Stopping the War Machine: Military Recruiters Must Be Confronted

Peaceman,

would rather do emails, write me at pureradical@hotmail.com

And I will now go read and perhaps post at comment to:

Robert McChesney/John Nichols:
Who'll Unplug Big Media? Stay Tuned

P.S. something I find fascinating about neo-Conservative "values" is that putting the words mother fucker together is somehow a great offense, supporting the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people being painfully exploded to death on the other hand is supposed to be a virtue. How a human mind gets that inverted is something I literally cannot fathom. It's times like this that I wish I were religious so I could tell Thomas Moore to go to hell in a meaningful fashion, alas I am not, so I cannot. :(

Thomas Moore I think people like you that shill for a war crime committing military are MFs and I am not going to pretend otherwise to mollify you. What it means is that I am EXTREMELY angry when people shill for a gang of thugs killing hundreds of thousands of people

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442...

(Johns Hopkins University study from 2006 showing the U.S. military had caused 650,000 deaths in Iraq, more now)

as the enforcer arm for our corrupt corporations. And yes the honest pro globalists with fess up to this Thomas Friedman said in "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" (a pro globalization book):

"The hidden hand of the market will never work without a hidden fist. "

******

"McDonald's cannot flourish without McDonnell Douglas, the designer of the F-15. "

www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_friedman.html

Here is what the Washington Post said about the U.S. destroying Fallujah:

"Nearly all of the city's estimated 250,000 residents fled before the fighting started, and about 90,000 have returned to find wide swaths of the town in ruin. More than half of Fallujah's 39,000 homes were damaged, and about 10,000 of those were destroyed or left structurally unsound to live in, U.S. officials say. Limited food and fuel supplies mean higher prices and lines that can reach 100 cars at government gas stations.

More than half of Fallujah has no electricity, which is needed to pump water. The bombing caused hundreds of leaks in the city water system and about 60 percent of households must rely on water stored in tanks.

Wearing a white tunic called a dishdasha, sunglasses and headdress, Hamid Taha, a district leader, brushed his hands together when asked about local electricity. "There is no power in our area," he said. Running water is available about three or four hours a day. About half of the 5,000 houses in his district are damaged. But Taha said he worried most about the lack of work.

"Most people in Fallujah now can't get any job. This is our biggest problem. Some people sell their furniture or TV to get money. They also borrow money from rich families," said Taha, who relies on a $140 monthly retirement check from the Defense Ministry.

Others are surviving so far on one-time payments -- $100 from the Iraqi government and $200 from the United States. Homeowners can also receive 20 percent of the value of damaged houses, with an estimated 32,000 homeowners eligible, said Marine Lt. Col. William Brown of the 5th Civil Affairs Group. Yet for some, those payments are already running out."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64292-2005Apr18.html

If someone bombed YOUR town in that way I am quite certain you wouldn't resort to euphemisms but would lament how the enemy destroyed it. Next I suppose you'll tell me the Washington Post, John Hopkins University, and Thomas Friedman (about establishment as it gets) are shilling for radical antiwar acivists.

P.S. destroying half the civilians homes in a town is a war crime under Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions even if you are of the sort to try to parse what the meaning of is, is.

Mother fucker!

hootowl May 29th, 2008 9:04 pm

Well, that was quite a bit of copying. I read the article link. All it proved to me is you have trouble distinguishing propaganda.

One example: I think you'll find that Fallujah was not totally destroyed as the yo-yo that wrote the article claimed. Its filled with opinion, not fact.

All of that does not QED.

Lastly you prove by the use of "motherfucker" as an insult to me exactly what and how you are. Pathetic to have to resort to persional insults and foul language.

But not surprising you do it from a distance. I've seen you before.

kulu May 30th, 2008 5:47 am

Akll I can say is that military recruiters should not be allowed on any educational campus except career day for colleges. Period.

Recruiters out of high schools -- how about middle schools? In Maine the National Guard comes into 7th grade classes, high fiving future cannon fodder as they stride down the halls in their battle fatigues. They put on an "educational" program much like the old DARE aimed at helping kids make good choices (sic). The final class is that they are all bussed to the armory in Augusta for a ropes course. Middle school kids love this program for a variety of reasons: it replaces an academic class for several weeks running, it's physically active and participatory by design, and it's conducted by young, cool guys and gals who let them tell dirty jokes in school and fool around instead of writing lab reports or something really boring like that. Protests to school boards about this meet with responses like: It's a free (sic) program the Guard is volunteering to do for us. OR It's not recruiting, it's drug abuse prevention. Complaints about why the "teachers" are wearing battle fatigues are answered thus: Those are their work clothes. (So I guess their job is killing people?) One year 6th graders looking out the window saw the instructors arriving and were alarmed. "There are army guys here!! What is wrong?" Good way to keep the ante-9/11 fear going among those who were a little young when it happened, eh? You may be wondering why parents allow their children to participate . Because they usually aren't told about it, that's why.

But recruiting our children starts long before that. Ever noticed how many military advertisements there are on MTV, etc? Big $$$ there. Oh, and how much does it cost to land a National Guard helicopter on the football field in the middle of the school day? (Spineless superintendent response to teacher protests: It's not recruiting.) How much expensive fuel is needed to keep the Blue Angels air show wowing youngsters? All paid for by us.

In my fantasy, the citizens of my community will one day walk into their public schools, pick up the materials of the recruiters, carry them outside off school property, and set them beside the road in the gutter where they belong. A non-violent action that would be sure to attract media coverage.

notgoingalong,

I hope you revisit this article as I just returned home . I try to answer others as soon as possible.
You deserve the compliments, Bill, and I do remember our last exchange prior to May Day about your 1968 experience in D.C.

The old medic saw it all and was telling you the right thing. Somehow, too many of us are trying to prove our "manhood" and act out in real-life glorified macho-man images.

If you reply, I'll finish up in the morning.
Thanks,
Frank

If ya'll wonder why I pepper my posting with "Conservative" thinkers sometimes it is to shake you up, to get you out of mental ruts, and to show you their is life and concerned people beyond the lefty salad bar ghetto.

