Spanish Judge Accuses Six Top Bush Officials of Torture
Legal moves may force Obama's government into starting a new inquiry into abuses at Guantánamo Bay and Abu Ghraib
MADRID - Criminal proceedings have begun in Spain against six senior officials in the Bush administration for the use of torture against detainees in Guantánamo Bay. Baltasar Garzón, the counter-terrorism judge whose prosecution of General Augusto Pinochet led to his arrest in Britain in 1998, has referred the case to the chief prosecutor before deciding whether to proceed.
The case is bound to threaten Spain's relations with the new administration in Washington, but Gonzalo Boyé, one of the four lawyers who wrote the lawsuit, said the prosecutor would have little choice under Spanish law but to approve the prosecution.
"The only route of escape the prosecutor might have is to ask whether there is ongoing process in the US against these people," Boyé told the Observer. "This case will go ahead. It will be against the law not to go ahead."
The officials named in the case include the most senior legal minds in the Bush administration. They are: Alberto Gonzales, a former White House counsel and attorney general; David Addington, former vice-president Dick Cheney's chief of staff; Douglas Feith, who was under-secretary of defence; William Haynes, formerly the Pentagon's general counsel; and John Yoo and Jay Bybee, who were both senior justice department legal advisers.
Court documents say that, without their legal advice in a series of internal administration memos, "it would have been impossible to structure a legal framework that supported what happened [in Guantánamo]".
Boyé predicted that Garzón would issue subpoenas in the next two weeks, summoning the six former officials to present evidence: "If I were them, I would search for a good lawyer."
If Garzón decided to go further and issued arrest warrants against the six, it would mean they would risk detention and extradition if they travelled outside the US. It would also present President Barack Obama with a serious dilemma. He would have either to open proceedings against the accused or tackle an extradition request from Spain.
Obama administration officials have confirmed that they believe torture was committed by American interrogators. The president has not ruled out a criminal inquiry, but has signalled he is reluctant to do so for political reasons.
"Obviously we're going to be looking at past practices, and I don't believe that anybody is above the law," Obama said in January. "But my orientation's going to be to move forward."
Philippe Sands, whose book Torture Team first made the case against the Bush lawyers and which Boyé said was instrumental in formulating the Spanish case, said yesterday: "What this does is force the Obama administration to come to terms with the fact that torture has happened and to decide, sooner rather than later, whether it is going to criminally investigate. If it decides not to investigate, then inevitably the Garzón investigation, and no doubt many others, will be given the green light."
Germany's federal prosecutor was asked in November 2006 to pursue a case against Donald Rumsfeld, the former defence secretary, Gonzales and other officials for abuses committed in Guantánamo Bay and Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. But the prosecutor declined on the grounds that the issue should be investigated in the US.
Legal observers say the Spanish lawsuit has a better chance of ending in charges. The high court, on which Garzón sits, has more leeway than the German prosecutor to seek "universal jurisdiction".
The lawsuit also points to a direct link with Spain, as six Spaniards were held at Guantánamo and are argued to have suffered directly from the Bush administration's departure from international law. Unlike the German lawsuit, the Spanish case is aimed at second-tier figures, advisers to Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, with the aim of being less politically explosive.
The lawsuit claimed the six former aides "participated actively and decisively in the creation, approval and execution of a judicial framework that allowed for the deprivation of fundamental rights of a large number of prisoners, the implementation of new interrogation techniques including torture, the legal cover for the treatment of those prisoners, the protection of the people who participated in illegal tortures and, above all, the establishment of impunity for all the government workers, military personnel, doctors and others who participated in the detention centre at Guantánamo".
"All the accused are members of what they themselves called the 'war council'," court documents allege. "This group met almost weekly either in Gonzales's or Haynes's offices."
In a now notorious legal opinion signed in August 2002, Yoo and Bybee argued that torture occurred only when pain was inflicted "equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death".
Another key document cited in the Spanish case is a November 2002 "action memo" written by Haynes, in which he recommends that Rumsfeld give "blanket approval" to 15 forms of aggressive interrogation, including stress positions, isolation, hooding, 20-hour interrogations and nudity. Rumsfeld approved the document.
