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Remote Warfare Radically Changes the Front Lines
In ancient times, warriors could look one another in the eye on the battlefield. War was fought with minimal weaponry, a person-to-person test of bravery and strength. Battlefields were clearly demarcated, extending only as far as an arrow could be shot or a stone could be slung.
But as the centuries advanced, so did the strategies and equipment used in human conflicts. Since then, humans have developed greater firepower, bomber planes, chemical weapons and the A-bomb, each making war at once more destructive and more distant.
Current techniques are taking these developments to the extreme, leaving the work of war to robots that soldiers control from another hemisphere. Often with thousands of miles between them, some will never see their opponents or set foot in enemy territory, much less come into direct physical combat. Like video games played over the Internet between people who know each other only in cyberspace, humans are now killing one another from opposite ends of the planet.
Proponents of remote military technologies say that lives on our side will be saved: soldiers will not have to enter extremely dangerous situations where they risk life and limb. Fewer young men will leave the armed forces with disabilities, scarred faces and battered psyches, they assert.
But critics of hyper-mechanized, remote warfare say that the distance is exactly what could also desensitize us to the harm that we are doing to others and eventually come back to bite us. They worry that remote technology could ultimately prove far more destructive, fueled by the fact that the conflict doesn't feel real at all.
In the Air
The use of Unmannned Aerial Vehicles, or UAVs, by the US is on the rise, with machines reportedly piloted from air force bases in Virginia and Nevada as they go to war in the Middle East. But experts like military adviser David Kilcullen are questioning the strategic value of drones to the countries that deploy them in light of the anger they are causing on the ground. He says that since 2006 US drone attacks have killed 14 senior Al Quaeda operatives and 700 civilians in the same region of Pakistan fuelling extremism. Furthermore, he says Pashtun culture sees honor in person-to-person combat, and "using robots from the air ... looks both cowardly and weak."
But the trend toward remote warfare doesn't show any signs of slowing -- as the military moves in the direction of removing soldiers from combat, both academia and industry are seeking to fill the need for more sophisticated machines.
On the West Coast, engineers and computer scientists are working on a war machine that maneuvers itself. Drones created at the University of California at Berkeley as part of the multi-university Scalable sWarms of Autonomous Robotics and Mobile Sensors (SWARMS) project will be able to move in patterns found in the wild, like schools of fish or packs of wolves, to pursue a common goal.
The Berkeley group puts a lightweight navigation box on small helicopters, intending to monitor the movements of others and perform group behaviors like "swarming." Developers envision deploying these machines as military search drones in urban outdoor and even indoor environments.
In another Bay Area UAV project also using helicopters, then-Stanford doctoral student Pieter Abbeel, who is now at Berkeley, developed a model helicopter that learns by mimicry. His software allows helicopters (or other machines) to observe and copy tricks learned by nearby remote-controlled machines.
Researchers used two land-based cameras and a sensor on the helicopter to find the remote-control pilot's chosen path. The human pilot completed the move several times, and then the robotic helicopters were able to repeat it, allowing for forces like crosswinds. According to Abbeel, it's much more efficient to have machines learn by observation than to internally program each action. He adds that the technology could also be used for firefighting and searching for land mines.
Ethical Concerns
With all these advances, it's not hard to imagine a world in which cyborgs battle one another, removing humans from warfare altogether. But as long as one side has remote technology and the other doesn't, it's more likely that poorer countries at war with richer ones will see autonomous machines rolling or flying into their neighborhoods very soon, if they haven't already. As weapons become more high-tech, winning will be based less on skill and bravery than on funding and access to the latest new machines. War will continue to be an area where countries can show their economic dominance.
"The general concern about many new and emerging technologies is that they create severe inequalities among those who have access to them and those who don't," says Andrew Light, Director of the Center for Global Ethics at George Mason University. He adds that this puts an added responsibility on richer countries. "The burden of proof is on those who are proponents of the technologies in question to demonstrate that those inequalities between people who have the technology and don't have the technology will not lead to excessively harmful consequences."
For Light, remote warfare is likely to be it's own Pandora's box. If a country like the United States can be aggressive without suffering casualties (normally an important deterrent to war), it may negotiate less, attack more often and kill in greater numbers.
"The number one ethical problem with letting robots do the fighting or increasing the capacity of robotic warfare is that it will increase the likelihood of using lethal measures on the battlefield," predicts Light.
