Dissent from the Front Lines - CommonDreams.org

When will we listen to the troops? I’m not talking about soldiers used as props for a George Bush photo op, telling reporters what Washington wants to hear. The military is disciplined and thus accustomed, from Gen. David Petraeus on down, to toeing the official line. But the Iraq war has also produced brilliant messages of dissent from the ranks that should cause us to stop in our tracks and reconsider what we have wrought. First, a group of sergeants came forward, and on Tuesday it was the captains’ turn to speak out.

In “The War as We Saw It,” an eloquent Op-Ed article published in The New York Times in August, seven sergeants summarized the futility of their 15 months of fighting in Iraq: “To believe that Americans, with an occupying force that long ago outlived its reluctant welcome, can win over a recalcitrant local population and win this counterinsurgency is farfetched.” After penning that crie de cour, two of the soldiers died in Iraq and a third was severely wounded.

On Tuesday, The Washington Post printed “The Real Iraq We Knew,” by 12 former Army captains, all of whom served in Iraq. It begins: “Today marks five years since the authorization of military force in Iraq, setting Operation Iraqi Freedom in motion. Five years on, the Iraq war is as undermanned and under-resourced as it was from the start. And, five years on Iraq is in shambles. As Army captains who served in Baghdad and beyond, we’ve seen the corruption and the sectarian division. We understand what it’s like to be stretched too thin. And we know when it’s time to get out.”

How come those brave veterans know it’s time to get out, but leading Democrats, who voted for the war to be authorized, are still pussyfooting about quickly removing the troops from this ever-deepening quagmire? They’re jockeying for political advantage, knowing that drawing out the war hurts the Republicans. It is a deeply cynical ploy that works only because with our all-volunteer military, most Americans don’t have to face the choice of sacrificing themselves or their loved ones in a futile and losing war.

Yes, it costs the taxpayers, but so do the “Halo 3″ video games they are purchasing in record numbers, and for most Americans, Iraq is a make-believe war. Even the cost seems unreal, as Bush is the first president in U.S. history to cut taxes in a time of war, with the result that more than a trillion dollars in long-term obligations will not come due while his administration has to foot the bills.

If there was a draft, people would be in the streets demanding an end to this carnage, which now threatens to go on for decades. That is precisely what the neocon ideologues who got us into this mess built their fantasies on: a volunteer force, supplemented by hundreds of thousands of contractors (including 50,000 mercenary troops like those from Blackwater) and the purchase of largely irrelevant but highly profitable high-tech weaponry, although they forgot about simple armor for the troops.

The most fraudulent neocon claim was that pro-Western, even pro-Israel Iraqis, like their favorite, the now totally discredited Ahmed Chalabi, would police the country as surrogates for the U.S., and that Iraqi oil sales would pay for it all. The 12 captains, who worked with the locals, are very clear as to the forlorn outcome of that plan: ” … many of us witnessed the exploitation of U.S. tax dollars by Iraqi officials and military officers. Sabotage and graft have had a particularly deleterious impact on Iraq’s oil industry which still fails to produce the revenue that Pentagon war planners hoped would pay for Iraq’s reconstruction.”

As for that other ongoing illusion-that we are turning power over to Iraqi forces we have trained-the captains write: “Iraqi soldiers quit at will. The police are effectively controlled by militias. And … corruption is debilitating. U.S. tax dollars enrich self-serving generals and support the very elements that will battle each other after we’re gone.”

Building an empire on the cheap and by proxy doesn’t work. If you want one, and of course most of us don’t, since only a few fat cats benefit from such imperial adventures, you need a vast conscript army.

As the captains put it: “There is only one way we might be able to succeed in Iraq. To continue an operation of this intensity and duration, we would have to abandon our volunteer military for compulsory service. Short of that, our best option is to leave Iraq immediately.” Enough said.

Robert Scheer is editor of Truthdig.com and a regular columnist for The San Francisco Chronicle.

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41 Comments so far

odoco October 17th, 2007 12:05 pm

I have much respect for the sergeants, and now captains who have used their voices to bring attention to the long-term consequences of the American war in Iraw. Having said that, Lt. Ehren Watada is the only commissioned officer who has had the courage to directly and personally confront the system, declare the American war in Iraq as both unconstitutional and internationally illegal - and refused to participate. He is deemed a hero internationally, yet the MSM in this country hardly recognizes his existence. he is honorably serving his country and deserves the respect of every American who still believes in the Constitution and international law.

Bill from Saginaw October 17th, 2007 12:51 pm

Here is a straight forward, two-step plan to hasten the end of the disasterous US military occupation of Iraq that the leadership of the now Democratically-controlled Congress should embrace, given the 2006 election results.

STEP ONE - Repeal the Iraq war 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force resolution. Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Robert Byrd have co-sponsored a simple repeal bill that Harry Reid should bring up for debate and a public floor vote immediately.

With luck, the Republicans will filibuster and the nation will be treated to the spectacle of GOP Senators babbling about how we still might find (or really have found) WMD, Saddam was so awful that all past and ongoing American collateral atrocities are excused, and toppling Baath regime to touch off a sectarian civil war and create an Al Qaeda presence in Iraq now means we’re obligated to stay there indefinitely. By the same token, every Democrat who voted for the 2002 AUMF will have their alloted time to explain why did what they did then, and why they’re in favor of withdrawal now.

Repeal of the AUMF should easily pass on a straight party line vote, or perhaps even with a veto-proof margin (for whatever significance that would hold). Once the authorization for use of military force has thus been rescinded, the burden shifts to the White House and pro-war legislators to draft and enact a new AUMF, with a revised mission statement, based upon current conditions in Iraq. It is highly unlikely that any such replacement AUMF resolution will ever pass.

STEP TWO - By simple resolution, Congress should then declare that no member of the US armed forces can be disciplined in any way for respectfully refusing to obey an order to deploy to Iraq - deployment into an unauthorized war zone.

Under the Constitution, Congress has the sole and exclusive power to raise and support an army and navy, and sole and exclusive power to promulgate rules and regulations for the land and naval forces. Let each member of our all-volunteer armed forces therefore opt out of service in a neocolonial occupation force, if they so choose.

Empower the Ehren Watadas of the world. Most of the pro-war soldiers would prefer to team up only with fellow true believers in the cause, anyway. The Commander in Chief can issue his orders. Let’s see how many blindly obey.

By all means, let’s support the troops.

First, repeal the 2002 AUMF, as shameful a piece of legislation as the American Congress has ever passed.

Then, legally authorize each soldier to decide whether to deploy, or to refuse to deploy, to serve in Iraq if ordered to do so.