The 1984 UN Convention against Torture, signed and ratified by the US, requires states to investigate allegations of torture committed on their territory or by their nationals, or extradite them to stand trial elsewhere.
Last week, Britain's attorney general, Lady Scotland, launched a criminal investigation into MI5 complicity in the torture of Binyam Mohamed, a British resident held in Guantánamo.
The Obama administration has so far avoided taking similar steps. But the possibility of US prosecutions was brought closer by a report by the Senate armed services committee at the end of last year, which found: "The abuse of detainees in US custody cannot simply be attributed to the actions of 'a few bad apples' acting on their own. The fact is that senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality, and authorised their use against detainees."
None of the six former officials could be reached for comment yesterday. Meanwhile, Vijay Padmanabhan, a former state department lawyer, said the creation of the Guantánamo Bay detention camp was "one of the worst over-reactions of the Bush administration".
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86 Comments so far
Show All¡No Pasarán!
Joe
Spain is my new favorite country. Lets hope that the US will bring charges against Bush, Chaney, Rummy, and Gonzo - the four housemen of the apocalypse.
I wish that the Demo congress would get off their hands and do something.
What is done in Spain is irrelevant to American citizens in America.
Perhaps instead of shotgunning social and political policies it might be more appropriate to address our real problems first.
Secondly, why hasn't this question been addressed by this administration? Even if to say no, why not at least addressed.
What would happen if Gonzalez were to travel in Spain or the EU? Also, I don't understand the comment on shotgunning.
Joe
"What would happen if Gonzalez were to travel in Spain or the EU?"
If Gonzales were convicted in Spain (EU) and he was stupid enough to go there, he would be open to arrest. But it means nothing in our country. Since I know Gonzales a bit, I can assure you he is probably stupid enough to go there.
Shotgunning is our way of saying throw policies and proposals in volume against the wall and see what sticks. Example...moving the Census under the White House.
Rendition Teams start your engines.
Viva Espana!
Maybe a condition of Alberto's parole could be that he live in a ghetto in Detroit and teach Spanish to those kids from whom he helped steal funds for education.
That would not be fair to the kids. He is a twerp.
Joe
His Spanish isn't that good either.
Thank God for Spainish law. What a democracy! We go from having two oil-men at the top to two constitutional lawyers and it doesn't make a difference on justice. Wow!
Mr. President, please take to heart
these words of Martin Luther King:
"He who passively accepts evil
is as much involved in it
as he who helps to perpetrate it.
"He who accepts evil
without protesting against it
is really cooperating with it."
In your heart, you know he's right.
Someone has to do the honorable thing and go after these torturers. It is to the eternal shame of the United States that Obama has waffled on this issue, and so far refuses to uphold the law of the land. He is reported to be a Constitutional expert. If this is the case, and he continues to refuse to uphold and defend the Constitution against such outrages, he is one of them. You cannot have it both ways when involving torture, murder and crimes against humanity. You either defend the law, or support it being broken. The United States is already in breech of it's legal commitments to the Geneva Conventions against torture, which require all signatories to defend the articles through indictments and trials. Obama's abject refusal to hold any of the known torturers to the rule of law only casts a shadow over his Presidency. The CIA has openly admitted waterboarding...which is a war crime punishable in the past by death.
This country I have lived in all my life dishonors all those who have died in all the honorable wars fought to preserve this country and the laws we live by, by looking the other way, especially when a President is guilty of such heinous crimes. Shame on the Obama administration for protecting these Nazi's from the rule of law.
Try 'Em & Fry 'Em
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
Things moving forward. Universal jurisdiction or Universality Principle. Good, Garzon and Spain. Peace and Justice.
BTW, I notice the remaining Obama cheerleader(s) haven't dropped by to rage against Spain putting Obama on the spot like this-- I guess they're desperately waiting for talking points to justify Obama's rejection of Spain's unilateral attempt to respect the rule of law and achieve social justice.
See, that's the difference between the Old World and the New World-- the New World has evolved to the point where it's understood that WHAT WORKS is what "really" matters, and one need not-- nay, DARE not-- go beyond offering pious Lip Service to the rule of law.