P.W. Singer, Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of the recently released book Wired for War, compares the increasing use of military robots to the invention of the atomic bomb in terms of the revolutionary impact it will have on how we conduct conflict in the future. With young soldiers fighting from Nevada instead of on the ground or from the air in Pakistan and Afghanistan, he says the field of war is changing dramatically. And while the United States is ahead now in robotic warfare, he warns there is no guarantee that this lead will last.
"We know that in technology there is no such thing as a permanent first-mover advantage," he says, adding that 43 other countries, including Russia, China, Pakistan and Iran are now working on military robots. Singer worries that the America's lag in manufacturing, science and math education puts us at a disadvantage.
Public Perception
Vitally important to whether remote warfare will affect the country's actual willingness to fight is public perception of war, which echoes the military's new remote techniques by putting a comfortable distance between the viewer and what he or she is viewing. With so many advances in Internet and mobile phone technology, more people are watching actual and simulated combat for entertainment, whether through real footage, in movies or in video games. Footage shot by cameras attached to war robots is being leaked onto the Internet, allowing people to participate vicariously, and often with enthusiasm, in the fighting at the front lines, knowing that they will not be hurt. The effect is increased by the fact that the videos turning up on American websites rarely show US soldiers being wounded. Without having to risk their own safety, civilians can use institutionalized violence as entertainment, desensitizing them even further from the destruction that is taking place.
Critics like Singer worry that the blurred lines between reality and violence will perpetuate the American public's relationship with war as a spectator sport - exciting and even cool, as long as the conflict occurs far away. This could lead the public to take its country's wars even more lightly.
Video games have capitalized on the link between war and entertainment, and in some cases are now being integrated into military technology. At iRobot, a Massachusetts-based company now famous for its robotic vacuums, engineers have developed robots that are compatible with video game remotes. Using a screen that displays the robot's point of view, iRobot's Pakbot lets soldiers control it with Playstation or X-box remotes - tools they are already familiar with.
The Pakbot has a long neck that folds in and out to pick up large and small objects. A demonstration I saw at iRobot last year showed how the machine could dislodge buried land mines and move them to another location for safe detonation. While it's not made to be operated from great distances like a flying drone, the Packbot lowers risks for soldiers in cave expeditions, By being the first to enter dark, enclosed surroundings where, until recently, infantrymen reportedly had to go in with ropes around their waists so that they could be pulled out if they were shot, the Packbot offers a safer way to scout.
In the future
Remote warfare will save lives - but only for the country that can afford the technology. Ultimately, as Singer warns, more countries will develop remote capabilities, leading to greater destruction on every side.
Humans have always engineered new ways of waging ever more intimidating and complex wars, but robots and drones have opened the flood gates to nearly endless destruction as we distance ourselves from what we are doing on the ground. A huge amount of human effort and creativity is going into war when it could be directed to more constructive ends like education, healthcare or to the provision of services to other countries that would improve international relations rather than incite conflict. Instead of being used for fighting, autonomous vehicles could be used to rescue victims of natural disasters, or help the elderly. Our potential for innovation seems endless, but robotic warfare makes me wonder how long it will be before we focus less on pursuing conflict and more on making peace.
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63 Comments so far
Show All"For Light, remote warfare is likely to be it's own Pandora's box. If a country like the United States can be aggressive without suffering casualties (normally an important deterrent to war), it may negotiate less, attack more often and kill in greater numbers."
"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." The easier it is, the more it will be used, regardless of the injustice that results. Many of the less evolved in the US will laugh at the misfortune of the poor foreign fighters and civilians, struggling against an overpowering robotic enemy. That is, until the robotic killing machines that are perfected in foreign arenas are implemented in the US in police departments and in other law enforcement operations. They could be particularly useful in keeping annoying protestors under control.
Yeah, that's the part that caught my eye too, and something I suggested the last time a story on increasing use of drones appeared on here.
Many years ago there was a quite illustrative battlefield demonstration of an anti-tank prototype, which was a compilation of off-the-shelf components.
Of course, one gets what one pays for -- and in this case much less.
The previous equipment demo & checkout must have occurred with little or no wind, because when all the big wigs were there to approve the next phase's massive infusion of funds, a disaster unimaginable almost happened ( *it happens ).
The target acquisition system was engaged, but to everyone's major surprise, the missile once launched -- reversed its direction toward the observers, and blew up the nearby outhouse. After investigation, it was determined that the spinning wind-propelled roof vent on the outhouse, was falsely interpreted as an enemy tank, so it blew it up.
