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Stirrings of a New Push for Military Option on Iran
WASHINGTON - "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August," explained then-White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card back in September 2002, in answer to queries about why the administration of George W. Bush had not launched its campaign to rally public opinion behind invading Iraq earlier in the summer.
And while it's only July - and less than a month after the U.N., the European Union (EU) and the U.S. Congress approved new economic sanctions against Iran - a familiar clutch of Iraq war hawks appear to be preparing the ground for a major new campaign to rally public opinion behind military action against the Islamic Republic.
Barring an unexpected breakthrough on the diplomatic front, that campaign, like the one eight years ago, is likely to move into high gear this autumn, beginning shortly after the Labor Day holiday, Sept. 6, that marks the end of summer vacation.
By the following week, the November mid-term election campaign will be in full swing, and Republican candidates are expected to make the charge that Democrats and President Barack Obama are "soft on Iran" their top foreign policy issue.
In any event, veterans of the Bush administration's pre-Iraq invasion propaganda offensive are clearly mobilizing their arguments for a similar effort on Iran, even suggesting that the timetable between campaign launch and possible military action - a mere six months in Iraq's case - could be appropriate.
"By the first quarter of 2011, we will know whether sanctions are proving effective," wrote Bush's former national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, and Israeli Brig. Gen. Michael Herzog in a paper published last week by the Washington Institute for Near Policy (WINEP), a think tank closely tied to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).
"(T)he administration should begin to plan now for a course of action should sanctions be deemed ineffective by the first or second quarter of next year. The military option must be kept on the table both as a means of strengthening diplomacy and as a worst-case scenario," they asserted.
While Hadley and Herzog argued that the administration should begin planning military options now - presumably to be ready for possible action as early as next spring - others are calling for more urgent and demonstrative preparations.
''We cannot afford to wait indefinitely to determine the effectiveness of diplomacy and sanctions," wrote former Democratic Sen. Charles Robb and Air Force Gen. Charles Wald (ret.) in a column published in Friday's Washington Post in which they warned that Tehran "could achieve nuclear weapons capability before the end of this year, posing a strategically untenable threat to the United States".
"If diplomatic and economic pressures do not compel Iran to terminate its nuclear program, the U.S. military has the capability and is prepared to launch an effective, targeted strike on Tehran's nuclear and military facilities," they wrote.
Their column was based on the latest of three reports promoting the use of military pressure on Iran released by the Bipartisan Policy Center (BPC) since 2008 and overseen by BPC's neo-conservative foreign policy director, Michael Makovsky.
Makovsky, whose brother is a senior official at WINEP, served as a consultant to the controversial Pentagon office set up in the run-up to the Iraq War to find evidence of operational ties between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein as a justification for the invasion.
The BPC report, "Meeting the Challenge: When Time Runs Out", urged the Obama administration, among other immediate steps, to "augment the Fifth Fleet presence in the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman, including the deployment of an additional (aircraft) carrier battle group and minesweepers to the waters off Iran; conduct broad exercises with its allies in the Persian Gulf; ...initiate a 'strategic partnership' with Azerbaijan to enhance regional access..." as a way of demonstrating Washington's readiness to go to war.
"If such pressure fails to persuade Iran's leadership, the United States and its allies would have no choice but to consider blockading refined petroleum imports into Iran," it went on, noting that such a step would "effectively be an act of war and the U.S. and its allies would have to prepare for its consequences".
Of course, some Iraq hawks, most aggressively Bush's former U.N. ambassador John Bolton, have insisted that neither diplomacy nor sanctions, no matter how tough, would be sufficient to dissuade Tehran from acquiring a nuclear weapons and that military action - preferably by the U.S., but, if not, by Israel - would be necessary, and sooner rather than later.
Since the Jun. 12, 2009 disputed elections and the emergence of the opposition Green Movement in Iran, a few neo- conservatives, notably Michael Rubin of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and Michael Ledeen of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD), have argued that a military attack could prove counter-productive by rallying an otherwise discontented - and possibly rebellious - population behind the regime.
But with the Green Movement seemingly unable to challenge the government in the streets that argument has been losing ground among the hawks who, in any event, blame the opposition's alleged weakness on Obama's failure to provide it with more support.
"Unfortunately, President Obama waffled while innocent Iranians were killed by their own government," wrote William Kristol and Jamie Fly, in Kristol's Weekly Standard last month.
"It's now increasingly clear that the credible threat of a military strike against Iran's nuclear program is the only action that could convince the regime to curtail its ambition," wrote the two men, who direct the Foreign Policy Initiative (FPI), the successor organization of the neo- conservative-led Project for the New American Century (PNAC) that played a key role in preparing the ground for the Iraq invasion.
Neo-conservative and other hawks have also pounced on reported remarks by United Arab Emirates (UAE) Amb. Yousef al-Otaiba, at a retreat sponsored by The Atlantic magazine in Colorado this week to nullify another obstacle to military action - the widespread belief that Washington's Arab allies oppose a military attack on Iran by the U.S. or Israel as too risky for their own security and regional stability.