Let our citizen soldiers vote with their hearts, and their minds, and their feet. You might be real surprized to see what happens next.

Bill from Saginaw

annabelle October 17th, 2007 1:29 pm

Would it be possible (don’t know the proceedure) to have a referendum on the ballot in November to end the war and bring the troops home immediately, in time for Christmas??? If the American public voted positively on this referendum would it have any influence on this administration? Just a thought….

Daniel David October 17th, 2007 1:30 pm

Anyone who has served (or is serving) has earned a special place in my ears for whatever he or she has to say. But speaking out is a difficult thing for military members to do. It’s against the “culture.”

CD is a great forum for us to hear the real anecdotes from the front–provided they’re true. Contributors here always do a service to recount (anonymously, if need be) the stories and views from those they trust who have returned and can tell us what they saw at the war.

Hear Iz Kilroy October 17th, 2007 1:42 pm

How many of those sergeants are now dead? Wasn’t it six of the seven who died within three weeks of their report?

Hammo October 17th, 2007 1:51 pm

Scheer is right … the frontline troops have much insight about the situation. Sure, they also have varied views about some aspects, but their perspectives have value.

Food for thought in the article …

“Army and Marine Corps will retain strength and honor after Iraq occupation ends”

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=18005

Bane Richter October 17th, 2007 2:07 pm

Soldiers are idiots. The American disease includes false-idol worship of so-called honor bound murderers.
In this day and age we have no need for these ancient lies of honor, courage, bravery or any other slew of bullshit that allows young men to take the controls of a 767 or drop bombs on women and children. A tragic, socially mandated, legacy of denial.

ezeflyer October 17th, 2007 2:15 pm

Who needs soldiers when they have Blackwater?

curmudgeon99 October 17th, 2007 2:25 pm

Bill from Saginaw wins for the best action to take !!!!

One other possibility would be for the Dems to reinstitute the draft. Then watch the rest of the public begin screaming to end the war.

When sons and daughters of everyone are sent off to fight in an illegal war as in ‘Nam, the national arrogance subsides.

bakunin October 17th, 2007 2:27 pm

Hate to have to say it again, but the Bushies and even most of the dems have no intention of leaving Iraq. The only way they will leave is by being defeated militarily. We have spent close to a trillion dollars on the fiasco in Iraq. This has been Bush’s folly and our folly, and it is still in full force. Do you know about the gigantic embassy being built inside the green zone costing 600 million so far? We’re not building that and fourteen permanent bases in order to leave. The American people have had the wool pulled over their eyes. We can debate and complain all we want, but our masters decided long ago the we would be in Iraq for keeps. The Iraqis will have to drive us out, and that is likely what will end up happening.

jakenewton October 17th, 2007 2:34 pm

“Soldiers are idiots.”

Classy.

st john October 17th, 2007 2:56 pm

Bane Richter October 17th, 2007 2:07 pm and AKA Smith on other threads:
I think that you are approaching the crux of the matter: War is obsolete and the solutions are in a completely different direction. The use of force and violence to achieve any outcome is useless. If any result is achieved, it is shortterm and ultimately destructive to the whole enterprise. To call soldiers heroes is to misapply that term. Heroes are those who, though afraid for their lives or their security, take a stand for principles that are for the benefit of all, not just their immediate situation and pleasure. To kill and destroy for a cause that is small and parochial is to kill without merit. I have been to war and know that what I did was not heroic and not worthy of the cheers of my fellows, whether family, friends or countrymen(women). Nationalism is not a cause for which I would give my life. Truth and Justice, maybe. But, I would have to know a great deal about how giving my life would advance Truth and Justice. I wouldn’t call soldiers idiots, but I would say that they have adopted a belief system that does not support their personal and spiritual evolution. The consequences on one’s life of using violence is devastating. As soldiers/mercenaries return from Iraq and other war zones, the consequences for our whole society will become more and more significant. We, the United States of America, are not prepared for what is coming. May Peace Prevail on Earth.
peace,
st john

jakenewton October 17th, 2007 3:04 pm

“War is obsolete and the solutions are in a completely different direction.”

Please state your case to support this. I would like to believe it but can think of no precedence. Your avoidance of attacks on persons is appreciated.

st john October 17th, 2007 3:30 pm

jakenewton:
The precedence is in Spiritual principles and practices. If you will go to the original teachings of Spiritual Masters, not their disciples and interpretors, you will see the seeds of this philosophy. What has gotten lost in translation is what was really being taught: we are here to recognize our divinity and our membership in the human family, as brothers and sisters. This human family is inclusive and includes not only people, but the entire planet and all of its inhabitants. Those that we perceive as the enemy and unlike us are projections of our own inner fear and belief in separation. This is not an easy concept to embrace and will not bring instant satisfaction, but it is one that more and more people are embracing as an alternative to creating more conflict by arguing with our opponents. Let us look at each other as messengers of truth, bringing information and lessons from which we may learn about ourselves. Gandhi “defeated” the British Empire in India through creative non-violence, though he was assassinated for his efforts. He did not fear death as he spent his whole life preparing for that day, committed to his vision of freedom and justice for his people. Martin Luther King Jr. also had a dream, to which he was committed, even to his death. These and many others stand out as beacons to what is possible for humankind, if we allow a vision to inspire us and shape our lives. There are many resources, books and teachers who teach and practice the Principles of Peace and Love. To me, overcoming the fear of death is one of the greatest powers available to each of us. Without the fear of death, there is nothing to stop us from achieving, or at least pursuing with passion and courage, our dreams. Life is about living HERE and NOW and making our contribution to the GREATNESS we were meant to be. Read Nelson Madella’s inaugural speech, in which he quotes Marianne Williamson, an American spiritual leader, on our call to greatness.

peace,
st john

jakenewton October 17th, 2007 3:45 pm

st john, I agree with most of what you wrote but I think Ghandi and King were exceptional.

dara October 17th, 2007 3:46 pm

Though I completely agree with Robert’s point, I don’t think it is correct to call Blackwater’s employees mercenaries. I watched the 60 minutes show on this company and the spokesperson bristled when this term was used and this was one of the few things he said that made sense. Wikipedia defines it as:

A mercenary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict who is not a national of a Party to the conflict and “is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party”.

So it would work if the Blackwater employee was not from the US or Iraq (we are clearly a party to the conflict), but otherwise you have to call them something else.

Another point: This article would have been the perfect context to bring up polls among the military. If we know that more than 1/2 of the US forces in Iraq wanted a complete withdrawal along the lines proposed by Kucinich, Paul, Richardson, and Gravel (the others either don’t want to withdraw at all, or are wishy-washy about it), wouldn’t that be even more of a powerful statement than 1/2 of the US voters wanting them out? So far, I’ve found http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075 which says 70% of the troops wanted out of there in 2006, I can only assume they are even more disillusioned now. (And polls have shown more than 80% of Iraqis want us out of there - not surprising).

