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New Israeli FM Lieberman Rules out 'Concessions' to Palestinians
Israel never ratified 2007 Annapolis Middle East peace talks, new foreign minister says in debut speech
Israel's new foreign minister dismayed the international community today with a rancorous analysis of the peace process and an announcement that the new government favors aggression rather than concessions to the Palestinians.
An ultra-Orthodox Israeli stands in front of an Avigdor Lieberman election poster. (Photograph: Gali Tibbon/AFP/Getty Images) In his first speech since taking office, the rightwinger Avigdor Lieberman dismissed the last round of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, arguing that Israeli concessions made in a bid to secure peace had all been fruitless.
"Those who want peace should prepare for war and be strong," he said. "There is no country that made concessions like Israel. Since 1967 we gave up territory that is three times the size of Israel. We showed willingness. The Oslo process started back in 1993, and to this day I have not seen that we reached peace."
Speaking to what the Associated Press describes as a roomful of "cringing diplomats", the new foreign minister said Israel was not bound by the Annapolis peace talks. These were initiated in November 2007 to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and involved around 40 countries.
"The Israeli government never ratified Annapolis; nor did [the] Knesset," said Lieberman, promising to honour only the US-initiated "road map" of 2002, which has long been in stalemate amid accusations from both sides.
Lieberman's speech is in stark contrast to remarks made by the incoming prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, and the Israeli president, Shimon Peres, who both said the new government would pursue peace on every front.
During a recent visit to the Czech Republic, the Israeli president said the new administration had promised: "We shall continue the negotiations with the Palestinians. We shall negotiate with each of our neighbors ... and see what can be done in terms of peace on the regional level." And a week before taking office, Netanyahu vowed to engage in peace negotiations with the Palestinian Authority.
Their comments came in reaction to growing international concern that the new Israeli government would not be committed to a two-state peace process.
In today's speech, Lieberman was more amiable towards Egypt, which he described as an "important element in the Arab world". This is an improvement on a few weeks ago, when he said the Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak, could "go to hell".
- Posted in
83 Comments so far
Show Allv.purto
I predict 50 comments bashing Avigdor Lieberman in this peace loving site, preferably to the last drop of Jewish blood.
I know, what's up with that? Why are peace loving people so harsh with people like Lieberman? It's hypocritical to advocate peace and yet as soon as a war mongering low life douche bag like Lieberman advocates for the elimination of Palestinians, they get all angry like. He's the best thing for Israel right now, a strong voice for the oppressed Jew. Palestinians have been walking all over Israeli soil for hundreds of years, that's disrespectful and must stop now.
I predict hundreds of comments in support of more unnecessary war in Gaza on the sites you call home.
It's not Jewishness that is the issue here, it's the fact that Lieberman is an open bigot. Stop hiding your thuggery behind the western world's guilt over the Shoah.
Oh so Lieberman is the victim now?
Right. See my comments below.
Hell seems to be where Lieberman is now, and wishes others to join him.
Lieberman is unquestionably a monster and an abomination. Like Bibi Netanyahu, however, he's the Chosen People's Choice!
Well, one can't be too self-righteous about it; Amerikans have "elected" equally monstrous and abominable politicians.
It is one of the enduring ironies of life that sheep typically vote for wolves in wolves' clothing.
· Yr Obd't Servant
PS: v. purto: two down, forty-eight to go!
As a Jew and supporter of Israel, Avidor Lieberman doesn't speak for me and I think it is a tragedy that he is in any position of power.
Most Jews and Israelis want a just peace and support a two-state solution (and I would say the same thing for most Palestinians). Many support an end to all settlement activity in the West Bank and military activity/economic siege in Gaza.
The Right won in the last election. Hopefully, internal (progressive Israelis)and external (the Obama Administration) pressure will limit Lieberman's impact while in office and progress will continue to be made.
For a new progressive Jewish voice check out:
http://www.jstreet.org/
If that is so, then how did these war mongers come into power? It's the same two sidedness of USians saying they want peace but then still voting for our own war mongers. Is Israels voting public as uneducated as our own?
Raffi5769, explain something form me, if you will.
Jeremy Ben-ami the executive director of your Jstreet said on that bastion of journalistic ethics, Fox news, that
the elected leader of Iran was a "madman",
Iran is working on a nuclear bomb(even the US government intelligence agencies don't believe that)and
Iran is a "threat", even though it hasn't invaded anybody in centuries(shall we count the number of American agressions?)
So, if Jstreet is progressive, then progressive has no meaning.