P.p.s. We could also learn a lot from Switzerland's policy of strict neutrality in international conflict. Something I believe leftist pacifists and Ron Paul supporters can agree on contra the imperial state.

WAR IS A RACKET

by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient

Major General Smedley D. Butler - USMC Retired

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

And what is this bill?

This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

The rest is well worth reading of course:

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

As is "conservative" thinker Russell Kirk's condemnation of the draft and military life in general:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/765281/posts

p.s. Thomas Moore what we could learn from Sweden is what an advanced society looks like that educates ALL its citizens that desire it, and takes care of ALL its citizens that fall through the cracks, while also maintaining a vibrant market economy that produces some of the best technology in the world such as Volvo and Saab automobiles.

From Switzerland we could learn about how every one of their households has an assault riffle in it and someone trained in using it responsibly to fend off foreign and domestic tyrants, which is the form of defense originally envisioned by our founding fathers. We could also benefit from studying Switzerland's decentralized Canton system of government which in Green terms would be called be bioregionalism and militia terms Posse Comitatus.

P.S. Thomas Moore in the process of proosecuting wars as an advanced protection racket for U.S. corporations the government killed at least 2 million people in Vietnam and certainly more than a million in Iraq if you add together the number of Iraqis killed by Bush I's criminal and immoral war, Bill Clinton's criminal and immoral sanctions, and Bush IIs criminal and immoral war. How half a Holocausts worth of deaths of innocent civilians can be called anything other than a vastly criminal operation is beyond me. No apologetics for it ii morally acceptable and all who participate in it are criminals of the worse sort from the foot soldier to the President.

That is why stopping recruiters is so vital, we rightly stop street gangs from recruiting in our neighborhoods as being murderous thugs, the U.S. military post WWII is the biggest most criminal gang of them all and must be stopped in a similar fashion.

It is my serious hope that Americans rise up to resist this criminal gang and that is why my opinion is, is that the militia is a better friend to the hard left than New Agers for the militia is on the same page as us that the government is a vast criminal racket and they are ready to resist it heroically by force of arms. And the New Agers? Not so much...

Thomas Moore targeting civilians, or civilian infrastructure a is war crime according the Geneva Conventions:

"In gross violations of international law and the Geneva Conventions, U.S. forces attacked and completely destroyed the city of Fallujah. The U.S. used banned forms of napalm bombs (MK-77 Mod 5), which ignite on impact, to attack the civilian population. According to the Red Cross, more than 6,000 innocent civilians (men, women and children) have been killed while the rest of the population has been displaced and are now refugees. The attack on Falluja, which was a war crime termed "collective punishment" and designed to instil fear and terrorise the entire population of Iraq."

www.globalresearch.ca/articles/HAS506B.html

During Persian Gulf War I under Bush I:

"The United States is knowingly violating Article 54 of the Geneva Convention which prohibits any country from undermining "objects indispensable to the survival of (another country's) civilian population," including drinking water installations and supplies, says Thomas Nagy, a business professor at George Washington University.

Writing in the September 2001 issue of The Progressive, Nagy cites recently declassified documents that show the United States was aware of the civilian health consequences of destroying Iraq's drinking water and sanitation systems in the Gulf War, and knew that sanctions would prevent the Iraqi government from repairing the degraded facilities.

During the Gulf War, coalition forces bombed Iraq's eight multi-purpose dams, destroying flood control systems, irrigation, municipal and industrial water storage, and hydroelectric power. Major pumping stations were targeted, and municipal water and sewage facilities were destroyed.

Article 54 of the Geneva Convention prohibits attacks on "drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works."

Nagy says that not only did the United States deliberately destroy drinking water and sanitation facilities, it knew sanctions would prevent Iraq from rebuilding, and that epidemics would ensue.

One document, written soon after the bombing, warned that sanctions would prevent Iraq from importing "water treatment replacement parts and some essential chemicals" leading to "increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease."

Another document lists the most likely diseases: "diarrheal diseases (particularly children); acute respiratory illnesses (colds and influenza); typhoid; hepatitis A (particularly children); measles, diphtheria, and pertussis (particularly children); meningitis, including meningococcal (particularly children); cholera (possible, but less likely.)"

Then U.S. Navy Secretary John Lehman estimated that 200,000 Iraqis died in the Gulf War, but many more have died since. UNICEF estimates that well over a million Iraqis have died as a result of the U.S-led sanctions regime, in place for the last decade. Some 500,000 children have died, and an estimated 4,000 die from various preventable, sanctions-related diseases, every month, says the U.N. agency."

www.mediamonitors.net/gowans22.html

In killing civilians at check points and bombing civilian areas the U.S. government has continued in it's violation of article 54 of the Geneva Conventions if you read the text:

"PART IV: CIVILIAN POPULATION
Section 1: General Protection Against Effects of Hostilities
Chapter I: Basic Rule and Field of Application
Article 48: Basic Rule
In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives.
Article 49: Definition of Attacks and Scope of Application

1. "Attacks" means acts of violence against the adversary, whether in offense or in defense.
2. The provisions of this Protocol with respect to attacks apply to all attacks in whatever territory conducted, including the national territory belonging to a Party to the conflict but under the control of an adverse Party.
3. The provisions of this Section apply to any land, air or sea warfare which may affect the civilian population, individual civilians or civilian objects on land. They further apply to all attacks from the sea or from the air against objectives on land but do not otherwise affect the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict at sea or in the air.
4. The provisions of this Section are additional to the rules concerning humanitarian protection contained in the Fourth Convention, particularly in Part II thereof, and in other international agreements binding upon the High Contracting Parties, as well as to other rules of international law relating to the protection of civilians and civilian objects on land, at sea or in the air against the effects of hostilities.

Chapter II: Civilians and Civilian Population
Article 50: Definition of Civilians and Civilian Population

1. A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 A 111, lIl, (31 and 161 of the Third Convention and in Article 43 of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.
2. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.
3. The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character.