While the pragmatists recognize the necessity of proclaiming eternal devotion to the rule of law, they know that it's impractical by definition: expensive, politically risky, inefficient, unpredictable (thus, uncontrollable). Only a fool would hamstring himself by actually opening such a Pandora's Box.
¡Viva España!
· Yr Obd't Servant
Obedient Servant, Hello!
I see good, not JUST bad & vile in Obama. But being grateful his election stopped 4-front war, bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran McInsane, being grateful his election ousted the most corrupt horrific regime in US history, does not mean I am not absolutely stoked about Spain's right on move for justice.
It is not mutually exclusive to see good in Obama as well as bad, right & wrong. To me this just contrasts so starkly w/ the gop in whom I saw zero right and endless horrors.
Yeah Spain. I thank BO for all he has done right, now let's get out of Afghanistan, completely out of Iraq.
Respectfully, joe.
All true, which is why Obama may be waiting for his hand to be forced. The president will never allow a foreign country to bring American citizens to justice. I can't imagine anything more humiliating for the US.
He will do nothing for the reasons you stated UNLESS he has no other choice. I believe he would love to have his hand forced. No worries about the Republican crowd accusing him of using his office for partisan politics.
Please Spain, liberate the USA. You will be greeted with roses and chocolates by us ordinary citizens. Our government is not a lawful government. Surely we are a threat to the rule of law everywhere on the planet.
Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition
Vive la Inquisición!!
I sure didn't. Neither did Pinochet. Thanks for the laugh.
Joe
I don't want to spoil the party but didn't they miss a couple of more prominent names?
The case is bound to threaten Spain's relations with the new administration in Washington . . .
Obama is going to get all worked up about these war criminals? He's going to huff 'n puff and tell Spain where to head in? He's going to call in the Spanish ambassador and wave a fist in his face? I imagine he will. A commenter below called Obama a chump. That was polite.
I think maybe Spain is not the only country that knows the difference between legal and illegal.
Europe, even excepting the UK, has a lot of weight to throw around, and the great USA who never needed anybody is losing more and more prestige as this economic mess it created becomes wider and deeper.
ratdog
You will notice that this article came out of the uk. The usa press is in bed with the ruling class and will do nothing to bite the hand that feeds them. The brilliant thing about the ruling class in Amerika is how they can keep the people occupied with the small stuff and rape them with out the average joe even caring. We hope that this story will come out but dought it. It does seem that obama does have a problem. I think that he is getting of very easy with his new war and the even newer one they are preparing the people for, the take over of Mexico. By the way our local paper had a big picture a new Kentucky fried chicken store in Iraq so i guess our work is done over there.
The local Parade magazine came out today with a story on us prisons. Wondering what is wrong with a country that has one in thirty five citizens in the prison system. Problem is the usa has not accountability for the major criminals and then expects the little people to toe the line. No body has any respect for the law that allows the major war criminals to walk away with a pension and puts the regular guy away for years for smoking pot.
I hope that the Spanish story will see the light of day, If not it is truly time to take the Obama sticker off the bus!!!
Here is a story from the Seattle times, based on a story from the NY Times:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008942565_spain29.html
The "Impeachment" and various bogus investigations of Bill Clinton may have been innoculations designed to make sure no other investigations of high officials ever occur again. Notice the demise of the Special Prosecuter.
The Monica and Whitewater, vince foster, etc stories were on the front pages every day in every venue. Does Obama want to give up all of his progressive projects to get caught in that kind of meltdown?
WHat do you want to bet his lawyers talked to Spain to get this going, to take the element of choice out of it?
Bush took us out of the World Court jurisdiction. Obama should rescind that decision...
I agree... I believe that Obama is playing this one smartly...
By choosing to allow the private courts and foreign judges to get the ball rolling...
It takes pressure off of clogging and bogging down the justice dept with a civil servant war...
He can play the role of cooperating with an investigation instead of being the prosecuting team...
Which would have been spun as a witch hunt by the hate wing media...
I think Obama is smart enough to leave this hornets nest alone for now...
However, I am confused about Holder's continuation of state's secrets laws & extraordinary rendition...
