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What Lethal Arrogance Looks Like
I frequently find it useful to analogize countries to individuals. States will often have personalities and behavior sets quite similar to human beings.
That means they can sometimes be noble and do wonderful things. But it also means they can be petty, greedy, violent and worse.
If you’ve ever known what an arrogant bully looks like, you should find the personality of Israel today quite familiar. But if you’ve ever really understood what almost always lays behind a bully’s almost always faux arrogance, you also might understand why Israel acts as it does.
In Israel’s case there are some very good explanations (which is not necessarily the same thing as justifications) – both contemporary and especially historical – for attitudes that increasingly veer into paranoia, expressed in an international behavior set that too often takes the form of militant violence. These policies are, however, far more than most Israelis recognize ultimately to their own detriment, apart from the more obvious death and destruction brought down on others.
But those in the international community who are contemptuous or dismissive of Israel’s very real security concerns are either analytically weak, normatively biased, or worse. That ‘worse’, unfortunately, is only somewhat less prevalent in the parlors of ‘civilized’ society today than it ever and always has been, and needs little provocation to rear its ugly little anti-Semitic head.
Still, regardless of what might happen tomorrow, we should be clear about what happened yesterday. If history has produced a people more afflicted than the Jews have been with racism, violence and even genocide, I don’t know who that could be. Jews everywhere, including those in Israel, have come by their fears honestly. It is also undeniably the case that Israel remains to this day surrounded in a sea of mostly hostile neighbors, nearly all of whom were not so long ago committed to the country’s annihilation. That is far less true now than it was in 1948 or 1973, but it is still true for Iran and Syria and Hamas and Hezbollah, among other actors in the region. And for Egypt and Jordan and the rest, the era of hostility is still not that far in the past, by historical standards.
And thus, though I am as little a fan of nationalism as anyone is ever likely to meet, I nevertheless believe it to be beyond doubt that there has to be a Jewish state in the world, and I don’t even object to it being armed to the teeth with defensive and deterrent weaponry. It seems to me that there are few lessons of history which express themselves more clearly than this one, and believing otherwise risks the prospect of renewed violence and even genocide.
That said, had it been up to me in 1948, I might not have placed that state in Palestine, and I certainly wouldn’t have countenanced the forcible ejection of Palestinian residents from their homes. But now it is 2010, not 1948 or 1880, and Israel is not going anywhere. Nor should it, for any such solution would be far worse than the problem it seeks to address. Countries like Egypt and Jordan have reluctantly made peace with that fact, and it would be helpful if others followed suit.
Regrettably, however, and notwithstanding a set of legitimate historical security concerns, nobody makes it harder to love Israel than Israel itself. This week’s murderous incident in the Mediterranean is a shock to the senses, an offense to humanity, and an outrage piled on top of further outrages. It is difficult to imagine any circumstances that could justify the behavior of Israel in this episode, in light of the alternative non-violent solutions so readily available even if the country wanted to prevent to flotilla from ever reaching Gaza. As one Israeli member of parliament herself said, “This had nothing to do with security. The armaments for Hamas were not coming from this flotilla.”
But, of course, this week’s events are only the top layer of a very poisonous cake. The existence of the flotilla points to a deeper Israeli outrage, which in turn is predicated on an even deeper one yet. There would have been no naval relief caravan to Gaza if there had been no need to bring relief to a blockaded Gaza in the first place. And there would be no Gaza as we know it today had there not been a continued illegal and oppressive occupation of Palestine for the last forty years.
This occupation has been incalculably onerous and humiliating for Palestinians. Moreover, despite the fact that Israel has withdrawn previously from the Sinai and Gaza, the character of the occupation in the West Bank and East Jerusalem telegraphs only one intention. You don’t build houses and whole cities in places where you have strategic security concerns. You build military outposts instead. The avowed agenda of the far right in Israel, which includes the government, is to fulfill some insane biblical promise (pardon the redundancy of terms there) that the Jews should come to possess lands in the region constituting a Greater Israel, stretching in the minds of the most deluded from the Nile to the Euphrates. Building towns and housing settlements for forty years in the West Bank and East Jerusalem not only smacks of colonialism, it is nearly impossible to construe it otherwise.
