GOP Rivals Embrace Unproven Iraq-9/11 Tie
WASHINGTON - In defending the Iraq war, leading Republican presidential contenders are increasingly echoing words and phrases used by President Bush in the run-up to the war that reinforce the misleading impression that Iraq was responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
In the May 15 Republican debate in South Carolina, Senator John McCain of Arizona suggested that Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden would “follow us home” from Iraq — a comment some viewers may have taken to mean that bin Laden was in Iraq, which he is not. 
Former New York mayor Rudolph Guiliani asserted, in response to a question about Iraq, that “these people want to follow us here and they have followed us here. Fort Dix happened a week ago. ”
However, none of the six people arrested for allegedly plotting to attack soldiers at Fort Dix in New Jersey were from Iraq.
Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney identified numerous groups that he said have “come together” to try to bring down the United States, though specialists say few of the groups Romney cited have worked together and only some have threatened the United States.
“They want to bring down the West, particularly us,” Romney declared. “And they’ve come together as Shia and Sunni and Hezbollah and Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda, with that intent.”
Assertions of connections between bin Laden and terrorists in Iraq have heated up over the last month, as Congress has debated the war funding resolution. Romney, McCain, and Giuliani have endorsed — and expanded on — Bush’s much-debated contention that Al Qaeda is the main cause of instability in Iraq.
Spokespeople for McCain and Romney say the candidates were expressing their deep-seated convictions that terrorists would benefit if the United States were to withdraw from Iraq. The spokesmen say that even if Iraq had no connection to the Sept. 11 attacks, Al Qaeda-inspired terrorists have infiltrated Iraq as security has deteriorated since the invasion, and now pose a direct threat to the United States.
But critics, including some former CIA officials, said those statements could mislead voters into believing that the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks are now fighting the United States in Iraq .
Michael Scheuer , the CIA’s former chief of operations against bin Laden in the late 1990s, said the comments of some GOP candidates seem to suggest that bin Laden is controlling the insurgency in Iraq, which he is not.
“There are at least 41 groups [worldwide] that have announced their allegiance to Osama bin Laden — and I will bet that none of them are directed by Osama bin Laden,” Scheuer said, pointing out that Al Qaeda in Iraq is not overseen by bin Laden.
Nonetheless, many GOP candidates have recently echoed Bush’s longstanding assertion that Iraq is the “central battlefront” in the worldwide war against Al Qaeda and have declared that Al Qaeda would make Iraq its base of operations if the United States withdraws — notions that Scheuer said do not withstand scrutiny.
“The idea that Al Qaeda will move its headquarters of operation from South Asia to Iraq is nonsense,” said Scheuer.
The belief that there is a clear connection between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks has been a key determinant of support for the war. A Harris poll taken two weeks before the 2004 presidential election found that a majority of Bush’s supporters believed that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks — a claim that Bush has never made. Eighty-four percent believed that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had “strong links” with Al Qaeda, a claim that intelligence officials have long disputed.
But critics have maintained that Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney encouraged these ideas by using misleading terms to describe the threat posed by Iraq before the war.
Bush, for instance, repeatedly spoke of Hussein’s support for terrorism — which many Americans apparently took to mean that Hussein supported Al Qaeda in its jihad against the United States. The administration, however, sourced that claim to Hussein’s backing of Palestinian terrorist groups targeting Israel.
Now, some GOP presidential candidates refer to “the terrorists” as one group, blurring distinctions between Al Qaeda, which has attacked the United States repeatedly, and groups that former intelligence officials say have not targeted the United States.
Romney said Friday: “You see, the terrorists are fighting a war on us. We’ve got to make sure that we’re fighting a war on them.”
Romney’s comment in the earlier debate that “they’ve come together as Shia and Sunni and Hezbollah and Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda” struck some former intelligence officials as particularly misleading. Shia and Sunni, they said, are branches of Islam and not terrorist groups. There are an estimated 300 million Sunni Muslims in the Middle East, many of them fighting Al Qaeda.
“Are Shia and Sunni together? Is the Muslim Brotherhood cooperating with all these other groups? No,” said Judith Yaphe, a former CIA Iraq analyst.
“There’s a tendency to exaggerate in a debate,” she added. “You push the envelope as far as you can.”
No point has been emphasized more strongly at GOP debates than the link between the Iraq war and Al Qaeda. During the debates about war funding, GOP leaders have downplayed the role of sectarian violence in Iraq and emphasized the role of Al Qaeda.
On Friday, McCain called any attempt to cut Iraq war funding, “the equivalent of waving a white flag to Al Qaeda.”
But specialists say that the enemy the military calls “Al Qaeda Iraq” is a combination of Iraqi jihadists and an unknown number of fighters from countries throughout the Middle East. “AQI” came together after the US invasion. And while there is evidence that AQI members coordinate attacks among themselves, there is little evidence that they coordinate closely with bin Laden.
In pressing his case for continued war funding, Bush last week said a previously classified intelligence report indicated that bin Laden had sent a messenger in early 2005 to urge the late Iraqi terrorist chief Abu Musab al-Zarqawi to aim more attacks at the United States.
But there is no further evidence that bin Laden, who is believed to be hiding along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, exerts control over Al Qaeda Iraq, according to a senior military official in Baghdad in an interview last week.
“We don’t have any direct information that would link Al Qaeda Iraq to getting e-mails, memos, whatever, from bin Laden,” the military official said, speaking under condition of anonymity.
A McCain spokesman said the senator did not mean to suggest in his debate comments that bin Laden was in Iraq. But aides to Romney and McCain, in interviews, insisted that the candidates are not exaggerating when they speak of bin Laden and the link between Al Qaeda and Iraq.
“The larger point shouldn’t be in dispute,” said Randy Scheunemann , McCain’s foreign policy adviser. “If there’s a territory where Al Qaeda is left unmolested, free to plan, conduct, and train for operations, they will do so.”
