but also with respect to the strong U.S. and NATO encroachment on or against Russia.

Both very important articles.

Unless I misread the timing on this incident, it took place about the time Israel hit Syria. If the B-52 were airborne, with six live missiles on board, and the Syrian raid had unleashed a strong reaction, all it would take is a go code from CENTCOM to divert to Iran. If it weren't fully tanked up, a refueling could take place enroute. Essentially, no one would know about this attack except a few "Top Secret cleared or above" personnel. The first thing we would know about it was when the missiles hit their targets in Iran and possibly Syria.

I have a hunch that the only thing that put that bomber down at Barksdale was the lack of response from Syria for the apparently unprovoked "pre-emptive" raid on its facilities.

This gang is looking for any excuse, and it is rumored that they occasionally cooperate very closely with Israel.

if this was an intentional 'loss' of arms, with whistleblowing expected, I suspect the end result was to pressure/rattle the Iranians.

(it would also serve well as a test of domestinc public opinion regarding nuclear first-strikes)

Thanks Mike. These revelations are explosive. Here is the direct link.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6909

I haven't read the full article yet, only around half, but it's enough for me to say that people wanting to seriously read on the topic of these six nuclear-tipped or -warhead cruise missiles and so on should certainly include the following article, which I'm reading at www.globalresearch.ca right now, and which can be found by looking down the list of links in the homepage, else via the authors index, the 'M' one.

"B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran: Air Force refused to fly weapons to Middle East theater",
by Wayne Madsen, Wayne Madsen Report, Sept 27, 2007

I've had GR links here removed before so will just provide the title of the article and the author's name.

In the Oaths of Enlistment and Office the member swears to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. I never had a problem identifying the foreign enemies. Which was defined with every step I took. Strangely though I had a tough time identifying what a domestic enemy might look like, or how I might defend against it. Well, live long enough and you are sure to learn something. Becasue, today I believe I can distinctly identify a domestic enemy. However, I am still not sure how to properly defend against it.

I like my own theory best. Cheney wasn't going to nuke Israel, the US, or some other random country and blame it on the Iranians. But rather he was planning for retirement and didn't want anyone going after him or his interests. He was simply moving a few nukes to a private army/Blackwater facility guarding Dubai-based Halliburton, his Saudi prince bosses, etc. So even if Bush pardons his entire administration, and by some fluke every Democrat is voted out of office -- and we get an opposition party instead -- there's really nothing anyone can do to prosecute Cheney. Unless they want a nuke to detonate in their general vicinity. Would make a decent Clive Cussler or James Bond plot anyway.

The other possibility is that there were never were any nukes. It was a fake mission -- a dry-run -- to test for leaks. Perhaps the government runs them on a regular basis as loyalty tests to weed out the saner elements, and replace them with unquestioning robots?

Ok people. Enough with all the conspiracies. This was nothing more than a simple typographical goof. Cheney wanted them moved, so he told Bush to order it. Bush couldn't find the paperwork that said "nuculer", so used the "nuclear" form instead, because he thought it looked closest to "nuculer" than anything else in the supply room. Paperwork got messed up, messages didn't get sent to the right people, mistakes were made. Ah, if only the "leader of the free world" was a reader... But on the bright side, he did find a neat purple Sharpie that he now likes to use on all those secret Signing Statements he's been sneaking through.

Yeah the fix is definitely in. Especially bringing in the same connected players; you should be able to trace the fixers to the culprits:

In 1998 he spent several months on the Rumsfeld Commission, which reported to Congress on the ballistic missile threat to the United States.
==

Now apparently Maj. Gen. Douglas Raaberg can not be trusted to go through the motions, and they can't have another Taguba moment (http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo05242004.html) with the report that will eventually come out on this, probably around the time Bush is scheduled to leave office...and of course it's findings will be buried in his sealed archives.

