Russia’s Gorbachev Says US is Sowing World Disorder
Former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev criticized the United States, and current President George W. Bush in particular, on Friday for sowing disorder across the world by seeking to build an empire.
Gorbachev, who presided over the break-up of the Soviet Union, said Washington had sought to build an empire after the Cold War ended but had failed to understand the changing world.
“The Americans then gave birth to the idea of a new empire, world leadership by a single power, and what followed?” Gorbachev asked reporters at a news conference in Moscow.
“What has followed are unilateral actions, what has followed are wars, what has followed is ignoring the U.N. Security Council, ignoring international law and ignoring the will of the people, even the American people.”
Russian President Vladimir Putin and Bush say they are friends but ties have been strained by U.S. plans for a missile defense shield in Europe, disagreements over Kosovo and the war in Iraq, and competition for allies in the former Soviet Union.
Many Russians view the United States as a rival and enemy.
Gorbachev, 76, who left politics after the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, is deeply unpopular in Russia. Though feted abroad, he is blamed in Russia for sinking the Soviet empire and plunging millions into poverty.
“When I look at today’s world I have a worrying feeling about the growth of world disorder,” he said.
“I don’t think the current president of the United States and his administration will be able to change the situation as it is developing now — it is very dangerous,” he said.
Gorbachev said Russia’s hopes of building stronger ties with Washington had waned in the face of a series of U.S. administrations interested in building an empire.
“It is a massive strategic mistake: no single centre can command the entire world, no one,” he said. “Current America has made so many mistakes.”
He said the U.S. administration was apparently unable to adapt to a swiftly changing world and had ignored — or was unable to see — the rise of Brazil, Russia, India and China as economic heavyweights.
Treaties limiting the number of nuclear weapons should be observed, he said, adding that officials in Washington should be wary of sparking a new arms race.
Gorbachev, who became Soviet leader in 1985, battled against the conservative wing of the Communist Party to push through reforms that dismantled the one-party system, freed the press and ended restrictions on religion.
The father of “glasnost” (openness) said he supported Putin’s policies but that the pro-Kremlin United Russia party had eroded democratic rights.
He said Putin’s “seriousness” as a leader would be assured if he left office according to the constitution. Putin says he will leave office in 2008 after two terms in office.
Copyright © 2007 Reuters Limited.
Much as I disagree with his Marxist politics, I respect this man. He talks sense.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Socialism can be as easily corrupted as Democracy, which the Soviet Union demonstrated with great clarity. Nonetheless, in essence, a system that starts out with capitalism as its’ cornerstone, such as America, is pre-ordained to become an oppressive, fascist regime. At least a socialist society has the possibility of success.
relayer@q.com
The sooner our rouge politicians with roots in corporations and special interest groups realise we (the US) are global citizens, not global opportunists, perhaps we can redirect the freight~train~roller~coaster that is out of control.
Ironically, I think Gorb is right too. Another example is Okinawa. I was stationed there for three years. The Okinawans should have thier island back, and Japan is spending billions to “help” us move some of our forces to Guam. Does that mean if we give Okinawa back to the Okinawans, our Marines and Sailors died in vain? Of course not, because Iwo Jima has been given back years ago, and is even being renamed back to it’s old name.
In most empire building cases it didn’t work for Japan, Germany, Russia, the Muslims, or the US — as we are seeing.
Back to Gorb: I also love the irony of the statememt towards the end on Putin leaving office: “…according to the constitution…”
I’d hate America too if I lived in Russia today. The USA pushed for so long for a change to capitalism in the USSR that when it finally came, it screwed everybody over except the “oligarchs.” Hell, during the Cold War, Soviets were more afraid of the USA than we were of them.
But you cannot say that the USA’s policy on Kosovo is bad. Maybe if the Serbs weren’t committing acts of genocide, Kosovo wouldn’t have its special status.
The end of the Cold War opened tremendous opportunties for mankind. Europeans, East and West, were the main beneficiaries. The rusting half finshed hulks of submarines in the abandoned naval shipyards Sebastopol are a good example for the change. But America reacted differently. We wanted to create a new empire and make this the American century, with new bases around the world, and a new economy based on easy borrowed money, largely from abroad.
As a result of all this we see an economically revitalized Europe, including a Russia without foreign debt. We also see a booming communist China as our new rival and major creditor(if so, how did we win the Cold War?). And what did we do? Build more aircraft carriers, 300 million dollar fighter jets etc. In the process we have become the world biggest debtor nation by far, with a military budget that with supplementals, VA expenses etc. is approaching a trillion dollars a year (about two thirds of the total income and corporate tax collections, excluding Social Security and Medicare trust funds).
Gorby therefore is correct when he states that America made a lot of wrong dicisions after the Cold War ended. The damage done is self inflicted, and has led to the relative decline of America. Yet, we seem to be in full denial about how the world has been been changing around us.
George W. Bush seems unable to compromise or practice diplomacy. As head of a nation, one needs to learn these skills I think. It is especially important being the leader of a nation with the largest military in the world. George W. Bush’s “My way or no way” attitude is very dangerous on the World stage.
A few years late to the dance there, Gorby. Ever hear of a little neocrazy theory called “creative destruction?”
Welcome to the party, pal…
George Bush is stupid and evil… the men around him are smart and evil, that’s what makes them so dangerous. The United States is trying to take over the world, and all we do is sit here and bitch and moan about it.
Citizens of the world unite! Boycott the United States. Don’t buy anything “made in usa”… don’t travel there. Don’t invest there. Starve the beast!!!!