If i may jump in,
I think the "elected" leader of Iran is if not "mad" then unhinged to say the least. Anybody who looks into a camera and says Iran doesn't have homosexuals and that homosexuality is a Western occurrence obviously has a few short circuiting neurons!
As for the bomb issue, I now the US NIE has said that Iran is no longer seeking to create a bomb. This is actually very logical, Iran got caught in the beginning stages of the development and saw that the ends didn't justify the means. I admit my opinion is just conjecture...
Do remember though, the head of the UN nuclear watch group, a man who was definitely no American puppet, said Iran was being deceitful in it's reports.
Israel is convinced Iran is making a bomb so they can "wipe Israel of the face of the earth." Israel is a wee bit paranoid but then again it seems that such an affliction runs rampant in that part of the world. (I know that the quote about wiping Israel away is ambiguous but if you were in Israel you would infer only one thing from such a remark)
While Iran hasn't sent an army across the border is several centuries it does send money across the border to terrorist groups that then go an kill people. Sending money and guns isn't peaceful. When Iran supports Hezbollah and Hamas they are no different than the US supporting the Contras. It may not be war but it certainly isn't peaceful.
Please don't be a single issue vote, While you may not agree with Jstreet on this particular issue to then go and declare that they aren't a progressive organization is a bit overzealous in my opinion. The Progressive movement is a big tent so there are bound to be a few disagreements amongst it's members.
ps. I used quotations on elected leader b/c nearly every election we see most if not all opposition candidates banned from running for office b/c they aren't dedicated enough to Islamic values according to the Guardian Council.
Once again, the distorted misquote that AIPAC loves to repeat. Consider this:
According to numerous different translations, Ahmadinejad never used the word "map," instead his statement was in the context of time and applied to the Zionist regime occupying Jerusalem. Ahmadinejad was expressing his future hope that the Zionist regime in Israel would fall, not that Iran was going to physically annex the country and its population.
To claim Ahmadinejad has issued a rallying cry to ethnically cleanse Israel is akin to saying that Churchill wanted to murder all Germans when he stated his desire to crush the Nazis. This is about the demise of a corrupt occupying power, not the deaths of millions of innocent people. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/260107offthemap.htm
I added the line about the quotes ambiguity for a reason. Also i added that Israel has a history of being overly sensitive and statements like such do nothing but aggravate the fear in Israel society.
It seems YOU are the one distorting statements.
Yes, and abusive spouses also typically have a history of being "overly sensitive", not to say pathologically paranoid.
So naturally the victim should be extra-careful of what he or she says, because he or she knows very well that a rash, careless, or critical statement will only set off the abuser.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Abusive spouses aren't 'overly sensitive' nor pathologically paranoid they are pathological scum. I had early said that i think meter maids are the lowest form of life, strike that-they are the second, abusive spouses are the lowest form of life.
Also, your ad hominem isn't working. It seems you can't make a rebuttal towards my points so you degrade me and change the subject to domestic abuse.
The Pres of Iran making a undoubtedly charged remark indicating that he's looking forward to the day Israel no longer exists is not synonymous with a wife telling her husband she doesn't want to watch a baseball game and he slaps her across the face for talking back.
The UN nuclear watch group has said Iran is acting suspicious. Israel is paranoid. What happens when a suspicious person and a paranoid person get together???
And you keep repeating the same lie about the Pres of Iran's statement....As someone mentioned, you only speak one language.
What are you talking about or better yet what are you on that is causing you to hallucinate?
Ahmadinejad has repeatedly stated that he looks forward to the day Israel no longer exist. To be honest, these aren't really his thoughts but rather they originated from Khamenei.
Although it should be noted that this whole controversy arose b/c the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting reported that Ahmadinejad demanded, during a conference titled "A World Without Zionism" no less, that Israel "must be wiped off the map." Several like translation were listed as well, "cause a place to stop existing," "obliterate totally," or "destroy completely".
Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History translated it as this:
"The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)."
If Iran doesn't like controversy they have nobody to blame but their own state run media!
As a matter of fact i speak 2 and a half languages but you right i don't speak Farsi or Persian.
You still can make a rebuttal...HA
Israel won't define its borders, so it would be hard to "wipe it off the map." Which map? Anyway, even the CIA predicts that Israel is not going to be around for more than 20 more years, because Israel is going to have to stop apartheid and become a country in which Jews, Palestinians, and Christians all have EQUAL rights. No more special "Jewish" state. Just another country where everyone has equal rights, so whether it is still called "Israel" or not, it won't be the Zionist outlaw state it has become.