Welch is currently president of the Institute for Defense Analyses in Alexandria, Virginia.[1]. He is also on the board of directors of CACI International,[2] the company that provided contracted civilian interrogators to Abu Ghraib, and on the board of directors of the Henry L. Stimson Center, [3] a think tank which describes itself as a nonprofit, nonpartisan institution devoted to enhancing international peace and security through a unique combination of rigorous analysis and outreach.[4]. He is also a member of the Defense Science Board.[5]

Good. But why move them? Why JUST move them? Why JUST move them right now?

One person, one name - Cheney.

If you believe the Earth is round and bears poop in the woods, you can believe this: ____ Those nukes were not accidently loaded on that aircraft and the crew chief and his team, the flight crew, the wing commander, the base commander, maintenance control and any others involved, ___ were fully aware thay were hauling nuclear weapons.

I understand that six or seven military personnel who were involved with the mission, including a pilot, have died from accidents since this incident has been reported. If that is a fact, the odds of such would be astronomical. ____ If something smells like a hog fart, it probably is a hog fart.

Don't hold your breath on getting answers to those questions.

"State secrets sorry can't tell you anymore, you know what I mean?" *wink*

Good instincts, AZgirl8!
These actions have not been accidental or stupid; they have been deliberate.
All of it; the Iraq invasion, the torture, the degradation of the Justice Department, spying on and mistreating American citizens, the destruction of New Orleans, etceteras; all deliberate.
Now, imagine the real intent; trust your instincts!

Never mind the investigations... just waterboard them all; it's legal and everything.

In the Air Force's initial response, this phrase jumped out at me: "the nukes should have been removed before the plane went on to Barksdale", implying to me, that they were already loaded on the plane and that it came from somewhere BEFORE Minot. I'm not a military person, but I SURE can understand the term CHAIN OF COMMAND! A 'chain of command' procedure is developed specifically to absolutely prevent any 'accidents' or mistakes. Get real everybody. BushCo has not created all this power for himself just to quietly leave office in '09. But what they are up to is anybody's guess. Rest assured that whatever it is, it will be full of 'shock and awe'. Bush has seemed to relish creating as much chaos, blood and death as possible. I think the reason they went after the Wilsons so viciously was not because they would be caught in their lies, as much as it was they were terrified the war may be stopped if the truth were known.

Rebel Farmer,

The reason I tend to think that the entire operation was a hoax as I mentioned above is this:

The US has 170 warships plus 3 aircraft carriers, and probably some undeclared nuclear carrying subs in and around the Persian Gulf equipped with all types of smart and dumb missiles and what you got. Do you not think that some of them may actually carry nuclear bombs, not originally intended for Iran, but as a matter of readiness and being closer to targets in case the US mainland suddenly comes under nuclear attack?

The story tells me that if the US suddenly comes under nuclear attack it would take about 10 hours to just load these bombs on aircrafts. This is hard to believe.

Additionally, the rumor about the US attack and possible use of nukes is several months old. Do you not think that the US would have, and should have, already dispatched the nukes just in case it had to use them? The US probably has nukes in at least some of its nearly 1000 military bases around the world, some damn close to Iran and does not have to spend hours and have it delivered from California. It simply doesn't make sense.

Just Great. "A few good men" blew the whistle... then: Personel evaporating...... suddenly, life just wasn't "worth-it" at the whistled air bases.

Code Red suicides? This thing has got Lee-Harvey-Ozwald cover-up written all over it. And do I understand this right? Air Force cronies are handling the investigation? Air Farce investigating itself?

Well at least the "GO CODE" was not issued to protect our bodily fluids.....

pac "Dr. Strangelove" plyer

I don't believe in accidents. The very best that can be said about this is that it is total incompetence. Any other scenario involves corruption or other criminal action.

Maybe these little babies are Cheney's ace in the hole. After his term is over, they'll go to his private bunker -- the proverbial undisclosed location and presumably offshore -- to keep Pelosi and ilk at bay?

Incidentally, Operation Vigilant Shield is on October 15-20.

http://www.northcom.mil/News/2007/VS-08_fact_sheet.pdf

Among other things, it provides USNORTHCOM opportunities to exercise defense support of civil authorities in the execution of Department of Defense Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear, or Highyield
Explosive response plans and coordinate AntiTerrorism/Force Protection activities.