Dara Parsavand

st john October 17th, 2007 3:56 pm

jakenewton 3:45PM
They may seem to be exceptions, but what they demonstrate is what is possible for human beings to accomplish with a dream and an intention. I could name dozens such people whose names you may not recognize, but who are committed to full self-realization. Step outside the box and allow yourself to IMAGINE this possibility(John Lennon, for instance). Each of us comes here to this lifetime with a dream embedded in our hearts. Our purpose is to discover that dream and actualize it. There are no small dreams; only small dreamers.
peace,
st john

Commonreader October 17th, 2007 4:27 pm

Using mercenaries like Blackwater shields us from the true troop levels needed. Because there is no draft to get the troop levels we need, the war doesn’t intrude on peoples’ lives the way the Vietnam war did.

So Blackwater mercenaries serve two purposes for the powerholders. They collect millions in no-bid contracts and get richer, and they hide the real troop numbers needed for a war.

Maybe an attack on Iran is not so far-fetched if you are a powerholder (this inlcudes Sen. Clinton who sees us there until 2013) who thinks more mercenaries can fill our troop needs.

kent shaw October 17th, 2007 4:31 pm

Bane Richter & jakenewton,

In their December, 1975, “The Final Days”, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, write on pages 194 and 195, that “ … military men are “dumb, stupid animals to be used … ” as pawns for foreign policy.

And although its been low key and not mentioned much in the MSM, Kissinger has been a constant behind the scenes advisor to the Bush Regime. You can safely bet that Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and the rest of their “neo”conservative ilk feel pretty much the same way. Someone needs to get it across to the soldiers what their government really thinks of them.

Siouxrose October 17th, 2007 4:35 pm

ST JOHN: Inspiring and spiritually enlightened postings the truth of which I personally aspire to, and invite others to do likewise. THAT massive shift of consciousness, “the great turning” is what will heal mankind and make war one day obsolete. THIS of course being the central threat to those who rely on fear and profit from weapons and their deployment in one illegitimate conflict (dressed up by high paid media pundits) or another ad nauseum. Again, gracias.

jakenewton October 17th, 2007 4:40 pm

“In their December, 1975, “The Final Days”, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, write on pages 194 and 195, that “ … military men are “dumb, stupid animals to be used … ” as pawns for foreign policy.”

But do *they* make a case to back that up either? Do they add any nuance to that anywhere? There have been brilliant military minds in history, and any one of those as examples show Bob and Carl to be wrong.

kent shaw October 17th, 2007 4:40 pm

St. John wrote: “The consequences on one’s life of using violence is devastating. As soldiers/mercenaries return from Iraq and other war zones, the consequences for our whole society will become more and more significant. We, the United States of America, are not prepared for what is coming. May Peace Prevail on Earth.”

A few days ago I happened to meet a young man who had recently returned from his third tour of duty in Iraq. His cousin is a friend so thats how we met. This particular young man is filled with hate, frustration and violent ideation. There was no consoling him. There was nothing that could be said that he would not twist into a cause for further hostility. He claimed to have been discharged from the military for mental health reasons. His claim was that he had come to immensely enjoy killing people, and that when he told his superiors of this, discharge proceedings were begun. If this young man does not receive some kind of help very soon I believe that he will kill someone here, locally. I can’t help wondering how many others like him will be returning from Bush’s war. This is only an anecdote, so please do not blow it out of proportion. This individual could very well be the ONLY soldier of this mindset returning from Iraq. But I suspect not. Wouldn’t it be just wonderful if he finds employment on one of our local police forces?

blessthebeasts October 17th, 2007 6:01 pm

kent shaw–it’s not too surprising that the young man you met enjoys killing people. It’s what he was trained to do. I am surprised they discharged him because of it. They must’ve been afraid he would start fragging his superior officers.

Dichterfreund October 17th, 2007 6:21 pm

jake n,

“And although its been low key and not mentioned much in the MSM, Kissinger has been a constant behind the scenes advisor to the Bush Regime”

Jeremi Suri’s book on Kissinger, an admiring one, gets down to brass tacks on how American foreign policy (never as wonderful, except by contrast, to BushCo) changed so that the permanent paradigm became that of the German Jewish immigrants — every enemy of America is Hitler, and every Hitler is an enemy of every Jew, so every enemy of America is an enemy of every Jew. (My words, not Suri’s, but the gravamen of his description of how Kissinger’s mentality came to dominate as King Richard the Slimehearted went into decay . . . )

sgt 0589 October 17th, 2007 7:33 pm

Jake, you are misinformed.
A very small minority of American Jews are German Jewish immigrants. And they are certainly neither the most vocal nor the most active.
The Hitler of the Month ploy has become a tool of the rulers of this country, and cannot be laid at the feet of the Jews.

mainspark October 17th, 2007 7:57 pm

Twelve Army captains, calling for an end to the war? Did anyone tell Rush?

Kristina40 October 17th, 2007 8:30 pm

oh mainspark, those dang pesky, fake soldiers…

Kristina40 October 17th, 2007 8:32 pm

kent shaw, that is truly frightening. I would say it is only a matter of time before he kills here. Probably in a bar fight or something similiar. It won’t take much for him to snap. PTSD is going to be a huge problem in the very near future for us all.

Hear Iz Kilroy October 17th, 2007 9:02 pm

Sometime in the near future, Bush will enact his prepared Presidential Directives. All communications will be under his strict control, ____ telephones, cellular phones, the internet, radio and TV stations. Your wages, bank accounts, credit cards, 401Ks, etc will be under his control, credit cards and bank accounts will be frozen. Everyone will be instructed to go home and stay there. The news channels and radio news will be controlled by the government. Another of the Bush directives gives him control over all traffic, land, sea and air, including personal vehicles, another over all fuel, heating and vehicular, electrical power, water supplies and food distruibution. Since most of our food supplies are controlled by a handful of corporations, that will insure we obey the rules if we wish to have anythinhg to eat.

People who protest will be arrested and imprisoned in one of the 800 plus Fema prisons which can “process”, 10,000 humans a day. We will not be able to communicate with one another, ____ with no communications, public protests of any size will be few and far between. ___ Another directive gives the government the authority to have civilians rounded up and put into labor camps.