One of the great ironies of the Middle East debacle is the degree to which this behavior hurts Israel, not just those whom it represses and whose land it occupies. With the possible exception of the Golan Heights, there is almost zero strategic value in possessing these lands. Like America under the Bush administration, Israel has simply now become a country of many humane and decent people whose foreign policy has been hijacked by radical sociopaths belonging in insane asylums and jails, not world capitals. (Although that characterization of Israeli public opinion is less true today, as attitudes have hardened since the Second Intifada, and the disconnect between the public and its leadership is less profound – another of the region’s ironies.) But for a long time prior to that, there was a good deal of robust debate and sentiment for peace in Israel, certainly far more than there ever was in the United States.
What radical regressives (and in Israel we are talking about regressing 6000 years, far more than any Jerry Falwell ever dreamed) appreciate more than can be imagined is the power of fear, and how cycles of violence can be mobilized to make people do stupid things they wouldn’t otherwise. Dick Cheney, to choose only the most prominent example, wouldn’t even exist outside this simple premise. And, while there is plenty of blame to go around for the century of violence in the region, Israel has now been led by radical criminals to the place where it is the chief purveyor of that violence, which has become both the biggest stain on its international reputation and, again ironically, its own biggest security threat through the radicalization of adversaries and the alienation of allies.
The recent invasion of Lebanon (not to mention the one before that), the invasion of Gaza and the attack this week on the relief flotilla all represent almost wholly unjustified acts of aggression on Israel’s part. While any state can always muster up some pretext for war (“Saddam has WMD!”), and Israel has done so in each of these cases, what has become clear is that the country has left the earlier epoch of its history in which it fought mostly defensive wars of existential urgency (1948, 1967, 1973), and has transitioned to an era in which it is now fighting rudely aggressive wars, using outrageous weapons and tactics, and offering increasingly weak justifications for those wars (which justifications are anyway are rooted in the Palestinian people’s reaction to the ongoing provocation of an illegal and oppressive occupation).
In addition to the carnage suffered by others, in this way Israel has become its own worst enemy. I mean that quite literally, and not just in the sense of the moral outrage of the international community. The sad truth is that nothing threatens Israeli security more today than the stupidity, greed, aggression, inhumanity, and lately sheer arrogance of its foreign policy.
People are beginning to notice in places where they had not before. That big ol’ country to the north is less a turkey than a canary in a coal mine right now. Israel has long had good relations with Turkey, certainly its best with any Islamic country. But the Israelis seem almost willfully intent on alienating their friends in Anatolia, and they are succeeding admirably, especially this week. Meanwhile, the British prime minister sharply criticized the attack, and the US did that rarest of things, letting a (toned way down, to be sure) resolution emerge from the United Nations Security Council.
Likewise even in America. I never go in for the right-wing supposed honor code violations that call for heated response to the impudence of this Cuban dictator or that French president who has the stones to diss American policy, especially when their greatest sin is telling the truth. But I confess that it pissed me off considerably when the Israeli government announced new housing construction for East Jerusalem at just the moment when the American vice president was visiting. America (foolishly, to some extent) gives Israel a considerable amount of (my tax) dollars every year, and jeopardizes a good deal of its own security by the unpopular choice of backing Israel in the region. Would it be too much to ask that Israel, in return, not publically stick its finger right in our eye? That announcement of new housing construction, expressly contrary to the articulated position of the US government, wasn’t just a bad policy choice. That was a willful expression of supreme arrogance.
The list of damages done goes on. Israel seems increasingly intent on spending all its remaining virtues to cover the initial bad check of its turn toward colonialism. It is eating itself from within, in order to avoid confronting its demons. The war crimes documented in the Goldstone Report on the Gaza invasion give one example, the reaction to which among the South African Jewish community (which must be much like the American one) was initially to try banning Mr. Goldstone, an internationally highly regarded jurist, from attending his own grandson’s bar mitzvah. Meanwhile, no less than a former deputy speaker of the Knesset has expressed serious concerns about the far-right’s successful attempts at domestic censorship of any critical discourse in Israeli society.