This is not the same as pushing the Zionists into the sea, which the Zionists like to pretend to fear because they want to be seen as the victims, not the aggressors, as they slaughter the Palestinians and steal their land.
Hows that India/Pakistan border dispute coming along? Oh and China has a few unfinished borders as well...then there are those Greek Islands!
The CIA gave Israel less than one week during '48...
Israel will have to go along with the 2 state or they will have to cease being a democratic nation...they will go with the State of Palestine.
There isn't a single state in the middle east that has equal rights for all so come down on the prosecution of Israel. NOT A SINGLE MID EAST COUNTRY!
v.purto
"This is about the demise of a corrupt occupying power..." As if HAMAS rockets fall on some abstract concept not people with bones and blood. Don't you have shame at long last, Mr. Commentarian? Of course you don't.
But my prediction turned out to be true - more than 50 posts with no mention of Israeli blood so far. You're doing OK, my dear comrades!
-Anybody who looks into a camera and says Iran doesn't have homosexuals and that homosexuality is a Western occurrence obviously has a few short circuiting neurons!
I would suggest that Iran like America is ultra religious, Iran has the mullahs, the US has televangelists.
"Iran was being deceitful in it's reports"
Now why would Iranians be warry of giving the US/israeli airforce every detail of their nuclear power infrastructure? I can't imagine.
-wiping Israel
Two things, one, politicians say things for internal consumption, and israel and America are not exactly popular in the world these days. two, do you know any languages other than English? Anyone who has tried to translate anything more than a very simple sentence can attest to the fact that it is not an exact science. And shall we say the people translating that famous phrase aren't sticklers for accuracy.
-It may not be war but it certainly isn't peaceful.
This is true.
-While you may not agree with Jstreet on this particular issue to then go and declare that they aren't a progressive organization is a bit overzealous in my opinion
My issue is humanity. Do the jstreet quotes I gave sound progressive to you?
-most if not all opposition candidates banned
Hmmm, wasn't Kucinich(along with everyone else who was vaguely progressive) banned from the US debates? What is the difference?
I'm glad that our televangelists can't void laws and determine who can run in elections. But basically you are right. Damn.
-Now why would Iranians be warry of giving the US/israeli airforce every detail of their nuclear power infrastructure? I can't imagine.
Touche.
A comment just below has my reasons why it was bad for the Pres of Iran to make such a remark. It's not illegal or anything like that but it surely isn't anything a smart person would say. Also thing of the outcry if Israel had made such a remark of about Palestine. The Foreign Minister has said he isn't bound to the Annapolis accords and it's making people blow their heads. Imagine if the leader of Israel said something to the effect that he wish's Palestine would just go away...
By the way I've scene that the new Hamas flag has a mushroom cloud on it....that is going to make Israel sleep better.
I always thought Jstreet was a progressive movement but to each their own. I don't mean to dictate to you which NGO you much support.
Yeah, banning Kucinich was a bad call. If i recall it was made by the networks which is even more frightening.
"I would suggest that Iran like America is ultra religious, Iran has the mullahs, the US has televangelists."
But however religious Bush was, he was not as whacked out crazy insane evil as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Also, ultra religious christians tend not to wage proxy wars.
"Now why would Iranians be warry of giving the US/israeli airforce every detail of their nuclear power infrastructure? I can't imagine."
Because it was a "peaceful" program. No, they lied to build bombs, bombs in the hands of irrational nihilists.
"Two things, one, politicians say things for internal consumption, and israel and America are not exactly popular in the world these days. "
So they get to say any evil antisemitic thing they want because they're saying it to their own? Stop apologizing for evil while attacking Israel for self-defense.
"two, do you know any languages other than English? Anyone who has tried to translate anything more than a very simple sentence can attest to the fact that it is not an exact science. And shall we say the people translating that famous phrase aren't sticklers for accuracy."
Ahmadinejad wants no more Israel, with Jews as dhimmis or dead. He funds terrorist attacks on Israel. He denies the holocaust. He's evil. Stop defending him with pansy-ass "oh, translating is so hard" BS.
And they blame the Palestinians for not wanting peace. In the world of Lieberman, war means peace. Up is down. And left is right.
Herman Göring used to openly say, "If the Jews cannot be good Germans, then they will have to leave". This was before Nazis came to power, when the world wasn't paying enough attention to them. What will be our excuse for ignoring this monster who wants his "Fascistan" to expel Palestinians?