"We cannot live with a nuclear Iran," Otaiba was quoted as saying in a Washington Times article by Eli Lake, a prominent neo-conservative journalist.
"Mr. Otaiba's ...comments leave no doubt what he and most Arab officials think about the prospect of a nuclear revolutionary Shiite state," the Wall Street Journal's editorial board, a major media champion of the Iraq War, opined. "They desperately want someone, and that means the U.S. or Israel, to stop it, using force if need be."
Otaiba was interviewed at the conference by The Atlantic's Jeffrey Goldberg, an influential U.S.-Israeli writer who in a widely noted essay published by The New Yorker magazine in 2002 claimed that Hussein was supporting an al Qaeda group in Kurdistan and that the Iraqi leader would soon possess nuclear weapons.
Goldberg, who asserted in his blog this week that "the idea of a group of Persian Shi'ites having possession of a nuclear bomb ...certainly scares [Arab leaders] more than the reality of the Jewish bomb," is reportedly working on an essay on the necessity of attacking Iran's nuclear facilities for publication by The Atlantic in September.
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161 Comments so far
Show AllIs the human race crazy? Is this a rhetorical question? I don't even know. How can we continue pushing these insane arguments for killing other humans who aren't threatening us? Is war some kind of viruent bacteria or virus that infects Americans and causes them to behave and think in such a twisted fashion?
But then, I've always felt that religion was a major factor and impetus in the "evil men do." How can they be stopped from completing these wicked plans?
"Stirrings of a New Push for Military Option on Iran"
Even the headline has been carefully crafted to kill Israel's enemies. The stirrings are just the normal movement of people and ideas. A New Push indicates that there are new, improved reasons for killing people the Israeli-American elite don't control yet.
And the use of the words "military option" to signify bombing and killing innocent people... This is perhaps the best anti-Islamic pro-colonial spin I have ever seen Common Dreams feature as its lead article.
Were the editors forced to run it at the threat of anthrax?
Also, if Jim Lobe is "leftist" as it says in his Wiki bio, then why is this article so uncritical? Was Jim threatened with the anthrax as well?
I took this article as the reporting 'about' the latest anti-Iran arguments and plans, not in itself an argument for doing these horrid things. Nevertheless, it's shocking how some people who inexplicably have a voice, an open line of communication to the public, are so in favor of the U.S. continuing to meddle in the affairs of others as if we had the 19th century 'god-given right' to do so, as if we stood on superior moral ground, as if we were both different from and better than others. What an insulting and disastrous illusion!
The Persian empire and culture, as the Chinese and many others,is vastly older than ours, it's religion is younger and arguably more 'authentic' than ours, and Iran possesses the same rights of independent nationhood that we claim. We are a schoolyard bully with a gun looking for (still another) somebody to use it on.
How the times have changed. Ten years ago the USA enjoyed a certain place among respectful nations. Today the USA is the world's numero uno menace, and no other nation even comes close. My estimate is that by the end of this decade a powerful world alliance will be formed to challenge the renegade nation and in the end it will have to pay reparations to Native Americans and African Americans along with Filipinos, Vietnamese, Iraqis, Afghanis, Palestinians, Iranians, Mexicans, and many others.
I think you misjudge this article. The writer obviously brought alot of information together to make readers like us aware of this 'push'. Do you think he has to 'tell' us this is a bad thing!
Plus 'A New Push indicates that there are new, improved reasons for killing' no, he means there is a new offense by those pushing for 'killing', not a new reason.
Jim Lobe has been warning people for years about Bush, and now the Obomber plans for this crime. He is not promoting it, just telling everyone what to expect from the WAR PARTY.
I get your point that Lobe isn't critical enough. I think of Noam Chomsky who can convey the same factual information while simultaneously flaying the warmongers into thin slivers for quick sautee in the skillet.
Without stirrings of war, it would be a failed business.
Now a days war and medicine are about the only profitable American businesses to find jobs in.
So, still in the majority Baby Boomer American Mind that thinks Obama is a socialist, jobs jobs means War War.
Well, this addiction to war is about to run its course and become the new unaffordable disease if a bombing of nuclear plants in Iran or blockading Iran's gas imports happens.
That is why it probably won't happen but....
People like to think about a new war even before it happens like this article relates so maybe this time the disease of war will be all it can be.
I can't stop it but maybe it will be the final lesson that we still haven't learned.
With the other two wars winding down how are we going to keep that military budget in full force? Answer: pick another fight.
The two wars are not winding down. We have only been 'told' that they will.
I would have to say that religion is the 'excuse' rather than the impetus in the evil that men do. Religion, like nationalism, is used to rally the masses behind various causes. Sometimes these causes are for the good of humankind (i.e. disaster relief efforts) but unfortunately religion ("I'm a God fearing Christian!") and nationalism ("I'm a patriotic American who would die for my country!") are used frequently by well-heeled corporations to manipulate the public in a way to increase profit margins.