Perhaps the most telling episode, however, has been Israeli reaction to the Saudi peace plan of 2002, which was reintroduced in 2007 and endorsed unanimously by the twenty-two members of the Arab League. The proffered bargain gave Israel everything it originally wanted – peace, recognition by its neighbors, normalized relations – and even more, since it contemplated a return to wider 1967 borders, not those lesser ones detailed by the 1947 UN resolution which partitioned Palestine and gave birth to the Israeli state. In exchange for this, Israel had only to recognize a Palestinian state and agree to just treatment of Palestinian refugees. It is a measure of the pathology that has overtaken contemporary Israel today that the government has never even responded to this grand deal – which represents a monumental leap for the Arab community – although the current prime minister rejected it outright when he was the opposition leader in 2007.
In short, the situation is grim, as this week’s events underscore. The cycle of tit-for-tat response has metastasized into a pathology of violence and recalcitrance in Israel’s government, and among some parts of the Arab and Muslim world. Shooting civilians on a ship in the middle of a relief mission is merely the logical extension of such a process.
And yet, these events could perhaps also produce some salutary effects in the end. Barack Obama clearly has little use for Israel’s antics, but is also clearly the most gutless creature on the planet with the possible exception of a few especially reticent amoeba hiding under a rock somewhere in New Zealand. However, Israel’s arrogance and provocations may create the space for even the feckless Obama to apply some real pressure. That doesn’t seem likely, given the power of the Israel Lobby in Washington, and given Obama’s overall uselessness as president, but it also seems more probable today than ever in my lifetime. Israel has simply gone crazy, and by doing so it is making it increasingly difficult for others to stand by it.
My wider hope is that the Palestinians have stumbled into a more effective way to bring pressure toward a passably equitable solution to the conflict. I deplore violence, but I understand why Palestinians have employed it, including the use of terrorism (notwithstanding that the term has been distorted and politicized to the point of near meaninglessness). It was successful in putting their cause on the map, just as Zionist violence (and “terrorism” – by the way – conducted by people who would later become Israeli prime ministers) gave birth to Israel, and just as colonists’ violence and “terrorism” (as King George described it) gave birth to the United States. But that said, and even apart from the moral question, strategically, the era in which Palestinian violence effectively serves to advance its agenda has ended.
What the confrontation at sea this week dramatically points out is an idea I have argued for a long time. Namely, that the Palestinians, who already have the vast majority of world opinion on their side, should adopt Gandhian methods of nonviolent confrontation in order to bring Israel to its senses and to the bargaining table. What if a million Palestinians went on hunger strike tomorrow? How long could Israel and its American benefactors withstand the glaring spotlight such an action would shine on the Palestinian cause, especially as martyrs began dying? Perhaps even something quite that lethal would not be necessary. Perhaps mass sit-down strikes might do the trick, or civil disobedience in public venues. The point is that such tactics would work, whereas violence against Israel not only isn’t working, but only strengthens the bloody hand of the monstrous hawks there.
Palestinians must also come to terms with the fact that their full aspirations will never be realized. This must be psychologically painful in the extreme. It is as if someone knocked on the front door of your house, walked in and took over the first floor and parts of the second, cheerfully left you a few remaining rooms to ocuupy, and then wondered why you weren’t satisfied. I think Palestinians have long been debilitated by the Hobson’s choice of, on the one hand, accepting, and thereby legitimating, the status quo, versus continuing to hold out for more, up to and including the dream of driving the invading Jews into the sea and restoring the homeland to their exclusive control. In addition to the horrors of what they call “the catastrophe” itself, I don’t envy anyone the additional moral dilemma of choosing whether and when to admit defeat as opposed to continuing their struggle for what they believe is justly theirs. That’s a very hard choice to make, and is always further haunted by those who have already sacrificed for the struggle before.