Romney’s national press secretary, Kevin Madden, said the former governor’s linking of Shia, Sunni, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Muslim Brotherhood was based on their common hostility to the West. “I think [Romney’s statement] was much more directed at intent — they all share a common ideology or intent to bring down Western governments,” Madden said. “There’s a shared attempt to fight any beachhead of democracy in that region.”
Analysts say that Hamas and Hezbollah are participating in democratic governments and that the leaders of Shi’ite militias are part of the Iraqi government.
“All of the bad actors in the Middle East get mixed up in people’s minds,” said Andrew Kohut , director of the nonpartisan Pew Research Center, which has polled extensively on views on Iraq. “That’s why it was easy to play on the perception that Saddam Hussein got together with Osama bin Laden and said ‘Let’s fly some planes into buildings.’ Saddam Hussein was seen as a bad guy in the Middle East, and so it all gets jumbled up in people’s thinking.”
© Copyright 2007 The Boston Globe
The politics of fear — it’s all they’ve got but it is a powerful tactic. What needs to be addressed is what we mean by “security” on the home front in a way that addresses the fears people have. Not only do most Amricans fear terrorism, they/we fear economic insecurity and illness without coverage among other things. Dems and others need to focus on truth, accountability and real the security issues most of us face.
No WMD’s
No ties to Al-Qeada
BTW OBL is still on the loose or dead and never claimed responsibility for 9/11
LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES…………
Shame on these bastards with their unrelenting drum beat of war and fear- 655,000 to as much as 1,000,000 totaly innocent Iraqi souls lost and almost 4,000 American lives that we know of. I supose the Iranians also were behind 9/11 and we’ll have to bring them democracy- perhaps liberate their oil fields too. Shame on us if we don’t bring these wackos to justice.
The Republican is as close to an Americanized Goebels lie factory as you can get. They couldn’t win with the truth. They embrace torture, lies, curbing civil liberties. Even the President said that curbing price gouging at the gas pump was “regulation.” Another four years of Republican reactionary rule will see this country descend into class polarization not unlike that described by Jack London in his futuristic novel, “The Iron Heel.”
The Republican Party is an Americanized Goebels lie factory. Truth to them is anathema. Curbing price gouging at the gas pump is “regulation.” Four more years and we will descend into class polarization not unlike that described by Jack London in his futuristic novel, “The Iron Heel.” We’re dealing with closet fascists who embrace torture, war, lies and restricting civil liberties.
Another Republican administration will lead to a second Civil War. Ordinary Americans are sick of being led by right-wing idealogues and their band of brain-dead zombies.
I saw this on another site and it’s spot on:
LIBERAL: George Bush has destroyed everything that makes our country great and led us into a mess we may never get out of.
CONSERVATIVE: Why do you hate America?
LIBERAL: I love America, which is why I’m so distressed at what’s happened to it.
CONSERVATIVE: It’s because of people like you that we’re in the state we’re in. You would be happy if we were all speaking Arabic.
LIBERAL: You’re delusional.
CONSERVATIVE: You’re a traitor.
Their is no political debate in America. It’s like a modern human trying to reason with Cro-Magnon man.
What else would one expect? This whole country is a lie build upon a lie now.
Anyone with half a brain cell knows that 9/11 has never really been explained. In order to keep this war-mongering nation in a perpetual state of war enemies must be created, real or imagined. We’re not the “home of the free and brave”, we’re a warrior nation that has created monsters that must be feed to sustain itself even if it means we wind-up eating our own.
This nation disgusts me. We’ve become what we were suppose to be against. A nation of greedy, ignorant fools lead by amoral megalomaniacs bent on spreading their deceased vision on anyone that would stand in the way of our unsaciable need to covet everything we deem necessary to maintain a lifestyle beyond reason.
Get ready Blue-eyed Boys - A Hard Rain Is Going to Fall
What amazes me is how it is considered patriotic to believe the Republican liars and un-American to question them. These lies should be exposed in the debates by the moderators of the debates but they won’t be because the media is afraid of seeming to be hostile to these Republican liars. Maybe Ralph Nader should be selected as moderator of the Republican debates.
[[Romney said Friday: “You see, the terrorists are fighting a war on us. We’ve got to make sure that we’re fighting a war on them.”]]
The terrorist groups said Saturday: “You see, the terrorists are fighting a war on us. We’ve got to make sure that we’re fighting a war on them.”
And so it goes!
[[said Judith Yaphe, a former CIA Iraq analyst.–“There’s a tendency to exaggerate in a debate,”… “You push the envelope as far as you can.”]]
Because people are naturally peaceful; a militant leader has to rally people to action by using fear. This is true for Osama and Bush!
The major problem is that we live in an era of moral relativism. There is no longer any common sense of “truth.”
Everyone has their own “truths.”
Ahh there is a common sense of truth if everybody whould only accept what little truth we are able to uncover.
When it comes down to it you can only trust your own judgment, you have to play detective.
And the lies go on . . . and on . . . and on . . . . And nobody cares anymore.
Show of hands, please: Who here believes that the republican party is something other than a desperate, greedy, lying party of psychopaths who think that their own winning is better than actually running the country properly?
The whole party is based on lying to you. It hasn’t told the truth about anything for decades. In fact, I think the last republican that told the truth about ANYTHING was Eisenhower, and he was a liberal if he was anything.
EVERYTHING the republican party does is based on lying. These guys can’t really be blamed for just following along the party line. They have been lying so long, they believe it themselves. Delusion is a very dangerous thing.
But this is clearly desparation on their part, thank God. They KNOW that if they tell the truth about ANYTHING, they will lose.
They can’t tell the truth about their economic policies, because those have been shown to have disastrous consequences for the population as a whole. They can’t tell the truth about their social policies, because their real policy is divide and conquer, and their goal is clearly indentured servitude for the citizenry. They can’t tell the truth about their international policies, because those involve the destruction of the world as we know it, and turning the whole thing into a dictatorship with a republican ruler at all times. They can’t even tell the truth about history, because not only do they not understand it, but they don’t look good in the light of it. They HAVE to lie, otherwise they KNOW they will lose every election known to the country. Who the hell would vote for what they REALLY stand for?