I think they should change the name of this website to
CYNICISM.COM!
Do we want to be part of a democratic world or are we trying to rule the world through military and economic force?
elmysterio, don’t throw all the babies out with the bathwater. We are the proverbial babies because all we can do is cry (and contact our representative).
Over the last two weeks, I’ve felt that things were hopeless in the USA and have written some very pessimistic threads here.
However, I’ve been listening to Constitutional scholars on progressive radio (especially Randi Rhodes), and I thought, most certainly, the Democrats in Congress are consulting with these very same experts on the sly. Wouldn’t you, if you were an elected official?
The flurry of subpoenas this week leads me to believe that the Democrats may indeed have built a 100% fool-proof trap, and that the neo-cons and Bushites have already stepped into it.
The good people in the United States have to permanently extract the neo-cons from government; metaphorically, they have to destroy them as a cohesive unit, as a stealth government.
And don’t forget: The people committing crimes to date can be tried well past the 2009 inauguration, which means we can still get them…and Bush can’t pardon them.
And what if there is no 2009 inauguration?
To elmysterio,
The backlash to many American international companies is intensifying around the world. Many companies are complaining that our foreign policies are having a detrimental affect on their profits. Many people around the world are boycotting McDonald’s, Pepsi, Coke, and other companies that are a glaring symbol of Americana.
elmysterio: “Citizens of the world unite! Boycott the United States. Don’t buy anything “made in usa”… don’t travel there. Don’t invest there. Starve the beast!!!!”
The typical words of someone who knows as little about the United States as many Americans know about his country. Misunderstanding and ignorance scream out. From my experience in Russia and elsewhere abroad, the average Russian is willing to give the average Yankee every chance on their first meeting (vice versa is true here in the States). Hating abstract America and hating Americans are two entirely different things. If the Yankee shows any brains or humanity, the Rus (or Persian or Chinese, etc.) and Yank can be brothers. Hyperbole like “Starve the beast!” is so pathetically limited in vision and depth of thought. Like Iran, most of the American population are very good people, but the 1% in power is corrupt and crazy. Elmysterio, get to know some Americans.
I believe the top priority for progressives should be to do what they can to minimize the damage the USA government and corporate predators do to the human race. As Lord Acton brilliantly stated, “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Though Bush and Cheney have done their best to make his words ring true, the USA’s maladies go much deeper than the insane delusions and depravity of these two monsters.
National boundaries and national governments are arbitrary. What defines the human species is not. We are all brothers and sisters, part of the human family, with the potential to become deeply connected to each other. And as progressives we should recognize we are members of that family and that we have to do what we can to protect it from harm, and as USA citizens we are in a better position than most to stop the predations of this government and the corporate menace behind it.
SoundChaser: Thank you for that little bit of reality.
“And what if there is no 2009 inauguration?”
Do you honestly think we’d just do nothing?
There are about 200+ million people in the United States just waiting for the next wrong move. It will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
The current White House turds would be shooting themselves in their turdy heads to even try such a thing. The support isn’t there, even from the military.
Stop shooting the messenger(elmysterio) and just listen to what he’s saying. Believe any or all of what he’s saying but don’t get caught in the trap of bashing each other. Slimshady also should be listened to, and somehow answered. Don’t think these current elected officials aren’t beyond refusing to hold elections. Read Jack London’s “IRON HEEL” to get an idea about an elected government that doesn’t want to relinquish power. The way most Americans follow like sheep it won’t be long before “brown shirts” are back in style.
Hoa binh
Gorbachev’s mind is incredibly clear. He and Jimmy Carter are two of the most brilliant leaders on the planet. If only the madmen in Washington had the brains to listen to them and consider that which they suggest.
Peace on Earth, Goodwill to ALL
————————————
“The time for war has past…
Man must change or die.
There is no other course.”
The World Teacher
http://www.Share-International.org
What can you say; he is only stating the obvious. I’m sure the vast majority of other world leaders both current and past think the same way. After all, only the most corrupt governments with the most blood thirsty leaders would stand with this Bush administration abetted for 6 years by his Republican congress.
Mr. Gorbachev is too generous in criticizing the US/Bush Administration of “sowing disorder across the world by seeking to build an empire.” His criticism implies that the “disorder” is the byproduct of a misguided imperial program. To the contrary, public statements of Condoleeza Rice and other Bush Administration leaders make clear that our Government is deliberately promoting, threatening and engaging in selected wars as a means of implementing our ongoing national project of world domination by force and intimidation. Very few Americans have taken the trouble to read our Government’s official National Security Policy (last updated in 2006), but any honest reader of that document cannot deny that the US does indeed have an official policy of world domination. And unfortunately (from my point of view), that imperial policy has overwhelming bipartisan support in both Houses of Congress. Does anyone out there recall this gigantic political issue having ever been presented to the American people for their views (let alone approval)? Someone once wryly observed that Mexico — with a nominally multiparty democratic system in which one party (PRI) actually held power for more than 70 years — was “the perfect dictatorship.” If we Americans were to remove our collective blindfold and stare at our own polity, we might discover that the United States is really “the perfect dictatorship.”
Dear Mr. Gorbachev,
The USA desperately needs a statesman to help put things right. Would you take the job on a contract basis?
“Stop shooting the messenger(elmysterio) and just listen to what he’s saying. Believe any or all of what he’s saying but don’t get caught in the trap of bashing each other.”
In other words, don’t engage in dialog?
