Are We Electing a President, or a Pastor in Chief?
The Republican presidential race seems more like a competition for national pastor-in-chief than chief executive. During one recent debate, candidates were asked if they believe every word of the Bible. Not one politician dismissed the question as irrelevant or out of bounds. Earlier in the year, John McCain asserted that the Constitution established the United States as a Christian nation (despite the fact that the words “Christian” and “God” appear a grand total of zero times in the nation’s founding document). The supposedly socially liberal Rudy Giuliani proudly accepted an endorsement from Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson, the televangelist who has claimed that some Christian denominations embody the spirit of the Antichrist, and agreed with Jerry Falwell that gays and lesbians caused the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
As the Iowa caucuses approach, Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney are fighting over which one has the best religious credentials. Huckabee, an ordained Baptist minister who has surged to top of the heap in Iowa, has run one ad invoking his status as a “Christian leader” as a reason to vote for him. In another ad, released for Christmas, he tells voters that what really matters at this time of year is “celebrating the birth of Christ.” Elsewhere, he has explained that “faith doesn’t just influence me, it really defines me. I don’t have to wake up every day wondering “what do I need to believe?” The implication is that people who are not sufficiently faithful are morally adrift, unable to string together coherent, consistent beliefs from one day to the next.
Mitt Romney gave a recent speech meant to address concerns about his Mormon faith. The speech was an attempt to demonstrate that Romney, like Huckabee, sees religion as central to his presidential campaign. Romney said that he believes “Jesus Christ is the son of God and the Savior of mankind” and declared that his oath of office would be his “highest promise to God”. Perhaps some evangelical voters will find these statements comforting. They shouldn’t. Whether you’re religious or not, the marriage of religion and politics is cause for concern.
For one thing, with religion a central part of the presidential campaign, it is only natural that candidates will be asked specific questions about their beliefs. That is disturbing; no one should have to answer questions like “does your religion teach that Satan and Christ are brothers?” (a question Huckabee has raised about Romney) or “how would your church’s doctrine about the apocalypse influence your Middle East policy?”
Both Romney and Huckabee have tried to dodge questions about their specific beliefs. But the cat is already out of the bag. Since these men have made faith a central part of their pitch, it is too late for them to declare that details of precisely what they believe are off limits. It is ludicrous for Huckabee to put forth his religious beliefs as a credential, question Romney’s beliefs, and then refuse to answer a question about whether creationism should be taught in public schools.
Romney, for his part, says he won’t publicly delve into Mormon doctrine because, “to do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution.” Too late for that Mitt. We already have a religious test. That’s why Romney was forced to give a speech aimed at making his Mormon faith less scary to voters-there is a question as to whether Romney is himself a real Christian, whether he meets the de facto religious test applied to all presidential candidates.
In order to be a serious candidate, in either party, one must be a Christian, of some denomination that doesn’t seem too weird to evangelical voters. It is of course unfathomable to imagine a Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, or agnostic becoming president (in fact, a whisper campaign that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim, helpfully highlighted by the Washington Post on its front page a few weeks ago, depends on the reality that actually being a Muslim would disqualify someone from running for president in 2008).
In his speech pleading with voters not to dismiss him because he is a Mormon, Romney argued that “the notion of the separation of church and state has been taken by some well beyond its original meaning. They seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgement of God. Religion is seen as merely a private affair with no place in public life.” Romney’s argument is completely baseless - no serious candidate for the presidency, no serious leader in either party, would dare to suggest that religion has no place in public life. No mainstream politician could say what Thomas Jefferson said in 1814, that “our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to God alone. I inquire after no man’s, and trouble none with mine.” If this principle applied to modern presidential politics, there would have be no need for Romney, or anyone else, to answer questions about his or her faith.
Chris Edelson is a lawyer and frequently writes about politics and legal issues. His writing has appeared in The Philadelphia Inquirer, Metroland (Albany, NY) and at commondreams.org.
Neither! You are electing a ‘chosen one’ — chosen, that is, by the privileged establishment to carry out their agenda. And, if you hold some ridiculous notion that differing party colors displayed by the candidates during that pseudo-democratic process actually differentiate them in any important repect, you’re just buying the technicolor delusion as intended by those who make the real decisions.
christian christian christian…..not enough that we’re not inundated on the street by nutty preachers, handed tracts to, “evangelized” or told arrogantly by a christian friend, parent, etc, what to do with our bodies, our lives, our minds, but we also have to put up with this from our government, our leaders. then when we oppose this, these same folks claim “persecution”. the idea of separation of church and state is only a fairy tale here. land of the free my a$$.