But history is history. There is no remotely serious prospect of undoing the Zionist project, with all its ramifications for the Palestinians, just as there is no undoing the Holocaust or the pogroms, or the much earlier forced Jewish diaspora from the same lands the Palestinians now mourn losing. I hope the Palestinians can find a way toward negotiating a peace with Israel that is by definition far less than everything they want. Fatah, post-Arafat, seems to be there. Hamas would appear not to be, but not necessarily implacably so. (The regional and ideological differences between the two are, by the way, no small thing. Indeed, I have long believed that the first casualty of Palestinian statehood will be the Palestinian state itself. Just as East and West Pakistan, separated by India, quickly transitioned from one country into two, so, I suspect, would Palestine become Gaza and the West Bank.)
The potential for peace finally coming to the region is not insubstantial at this moment. Some of the underlying conditions are even rather favorable. Nor should we be blinded by the magnitude of the project into believing that it is impossible. No one would have ever believed in 1970 that Israel would soon have peaceful and substantially normal relations with Egypt and Jordan. No one would have ever believed in 1940 that France and Germany would become, not only close friends and allies, but even partners in driving an integration project in which both have voluntarily ceded much of their sovereignty to a supranational organization.
But getting there will require that both sides, and the United States as well, adopt new approaches to replace the existing ones which are clearly dysfunctional. Israel and the United States have the upper hand in terms of sheer physical force, and are favored by existing conditions on the ground. They are therefore least likely to move. The Palestinians, who have everything to gain from change, must drive the process forward if they want it to happen.
My advice to the Palestinians would be two-fold. First, as described above, start employing civil disobedience and other forms of mass-based passive resistance tactics in place of rockets and bombs. The power of those images – especially today, in our YouTube world – are enormous, and enormously effective at gaining the sympathy of the world. My second suggestion may sound like a joke, but it is not at all. The Palestinians should follow other countries, corporations and the like, including most who need it far less than they do, and spend a boatload of money to hire the best public relations firm they can find in America, in order to give their image and their cause here a massive make-over. America is crucial to the Mid-East conflict, but American politicians are unable to do anything but reflexively support Israel, even when it is snotty and abusive to the US itself. That’s because the Palestinians have no image here other than as terrorists, and because their plight is all but unheard of. This perhaps can be rectified, though it won’t happen quickly or easily. But a change in American public opinion would free American foreign policy to change, which might likely in turn ultimately undermine Israeli arrogance and recalcitrance.
Israel, like America under Bush, has gone mad. Some of the reasons for this happening are morally valid and some are not. What matters, though, is how to bring the country back to its senses, especially now that the Palestinian leadership (at least in the West Bank) has changed sufficiently to do a deal, something Yasser Arafat seemed constitutionally unable to quite ever embrace, plagued as he probably was, I’d imagine, by the awful Hobson’s choice described above.
But I don’t think Israel is likely to change on its own. It has little incentive to, as things stand today. That change will require the Palestinians, perhaps via the United States, to force it upon Israel, but not by means of force.
If there is any silver lining to the events of this week, it is that they have illuminated the path by which that might be done. And, better still, it is a nonviolent path.
- Posted in




109 Comments so far
Show AllProf. Green, You write, "...beyond doubt that there has to be a Jewish state in the world." If you do mean, "has to be", since there is already at nation there now, OK. But, if you really mean "had to be", referring to its creation, I ask you what you might have expected from a militaristic religious tribalism establishing itself in a racist state among an indigenous population except what has happened, murderous fascism.
Tony Vodvarka
There was no militaristic tradition for Jews prior to 1948. Since their expulsion by Rome, they wandered, always choosing to pick up and move when things got too unbearable, never fighting. Even at the peak of the Holocaust, there were never more than a handful of resistance fighters, with some of the rest seeking (with little success, mostly due to Western, including American, refusal to acknowledge their refugee status) the tradition of fleeing, and most marching on their own two feet to their deaths.