Perhaps that is another den of vipers & spook pet projects that would take him out before be had the chance to act...
If he championed the ending of the CIA's global gun/drug/human trafficking networks of banksters, gangsters & private subcontractors...
I believe that there are some things out of his power right now due to the inertia of what has come before...
However, evolution accelerates during times of cataclisms and catastrophes on the physiological, social, intellectual, and spiritual planes...
So, in essence, Obama is not doing the right thing out of fear of reprisal?
Not in essence... more a path of least resistance...
More like, it will happen anyway, so he doesn't have to be the one to initiate it...
Let someone else who has the experience and reputation of prosecuting war criminals be the champion for this... then Obama can draft behind the international call for justice, cooperating with investigations by providing subpoenaed witnesses and documents... without having to appear that he is betraying his Bankster and Globalist handlers who groomed him for the POTUS...
One can hope...
One can hope, but one can do as well....
"The brilliant thing about the ruling class in Amerika is how they can keep the people occupied with the small stuff and rape them with out the average joe even caring."
So completely true, Erclone -- keep the Joes busy with Britney Spears, Angelina, politicos that are corrupt or write dirty emails to their volunteer staffers, Palin's daughter or Palin herself for that matter....
Actually, at times, the ruling elite even get the Joes to applaud their own rape or, as we now know from the bank bailouts, to pay for it.
The elite that rules this country is the most insidious that has ever walked the surface of this planet (deep politics).
That is one of the most important facts about this country, and it is very difficult to see and understand for outside observers.
This "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" shit may be wearing thin. I have actually heard single payer health plan mentioned a few times recently. Until a week ago the press acted as if nobody had even thought of such a system.
Keep your eye on the grand old flag (and football and game shows and the private lives of the stars) never mind that everything it ever stood for has been tramped into the mud to keep us safe from THEM OVER THERE with whom we are waging an illegal war.
Once people see how the trick works it no longer fools anybody.
I think maybe even a few joe-the-plummers heard the constitution referred to as "Just a Goddamn piece of paper."
Kudos to Baltasar Garzon (Pinochet's tormentor) for bringing these charges forward. What is particularly clever about them is that it targets the second-tier political appointees who made the torture happen, for if there are no cronies willing to do the dirty legal legwork, then torture merely remains a fuzzy fantasy of the douche bags at the top.
What would be good is if the indicted roll on their bosses.
NateW, "What would be good is if the indicted roll on their bosses."
That would bring a whole new poetic justice to their mantra "Let's roll".
Like most members of the Democratic Party, Obama is a liar. He promised justice, while campaigning, strode about the dais saying no one is above the law. Within days, and with no pressure, he switched to his 'moving forward' routine like the good little boy president he promised his Israeli sponsors. This country is toast and there is no hope to save it from the crap heap.
thong-girl
Well, most people are caught up in the artificial "Democrat vs. Republican" dichotomy, which is constantly stirred by MSM talk shows and blowhards like Rush Limbaugh, that they actually think Obama will run things differently than Bush. Obama is THANKFUL to Bush for opening the gates to executive power, and for enhancing the tools that give him, effectively, a police state in which to govern (unlimited eavesdropping, diminished constitutional rights, etc.). Israel is part and parcel of this facade, and Obama does not have the political capital to challenge Israel and the supporters of their rightist policies.
Come on now. You sound angry. You expect a liar (a.k.a. politician) to tell the truth?
The rest of the world does not want the USA to go on the scrap heap. We would take them with us. They want the US restored to some semblance of decency, even if they have to help us along a bit.
And the place where we are most vulnerable to foreign pressure is our disregard for the rule of law.
Nearly 3% of our population in jail for smoking a joint while the traitors who shredded the constitution apparently practicing "law" as usual?
If the rest of the world lets us get away with this they deserve what they get.
While I would love to live to see a decent and humane USA, I doubt it would be possible to live that long. It hasn't happened in the last 233 years, and I doubt it will magically appear in the next 50.