This is just proof of where the party really is. Wallowing in it’s own lies to the few who still buy that crap.
More lies from these scum. How can anyone with any shred of decency propagate this nonsense?
It would be nice if the the FBI or the CIA would report to US citizens and not the US government, maybe things would be different. LOL…. Unfortunately SangZe is right! Keep educating people, it will sink in. Also Kucinich will not be nominated for the democrats, but write his name in anyway!
Are they out of their minds? A senior Bush official said “We create reality and you react to it. And then we recreate reality and you react to that”. The Dems better tear into this creation of reality. And fast!
The only accurate comment was the part about Americans jumbled thinking. And we can thank the MSM for helping Americans to be confused, uninformed and misinformed. Pretty impressive to do all three at once.
This isn’t about decency. It’s about people feeling secure.
Our planet is dying and there is really little we can do about it at this point other than drastically reducing the planet’s human population. That would be considered genocide.
Ordinary people don’t want to hear this. They would rather have someone re-assure them with a lie and tell them global warming does not exist.
That’s why 95 percent of the population believes in God–even though there is NO proof of his existance. It’s more comforting to believe in lies than scary truths.
John Edwards just said that their is no “war on terror; its a slogan.” That clearly truth. That was the end of his candidacy in any realistic sense.
I care. I also care that because the bill to continue funding the war in Iraq has now been signed into law by King George, that many wil blame the democrats for that. The option for the democrats were to stand firm and eventually be blamed for whatever transpired. Then the next election could very likely be one of the men elected who are repeating the Bush/Chaney doctrine of deciet and lies.
You know, what I find to be ironic is, Bush starts this unjust war in Iraq, literally tears the country apart and is now blaming the Iraq government for the insurgency and civil war. (People he put into power.) The entire deal is almost so unbelieveable, that if it were a fictional novel it wouldn’t sell.
For certain we have rid the world of a cruel and unstble leader; now what do we call the people who did it? It’s sort of like the last chapter of Animal Farm. Funy but not Ha Ha funny.
As faulty as the democratic party often is, we have to support them next time, it absolutely could not be worse. Perhaps over time, a third party will arise and put a stop to most of the stupidity. We’ll see.
I’m sorry to say but the people not getting it are the ones that respond only to “echo chamber message” technique.
They keep repeating lies we keep repeating what we know to be true.
Lies have to be carefully packaged, the truth can be told as many ways as there are people to tell it.
By the way; I don’t expect the police state to turn against the people if they know where we are comming from. Thats another reason why West Point grads are kept from hearing anti-war protests.
The TRUTH will set them free, if only you can (Orwell, so right) come by it, en masse (media) that is. FleetoCanada, so right about the discourse. I can’t TALK to my neighbors because they are completely indoctrinated to Fox “news,” and or “Rush,” and/or a Baptist church. Comnsense, it IS a warrior nation, and I have made many comments in that regard on this site. WJM so true about all the lies. And remember, too, “guilt by association,” and consider some of THEIR team members–Lay, Delay, Ney, Cunningham, Abramoff, the planted journalist, the recent exposure of the kiddy porn Repub, another with his homosexual boyfriend. I like gay people, but I am pointing out another important lie–the way the Repugs demonize gays, when so many of them ARE closet cases! They can’t accept themselves or their own sexuality. What a group. Perhaps they are self deceived. Shakespeare said, “And to thine own self be true and as it must follow day for night, thou cannot be false to any other man.” (Or woman) Truth starts in the heart, these people are subhuman! The fate they cast on others that they think are answerable to a lesser god. There is a judgment day, a time of karmic reckoning. Injustice done to others I feel, and that is why (it’s not vengeance, it’s justice!) I like believing that their turn will come to answer for the suffering they so blithely consigned to others after sipping their martinis and driving in their chauffered cars.
PS such a shame, Guiliani was so damned entertaining on Saturday Night Live both as the NY cabby as well as in the part of the old woman!
Just keep repeating the lie, over, and over, and over, and over again. Am I being redundant? No matter. We are a dull lot, so again, repeat it over, and over, and over, etc, ad infinitum.
Where did Ghouliani come from?
How did he become a power broker? The answer lies in a little-known pedophilia scandal at West Point. Quite simply, the ghoul became a contender by covering up for child abusers.
From Dave McGowan’s “Programmed to Kill” (disturbing content):
“The case first broke in July of 1984, when a three-year-old girl found herself in the emergency room of the West Point Hospital with a lacerated vagina. She told the examining physician that a teacher at the day care center had hurt her. The next month, the parents of another child leveled accusations of abuse at the center.
As the Mercury News reported: “By the end of the year, 50 children had been interviewed by investigators….They said they were taken away from the day care center and photographed.”
Despite abundant medical and psychological evidence, and literally dozens of child witnesses, and despite “950 interviews by 60 FBI agents assigned to the investigation, an investigation led by former U.S. Attorney Rudolph Giuliani produced no federal grand jury indictments,” according to the Herald Record.
The Herald also noted that: “In 1987, Giuliani said his detailed investigation showed only one or two children were abused.” This was, it should be noted, a bare-faced lie from the fascistic future-mayor and would-be Senator, as the Herald report divulged: “a still-secret, independent report - produced by one of the nation’s top experts on child sexual abuse - confirms the children’s accusations of abuse.”
This was not the first time that the prestigious academy had shown an appalling willingness to overlook extreme levels of abuse directed at children by army personnel. A year before the abuse case broke, a 22-month-old child was murdered by an Army staff sergeant. The Mercury News reported that: “After a court martial hearing, the sergeant was given an 18 month suspended sentence and dishonorable discharge.”
In other words, he served no time and was essentially given a free ride for murdering a child. With help from Giuliani, the FBI, the U.S. Army, and the grand jury, the abusers of countless children at the day care center (which was, appropriately enough, building number 666 on the academy grounds) were likewise given a free ride.
As with the Franklin case, the children and their parents were to find justice only through the civil courts. The Herald Record reported that: “lawyers for both the government and the 11 child plaintiffs agreed that some children were sexually abused at the center two years ago” (again contradicting Giuliani’s bogus conclusions). The government, however, claimed that it could not be held responsible, due to the “assault exemption in the Federal Tort Claim Act.”