Oh come on. Why do you folks want to make things complicated for us simple Americans?
We want to know which God our president bows to. We want to know what the president thinks about those queers and whether he’s going to allow aborting FETUSES..oops I meant babies? That’s all we can manage to think about in between our Sunday church visits and all those football, basketball, hockey, baseball games + reality tv, soaps, dramas, Paris’ chihuahua, Anna’s baby daddy…Uhhh!! I also have to put food “on my family” while doing all the above. Give me a break!
Besides I also have to keep an eye out if he chooses to make friends with the people of the Moon God!
Something like 75% of Joe Public believes in creation while around 30% believe in evolution. Ironically, they ALL complain about the sorry state of education in the US.
My opinion is that these f*^cking morons are so desperate to get this country ‘back on track’ that they are resorting to the only thing they have left to them in their little intellects - this idea of religious faith - I think it is disgusting.
It’s like, things are so f -ed up at this point that the best they can do is hope God will straighten it out.
Absolute ignorance and defeatist attitudes.
Why not just go bury your head in the sand and count to 100. When you come back up, everything will be okay again!
RIGHT, lots of luck there!
This is a desperate attempt from folks that can’t come up with any other solutions (how about tolerance, understanding, uh, even acceptance of other’s views . . . duh)to cling to the ole standby–> religion. That is as long as it’s the correct one, Christian religion, of course. Disgusting. I hate Americans sometimes.
The repugs have to focus on “faith” because by any degree of rationality, they are, at best, incompetant fascist criminals.
‘no one should have to answer questions like “does your religion teach that Satan and Christ are brothers?” (a question Huckabee has raised about Romney) or “how would your church’s doctrine about the apocalypse influence your Middle East policy?”’.
The first question is entirely irrelevant to a presidential debate, but the second one most certainly isn’t. A candidate’s religious beliefs do have real-world ramifications, and one is perfectly justified in asking whether they would start an apocalypse because they believe that God told them to.
This reminds me of all the hand wringing following the 2000/2004 elections that resulted in the book- “What’s The Matter With Kansas?”. The MSM drunken plurality vote against their own best interests time and time again. The bloody battle cry from the conservative base echoing over the last seven years has been “I just wanted someone I could have a beer with!”. They got their beer man, albeit a brain damaged shell of the man they were looking for.
The fundie madness among the current GOP crowd is a desperate attempt to hold the base together since they have absolutely nothing else to run on.
i figure what your average everyday faith or atheism is or isn’t is like a 50 50 proposition that you’ll end up a fool. Coming at it from either way. What that makes the actual odds of not coming up a fool is maybe something around 0, using mathematical deductive reasoning. or none, if you actually think about it.
Otherwise, sure. I guess. I guess you could think of it as divine comedy? try. . .it’s easy to do.
We are electing a man chosen by God to lead us out of the quagmire into which the last man chosen by God led us.
LOL…….this is too funny. Actually, when you stop and think about it, it’s reprehensible that the sly politicians use and exploit Christianity to the extreme. I’m tired of hearing them talk about religion. Why don’t they become pastors instead, if they’re so enthusiastic about religion. What does it say about Christianity when the Christian country that has the world’s most powerful military drops bombs on innocent civilians, including children, in a country that was and is no threat?
If this is a Christian nation as John McCain says, I guess everyone else should leave; that includes Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Baha’i,Jainism, Shinto, Sikhism, Rastafari, Paganism, and others. They should all be given refugee status in other countries since they’re not welcome in the USA.
Religion is actually very far removed from everything we do daily.
And belief is a powerful thing. so let us not believe in religion.
If you do, everything you do everyday is going to be little askew. Let us just believe in something that helps us believe in ourselves, that does not have to proselytized to anyone else.
Let us say, for example, that you drive a really nice car. One day, due to no fault of yours, another car lands on top of yours from across the median(true story) and your innards are all over the street. You still have that fish stuck on your car’s ass.
Or, for example, you have no idea about the progress in the scientific community, or how people in another country live. The entire planet is looking through its eyes, and does not know what a small portion of what really exists they are seeing. It is night in France and a solar flare burns the earth’s atmosphere. Chartres is still standing
That is the attitude of fundamentalists.
The world is going to what they might call hell.