My second choice would be to see the USA on the scrapheap of history, even if it drags down the rest of us. This process is already happening by meanso f the USA's own actions, and though it is causing personal hardship, it is definately worth it. The world will be better off without another torturing, lawbreaking, hypocritical world power.
bin Laden is smart...him and his associates destroyed the Soviet empire in Afganistan, and has set the trap to for the USA to destroy itself there too. Good riddance. Hopefully the NEXT superpower will have the brains not to detroy itself and the planet, because Americans sure dont.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
good point.
Thank you Spain! It is refreshing to see some adherence to the rule of law - the norm in Europe is to maintain an official hypocrisy (i.e. "torture is illegal and will be punished but only if you're an African despot"). Not to diss Europe, I envy European citizens as they appear to actually make government work FOR them to some degree.
In contrast the US government appears to be nothing less than a huge organized crime cartel that sees it's citizens as raw material (or whores) which it pimps to the "johns" (large corporations) for a fee (campaign contributions). A super-pimp - 300 million hos! You can mistreat the hos too - yippee! For a small fee you can poison them with mercury, sell them beef laden with mad cow disease (recently the US govt ruled that a small boutique meat packing company was NOT allowed to test every cow - the reason? It would make the rest of the packing companies look bad). You can sell them drugs that create more problems through side effects than they solve .. you can market said drugs directly to the hypochondriacs! You can dump nano-particles by the billions into the environment - the effect? Nobody knows, and nobody is stopping to figure it out. You can release thousands of chemicals freely, without regulation, until the water supplies are full of tranquillizers and the fish are changing sex. And .. you can pick their pockets on occasion and give all the loot to the super-wealthy.
What a perfect setup for the "family".
Nothing personal. It's business.
This could be good news, and if maybe one of these criminal officials were to stop over in Spain on the way to some other destination, that might be really interesting.
AD
I may be wrong but I believe that under European law and the Constitution of the EU any member state must arrest said persons for extradition to Spain if they land on EU territory.
The Spanish Court can issue a European Arrest warrant.
Yeah, but after the brits arrested Pinochet they managed to finagle a way to avoid shipping his butt off to Madrid.
(He and Thatcher were so close they squeaked.)
(He and Thatcher were so close they squeaked.)
_______________________________________________
Thanks a lot, patgarrett!
I'll be back after I finish soaking my brain in bleach.
· Yr Obd't Servant
They had a threeway going with RayGun, too.
Try lemon juice--bleach is very toxic stuff.
I hope the Spanish High Court hangs these bastards from the highest yard-arm in the land. Apparently, the Spanish High Court is doing more to sanatize the reputation of the United States than any private citizen or elected official. Thank God for the Spanish High Court-the victims of all these torture lovin' sickos will finally (I hope) get their day in court! This is not about politics-this is about "justice."
"Rule of Law" or "Rule of Power"?
Let's see: The Brits are angry that their politicians knew of the torture and did nothing to stop it, The Spaniards dicovered that their government had allowed"Rendition Flights" to land at Moron Air Base near Seville, The Canadians have a law against allowing entrance to anyone involved with the torture of human beings, Australians did not allow a torture victim to speak about his torture.
Yet,not one Criminal responsible for a system of: bribing people $5000 to turn in anyone they thought was a terrorist, kidnapping people, removing people from countries without an extradition hearing, inhumanely transporting human beings, declaring people enemy combatants without proof, torturing prisoners in order to "brainwash" them, extracting illegal confessions, destroying evidence of illegal torture, perjury before the United States Congresses, etc.has been brought to justice.
My God, President Barack Obama has "No Power".....As a Constitutional Lawyer and a man who swore to abide by and defend the U.S. Constitution, his obligation would be to call for immediate "Indepenent Investigations" of: The attacks of 9/11, Fabricated and falsified documents used to justify the Invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, use of cluster bombs, use of uranium depleted weapons, use of phosphorous loaded bombs, destruction of evidence in many cases of wrongdoing, illegal spying and data mining, and the list goes on.
President Obama's Power seems to eminate from all the Council on Foreign Relations Members he appointed to key advisory positions and that is one of the groups that has supported "The Carter Doctrine" and "The Project For A New American Century"
No, "The Rule of Law" is meaningless to "The Men Of Power".