Everybody here, from what I’ve read, is a messenger.
Of course it is sowing world disorder–but this is not news!
Not to bring more doom and gloom to the party, but tonight on your local PBS station the program “NOW” is featuring Greg Palast and “The Fix is Already in on the 2008 Election”. It’s on around 8pm.
As to boycotting American made products…no problem! There aren’t any!
BTW, what ever happened to “The Peace Dividend”? When the Soviet Union fell everyone was dancing in the streets…yippee kayay! Now we can finally spend our money on National Health Care and neuter the military and the CIA and have the finest educational system in the world etc.
Oops. Forgot. “The Peace Dividend” segued into the “The Terrorism Dividend”. You’ve got to give the Neocons credit. This whole “terrorism” thing is working pretty sweetly for them, isn’t it? Thank God the Democrats have been there to help them out.
I happened to catch Cindy Sheehan and Ray McGovern on “Democracy Now” this morning with Amy Goodman. There was some naysaying (probable Democrat) on the show saying Conyers and Pelosi are right to keep Impeachment “off the table”. Cindy and Ray let him have it pretty good. It’s worth checking out.
If only the US had built a doorway for the old soviet union leading to social democracy before a headlong rush into hypercapitalism the plot could have been saved. The effect of the US/Wall Street charge to build the new Russia in its own image was doomed to fail leaving behind a population humiliated and depressed. Hence its rise to Nationalism. Witness the lesson of History - The Third Reich .built on the defeat and humiliaton of world war 1
sure, and the US and its neocons think this is THEIR opportunity for world domination. It will, like Hitler’s end in defeat.
Here is a concrete proposal.
Anybody who knows or can contact Michael Moore, regardless of how you feel about him, try to convince him to do a documentary. Its title could be “Deeper Throat.” In it he would, with the help of all those in a position to help, attempt to identify as many potential whitleblowers as possible. Then he could do a serious documentary, building the case for the impeachment of Bush and Cheney. Whether this succeeds or not, it will be a lesson: people’s hands are not tied so long as their dreams live on.
Come on boys and girls to change America first restore democracy.What ever the short comings of Switzerland:- being a receiver of stolen money is one:- but it has a far greater democracy than America or any where in the world.
“…Though feted abroad, he is blamed in Russia for sinking the Soviet empire and plunging millions into poverty.”
An old saying goes: “A prophet is always without honor in his own country.”
Well said Gorby, -history will view you head and shoulders above those of an inferior consciousness (on both sides of the ersatz divide).
______________
Kivals, you have just written one of the finest posts I’ve read here for a while:
** “We are all brothers and sisters, part of the human family, with the potential to become deeply connected to each other. **
“… And as progressives we should recognize we are members of that family and that we have to do what we can to protect it from harm, and as USA citizens we are in a better position than most to stop the predations of this government and the corporate menace behind it.”
~ Brilliant stuff!
abbybwood
Well spoken, have you seen the youtube video by Greg Palast, Bush Family Fortunes: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy.
Well since the Repukes fixed the last 2 elections why would this one be different?
Thanks for the heads-up I’ll watch/record that program
Poor Mr. Gorbachev; he couldn’t possibly have foreseen the thug country the US has become under this goon administration. His willingness to continue to be a leader is admirable. Perhaps there is a world figure that can galvanize humankind into ridding itself of the bushcon infestation - we as Americans can’t seem to do it internally.
It is getting pretty sorry when a former soviet leader can credibly critique the US for “sowing disorder”–I guess this is a case of “It takes one to know one”.
Is Gorby still living in palatial opulence in San Francisco where he heads his NGO or has he moved on–anybody know?
Gorbochev’s comments make a lot of sense in the light of what is happening around the world. After the end of cold war America should have made positive contribution in the world for peace and security, rather than furthering instability and destruction around the world for its “national interests”. If we just look at what is happening in countries such as Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Congo, and Somalia (to name a few), US is playing a major negative role in these countries.
Just take the arms trade. According to an analysis done by the World Policy Institute’s Arms Trade Resource Center, the United States provided countries in the developing world with more than $12.6 billions in arms in Fiscal year 2005. According to the Congressional Research Service’s “Conventional Weapons Transfers to Developing Nations” report, the United States led in global arms deliveries for the eighth year in a row. The United Kingdom trailed in second with $3.1 billions and Russia was a close third at $2.8 billions in arms deliveries. Together, these three weapons exporters were responsible for almost 70% of arms delivered worldwide.
A 2005 report by the World Policy Institute found that of the largest U.S. arms recipients in the developing world, over 70 percent were undemocratic regimes, major human rights abusers or both. A recent report by the research group Saferworld found that in 2005 the United Kingdom provided weapons to 19 of 20 nations that had been singled out by its own government as “major countries of concern” for human rights abuses.
In late October 2006, the United Nations has proposed a resolution on the Arms Trade Treaty, which is aimed at curbing arms transfers to major human rights abusers and areas of conflict. The treaty also urges weapons suppliers to limit weapons sales likely to undermine development in poor nations. 139 countries voted in favor of the resolution, while 24 countries (including many major weapons suppliers) abstained and the United States was the only country voted against the resolution.
The question remains, why is the United States opposed to taking measures to stop this deadly trade? William D. Hartung says: “The first answer is strategic. The executive branch wants to preserve its “freedom of action” to arm U.S.-allied groups like the Nicaraguan contras, the Afghan mujahadin, Jonas Savimbi’s UNITA movement in Angola, (warlords in Somalia)…and (terrorist) groups opposed to the current regime in Iran.” According to the reports, America is funding Jundullah, a Pakistan-based terrorist group, to undermine Iran government.