In the case of Iran, corporate lackeys in Washington see war with Iran as very profitable for the military industrial complex. Dozens of super companies like Boeing, Lockheed, GM, Westinghouse, GE stand to gain major government contracts (meaning the bottom 80% of Americans will once again finance this insanity) if war breaks out. Other multi-nationals like BP, Exxon, Shell, Haliburton, etc. will also profit enormously by securing oil fields in Iran and thereby slowing down any transition to alternative fuel policies in the U.S. Finally the corporate media will benefit enormously with increased viewer ship (people love watching war on T.V.), which translates into higher advertising revenues. We can pretty much guarantee that the MSM will justify any military option that the corporate lackeys in Washington conjure up while playing the Nationalist and religious cards yet again.
The only thing going for the common Joe Citizen is the fact that a few other American mega corporations stand to lose if we begin to indiscriminately start killing Iranians. These same 'counter corporations' also have their corporate lackeys in D.C. who oppose such moves. This translates into every interest being represented in Washington except for the 'public interest' leaving us at the mercy of the private sector.
'a few other American mega corporations stand to lose if we begin to indiscriminately start killing Iranians' Who are they? And are they hiring?
Although I realise that the excellent Jim Lobe is only compiling the evidence from hawkish so-called 'pundits' from the AEI and WINEP and possibly CSIS, I am fuly confident that the pessimistic scenarion he describes will not take place under Obama's watch. The President, for all the demeaning talk about his being O'Bomber and Commanded-in-Cheif that even I myself sometimes become the echo, is a very decent, rational, in his own way, spiritualy-minded, man. Ahmadi-Nejad is, of course far more spiritually-minded, but he is not much less rationl than Obama and certainly far more clearminded than the AIPAC buffoons and the ideologically warped William Kristol and only-slightly-less-warped Michael Rubin. The latest news is that even the Speaker of Iran's Majlis, Mr Ali Larijani, who had at one point been Iran's nuclear negotiator and had run against Ahmadi-Nejad in his first-time bid for election as President of Iran, voiced a strong disagreement against Ahmadi-Nejad for his economc mismanagement, in doling out handouts to poverty-stricken citizens, instead of creating jobs. Such a highly-publicised criticism would have been unthinkable a few monts ago. The present context has two crucially different parameters: (1) the highly-fraught context of a knife-edge between the "stike against Iran's nuclear research facilities" that Jim Lobe evokes, and the tensions surrounding the aid flotilla pressure on Israel lift its blockade of Gaza, maybe release Marwan Barghouti, and abandon its 'exceptionalist' stance on having to sign up to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT); (2) the serendipitous conincidence that Ahmadi-Nejad has asked the Constitutional watchdog to strike down two measures voted by Parlaiment to cit back subsidies. The opportunity to assert the power of the Iranian Islamic democracy to steer the country to the course of domestic economic and international diplomatic sanity was golden, and the Speaker of the Majlis did not miss it. President Obama, most likely advised by relatively-hawkish Hillary, will certainly appreciate and act accordingly.
It occurred to me the other day as to why a Russia might welcome this war.
Russia is the largest exporter of Oil and Natural Gas in the world. An attack on Iran would likely see Natural Gas prices and Oil prices increase dramaticaly.
This would draw literaly TRILLIONS of Western Dollars and Euros into Russia.
At the same time a China has learned in Iraq and Afghanistan, that all it has to do is stand on the sidelines and use their State owned Corporations to buy up the natural resources of those countries while the USA wastes its treasure (borrowed from China) subjugating them.
Bingo! Hand that (wo)man a cigar!
That's been the plan of the Russians and the Chinese all along: Watch America destroy itself, and pick up the pieces.
And for the sake of the ecosphere, the sooner the better.
A Cuban cigar!
- Tehran "could achieve nuclear weapons capability -
As I repetitively repeat ad nauseum, Public Law 107-40 drives all this insanity, legitimates it for the MIC.
'preventing future terrorism' is enshrined into law.
'Preventing future nuclear terrorism by Iran' will be the match that lights the fire.
America is at war with future enemies - all that's needed, "From a marketing point of view", is to convincingly create the evidence that Iran will have nukes. Then, the machinery takes over and nobody can stop it.
Remember, when the NIE of a few years ago could not be suppressed any longer, we found out that our Intelligence could find no evidence of a nuclear weapons program, or find plans for one. Several other nation's intelligence agencies concurred. The estimate was that, should Iran ever decide on a nuclear weapons program, it would take a decade to make one bomb.
What happened? Within a week, the hawks were screaming, "My God, we've got to nuke them before they get a bomb!"
Israel, which has signed no treaties or agreements and already has from two to four hundred nuclear missiles poised for launch, is full of such paranoia and hatred that nothing less than the subjugation or destruction of any Islamic government that may stand in the way of their "manifest destiny" of a world owned and/or controlled by the Israeli government. They know it works. Look at the United States.
Its all up to the leadership of Iran to choose that will protect them from an attack and war of occupation
Its business as usual for the American terorist empire, they have stacked the political deck, and they will bomb your power plants, water utilitys, communications , and put your country into the poor house, just like the other to wars of occupation have put us in America into the poor house.