Luckily, no one was inside the "throne room" at that moment.
LOL, that reminds me of this part in the HBO docu-comedy The Pentagon Wars...they described that happening during a testing of the Sgt. York anti-aircraft vehicle...hell, I've seen it so many times, I can almost quote it.
SecDef: "I was just reading this report about our supposedly spectacular Sgt. York anti-aircraft gun. According to this, it couldn't hit planed, so we test fired it at hovering helicopters. When it proved incapable of hitting hovering helicopters, we test fired it on stationary targets, and it missed those. Is this possible?"
Random brass: "There was a slight weapons malfunction."
SecDef: "And according to this, one of the missile locked onto a ventilation shaft in a latrine, and destroyed the latrine. Now, were we test firing at latrines that day?"
Random brass: "My First Sergeant was in the latrine at the time, and I can tell you, he's around to swear otherwise."
Ah, I love that movie.
Yeah zmann,
That's one of my favorites also, here's my favorite part: Kelsey Grammer plays the perfect corrupt Pentagon skimmer. He decides to pull rank as General and intercept the final report to congress. He grabbs one of his staffers to rewrite the Bradley fighting vehicle "punctuation errors." He instructs his underling: "Where it says 'the Bradley is not completely capable of even the most basic manuveurs', I want you to change it to 'the Bradley is not completely INcapable of......" and instructs him to reverse-edit everything that's negative in it.
The army staffer does his doctoring of the Air Force Report as ordered, hands it over, and then stops and asks the General: "But what does it mean General?" [the reverse changes to a finished report]
Kelsey laughs and says: "How Do I KNOW? YOU wrote it!"
Ah, my favorite part is when Burton chases the sheep.
Z,
My memory of the story shifted through the years, and the antecedent is common, as I now recall Sgr York as that off the shelf hodge podge of Reagan era crap that wouldn't work together. The helos and anti-aircraft make it all come spinning together, although I believe the story I read was used for the screen play embellishments you recall in the movie.
It's sure a small world
Wrong. Technologies come and go. Unless we have the oil to keep them powered up, we'll be back to fighting human to human. Plus those of us working in DOD will be given good domestic jobs and all these wackos can shut their mouths and stop blaming us.
You think the defense industry won't find a new way to power its weapons? And in any event, they can always create oil...everything from algae to liposuctioned human fat to coal and be converted into oil. Do you think energy is the only limiting factor in this, or do you have another reason to think the use of drones in war won't become the norm for the U.S.?
I know that they can do biofuels but it costs more to create oil out of algae, hemp, bug wastes, etc ... than it does the current method of drilling it. At least that's what I've found out. I just thought that since defense guzzles a great deal, if there's less available and it's more expensive, then it should be easier for green jobs to win. I hope that Green Jobs project is succcessful so I can finally bust out of working for DoD when the time's ripe and get a cool green job that pays just as well.
Well, that's what I hope too. But since when has cost been an issue to the defense industry? The more it costs the more they can overcharge the DoD for it actually. And what need will there be for gas guzzling tanks, helicopters, and B-52s when a few million tiny battery-powered drones can be Fed-Ex'd in and roam the countryside and kill anyone they encounter? I doubt energy will ever be a limiting factor for these things.
Ah, good point. You reminded me of what I once read when I came across discussions of nanotechnology and its uses and abuses. I'm sure the war machine will always be there but I guess it's just a matter of when it dominates vs when it doesn't. Back in Clinton's time and even Reagan's time, the war machine was not as obvious as it was in both Bush Sr's and Jr's presidencies. I don't know where Obama truly plans to go with it but I'll hold out and see even though it doesn't look good so far. Sigh.
Your attempts to redefine the 'war machine' is the squeaking of a mouse in your vain attempt to minimize its glaring manifestations over the last 60 years. Your lame diversions into the 'uses and abuses of nanotechnology' as some intellectual superiority is laughable. Where are your sources? What publications? What anything that would support your vain attempt to indicate your knowledge? Obviously, you relinquish no information, just your insipid repetition.
Your 'sigh' is just too impertinent.
How pathetic.
"bust out of working for DoD when the time's ripe and get a cool green job that pays just as well"
Max, what currently makes a job pay well is its ranking in the hierarchy of exploitation. In such a hierarchy, those at the top control those at the bottom (enslavement) and/or the things they need (food, shelter, etc).