The other reason is economic (i.e. control of markets and natural resources). Causing conflicts, civil wars, and thus destabilizing other countries is for the “national interests”. It is known that the recent occupation of Somalia by Ethiopia and the subsequent appointment of Somalia government have been orchestrated by the United States of America. Now the US-backed Somali prime minister wants to pass a new oil law to encourage foreign oil companies to return to Somalia. Royal Dutch Shell, Conoco Phillips, Chevron Corporation once had exploration contracts in Somalia, but the companies left the country in 1991. Salim Lone, a columnist for the Daily Nation in Kenya and a former spokesperson for the UN mission in Iraq says: “Somalia itself and the region, the Horn of Africa, is newly oil-rich. Kenya has some oil. Oil is the key to domination for the United States — global domination, I mean. But it is going about, you know, the wrong way to get that oil. The US is also worried that its welcome in the Middle East is diminishing, and they need to make sure — both they want to encircle the Middle East with the oil field, and they want to make sure they have Somalia and other countries handy for the oil.”
Therefore, the US with its military might and as the world’s largest weapons producer and exporter has become the threat for world peace, order and security.
Folks this article and audio from BBC explains EVERYTHING
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document.shtml
Elmysterio, you say don’t buy anything made in the u.s.a. When you go shopping, you sometimes
have to wonder if there is anything made in this country anymore. One of the biggest complaints
so many people have with the subject of immigration is that they are taking jobs away from
U.S. workers. I have no problem with people coming here who will work hard. Most end up paying
Social Security taxes which they will never collect. My complaint is the CEO who shuts down his
factory, throwing thousands out of work, just to have his products made in a 3rd world country.
where is the outrage over CEO’s taking away jobs?
Sowing World Disorder? Yes we are
BladeRunner (re: National Strike)
I have been stressing the need for a STRIKE. Other countries do it to good effect.
“How about a strike from the Friday before Labor Day to about Wednesday? What do you think?”
The only problem with that date is that people take off over Labor Day weekend anyway.
I would recommend, instead, the entire week of September 11 (Sept. 10 - 14).
We would need to organize! What is our forum for doing that?
(Common Dreams is too scattered of a forum. For instance, I can’t guarantee that others will read this and “sign on” to the idea.)
Peter C Schmid, above, is right on…
Obscured to most Americans because it is apparently obscure to pundits of all ilks (if not taboo to some for various reasons), is the subtle reality that even though the Cold War evaporated, the United States has remained on a war-time economy. The military-industrial complex reasonably should haved morphed by now into the civil-industrial complex producing livingry rather than weaponry. Money-world, perpetually short-sighted, has reamained blind to the incredible opportunity to retool toward the end of engineering and delivering world-around mankind into the statistically realizable post fossil fuel burning age. An indiginous industrial infrastructure biased toward weaponry invites the “might-makes-right” opportunism of those interested in the quick, easy profit connected with empire-building through perpetual provocation. The decision to turn our industrial base toward the planet- saving path of livingry rather than weaponry will probably not be made from the top down. So, if we could keep ourselves and neighbors educated, unpropagandized, and paying attention, and then find a way to keep the hawks from STEALING OUR ELECTIONS, the wisdom of the populace would eventually theoretically win the day. God help us all to get SMARTER real quick…
About the only time we get straight talk from a politician is when he is from out side the USA. Most of our politicians spout lies or dis-information. Generally strawman rhetoric is the rule.
Freedom Loving American: “I’m sure the vast majority of other world leaders both current and past think the same way.”
I think so, too, but WHY OH WHY do they always knuckle under to U.S. wishes and vote the Bush way in the Security Council or join in with the Bushie’s Zionistic unquestioning support of Israel’s illegal actions against Palestine and Lebanon? How can there ever be peace if other countries don’t put their feet down, too, and tell the U.S. to get out of the Middle East entirely. At least for a few decades.
The Senate just passed a Lieberman amendment warning Iran to stop supplying arms (things that “look like” Iranian manufacture) to Iraqi fighters and is working on the UN resolution that will no doubt be our justification for invasion, since Iran won’t be able to prove a negative. General Odierno is pontificating every other day on Iran’s smuggling “powerful roadside bombs and mortars” into Iraq and training Shiite militias, etc etc. What do you bet the Security Council will pass that resolution whether they agree with it or not?
eduardov: re Michael Moore’s next project. You can contact him through his website, www.michaelmoore.com.
Are you not going to print my comment?
Communism, socialism, democracy, etc… All forms of government or means by which a country is organized and operates work. The weak links are fascists that undermine the good of the people, exploit the organization’s methods for their own agenda.
At the root of Americas problems are conservative political religious fundamentalists. They run our elections, count our votes, produce the electronic voting machines, run our media and are judges in our judicial system.
Gorbachev is right about the dangers of our current administration. What we now see has been 20 years in the making.
pfutrel suggested a strike. The government would sit up and listen if several million citizens refused to pay the part of income tax that goes to the bloated Pentagon budget!
The comments about Gorby and Jimmy Carter were right on! We can add another person who is totally honest, courageous, and has well-thought out plans for good foreign and domeatic policies. He wouldlike to be our “Peace President” (Something we sorely need.) and he deserves much more exposure in the media so people can hear what he has to offer. He is not a slave to the corporations and war-profiteers.The press just passes him off as unelectable because he doesn’t look like a movie star and doesn’t have huge campaign funds. I think the media doesn’t give us credit for having brains and think we are too shallow to make judgements based on the ability and intefrity of a candidate instead of meaningless trivia.