Until Ron Paul, I thought that there were no more honest conservatives. I got to hand it to Ron, he is telling like it is to a party that tells like it isn’t. To get Ron’s educating Rudy sspeech, click http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=RonPaul2008dotcom
Scheuer backs up what Ron says.
Terrorism is BS.
The odds of dieing in a terrorist incident are very low.
Each coal fired power plant will certainly kill people. The government computes the asthma deaths that will result in the area of the smoke plume. Mercury deaths are directly tied to coal use as well.
These and many other certain sources of death could have been reduced for much less cost than the Iraq war.
Of course the fact that the Iraq war increases terrorism not reduces it could be relevant.
Never forget that those who own Mainstream Media (About 92% of all tv, cable, newspapers, magazines and radio) bought into it from corporate wealth. Their vested interests are in war profits and energy profits. The crossovers of seats on assorted corporate boards would curl your hair. In general, the truth is not in them. The law that allowed this to happen was changed by a Republican Congress in 1996. It was supported by Bill Clinton. So don’t count on MSM to correct false realities. These people are in the business of sowing confusion.
Despite the pervasive reach of media in the US we are much like the Middle Ages in one major way. It is the tummelers who are the main instigators of political action.Bless them-we have Jon Stewart-Keith Olberman-Bill Maher etc.If MSM had even a scintilla of backbone we wouldn’t have had to endure these years with shrub.Whether this society can survive the aftereffects is still undecided. Republicans of old at least stood for fiscal responsibility.But if these maniacs actually believe in the Rapture then why worry about crushing debt.
This illogical myth that Al Qaeda (or terrorists generally) comprise some ominous, highly organized threat to America is a classic example of the Nazi “big lie” maxim: keep repeating it and the people will believe it. Bush and Cheney have been its chief spokesmen, but now other would-be chiefs are parroting it. It isn’t true, it flies against all known facts and realities, and it is dangerous because it keeps the deluded American voter afraid he/she is next to be suicide bombed unless we wage the holy war “over there”. Sure, there are going to continue to be terrorists operating throughout the Middle East and in other parts of the world, and the Arab world will continue unstable. How do we cope? Force Israel to come to peace with the Palestinians and its neighbors, pressure the oil-rich rulers of producing countries to democratize and develop, abide by the rule of law so that we can work with our natural allies in Europe, and begin caring for poverty and misery here at home and elsehwhere. In other words, be good world citizens instead of petty tyrants using force of arms to maintain the “new American empire!”
It’s not the media. The media is only the reflection of society. The problem is ignorance.
Only 12% of Americans have a Bachelor’s degree, 4% a Master’s and less than 1% a Ph.D.
That’s 17% of the American society with a post-secondary education. The rest (83%) of the nation is a gang of sheep-like ignoramuses. The average education level for the rest of America is about a 5th grade level. (That’s the reading and comprehension level that national museums use in writing their captions!) And, that’s about the intellectual level of the national news media.
This is what many of the founding fathers warned against–the tyranny of the masses. We don’t let fifth graders vote. And, we shouldn’t let ignorant people vote either. We should have voting rights tied to a simple exam on the basics of our Constitution.
This ignorance is why we continually get administrations running this country that represent the lowest common denominator.
Enough is enough! Why should well-educated people capable reason and critical thinking be ruled by utter morons. It’s evident to anyone with an education that Bush is an utter dunce and after 6 years in office he’s nearly wrecked our nation.
Flee- No matter the education, the drumbeat of MSM affects a PhD. more than a street-smart kid who probably doesn’t watch TV.
I can only hope that educated folks figure out that the federal government is broke financially and the trade deficit is astronomically in favor of China. As we keep printing money it’s value goes down speculatively.
We are being told, “We gotta win in Iraq”– because “cheap labor neo-cons” want to profit from the adventure that was supposed to trickle down to us. (Cheap Labor)
What is true is we (the people) already lost big time.
THE TRUTH is a Republican’s worst enemy.
“Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney identified numerous groups that he said have “come together” to try to bring down the United States,”
That anyone could continue to take ANY of these “men” for their word is beyond belief. I never cease to be amazed at the gullibility and utter stupidity of the sheeple of this country. These guys are chronic liers. They are devoid of truth, they are devoid of morals, and they are wholly unbelieveable. The candidates for the democratic nomination aren’t much better. I fear for the future of our couuntry. There are only two candidates, Ron Paul on the republican side and Dennis Kucinich on the democratic side that merit anything more than contempt, and, unfortunately, they have a very small chance of ever being nominated as a presidential candidate.
“Romney said Friday: “You see, the terrorists are fighting a war on us. We’ve got to make sure that we’re fighting a war on them.”
To begin with, terrorism is a tactic, not an enemy in uniform. It should be deat with using intelligence and law enforcement, the military is useless against a tactic. All that this statement asserts is the desire of these fascists for endless war.
“Senator John McCain of Arizona suggested that Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden would “follow us home” from Iraq —…”
They have no idea where Bin Laden, a former CIA member, is. My guess would be Pakistan, but they have no idea. They couldn’t find their butt with a bass fiddle. Further, if they do “follow us home”, they will certainly have no trouble getting into the U.S. due to the fact that our borders are wide open.
“they all share a common ideology or intent to bring down Western governments,” Madden said. “There’s a shared attempt to fight any beachhead of democracy in that region.”
More lies. These different groups hate each other more than they hate us. The assertion that they want to destroy America and they hate us because of our freedom is ridicuous. Ron Paul was right. They hate us because we continue to occupy their countries and shove our personal will down their throats. If anybody is fighting democracy it is Bu$h.
If you listen to each of these guys, they are the same ‘ol crap cut by the same ‘ol cookie cutter. It makes me shudder to think that there are still so many sheeple who believe the complete crap these guys spew and that one of these frauds may likely be our next president. I guess I had better stop at this point…I’m starting to get angry.