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n03/lee_01_.html
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/7256
v.purto
I am a fan of neither Bibi nor Avigdor. But with the people who sent their kids to blow up other kids they get what they asked for. Do not shed your crocodile tears for them. Abstract "human rights" and the rest of liberal adgenda are the spent force. Besides, who is talking, people punching their keyboards in the safety of Fortess Amerika?
Israel on their own, facing united front Christers and Muslims who created this conflict in the first place. True, American Administrations pretend to be friends f Israel. Alas, with such friend Israel does not enemies.
What is strange however, I am still to read on this site that the whole conflict in the Middle East was created by rivalry between Anglo-American Empire and USSR-RF according to age old recepy Divide et Impera. It is that simple! Just apply Marxist analysis to this sorry situation, you born again Marxists.
Granted Israel of Bibi has nothing in common with Zionist dream to build Socialist State: Ben-Gurion had chosen the wrong side in the battle between Labor and Mammon. He had no choice at the time with Stalin at helm in USSR.
Alas, preconceptions are not subject to rectification by more information: my reader are deaf at this junction.
P.S.
"What will be our excuse for ignoring this monster who wants his "Fascistan" to expel Palestinians?"
I think that "Fascistan" comment will go for 10 normal.
With that in mind we already have 15 bashes, Mr. Obedient Servant.
The 1967 war was started by Israel, with the expressed purposed of seizing land. Don't take my word for it, read the words of Israel's leadership at that time:
http://www.wrmea.com/jews_for_justice/1967war.html
Just another loudmouthed Zionist with poor grammar.
v.purto
"Just another loudmouthed Zionist with poor grammar."
With all your good English grammar you still stand up and sing your bloody anthem along with GWB and deny other people to have their time on soap box. You also call it democracy, bastard.
You really need to wash your mouth out fella.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
"The arc of history is long", Martin Luther King said, "but eventually it bends toward justice." If that's true, and it very often is, then what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians will eventually blow up in their faces. A paskudnyak like Lieberman is no better for the Israelis than George Wanker Bush and Cheesedick Cheney were for us.
v.purto
"A paskudnyak like Lieberman is no better for the Israelis than George Wanker Bush and Cheesedick Cheney were for us." And paskudnik he is. However, Chaver Shiblikov, you're right and wrong. Right by comparing their behavior, wrong by comparing their motifs and emotions.
I would like to ask the next lady from Tel-Aviv: will your decision to save your children from total annihilation be based on abstract liberal humanistic principles without regard to historical circumstances and very existence of 3000 years old culture? Or you will worry about opinion of Jews outside of Israel?
I am not fan, I repeat, of current Israeli Government, and even of current Israeli generation affected to much by corrupting influence of gimme Capitalism.
I challenge all posters on this CD site to consider following situation: you are aganst the lynching mob and fighting for your life. Then cast stone to Israel if you ready to prove your right to life based on high moral principals rather to use all you have to keep you alife.
And this is the problem with all of you, disciples of Abstract School of Thinking who base your judgements on logical reasoning. Have you ever heard about Godel theorem?
Israel most probably is the worst nation on the face of this planet. Except from all others.
They won't listen, but they will froth at the mouth. The real world scares them so they yell at it.
v.purto
You're dumn right TheMiddleRoad, they froth at the very word Zionism w/o ever reading a word about it. But do I have right and obligation to call bastards by their name? Probably not. I just lost my nerve this time around.
It has been blowing up in the face of Palestinians since May 15, 1948. Lieberman wants to use nukes on Gaza. What if he got his own medicine? Would he be happy to take it as well as dish it?
I think that it is time US stepped on to the side of Iran. The Iranians are far more sophisticated and take a much more responsible posture in the region and should be accorded the degree of respect that they have earned.
The Israeli's live at the level of children demanding candy from sugar daddy US or they will hold their breath until they burst. An infantile group of whiners with a wide sadistic streak. They are an embarrassment to Jews the world over.
michael jordan
http://sites.google.com/site/apolloguide/
Just so you know, Dr. Martin Luther King was a strong supporter of the creation of Israel.
I'm quite sure that his support was founded on sympathy for Jews as the victims of genocide, and with no expectation that Israel would become a perpetrator of genocide.
One cannot presume that his support for Israel would have persisted undiminished through the past four decades, had Dr. King lived through them.
· Yr Obd't Servant
I would not even try to presume what Dr. King would think about today's climate. I should have written more, my remark was intended for the partition debate. Although i do wondering if he was an advocate of the two state solution or of a single nation? He was clear with his advocacy of the State of Israel but no finer details were made. Of course it really doesn't matter what his personal beliefs were, he was a great man but he was just a man and not every opinion of his should be revered.