It always has been. We are the schmucks who let them run wild for the last thirty years.
Sioux Rose
HERBERT: Solid points. You are one immune to the "koolaid" taken in by so many.
Glad to see Addington on the docket. I hope this case proceeds and all are found guilty. It will be hard for the world court to ignore.
The Jaded Prole
"This case will go ahead. It will be against the law not to go ahead."
We hear such statements from time to time and they have a significant impact on people by somehow expressing the conviction most people have for the rule of law to prevail over "might makes right" and "rule by the sword". But we have to address the inevitable question: Is Spain playing politics too? That is, trying to use the crisis to its zero-sum advantage? It's not that we're overly suspicious. Rather we want to boost the legitimacy of these judicial initiatives. The elitevil running the USA past eight years consciously targeted the rule of international law for complete destruction. So USans have a civic obligation to look into it, to aid the recovery of the rule of law that serve the public interests.
At the next round of peace and justice demonstrations we need to get the message out and chant stuff like "Obama join the World Court!.... Obama join the world!
The trick is to do it even if you think he won't listen.
And we should not have just a "peace demonstration".... there needs to be a peace and Justice solution.
In fact if the folks in London do it, Obama might catch it.
Apple/MAC/wants/to/charge/me/$1200/to/fix/my/space/bar/so/bear/with/me...
Like/H/Kissenger/these/abbettors/and/ enablers/may/find/their/ability/to/travel/ abroad/restricted/for/the/rest/of/their/ lives./It's/too/bad/the/Spanish/courts/
can't/try/them/in/absentia.In/the/future/perhaps/even/Bush/Cheney/
Rumsfeld/etc./will/be/indicted/.For/now the/Spanish/government/is/doing/the/ Obama/administration/a/favor/by/the/ establishment/of/this/precedent./
Next/ step/is/for/Senator/Leahy/to/get/his/ hearings/going/on/the/legislation/to
/set up/a/Truth/Commission./Let/the/Congress/get/the/ball/rolling/on/this./Barak
has/economic/recovery/global/warming/and/education/to/deal/with/at/present./He/
can't/do/everything/at/once.
see http://www.ifixit.com/
I say give these guys immunity as long as they indict Bush, Cheney , Rove and Condi lies alot. Until they are brought to justice America will remain a crime family under Obama.
Don't forget Colin Powell.
It's a public humiliation that the hand of justice must reach from Spain across the Atlantic.
It is a measure of just how very corrupted Americans have become. These colors do not run because they can't stand up.
This puts the US on a par with Chile, whose abuses we fostered. It sure would be nice to clear up the abuses of the last 50 years.
Unfortunately, it's a bit late.
An ounce of prevention is worth, what...a pound of cure.
Our species is incurable.
Barack Obama..The Audacity of Protecting War Criminals
you're either with them or against them, Barak
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Vive Espania!
About freakin time somebody did something about these fascist criminals.
Hopefully now Canada will find the balls to keep these and other fucking war criminals out of my country.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
If in court, precedent weighs in on determinations, and in the Supreme Court one is dealing ultimately with social balance, then extremism in the financial sphere, in the political sphere has been a strategy for gaming the judicial system. It is not just those seated on the bench - though not inconsequential.
Tao te Ching ch.18
"When Tao is cast aside
Duty and humanity abide.
When prudence and wit appear,
Great hypocrites are here.
When the six relations have no point,
Filial piety and paternal love are taught.
When the countryside is out of joint,
Loyalty and allegiance are man's lot."
I guess it is up to a nation that truly believes in law and justice to do what President Obama refuses to do. Shame on you Barack!
That's just it, this President doesn't get it, this is out of his hands and instead he is turning it into a political issue, and it is not! This is the same BS that was pulled with tricky dick, ohhhh, poor us, the country can't take it, aahhhhh!, So, here we are facing the same garbage again decades later because of it, only much worse this time! Time to put this story to rest once and for all, screw the neocons and republicans that cry foul, they stood by and watched it happen, so they have no say in this matter now.
Obama, you keep saying no one is above the law, but apparently that is nothing more than empty rhetoric?