The future indeed looks bleak.
fleetocanada
Your ignorance conclusion is arse-backards. All these so called leaders have high degrees, even if they didnt earn them.We need good common people leading us that only have 12 grade educations. they would be honest, and by the way, DON’T FLEE TO CANADA, WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS ALREADY.
Well, someone said, “Stupid is as stupid does….”
“You see, the terrorists are fighting a war on us. We’ve got to make sure that we’re fighting a war on them.”
Well, Mr. Romney, answer this: Why don’t the so-called Iraqi “terrorists” strike at soft targets here in the states now? Wouldn’t hitting soft targets here in America be much easier than going up against hard targets in Iraq, like Apache helicopter gunships and M-1 Abrams Tanks?
If you answer is that they can’t make it to America now, then how will they make it to our country later?
Opening up a second front is one of warfare’s time tested tactics, so why aren’t they hitting soft targets here in the USA?
You’re allowed one spin from the “Doctor of Lies”, Karl River.
Still waiting for an answer.
Replace “terrorists” with “Communists” and “Iraq” with “Vietnam” and you have the same tired rhetoric that didn’t hold water 35 years ago.
And is it just me or does that photo of Rudy look like a creepy undertaker just waiting for more bodies?
What is it with these politicians who just blather on and on about topics without any PROOF to back it up? What do they take us for? Imbeciles? They say anything and do anything. Talk about abuse of power — that’s all we’ve gotten since Bush’s coup d’état in 2000. The complicit Democrats never call them on any of their lies. How disgusting.
Dave, LOL, I thought the same thing. Rudy Guiliani DOES look creepy. It’s bad enough having to look at George Bush; hopefully we won’t have to suffer some more with Rudy. I guess if he were honest and honorable I could overlook it, but he’s not.
The Republicans have a different approach for each of the three types of voters and contributors they seek to appeal to:
(1) low-brow poorly educated voters, usually poor or lower-middle class, that they mostly appeal to with religious/social issues and with red meat jingoistic military/foreign policy issues;
(2) middle-brow moderately educated voters, usually middle middle to upper middle class, that they mostly appeal to with misleading economic arguments, generally with sophistry about an illusory “free market” and other complicated and deceptive arguments regarding economic freedom; and
(3) high-brow well-educated voters, usually upper middle to upper class, that they appeal to not with rhetoric as much as with actual policies that benefit these voters, hoping more for contributions than for votes (they need contributions from these voters to have the funds necessary to hoodwink the gullible voters in (1) and (2)).
FOX News focuses on group (1) (as opposed to the Wall Street Journal which focuses on group (3) while most of corporate media focuses on group (2)). Also, most of the Republican campaign commercials and campaign materials focus on group (1). In the debate the other night, all the candidates, except Ron Paul, were trying to appeal to voters in (1), while Ron Paul was trying to appeal to voters mainly in group (2). The FOX propagandists and most of the other rightwing propagandists felt that was dangerous as it would just confuse the voters in group (1), who constitute by far their largest voting block.
Reps, Dems, what’s the diff? It really is Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. POWER TO THE PEOPLE! Switch2Green.
ezeflyer,
The Democrats are rotten, lying crooks. The Republicans are fascist monsters. There are an infinite number of degrees of evil.
Maybe it’s just me, but this Rudy guy sure has a striking resemblance to COLONEL KLINK,of the Hogan’s Heroes TV comedy,minus the monacle (no offense to the fine actor and musician, Werner Klemperer). Mockery and ridicule can be an effective way of “laughing these charlatans out of town”.ZIEL HEIT KLINK!
The gop right wing trash (including/especaily scumbag right wing libertarians like ron paul) will lose the election; forget their ugly old faces.
The neocons began thir successful attack on school boards about 30 years ago. The textbooks were already terribly biased towards US actions and they only got worse. I also think that many supporters of shrub and his ilk are caught in the vise of a self protective mechanism of sorts-they just can’t believe that a president can be this culpable.
In recent weeks on this site several have strongly recommended trying to “convert” as many friends as possible. Might take a long time-but in the interim-is probably the best that most of us can do.
It’s often mentioned here that there is no difference between Dems and Repugs. That philosophy does all the Repugs work for them. I’ll vote pragmatically for the party offering even a small difference versus conceeding decades of control to these neo-Fascists.
Regarding Rudy-how many remember his appearances on Letterman years ago with his son[son was about 13 then]? The son was an absolute brat.Remember thinking that Rudy’s judgement was so lacking as a parent but more so as a politician.
Lastly-as a 50 percent Italian person-I’m further embarrassed by Rudy’s ascent following Alito and Scalia.Had always thought that my Mother’s “tribe” were cordial warm people.Oops there’s that little Benito thing.The Roman Empire lives on-though in decentralized ways.
abelito,
The other day on some popular website (I can’t remember which one right now) there was an image of an actor in an old Dracula movie who looked like he could have been Giuliani’s twin. I think Mr. Giuliani is as close to the mythic creature known as a vampire as we will ever see. This guy is a bloodthirsty fascist from way back who, if he ever becomes President, will make everyone long for the peaceful and prosperous days of Darth Cheney and his monkey.
The “central battlefront on the wordwide war” on terror is clearly headquartered in what today passes for the “Republican Party”. From day one of the propogandistic political tool known as the WOT - be that date 9/11 or any other - terrorism should have been a law enforcement issue. The US should have joined with the many other nations and law enforcement agencies, who in solidarity and compassion, stood by us. Bush spat in the world’s face with his predetermined war, his “coalition of the willing”, his assinine macho strut, and his “Mission” which he miserably continues to fail to accomplish. Giuliani, McCain, etc, continue to expectorate the lies; no vision, no plan, just fear and lies, and more death.
Terrorism cannot be defeated by military might because, as the CIA knows, economic and military oppression is what causes terrorism, giving birth to the various, disparate groups and their various forms of blowback. Of course, if you’re a “Republican” running for office, or a war-profiteer gleefully making a killing, you’ve learned that your most reliable supporter is the bogeyman, and you’ll play Cheney’s fear card to the death.