Now if your idea of a "green" job is one where elites pay lip service to the environment while propagating business as usual then you can have a "job that pays well" and use that to continue supporting current resource allocations (e.g. 30% administrative overhead in healthcare, 10x inputs in car/truck/plane transport versus rail, 10x cost/benefit in meat versus plant food, etc).
Even in a mixed "green" economy where the elites actually clean up the environment but continue to exploit people (and drain natural resources) (the pseudo-left prescription) you can have a "job that pays well" and support the status quo allocations.
But if you support a holistic public policy that reigns in all the elites' mess of pollution, exploitation, violence, waste and gluttony then we have to change our definitions. In an economy where the people have rights to demand and produce things we truly need and with minimum violence, plunder, and chaos, everyone has a job that pays well. This is a pillar of the far left agenda.
rdtury, cool post. if one divides all US resources by the # of people in the US, should that amount not approximate the salary of a "job that pays well," well being defined as what is good for the country as opposed to any specific individual's percieved personal needs/desires?
Remote attacks may increase the rage of those being attacked, and escalate attacks on 'US interests' elsewhere. For every action there is a reaction, whether immediate of delayed (like a wave forming in the ocean only to crash later). In our warmongering, we do not seem to get this. Every action has its consequences--seen or unseen.
Sioux Rose
CHESSGAME: Good point. The critic of these technologies, Mr. Singer mentioned that U.S. students are lagging behind in science and math. Just as it only required box cutters to take down the U.S. major financial center, it would seem to me that clever computer whizzes in Asia could find ways to intercept these robots and perhaps turn the technology around so that it "returned to sender" prepared to deliver its payload.
To read daily about the money being handed to the military industrial weapons producers and/or the corrupt bankers, and learn about the ways that human beings (in America) are being more and more desensitized to violence, injustice (arguments PRO-torture), and their own basic humanity, it strikes me how much civilization (if it can be called as much) is coming truly apart. When a nation feeds the beast instead of its better nature, it creates a monster that will not remain under its rule. If indeed these robotic technologies are capable of learning and mimicking, imagine what else they will learn to immitate given the moral bankruptcy of those programming them? Playing God, when that god has all the characteristics of Mars, holds severe consequences.
Pandora never imagined THIS box!
And I thought GOD IS ALREADY PUNISHING AMERICA TO ETERNAL DAMNATION for being ignorant and dopey. So where the hell is Venus? It's one thing to make all that hardware and software. It's another thing to use it. So maybe Mars and Venus got into a duel and Mars won so here we are, no? What's all this Mars and Venus stuff that gets posted in these forums here anyway?
"It's one thing to make all that hardware and software. It's another thing to use it."
If that helps you sleep better at night, then so be it. What would there be left to make if the hardware wasn't used? Worse yet, it's sold to so-called 'friends' until they become enemies who then have to be fought (see Iraq)--with you guessed it--more military hardware, so the military-industrial-complex makes money coming and going. The arms industry knows that its bread is buttered by there being enemies who fight each other; it really doesn't care who gets burned as long as it's profits soar. Oh, of course, it will pretend to care where appropriate, but continue to produce its implements of misery and destruction. And you, dear Max, seem perfectly content with being part and parcel of this enormous killing machine.
Great article Kimberly! I think it is time to call those remotely involved in the killing of civilians "COWARDS" and for those fascinated and drawn to PLAY at war to make play an impossibility by agreeing to a set of rules whereby those wanting to make war can only harm those willing to engage in the act.
United Statesian "heroes" drop bombs from 30,000 feet and fire Hellfires from drones. Heroes, my ass. I don't see machine gunning Iraqis or raping them and then killing their families as being especially heroic either.
the transition from video game to remote warfare is extremely smooth...frightening to think a player might no know the difference, if not informed...same controller, same actions...same graphics?
drones learning maneuvers by observation, self-directing and selecting targets? am I the only one freaking out over the potential horrors here? when does the similarity to sci-fi stop being 'cute', and become concerning to the point of rejection? when do we stop listening to lines like this:
'The Pakbot has a long neck that folds in and out to pick up large and small objects. A demonstration I saw at iRobot last year showed how the machine could dislodge buried land mines and move them to another location for safe detonation. While it's not made to be operated from great distances like a flying drone, the Packbot lowers risks for soldiers in cave expeditions, By being the first to enter dark, enclosed surroundings where, until recently, infantrymen reportedly had to go in with ropes around their waists so that they could be pulled out if they were shot, the Packbot offers a safer way to scout.'