We have surely gone insane by the persute of blood and oil, and in Iran, if they can not understand that the world powers that control the USA military want their oil, well , they are going to loose everything.
"We cannot live with a nuclear Iran," Otaiba was quoted as saying in a Washington Times article by Eli Lake, a prominent neo-conservative journalist."
We are not going to continue living if the INSANITIES of both the United States' and Israel's leadership continue on their pure-d EVIL course, along with some equally NUTZ "friends" and allies.
Psychopathic doesn't even seem to be enough of a description anymore.
This is DARK, DEVILISH MADNESS.
... and I cannot even believe sometimes that I am speaking or writing the above words.
But I suppose when it finally sunk in to the majority of minds and hearts in Germany of the 1930's and into the 1940's, as the unprovoked, massive brutalities against others were unleashed by one, Adolph Schickelgruber as leader, along with a host of others who supported and encouraged him and followed his lead and did so with a twisted delight and savoring of others' misery and destruction, ... when it finally sunk in, ... it was too late.
Too many of the "common people" were brainwashed enough and fully convinced of the rightness of "the cause" to cheer them all on, and self-righteously and angrily called for the punishment of others who were not four-square behind their beloved FUHRER and his GANG. And they sure lived, if they did stay alive, to regret it.
History repeats with terrible lessons, which, at this precarious point in our human history, may be the last lessons we never learned.
My god, this is SICK, SICK STUFF!
And how many can see it, and how many still can't?
I mourn the passing of my possible country as it rots from within, and its putrid flesh is cannabalized hour after hour, day after day, by a relative handful of blindly, buzzing maggots posing as human beings.
Forgive them for they know not what they do?
Quite a few of them know damn well what they are doing, and the others, as always, are getting ego-trip, power-payoffs by going along for the ride.
"Veni, vidi, vici. Hail, Caesar," but always, sooner or later, it all falls down, and not with "a shout, but a whimper."
And when it does fall or blow up, will there be anyone left to see it, to hear it, to know it?
Can't get more doom and gloom then that. But it is that serious now. And we are fools if we do not understand the dire emergency of these current times.
/cm
Just think Creator gets to watch all this stuff and doesn't even need to buy cable or the Net to know what's going on upon the earth. God already knows it's all sick. You never actually have to inform Creator about anything as Creator already "Knows."
Creator has been watching and listening from the foundations of Creation. This Universe could just be a free form aquarium floating around Creator's home, or just located somewhere in Creator's mind.
It is all very strange, huh? Creator and other living beings in Creator's realm watching and listening. I took friends out to dinner a few years ago. While we eating I began talking to them about inter-dimensional travel. You should have seen the people in the place looking at us.
I am fun to go to out dinner with. As Jesus might say, eat good you never know which supper might be your last.
Life is good. What an experience! It's always best to forgive
WHEN Obama is told to attack Iran, he'll do it. That could be ten minutes from now or a year. But whenever it is, he'll do it.
Here we go again, just like with all of the economic morons that drove our economy into the dirt, and are now claiming that we need to give up our retirements and Medicare so the rich can get richer, here come the war mongers who got it all wrong as far as Afghanistan and Iraq were concerned. Now they think that we should be listening to their rantings about Iran. Well sorry guys, if you want war with Iran it's going to cost you this time. You want war, first thing you will need to do is come across with hard evidence, not just CNN and FOX telling us so. Second, Mr. Hadley, Kristol and Fly and all the other war at any cost Rambo's, including Rahm Emanuel and Hillary Clinton, this time you're going to have to dig out your ammo belts and your M-16's, because this time you guys are going to beat the Marines onto the beachs. Of course Barack Obama being President and all can't be expected to join this expeditionary force, so we will send his loving wife and two darling daughters to take his place.
Now we will all be able to see what kind of stomach all these war hawks have for real war.
I do enjoy your fantasy scenario, of how hard evidence will have to be shown this time, etc etc, however I just wanted to point out something…
Characterizing those who took us to war in Iraq as those "who got it all wrong as far as Afghanistan and Iraq were concerned" is to use the same rationale used by those who are apologists for the intentional acts of taking this nation to war based on lies, and using propaganda to achieve their means.
It wasn't a failure of intelligence, because the 'intelligence' of their propaganda of course was cooked.
I don't think the world can survive with the US armed with
Nuclear bombs.
Once there is evidence that the U.S. is on the path to war with Iran, the ball will then be left with the American public to hit the streets with massive nonviolent civil disobedience. With the current economic mess and loss of jobs, maybe millions of Americans will be ready, understanding that the American Empire is destroying any hope for a more just nation.
When Empires wage war, they have to wage war against their own citizens.
What?
The major peace groups like UFPJ, Code Pink and MoveOn are deeply tied to the Democratic Party. The "wars" in Afghanistan and Iraq (not to mention others) always had and continue to have a great deal of bi-partisan support. The movements we create must be independent of the duopoly if we want them to be effective. Otherwise, they will be co-opted.
"...maybe millions of Americans will be ready, understanding that the American Empire is destroying any hope for a more just nation."
–(Stephen V. Riley)
–A "maybe," that sadly, we already know the answer to.