“But Christ” - or the God of your choice.
“…no one should have to answer questions like “does your religion teach that Satan and Christ are brothers?” … or “how would your church’s doctrine about the apocalypse influence your Middle East policy?”…”
I agree. So why does the MSM keep asking such stupid and irrelevant questions? I couldn’t care less about the religious faith of a candidate for public office. It seems ironic to me that the U.S. is the *only* democracy (yes, I know — that’s an open question, too) that has the separation of church and state enshrined in its constitution, yet religion plays a bigger part in American politics than any other non-theocratic government. Go figure.
Can we talk about something important now?
This entire piece is nonsense.
Its premise is that YOU are electing a president.
YOU do not elect anyone.
The multinationals BUY the government they want.
I agree with 2orangey4crows: it certainly is of importance to me how a candidate’s beliefs about the “end time” would influence his Middle Eastern policy. We already overlooked that apocalyptic vision prevalent among many members of the administration and the Pentagon, and look where it has got us. Keeping religion out of the discussion is not the answer. Evaluating a candidate’s beliefs in connection with his practice and with those of his voter base, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. “Beware the false prophets, for by their fruits ye shall know them.”
could we have maybe a female prophet next? the last couple prophets messed things up. Can we elect one? Or are the god damned prophets just chosen for us?
Mr. McCain, so is the U.S. similar to Israel in that Israel is a Jewish state — and the United States is a Christian state? Only people of one specific religion are welcome?
“Earlier in the year, John McCain asserted that the Constitution established the United States as a Christian nation (despite the fact that the words “Christian” and “God” appear a grand total of zero times in the nation’s founding document).”
This is unsurprising. I gave a talk at a local UU church last spring on the rise of Christian Nationalism and the potential threats to separation of religion and government. After the talk, a woman from the audience (who as it turned out had a PhD in something) challenged me on my comment that the US Constitution is a secular document. “What about the phrase ‘endowed by our Creator’?” she kept asking. She would not accept that this line was from the Declaration of Independence, and not the Constitution, until someone else managed to find a copy of both online using their laptop. Even after she had seen the proof with her own eyes, she still insisted that the Constitution was explicitly Christian (not even merely religious, but specifically Christian). The punchline was that this woman was an atheist with a PhD, and not an ignorant fundie.
If our educated atheists argue that the Constitution is rooted in the Christian religion, we’ve jumped one significant shark.
i, for one, think its perhaps the most valuable asset in a president…
the ability to suspend rational, critical thought and replace it with hope and faith based on what god said in our conversation last night.
oh, wait… i forgot…
we’ve had about 8 years of that now.
didn’t work out so well.
response to: ‘no one should have to answer questions like “does your religion teach that Satan and Christ are brothers?” (a question Huckabee has raised about Romney) or “how would your church’s doctrine about the apocalypse influence your Middle East policy?”’.
The first question is entirely irrelevant to a presidential debate, but the second one most certainly isn’t. A candidate’s religious beliefs do have real-world ramifications, and one is perfectly justified in asking whether they would start an apocalypse because they believe that God told them to.
—
you’re right 2orangey4crows (and person who agreed with 2orangey4crows)–that was a sloppy 2nd example I gave–your point is correct Apologies.
“No one should have to answer questions like “does your religion teach that Satan and Christ are brothers?” (a question Huckabee has raised about Romney) or “how would your church’s doctrine about the apocalypse influence your Middle East policy?”
This had been addressed above, but I thought I would add my two cents. Other than involving religious doctrines, these questions are quite different, and one is far more relevant to a president’s job than the other.
The former question is purely about what we could call “individual religion,” i.e., the particular beliefs that a person holds about the nature of God, faith, etc. This sort of question is definitely off-limits, because its only purpose is to see how a candidate’s beliefs fare vis-a-vis the individual religion of other candidates and of the voters.
The latter question (interestingly a question that never actually gets asked when probing into politicians’ religiosity) could be VERY relevant, however. In other words, how do your privately held beliefs impact the actual policies you will implement? IMO that is incredibly relevant, unlike doctrinal questions regarding the familial relationship between Yeshua and Lucifer. After all, we crap our collective pants at the thought that “Islamic fundamentalists” might gain weapons greater than Kalishnikovs, and one could argue that this is rightly so. SO why shouldn’t we want to make sure that the person in charge of the LARGEST ARSENAL OF WMDs in the world isn’t a militant fundamentalist whose religion indicates that there will be an imminent conflagration in the Middle East, a conflagration which our arsenal will help ignite?