Does any thinking creature believe this is the intended purpose of these robotic\flying killing machines?
Sioux Rose
DUBET: I got the same chills...
Let's not get too scared of the worst uses of technology. There will always be good and bad sides to each technology. It's not who builds them that's the problem. It's who misuses or uses them and how and why that needs to be looked at. All these silly fears is like a dingbat eating an entire box of donuts, getting sick, and then his parents file a frivolous lawsuit against the donut store. Don't blame the store for making the donuts. Blame the kid for not moderating his intake.
'All these silly fears is like a dingbat eating an entire box of donuts, getting sick, and then his parents file a frivolous lawsuit against the donut store. Don't blame the store for making the donuts. Blame the kid for not moderating his intake.'
Forgive me if I find no comfort in your comment...when the bad side to a technology is violent, instantaneous death from an computerized, airborne platform, that's a bit different than a donut, doncha think?
"when the bad side to a technology is violent, instantaneous death from an computerized, airborne platform, that's a bit different than a donut, doncha think?"
Only when that bad side is put to use. Otherwise, can't keep killing technology now can we? Otherwise, we should have just shut up and given up the computers because some people had silly fears that computers would devour our lives. So far they haven't and they'll never. Technology doesn't kill people. People kill people.
'Otherwise, we should have just shut up and given up the computers because some people had silly fears that computers would devour our lives. So far they haven't and they'll never.'
I'm not so sure, but thanks for your response...
There is nothing to fear but fear itself.
Yeah! Stick 'em up.....
Despite all our amazing technical sophistication we humans have yet to advance beyond throwing rocks at each other over control of the watering hole.
High tech robotic killing machines-just better rocks.
Sioux Rose
REBEL NOW: True of the past several thousand years, but not all of human her-story.
her-story ??? What the heck is that ? Wait, lemme guess. You want to tell us that "history" is a male term and not a gender free word ? This is completely laughable.
max pain?
maxpayne,
First item on your new agenda: Change your screen name. You ripped it off a game, that was made into a movie. Both sucked.
Second item: Do not write until you have developed more sophistication and awareness of the article by reading it and some additional material
Third item: STFU until you can stop repeating yourself.
Forth item: Since you obviously are suffering from a chronic case of 'conceptual dissonance' you might take some time and reflect on your being.
Don't worry. We'll find some folks to redirect the misuse. We need to get the correct politicians into office first who won't reward technological misuse. From there, control will be easier and the war machine will have a better chance of getting tamed.
D.R.O.N.E. = Democrats and Republicans Order New Exterminations.
The poorer countries or terrorist-groups may not be able to fight the remote-controlled weapons, but they might get their hands on ABC-weapons and bring those home to their enemies. Having access to killer gadgets won't mean safety from repercussion in the shape of a dirty bomb or virus.
Recently the children at an elementary school in Denver had a contest to "name" the police departments latest little killing machine robot. Get 'em while their young!
The US has long had the ability to kill with relative impunity overseas, and frequently done so. While US losses in SE Asia were noticeable, they were still a very small fraction of the total casualties. More importantly, political and military "leaders" no longer lead from the front, so they are personally safe (unless the war goes nuclear, and one of these years it may very well do so.)
There is a big difference between technological feasibility and deployed weaponry. The US has used every type of weapon it has at one time or another. Thus it is to be expected the temptation to use robots and waldos will be too strong to resist, and the time to address the issue of arms escalation is before they are manufactured and deployed.
And I thought "The Terminator" was a hundred years off. Here we are, a nation of Playstation-Terminators. The desensitization to indiscriminate bloodshed is complete.
I ask:
What was the legacy of other empires who provided blood-sport "bread and circuses" to it's population?
Rome? Enslaving men and turning war into sport.
Let's all get the blood website and sit down in the virtual coliseum, while the oppressed dream about a messiah to deliver them from our evil.
Because we are enslaved by monopolies and bankers, this is our legacy. Newsflash: If we are the ones hanging men on crosses, then we have become the bad guys. But it doesn't have to be this way. We can speak out to our NeoCon so-called "Christian" neighbors. Ask them: "What did torture of the Son of God teach us?" "That it is wrong?"
Nothing at all?
Torture and Air Strikes on civilians for the sake of an oil pipeline to India is morally wrong and we know it. We must wrest control of the government back from these insane oil companies.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
"If we are the ones hanging men on crosses, then we have become the bad guys."