I can see people who attempt to get others together being reported by their neighbors, or even “friends” and family. The government already has more civilian contractors than military troops, who are actually Blackwater type Rambos, who may be issued brown shirts and an attractive arm band. ____ Sound familiar to any?

mickm October 17th, 2007 9:34 pm

Bill from Saginaw…You get my vote too!! I’ll pass this on to everyone I know. Thanks so much.
A Friend in Mt. Pleasant

jakenewton October 17th, 2007 9:45 pm

“Jake, you are misinformed.
A very small minority of American Jews are (cut)…”

What are you talking about? I’ve been asking for a case that all soldiers are idiots.

AlexLawyer October 17th, 2007 10:31 pm

There is a simple solution: if our troops would emulate the Vietnam-era Air National Guard service record of their Commander-in-Chief, the Great Prevaricator, and desert, we’d be out in a flash. Bush deserted, despite his and his family’s support for the Vietnam war, when drug testing was introduced, and lied about it later. That doesn’t stop him from prosecuting Watada, whose principled refusal to fight should be exemplary. And if Congress would grant immunity to the deserters, as they already have to the torturers, war profiteers and war criminals, we could put paid to this bloody, brutal and expensive neocon misadventure.

fresh1 October 17th, 2007 11:09 pm

There is a world of difference between dissent by active-duty personnel (the seven sergeants) and “former” captains or retired generals. Serving soldiers do not have complete freedom of speech (and I’m not making this up, its settled law and it also applies to what an employee says about an employer– say whatever you want about your employer, but if you diss the company, even if its true, they can fire you, demote you, discipline you). Soldiers can and will be punished for disparaging the mission, but for the most part social pressure does the job without formal punishments. Even those who have finished their tour of duty are at some risk for having their status changed and having services denied. You can be called back into service. You can lose your pension and your benefits.

So, please, dara, lets not take a poll of soldiers to see what they think. It would not be entirely meaningless to know how many would speak out– in spite of the risk, but one must not assume that the opinions of soldiers are given freely.

pacplyer October 18th, 2007 12:59 am

Are we at Code Red yet?

Anybody who speaks up against this insane holy war gets fired or shot. Pat Tillman, the NFL star, the Sargents from August, the air force B-52 whistleblowers who warned us about the stray nukes at Barksdale AFB (oops another suicide duo)

Valerie Plame, (they missed her), Senator Welstone (airplane crash), Ron Brown….

and these are just the few high profile ones we know about…. remember, for every cockroach you see scrambing on the floor, there’s at least one hundred in the walls and floors that you can’t see…

Tell me we don’t have a Gestapo shadow government agency.

What happened to good Americans who believe we are still the good guys in the world? Stand up against torture! Stand up against offensive nuclear war for profit! Be a real patriot for your country and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies: foreign and Domestic!

Do the right thing!

hybridoma2001 October 18th, 2007 5:39 am

I’ve just finished re-reading William James essay: “The Moral Equivalent of War.” Although it’s dated and many parts of the essay no longer apply in today’s world, I think it’s worth reading by anyone interested in the question of ending war - of making war obsolete.

I agree wholeheartedly with what st. john and many others have written. An enlightened, spiritual path in life would have no place for war in it. However, I feel that we have a long way to go before we evolve to such a level. It would take generations. Also, it seems to me that violence is a trait we don’t learn but are born with. I can think back to when I was a small boy and the cruel things I would do to insects or other small animals. Breaking a window had a thrill to it. Battles with snowballs were great fun.

You may be thinking I’m some sort of vandal or psychopath, but it isn’t so. I would never start fights and to this day I have never hit one of my brothers or sisters. I would never imagine hurting another person when I was that small boy and that’s true up to this very day. But there still seems to be an innate curiosity to destroy. Watch any group of young boys – four year olds, for example. A great part of their play consists of fighting each other. Just like the lion cubs that play with other lion cubs, they are fighting without hurting but it is still serving a function that they will need later in life. Of course this isn’t every boy, but I would guess it would be a majority. Yes, there were always the other children who never did these things and they were usually made fun of. And women seem to be free of this instinct to break or destroy. But again, it seems to be a biological issue. In general, women are the opposite, and rather than destroy, they nurture and heal others.

To rid ourselves of this trait would take many years. Everything would have to change, beginning on an individual level and then to society. When we lean to share the limited resources of the planet, when the population stops increasing and perhaps even decreases, there will be less of a need to begin wars for the control of natural resources.

We have the institution already in place to avoid wars – the United Nations. However, its mission is constantly hampered but various nations, especially the USA. If the UN were able to do its job, then we could truly begin to set out the course toward a world of people living in peace. Of course, there will always be murders and the violently insane people. And there will always be small groups that create discord. But an all out war between nations will be stopped.

It’s a dream, but if all those things John Lennon asks us to imagine actually happened, this world would be a wonderful place for everyone.

judi October 18th, 2007 10:48 am

Didn’t Petraeus and Bush claim recently that we were going to reduce our forces in Iraq over the year, a few thousand every 6 months or so? The latest news is that National Guards will be going over to Iraq filling in for the ones promised to return to the States. I hope the general public gets this insidious and traitorous action. What was promised was just a lie. And how about instead of “former generals” we hear from present day generals standing up to Bush and answering their pledge to enforce our Constitution, to resist sending more troops to be slaughtered in a failing “occupation”.

jakenewton October 18th, 2007 11:04 am

“The latest news is that National Guards will be going over to Iraq filling in for the ones promised to return to the States. I hope the general public gets this insidious and traitorous action. What was promised was just a lie.”

Source?

Chunga's Revenge October 18th, 2007 12:33 pm

Bane Richter October 17th, 2007 2:07 pm - Your statement that Soldiers are Idiots, makes you look sound like a complete ASS HOLE, not to mention mis-educated regarding the level of intelligence of individual members of our armed forces. The rest of you post is incomprehensible, partly because of your status as an ASS HOLE, and partly because you are not able to back any of it up with facts.

matthood October 18th, 2007 5:36 pm

In WW1 jobs in military intelligence was reserved for the wealthy elites children has a means to avoid the draft and combat. The US Military created the National Guard to be a means to protect the children of elected officials and the wealthy to avoid the draft honorably. It was the draft dodgers who avoid the draft by hiding one in the national guard who have destroyed America’s voluntary Army. I wonder what the wealthy will create next to avoid combat. President GHW Bush SR was in WW2, who took two years to learn how to fly, who spent only 7=8 months in harms way out of 4 years. Its my belief Lt.Bush Sr was sent home for crashing two planes who failed to be a pilot after 2 years of training who killed his crew, who had a break down and then sent home to get married. He spent the last year of the war babysitting his wife until he was quickly let go for Yale. Lt Bush Sr was not officer material. He was only 18 years old. He had no right to be allowed to be a pilot. You had to have two years of college which he did not have! His lack of maturity cause him to fail has a pilot!