Isn’t it strange that in our media ridicule is more effective than reason, lies are more effective than truth, and fear gets more attention than inspiration and ideas. If it weren’t that way, the leading candidates would be Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich.
Greg Bacon: Superb logic. PLEASE KEEP ON REPEATING IT, MAN.
Kivals: On the three categories of voter the Rep- Goebbels machine deludes - - graet inight. please keep on repeating.
All the good folk here. Lets dig deep like these two and then somebody collect the best cooments on Common Dreams for about a month, put some animation and / or picturs/ make a video and put it out in the millions.
THEN SEE THE FIREWORKS ON THE REPTHUGS.
Sorry about the typos above. How does one get to edit the stuff. It says “Editing” but I can’t access it. Can anyone help?
aymon;don’t worry about the typos-think we all get used to them.
About your idea-I’ve never organized a project like that-but bet that some on this site have.Would such experienced people respond as an estimated cost for such an effort? I’m a poor man but would happily kick in $25 or a bit more for such a cause. My WAG [wild assed guess] is 25 or 30 grand might do it if you get sympathetic vendors to cooperate. For me-even if such a project didn’t achieve all its goals-I could show my 9 year grandson that I was a part of a noble effort.Don’t know how many log on here-but certainly it’s several thousand.
I’ll be reading all the posts for at least a few days-hope your idea gains some momentum.If some sprouting occurs-maybe my town can help. Madison-Wis.-ridiculed by the Right as XXX square miles surrounded by reality-has lots of radical intellectual firepower left. John Nichols-Matt Rothschild and others contribute to this site.We even have Intellectual bookstore owners [Mr.Allen Ruff]driving cab.
Kivals:
If Commom Dreams or some of the blog site owners here can provide the collection fund organization, it can be done. I suggested thsi to Cindy Sheean’s group but dodn’t hear from back them. I written to other writers here and at Counter punch, and they have responded to other views and ideas I have suggested. I am sure ifsomeone can puttogether the collection organization, the talent would be supplied by some of the “mad -as hell” graphcs people. I am on mmedical leave, otherwise I would have done it. But i can contribute $100 and if another 500 readers can contribute any thing from $10 up wards, the project cab take off. since we do not havr the MSM with the progressivesthis the way to provide our increasing constituency the true infos. If you recall, historically, the progressives have always had to rely on pamphlets since the MSM in their time too was ‘occupied” by regressives.
Don’t worry the amounts. I don’t want to sound like new age drugger, but as Paulo Coelho ( you should read his books- they are internatuional best sellers in scores of languages) says:
THE UNIVERSE HELPS THOSE WHO DO THE RIGHT THING.
all you folks who are reading this, what do you feelabout Kivals and my ideas?
Klever:
My apologies. I was too much in a rush to post an answer so that with your name starting with K, I presumed it was Kivals.
This is getting late for me but I gotta do the right thing. First your idea of looking around Madison is great. That’s a real progressive centre. I am in Canada now. But I used to teach at University in Minneapolis for many years and so I know that many folks over there would be interested. I was John Marty’s advisor when he stood up for Dem governor of MN, but the party handlers ruined the strategy I had planned out. Then they came back at the end to ask for help, but I said it was too late to help. John Marty is one great guy. Decent, squeaky clean, progressive. The Party establishment didn’t like his honesty.
I also have small network of like-minded people up here in Canada, in Minnesota and elsewhere- small business people,artisans, teahers, academics and profesionals - who most likely will make my $100 into $One Grand or $2K.
Your grandson will be proud of you. He is lucky to have you as grandfather. He will grow up to be righteous. I am still waiting for mine.
I also know some computer folks and animation people. Also there are some rich people who are also progressive, but like all rich people, they need some convincing before they part with their green.
What I was thinking of could be done on Power Point at least. But for a powerful impact statement, animation, pictures and graphics are necessary. the American public, especially the younger generation is visual. they don’t like talking heads much and that is the biggest problem with liberals - they love to gab.
We shall need a Flash programmer I think. There could be several at the University of Wisconsin at Madison who would be willing to lend talent instead of cash. Students and faculty over at the University of Wisconsin, Madison have a large number of progressives as you know.
The DVD disk could be titled “TEN TRUTHS YOU SHOULD KNOW” or sometning like that. It should deal with the main issues starting with the Iraq War as ISSUE 1. Keep it simple in verbiage but provide animation, graphics and heart rending pictures of the innocents of the carnage. That could run for 10-15 minutes. The next ISSUE -segment 2 could be on a possible IRAN WAR and the catastrophic consequences to the world. One animation could depict the Irannian oil fields on fire after a nuclear strike or a scorched earth response by the Iranians, spewing out massive clouds of carbon dioxide and other toxic gases and hastening the climate change disaster for the world. Another part could show, using Helen Caldicott’s organization’s estimate that a world- wide nuclear winter would come about with only 100 medium sized nuclear bombs being detonated. Thus nobody would survive, including everybody in America and Europe.
And so on down the line on each of the ten main subjects.
When such a video gets wide distribution (by the way it costs only 5-10 cents to make copies from a master disk) and if at least 100K- 500K people become fully informed, they can form the nucleus of a peoples’ movement toward sanity and peace.
That’s the idea. It is simple and straight forward. Your guess of about $30 Grand is about right. Then further videos can be made from donations from the nucleus group. Perhaps Michael Moore can pitch in with a 100K donation and /or talent.
Let’s get the horse before the cart again:
There was, relatively, very little terrorist activity before “somebody” began to covet Iraqi oil and began bombing the stuffing out of the population there.
The worst terrorists we can find are American born and pledge their allegiance only to giant corporations.
Having a psychotic monkey and an ugly fat man call the shots is beneath us and we need to change that soonest.
Call or write your Congress persons and insist on a thorough housecleaning in Washington. Do it today!
Kindly pay attention to Ron Paul
“WASHINGTON - In defending the Iraq war, leading Republican presidential contenders are increasingly echoing words and phrases used by President Bush in the run-up to the war that reinforce the misleading impression that Iraq was responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.”