Perhaps our take, as foreigners, is different– but we do not think Americans are interested in the least, in "a more just nation." We believe that even here–in self enamored San Francisco– in the putatively 'most left city in America,' that this is not the case. One shudders to contemplate the depth of abasement in the rest of America.
As far as "massive, nonviolent civil disobedience" in America? Well, that is simply a joke.
The fact that even at their sharpest and most forward, civil protests remain passively, non violent in both form and spirit. And that is the problem. There is no serious political resistance, in fact there are no real politics in America. American politics is no where near being remotely informed enough by the 'reality of things' to create new forms of militant political action outside the auspices of state sanctioned venues.
But Americans are very good indeed, at passively allowing an overwhelming militarized and lethal police state apparatus to be benignly formed, as if it were welcoming a morning in May.
In short, the 'proper' response cannot be formulated, much less activated. There is nothing to inform, and certainly not inspire a concrete challenge to the fascist state.
Perhaps is it because Americans truly love their nativist fascism and its clandestine enabler and erstwhile collaborator, liberalism?
We were in London during the truly massive demonstrations leading up to the Iraq war. We were told the demonstrations, even in a small city like San Francisco, were equally astonishing. Yet the truth is that both remained merely ornamental, if not passively decorative in effect.
The hegemony of the protest as 'image,' seemed to stealthily shadow these almost telegenic spectacles– where what was visible were not intimations of liberation– but paradoxically, symptoms of a collective, liminal oppression.
Nothing happened, nothing was changed, the masses were massed, and the political establishment the world over simply ignored it. It was defeated, before it began. It was a 'Fata Morgana' or a mirage, revelatory only of a lack of seriousness and total impotency before the capitalist monolith.
The acknowledgement of this defeat, which is as much spiritual as it is structural or political, is at the very least, an inkling, a premonition of what more needs to be done.
Of how much further there is to go.
This article was very disappointing and one-sided. Mr. Lobe only tells half the story at best. He highlights the so-called neo-cons largely from the previous administration.
He fails to outline how pro-war parasites withing the OBAMA administration are advocating virtually the same policy. The Obama folks supported sanctions that are a virtual act of war already. Uncle Bobby Gates is from the previous administration; Rahm Emmanuel, Hillary Clinton, and others are also imperialist war mongers.
In addition, the author uses frames and metaphors of the Right Wing:
"Of course, some Iraq hawks, most aggressively Bush's former U.N. ambassador John Bolton"
John Bolton is not a "hawk" he is an accessory to war crimes. If one must use an anthtropomorphic metaphor, a "leech" or "parasite" would be more fitting. A hawk actually kills what it needs to survive. Bolton and his ilk don't do anything but profit and feed off of those that someone else actually kills.
For that matter the Obama administration are now war criminals as well.
NO.
NO WAR
Any foolish and deadly attack on Iran will have “NOTHING!” whatsoever to do with Iran’s nuclear capablility, and everything to do with The Iranian Oil Bourse, an encroachment on the dollars supremacy, which Jim Lobe conveniently fails to mention in his fluff piece.
The Iranian Oil Bourse was inaugurated on November 1, 2009. On February 4, 2008 the Iranian Cabinet approved the creation of the oil bourse in two stages - first for crude and second for oil byproducts transactions.
Lobe’s article is merely meant to assuage the sheople into yet another illegal, manufactured, Middle East war of aggression and hegemony. Zbig’s “Grand Chessboard” unfolding right before our very eyes.
Was it Pogo who said "We have met the enemy and he is US?"
Tony
Certainly, there are many on the far right in the US and in Israel who would welcome war with Iran. But I think it is unlikely because of the growing closeness between Tehran and the Iraqis, and in particular with the Kurds, which has already made a farce of the sanctions. Just yesterday, the New York Times reported that a thousand tanker trucks of refined petroleum are crossing daily from Kurdistan into Iran. To further complicate matters, Israel is also cultivating ties with the Kurds, who play all sides very well, while its old relationship with Turkey deteriorates.
I think the chance for war has passed for now, and even Netanyahu, for all his political posturing on the subject, will see that. Without Turkey, Israel needs small states like Kurdistan and Georgia to extend its defense perimeter, and Iran's possession of a few nuclear bombs is, frankly, irrelevant to Israel's actual defense. And Israel's defense is what the proposed war is all about, after all.
If by "far right... in Israel" you mean the average citizen as well as the elected leaders.
Are there no members of Congress who remember the lies about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction and the urgent need to stop him before he used them to .... afraid I don't know what. Just "before he used them," I guess.
Is Congress (and much of the media and the public) so gullible as to be taken in for a second time??
Does the "intelligence" about Iran's "intentions" come from the only country that fears and perhaps hates it -- Israel?
Or is the rumor true that the U.S. enacted tougher, extra sanctions in the hope that they would at least delay an Israeli assault on Iran? If there is one, are we going to rush to Israel's side or, if we care about peace, rush to help Iran fend Israel off?
Congress is not gullible, it's culpable. The media are not gullible, they're propagandists. The public... ah! Yes! Now you have gullible! But even that gullibility is no longer necessary, since the Corporate State of America can do whatever it wants with nothing to fear from its placid, flaccid, vapid consumers (formerly known as citizens).
I guess we Americans are the stupidest murderers in history! We suupport a government that lied about the attacks of 9/11. Fabricated evidence that Iraq was a threat to U.S. Security and then invaded it and after getting their man decided that occupation was the best course of action. Then , we had the invasion of Afghanistan and claimed that al-Qaeda was responsible for the attacks of 9/11. After invading and occupying Afghanistan, the enemy changed to the Taliban and anyone claimed to be insurgents or militants....U.S. Government and Brzezinski failed to inform the people of the U.S. that "They" created al-Qaeda and "They" put the Taliban in power.
Now, The United States Power Elite want to go back into Iran!!! On June 6, 2010, 10 U.S. Warships were moved through the Suez Canal along with an Israeli Warship and one aircraft carrier.....That contingent of warships then practiced bombing raids off the coast of Israel for two weeks and then moved on to the Persian Gulf! My, my, my, are we stupid! (The ships were protected by 4,000 Egyptian soldiers.)
Dr Rauni Kilde of Finland claims that NATO countries must send ships to a location north of Norway in September. She claims that the purpose is to threaten Russia after Iran is attacked around September....MY, my, my, are we stupid.
The Bilderberg Club met this past June in Sitges, Spain (That is Henry Kissinger's Group). According to American Free Press, "They" decided that Iran has to be attacked. My, my, my, are we stupid.
President Kohler had to resign his position as President of Germany because he admitted that Germany was in Afghanistan to protect its vital economic interests. Because he spoke the words of Brzezinski, (1980 Carter Doctrine, "If United States VITAL INTERESTS are threatened, the U.S. has the right to use military force.")he was forced to resign. Kohler forgot that it was a "War on Terror"!
The United States has over 1,000 bases throughout the world and they all need oil products to function.........We are stupid, as we approve the murdering of: Iraqis, Afghans, and Pakistanis so that we can have control of the oil and "The Oil Pipeline"!
"The Bilderberg Club met this past June in Sitges, Spain (That is Henry Kissinger's Group). According to American Free Press, "They" decided that Iran has to be attacked. My, my, my, are we stupid."
Guys, start being more aware of your sources e.g. American Free Press is hardly any sort of credible source. They have actively promoted the Obama wasn't born in the USA campaign, they are ultra world conspiracy theorists, support all sorts of crazy ultra rightwing policies and theories and right-wing-nuts. They are also anti-semitic, racist and pro gun.
Commondreams.org is attracting too many posters who believe in sources like American Free Press. I have read here at CD for a very long time but am starting to think the right wing world conspiracy fanatics have been gradually taking over much of the agenda and discussion through their posts on commondreams.
What do you think?
What is bothering you, the guy's source or the inference of that groups activities and origins:
Well here is the Times as owned by another Zionist:
Secretive Bilderberg Club ready for protests
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7142478.ece
Or did you think these political sociopaths, and corporate/media oligarchs get together in Spain to compare tans? So if you say the word "conspiracy" it makes it all ridiculous, or something. Yes it is ridiculous that elected and appointed government officials meet secretly to sew up the world in an organization founded by Nazis and royalists.
I noticed the timesonline article link you gave has actually a mocking tone; surely you're not suggesting this article is evidence of the Bilderberg meeting deciding Iran is to be attacked as is claimed by America Free Press article. The Timesonline article is actually a critical commentary on reports like in the AFP article.
My use of "conspiracy" is not meant to come across as a ridicule. It is much more serious than that. I was being too cautious by avoiding the real title for these people's theory of how the whole world works. It is called the JEWISH CONSPIRACY THEORY. It is the Nazi theory that Hitler went by and is still pushed by people like America Free Press.
I am in no doubt that there are Zionists and other powerful Jews who try to influence the US to bomb Iran. I also believe lots of them probably meet to discuss things they have in common including dealing with Israel's enemies. Sometimes they even try to meet secretly as do lots of lobbying and manipulating groups.
Commondreams people should know which sources have a well worked out ideology that the whole world is manipulate by secret Jewish conspirators working from both the left and the BIG MONEY people...Beware of these neo Nazi sources that can not be trusted AT ALL. Far too many contributers here seem to me to have been influenced by these extreme right wing sources of which AFP is but one example.
Jan, I noted what you say, and I agree that there is a lot of rubbish out there from ALL sides.
BTW may I suggest you do not use AFP as an acronym for American Free Press because it is in fact the accepted acronym for Agence France Presse.
My reality is not all or nothing, right and left is for fools and I don't like loaded labels too much either. Like you I am aware that there are many groups that try to influence world affairs, some more or less affectively and certainly more or less sane.
That some are based on western moneyed interests to the exclusion of Arabs and Asians is to their own detriment, and when they can call to attendance the present and recent leaders, policy makers and higher echelons of the most powerful "democracies" and yet are dominated by Zionists, Jewish or otherwise, while having an elitist history tied to similar groups with founding members in Nazi SS corporate associations it does not bode well for world co-existence. In short the Bilderberg Founder, Dutch Prince Bernhard was not only a member of Nazi party but an important member of the SS organization of corporate support of the Nazi movement. Bernhard along with Kranefuss are instrumental with Himmler's leadership which led to the Keppler circle (Circle of Friends). look up : Wall Street and the Inner Nazi Circle,
http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_09.htm
Now if you want to think on an actual plots and plans to build a Fourth Reich and wonder what it might look like today, what companies, who and why, see the Red House Report:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1179902/
Revealed-The-secret-report-shows-Nazis-planned-Fourth-Reich--EU.html
What most people, even many Jews, do not realise is that Zionism has little to do with the general "interests" of the Jewish people as a whole, and is far more about exertion of nationalist political power, and its advocates have often been quite frank about their willingness to sacrifice any number of Jews for the goal of establishing Israel.
A month after the Nazi pogrom against Germany's Jews, famously known as Kristallnacht, Ben-Gurion (the 1st Israeli Prime Minister) provided an interesting mathematical formula for saving German Jewish kids. He stated in December 1938:
"If I knew it was possible to save all [Jewish] children of Germany by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter----because we are faced not only with the accounting of these [Jewish] children but also with the historical accounting of the Jewish People."
Their methods and documented extensive collaboration with the Nazis in the 1930s although judiciously ignored and avoided today in the approved histories, should be remembered and may be seen as a harbinger of things present and perhaps worse to come.
In fact there are many parallels between the Zionists and Nazis not least that both are founded on a racial-tribal-cultural myth of origin, which has been transformed into a nationalist view to bring a disparate group of people into a national identity, and put them "against" their identified "enemies".
Although you will find further references to these ideas in other comments I made here you can read more about this subject: Zionism and the Third Reich as written by Mark Weber, or you can find more references at Jews Against Zionism web site:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/index.cfm
Yes, there is a lot of trash out there, but sifting through many things including the trash and without putting too many preconceived labels on (neo-Nazi lies, Zionist propaganda, etc.) and studying the evidence closely with cross reference and verification, as any good investigator should, one can actually get a glimpse behind the curtain of power, past and present, and see the delusional sociopaths trying to pull the strings.
Thanks for the advice about the AFP trap. Quite some time ago I saw an article by AFP and assumed it was Agence France Presse, until I went to the source itself to realise it was American Free Press. It left me quite angry for a while at what I thought was a cunning misrepresentation but I got over it.
I have no problems with stories that emerged about what someone like Ben Gurion said. His fanatical commitment to the Zionist cause is not in doubt. Many of our leaders are also prepared to sacrifice people for their various causes and they aren't all that committed to much.
I also have no trouble understanding how Wall Street is into anything and everything for all sorts of reasons. But I am not impressed with the writer on politics on that Reformed Theology site. Being of Dutch origin different lines of my ancestors had to deal with both fanatical Dutch Calvinists as well as Fanatical French anti Calvinists. I have a long standing interest in various religious denominations involvement into world politics. The connections or the significance of the connections made by Anthony C. Sutton need to be questioned in the light of a sounder understanding of how the world works other than from the point of view of one coloured by the light of Calvinist theology. The black and white thinking of the saved and the dammed, as well as the theology of predestination are too significant in Suttons mind as a Calvinist, to allow him to fairly assess the real significance of many of the things he selectively discovers.
There are many groups out there doing research and you really need to take each one with the grain of salt that their ideological reference group deserves.
I don't really know the name to give to groups I have read who appear to me to believe in a modern version of the JEWISH CONSPIRACY THEORY. They are not necessarily Nazis nor are they skinhead type Neo Nazis. But there is a huge difference between exposing the nasty deviousness of Zionism, compared with those who espouse a theory that is a modern version of the Jewish conspiracy theory (which is never called that these days by its proponents. They don't even attack Jews straight out but its in there) Even though Zionists are always trying to attack their opponents as being anti Semetic, and always call anti-Zionist Jews "Self hating Jews", I am not sucked in by that and in fact try to expose that. However, it is easy to be swept along uncritically by information selected and coloured by people who actually believe Jews are behind the scenes running everything. There are many other causal factors that should be held in balance against the over exagerated emphases on conspirators which is nearly as dangerous as trying to work out who the spooks are in a group; these things both feel a lot like paranoia...that could even be psychotic. Group psychoses are very dangerous... the witches of Salem, Kristol Nacht etc, reds under the bed and its "mutually Assured Destruction" (MAD), and now the war on Islam (i.e.the "war on terrorism")
Jan, you write, "There are many other causal factors that should be held in balance against the over exagerated emphases on conspirators which is nearly as dangerous as trying to work out who the spooks are in a group; these things both feel a lot like paranoia...that could even be psychotic. Group psychoses are very dangerous... "
Yes, and mass hysteria and group psychosis is absolutely part of the useful tactic to break down reality. If you think about it hard enough you might see that, FIFA's, condescending elitist CEO, Joseph Blatter and their 5 billion earning on the World Cup can be seen as part of the imperial conspiracy to keep the minds of the masses entertained and off reality.... profitably. If only people could get so excited about rejecting the fascism that has them by the short and hairies and creaps further to enslaving them each day. Yes, I'm probably half mad too, but its all relative...