Siouxrose October 18th, 2007 9:38 pm

HYBRIDOMA: Regarding your observation that young children express violence in their patterns of play, many then deduce this implies a genetic link or some other innate behavioral apparatus. If we respect that at least a billion people believe in reincarnation, then the present lifetime hardly constitutes a “fresh slate.” The history of violence is part of the soul’s legacy insofar as each of us has likely had the misfortune of coming up against war or violence, certainly competition in the vast majority of our previous lifetimes.

Still, mankind has to start somewhere and some time and this is where Kucinich is a prophet, as may be Marianne Williamson and others who ask us to begin to see peace. ALL the spiritual masters taught some derivative of forgiveness and/or turning the other cheek because without these spiritual applications the cycles of violence can never cease. Indeed karma is invoked as “the sins of the fathers (shall be) visited upon the sons.”

The Course in Miracles states that any time 2 people give up a grievance and choose peace, the ground there is made holy. This energetic shift is referred to as the at-onement.

There is so much these days to get angry about, and yet the spiritual vow of finding one’s center and cultivating peace within remains a virtue. Still, these ARE times that test men and women’s souls.

zhongman October 19th, 2007 1:25 pm

dara October 17th, 2007 3:46 pm

I believe you are making the assumption that all Blackwater operatives are US citizens. Blackwater employs soldiers from all around the world. I heard Eric Prince on the NPR yesterday and He was touting that none of the people protected by his men have been killed. Considering the odds that one can get hurt in Iraq, this actually speaks towards these tactics they use to protect them. Can anyone else in Iraq make that claim? Probably not, and the reason is that Blackwater does in fact not value Iraqi lives or in fact the lives of anyone they are not protecting. He also spoke about his men’s various acts of kindness toward Iraqi’s. I bet these were individual acts of kindness and not the result of his company’s policy.

odoco October 17th, 2007 12:05 pm

I have much respect for the sergeants, and now captains who have used their voices to bring attention to the long-term consequences of the American war in Iraw. Having said that, Lt. Ehren Watada is the only commissioned officer who has had the courage to directly and personally confront the system, declare the American war in Iraq as both unconstitutional and internationally illegal - and refused to participate. He is deemed a hero internationally, yet the MSM in this country hardly recognizes his existence. he is honorably serving his country and deserves the respect of every American who still believes in the Constitution and international law.
Bill from Saginaw October 17th, 2007 12:51 pm

Here is a straight forward, two-step plan to hasten the end of the disasterous US military occupation of Iraq that the leadership of the now Democratically-controlled Congress should embrace, given the 2006 election results.

STEP ONE - Repeal the Iraq war 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force resolution. Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Robert Byrd have co-sponsored a simple repeal bill that Harry Reid should bring up for debate and a public floor vote immediately.

With luck, the Republicans will filibuster and the nation will be treated to the spectacle of GOP Senators babbling about how we still might find (or really have found) WMD, Saddam was so awful that all past and ongoing American collateral atrocities are excused, and toppling Baath regime to touch off a sectarian civil war and create an Al Qaeda presence in Iraq now means we’re obligated to stay there indefinitely. By the same token, every Democrat who voted for the 2002 AUMF will have their alloted time to explain why did what they did then, and why they’re in favor of withdrawal now.

Repeal of the AUMF should easily pass on a straight party line vote, or perhaps even with a veto-proof margin (for whatever significance that would hold). Once the authorization for use of military force has thus been rescinded, the burden shifts to the White House and pro-war legislators to draft and enact a new AUMF, with a revised mission statement, based upon current conditions in Iraq. It is highly unlikely that any such replacement AUMF resolution will ever pass.

STEP TWO - By simple resolution, Congress should then declare that no member of the US armed forces can be disciplined in any way for respectfully refusing to obey an order to deploy to Iraq - deployment into an unauthorized war zone.

Under the Constitution, Congress has the sole and exclusive power to raise and support an army and navy, and sole and exclusive power to promulgate rules and regulations for the land and naval forces. Let each member of our all-volunteer armed forces therefore opt out of service in a neocolonial occupation force, if they so choose.

Empower the Ehren Watadas of the world. Most of the pro-war soldiers would prefer to team up only with fellow true believers in the cause, anyway. The Commander in Chief can issue his orders. Let’s see how many blindly obey.

By all means, let’s support the troops.

First, repeal the 2002 AUMF, as shameful a piece of legislation as the American Congress has ever passed.

Then, legally authorize each soldier to decide whether to deploy, or to refuse to deploy, to serve in Iraq if ordered to do so.

Let our citizen soldiers vote with their hearts, and their minds, and their feet. You might be real surprized to see what happens next.

Bill from Saginaw
annabelle October 17th, 2007 1:29 pm

Would it be possible (don’t know the proceedure) to have a referendum on the ballot in November to end the war and bring the troops home immediately, in time for Christmas??? If the American public voted positively on this referendum would it have any influence on this administration? Just a thought….
Daniel David October 17th, 2007 1:30 pm

Anyone who has served (or is serving) has earned a special place in my ears for whatever he or she has to say. But speaking out is a difficult thing for military members to do. It’s against the “culture.”

CD is a great forum for us to hear the real anecdotes from the front–provided they’re true. Contributors here always do a service to recount (anonymously, if need be) the stories and views from those they trust who have returned and can tell us what they saw at the war.
Hear Iz Kilroy October 17th, 2007 1:42 pm

How many of those sergeants are now dead? Wasn’t it six of the seven who died within three weeks of their report?
Hammo October 17th, 2007 1:51 pm

Scheer is right … the frontline troops have much insight about the situation. Sure, they also have varied views about some aspects, but their perspectives have value.

Food for thought in the article …

“Army and Marine Corps will retain strength and honor after Iraq occupation ends”

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=18005
Bane Richter October 17th, 2007 2:07 pm

Soldiers are idiots. The American disease includes false-idol worship of so-called honor bound murderers.
In this day and age we have no need for these ancient lies of honor, courage, bravery or any other slew of bullshit that allows young men to take the controls of a 767 or drop bombs on women and children. A tragic, socially mandated, legacy of denial.
ezeflyer October 17th, 2007 2:15 pm

Who needs soldiers when they have Blackwater?
curmudgeon99 October 17th, 2007 2:25 pm

Bill from Saginaw wins for the best action to take !!!!

One other possibility would be for the Dems to reinstitute the draft. Then watch the rest of the public begin screaming to end the war.