This holiday season I am going to pray in my obscure way that more and more people start to relate to themselves as human beings living in a world with causes and consequences.
I will pray people everywhere quit imagining themselves as grandiose actors in some drawn out, unrealistic system of symbolism. That they see that when people are angry or suffering, there are always causes of their anger and suffering. That this is true for every person in the world, no matter what side of what you have pledged allegiance to.
It would be fine if religious people thought of religion as poetry. If they knew how to read — I mean if they knew how, really, to read. If that was the case people would not be so dominated, mystified, frightened and manipulated by language.
Religious fundamentalists are in my opinion, generally not literate enough to think analytically about reading. They act as if they just discovered how to read words on a page a few days ago and it’s transfixed and frightened them. Like a child you tell a bedtime story to, making them the hero and central figure in some grand fantasy.
I do think people have a need to connect with each other in a higher manner. I believe the root of the word religion is re-lige, to reconnect.
So I hope this holiday season in the U.S. and elsewhere, even if it is not a holiday season there, that people connect with others as human beings first and foremost.
amen
Okay, on second thought (and after reading other responses) I’d like to clarify my earlier comment re ‘irrelevant questions’ such as: “how would your church’s doctrine about the apocalypse influence your Middle East policy?”
Did anyone ask Lincoln, “how would your church’s doctrine about the apocalypse influence your policy about the civil war?” or Roosevelt, “how would your church’s doctrine about the apocalypse influence your policy about World War II?” Sounds silly and irrelevant, doesn’t it?
I would further suggest that any man/woman whose answer to the above question is anything other than “My church’s doctrine about any issue wouldn’t influence my policy about anything” is unfit to serve. We are, after all, electing a secular government leader, not a religious one.
The premise “to be a man of faith” is itself quite obscure. It’s almost as cued into framework as the lines used by Republicans to connote racism, stealth. Those “in the faith club” see “god” as the sky’s big bad boy, always there as a rationale (and convenient validation) for killing members of another team. The primitive level of conjecture would be funny if it were not so tragic, if the nation did not face a real possibility of sliding down a precipice into Christian theology, a new take on an old demonic practice of subjugating people by making elegant use of “the big lie.” I really feel that our times have become surreal… that all the Republicans are competing in this religious version of a beauty contest, it’s all about posturing belief in some legend, and meanwhile nature is burning, people are dying in a war based on fixed cause(s), and our economy is held up by the financial equivalent of an army of bandaids.
The invisible space daddy figures prominently in politricks right now because the ruling class has something very important to them in common with those who share the invisible space daddy delusion.
The ruling class recognizes that the oil is running out and is desperate to establish sole control over it. It’s the oil that fuels their wealth building machines.
The crazy spooky spy types who run the three letter agencies recognize that the US military is dependent upon oil.
Both the ruling class and the spooky spy types recognize that the thing we now know as American society will collapse without oil to power it. Because running out of oil is inevitable, the collapse of our society is inevitable — but if we control the last of the oil, we can outlast everyone else, maybe be not quite so bad off so quickly as everyone else.
The invisible space daddy worshipers, at least the evangelical and even more radical dominionist varieties of them, are eager for their armageddon and just on general principle want to go forth and slay philistines as their space daddy commanded in his fairy tale book. They know that slaying philistines will get them invited over for cake and ice cream at space daddy’s house forever and ever amen.
The philistines are audacious enough to be born on land that’s inconveniently situated above the largest known petroleum deposits on Earth. It’s difficult to establish sole control of the mineral resources of a foreign country, so the obvious answer is to “annex” it. Without the space daddy angle, you’d find maybe a few thousand of us superior, exceptional Americans who’d go along with killing people to take their resources away. With the space daddy angle you have millions who are more than eager to send their terribly misguided children to far away places to slay philistines.
All you have to do is keep those space daddy worshipers afraid of the philistines and they’ll do anything you ask. Go forth and slay the philistines because they hate you, they hate your space daddy, and they want to rape your children. Surrender your civil rights because the philistines hate you, they hate your space daddy, and they want to rape your children. Take space daddy out of the equation and suddenly everyone on Earth is just human beings just like us, and we won’t believe that they want to kill us and rape our children. People like us don’t do that kind of stuff.
Unless space daddy tells us to.