Presumably the President gave the order to stage these missiles to Barksdale AFB for delivery to the Middle East if he so chooses.

No. The question is: where are those weapons now? Were they bought? Getting all balled up in the battle over mistake/no mistake in transport is diverting everyone away from where those missiles are or who they were given/sold to and...why did one of them disappear? Right before the public eye.

Yes. The story should not die. But the story should go beyond itself to the questions of import noted above. While we're bitching about this incident, what's happening to these 6 nuclear warheads? Are they being downgraded to nuclear reactor grade uranium to supply the new batch of such Bushies want? Are they to be sold to the Iranians and then used to prove the Iranians have nuclear weapons so we can wipe them off the map?

Have you noticed that after nearly 7 years in office that the Decider, Chimpy McFlightsuit, is still the same moron he was as Governor of Texas. Molly Ivins, rest her soul, knew he was dumber than a box of rocks and shouldn't be in charge of a rubber gun boat, but that seems to still be OK with 1/3 of the nation.....now that is the scary part. Speaking of scary has anyone seen Darth Cheney lately? Wonder what ol' Snarly is up to?

I'm thinking that they were going to do another 9/11, this time with nukes [maybe stopped by a few heroic people in the military who wouldn't roll over and desert their sworn duty]. Reports of mysterious deaths of people involved have been reported but nothing of it by our controlled media. The whole affair on mainstream media has been reported as just some snafu [impossible]. After the act there would be no discussion between the populace and our dictators. The propaganda is already in place and ready to be barraged upon the public by our totally controlled mass media like the way it was with 9/11. The guilty parties would then give perfect justification right on cue. The attack Against Iran would start shortly thereafter.
If they wiped out the decent people protecting us from these maniacs there might be no one to stop them the next time.

Could it be a "dry run"? A "test"? A "feasibility study"? How many people did it take to pull this off? What's the possibility that this was not an accident? How easy, or difficult, would this be to do again? And finally, Who SAYS SO? THOSE are the questions that need to be addressed

Does anyone know how nuclear weapons are sold to Israel?
On transport manifests are the weapons labeled as such?

In order to shock a nation into accepting drastic changes in the way that the government operates and drastic increases in governmental powers requires a disaster of some kind such as 9/11 or say a nuclear attack by a rogue nation.
Some 'rogue nation' was possibly going to provide the excuse for a whole new system of things here in the U.S.A. Where those bombs were (or are) going to fall is anybody's guess.
But of course that whole idea is just too far out in left field to be more than a possible plot for a good thriller movie. Right?

This was about as accidental as the Kennedy assaination...

How about calling this one "Operation Staelth and Lie" instead of "Shock and Awe" that was used so successfully in Iraq?

RE: Paul Bramscher October 9th, 2007 7:26 pm

If a nuclear device were detonated in the US how would the average citizen know who did it? Google 'false flag operations' or 'false flag wars' and you will see a long history of one nation starting a war then blaming it on someone else. Hitler did it, Isreal has done it, and likewise the US in Viet Nam. Fascist governments are without conscience or scruples; just take a look at our present administration, and tell me if you feel safe with these bimbos in charge of nuclear devices. These guys are much more to be feared than OBL hiding in a Pakistani cave (if he isn't actually luxuriating in Crawford TX instead...oh, that's right, Crawford already has their own village idiot).

If Cheney, Bush, half the Democrats, etc. were indeed planning to nuke Iran, then the particulars of the mission would have been as secret as the Enola Gay. We should expect that level of secrecy.

The US did not deny its dropping of the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I mean, you can't exactly cover up a nuclear bomb blast once it goes off.

But is there any indication that these were to be dropped and then blamed on someone else?

Snippet from the article:

"It is time that we got to the bottom of it through a comprehensive investigation."
------
An "investigation"? Time to get out Lee Hamilton, the little rat the federal government always taps when it wants to whitewash something.

The fact that they ended up at "an operational bomber base that just happens to be the staging area for Middle Eastern operations," is easy to miss but crucial for understanding where the order originated.