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King (1929 - 1968)
INVESTIGATE, INDICT, PROSECUTE, IMPRISON
"The ancient memories are held by the past, addled by the present, constrained by a malleable future and explained away into confusion." - Roberto Yarzagaray
"ohhhh, poor us, the country can't take it, aahhhhh!"
hey - trials cost money and we just can't afford any justice right now.
sorry folks, MOVE ON, nothing to see here.
Bravo. Viva Espana. Ole.
Joe
Yo, ditto! far fuckin' out man, way to go Spain
I think I will go there for a holiday next winter.
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
If only it comes true. If only it happens. Best news I have seen lately.
No apologies from me obama but you are guilty of dragging your feet and now a foreign country is going ahead with the right thing. It may turn out that these clowns will remain free here in the U.S. because if they left for a visit or whatever, then hopefully there would be enough people with the ability to grab them and take them to justice, and anywhere just so justice is served. I am ashamed to know that a foreign country has to do what your administration should have already done. And I am very ashamed of the corporate america that has to function as a criminal to maintain its empire or what is left of it.
Of course, obama will be forced to declare Spain a terrorist nation and attack them but I haven't seen much in the new administration's efforts to get out of the illegal wars that we are in just for the sake of the military/industrial/congressional complex.
May the Bush administration be subjected to the Spanish Inquisition!
8 ball in the side pocket....... nice shot.
They are starting with some easy too prove names. Good. They'll get to the others. Meanwhile watch to see which of our sick news media people start ridiculing the Spanish. Maybe congress will ban gazpacho soup.
Go Spain!
"Maybe congress will ban gazpacho soup." You mean Freedom Soup, don't you?
-----------------------------------------
What Is Marxism? - a short primer on a subject the working class needs to know.
http://www.marxist.com/Theory/what_is_marxism.html
You know, after seeing your comment(the msm is as big a mess as anything, believe it or not) I had to see what msnbc had on this and they actually have it on the main page of their site which is impressive as I think of msnbc as part of the msm mess where there is usually no news, disinformation or fluff&BS(the college basketball playoffs are very well covered).
But go to cnn, hell no! I might get sick or I might see woffie blitzer and then I would puke on my computer. I don't have tv.
But you're so right and even though there is reporting of this at msnbc's website, I can imagine the reporting rhetoric will soon turn very toxic towards Spain in a conservative media effort to save their national treasures. And again, shame on obama for sitting on his thumbs along with congress and doing NOTHING. Apparently obama did not realize or missed the boat after being elected, to not pursue investigation and presecution of the criminal regeime of w & dick which for me was a major priority of anyone being elected.
Obama will do everything in his power to prevent prosecutions or even investigations into Bush admin crimes.
I think so also. It's somehow like he feels that he is protecting the 'new' sanctity of the corporate/izraeli presidency.
There is also another thing I give thought to that is factor in the digression of our electorate, all those skeletons in their closets. It is one thing to be bought and paid for by lobbyists and beholding to corporations but once the wrong is committed, then it is the sword of Damocles that will fall if one is not responsive to even more nefarious requests. So the protectionism of today is still the samosamo method of maintaining a hold on others by fear of being exposed before the world. And even that is becoming more and more the accepted way of doing 'business' or 'governing' because it is obvious that accountability has all but disappeared, our judicial system is a joke and it is broke.
Cheney admitted on ABC news that he gave the green light for water boarding and said that he thought the interogation techniques should be continued under the Obama administration. All of these criminals must be brought to justice!!!
By what authority did Cheney act? Was the President incapacitated? I am aware of no constitutional authority for the VP to act with a functional President.
GWB - a functional President?
B.O can either stand against Bush's torturing terrorists or join them. Justice delayed is justice denied!
What about Rove? And of course, there's Bush.
If these guys are ever brought to trial, then perhaps they will implicate Rove, Cheney, Bush et al. Meanwhile, no vacations to sunny Spain, I suppose.
Joe
Hang 'em high.
We need a consistently applied rule of law in the US. Unfortunately Obama is not willing to support the rule of law (at least when it might imprison members of his ruling elite).
Obama's not willing now to stand up for anything that he stood for while campaigning. Total chump.