It seems to me that there is a paucity of what Republicans are able to offer if elected to the Presidency of the US, thus the continuing skewering of the truth.
The fear issue is hopefully dead in this Nation.
The truth has been shredded once too often.
Seems like a number of “empty suits”.
aymon May 28th, 2007 4:54 am
Sounds like a good useful plan. As another inclusion graphics about the effects of DU (depleted uranium) would be totally appropriate since the long term effects of this nuclear proliferation will be experienced in the whole middle-east (and Europe, and the US) long after Americans leave Iraq.
Also, a comparison between the war crimes of the Nazis & the Bush administration should be included so people would realize no matter how powerful a group of people might seem to appear eventually there will be accountability & liability. This is important because it seems, from reading various blog sites, there are a number of people who just throw their hands in the air claiming, “I’m just one small powerless person; what can I do?”
I would also recommend an effort to put a link to the video on every Republican/rightwing/Neo-con blogsite. A third of the country now believes 911 a product of this administration, (either by intent or intentional failure to act), and I attribute much of this shift in public opinion to people seeing, “Loose Change:2nd Edition”. About 15 million people have now seen it, and it only cost about $6,000 to make, a huge social ROI (return on investment).
Keep the brainstorming going on this idea. If this project gets going good enough perhaps CommonDreams would even provide a poll, so bloggers could choose the top ten subjects in a Democratic way. Isn’t snatching power from fascists and restoring our democracy the goal anyway?
EDITING YOUR SUBMISSIONS
Type your response in your word processing program; then copy and paste the text into the “join the discussion” box. (Rt. click in selected text for options-PC)(Hold down for MAC)
If you edit more than once you need to start from the home page again to avoid the SQL Error.
kivals May 28th, 2007 12:23 am
Speaking of Dracula, did you ever see the article claiming Bush & Kerry are descendents of Vlad the Impaler? (Count Dracula who murdered & tortured 30,000 of his own people and neighbors) I guess it is no great wonder they both are members of the Skull & Bones Society too, is it?
PaulMagillSmith;
Those are great suggestions. The $6000 project on 911 seems to indicate that the cost of our video may even be not more than $15,000.
I agree with you - - lots of progressive bloggers are throwing up their arms prematurely and unknowingly making people feel powerless.
As I mentioned in another post elsewhere, why should progressives feel helpless. True, the normal power channels (AKA the Dem legislators) may be spineless, but the polls suggest that 70% of the American people are at various stages of disgust with this War and any further carnage of innocents for oil. That is more than 200 million people!
Surely there are at least 1 million (that is 0.5 % of the 200 million) who are “mad-as-hell” who would be ready to donate $20 a month up to the election if Kucinich, Gold Star Mothers, Code Pink, and others would form a joint planning committee and issue such a video, somewaht more professionally done by Micahel Moore or other enormous talent at the progressives disposal. That is $20 x 1 million x 12 = 4240 million1!!!.
Lets keep the brain storming going here and continue it every day on Common Dreams as more and more good folk get on in with the people’s wisdom until it becomes a snowball too large to ignore.
All little children are angels, and not a hair of anyone of them anywhere in the world should be harmed for any reason whatsoever. This is the Law of the Universe. Break it at your peril - whether you are an individual or a nation.
Peace. Compassion. Justice. Knowledge for Light.
Are these people imbecils(sp?) Or just that plain manipulative. “Follow us home” Gee. Invade a country that did nothing to you. Will people get angry? “Gee. I do not know why they would.” Gawd. And people also buy the WMD was a “mistake” line. And people still buy the imperialism wasn’t around the day before Bush got inagurated and is solely a thing Republican presidents do or maintain.
We can’t leave until we have assured that peace returns to our dear comrades in Iraq.
To better understand this argument, it helps to keep in mind the following about the daily horror that is life in Iraq:
It did not exist before the US occupation.
The insurgency violence began as, and remains, a reaction to the occupation; like almost all insurgencies in occupied countries — from the American Revolution to the Vietcong — it’s a fight directed toward getting foreign forces to leave.
The next phase was the violence of Iraqis against other Iraqis who worked for or sought employment with anything associated with the occupation regime.
Then came retaliatory attacks for these attacks.
Followed by retaliatory attacks for the retaliatory attacks.
Jihadists from many countries have flocked to Iraq because they see the war against the American Satan occupiers as a holy war.
Before the occupation, many Sunnis and Shiites married each other; since the occupation they have been caught up in a spiral of hating and killing each other.
And for these acts there of course has to be retaliation.
The occupation’s abolishment of most jobs in the military and in Saddam Hussein’s government, and the chaos that is Iraqi society under the occupation, have left many destitute; kidnapings for ransom and other acts of criminal violence have become popular ways to make a living, or at least survive.
US-trained, financed, and armed Iraqi forces have killed large numbers of people designated as “terrorists” by someone official, or perhaps someone unofficial, or by someone unknown, or by chance.
The US military itself has been a main perpetrator of violence, killing individually and en masse, killing any number, any day, for any reason, anyone, any place, often in mindless retaliation against anyone nearby for an insurgent attack.
The US military and its coalition allies have also been the main target of violent attacks. A Department of Defense report of November 2006 stated: “Coalition forces remained the target of the majority of attacks (68%).”
thank you bill blum
Under the United Nations Charter, The Geneva Conventions etc.,the lack of security in an occupied land is a war crime of the occupier and not the occupied.
’nuff said
Why do they have to “follow us home”??? Dont they know the way? Is the USA in a super secret location?
Can’t the Al Qaeda Air Force, or the Bin Laden Navy find the USA on their own? They seemed to find the USA fine with at least 4 aircraft in 2001.
Maybe they are planning on sending hundreds of thousands of suicide bombers over on commercial airline?
“Excuse me, Sir, you can’t bring that RPG as carry on luggage, it wont fit into the overhead compartment, please check it in along with your IED’s and tank…..do you have anything else to declare?… “Yes, Death to America”
WHAT A BUNCH OF MORONS
WJM you are right the Rethugagains are a a bunch of lying sociopaths and so are the Dims. Sell out vote on to keep funding the war ring a bell?