More Zionist rubbish - who are they trying to kid? Have a look at :
Israel's apologists and the Martin Luther King Jr. hoax
Fadi Kiblawi & Will Youmans, The Electronic Intifada, 19 January 2004
You will find that none of these so-called academics can even reference a single bona fide citation of this allegation -seemingly they just made it up.
Clutching at straws - clutching at straws
Since these people seem to be "History" experts perhaps they might tell us all about the Sonder Commando or is that too close to home?
As James Thurber famously wrote in the Owl who was God - "You can fool too many of the people too much of the time"
But these people don't fool me!
It is time to stop pretending that there will be a two-state solution. Israel has always used the "peace" process as cover to steal more Palestinian land and resources. There will be one state, but first there will be even more unimaginable horror and suffering as Israel tries to maintain their apartheid system, and the world continues to stand by and watch the slaughter of Palestinians. Jews around the world will suffer from their identification with the fascist state of Israel.
The following is from http://jewishpeacenews.blogspot.com/ :
Caryl Churchill, a renowned British playwright and feminist, wrote a short play called: Seven Jewish Children--A Play for Gaza. It premiered in London in February and in New York on March 16th, in an event marking the anniversary of Rachel Corrie's death. It was produced at the New York Theatre Workshop, which was the center of a controversy three years ago when it backed off from its decision to produce the play "My Name is Rachel Corrie."
The entire text of the play has been printed by the Guardian newspaper. Churchill is giving away free rights to produce the show as long as a collection is made for medical relief in Gaza.
For more context and analysis of the play, Tony Kushner and Alissa Solomon, who also presided over one of the readings and subsequent discussions in New York, have a piece well worth the read in the Nation here:http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090413/kushner_solomon/3
But if you only have a few minutes, just read the play itself.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2009/feb/26/caryl-churchill-
seven-jewish-
children-play-gaza
(I have had to break up the link in this odd way because commondreams.org won't allow long links like this.)
I've read it three times (it only takes about five minutes), and each time it has brought me to tears. As someone living in Tel Aviv, raising two daughters, struggling with when and how and what to tell them--I found it devastating and true.
--Rebecca Vilkomerson
v.purto
"It is time to stop pretending that there will be a two-state solution."
Agree. Stop predending... Then the rest of post becomes senseless illustration that carry no new information whatsoever.
It's time to end all support for Israel and to make clear to them that if they attack Iran they do so without American support of any kind.
Avigdor Lieberman was part of an organization that was so violently anti-Palestinian that it was labeled a terrorist group by the US State Dept:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061172.html
http://www.cfr.org/publication/9178
When a group of Israelis are so virulently anti-Palestinian that they are labeled "terrorist" by the US government... you know they must be nuts.
I think just about every player in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict has been involved with a terrorist group at some point or another-Arafat got a Noble Peace Prize not long after he stopped hijacking airplanes.
The US doesn't label groups as terrorist b/c they are anti whatever but rather b/c certain groups go beyond just hate speech and actually commit physical acts against people.
There are terrorist groups on both sides of the conflict.
What Lieberman is doing is setting a trap for the Palestinians. He is saying things that he knows will upset an already fragile peace process to trick Hamas into increasing their attacks so Israel can claim selfdefence when they attack Palestine.
"Since 1967 we gave up territory that is three times the size of Israel." I think he meant to say since 1967 they took territory three times the size of Palestine.
v.purto
Be real MR. Can you name any country on Earth, which territory was not taken from other people? Or you think that occupants since 680 C.E. are more priveleged than occupants since 1947 C.E.? Be serious, your argument does not hold water.
This the biggest problem for Israelis, they try to argue too much. Building the life of one's nation is the greatest handicap, which Avigdor Leiberman happily lacks. Country he was born in will live in infamy for Kishenev Pogrom, which introduced this word into all dictionary of the world. He has thick blood in his veins, not syrop.
In his country they have a popular saying: when two dogs fight - the third must stay away for they fight for life. You're the third dog, barking from safety of your den, Mr. MR
Hey V.purto,
I think your right, America is the third dog and we should stay away. The first step in that direction should be to cut of ALL US aid to Israel.
US aid is the only thing keeping Israel tethered. It would leave her with time running out and the wolves closing in. You ask for many, many, many dead muslims. Then again, you don't care about that. You only care about beating the Jews.
Just like v. purto does here with his commentary.