I think there are too many in power, in and outside the US, sowing disorder, feeding their greed that as quickly spreads consuming our systems and legalizing the organization, yet they are the minority; the people are willing to work for peace. The power hungry distribute fear and related messages but we are no longer afraid; we will live and teach new ways of being, and reading and writing.
“Red alert: Our national security is being outsourced. The most intriguing secrets of the ‘war on terror’ have nothing to do with al-Qaeda and its fellow travelers. They’re about the mammoth private spying industry that all but runs U.S. intelligence operations today… the private spy industry has succeeded where no foreign government has: It has penetrated the CIA and is running the show.” Those are the opening lines to a recent article in the Washington Post by R.J Hillhouse
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/26/1410253
I like Gorb —
But I think he is naive if he seriously doesn’t understand that Bush and the neocons are trying to start a new arms race — !!!
A new Cold War and Star Wars profiteering.
I can understand that Russians felt betrayed as the rug was pulled out from under them and they were tossed into “free enterprise/capitalism” which basically means American organized crime was thrust upon them.
Perhaps Gorb trusted Reagan too much?
Speedy - how do you not pay income taxes?
Speedy - who is the person you are referring to? Kucinich (”Strength through Peace”)?
rocky — QUOTE: A general strike is a fairly peaceful way to revolt and it has worked in other countries. No one needs to travel anywhere or give up any assets other than lost wages for not working. I don’t think it would take a very large portion of the population to have the effect that’s needed. Before Labor Day would be better than after. If it were during the Labor Day weekend, people could still participate without missing out on as much work. Just stock the cupboards and stay home. Forums like this would be a good way to start the ball rolling.UNQUOTE
Who holds the “clicker/the signal” —
when do they come out?
The way a strike works in other countries is that you refuse to go to work, and you stop your neighbors from going to work.
It requires organization. Ideally, we have someone we can rally behind for this purpose. This someone would have the means to “communicate” to people to let them know. Someone who has the national stage.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the hits just keep on cummin’. Dig this in today’s New York Times:
U.S. Set to Offer Huge Arms Deal to Saudi Arabia
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By DAVID S. CLOUD
Published: July 28, 2007
WASHINGTON, July 27 — The Bush administration is preparing to ask Congress to approve an arms sale package for Saudi Arabia and its neighbors that is expected to eventually total $20 billion at a time when some United States officials contend that the Saudis are playing a counterproductive role in Iraq.
The proposed package of advanced weaponry for Saudi Arabia, which includes advanced satellite-guided bombs, upgrades to its fighters and new naval vessels, has made Israel and some of its supporters in Congress nervous. Senior officials who described the package on Friday said they believed that the administration had resolved those concerns, in part by promising Israel $30.4 billion in military aid over the next decade, a significant increase over what Israel has received in the past 10 years.
But administration officials remained concerned that the size of the package and the advanced weaponry it contains, as well as broader concerns about Saudi Arabia’s role in Iraq, could prompt Saudi critics in Congress to oppose the package when Congress is formally notified about the deal this fall.
In talks about the package, the administration has not sought specific assurances from Saudi Arabia that it would be more supportive of the American effort in Iraq as a condition of receiving the arms package, the officials said.
The officials said the plan to bolster the militaries of Persian Gulf countries is part of an American strategy to contain the growing power of Iran in the region and to demonstrate that, no matter what happens in Iraq, Washington remains committed to its longtime Arab allies. Officials from the State Department and the Pentagon agreed to outline the terms of the deal after some details emerged from closed briefings this week on Capitol Hill.
The officials said Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, who are to make a joint visit to Saudi Arabia next week, still intended to use the trip to press the Saudis to do more to help Iraq’s Shiite-dominated government.
“The role of the Sunni Arab neighbors is to send a positive, affirmative message to moderates in Iraq in government that the neighbors are with you,” a senior State Department official told reporters in a conference call on Friday. More specifically, the official said, the United States wants the gulf states to make clear to Sunnis engaged in violence in Iraq that such actions are “killing your future.”
In addition to promising an increase in American military aid to Israel, the Pentagon is seeking to ease Israel’s concerns over the proposed weapons sales to Saudi Arabia by asking the Saudis to accept restrictions on the range, size and location of the satellite-guided bombs, including a commitment not to store the weapons at air bases close to Israeli territory, the officials said.
The package and the possible steps to allay Israel’s concerns were described to Congress this week, in an effort by the administration to test the reaction on Capitol Hill before entering into final negotiations on the package with Saudi officials. The Saudis had requested that Congress be told about the planned sale, the officials said, in an effort to avoid the kind of bruising fight on Capitol Hill that occurred in the 1980s over proposed arms sales to the kingdom.
In his visit with King Abdullah and other Saudi officials next week, Mr. Gates plans to describe “what the administration is willing to go forward with” in the arms package and “what we would recommend to the Hill and others,” according to a senior Pentagon official, who conducted a background briefing on the upcoming trip with reporters on Friday.
The official added that Mr. Gates would also reassure the Saudis that “regardless of what happens in the near term in Iraq that our commitment in the region remains firm, remains steadfast and that, in fact, we are looking to enhance and develop it.”
The $20 billion price tag on the package is more than double what officials originally estimated when details became public this spring. Even the higher figure is a rough estimate that could fluctuate depending on the final package, which would be carried out over a number of years, officials said.