When sons and daughters of everyone are sent off to fight in an illegal war as in ‘Nam, the national arrogance subsides.
bakunin October 17th, 2007 2:27 pm

Hate to have to say it again, but the Bushies and even most of the dems have no intention of leaving Iraq. The only way they will leave is by being defeated militarily. We have spent close to a trillion dollars on the fiasco in Iraq. This has been Bush’s folly and our folly, and it is still in full force. Do you know about the gigantic embassy being built inside the green zone costing 600 million so far? We’re not building that and fourteen permanent bases in order to leave. The American people have had the wool pulled over their eyes. We can debate and complain all we want, but our masters decided long ago the we would be in Iraq for keeps. The Iraqis will have to drive us out, and that is likely what will end up happening.
jakenewton October 17th, 2007 2:34 pm

“Soldiers are idiots.”

Classy.
st john October 17th, 2007 2:56 pm

Bane Richter October 17th, 2007 2:07 pm and AKA Smith on other threads:
I think that you are approaching the crux of the matter: War is obsolete and the solutions are in a completely different direction. The use of force and violence to achieve any outcome is useless. If any result is achieved, it is shortterm and ultimately destructive to the whole enterprise. To call soldiers heroes is to misapply that term. Heroes are those who, though afraid for their lives or their security, take a stand for principles that are for the benefit of all, not just their immediate situation and pleasure. To kill and destroy for a cause that is small and parochial is to kill without merit. I have been to war and know that what I did was not heroic and not worthy of the cheers of my fellows, whether family, friends or countrymen(women). Nationalism is not a cause for which I would give my life. Truth and Justice, maybe. But, I would have to know a great deal about how giving my life would advance Truth and Justice. I wouldn’t call soldiers idiots, but I would say that they have adopted a belief system that does not support their personal and spiritual evolution. The consequences on one’s life of using violence is devastating. As soldiers/mercenaries return from Iraq and other war zones, the consequences for our whole society will become more and more significant. We, the United States of America, are not prepared for what is coming. May Peace Prevail on Earth.
peace,
st john
jakenewton October 17th, 2007 3:04 pm

“War is obsolete and the solutions are in a completely different direction.”

Please state your case to support this. I would like to believe it but can think of no precedence. Your avoidance of attacks on persons is appreciated.
st john October 17th, 2007 3:30 pm

jakenewton:
The precedence is in Spiritual principles and practices. If you will go to the original teachings of Spiritual Masters, not their disciples and interpretors, you will see the seeds of this philosophy. What has gotten lost in translation is what was really being taught: we are here to recognize our divinity and our membership in the human family, as brothers and sisters. This human family is inclusive and includes not only people, but the entire planet and all of its inhabitants. Those that we perceive as the enemy and unlike us are projections of our own inner fear and belief in separation. This is not an easy concept to embrace and will not bring instant satisfaction, but it is one that more and more people are embracing as an alternative to creating more conflict by arguing with our opponents. Let us look at each other as messengers of truth, bringing information and lessons from which we may learn about ourselves. Gandhi “defeated” the British Empire in India through creative non-violence, though he was assassinated for his efforts. He did not fear death as he spent his whole life preparing for that day, committed to his vision of freedom and justice for his people. Martin Luther King Jr. also had a dream, to which he was committed, even to his death. These and many others stand out as beacons to what is possible for humankind, if we allow a vision to inspire us and shape our lives. There are many resources, books and teachers who teach and practice the Principles of Peace and Love. To me, overcoming the fear of death is one of the greatest powers available to each of us. Without the fear of death, there is nothing to stop us from achieving, or at least pursuing with passion and courage, our dreams. Life is about living HERE and NOW and making our contribution to the GREATNESS we were meant to be. Read Nelson Madella’s inaugural speech, in which he quotes Marianne Williamson, an American spiritual leader, on our call to greatness.

peace,
st john
jakenewton October 17th, 2007 3:45 pm

st john, I agree with most of what you wrote but I think Ghandi and King were exceptional.
dara October 17th, 2007 3:46 pm

Though I completely agree with Robert’s point, I don’t think it is correct to call Blackwater’s employees mercenaries. I watched the 60 minutes show on this company and the spokesperson bristled when this term was used and this was one of the few things he said that made sense. Wikipedia defines it as:

A mercenary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict who is not a national of a Party to the conflict and “is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party”.

So it would work if the Blackwater employee was not from the US or Iraq (we are clearly a party to the conflict), but otherwise you have to call them something else.

Another point: This article would have been the perfect context to bring up polls among the military. If we know that more than 1/2 of the US forces in Iraq wanted a complete withdrawal along the lines proposed by Kucinich, Paul, Richardson, and Gravel (the others either don’t want to withdraw at all, or are wishy-washy about it), wouldn’t that be even more of a powerful statement than 1/2 of the US voters wanting them out? So far, I’ve found http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075 which says 70% of the troops wanted out of there in 2006, I can only assume they are even more disillusioned now. (And polls have shown more than 80% of Iraqis want us out of there - not surprising).

Dara Parsavand
st john October 17th, 2007 3:56 pm

jakenewton 3:45PM
They may seem to be exceptions, but what they demonstrate is what is possible for human beings to accomplish with a dream and an intention. I could name dozens such people whose names you may not recognize, but who are committed to full self-realization. Step outside the box and allow yourself to IMAGINE this possibility(John Lennon, for instance). Each of us comes here to this lifetime with a dream embedded in our hearts. Our purpose is to discover that dream and actualize it. There are no small dreams; only small dreamers.
peace,
st john
Commonreader October 17th, 2007 4:27 pm

Using mercenaries like Blackwater shields us from the true troop levels needed. Because there is no draft to get the troop levels we need, the war doesn’t intrude on peoples’ lives the way the Vietnam war did.

So Blackwater mercenaries serve two purposes for the powerholders. They collect millions in no-bid contracts and get richer, and they hide the real troop numbers needed for a war.

Maybe an attack on Iran is not so far-fetched if you are a powerholder (this inlcudes Sen. Clinton who sees us there until 2013) who thinks more mercenaries can fill our troop needs.
kent shaw October 17th, 2007 4:31 pm

Bane Richter & jakenewton,

In their December, 1975, “The Final Days”, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, write on pages 194 and 195, that “ … military men are “dumb, stupid animals to be used … ” as pawns for foreign policy.