Green is irrefutably correct to observe that the Holocaust changed everything, and changed it forever. If you don't see that, then you don't know what the Holocaust was, deny its scope, fail to recognize that the victim culture, quite understandably develops its own sense of those two things as relates to impact and conceptualizing survival strategies, or some combination of all three. And the reason Israel, no matter what it does, gets so much support from Diaspora Jews (who still outnumber Israeli Jews) is because, as a direct result of the Holocaust as the predictable destination of the curve of historic world treatment of its Jewish populations, they always have in the back of their heads the notion that having nowhere to which they can run with absolute certainty of entry and protection is no longer tolerable. Sovereignty somewhere (and Green is on to something when he says the best place may not have been chosen -- New Jersey always looked nice to me, but I digress) was the only choice. By 2010 that that place of sovereignty is Israel is reality and cannot be undone any more than we can give Manhattan Island back to Native Americans, and the only question for people who are serious about piece is where to draw borders, water supplies, and trade routes that will allow people to live and thrive, even if they make nobody happy.
Every survey shows that this is what most of worldwide Jewry wants, intellectually and emotionally, even though it reflexively backs Israel no matter what it does for the aforementioned reasons. Which is why I continue to argue that the biggest obstacle to America actually pressuring Israel to get it done isn't AIPAC, but the substantially larger and richer prophetic American Christian political wings, sometimes referred to as Christian Zionists, who have an entirely different stake in the borders of that region, and who not only don't mind all-out war, but actually require it. Their clout actually makes America a cultural and political stakeholder in the zone, rather than it just being about coexistence between Israeli Jews and Palestinians. They're the wild-card elephant in the living room that prevents this whole thing from getting down to a two-party negotiation between the principal combatants. As we insist that Obama speak frankly and forcefully to the Israeli government, we should insist that he speak just as frankly and forcefully to the intrusive stakeholders in his own jurisdiction, AIPAC and Christian Coalition alike.
By 2010 that that place of sovereignty is Israel is reality and cannot be undone any more than we can give Manhattan Island back to Native Americans,
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If you believe that, then you're bone-ignorant. All it takes is a piece of legal paper to transfer ownership of Manhattan back to the closest living relatives of the Manhattan people. And all it takes is another piece of paper to transfer ownership of Palestine back to the Palestinians. And guns to enforce it. The restitutive mirror image of the original theft, in fact.
But I don't believe you believe it, the reason being that I don't think you're as ignorant as you'd have to be, to believe it. I think it's just more of your Zionist propagandising.
The Zionist plan to steal Palestine started long before the Shoah. And none of Zionism's Founding Fiends was ever a victim of the Shoah. Some never lived in Europe at all. They were criminal psychopaths - thieves and murderers, cloaking their predations in high-sounding lies the way such creatures always try to do to confuse the rest of us. And their successors and apologists are the same.
"Who can protest and does not is an accomplice in the act".
Yes, and long before the onset of the original Zionist plan to take over land in Palestine, there was an actual nation of Israel that got destroyed by Europeans and its population dispersed. After that, expansionist Arabians came north and slaughtered anyone who wouldn't convert to their religion. And before that there were some shepherds who lived there before Abraham moved from Iraq. What's the point? How do you pick which date is the relevant one? Everyone's there, and they all have to learn to share, or they're all going to die.
Dear Mr Greenfield, Your version of history is not universally accepted and, speaking of "expansionist Arabians", many believe that today's Palistinians are the closest direct descendants of ancient Jewry.
How do you pick which date is the relevant one?
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Easy: the one encoded in law and principle. That would be, as I told you in another thread, either 1928 (General Treaty for the Renunciation of War) or 1946 (Nürnberg Principles; UN Charter). All of them support Palestine belonging to the Palestinians, and make the Zionists' Naqba a Crime Against Peace and the subsequent occupation and its atrocities Crimes Against Humanity.
Your desire to ignore both law and principle when they're not in your favor does you no credit. Your support of the aggressors rather than their victims puts you into the worst company in the world. You are on THE WRONG SIDE. What on Earth can you be getting out of that to make it worth your while? Or are you just one of those who doesn't give a good goddamn for anyone's rights but your own?