Worried about the impression that the United States was starting an arms race in the region, State and Defense Department officials stressed that the arms deal was being proposed largely in response to improvements in Iran’s military capabilities and to counter the threat posed by its nuclear program, which the Bush administration contends is aimed at building nuclear weapons.
Along with Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates are likely to receive equipment and weaponry from the arms sales under consideration, officials said. In general, the United States is interested in upgrading the countries’ air and missile defense systems, improving their navies and making modest improvements in their air forces, administration officials said, though not all the packages would be the same.
Ms. Rice is expected to announce Monday that the administration will open formal discussions with each country about the proposed packages, in hopes of reaching agreements by the fall.
Along with the announcement of formal talks with Persian Gulf allies on the arms package, Ms. Rice is planning to outline the new agreement to provide military aid to Israel, as well as a similar accord with Egypt.
The $30.4 billion being promised to Israel is $9.1 billion more than Israel has received over the past decade, an increase of nearly 43 percent.
A senior administration official said the sizable increase was a result of Israel’s need to replace equipment expended in its war against Hezbollah in Lebanon last summer, as well as to maintain its advantage in advanced weaponry as other countries in the region modernize their forces.
In defending the proposed sale to Saudi Arabia and other gulf states, the officials noted that the Saudis and several of the other countries were in talks with suppliers other than the United States. If the packages offered to them by the United States are blocked or come with too many conditions, the officials said, the Persian Gulf countries could turn elsewhere for similar equipment, reducing American influence in the region.
The United States has made few, if any, sales of satellite-guided munitions to Arab countries in the past, though Israel has received them since the mid-1990s as part of a United States policy of ensuring that Israel has a military edge over its regional rivals.
Israeli officials have made specific requests aimed at eliminating concerns that satellite-guided bombs sold to the Saudis could be used against its territory, administration officials said.
Their major concern is not a full-scale Saudi attack, but the possibility that a rogue pilot armed with one of the bombs could attack on his own or that the Saudi government could one day be overthrown and the weapons could fall into the hands of a more radical regime, officials said.
Have any of you joined the USW [United Steel Worker’s] Associates group? I did, and it is a very Progressive/Radical organization. If we want to get serious about a general strike, it’s is time to tap the existing labor organizations - at least the ones that still remember what a worker’s movment is.
The other two groups that come to mind are the Farm Workers [They certainly have experience with Boycotts] and Jobs With Justice who have also been on the barricades trying to advance the rights of the working class.
Middle-class professionals are well intentioned, but a strike requires a willingness to go head to head with authority. no matter what the cost. And, the middle-class still has lots to lose.
As for the neighbors and non-committed, at the very least they have to be able to claim fear as the reason they missed work. And certainly, most people with half a brain would think twice about crossing a picket line if those on the line were serious about stopping them.
Unfortunately, the fear tends to work against the middle class. What if they photograph you picketing? What if they contact your banker about an over-limit credit card; or talk to your kid’s teacher and your neighbors about the criminals seen coming out of your house.
Watch some of the movies made in the 30’s and 40’s to see what was done to those who objected to rampant Capitalism [Jimmy Stewart in the Best Years of Our Lives?]
It takes real guts to organize even a non-violent protest. Certainly, the bully-boys have no problem using a club on some non-violent marcher.
All that said, let me know when and where. I could help with some of the writing etc, but maybe one of the first decisions should be whether we are talking multiple local efforts, or a truly coordinated national effort…
Abbywood,
The Peace Dividend was used by the Clinton Admin and the Dem/Rep Congress to balance the budget so we could go on a weapons binge in the ‘New Millennium’ - what a waste!
Deepa and Whiterose seem to know the score.
The world of mundane cyclic existence is LIKE an illusion. All compounded things lack permanence…their essence is empty and selfless!!!!
These naive beings…RIGHT HERE…who do not realize this to be so, roam through cyclic existence driven on by the twelve links of dependent origination. Alas…
how needing of compassion are they!!!
Yes, Yes, Yes…the fat boys think they have all the answers and that they are therefore better equipped to make the “hard decisions” then us naive fools just trying to get by. Its all for our own good. Unfortunatly the “hard decisions” usually mean killing more people. Oh, the loneliness of the burden of command (I’m being sarcastic).
They are pigs…all the fat boys who think it necessary
to manipulate and run our lives for the rationalization
they are making the big decisions that we little people cannot hope to understand. Thieves always convince themselves they are compelled to act.
Alas, how needing of compassion are they, driven by greed, delusion, hate, avarice, compulsion, the need to control, and lack of love.
I know if I looked in the mirror one morning and saw Dick Cheney looking back at me I would slash my wrists.
Bush is very generous to the Israelis with our tax money. The U.S. government is offering Israel more than $30 billion in military aid over the next 10 years, which would be a significant increase over recent levels.
Why doesn’t the U.S. just take down “Old Glory” and start flying the Israeli flag instead. All of our leaders, including the Democrats, seem to be more concerned about Israel than our own country. Israelis get free health care, thanks to us American taxpayers.
I really hate being made a fool of like this.