With Rethugs it’s war, war, war so it will be if get Hilary in there, nothing will change. Only continuous protest in the streets has an outside shot of turning this thing around.
Really this is not only more lies from the GOP but also more BS from the mainstream media. Ron Paul is a Republican Congressman from Texas running for President. In the last debate he was lambasted by Guiliani who demanded an apology, for saying that the reason we were attacked on 9-11 was because we are sticking our noses in other peoples busnicess in the Middle East. He also said Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. The reality is that the major media wants to make sure that we believe there are no alternatives in the Republican Party to the same tired old Neocon BS who are running for President. Of course several of the GOP candidates, Guliani primarily, are calling for Ron Paul to be banned from the next GOP debate. So if you think this is the liberal media… wrong. If you think this is about the GOP… wrong again. I f you think for 2 seconds Democrats are different than Republicans just look at how Democrats stood up to Bush last week on Iraq war funding. If you still need more convincing, take a closer look at the sources of campaign funding for Party leaders in both Parties. The reason Pelosi took impeachment “off the table” before she was even elected or sworn in as the new Speaker. We need to forget about Party allegiance and start looking at who speaks with truth and integrity. You won’t find it in the Senate.
A litmus test to get the Oligarchy blessing. It’s like a signal to the powers that be that I’m one to be counted on. Just what we need more facist’s competeing to see who can grovel the most to best please their masters.
I think I just figured out that terrorists are fighting to keep American politics out of their countries.
As implied above, if there were any proof of Iraq being a launchpad for Alqaeda, the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Zoeller machine would have been waving it around years ago, because they spy on everyone and have access to everything the CIA has accumulated from its birth. Obviously this recent concoction is a Lie.
The CIA has been in the hip-pocket of the Republican Party since the day it was founded… don’t expect that to ever change. JFK knew it, and they killed him when he began discussing the idea of shutting the CIA down. In Latin American, for years, the CIA is spelled and pronounced Cia, to emphasize its connections with the Mafia. And that’s no exaggeration.
We will not have democracy until the CIA is shut down and all its records made available to the American public.
The CIA IS the Shadow Government under Republican administrations, and its overlaps with (increasingly international) organized crime are numerous…. read David Scheim: Contract on America.
Half of the FBI has known this for years, but if they say it publicly they will be blacklisted, institutionalized, beaten up, or killed. Everyone else can just be written off as a ‘conspiracy theorist’ or as a ‘leftist extremist’, a term the conservative German government is beginning to wave about lately just as the Nazis did, and as we know many American Republicans do…. yes, the similarities are amazing aren’t they?
Where’s Silvio Berlusconi hiding out right now?
“GOP Rivals Embrace Unproven Iraq-9/11 Tie”
Unproven? It’s an out and out fabrication, a lie ! These deceptive scare tactics are nothing more than a leak in to more fascist polices. I think we are in for big trouble in the USA over the next 5 to 20 years.
Oh please please Mr. Republican, please save us from the scary terrorist, please kill all the scary brown skinned people… over there … Please take my civil liberties, just keep me safe…. over here … The thing that really ticks me off is that there are still plenty of people in this country who actually believe that the reason we have not suffered another 9-11 is because we are fighting them over there.
The idea that “we have to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here” takes on an even more ludicrous dimension when you consider that terrorist attacks are going to be organized and funded using networks and connections scattered throughout Europe and the more western-oriented Middle Eastern countries. The approach taken in these cases draws on the classic spygame “deep cover” techniques used by the CIA, KGB et al. and is very unlikely to involve plucking fighters out of Iraq and shipping them off straightaway to the US for a little mayhem. The involvement of any Al-Qaeda or like-minded network operating within Iraq would be to supply battle-tested fighters to recruit and train others in various foreign locales or to train other individuals who would then be responsible for the recruitment and training. If anything, the hostilities in Iraq and Afghanistan are functioning as a wonderful on-the-job training experience for these types of intermediaries. The US and it’s associates have much more to fear from the fairly well-educated, more cosmopolitan operatives or potential operatives situated in Cairo, Riyadh, London, Hamburg, etc. and from the serpentine networks that, figuratively speaking, load, point and shoot them at their targets.
These people (Republican’s) are going to keep spouting this slop as long as it works politically for them! They will only stop when American’s turn there backs on them and stop listening to the fear and hate mongering. I honestly do not know what it will take to get people woke up to the danger that is right under their nose in the Republican party! I have tried rationalizing with one’s I know before, and I just wind up screaming and pulling out my hair! The idea has been so deeply ingrained in some of them they are beyond hope. All one can do is let them live in there world of lie’s and deceit and the rest of us do what we know is right! And hope one day they will see the danger we are seeing. When I go to the polls (and I make sure I go) I vote a straight Democratic ticket these days! Whether I like who is running or not! Not necessarily because I like them. But, because they are the least of the evils right at this moment! The Republican party is so riddled with fascism and fundamentalism now, I don’t feel safe in voting for even a moderate. I have saw far to many moderate Republican’s embrace Bush’s policy of corruption. At this moment, I think the only hope this country has is with the Democratic party! I know there are going to be a lot who are going to scoff at the idea! But, until the Republican party cleans up their act and their policies a lot I will not vote for any of them!
I want Giuliani to go Washington, because I won’t see his ugly
face in New York.
Wait, wait, don’t yell - I am not serious (about the first part)
Nice picture of Gigli-yawni
Looks like a character from Bram Stoker’s Dracula
My sentiments exactly. I’m glad someone else saw the Nosferatu qualities in Giuliana, aka Ghoul-iani as someone else commented. Maybe I’ll make a T-shirt out of it.
We shall overcome some day
We are not afraid
We are not afraid
We are not afraid today
Oh, deep in my heart I do believe
We shall overcome some day
To all those Repunlican cheaters, liars, misleaders, and politicians who are running for president in 08, I have only 3 words: Go to Hell!
That goes to Democratic presidential hopefools (!) too.
Wise up people; change your party affiliations and vote independent.