And although its been low key and not mentioned much in the MSM, Kissinger has been a constant behind the scenes advisor to the Bush Regime. You can safely bet that Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and the rest of their “neo”conservative ilk feel pretty much the same way. Someone needs to get it across to the soldiers what their government really thinks of them.
Siouxrose October 17th, 2007 4:35 pm

ST JOHN: Inspiring and spiritually enlightened postings the truth of which I personally aspire to, and invite others to do likewise. THAT massive shift of consciousness, “the great turning” is what will heal mankind and make war one day obsolete. THIS of course being the central threat to those who rely on fear and profit from weapons and their deployment in one illegitimate conflict (dressed up by high paid media pundits) or another ad nauseum. Again, gracias.
jakenewton October 17th, 2007 4:40 pm

“In their December, 1975, “The Final Days”, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, write on pages 194 and 195, that “ … military men are “dumb, stupid animals to be used … ” as pawns for foreign policy.”

But do *they* make a case to back that up either? Do they add any nuance to that anywhere? There have been brilliant military minds in history, and any one of those as examples show Bob and Carl to be wrong.
kent shaw October 17th, 2007 4:40 pm

St. John wrote: “The consequences on one’s life of using violence is devastating. As soldiers/mercenaries return from Iraq and other war zones, the consequences for our whole society will become more and more significant. We, the United States of America, are not prepared for what is coming. May Peace Prevail on Earth.”

A few days ago I happened to meet a young man who had recently returned from his third tour of duty in Iraq. His cousin is a friend so thats how we met. This particular young man is filled with hate, frustration and violent ideation. There was no consoling him. There was nothing that could be said that he would not twist into a cause for further hostility. He claimed to have been discharged from the military for mental health reasons. His claim was that he had come to immensely enjoy killing people, and that when he told his superiors of this, discharge proceedings were begun. If this young man does not receive some kind of help very soon I believe that he will kill someone here, locally. I can’t help wondering how many others like him will be returning from Bush’s war. This is only an anecdote, so please do not blow it out of proportion. This individual could very well be the ONLY soldier of this mindset returning from Iraq. But I suspect not. Wouldn’t it be just wonderful if he finds employment on one of our local police forces?
blessthebeasts October 17th, 2007 6:01 pm

kent shaw–it’s not too surprising that the young man you met enjoys killing people. It’s what he was trained to do. I am surprised they discharged him because of it. They must’ve been afraid he would start fragging his superior officers.
Dichterfreund October 17th, 2007 6:21 pm

jake n,

“And although its been low key and not mentioned much in the MSM, Kissinger has been a constant behind the scenes advisor to the Bush Regime”

Jeremi Suri’s book on Kissinger, an admiring one, gets down to brass tacks on how American foreign policy (never as wonderful, except by contrast, to BushCo) changed so that the permanent paradigm became that of the German Jewish immigrants — every enemy of America is Hitler, and every Hitler is an enemy of every Jew, so every enemy of America is an enemy of every Jew. (My words, not Suri’s, but the gravamen of his description of how Kissinger’s mentality came to dominate as King Richard the Slimehearted went into decay . . . )
sgt 0589 October 17th, 2007 7:33 pm

Jake, you are misinformed.
A very small minority of American Jews are German Jewish immigrants. And they are certainly neither the most vocal nor the most active.
The Hitler of the Month ploy has become a tool of the rulers of this country, and cannot be laid at the feet of the Jews.
mainspark October 17th, 2007 7:57 pm

Twelve Army captains, calling for an end to the war? Did anyone tell Rush?
Kristina40 October 17th, 2007 8:30 pm

oh mainspark, those dang pesky, fake soldiers…
Kristina40 October 17th, 2007 8:32 pm

kent shaw, that is truly frightening. I would say it is only a matter of time before he kills here. Probably in a bar fight or something similiar. It won’t take much for him to snap. PTSD is going to be a huge problem in the very near future for us all.
Hear Iz Kilroy October 17th, 2007 9:02 pm

Sometime in the near future, Bush will enact his prepared Presidential Directives. All communications will be under his strict control, ____ telephones, cellular phones, the internet, radio and TV stations. Your wages, bank accounts, credit cards, 401Ks, etc will be under his control, credit cards and bank accounts will be frozen. Everyone will be instructed to go home and stay there. The news channels and radio news will be controlled by the government. Another of the Bush directives gives him control over all traffic, land, sea and air, including personal vehicles, another over all fuel, heating and vehicular, electrical power, water supplies and food distruibution. Since most of our food supplies are controlled by a handful of corporations, that will insure we obey the rules if we wish to have anythinhg to eat.

People who protest will be arrested and imprisoned in one of the 800 plus Fema prisons which can “process”, 10,000 humans a day. We will not be able to communicate with one another, ____ with no communications, public protests of any size will be few and far between. ___ Another directive gives the government the authority to have civilians rounded up and put into labor camps.

I can see people who attempt to get others together being reported by their neighbors, or even “friends” and family. The government already has more civilian contractors than military troops, who are actually Blackwater type Rambos, who may be issued brown shirts and an attractive arm band. ____ Sound familiar to any?
mickm October 17th, 2007 9:34 pm

Bill from Saginaw…You get my vote too!! I’ll pass this on to everyone I know. Thanks so much.
A Friend in Mt. Pleasant
jakenewton October 17th, 2007 9:45 pm

“Jake, you are misinformed.
A very small minority of American Jews are (cut)…”

What are you talking about? I’ve been asking for a case that all soldiers are idiots.
AlexLawyer October 17th, 2007 10:31 pm

There is a simple solution: if our troops would emulate the Vietnam-era Air National Guard service record of their Commander-in-Chief, the Great Prevaricator, and desert, we’d be out in a flash. Bush deserted, despite his and his family’s support for the Vietnam war, when drug testing was introduced, and lied about it later. That doesn’t stop him from prosecuting Watada, whose principled refusal to fight should be exemplary. And if Congress would grant immunity to the deserters, as they already have to the torturers, war profiteers and war criminals, we could put paid to this bloody, brutal and expensive neocon misadventure.
fresh1 October 17th, 2007 11:09 pm

There is a world of difference between dissent by active-duty personnel (the seven sergeants) and “former” captains or retired generals. Serving soldiers do not have complete freedom of speech (and I’m not making this up, its settled law and it also applies to what an employee says about an employer– say whatever you want about your employer, but if you diss the company, even if its true, they can fire you, demote you, discipline you). Soldiers can and will be punished for disparaging the mission, but for the most part social pressure does the job without formal punishments. Even those who have finished their tour of duty are at some risk for having their status changed and having services denied. You can be called back into service. You can lose your pension and your benefits.

So, please, dara, lets not take a poll of soldiers to see what they think. It would not be entirely meaningless to know how many would speak out– in spite of the risk, but one must not assume that the opinions of soldiers are given freely.
pacplyer October 18th, 2007 12:59 am

Are we at Code Red yet?