JBPM,
Being educated (say a PhD) and being open minded/rational do not necessarily go hand in hand. I think that woman’s attitude would be different than the majority of atheists. Certainly the ones that I know.
The Jefferson Memorial has this quote:
“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”
I’ve actually seen a televangelist use this as “proof” that Jefferson, and by extension the Constitution, was Christian in nature. The diametrically opposed truth is that quote (from a letter to Benjamin Rush in 1800) was lamenting how the Episcopalians were doing a smear campaign (anonymous political flyers - Karl Rove’s predecessors!) against Jefferson’s run for the presidency. And the “tyranny over the mind of man” refers to the overbearing control/influence of the Church. But pointing it out to the fundies, even sending copies of the entire letter, does nothing. Jefferson was anything but a fundamentalist Christian, and that is not based upon erstwhile speculation. The man made his feelings clear in dozens - maybe even a few hundred - letters and other writings. Some of them highlighted here: http://nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm
And don’t get me started on the Constitution. That document was “sold”/explained in detail in 85 essays before it was adopted. Those are the Federalist Papers, and it elaborates on many of the problems we have today (including impeaching the President to stop a coverup - #69 http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed69.htm ), corruption of the media, political infighting, you name it.
As to this topic, I find it sad that the (truly worthy) teachings of Jesus have been misused by those in power to distract/subjugate the poor majority over and over again. Heck, go back 1000 years to England & Europe. The rich nobles own everything. Peasants are getting a little fed up? No problem. Fire up religion and patriotism! Maybe go on a crusade against the Muslims in the Middle East. History repeats itself.
You can lead a fundie to history, but you can’t make them think.
JPBM,
FYI, Ph.D. stands for “piled higher and deeper”
Religion was a tool, is a tool and will be a tool for the ruling elite to control and manipulate the masses. Jesus said pay to Ceaser what’s Ceasears and to God what’s Gods, in other words, the two shouldn’t be mixed. He also said pray in secret. Today religion is attached to one’s ego, pure and simple that is what it is. There is no Love. See Americans think they are better than God, that’s why the (Christian) religion is getting deformed and mutated to conform to American policy and desires. What you have is a scary demon in the guise of “conservative religion” Let me tell you something if where they are is Heaven, I’d rather be in Hell, at least Love will be there because we are all suffering together. Where is the Love?
Have you ever noticed that the most “religious” people are also the most intolerant?
Think of Bush. He is so rigid, as befits a “dry drunk.” Throughout my life, I have noticed that the people I meet who profess to be religious are often the people I would least want around me if I were in real trouble. Talk about intolerance. I was brought up Catholic, but I can’t think of a time when I thought the Catholic church was a refuge for me. No, I was chastised for not going to church every Sunday. I was married in a Catholic ceremony but was not given a mass because the priest decided it would be hypocritical because I didn’t go to church regularly. Maybe it was. I know I only got married in the church because I knew my extremely religious parents would have been upset had I not.
Mary
Have you ever noticed that the most “religious people are also the most intolerant? Iv’e noticed the people on this blog are very intolerant also. Don’t just blame Christians for intolerance! Bush is not a Christian! He may think he is a Christian. A Christian is someone who follows Christ. Not someone who leads a country into war for their resources! Again Bush is not a Christian! What part of Prince of Peace doesn’t he get. Also turn down the anti-christian rhetoric. These jerks that call themselves Christians and are not will be judged by the same God they claim to serve. And so will all of us!
Honestly dudley, I’m not intolerant. Being tolerant doesn’t mean withholding my opinion. Don’t confuse having an opinion with being intolerant just because you’re not in agreement with the opinion.
That said, I really don’t think the same God is going to judge me as whatever you are talking about!
If somebody is electing a person based on their religious views and how their religious beliefs would influence their foreign policy, then it seems to me you’re talking about a theocracy rather than a democracy. Foreign policy ought to be based on our national interests. And these interests should be based on reality and not some belief system.
When presented with facts, people can make decisions based on those facts. When we make decisions based on faith, we come up with a faith-based decision making progress. One’s spiritual beliefs are something personal and should not forced on those who follow a different system of beliefs. That’s why we need to keep religion and politics separated.
We’ve already had seven years of faith-based decision making. Is the world or our country any better off because of this situation?
I don’t think we’re electing a pastor so much as a functional god. Most people see things in simplistic dualistic terms. We have an axis of evil toward which we’ll piss away our efforts, tax dollars, the truth and perhaps the future itself. To balance evil, you need ultimate good. If Bin Laden was the perennial devil incarnate, we’re looking to elect a Christ figure.