Did anyone notice that there were some news accounts that mentioned 5 nukes instead of 6? Cheney only needs one!

I am SO GLAD this story is back! And don't expect the mainstream media to help give it legs.

Lindorff says: Also, why has no investigator from the Defense Department even asked questions of the police investigators and coronors who investigated six strangely timed deaths involving personnel at Minot and Barksdale, and also a member of the Air Force Special Operations Command, all within several weeks of the flight? Some have brushed the deaths aside, especially those that occurred before the flight, as though it was impossible for them to be connected, but in an incident this bizarre and dangerous, one would think the DOD would want to check out every untimely death–and especially six untimely deaths, inclulding two "suicides."

I won't hold my breath on this one. I'm still amazed at a "magic" bullet. The laws of physics always seem to be suspended for these guys. Ya know, like, ahhhhhh, coincidences happen!

whistle blowers are the good guys, they are the ones who have followed rules..and report! well done. please dont expect the public to believe the pilot/commander did NOT have any idea what the load was...neglect is not going to wash, the rules set out to handle HM/radioactive/munitions type materials are in place...and because of those material handling/shipping/identication rules, responsibility & responses should already be settled by now (a month later). ty Star Telegram plz follow up

Saila: No, you do NOT read right! This news was NEVER to have gotten out. And people are dying because it did and probably what they knew. The only reason we know about it at all is because of military whistle blowers. This is very serious stuff. And very scary!

Being highly suspect of actions by this errant criminal administration I wouldn't put it past them to have planned this whole fiasco. Think about it, Bush has signed a presidential directive giving him complete control over ALL branches of government in the event of a national emergency that he decides & declares. What better excuse to take control, initiate martial law, and cancel the upcoming elections than six lost nukes in the US? This was just a test drive folks.

Then again, it's quite possible that no nuclear materials were actually involved. That the entire scenario was a hoax trying to raise a lot of ballyhoo to scare the shit out of Iran hoping to gain concessions. Do I read right?

Dave Lindorff: Please expand on the 6 "untime" deaths of the soldiers. Were any of them related to those that got the weapons loaded on the plane? The whistleblowers? I've been waiting anxiously for follow-up on this story. Because this plane landed at the base that is the staging ground for armaments going to the Middle East, I am very concerned that these nukes were actually headed to Iran. And I agree that finding out who gave the order to transport these nukes in the first place is THE most important question. I smell Cheney in all this. He is a loose cannon and was too deeply involved with NORAD and the supposed airforce training flights on 9/11. I do not believe that Gates or DOD would be involved.

If we agree that the US is now the only country that can bring about a worldwide nuclear disarmament, then we must also agree that if there is any nuclear explosion anywhere in the world, for any reason, the US is primarily responsible.

Maybe it's time to take 'Junior' to the woodshed? Hey! He believes in capitol punishment, so corporal punishment should be just fine! Come on, George! Do you fatherly duty and beat some sense into this kid!! (Just be sure you do it in a place where it won't show. We don't need any more rumors of alcohol problems and bruises seem to do that!)

Please don't interpret this as a threat of any kind. I'm asking 'Daddy' to do his duty! That's ALL! Now there's fear for you. Something is working, isn't it? Intimidation works!!

Does anyone commenting here knowingly sensor what you say here? Is anyone else afraid of the Nazis among us? Thought control? NOPE! Mouth control? Yup!! WORKS!

We can only hope, madlib....or pray! Take your pick! Saner elements? Wonder who they might be? You mean there actually ARE thinking people with an ounce of morality in THIS administration? You could have fooled ME!

I have heard that there was an intention to use them on Iran but this was stopped by saner elements within the government.

I thought we had defense teams who were supposed to detect any nuclear material inside the United States because terrorists might try to smuggle in a bomb and set it off.
I thought they could detect the movement of small amounts of nuclear material used in cancer treatment from one room in a hospital to another. Now I have to wonder, since they couldn't seem to detect the movement of these bombs.

AND, as soon as any nuclear weapons are loaded, they are guarded on the ground 24 hours a day. Deadly force authorized.

Coffeelover,,,,,,,

Good questions Stormer asks.

My understanding is that an AGM 129 carrying nuclear warheads would be somewhat heavier than one carrying conventional warheads. Also, the nuclear warheads have different markings from the conventional.

One is puzzled to understand why the pilots did not notice the extra wieght or how the wrong markings were not noticed.

The bottom line is that this was not an accident. It was a rogue operation of some sort that didn't pan out as planned. Someone who wasn't in the loop or was, but balked at whatever was going on, blew the whistle.

These cruise missiles are to some extent stealth, that is they, to a degree, can approach their target undectected. The warheads use the "Dial Your Megadeath" technology, that is that can be set to yeilds of 15 to 150 kilotons (I'm not sure about the lower yield, but it is of that order).

I agree with Trevor...First we need a Commission, then we need to staff it with (who else) anyone remotely connected to said mishap. Second we need to publish the Commission's findings, make sure it gets on the NYT's top ten and third, forget the entire episode. Darn. Where is there a good Ken Starr when you need one?

What we need is a good old-fashioned "official investigation" to really bury this story and hide the truth. "State Secrets" anyone?

Let's remember that these missiles were being flown over the United States itself. Is the insane degenerate in the White House, Baby Caligula, planning to launch an attack on, say, New York or San Francisco?

Ask not who is to blame among the troops who serve: better to ask -- who ordered the weapons sold -- and -- who bought them?

Evidently someone just took six nuclear tipped cruise missles off the shelf by mistake. Obviously it was the stock boy back at the warehouse. Oh that kid.

here is a bit
"He said that [Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara] had ordered that the aircraft be returned to the carrier, which was done. RADM Geis then said that he speculated that Washington may have suspected that the aircraft carried nuclear weapons "

from here http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11042 .
My first intro to the nuke from Malta to Cairo story came from somewhere else, but there is an ongoing thread of mystery here as well as there. Are they connected? The first was forty years ago!

Scary stuff, especially when no one appears to be in control, no one is responsible for mistakes, no one has a clue as to Why stuff happens. Hard to believe that such a vast coterie of incompetents is running this country and nobody knows anything. Except for the Decider. He thinks he knows everything, so we have to assume that he knows all about the nuclear warheads that just happened to stray a tiny bit off course.
And, just because it happened in our country it is none of our damned business.

I have read that this is not the first incident of nukes being flown without proper clearance.
The first incident was out of Malta on trajectory to Cairo in 1967. If I recall it was never quite investigated either.

The only serious mistake was, ___ three men blew the whistle and the story of the "mistake" was printed in the Army Times newspaper.

The cover story now given after an exaustive "investigation", is actually quite funny. What the Bush administration is doing to our country and to the entire world, __ is not funny.

If in effect, the pols and the military merely follow the corporate oligarchy who calls the shots, why are we deflecting the blame?

Another point that no one has mentioned, but which I discuss in a forthcoming article in American Conservative magazine on this issue is why, if it was a "mistake" made at Minot involving personnel not realizing they were dealing with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles, why was the ground crew at Barksdale able to immediately spot the warheads as soon as they arrived at the plane? The Minot ground crew had to have been all over these warheads as they mounted the pylons on the B-52's wing--a process which reportedly took them eight hours--and in all that time, they couldn't see what the Barksdale guys saw in minutes?
Puleeze!
Which gets back to the prior writer's comment? If this was not a mistake, who ordered it and why?
Also, why has no investigator from the Defense Department even asked questions of the police investigators and coronors who investigated six strangely timed deaths involving personnel at Minot and Barksdale, and also a member of the Air Force Special Operations Command, all within several weeks of the flight? Some have brushed the deaths aside, especially those that occurred before the flight, as though it was impossible for them to be connected, but in an incident this bizarre and dangerous, one would think the DOD would want to check out every untimely death--and especially six untimely deaths, inclulding two "suicides."

Dave Lindorff
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net

Stormer's proposed questions are certainly important ones, but the neglects the basic and most important question: "Who made the initial order for those nuclear weapons to be moved?" It is hard to imagine that such a decision could be made at any level outside the White House.