The only fools are the ones blaming Israel for the current US foreign policy mess…. the Israeli government in recent years (especially under ‘Likud’) has been a tool of international fascism (incl BushCheneyRumsfled) rather than the other way around. Israelis have the most to lose from the spreading MidEast war, being in the middle of flaming Islamic fanaticism, and Israel has had a similar problem to that of the USA with unpopular sociopathic political ‘leaders’. Bush would more appropriately be flying a Japanese or a German flag, if anything not American, as he gives billions of dollars to Japanese military contractors (often via American contractors who in turn buy from them), hobnobs with Japanese leaders visiting Fascist military monuments, and enacting policies and attitudes of the old Nazi element that still hides out in South America and discreetly inside the German political infrastructure (which used to be business partners which his Grandpa Prescott) and trained the CIA with its nastiest tricks (like MK-Ultra), which are kept ‘national security secrets’ because they would arouse the outrage of most opportunists.
The Jews, once again, are being made the Fascists’ favorite scapegoat, and if you fall for the lies, you have been fooled.
Before and during WW2, the Nazis encouraged the Jews to go to Palestine/Israel, and at the same time stirred up hostility among Arab neighbors, including the Saudis and some Palestinian Arab groups. Today we are seeing a continuation of the same…. the animosity was fed by the Nazis, seeking to send Jews to Palestine and then have the Arabs kill them. The Nazis were quite skilled at warping and using religion to manipulate political opinion.
The Bush family’s policies have some remarkable similarities. If they get Middle Easterners (Jew and Muslim) to kill each other off, they and their international business partners’ oil companies get the oil.
As for Gorbachev, well maybe he was Russia’s Manchurian Candidate, and just woke up.
And in response to Brown’s comment above, when the truth about the Bush Junta all comes out, don’t expect it to be any prettier than the truth about Hitler.
RestoreDemocracy July 28th, 2007 2:25 am
The money wash between Israel and the U.S. government is so staggeringly corrupt, it boggles the mind. Congress appropriates an absurd amount of foreign aid for this completely non-viable, failure country (per capita, Israelis receive more U.S. tax dollars than American citizens)and then the very same individuals who voted for the funds receive massive kickbacks in the form of campaign contributions. Israel’s goals are obvious - the elimination of Iraq and Iran as potential threats. The Bush administration’s goals are also obvious - the expropriation of most of the oil in the Middle East. This peculiar collusion of interests finds its voice in the only unregistered foreign agent in Congress, Joe Lieberman, who incessantly bangs the drum for an attack on Iran, but never, ever, ever mentions the word “oil”. That would be rude coming from a good little client state.
Ladies and Gents,
I presume you have also heard of “Dubailand”? An amusement park being planned that is reportedly larger that Disney’s playgrounds here at home. Haliburton’s folks will have a place to chill Riviera style, built by themselves and Indian, Paki, and other slave labor like the US Embassy being built in the Green Zone. CSPAN just had a Senate hearing about the building of the 104 acre Embassy in Iraq. I wanted to puke. For those interested, do a Google search for Dubailand and the US Ambassador site to the UAE. The cheerie, Ambassador with the Alfred E. Neuman “what me worry?” smirk officially and freely discusses economic interests and oil futures in the region ~ the real definition of the long haul. CHING, CHING.
The United States popularity as plummeted under this rogue administration, ( not that it was anything to brag about before it).
Their is an excellent article over at internationalclearing house written by Chalmers Johnson which explains much of why they,( much of the rest of world),do not only mistrust us, but clearly hate us.
It’s a long way from the simplistic reason GWB gave us ” they hate for our freedoms”.
This is the link to the article:http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18071.htm
For those calling for a strike, how about joining the DC encampment Sept. 22-29.
http://mecawi.org/National%20Antiwar%20Strategy%20Meeting%20-%20June%2016,%202007.html
purvis ames:
What do you think Israel thinks about the $20 B arms deal to Saudi Arabia (for which our Congress will roll over and approve, I’m sure)?
US policy is dictated more for want of money, power and control than to support Israel, although you’re right, the money we dispense to them is sickening.
Iraqi exodus….
http://www.savethemales.ca/030203.html
Re: The DC encampment Sept. 22-29.
That’s an entire week. Obviously most people would only be able to make it for one of the days.
Since that means that one would be “home” the rest of the time, would not a strike (also, during that same timeframe) be a good idea? We could stop this country from running, if we really wanted to.
Strike URL:
http://mecawi.org/National%20Antiwar%20Strategy%20Meeting%20-%20June%2016,%202007.html
To: Restore Democracy - While in the middle of reading your post regarding Israel having the most at stake in the Middle East as it all relates to fascism and the U.S., I would remind you to take a look at the cozy relationship Lieberman (AIPAC’S #1 man) and the Right Wing Bible Belt wackos who believe that JEEEZUS!! is going to return after armageddon!! have. Just Google Lieberman and the far right Baptist religious extremist leadership in this country and look at how they just GUSH!! over Lieberman and he over them.
I found a speech he gave before their wacko convention and it was downright scary!
Comment?
Social justice in a world where bestial greed rules seems impossible. Hope the Internet generation is informed well enough to fix the mess ours has made.
Gorby is just upset that his government was the most corrupt and reviled in Soviet history. Oh, yeah, Capitalism destroyed Communism on his watch too.
Gorbachev is absolutely correct. But it’s God’s fault. He told Bush to do it.
I do not agree with the “New World Order” kind of analysis. Bush Sr. had some speech writer write that line and Bush Jr. is just to stupid to consider the consequences. He is too stupid to realize that there are consequences at all!
purvis ames:
What do you think Israel thinks about the $20 B arms deal to Saudi Arabia (for which our Congress will roll over and approve, I’m sure)?
US policy is dictated more for want of money, power and control than to support Israel, although you’re right, the money we dispense to them is sickening.