Bin Laden wanted….well, what exactly was he supposed to have wanted again? Even simplistic Hollywood storylines have a better set-up for the villian. He wants to take over an island, control the drug trade, etc. James Bond movies or Clive Cussler books have the megalomaniac villain down pretty well. So what exactly did Bin Laden want to accomplish?
And what exactly do we want again?
Please Lord, deliver us from those that presume to speak in your name.
Bob Marley’s eldest son, David (Ziggy) Marley sums up my opinion on the subject….
Ziggy Marley - Love Is My Religion lyrics
Love is my religion, Love is my religion, Love is my religion
I’ll take you to the temple tonight
All my days I’ve been searching, to find out what this life is worth
through the books and bibles of time I’ve made up my mind
I don’t condemn, I don’t convert, this is a calling have you heard
bring all the lovers to the fold, cause no one is gonna lose their soul
Love is my religion, Love is my religion, Love is my religion
hey you can take it or leave it, and you don’t have to believe it
I don’t want to fight, hey let’s go fly a kite
there’s nothing that we can’t cure, and I’ll keep you in my arms for sure
so don’t let nobody stop us, free spirits have to soar
with you I share the gift, the gift that we now know oh oh oh
( Chorus )
Well I’m done searching now, I found out what this life is worth
not in the books that I find, but by searching my mind
I don’t condemn, I don’t convert
this is the calling have you heard, bring all the lovers to the fold
no one is gonna lose their soul
( Chorus )
Divine right of kings . . . I think that is the aim of the current occupant of the white house. All who support him and his minions are helping to bring about the president for life by appointment as a permanent part of our government. As it is, the ruling class — and believe me there is a class in the world who rule — largely control the fates of most of the rest of the planet. We are the serfs, held in place by our obligations to pay the mortgages, credit card debt, student loans, car payments, etc, etc — the notes that our ruling class hold. It is our folly that we have placed ourselves into the subservient position, but there you are . . . I owe, I owe. It’s off to work I go….
The reason we are burdened down with all this religious jargon mixed up with our government is that Carter and Reagan started putting it into their speeches and then Jerry Falwell and Pat Robinson got all their followers whipped up into a frenzy about this godless country. Karl Rove may be a rotten person, but he spotted a good thing when he saw it and used it to the max to get all the fundamentalists mixed up with conservatives and that was all it took to get control. Of course a little voter supression and election fraud helped to get the job done and all that was left was for the Supreme court to appoint the Christion Bush.
Consequently, the fundamentalists are happy getting screwed, and the greedy capitalists and crooks are happy to do it.
I’m not interested in whether Jesus & Satan are brothers. I’m more interested in whether Mike & Mitt are.
I would like to ask the Americans here, how many people they really think believe in Creationism? Ezeflyer said 75%, I thought it was around 40%, which is still a figure which startles and scares me. If it is really that easy to brainwash people in the States, into totally believing something so flawed as Creationism, then it is extremely simple to get them to join up to a crusade against the infidel.
It is true that US politics seems to be heavily influenced by religion at the moment, whereas in the UK, you hardly ever hear about it.
There was however a certain Tony Blair (who was good friends with a Texan cowboy/ex drunk/enlightened Christian). At the time of 9/11 and just after, our media were full of the fact that Tony was thinking of signing up to Catholicism, and he constantly made reference to where his moral guidance was coming from.
I don’t know which is more frightening - Islamic fundamentalism or Christian evangelism.
If there is a God he owes the world an apology.
Hoa binh
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-gregory/they-still-deliver-my-mai_b_77654.html
we are now living in a Christian nation … which means if you are Muslim, Jewish, agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, Zen, Hindu or anything else, and you say something against a Christian you are persecuting them and can be sent to jail or worse.. and if this doesn’t cover it, then the other laws they are passing will… like the thought police bill that is also travesty…
America as we know it is dying
When you are playing for the ‘Religious Reich’ crowd that’s what you do…put on a ‘dog and pony’ show of religious piety. Get sickening about your religion. These folks lap that kind of slop up. That’s why I refuse to vote Republican…any Republican. Until they lose this crowd of parasite’s and start getting their noses out of my bedroom and use a little common sense. I will not vote for any of them. Because that is literally who you are electing if you vote Republican…a pastor in chief. Bush has stood on his pulpit and preached for 7 years now. To bad he never follows the rules he has laid down for rest of the country. But, that’s the way religion is these days folks. For the life of me. I have never figured out why someone’s religious belief’s are a qualification for President of the US. As far as I am concerned that’s the last thing I look at. I realize these people have the erroneous idea you can’t have any moral’s without religion. But, George Bush proved that to be a misconception years ago too! He is religious head of the US and one of the most immoral men on the planet.
since1492, thank you, good post. I agree.