Anybody who speaks up against this insane holy war gets fired or shot. Pat Tillman, the NFL star, the Sargents from August, the air force B-52 whistleblowers who warned us about the stray nukes at Barksdale AFB (oops another suicide duo)

Valerie Plame, (they missed her), Senator Welstone (airplane crash), Ron Brown….

and these are just the few high profile ones we know about…. remember, for every cockroach you see scrambing on the floor, there’s at least one hundred in the walls and floors that you can’t see…

Tell me we don’t have a Gestapo shadow government agency.

What happened to good Americans who believe we are still the good guys in the world? Stand up against torture! Stand up against offensive nuclear war for profit! Be a real patriot for your country and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies: foreign and Domestic!

Do the right thing!
hybridoma2001 October 18th, 2007 5:39 am

I’ve just finished re-reading William James essay: “The Moral Equivalent of War.” Although it’s dated and many parts of the essay no longer apply in today’s world, I think it’s worth reading by anyone interested in the question of ending war - of making war obsolete.

I agree wholeheartedly with what st. john and many others have written. An enlightened, spiritual path in life would have no place for war in it. However, I feel that we have a long way to go before we evolve to such a level. It would take generations. Also, it seems to me that violence is a trait we don’t learn but are born with. I can think back to when I was a small boy and the cruel things I would do to insects or other small animals. Breaking a window had a thrill to it. Battles with snowballs were great fun.

You may be thinking I’m some sort of vandal or psychopath, but it isn’t so. I would never start fights and to this day I have never hit one of my brothers or sisters. I would never imagine hurting another person when I was that small boy and that’s true up to this very day. But there still seems to be an innate curiosity to destroy. Watch any group of young boys – four year olds, for example. A great part of their play consists of fighting each other. Just like the lion cubs that play with other lion cubs, they are fighting without hurting but it is still serving a function that they will need later in life. Of course this isn’t every boy, but I would guess it would be a majority. Yes, there were always the other children who never did these things and they were usually made fun of. And women seem to be free of this instinct to break or destroy. But again, it seems to be a biological issue. In general, women are the opposite, and rather than destroy, they nurture and heal others.

To rid ourselves of this trait would take many years. Everything would have to change, beginning on an individual level and then to society. When we lean to share the limited resources of the planet, when the population stops increasing and perhaps even decreases, there will be less of a need to begin wars for the control of natural resources.

We have the institution already in place to avoid wars – the United Nations. However, its mission is constantly hampered but various nations, especially the USA. If the UN were able to do its job, then we could truly begin to set out the course toward a world of people living in peace. Of course, there will always be murders and the violently insane people. And there will always be small groups that create discord. But an all out war between nations will be stopped.

It’s a dream, but if all those things John Lennon asks us to imagine actually happened, this world would be a wonderful place for everyone.
judi October 18th, 2007 10:48 am

Didn’t Petraeus and Bush claim recently that we were going to reduce our forces in Iraq over the year, a few thousand every 6 months or so? The latest news is that National Guards will be going over to Iraq filling in for the ones promised to return to the States. I hope the general public gets this insidious and traitorous action. What was promised was just a lie. And how about instead of “former generals” we hear from present day generals standing up to Bush and answering their pledge to enforce our Constitution, to resist sending more troops to be slaughtered in a failing “occupation”.
jakenewton October 18th, 2007 11:04 am

“The latest news is that National Guards will be going over to Iraq filling in for the ones promised to return to the States. I hope the general public gets this insidious and traitorous action. What was promised was just a lie.”

Source?
Chunga's Revenge October 18th, 2007 12:33 pm

Bane Richter October 17th, 2007 2:07 pm - Your statement that Soldiers are Idiots, makes you look sound like a complete ASS HOLE, not to mention mis-educated regarding the level of intelligence of individual members of our armed forces. The rest of you post is incomprehensible, partly because of your status as an ASS HOLE, and partly because you are not able to back any of it up with facts.
matthood October 18th, 2007 5:36 pm

In WW1 jobs in military intelligence was reserved for the wealthy elites children has a means to avoid the draft and combat. The US Military created the National Guard to be a means to protect the children of elected officials and the wealthy to avoid the draft honorably. It was the draft dodgers who avoid the draft by hiding one in the national guard who have destroyed America’s voluntary Army. I wonder what the wealthy will create next to avoid combat. President GHW Bush SR was in WW2, who took two years to learn how to fly, who spent only 7=8 months in harms way out of 4 years. Its my belief Lt.Bush Sr was sent home for crashing two planes who failed to be a pilot after 2 years of training who killed his crew, who had a break down and then sent home to get married. He spent the last year of the war babysitting his wife until he was quickly let go for Yale. Lt Bush Sr was not officer material. He was only 18 years old. He had no right to be allowed to be a pilot. You had to have two years of college which he did not have! His lack of maturity cause him to fail has a pilot!
Siouxrose October 18th, 2007 9:38 pm

HYBRIDOMA: Regarding your observation that young children express violence in their patterns of play, many then deduce this implies a genetic link or some other innate behavioral apparatus. If we respect that at least a billion people believe in reincarnation, then the present lifetime hardly constitutes a “fresh slate.” The history of violence is part of the soul’s legacy insofar as each of us has likely had the misfortune of coming up against war or violence, certainly competition in the vast majority of our previous lifetimes.

Still, mankind has to start somewhere and some time and this is where Kucinich is a prophet, as may be Marianne Williamson and others who ask us to begin to see peace. ALL the spiritual masters taught some derivative of forgiveness and/or turning the other cheek because without these spiritual applications the cycles of violence can never cease. Indeed karma is invoked as “the sins of the fathers (shall be) visited upon the sons.”

The Course in Miracles states that any time 2 people give up a grievance and choose peace, the ground there is made holy. This energetic shift is referred to as the at-onement.

There is so much these days to get angry about, and yet the spiritual vow of finding one’s center and cultivating peace within remains a virtue. Still, these ARE times that test men and women’s souls.
zhongman October 19th, 2007 1:25 pm

dara October 17th, 2007 3:46 pm

I believe you are making the assumption that all Blackwater operatives are US citizens. Blackwater employs soldiers from all around the world. I heard Eric Prince on the NPR yesterday and He was touting that none of the people protected by his men have been killed. Considering the odds that one can get hurt in Iraq, this actually speaks towards these tactics they use to protect them. Can anyone else in Iraq make that claim? Probably not, and the reason is that Blackwater does in fact not value Iraqi lives or in fact the lives of anyone they are not protecting. He also spoke about his men’s various acts of kindness toward Iraqi’s. I bet these were individual acts of kindness and not the result of his company’s policy.

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