——————————————————–
No doubt if we sell the Saudi’s 20 billion worth of OUTDATED arms we (Bush’s jew advisors)will GIVE Israel 40 BILLION in the newest hitech weaponry available……
oldtimer July 28th, 2007 1:44 pm: “Bush’s jew advisors”
I am a WASP, but I find your use of the word “jew” objectionable. Maybe you could substitute “AIPAC” or “Zionist,” as not all “Jews” are for the continued occupation of palestinian land (among other violations of the Geneva Conventions that the Israeli state is responsible for).
“Jew” in the manner you used sounds like a broad-brushed racial comment. The kind of descriptor that leads to a mindset where mass murder on the basis of race/gender/religion becomes possible.
Shalom
General strike/boycott sounds like a great idea. Capital has far more to lose than people. The key is that people don’t need capital. Capital needs people.
The goal is a society-wide understanding that capital submits to people. So, for example, federal politicians use the idea of capital’s submission to people as the basis for legislation.
We can have an ongoing monthly one day boycott/strike. It gives us a way to refine the technique and it gets people into a cycle. So the organizational effort is recycled and re-used. We send the message that we’re not going away. Different people can opt in and out of each month’s strike for flexibility.
Surely others have experience in making these things happen. It’s just clear that we have to stop the economic exchange with capital before we can re-write the terms of the relationship.
someone wrote:
“most of the American population are very good people, but the 1% in power is corrupt and crazy. Elmysterio, get to know some Americans.”
most americans are equqlly scared and selfish. they were ok with attacking iraq with “shock and awe”
i have no respect for the ordinary american anymore. they do not care about the destruction in iraq, at most they care about american deaths. they can’t even question those americans right to be there, marauding. they think iraqi “insurgents’ have less rights in iraq then american soldiers sent there by their neocon masters.
and i think this selfishness is the same as we see in the israelis. their lives count, the palestinians’ lives don’t.
the americans and israelis are constantly reinforcing one another’s selfishness
Yo, oldtimer
Don’t attribute pfutrell’s comment to me.
dcb….
“The kind of descriptor that leads to a mindset where mass murder on the basis of race/gender/religion becomes possible.”
——————————————————-
Mass murder is exactly what they are doing to the Muslims and Christians!! Glad to hear you agree….
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/natural.htm
I have been reading about the “Israelis and the Palestinians” for nearly 50 years now. I have also done a lot of research on the issues and the surrounding areas’ history and culturs starting back from Ancient Egypt. My knowledge and grasp of Ancient Egyptian civilization and the critical role it played in the development of the “Abrahamic” religions is pretty good. The role it played in the development of Alexandrian Hellenism is absolutely foundational, and I am an unabashed Hellenist(believer in logic, reason, humanism and THEN spirituality that is consistent with these three foundations - - Plotinus being a case in point, regardless of Bertrand Russel’s opinions).
Hellenism is the foundation of the Renaisance and the Enlightenment in the west from the 14th Century onwards to the end of the 18th century.
Had the West continued in that Hellenist direction, then it would have truly been a light unto the world. Slavery, the “conquests” of the new world to “spread the word of Christ” and all the related human degradations were brought in by the corrupting influences of Judeo-Christian fundamentalisms.
The last real Hellenist articulation and experiment was the foundation of the US as a Republic based on logic. Jefferson, Franklin, Washington and others were out and out Hellenists (sometimes Hellenists are confused with the Free Masons, who also derive their inspiration from Ancient Egypt and Hellenism). Unfortunately, against his better judgment, Jefferson was later corrupted by the slave owners to consider africans as 3/5 humans, a concept that the hellenists of alexandria, plotinus, aristotle, Hermes etc. would have found revolting and against Ma’at - - Egyptian Civilization’s overarching priciple of Truth, Compassion, Justice, and Good Governace for Social Order and Peace. .
Hellenistic influence on America’s foundations is seen in the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution, where pluralism of thought are cherished as the highest ideals of a free people. It is emphasized in the enduring symbolism - - The Obelisk, The Reflecting Pool, The Pyramid and The Eye of Horus on the Currency, the Greek architecture on the Supreme Court building and elsewhere. The Eye of Horus on the Pyramid also symbolizes Ma’at - - that the LIGHT wants Ma’at and is watching.
I say “last” above because immediately afterwards, a new assault on Hellenism took place in the West in the 19th and 20th century by Judeo-Christian fundamentalism. We are now witnessing the culmination of what the fundamentalisms of all three “Abrahamic” religions always inflicted on the world - - unreason, illogic, wars and chaos - - leading to extinction of Life on Earth as we know it.
It is on this understanding that I am not surprised by the 60 year “Israeli- Palestinian” conflict, that has cost fundamentalist US about $3trillion and counting, and has brought the world to the brink of nuclear war. For how can any group of rational humans fight over a piece of sand (that is what Israel-Gaza-West Bank is in the ultimate analysis) that is about the size of, perhaps Connecticut or slightly larger(who cares), the place of domicile of the extreme fundamentalist “Serious” Joe Lieberman who claims species relation to the Human Race.
Can the world please edge back from the brink of a world wide catastrophe of nuclear war because of that piece of sand?
Also, oil can be bought at a reasonable price with certainty. To spend $2trillion and counting on war to get it with a chance less than 10% is economic and human stupidity supreme that only non-Hellenist “Abrahamic” fundamentalisms can display.
Peace
Aymon
Gorbo. Gorby. Gorbo-rama-lama-ding-dong.