Honestly, why do these politicians who profess such heartfelt religious belief act in such utterly callous, numb and inhuman ways? They want to fight wars because of greed or because they are cowards and can’t stand up to greed.
Doesn’t the Christian God care what people are responsible for perpetrating in their actions?
Many of our Christian congresspeople are seriously confused as far as religion is concerned.
Is continuing to approve of and support a war against a nation that did not attack us, in which hundreds of thousands of people have died, in which you are also killing your fellow country- men and women, is that the right action for a Christian to take?
This is what they are bringing about for their religion:
Sooner or later no one will be able to associate Christianity with anything but murder and greed. It is like Leninism, Stalinism, etc, from the former Soviet Union. See anyone touting that around these days? No. Why? Uh, I dunno, I think down the road murderers like Stalin ended up creating some distaste for the communism thing.
These guys will do the same thing to Christianity. They already are doing it. Soon there’ll be nothing much left of Christianity in the mass public consciousness except an association of genocide and hypocrisy.
So it behooves Christians to try as hard as they can to redeem their belief system from the war mongers who are destroying its credibility.
Porn In the Closet?
Mitt Romney’s Secret Life as a Pornographer
By DAVID ROSEN
Excerpt: “The summer scandal about Mitt Romney’s role as a closet pornographer appears to be resurfacing as the Iowa Republican caucuses near. While never raised during the Republican debates, the rumor has been gaining momentum as local press and Christian groups continue to circulate the tale of Romney’s complicity in the offering of pornographic programming while on the board of the Marriott hotel chain. It seems to be contributing to the steady erosion of Romney’s electoral standing among evangelical Christian Republican voters.
“Mitt Romney regularly denounces the ‘cesspool’ of pornography on the campaign trail,” wrote Ben Weyl in the “Iowa Independent.” “But recently, those would be supporters have been grumbling that Romney did not do enough to shut down hardcore movie options in Marriott hotels while he was on the company’s board for nearly a decade.”
The story of Romney’s link to porn programming broke in July by AP reporter Glen Johnson. Romney served on the Marriott board from 1992 to 2001 and was chairman of its audit committee. During Romney’s tenure, Marriott contracted with On Command to provide in-room television services; in 2006, On Command was acquired by LodgeNet. When questioned by AP, Romney claimed that the issue of pornography never came up at board meetings and insisted that he did not know how much money porn generated for the hotel. Ignorance is bliss.
Romney received an annual fee of $25,000 and stock options while serving on the Marriott board. He also received a campaign contribution of $80,000 arranged by J.W. Marriot.”
http://www.counterpunch.org
Matthew 6:5 When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
“During one recent debate, candidates were asked if they believe every word of the Bible. Not one politician dismissed the question as irrelevant or out of bounds.”
Chris Edelson seems to be implying that this question is out of bounds. If so, I strongly disagree. Those who read the bible as the inerrant word of god are almost invariably creationists and moral absolutists. Which means they substitute religious superstition for science, logic and rationality and which, in turn, reflects on their ability to make rational policy decisions. We’ve had seven years of faith-based policy making and have generated more than enough evidence to prove my point.
To those of you spewing hate at folks that believe in God, or insisting you are the only one with the moral certitude to insist that if they don’t agree with you………..
Feliz Navidad & Año Nuevo Prospero
I really hate to inform ya’ll of this, but I’ve been running a large, online progressive discussion group (email based) for over seven years, and people who define themselves as ‘progressive’ are just as intolerant as everyone else. And self-interested and highly egotistical. And are often so concerned with their own personal agenda that they would be willing to destroy the entire fabric of the group if they don’t get their way.
yep, and likely just as human too …
I don’t really think that is necessary, miftin.
I mean people are entitled to their opinions. That is the point of writing here. No one is saying religious people shouldn’t have the same rights as non religious people.
I think there are some well-written, thoughtful posts on this site every day. Sometimes I like reading the posts more than the article.