Article 51: Protection of the Civilian Population

1. The civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against dangers arising from military operations. To give effect to this protection, the following rules, which are additional to other applicable rules of international law, shall be observed in all circumstances.
2. The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.
3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Section, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.
4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:
1. those which are not directed at a specific military objective;
2. those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or
3. those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.
5. Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate:
1. an attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects; and
2. an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.
6. Attacks against the civilian population or civilians by way of reprisals are prohibited.
7. The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favor or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.
8. Any violation of these prohibitions shall not release the Parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population and civilians, including the obligation to take the precautionary measures provided for in Article 57.

Chapter III: Civilian Objects
Article 52: General Protection of Civilian Objects

1. Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of reprisals. Civilian objects are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 2.
2. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.
3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used. Article 53 Protection of cultural objects and of places of worship without prejudice to the provisions of the Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict of 14 May 1954, and of other relevant international instruments, it is prohibited:
1. to commit any acts of hostility directed against the historic monuments, works of art or places of worship which constitute the cultural or spiritual heritage of peoples;
2. to use such objects in support of the military effort;
3. to make such objects the object of reprisals.

Article 54: Protection of Objects Indispensable to the Survival of the Civilian Population

1. Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare is prohibited
2. It is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works, for the specific purpose of denying them for their sustenance value to the civilian population or to the adverse Party, whatever the motive, whether in order to starve out civilians, to cause them to move away, or for any other motive.
3. The prohibitions in paragraph 2 shall not apply to such of the objects covered by it as are used by an adverse Party:
1. as sustenance solely for the members of its armed forces; or
2. if not as sustenance, then in direct support of military action, provided, however, that in no event shall actions against these objects be taken which may be expected to leave the civilian population with such inadequate food or water as to cause its starvation or force its movement.
4. These objects shall not be made the object of reprisals.
5. In recognition of the vital requirements of any Party to the conflict in the defense of its national territory against invasion, derogation from the prohibitions contained in paragraph 2 may be made by a Party to the conflict within such territory under its own control where required by imperative military necessity.

Article 55: Protection of the Natural Environment

1. Care shall be taken in warfare to protect the natural environment against widespread, long-term and severe damage. This protection includes a prohibition of the use of methods or means of warfare which are intended or may be expected to cause such damage to the natural environment and thereby to prejudice the health or survival of the population.
2. Attacks against the natural environment by way of reprisals are prohibited.

Article 56: Protection of Works and Installations Containing Dangerous Forces

1. Works or installations containing dangerous forces, namely dams, dikes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives, if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population. Other military objectives located at or in the vicinity of these works or installations shall not be made the object of attack if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces from the works or installations and consequent severe losses among the civilian population.
2. The special protection against attack provided by paragraph I shall cease:
1. for a dam or a dike only if it is used for other than its normal function and in regular, significant and direct support of military operations and if such attack is the only feasible way to terminate such support;
2. for a nuclear electrical generating station only if it provides electric power in regular, significant and direct support of military operations and if such attack is the only feasible way to terminate such support;
3. for other military objectives located at or in the vicinity of these works or installations only if they are used in regular, significant and direct support of military operations and if such attack is the only feasible way to terminate such support.
3. In all cases, the civilian population and individual civilians shall remain entitled to all the protection accorded them by international law, including the protection of the precautionary measures provided for in Article 57. If the protection ceases and any of the works, installations or military objectives mentioned in paragraph 1 is attacked, all practical precautions shall be taken to avoid the release of the dangerous forces.
4. It is prohibited to make any of the works, installations or military objectives mentioned in paragraph 1 the object of reprisals.
5. The Parties to the conflict shall endeavor to avoid locating any military objectives in the vicinity of the works or installations mentioned in paragraph 1. Nevertheless, installations erected for the sole purpose of defending the protected works or installations from attack are permissible and shall not themselves be made the object of attack, provided that they are not used in hostilities except for defensive actions necessary to respond to attacks against the protected works or installations and that their armament is limited to weapons capable only of repelling hostile action against the protected works or installations.
6. The High Contracting Parties and the Parties to the conflict are urged to conclude further agreements among themselves to provide additional protection for objects containing dangerous forces.
7. In order to facilitate the identification of the objects protected by this Article, the Parties to the conflict may mark them with a special sign consisting of a group of three bright orange circles placed on the same axis, as specified in Article 16 of Annex I to this Protocol. The absence of such marking in no way relieves any Party to the conflict of its obligations under this Article.

Chapter IV: Precautionary Measures
Article 57: Precautions in Attack

1. In the conduct of military operations, constant care shall be taken to spare the civilian population, civilians and civilian objects.
2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:
1. those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:
1. do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of paragraph 2 of Article 52 and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;
2. take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;
3. refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;
2. an attack shall be canceled or suspended if it becomes apparent that the objective is not a military one or is subject to special protection or that the attack may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;
3. effective advance warning shall be given of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not pemmit.
3. When a choice is possible between several military objectives for obtaining a similar military advantage, the objective to be selected shall be that the attack on which may be expected to cause the least danger to civilian lives and to civilian objects.
4. In the conduct of military operations at sea or in the air, each Party to the conflict shall, in conformity with its rights and duties under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, take all reasonable precautions to avoid losses of civilian lives and damage to civilian objects
5. No provision of this article may be construed as authorizing any attacks
against the civilian population, civilians or civilian objects.

deoxy.org/wc/wc-proto.htm

In reading the law and reviewing the actions of BOTH the civilian and military leadership during Persian Gulf War I, the sanctions against Iraq, the war against Serbia, the war against Afghanistan and the current war against Iraq it is my sincere opinion that the U.S. government is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Thus when I said that above I was not merely exaggerating for rhetorical effect but stating my honest opinion. Further IMO the civilian and military leadership of Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II administrations ought to be in the docket at the Hague, tried, found guilty and hung from the neck until dead for crimes against humanity in the same way the Nazis were.

QED motherfucker.

TComer May 29th, 2008 6:00 pm

I was posting Gone With The Wind above and missed your post.

Amen brother!!

ticonderoga May 29th, 2008 11:45 am

Fair comment. And a couple of good points.

"Why not list a few countries that have good current humanitarian records in order to make your comparison? Iceland, Denmark, Norway, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany (most of Europe, in fact), Australia, and Canada all have better current humanitarian records than the United States does."

Who decided these "humanitarian" records? Most of these countries have homogenous populations, are small and have fairly restrictive conditions to do anything. You could drop most of them in my State and we wouldn't even know they were here. In Germany for example if you wish to move to another town, you have to report to the police.

I guess you would have to define "humanitarian"

My point was I wouldn't trade our country for any of those I named nor would I trade it for any you named. For all our troubles and problems, we add more to the world.

"Capitalism? There's nothing wrong with capitalism, as long as its buffered with some controls, but when you let capitalism run rampant you end up with a monster. Pure capitalism has no soul."

Fair comment and I wouldn't disagree for a moment. Deregulating business and allowing them to go unfettered has produced the sorry state we are in now.

"Just because someone wants to make some changes in how a capitalistic society works doesn't mean they're against capitalism per se."

I'd never think that of constructive arguments, criticism, comment or suggestions. But saying we are the worst country in the world, "imperialists", scourge of humanity just gets my goat. You'd have to be pretty insular to believe that.

"Heres a list of changes that I think should be made in our capitalistic society:"

A. No starting wars for profit and if a war is started for a reason other than profit no one should be able to make a profit from it once its started.

I'll buy that.

B. no selling water (water is the necessary for all life on earth and should be free to all)

I assume you are not speaking of community water supplies that are processed to be made safe? There will always be a cost for that.

C. no draining dry a community's water supply to make soft drinks.

Works for me.

D. free health care for all (you shouldn't have to forgo health treatment because you're not wealthy or because you don't have health insurance)

There is no such thing as free health care. Someone always has to pay for it. Now basic health care at no charge paid for by taxes we need.Then you don't have to worry about those that can't afford it. A single payer system.

E. subsidized housing for the poor and elderly.

Frankly subsidized housing just makes slums and rewards crooked businessmen like the Section 8 program. Why not communities like the old Levitt Town? Paid for with taxes, titles to those that need it, broken into neighborhoods with control in their hands.

F. to help pay for all this, cut back on the military (not on the troops, though, but on high-tech, expensive weapons).

Works for me! We have far too many officers and far, far too many make work projects like the V-22 tilt rotor.

Once again I'm speaking about the constant bashing of our military here. Its simply foolish. We can't do without them,they certainly deserve respect.

Earlier someone commented on the military being filled with soldiers that gave blind obedience, hierarchy and conformity. Its a stupid comment in the first place. But I'd point out to him that it was that discipline that kept us from breaking ranks and kicking the crap out of some folks just like him that had spit on us.

Antiwar and antimilitary are two different things. A lot of folks like this idiot that suggest military service gives no skills that can be used in civilian life or after the service, simply don't understand that for some of these kids, its their only hope and their best chance at being successful.

The militaries whole philosophy is to prepare for war but never to fight except as a last resort.

"So, because I'd like to see the above changes made, does that mean I'm advocating a communist system?"

Of course not. No one would be stupid enough to advocate a failed system like that.

But there are some suggestions that encompass socialist methods that have failed all over the world. Thats the only thing I was thinking of. Sometimes I trip over my own tongue.

I still think that recruiters should never be on an educational campus. They have no business there.
They do however need to recruit to conserve a volunteer army, the alternative is a draft, which I consider anathema. Dishonest recruiting no, but recruiting yes. Citizenship is not free.

"And when people bash the US, its not necessarily because they think the US is a bad country per se. It could be because they think its a great country gone bad and want it to go back to being great."

And that I'd accept any day! Not "gone bad" though, just badly off track. Thanks for the thoughts.

Tmrraven500 May 29th, 2008 5:33 pm

"Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

I'd certainly accept that.

"he quicker you realize the U.S. government is a criminal organization that has killed millions of people by intervening EVERY year somewhere since then to maintain a bloated exploitive empire the better:"

I simply don't buy that nor do I believe we have any kind of "Empire". Is government out of control, you bet. Is business exploitive, darn straight.

"an argument fallacy known as "false dichotomy" (do a google search). Sweden and Switzerland OTH are countries the U.S. could stand to learn a great deal from."

Believe it or not I know what a "false dichotomy" is. As to History, I didn't complete my Masters in it, but one of My B.A.'s is in History.

Your point about learning from other countries is well taken. I believe we could learn from many others and stop making mistakes they have already made.

Sweden is pretty much welfare state that so far works for their small country, but I'm not sure it would transfer well to a comparatively vast country. And Switzerland is very tightly controlled. They don't let us commoners in.

But I'd be very interested in what you had in mind for learning form them both or others.

I would suggest you reconsider your suggestion that Marines and soldiers in Iraq are "war criminals" since that statement is patently absurd.

The ability to write what you just did was purchased for you, it did not come free. Nor if you really got your wish would there be any guarantee you would retain your "rights"

These kids are doing hard duty, they wouldn't if they had a choice, blame the government, blame specifically Cheney the Antichrist, but lay off the kids please.

Why do we have such a massive military? It's simple, people. $ecurity and $afety.

I'm an Air Force vet and I do think we need some military and be able to defend ourselves and assist our allies. Lately, though, it seems the military is used to $ecure $afe profits for Corporations.

Thomas J. Comer

I am not grateful for the military inspidnonbabe not only are they killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq right now as we speak using my tax payer dollars, in doing so they are actually making my life LESS safe as every family cleaning up the remains of a dead infant killed by a U.S. airstrike quite rightly hates the U.S. government, wants revenge, and makes my life less safe.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=U.S.+war+crimes+dead+civilians+I...

(Warning graphic images of U.S. government war crimes against Iraqi civilians)

A pox on the military and all its efforts including recruiting our children to become war criminals.

The sooner we return back to a defense of the country borders by ad will militias as intended by the founding fathers the better. I wish Vermont and other regions the best of luck in breaking away from the cruel exploitive in both private and public sector U.S. empire.

http://www.vermontrepublic.org/

U.S. hard left + militia gun loving right against the bloated corporate empire for the win.

Thomas Moore I believe Mark Twain said it best when he said:

"Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/q169487.html

The quicker you realize the U.S. government is a criminal organization that has killed millions of people by intervening EVERY year somewhere since then to maintain a bloated exploitive empire the better:

www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

As well as the CIA overthrowing democratically elected governments working on behalf of their people:

www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

Learn some history, come back and repost, OK? Hint the alternatives aren't only "North Korea" or the U.S. that is an argument fallacy known as "false dichotomy" (do a google search). Sweden and Switzerland OTH are countries the U.S. could stand to learn a great deal from.

turce: your question was?

mrraven500: I am well aware of what the Constitution says about the military, I am also aware of something called the elastic clause. I just recently posted my comments about "Women Warriors", an earlier piece on this website. I really think all the hysteria about military recruiters on college campus' is a ruse as most college students are or claim to be adults. High schools is another matter. We need the military to secure and defend our borders. Sadly, the old days [of our forefathers and foremothers] is long gone and those that wish harm upon us is an ever present danger. You should be grateful for the military as they do serve at the command of civilians.

Peaceman,

Thanks, you are being very generous. I had been partying and should not have sent that one without at least proof reading it, and should even rewrite it, just to see if I can. LOL...

An old man, who lived down the block, stopped one afternoon as I was sitting on the front steps and told me of his experience as a medic in World War One. He described wadding in blood, with young men in agony and dying. He warned me to not go to war.

I had never spoken with him before, nor do I know his name. But he did care enough about me, just a teenager on the block, and did what I suggested we all should be doing as individuals at every opportunity.

When I was a baby, the house caught on fire. I would have burned to death, but again, an unknown neighbor, went in and saved me. That would have been in 1943, and he was likely an officer, and he may not have survived the war, or even ever reflected on his heroism that night.

Which one of us, would not have done the same thing? So, can it be harder, to do what the older man had done, to stop and bear witness to some naive teenage boys or girls?

We can get called for jury duty, and waste time going to many events, including to the polls in retrospect; then we must put forth a greater time and energy into engaging, befriending, and radicalizing the youth.

It is our duty, a sacred duty in fact. To honor the living, and not glorify death and war. "A word to the wise is sufficient" - but it was not enough to keep me from enlisting airborne a few years later. So it takes an antiwar culture, a grasp of history, the constant jumping up and down, screaming and shouting in outrage at the criminal conspiracies that wars of aggression are necessarily made of.

James Petras did a great article last week on the subject.:

Provocations as Pretexts for Imperial War: From Pearl Harbor to 9/11

I must state that he has a serious disconnect in his article. He states all the fraudulent pretext and provocations for war from Pearl Harbor in 1941 to Pearl Harbor in 2001. He erroneously or pragmatically, has taken the position that like in the first instance the attack was allowed to go without warning of interruption, but it was all filmed by the military and used to inflame passions, in was psychological warfare aimed at the American people to get to support and be intimidated to oppose, the country going to war, and with a Declaration of War, to oppose it, would be treated as giving aid and comfort to the enemy. And here racism was organic and exploited. I have wondered if the Japanese were actually put into protective custody for fear of lynch mobs of blood-thirsty Americans psyched into a frenzy of genocidal proportions.

Petras, to get back to the point, takes the same position on 9/11, that the government knew all about it, and let it happen to exploit it just as they did.

Well, the hijackings and official story is a pack of lies period. Just as there was no attack on the USS Maddox and Turner Joy in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964.

Anyway if you have not read the article, with that disclaimer by me, I highly endorse it as required reading, Petras is still one of my great teachers, and I want him to rethink things, he certainly can do it.

Bill

Military recruiters, songs, movies, GI Joe dolls, some video games, politicians, propanda in general, it's all the same: a conspiracy to glorify war for profit.

Thomas More, in order to make a point that the United States is a better than average country, peace and freedom-wise, you listed some countries that are well known for their poor current human rights records. That's easy to do. Why not list a few countries that have good current humanitarian records in order to make your comparison? Iceland, Denmark, Norway, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany (most of Europe, in fact), Australia, and Canada all have better current humanitarian records than the United States does. The US foments or starts wars all over the world to promote the business interests of US corporations. The US is in the business of overthrowing other countries. The biggest drug dealer on earth is the CIA.

But it's not the troops fault, it's the propaganda machine's. The recruiters are, perhaps, more to be pitied than censured. After all, they're just doing what they've been taught to do, what they've been conditioned to do. So, if we pass laws barring them from doing any recruiting on high school campuses all we will be doing is helping them to not do the wrong thing. But we're propagandized, too, so we probably won't so this.

Capitalism? There's nothing wrong with capitalism, as long as it's buffered with some controls, but when you let capitalism run rampant you end up with a monster. Pure capitalism has no soul. But arguing against people who see problems with capitalism doesn't fly when you use an either/or argument. Just because someone wants to make some changes in how a capitalistic society works doesn't mean they're against capitalism per se.

Here's a list of changes that I think should be made in our capitalistic society: No starting wars for profit and if a war is started for a reason other than profit no one should be able to make a profit from it once it's started, no selling water (water is the necessary for all life on earth and should be free to all), no draining dry a community's water supply to make soft drinks, free health care for all (you shouldn't have to forgo health treatment because you're not wealthy or because you don't have health insurance) and subsidized housing for the poor and elderly. And, to help pay for all this, cut back on the military (not on the troops, though, but on high-tec, expensive weapons).

So, because I'd like to see the above changes made, does that mean I'm advocating a communist system?

And when people bash the US, it's not necessarily because they think the US is a bad country per se. It could be because they think it's a great country gone bad and want it to go back to being great.

"HEY CD I was on the Hill 1 1/2 weeks ago, all those bumperstickers I bought from you I plastered on all the House members cars!!!!!"

"As I have been saying: a very effective way of stopping the American war machine is to CONDEMN our troops.

DON'T SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!
DON'T SUPPORT OUR WAR CRIMINALS!!"

Very, very brave of you folks.

Where did you find that this is an illegal war? It of course is not. The idiot started it with full legal authority under US law.

When anyone makes false claims or uses the jingoistic slogans of the sixties, you simply weaken the case against a war that should never have been, an unjust war, but we started it, so we will have to fix it.

Caterwaul all you like, but what is our responsibility to the citizens of Iraq? Are we going to say....excuse me, we had a nutcase for a President, but we've got a new one. See you later, have a good life.

There is a lot of BS floating around on this site (some would suggest my comments are part of it)but if we don't start getting a bit more realistic in our aims, stop advocating hard left positions, liberals will once again be consigned to the cheap seats.

If Pelosi and Reid are your idea of legislators and leaders of the liberal cause, we are in real trouble.

And just for curiosity, don't some of you get tired of bashing our country? Its better than any other I've ever seen. If you've seen a better one, name it. If you can't name one, perhaps you should reconsider.

Trot on over to China and try saying some of the things you say here. You'll get a quick lesson in what you had here. Or Burma, that would be a treat.

Lets get it out....where is the country that is so much better than ours? Who is this model of humanity? Which one is it that even comes close to our record of aid to the rest of the world? Who exactly are you measuring our country against. Its time to get specific.

Don't want the military? Whats your specific alternative?

Don't like our country? Who do you want us to be like?

Don't like a capitalistic society? Whats your alternative?

Would any of you like to trade the security of America for the security of say....Venezuela or Darfur?

Prefer North Korea or South Korea? Which would be your model?

I'm not saying for a minute that we haven't done some thiings wrong, that there aren't some people that need to answer for their actions, that we won't make mistakes in the future. We are definately imperfect. But what we are not is a predatory. imperalistic society. You insult the American people when you say that. Its not true, never has been.

We will exclude business and corporations from the above remark. Thats an entirely different discussion.

notgoingalong, 5:20am post

Brilliant, articulate comments! And thanks for the links.
As a combat veteran of another unjust, illegal crime against humanity perpetrated by the United States, I salute you for your efforts!

US taxslaves demonstrate a healthy appetite for war debt. Now they're ready to move up to a full mercenary army. Private soldiers will be non-citizens with pay of $25k/year plus citizenship and officers will be US citizens, $250k/year. Recruitment will be no problem for the Blackwater Crusaders - just a few classified ads in the newspapers.

People who are raised on constant entertainment (i.e. your current young generations) are severely disabled in the realm of analysis and judgment. This is intentional on the part of corporate purveyors of this "culture." It is very difficult to educate people who have been brainwashed since birth -- but I'll keep trying. Over-population of the planet induces many to live in virtual places that distract them from the uncomfortably crowded whereabouts of their physical self. My prediction: the circus will probably not stop until the bread runs out and people start to wake up from their electronically induced daze. And as soon as the oil runs out, the bread will quickly follow.

Dear Ron,

Remember the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" that never happened? With that perspective of witnessing how it was planned, executed by deception, treason, and war crimes; the US War in Indochina. Not to "defend the US Navy on the high seas!"? But now we know about Operation Northwoods and can see it as a rewrite on 9/11 with little imagination! Making that the prime argument against the wars of aggression by whatever name.
You are right, absent a return of the draft, the recruiters along are is must life destructive force we can find to confront. I have been arrested for doing just that, among other antiwar acts.
But, no one arrest the recruiters, the principals of the high school that sell-out their students, as do their teachers, coaches, neighbors, preacher, and every vet and enlightened soul on the block or in rural America who watched these kids grow-up in their midst, and never took the time to share what they know of the poison of war.
So is fair to say, if you are not consciously and courageously engaged in dissemination of what we have learned, tragically the hard way, that which we did not, soon enough, but irrespective of that, share it with others as long as we live, we are conniving facilitators and aiding and abetting the war crimes and self-destruction that follows those sucked into it?
And what of all the little federal flags, are they not obnoxious and obsequious in their craven display? That is on a psychological scale, nothing less than the endorsement of illegal wars of aggression, based on the 9/11 False Flag pretext in sync will a conspiring highly centralized corporate mass media owned and controlled by the military industrial-complex.
Facilitators are also WAR CRIMINALS! Those silent in the military, the classroom, the administration of our high schools and colleges, the journalist, editors, publishers, and all those who do not "throw their bodies upon the gears of the war machine" which includes all those disinformation commercials plaster all over the mass media, print and electronic, during ballgames. Even the pledge of allegiance to the flag is not contrary to supporting and defending the constitution against all enemies, domestic and foreign. Wouldn't that be better, it was the oath we took upon being a member of the US Armed Forces? "'I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"'
Have you read the empowering article by Professor Lawrence Masqueda, in which he lays out the most important thing every member of the military MUST honor and obey, that our oaths demanded of us, and we raised our right-hand and took it, one and all. But, that alone does not tell the story, for what our duty was. A Duty to Disobey All Unlawful Orders - An Advisory to US Troops -DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL LAW
a moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ..
If the war is indeed illegal, members of the armed forces have a legal and moral obligation to resist illegal orders, according to their oath of induction.
The evidence from an international perspective is overwhelming. The United States Constitution makes treaties that are signed by the government equivalent to the "law of the land" itself, Article VI, para. 2. Among the international laws and treaties
The Nuremberg Principles, which define as a crime against peace, "planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements, or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for accomplishment of any of the forgoing." (For many of these treaties and others, see the Yale Avalon project at www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm.
Bob Dylan stated it most powerfully that is now on You Tube with visuals added in his signature song: Master of War
One of key empowering weapons against illegal wars of aggression is the surprisingly, the US Constitution, International Law, and US Law. Yes, it is criminal in the United States to be a war criminal, yet the country is governed criminally, which actually not possible, constitutionally. So, the remedy is judging the violation of the US Constitution is intolerable; to the degree that anything contrary is 'null and void' meaning does not and never did, respectively.
The vacuum, has put the government back in our hands, in spite of our incompetence at self-government, it is not too late, but nonetheless retarded that we didn't apprehend these despotic enemies of the US Constitution and therefore, 'We, the people of the United States, and in fact the world or most of it, being subjected to US interference without invitation, which amounts to imperialism, just walking with an aircraft carrier and the CIA having hit-teams in the area. Mercenary thugs, with and without badges and uniforms, just on the payroll, a mercenary by any name, is a mercenary; career military who will bomb anywhere, and that is true of land and sea forces; all in contravention of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the US Constitution, Laws of Land Warfare, and FM 27-10 Chapter 8, addresses the right of reprisal, between the invaded, occupied, and murdered by the millions, have every legal, moral, and Right of Self-Defense, a universal right of every country, every person, everywhere; can use any possible means to repeal and drive out the aggressor, invader, occupying murderous thieves.
Yes the trust, the contract, the covenant, the terms; that said we will allow a few to speak for the many in fair and free elections, and the adoption of the Bill of Rights, otherwise the US Constitution would not have been ratified, for being a relative piece of shit without it!
It is the same old Yankee Imperialism, typically attacking small nearly defenseless countries had done nothing to justify being attacked or invaded, but they were regardless. And that is exactly like today, as always; that wars are instigated, provocations are part of it, and if that fails, there is False Flag operations well rehearsed and really to go, as was Operation Northwoods, that was updated in location and country of interest to invade and commit genocide, steal the cities and countryside, a looting, raping in every way possible. Lenny Bruce said to an audience of perhaps a hundred at a nightclub in San Francisco. Lenny said, "How many Europeans are in the audience?" At least a third of the hands are raised. Lenny continues in saying, "I was in the navy in world war two, and I was in Europe, and there is one thing I never want you to forget; that we tried to fuck your mother for a candy bar." --- I was there.

Ron Kovic's advocacy for counter-recruitment is a practical thing. We can all get involved with this effort and stop present and future wars dead in their tracks - simply by talking to the next war's recruits, our children.

Please get involved. Many national organizations have initiated local groups to inform students about the realities of military service, recruiter promises and student alternatives to being pushed by recruiter marketing campaigns.

Please do a search for "counter-recruitment." You will find groups such as the National Lawyers Guild, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC), Coalition Against Militarism in Schools (CAMS) and many more that have established local branches of active citizens. Members of these groups do simple things like attend PTA meetings, pass out leaflets to students before class and lobby state legislatures to remove opt-in clauses in schools that put student information into the hands of military recruiters.

You should know, as noted above, that military recruiters lie to the students (the poster above is correct that the Congressional Accounting Office wrote a study chronicaling recruiter lies, which it called "irregularities"). The biggest lie is the biggest lure: money for education. It turns out that very few veterans actually get money to continue their education after serving. Military training also seldom results in useful training for subsequent civilian jobs (another lie).

Recruiters use modern marketing techniques, such as knowing what kids' favorite TV show are, befriending the "leaders" among kids, etc. They have a millions from the government to rope kids into the war effort, and Bush's No Child Left Behind school funding act has a clause that puts student home phone numbers and school records into the hands of recruiters. They call students at home. Recruiters can't be evicted from campus without the school potentially losing its federal funding.

If you aren't mad, you need to feel it. This is all of our problem. A recruited child will bring woe to his family, as he's returned dead or maimed, or psychologically scarred.

Oh, sorry. Thank you for your defense mrraven.

Now the one prior to the one that will eventually wrote is being moderated and I used the you know words with asterisks and # signs.
They have the Department Of Homeland Security on this site for sure.

Well last one did not even come up, I suppose I am banned. time to wash hard drive and change username I s'pose.

Ron,
I read "Born on the 4th of July" in the AIR CONDITIONED engine-room of a nuke attack boat, under the North Atlantic, in 1977. Your description of how 19 yr olds died in the mud, made me realize how lucky I was. Death under water is swift and rare. Infantrymen frequently die slowly in pain and sewage.

But don't blame the recruiters for Iraq. Blame the Nation. This country allowed itself to be smitten by the war-monger Project for the New American Century crowd. Hatred is now a national religion. People send hateful E-mails about immigrants, Muslims, and Iranians. Scott McClellan just grew a set of testicles and admitted BushCo lied us into the Iraq war. The "Good Scott" (Scott Ritter USMC) tried valiantly to warn America of the unfolding scam. America watched "Idol"!

Recruiters were accurate in my case, I learned a valuable trade. I believe a first rate military should be a source of pride for any country. Defending against aggression is the right of all nations. But deploying the force should be given intense scrutiny. Truthful, accurate, information is essential for making these decisions. Blaming "intelligence failures" is really lying, as shown by the "Downing Street Memos".

Support Wise Use of the Troops!

I promise ;) to not glue any toothpicks. I really hate the recruiters shiny cars in bright colors.

Do you think people would be more agreeable to outsourcing national defense? We do it already with port security, aircraft and electronics manufacturing...

Oh wait. That would be slavery, right? Importing foreigners to do the dirty work? Lying to children however, seems to be a perfectly legal means to a wholly disgusting ends.

Let's contract minors for an undisclosed period of service. Four years? Tell that to all the recalled and stop-lossed troops.

Veterans for Peace were recently excluded from our armed forces day parade. Disgusting.

As a parent, I am looking into homeschooling. It'll get worse before it gets better.

Military recruiters do have quotas and they do get 'bonuses' for enlistments, regardless of what they tell you. I went in to a recruitment center and asked; the guys in there admitted it.

It's time for the quota and bonus system to be stopped.

Thanks for expressing your thoughts Ron.

Insipidmilitaryindustrialapolagistnonbabe said "The military needs personnel; who else is going to defend this country against its enemies? "

I always reserve the right to determine for MYSELF who the "enemy" is, anyone with more than 3 functioning brain cells knows whether they are a leftist or Libertarian that the war crime committing Constitution violating U.S. government is the number 1 "enemy" of it's citizens, followed by the out of control corporations, and then followed by the banks. Of course all these people work synergistically so perhaps the easiest formulation is the military industrial complex is your enemy.

Knowing who the real enemy is BTW is just one reason I break with the near consensus on CD favoring gun control.

Mike Peters keep rocking it man... As Steve Earle said the revolution starts now...

ok, gracias
I go tomorrow to confront stupid brainwashed military pukes,
that ask if they tell 18 y o about all in Iraq chew khat

i will fuck them ask to hit a 54 y.o. man surfer shark fisherman for 45 years
local boy, your hommie......

hit me asshole brainwashed to kill little brown skin or black people
I will fuck with their needle dick minds
for my entertainment
here in ignorant redneck riviera
b 4 i go back El Salvador next week

they fuck with me,?
i always need crab bait and then know where they sleep.....................

best to remove these traitors of 'la gente'

12 million Mexican with guns
gotta love it

see www.totse.com on how to make what you need to eliminate the scum bags of the present admin

wake up sheeples
ready to rock? does notr metter for me, this place is very polluted, nuclear and sunny point, Wilmywood,,NC all due to your military madness

wait for the signal,compadres
know your targets

turce: If you are being "moderated", then maybe you should be respectful and use standard English so the question can be published and then answered. So, what was your question to me?

Hollow Point:
welcome to Canada, glad you made it. I hope your kids will be safe now from the Bush regime. When MCCAIN gets in or that puppet OB I can see the draft will follow. I know it will take time but when you read the Toronto Star and watch the CBC for a few months you will see the truth is out there just not in America media.

McCain endlessly reminds us that he's a war hero, and the press echoes with waving flags. He is, but he's a lucky one. He came home physically intact and has found wealth, fame and power. He uses jingoist rhetoric about supporting the troops, but votes against their interests most of the time. He eagerly places them, and a vastly greater number of innocent civilians in faraway places, in harm's way and displays appalling callousness toward their suffering.

Hillary Clinton, George Bush and John McCain visit hospitals and shed crocodile tears for the victims of their intrigues, then deny them adequate care and compensation.

The best way to support the troops is to bring them home.

As I have been saying: a very effective way of stopping the American war machine is to CONDEMN our troops.

DON'T SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!
DON'T SUPPORT OUR WAR CRIMINALS!!

mrraven500, I know @ the GENE@AL ST&*KE, yesterday was html links, only 2, today I used UNCLAS$IFIED, because of predatory recruiting practices. I never was moderated over the past year but 2 in 1 day and 1 yesterday.
Just wanted to know if that damn comment re;the silly named rockerbabe
Thanks, do not have time for word processor, i know which words to break up, the last one was absurd though, F$$K this site.
HEY CD I was on the Hill 1 1/2 weeks ago, all those bumperstickers I bought from you I plastered on all the House members cars!!!!!

Rockerbabe1 The original intent of the founding fathers was that there was to be no standing army and instead we were to be defended by at will militias organized when the need arises. Although I am perhaps 85+ % radical lefty being pro choice, pro gay rights, pro government support of the poor, pro safety regs, pro National parks, and pro revolution against corporate control I do actually think the far right is correct about the role of militias in our national defense. In the Constitution it says:

"Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

Notice there is NO real provision for a permanent standing army, and an implication the army ought not to be funded for more than 2 years and the militia is given far more coverage than the army, and if you see the previous posting I made the idea of standing army was VERY controversial at the time the Constitution was written. So in sum military recruiters in our schools is not only fundamentally ethically repulsive but against fundamental American ideas as stated in the Constitution.

Further the national Guard is NOT the sole militia as many disingenuously claim.

" (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=10&sec=311

SAN PABLO MAC: Excellent post. Thank you for your efforts to raise awareness!

Turce MANY of us have been "moderated" lately when will the CD moderators make some sort of statement as to what's up? The natives are getting restless...

Vinlander good point MANY of the founding fathers warned against the danger of standing armies. Read the anti-Federalist paper "The President as Military King" and see if you don't find it eerily prescient for today:

"Before martial law is declared to be the supreme law of the land, and your character of free citizens be changed to that of the subjects of a military king—which are necessary consequences of the adoption of the proposed constitution—let me admonish you in the name of sacred liberty, to make a solemn pause. Permit a freeman to address you, and to solicit your attention to a cause wherein yourselves and your posterity are concerned. The sun never shone upon a more important one. It is the cause of freedom of a whole continent of yourselves and of your fellow men.…

A conspiracy against the freedom of America, both deep and dangerous, has been formed by an infernal junto of demagogues. Our thirteen free commonwealths are to be consolidated into one despotic monarchy. Is not this position obvious? Its evidence is intuitive .… Who can deny but the president general will be a king to all intents and purposes, and one of the most dangerous kind too—a king elected to command a standing army. Thus our laws are to be administered by this tyrant; for the whole, or at least the most important part of the executive department is put in his hands."

http://www.infoplease.com/t/hist/antifederalist/philadelphiensis.html

Stand in their doorways and block up their halls!

I keep getting moderated please tell me if my question/reply re;Rockerbabe 1 is up or not, please

In spite of all those reasoned and passionate and sensitive responses to Ron Kovic, we still have someone announce "The military needs personnel; who else is going to defend this country against its enemies?"--which is a military cliche often used (perhaps in different words)to lure young people into becoming slaves to the governmental and military machine by appealing to their, should I say, romantic nature in which they think they are protecting democracy and freedom and decency and good people against anti-democractic brain-washed evil people. The truth is that most (all?) of the wars we have been in, we have started--to protect the $ for the "leading" (rich) citizens. Don't take my word for it, do some research--that means find out for your self, especially in the way the $ (our money!) has been used/abused in Iraq, and in case we ignore the historical, include a bit of research on how the US treated the people of the Phillipines, trying to protect themselves from occupation by the new invader, the US, after they were "liberated" by our war with Spain: consider, you might find out that the US military committed themselves to something like what today we call "genocide," and were welcomed back as heroes. Yes.

Getting moderated again, this place is chock full of the Departments JO's. Thanks CD, you slimey cochon!

Ron, you atelling it like it is! Keep up the good work! We behind you all the way. I don't believe Barack Obama is aconsidering you for a running mate right along with Jim Webb.

"When the whole damn country is crippled, then the war will end."

Well said , Ghawar . As sincere and true as Ron Kovic's commentary was , you said it all in 12 words .

Military recruiters, like all military service personnel have their orders and are expected to follow them and achieve the desired results. Recruiters at college campuses, for the most part are dealing with students 18 years of age and older; they can make their own decision and if not, then maybe they need to be back home with the parents. The military needs personnel; who else is going to defend this country against its enemies? The commentators on this website - I wonder?