I couldn't agree more about the casual factors, as they say life goes on. Not everything is a conspiracy, but neither is everything as it seems or is purported to be. But you and millions of others are "made" to identify relationships as self evident and further conditioned to feel comfortable with, even to ridicule other relationships that are obviously incongruous, by the same methods that guarantees successful "merchandising". (What is the first word that you think of with the word "Islam"? I bet it was not "peace or harmony"
There are lots of red herrings left for you to grab if you start thinking or if you grab without thinking deeply enough. Only one of those is the concept of a "JEWISH CONSPIRACY THEORY". It allows a supposed protagonist or antagonist to then hold up any Jew in the world, especially those in banking, publishing, and films etc. as a conspirator and of course it is ridiculous to suggest that all these people are even interested in a political power agenda. Like you and me, most are just getting on with their lives.
The Zionists though have been the Jew's worst enemy and some Jews may have tricked their fellow Jews into conspiring, even without knowing it, with an organization as crooked and contrived as the Mafia. Anti-Semitism is the Zionists strongest tool as they hide behind Judaism to gain power. It is at the root of their strength.... Like a Judo-ka that uses and transfers the energy of the attack, to dispatch the opponent.
The best way to hide something is in the open. Many Jews are told that Israel is their "home base", their safe haven from Anti-Semitism, so they should support the Zionist ideal. Whereas, in fact, Zionism is no more than an international criminal racket like the mafia, hiding behind Judaism, and causing enemies to attempt to attack Jews for the sake of the Zionist agression behind and so where possible Zionists will generate more Anti-Semitism. It is not difficult to play shell games and hide conspiracies that are there:
The Jews of Iraq by Naeim Giladi
http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html
What I'm trying to point out is that the Zionist agreements with German Nazis probably facilitated the killing of more Jews than anything else, and they did little to save more than their own Zionist cohorts and those that in their opinion were "useful" to their nationalist cause. They laid the groundwork and facilitated the deeds, then after the fact claimed the righteousness of the Jewish victim on behalf of all Jews. Read the case of Kastner’s collaboration in Hungary;
http://www.lastsuperpower.net/docs/nzc5thekastnercase
Read Norman G. Finkelstein's, the Holocaust industry
It is absolutely essential to "see the wood for the trees" and as I wrote somewhere else on this thread:
Judaism was the forest and the Zionists were the foresters. There are several ways to manage a forest; transplant selected trees, planting seedlings, pruning and training them as they grow. The latter was done by social conditioning, using psychology techniques that are well studied, some might call it “brainwashing”. The clear cutting, where needed, can be sub contracted.
No, not everything is a conspiracy, but some things are, and a good one you would not know just because it is a conspiracy and few can see it as such, other than the conspirators, of course, but like any enterprise very few are privy to the whole picture and most just do their small part and protect thei interests with little concern for the overall effect.
Thanks for your thoughtful responses.
Hmmm, Herbert R.,
Maybe Pakistan has had 1 drone too many. Don't they have nukes too? Maybe they will just decide to throw one Israel's way and then see what the U.S. will do. Pakistan can always claim that terorists did it. Our own government keeps telling us about the terrorists there. With Israel out of the way, their 3 billion a year can help rebuild after affects of all of our bombs in the Middle East!
It's always those unsuspected players that can throw everything off. Maybe China will decide it wants to work with Iran while at the same time calling in all of the I.O.U.s from the U.S. Of course, on the other hand, Turkey did refuse the use of THEIR air space to the Israelis. No wonder U.S. ships are in the Gulf area. Just fly those Israeli aircraft over a different land mass.
I think China actually has 13 creature years and months. Up until now, the 13th, the year of the Spider, has been dangling around and unseen in history, and maybe this is the year for the real web of influence to appear.
While the U.S and Israel become entangled in webs of intrigue of their own making, a very large spider sits nearby waiting to pluck them from their own entangling alliances.
Dear China,
Our economy needs another war, but we don't seem to have the money. Please lend us a couple trillion U.S. so we can get started properly.
Your vassal,
The U.S. of A.
I would like people not to get the wrong impression of Vietnam. I have spent a lot of time there in the last few years. It is a police state and people are afraid to speak about politics but the people are fine. They are very capitalistic and love money. Doesn't sound so great but we like it there very much. They don't care about their war with the Americans or any war for that matter. The ones that are in USA are the rich ones that got out or the people that worked for the Americans during the war and had to leave - - they are very similar to Cuban refugees (gusanos) or Iranian refugees - - they want their property back and the way it was before.
Thats what I saw and also what I was told. The people were warm and welcoming and hold no grudges against Americans from the war. Its a quiet police state though unlike other countries in the region and there is little abuse.
I would say that many of the Viet Namese that fled later were not rich and most have no interest in returning, but love to go back now to visit.
Where are you guys living?