I don't see anything wrong with hanging Hank Paulson, Timothy Geithner, Chris Dodd, CEO's of B of A, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, etc., on some crosses. They have it coming. Or we could just vote every few years I suppose. That obviously works so well.
Yes EKATON,
We might as well vote down at the casino, we'd have better odds. Now they are putting those computer voting machines (one-armed bandits) in Asia. We showed them how they worked so well to swing votes. Funny how Harvard grads always win..... even in Asia!
I like that guy's screen name "Fake Democracy"
Remote Warfare: Cyber 'warriors' slaughtering each other's family and then sharing a drink after work.
How about exploding Gameboys that simulate who 'wins' and who 'loses' up close and real personal?
"Soldiers fighting from Nevada." They are not soldiers. And they are not fighting. Fighting involves strength and guts and experience. Three qualities little punks w/ joysticks who kill people lack. By definition.
Here is a truth-Never in the history, Herstory of the world has a guerrilla war been won by anyone but the guerrillas. Those fighting for their lives, their land and revenge. The US will get it's ass kicked in AfPak just like it did in Korea, 'Nam, Nicaragua, Cuba, & Iran.
The Law of Unintended Consequences is This-Those effing UAV's will drive the Taliban and AQ to where they are not effective. Islamabad, Karachi & Rawalpindi. They don't see through roofs.
The Cricket Team was a warm-up. Think Mumbai for style. Coordinated multi-pronged suicide attacks with explosives and automatic weapons.
UAV's will serve one purpose then. As a recruiting tool and catalyst for Hatred of America.
We could not even stop Castro. The US is not as omnipotent as it believes. Neither was the Third Reich or the British Empire on whom the Sun did Set, thank you.
Russia & China are the rising stars on this planet. And Iran. Persia. 1200 miles to Peace. One way or the other.
"Soldiers fighting from Nevada." They are not soldiers. And they are not fighting. Fighting involves strength and guts and experience. Three qualities little punks w/ joysticks who kill people lack. By definition.
They are cowards. I'd like to meet one in a bar and show him or her what a real fight is like.
It has been a long time since I posted on this site but I realize that not much has changed. Despite years of discussing the issues of warfare from childhood to adulthood, I find the matter only getting worse. Ralph Nader once explained how software engineers from the DOD's top technical universities could be redirected towards providing the technologies for the domestic sectors that have little to nothing to do with military. That was back in 2000 and while Bush Jr kept that from happening, the same thing will continue even with the Obama administration. Has anyone on this site ever considered the fact that people who try to put technologies to peaceful purposes and goals are often marginalized ? How do we progressives try to overcome it? I know some people would love to ask the usual rhetorical question "Well, what are you doing about it?" and try to ignore this important issue but perhaps there needs to be cooperation from more people towards redirecting our technoligies from military to domestic.
I suppose what we need is someone to fund technology for peaceful and progressive uses. Obviously this government won't do it. Would a solution be to start some sort of investment or commercial bank that lends out money specifically for these purposes?
Credit unions can be used in place of banks although I guess the limits would be the amounts. I've only been in credit unions though. You also have to watch out for potential outlawing just like it happened to hemp in 1937.
I don't think nanotechnology that can be used for batteries and solar panels is about to be outlawed anytime soon. My cousin told me of this electric vehicle which uses nanotech batteries to multiply the surface area of the battery nearly infinitely and this hold far more power...it's good for a 100 mile trip in a pick-up truck I think, and with some special charger, can recharge in 10 minutes...imagine those at gas stations! Or, at home with a regular plug, it'll recharge in 4 hours.
Cool zmann. I just put in solar powered roof vents from cost co. They're awsome. They suck all the hot air out of your attic only when the sun hits em (that's when it's hot), and prevent mold and rot in the winter. Rooms are way the heck cooler. Whisper quiet, tax deductible,
12 amp panels with special brushless low-resistance motors. All built in. No wiring required. slipped in in about 30 mins. They were about 350 bucks. One will do about 1000 square feet or more depending on the shape of your attic. Now if battery charged-by-solar vehicles like you're talking about become available, we can kill two evils at once: Coal plants and Oil companies! (cuz electric cars are not so hot environmentally/economically when you have to plug them into your power meter.)
But the Sun can't monopolized by the rockefeller/bush energy extortionists! Gotta get off the grid.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson