Blackwater Shooting Highlights A US, Iraq Culture Clash
BAGHDAD - He refused to take the Americans’ blood money.
Mohammed Hafidh Abdul-Razzaq had been summoned by U.S. Embassy officials who wanted to make amends for the killing of his 10-year-old son. The boy died during a shooting involving employees of Blackwater Worldwide, the U.S. security firm.
Deputy Chief of Mission Patricia A. Butenis told him that she was sorry for what had happened, Abdul-Razzaq recalled. She gave him a sealed envelope. It had his name written on it. Abdul-Razzaq pushed it away.
“I told her I refuse to receive any amount,” the auto parts dealer said. “My father is a tribal sheik, and we’re not used to taking any amount unless the concerned will come and confess and apologize. Then we will talk about compensation.”
In September, Blackwater contractors protecting an embassy mission killed 17 Iraqis, including Abdul-Razzaq’s boy, and injured at least two dozen in a widely publicized incident in west Baghdad’s Nisoor Square. Blackwater officials have said their workers feared they were under attack; Iraqi officials and witnesses called it a massacre.
U.S. officials say the investigation of the shooting continues, though they have been tight-lipped about details. An FBI report is due this year. In April, the State Department renewed Blackwater’s contract for another year, a move that enraged many Iraqis affected by the killings.
Far from bringing justice and closure, the investigations underline the frictions between Americans and Iraqis that have plagued the five-year U.S. presence. The shooting and its aftermath show the deep disconnect between the American legal process and the traditional culture of Iraq, between the courtroom and the tribal diwan.
U.S. officials painstakingly examine evidence and laws while attempting to satisfy victims’ claims through cash compensation.
But traditional Arab society values honor and decorum above all. If a man kills or badly injures someone in an accident, both families convene a tribal summit. The perpetrator admits responsibility, commiserates with the victim, pays medical expenses and other compensation, all over glasses of tea in a tribal tent.
“Our system is so different from theirs,” said David Mack, a former U.S. diplomat who has served in American embassies in Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Tunisia and the United Arab Emirates. “An honor settlement has to be both financial and it has to have the right symbolism. We would never accept their way of doing things, and they don’t accept ours.”
Citing confidentiality requirements, U.S. officials declined to speak publicly about the Blackwater investigations. Iraqi victims are the only witnesses to the behind-the-scenes legal process who are willing to talk. Their accounts of the investigation jibed individually as well as with the typical narrative of U.S. criminal investigation.
Under U.S. military doctrine, rules of engagement allow U.S. soldiers and contractors in a combat zone to defend themselves if they fear they are under attack. The rules tighten and loosen as conditions on the ground shift. The Nisoor Square incident took place at the end of what had been one of the worst periods of violence in Iraq.
The Blackwater team says it was justified in firing to protect itself and the State Department officials it was guarding. Speaking before Congress, Blackwater owner Erik Prince said the team was doing its duty in the face of an onslaught, and he described the square as “a terrorist crime scene.”
Prince offended those who say they were simply going about their day’s chores.
Baraa Sadoon Ismail, 29, a father of two, was severely injured in the gunfire while driving to a relative’s house. Doctors told him he had 60 fragments of bullet lodged in his abdomen. He said he had undergone surgery to remove three pieces that threatened major organs.
He has met with eight committees of investigators so far, including twice with the FBI. Teams of three or four people would sit in a room with him. They would show him an aerial map on a table. They asked how and when and where the shooting started. Where was this victim? Where were you?
Several times he asked about his car, which was shot up in the incident. Investigators told him it was still needed for the investigation. They wanted to know whether he planned to ask for compensation. He was miffed.
“I want you to feel that Iraqi life is precious,” he said he told them.
Physician Haitham Rubaie doesn’t want money either. What he wants above all is justice for his wife, a doctor, and his son, a medical student, who died.
He rebuffed attempts to have a donation to an orphanage made in his family’s name. No amount of cash, no matter how well-intentioned, would sweep this under the rug.
“I don’t want any help from you,” he said he told them. “If you want to help the orphans, you give them money yourselves.”
If North Carolina-based Blackwater wanted to negotiate, it would have to apologize, publicly and loudly, he said.
“Let them apologize by saying those were innocent people,” Rubaie said. “Then we will be ready for understanding.”
Rubaie couldn’t believe that with the investigation still going on, the State Department would renew the Blackwater contract.
“Such decisions abuse us,” he said. “I appeal to the American ambassador: Just as he considers the safety of the American diplomats, he must also consider the safety of the Iraqi citizen in an equal way.”
Abdul-Razzaq remembered rushing his son to a hospital, and being told an hour later that he was dead. At a police station two days later, U.S. investigators apologized while emphasizing that Blackwater personnel worked for a private company, not the U.S. military, he said.
“I told them that if they didn’t fall under [the military’s] protection, I would have killed them with my teeth right here on the street,” he said.
They pulled out an aerial map of Nisoor Square.
Days went by. Nothing happened. A day before the Oct. 12 Eid al-Fitr holiday marking the end of the holy month of Ramadan, Abdul-Razzaq got a call from an Iraqi official asking him to meet with FBI investigators. He resisted. He was planning to visit his son’s grave.
But the official pressed him: The FBI had come all the way from the U.S. and would be there only a few days. Abdul-Razzaq relented.
They wanted distances and positions. They asked about his height, weight, skin and eye color, his job, his customers, his employees and number of children. They asked about exit wounds, how his son was injured. The rage welled up.
“It was a massacre,” Abdul-Razzaq said of the incident. “It is as if they came with the sole intent of eradicating all — women and children, they had to die.”
The investigators requested his car to examine bullet fragments. He towed it to an entrance of the Green Zone, the U.S.-protected administrative headquarters of Baghdad, and invited a CNN team to film the transfer.
A few weeks later, he was summoned to another meeting at the U.S. Embassy with Butenis. He said she asked whether he wanted to press charges or receive compensation, how much he wanted and what terms he demanded for a settlement.
“I told them I didn’t expect to be compensated a large sum,” he recalled. “No amount of money would return my son. I told them I would feel better only if I knew the people responsible for this crime are brought to trial.”
Two months ago, an intermediary on behalf of Blackwater again offered him money as a goodwill gesture, he said. Again he refused.
Two days later, he said, he met with a Blackwater representative. The man offered him $20,000, Abdul-Razzaq said, “not as compensation, but as a gift.” Abdul-Razzaq said he refused again.
“If you write out an apology for me and confess your crime,” he recalled saying, “I will give you a similar paper with my signature promising not to press charges.”
He said the official told him such an arrangement was impossible. His company’s lawyers in America would never sign off on such a proposal.
© 2008 The Los Angeles Times
“We would never accept their way of doing things…”
That would involve honor and justice.
‘Our way’ is ‘how much will it cost to make you go away?’
Like it or not, as long as we are involved over there, these private security companies are essential.
We need to pull out, let blackwater learn cultural consciousness while working for the iraqi government.
Progress, you’re quite funny. What on earth makes you think that after you pull out of Iraq that Blackwater would be allowed to stay? Unless of course they’d be in prisons…
I’m reminded of a great quote from Cromwell (led the English parliamentarians in a civil war that overthrew the King in the 1640s)
You have sat too long here (there) for any good you have been doind. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!
Some day our Prince will come?
No, I’m afraid this ‘Prince’ is only a toad in frogs’ clothing.
These Arabs will rely on their culture’s values by waiting 40 years to take revenge on Americans. Such a ‘gift’ we have left for our grandchildren.
No one ever answers my question: Why is the U.S. still in Iraq? They invaded Iraq because of “flawed intelligence” (hehe), so obviously it was all wrong from the beginning. So why don’t they GET OUT? Hasn’t enough damage been done to those poor people??
These Blackwater goons have plenty of time and money to work out, e.g. look at the guys’ big arms, and then gun down women and children. Real tough “heroes,” aren’t they. The pictures of them are offensive.
That is a picture of a little boy, only now he has big muscles and real bullets. He has no idea what he is doing. God help anybody who gets in his way.
Nietzsche: Excellent! Adolescent machismo gone wild. Frederich would have been proud of your statement.
So what do we do about people who live only to kill Americans? Do we let them? Or do we take the fight to them and keep it away from where we live?
Of course it is insensitive of us to ignore tribal decorum and compensate their survivors with an impersonal check in an envelope. But as a citizen of a capitalist culture I feel the same way about our own dead soldiers and security contractors. They volunteer to be goons for big oil, they get themselves killed, my taxes pay their salaries and death benefits, end of transaction. The Marines are no different than the clansmen they murder. If they want to get all sentimental about their own dead guys, fine. My regrets were included in my 2007 income tax return.
Willdr747, Oh puhleeze! Iraqis were and are no threat! They didn’t “live only to kill Americans.” Criminals whom you support took a totally unnecessary fight to innocent people, the Iraqis.
You obviously believe war criminal Bush’s stupid lie about taking the fight to them so we don’t have to fight them here. Either that or you know better and choose to go along with the lie in order to justify the huge war crime the U.S. has perpetrated on an innocent country!
Shirin Ebadi 2003 Nobel Peace Prize
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/04/8700/
….Never have the problems of any country been solved through war,” said Ebadi.
So, she said, the American people-and people all over the world-must make their voices heard and do whatever they can to promote justice to end this war and war altogether.
“The opportunities to be creative and make a difference in the world are endless. A person has only to decide what s/he wants to do for peace and then do it.”
lillulu,
WOW!!! How ’bout some decaf??? I asked questions to stimulate exchanges of information and got back some scathing remarks about “Criminals whom you support” and “war criminal Bush’s stupid lie”. This is why so many people will no longer engage progressives. They are attacked with vicious statements when attempting honest dialog.
Now, how about anyone else? Can you tell me what is an alternative to war that protects us from those who are willing to die to kill us? I really want to know how else we can deal with them in other ways. I oppose war! I disapprove strongly of murderers!! My own father was killed for less than $100 in 1970 by a criminal. I want to know about how we can possibly deal with those who are willing to die to kill us.
Hello? Is this thing on??? Anyone???
willdr747 - Explain how going to war with somebody makes them somehow less willing to die to kill us. If somebody waded into your country and shot up your neighborhood, wouldn’t you be willing to die to kill them? I don’t understand how your wars are protecting me. They are pissing people off for generations to come.
The alternative you are looking for is to go over to their house and give them some chocolate chip cookies. Same thing they would do to make you stop shooting at them. Unless of course you believe that foreigners are irredeemable, homicidal robots who kill Americans for no reason at all, in which case you should go back to school or check yourself into therapy.
voxclamantis,
Again with the personal attacks!! Does anyone on this site actually think rather than feel their way through life???
1. This is NOT MY WAR!! In case you didn’t notice, I stated clearly I OPPOSE war.
2. If someone attacks me because they hate my lifestyle, what is ok to do to defend myself?
3. Where did you get the idea that I “believe that foreigners are irredeemable, homicidal robots who kill Americans for no reason at all”??
To respond with such irrationality is typical of someone who knows deep down they have no real points to contribute, no substance to exchange with someone openminded enough to ask meaningful questions directly related to real life, not fairytails.
Anyone out there have any rational answers to my questions? Anyone at all??!!?
wildr747,
First, I”m sorry to hear about your father, may he rest in peace.
I’ll try and answer your three questions and you be the judge.
“So what do we do about people who live only to kill Americans Do we let them? Or do we take the fight to them and keep it away from where we live?”
#1. A false statement by the right-wing and their media lackeys for scaring the public. All people on this earth prefer to live to live. (that’s not redundant) Ignorance, blind belief, without questioning, and a certain amount of predjudice are factors in becoming a killer, and these symtoms are universal.
#2. Another false statement by the right-wing. If our country was attacked, of course we would “return fire”, but to invade weaker nations for empire and imperialistic ambitions is a war crime.
#3. Three times a charm. Third lie from the right-wing. They never attacked us, so no reason to fight them over there. We invaded their country. They aren’t going anywhere, but are fighting us because we invaded them. Self-defense from the American invader. Period!
Please read books by Michael Parenti, Howard Zinn, Chalmers Johnson, Gore Vidal, and Noam Chomsky with an open mind. Hopefully, you’ll see things in a different perspective.
Peace and Harmony
willdr747: Ronny Reagen attacked my lifestyle starting wayback. I quit my last “Job” in 1978 because “the man” was stealing my life (see “Letters at 3:AM”).
Should i have killed Ronny and his ilk..or should i take revenge now…
“He drew first, which lets me kill him” is TV pap. This bullshit excuse was not valid until the time of Homer and the plays of Hecuba, Ajax et. al. George Lucas’ “job” was to eradicate the “vietnam syndrome” from your culture. The reason YOU wear black is because Luke Starkiller is a “looser” .
Note: Vietnam is a country, not a war.
Note: Starkiller was in George’s first (eighth grade) script.
Note: “Job” is a guy that was tortured by authorities in Greek myths and Jewish and Christen myths. GET YOUR LESSONS!
Note: Shooting your neighbor for his having cussed you out is punished less than if you wear no pants. Try this.
LAquaker,
Huh?? What on earth are you talking about?? I am unable to follow any coherent points. Could you please elaborate??
peaceman,
Thank you!! While it’s clear that there is a huge chasm between us in terms of what we believe, this is a great starting point for a more rational, less emotionally charged discussion of real life. Can we please lose the pejorative labels and use more clinical terms, using more precise definitions?
Point #1:
There are people who, because of the Christian beliefs of many Americans, have vowed to convert to Islam or kill all who won’t espouse Islam. What is a decent, peaceful way to co-exist with someone who refuses to respect another persons’ spiritual beliefs?
Point #2:
What were the events of Sept. 11, 2001 but a direct attack on our country by another? I’m one of those people who don’t know all the answers, but do know enough history that when one sovereign entity attacks another, and the attacked country does nothing to defend itself, it does not survive long. Are you trying to tell me that the US should not stay in existence?
Point #3:
See point #2.
peaceman, it will take time, but I will find your suggested readings and do my level best to read with an open mind. Understand that while I strive to remain openminded, it does not mean it is the same as being emptyheaded!!
Also, many mistake acts of kindness as signs of weakness. This leads to attacks on perceived vulnerability.
willdr747,
I believe the whole point of the article above is to point out that Iraqis want to meet the perpetrators of these crimes against humanity face to face so that the perpetrators and the victims families can have DIALOGUE and find RESOLUTION. By this point, in the US military occupation of Iraq, all rational thinking people should see that violence only begets more violence. Our military is killing mostly innocent civilians caught in the crossfire between freedom fighters rejecting an illegal and unjustified foreign ocuppation and a broken US military supported by payed mercenaries.
It seems that the B**h Administration sees the Iraqis as obstacles in reaching its goals, if they wanted democracy they would promote dialogue instead of calling them terrorists…
BiziBv,
By using the term “crimes against humanity” you are presuming that if someone committed murder, they were able to do so on a scale that has been suppressed in all reports and in all blogs. How many people were murdered by these “civilian security forces”? These crimes against individuals should be punished with great urgency, proving to all that those who act without honor or regard for innocent life should be held accountable.
You started to make sense when you said that violence only begets more violence, then you lost me with the statement that this is “an illegal and unjustified foreign ocuppation”.
How many Iraqi men, women and children are documented to have been beaten, tortured, raped and killed by the former dictator of Iraq? Does anyone else find that this rises to the level of action?? With a coalition greater than any other, with more countries participating than any point ever in history, you would probably say it was also undertaken with total disregard for world opinion…..
How can dialogue take place with someone who refuses to respect your right to exist with spiritual beliefs that contradict theirs??
Anyone else willing to participate in a reasonable exchange of ideas with someone openminded but not emptyheaded?? Anyone at all???
willdr747 SAID: “If someone attacks me because they hate my lifestyle,”
LAquaker REBUTS: Ronny Reagen attacked my lifestyle starting wayback (BECAUSE)I quit my last “Job” in 1978, “the man” was stealing my life, see “Letters at 3:AM”(THE BOOK).
willdr747 SAID: “what is ok to do to defend myself?”
LAquaker REBUTS: Should i have killed Ronny and his ilk..or should i take revenge now…
“He drew first, which lets me kill him” is TV pap. [pap(q.v.)Meaning “over-simplified idea” first recorded 1548.]
LAquaker REBUTS willdr747’s belief system by showing the fraud of His country’s basic unexamined use of violence, revenge and lifestyle masquerading as something needing to be defended to the death:
“This bullshit excuse was not valid until the time of Homer and the plays of Hecuba, Ajax et. al.”
“George Lucas’ “job” was to eradicate the “vietnam syndrome” from your culture. The reason YOU wear black is because Luke Starkiller is a “looser” [he has no job].
Note: Vietnam is a country, not a war.
Note: Starkiller was in George’s first (eighth grade) script.
Note: “Job” is a guy that was tortured by authorities in Greek myths and Jewish and Christen myths. GET YOUR LESSONS!
Note: Shooting your neighbor for his having cussed you out is punished less than if you wear no pants. Try this.”
NOTE: when confronted with work, your head may hurt, like any under-used muscle. No pain, no gain.
For Wild747
Islam is no more a fanatical, homicidal religion than Christianity is. However, there are fanatics on the religious right of both faiths that are intolerant of others and would cheerfully see them dead.
Most Muslims are like anybody else in the world. They would like to raise their families in peace, provide a decent home with a roof that does not leak, food, drinkable water. They would like to have access to medicine and education. This is true, and equally unobtainable in many countries, including the United States.
Those still alive that remember life under Saddam say that life was much better then. All you had to do was keep your political opinions to yourself. They had food, water, sewage treatment, radio and television, literacy, excellent health care, good hospitals.
We took care of that. Saddam is dead, we’ve given them “freedom and democracy,” their cities are in ruins, no libraries, schools, sewage runs in the streets and contaminates drinking water. People take a chance on death to even try to go shopping. Arrogant foreigners stride through their streets, killing at random, and they have no recourse.
Think for a minute if the situation were reversed. Wouldn’t we be doing our best to drive the occupiers into the sea? Wouldn’t We the People terror bomb, shoot, kidnap and kill the occupiers and any quislings that helped them?
The jury is still out on 911. That report is about as truthful and accurate as the Warren Report was about Kennedy. Bush ordered his staff to find an excuse to go to war with Iraq long before 911.
The point of the above article is that We the Conquerers prove every day that we don’t care about the culture we are destroying, only that might makes right and if your family is butchered, we will pay on a graduated scale, take it or leave it and get out!
Sadly, we have become the most hated people on earth. One day the chickens will come home to roost and the empire will die. Unfortunately, many millions of innocents will die also, both here and abroad.
wildr747,
Point#1.
People of various religions were getting along before the US government started meddling in affairs of other countries. Have you heard right-wing Christian funDUMBentalist preachers talk about using violence against those practicing the Islamic faith?
Point#2.
How is it that Congress can hardly agree on most legislation and it takes forever to write a bill, but the anti-American, illegal Patriot Act was ready to be pushed through less than two months after the so-called 9/11 attacks. Some think it was prepared before Sept.11, 2001 by the PNAC group of gangsters who said we needed a “new Pearl Harbor.” Why would you wish that on your country?
Point#3.
Take your time, read some of the books by those authors and we’ll chat again.
It is quite sad to see the discussion devolve while the relevant subject, how Arab culture differs in terms of accepting compensation from American, goes uncommented upon in any depth. The salient point is that Arabs react quite badly to an unacknowledged wrong and literally pass on vendettas through the generations, and they are not too discriminating in terms of who worked for who. To the Iraqi’s who’s relatives were murdered by Blackwater mercenaries, the deed was done by the Americans…and all Americans are liable unless the wrong is redressed. Thus, to a revenge seeking relative who is honor bound to retaliate, a retort of “I had nothing to do with it,” won’t cut it. Which is too bad, for the scum at Blackwater deserves all the venom and mayhem the relatives of their murder victims can throw at them.
Willdr747, Where would you ethically draw the line for collateral damage? It is clear that the people driving this war are not the ones being hurt. This is an important question because some people believe it was a smart, calculated decision to turn Iraq into a war zone that would attract terrorist elements from around the region so that we could bring the war to them. It saddens me how the lives of so many innocents have been devalued, ruined or ended in the name of our own security. Sky
peaceman, LAquaker, BiziBV, Old Jeffersonian, Skytouch - Thank you for remaining engaged with Willdr747. I hope somebody called him a taxi, and that he made it home ok.
When in Rome, do as Rome does! People visiting the States are expected to obey the rules over there, so what’s the big deal for Americans to comply with Iraq’s laws and customs? In many ways it sounds more human and dignified then sending some ambulance-chaser with a check. This is the kind of arrogance that’s making the rest of the world sick of what was once considered a promising country. No matter the amount of tax-payers money that’s wasted in Iraq, the US will never ‘win’ this one. And don’t forget that people in the ME have long memories.
Dear Willdr747,
I think you should log on to townhall.com, and post your comments there, where you can have discussions with like-minded people, instead of insulting the intellectuals, liberals, and yes, elitists, on this website.
Sincerely,
Antoine, visiting the UK
Old Jeffersonian,
In reviewing theology, I’m unable to discover where in Christianity it’s taught that you have to either convert everyone or kill them, yet in Islam, it is a main point. We can be distracted by other points but this remains my question:
What is acceptable action to take when someone not only refuses to respect my spiritual beliefs but attacks me for them??
By the way, it is despicable that a “civilian security force” can get away with crimes just because there is no “governing authority”.
Anyone recognize that phrase: no “governing authority”??
BTW, if “Sadly, we have become the most hated people on earth” why are people literally dying to come here??
peaceman,
Your inflamatory remarks are what I have been hoping to avoid because it serves to create barriers to honest exchanges of ideas among openminded individuals. Are you telling me you are closeminded??
Curiosity has gotten the better of me:
What on earth is : “PNAC group of gangsters”??
NateW,
Thank you for reminding us of the topic. I wholeheartedly agree that there are indeed cultural differences between the US and Arabic populations. A commonality however is the concept of one admiting responsibility for ones’ actions before redress can begin. All those who seek true justice would agree however that an entire nation of people is not acountable for the actions of a relative handful of “civilian security forces” AKA privately paid soldiers.
Those who seek to paint the US as a nation of murderers show that ignorance and prejudice is not the sole purvue of right wing religious fanatics and left wing elitists.
Skytouch,
Great question!! The line is drawn at NONE!! No collateral damage is acceptable, but in any action of this kind it is sadly inevitable and must be dealt with in as culturally respectful and sensitive way possible.
People who love freedom know that it is never free. The tree of liberty must occasionally be watered with the blood of patriots.
voxclamantis,
Interesting that you choose to use insults instead of ideas to address issues. For the record, I do not partake of any conciousness altering chemicals, be it alcohol or anything else.
“People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.”
– Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
Har Davids,
You are spot on with your observation. When in another country one should respect the laws and culture, be held accountable for any irresponsible acts. What seems to be more important in this “news” article is that the entire US is bad and the only people who represent the country are the a55holes who shoot first and ask questions later.
There is what I believe to be a majority in the US who want freedom, justice and prosperity for the entire planet and who respect anothers’ right to enjoy their way of life in peace. Most US citizens oppose war but will accept the responsibility that comes with believing in certain things:
Bullies and thugs cannot be left unchecked. It only encourages others who “feel” they can dominate others by force–physical force as well as force of words. It matters not one whit whether you consider yourself left, right or other if you are a bully.
Those who defend freedom should be emulated not emasculated!!
Har Davids,
You are right: when travelling one should remain aware and respectful of the culture and rules in the area you’re travelling.
Questions:
Is painting an entire country based on the actions of some travellers considered a good practice where you live?
Is removing a despot responsible for initiating horrible attacks on his own people and invading countries around him considered “arrogance”?
If you believe that this is about taxpayers money and “winning”, you don’t know the hearts and minds of the freedom-loving people of the US.
I am suppressing an exasperated sigh at this point.
Willdr747:
(re: response to old jeffersonian and other posts)
Point 1 on Islam:
In reviewing theology, I believe that you will find practical (and no scripture-based) evidence of the Christian mission to obliterate heretics and unbelievers in widespread massacres committed “in God’s name” during the Crusades of the middle ages. Or during the Spanish Inquisition or especially during the colonization of the South American continent during which genocide was perpetrated over and again against the aboriginal peoples with the justification being that they would not convert to christianity and were therefore inhuman. Again, there is no scripture to support this. Nor are there passages in the Koran that explicitly instruct believers “to either convert everyone or kill them”. It is extremely insulting and ignorant for you to state that this is the “main point” of Islam.
This is a religion that is the cultural centrepoint of millions of PEACEFUL communities across the globe and that fact needs to be understood and respected. Exaggerated and negative generalizations such as those you have just made get in the way of cultural understanding, dialogue, and tolerance of religious and cultural differences, especially in the United States.
Regardless of the fact that you are opposed to the war, your rhetoric re: Islam is placing you in a position where you are espousing the same beliefs that have led to the wholesale killing, detention, and torture of innocent Muslims the world over. You must understand that perversion of either religious text and its beliefs remains the responsibility of religious fanatics and extremists, NOT with the religion itself or with ALL of its followers as a whole.
It is especially important here not to place Christianity or any other religion on a pedestal in the process of denigrating Islam. The same violent extremism has occurred within the context of virtually all major religions throughout history. Let’s not pretend that this is some sort of abhorrent suprise unique to Islam that the world has not seen before. Religion, like political power, has been used abusively by fanatics to persecute people for hundreds of years. This is not to say that this is OK, rather, I am making this point to try and pull you out of the closed reality that you and many other Westerners live in at this point, treating the current phenomenon of Islamic extremism as an isolated incident without looking more closely at the modern (1800 forward) historical context surrounding it (and events much like it, see previous comments in paragraph 1).
Point 2: The acceptable action to take when someone does not respect your religious beliefs but attacks your for them is NOT to perpetuate the problem by engaging in the same behaviour (at which point you become exactly like those who have attacked you). Violence begets violence and this approach solves nothing.
The solution is:
a) To thoroughly understand the actions taken against you. When I say this I mean that when most educated people examine closely the rise of Islamic fundamentalism they do not find Islam itself as the cause, but poverty, violence and inequity among nations that, incidentally, have been plunged into such state as a direct result of actions engaged in by the United States and other Western powers. (Reading recommendation: “Taliban” by Ahmed Rashid) Afghanistan is the perfect example of this and is a nation which has been torn apart by one war after the other for decades, treated as a pawn by the West (in the Cold war and now in the War on Terror) and plunged into poverty because the western world chose to sit, watch, and pour guns and grenades into the country rather than focusing on infrastructure, hospitals, education, and humanitarian assistance. The obvious result is that the sole remaining pillar of organisation and moral order (Islam) following the obliteration of the state and community was used by the Taliban, Al Quaeda and the mujahedeen to seize power and rally thousands of suffering and disillusioned people with no better option available.
The point here is that it is poverty and violence that has created the monster that is global terrorism, NOT ISLAM!!! Islam is instead perverted by various groups and used as a hook and a line to tow extreme theories of massacre, violence and destruction. It is no coincidence that Islamic extremism takes hold in areas that have been plunged into poverty and which endure violence on a regular basis, such as Sudan, Afghanistan, Northern Pakistan, and now Iraq (note that al-quaeda was unable to recruit successfully in Iraq until AFTER it had been bombed to bits by the United States).
b) Following the above, engage in actions that solve the issues underlying extremism - community building, dialogue [AS IN PUBLIC APOLOGIES FOR THE ATROCITIES COMMITTED ABOVE,among others], increasing women’s rights, providing education and healthcare, fighting poverty and giving people BETTER OPTIONS so that they are not disillusioned and desperate to the point where they think guns and guerrila wars are the answer. Human life needs to be respected and valued over military and political objectives, and policies should be based on this simple fact.
c) States (and the people who support their policies) need to STOP engaging in the selfish and violent behaviour detailed in (a). Criminal and unprovoked wars such as this one in Iraq serve as the perfect example to show how the United States (for one) creates its own enemies in such a manner. Any and everyone with any semblance of a conscience should be actively protesting and pushing for an end to policies - note both economic AND military - that perpetuate poverty and/or violence in other nations. Period. That is the cause of this and it needs to be stopped at its root.
Finally, regarding the question “it is despicable that a “civilian security force” can get away with crimes just because there is no “governing authority”:
Let me first point out that this is a gross oversimplification with some major logical flaws.
Firstly, Blackwater’s crimes are not despicable “just because” they have gotten away with it. These are crimes that are so atrocious that they are despicable in and of themselves regardless of the judicial consequences or lack thereof.
Secondly, the absence of a governing authority in Iraq, though it may have contributed to the fact that Blackwater perpetrators have not been brought to justice, is NOT AN EXCUSE for not punishing these murderers as needed. It is the primary responsibility of the government of origin (THE UNITED STATES) to prosecute those american citizens who commit crimes in foreign territory, ESPECIALLY when they are assisting an American occupying force as part of an AMERICAN MISSION to stabilize the country and are in the business of providing security for AMERICAN CITIZENS. This has been the policy of the United States for as long as I can possibly remember and there is no reason why the responsibility to bring these murderers to justice should fall solely on the shoulders of the Iraqi government. This is yet another example of the Bush admin corruptly betraying the US’s own long-standing state policies. Though the Iraqi government has every right to throw these assholes in jail, it is the United States who has brought them there and it is therefore the United States who should be undertaking the (apparently burdensome) process of condemning them all to life in prison without parole and prosecute them accordingly for war crimes and murder.
Regarding the emphasis you have placed on “no governing authority”: The absence of an effective governing authority in Iraq is directly related to the US Military and the Bush administrations efforts to undermine the installation of a democratic government and to rob the current government of any major powers whatsoever. Why? Because to do so would jeopardize the ability of the US Military and private contractors such as Blackwater to move, operate (and kill) at will within Iraq. This would also jeopardize the economic monopoly that US corporations currently hold in Iraq because, of course, an effective Iraqi government would naturally attempt to regain sovereignty over economic resources and to stabilize the country (i.e. by removing the major destabilizing factor which is private contractors and the US military presence).
willdr747, you keep treating these issues as cut-and-dry and they are certainly not. They are much more complicated and deserve to be considered as such. It is simply not that easy to set up a governing authority in Iraq when the occupying authority is constantly working against that goal.
And on your last point, you are once again over-simplifying things. The idea that Americans have become “the most hated people on earth” is ENTIRELY SEPARATE from the question of why immigrants seek to move to the United States. No matter how hated US policies have become, and no matter how much democracy, human rights, and the standard of living are declining in that country, it still maintains a standard of living, jobs and educational opportunities that far surpass what you find in numerous countries in the developing world. I live and do humanitarian work across Africa, I grew up on the continent, I am African and I for one can attest to that.
It is extremely important not to confuse the issues here and blame current and prospective immigrants to the United States for seeking a better life by blurring their intentions with those of the violent extremists who generally have no desire whatsoever to settle in the country that is the seed of their hatred.
Not all “foreigners” are the same, remember?
willdr,
I’m not sure you are a voice of reason or rational discussion on this website. You are quick to call others on their use of inflammatory terminology, but use the same yourself.
You said: “So what do we do about people who live only to kill Americans?” and “Can you tell me what is an alternative to war that protects us from those who are willing to die to kill us?”
How can you be so confident that these statements are true? If they are true, then any Iraqi or Muslim who rephrases these sentences from her or his perspective must also be telling the truth: ‘So what do we do about people who live only to kill Iraqis and Muslims?’ ‘Can you tell me what is an alternative to war that protects us from those who are willing to die to kill us, who invade us to take or destroy all we have?’
A few people did fairly patiently respond to you at first, but the rhetoric of your responses to them also got increasingly aggressive–especially since the meaning of your words suggest that the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim. Therefore, I have trouble seeing that you really are here to engage in honest dialog.
As to this point: “I’m unable to discover where in Christianity it’s taught that you have to either convert everyone or kill them, yet in Islam, it is a main point.” There are ample examples of God-mandated genocide in the Old Testament (e.g. Joshua 11:11,20; I Samuel 15:3) and punishment of those Israelites that did not follow that mandate. Therefore, we should expect Muslims to be as good at taking things out of context in the Bible as we are at taking things out of context in the Koran.
Nietzsche - your comment was touching. What happens to our little boys?
I do not get this article. Is it supposed to an Arab tribal thing to be insulted when someone offers you “cash compensation” to after killing your loved one? Does Blackwater now represent the totality of American culture?
One of my students told me that her son insisted on going to sign up for the army against her wishes. She and her husband went with him to the recruiting station. She was talking about her opposition to the idea in front of the recruiting officer. The officer told her not to worry, if the son was killed she would get $250,000. The whole family was highly insulted and felt that they were being told that only because they were from Mexico and their lives were not worth much. The son did not join.
jclientelle: Ditto. It is degrading and insulting for ANYONE to even remotely consider that a cash payout is sufficient justice or compensation for the murder of another human life. It shows the lack of respect for the value of human life and the deification of money as superior to such among the military-industrial establishment.
This is not just an Arab thing, hence the long-used term “blood money”
BetheChange - Absolutely admirable post, and perhaps more than Willdr747 will be able to assimilate. I hope you get a wider reading of your points, which are vastly more thoughtful and thoroughgoing than my flippancies. I guess when I detect that I am confronting a common species of entrenched mentality I decline to waste my breath, but you have used the occasion to make an eloquent statement that should stand as a primer for anybody wishing to enter into real debate about these things.
shokulan - I think you speak for most of us, certainly for me. I am impressed by the patient perseverance with with you and others above chip away at the daunting wall of ignorance and ill will that perennially returns to nullify the advance of peace and understanding. Best to you.
voxclamantis:
Thou speaks my mind.