I prefer to think that one day, a single-state solution will be realized simply because the descendants of today's arrogant Jews in Israel and, most importantly, in the US, will simply awaken to the idea that a Jew-only state was a terrible mistake and they will open their arms to their Arab Muslim and christian brethren - who also regard this place as their holy land too.
And, to return to the world of the hard-nosed (per Mairead) they will eventually have to open their land to the Palestinians anyway, because Jews will increasingly be a minority in their own "homeland" due to the higher Arab birth rate. It will be just like when the South African white ruling minority changed their racist ways.
We can speed the Israelis to their epiphany by boycotting, sanctioning and divesting!
It's not "Jewish arrogance and violence", it's "Zionist ruling class arrogance and violence".
Psychopaths have no principles except, if you want to call it a "principle", to get whatever they want, regardless of the cost to others. Other than that, they only have tactics.
So they don't give a good goddamn about what was done to Jews in WW2, but claiming they do makes a good tactic: it provides an "explanation" for their uncaring, vicious behavior today.
The slogan "never again" appears to have been coined by the late Meir Kahane, who was a more-or-less-openly-criminal psychopath, and possibly psychotic as well.
EVERYone should read this post of yours, JA. It says things we all need to keep engraved on our synapses forever.
Until it's habitual for all of us to evaluate and deal with others based on what they do rather than what they have, look like, or say, we'll never enjoy a healthy world.
I'd say the killing and land grabs of indigenous people all over the world, enslaved Africans, the genocide of the American indians and the killing of women as witches and the never ending misogyny that women suffer all qualify as just as horrific as what the Jews have suffered. So enough already with the Jewish exceptionalism which like the American exceptionalism leads to the arrogance that Professor Green rightly deplores.
We know the pathology that the battered child grows up to be the batterer except for women who grow up to be victims. So there is a different psychology here between the sexes. Neither victims nor executioners is where we need to be and Israel has to stop being the exception to all the rules and the US must stop sending our tax dollars there to support war as well as stop our own abusive wars that kill mainly civilians.
Thank you, David Green, for this article. You have opened up and articulated many of the thoughts that i have held, albeit in an inchoate way.
The only exception is that I too have been arguing (coherently in this instance) that the Palestinians would do well to adopt Gandhian strategies of non-violence. The thing is, of course, it is so easy for me to say when I am not there myself, and I'm sure there will be many comments to follow from people who will despair of or mock the idea of anything like non-violence ever working in this situation. And yet, it is obvious to me that it has enormous potential, especially since I just read a very good exposition on Gandhi's political thought ---it is called "Ghandi: A Very Short Introduction" by Bhikhu Parekh, published by Oxford Press---this book is not at all elementary, and I highly recommend it.
I also appreciate Green's inclusion of the history of the Jews, which involved so much persecution. In my view, this gives his article more credibility than the one-sided rants against Israel. I think people lose sight of the fact that when a people is persecuted they don't usually come away from the experience as paragons of moral virtue, even though one would like to believe so. People who have been traumatized often act out the same thing on other people. Look at the plight of our vets returning from Iraq or Afghanistan, and how some exercise violence against their own families or others. I hope this perspective is now entering the realm of common knowledge. There are exceptions, yes, and my guess is that those exceptions generally come from very deep-thinking people. Non-violence is less likely to spawn continuous violence because one of its effects is to bring out (over time and with much sacrifice) the humanity and guilty feelings of the oppressor as they realize the humannes of the "other." Most humans are not overly fond of the idea of themselves beating on someone who refuses to hit back.
...and they just might get a ship named after them...
Green's article is typical of the lack of clarity so many people, particularly guilt-ridden Jews, have on this issue. I'm too busy at the moment to go into all the contradictions in this piece, but I would ask of Green one thing. When he says, "I nevertheless believe it to be beyond doubt that there has to be a Jewish state in the world," the inevitable question arises: Why must it come at the expense of another people? And why must it be a "Jewish state"? Does our progressive David Michael Green not realize the inherently reactionary nature of such an idea? Now that Israel exists, why not let the Jews of Israel have their Israel but make it a state for all the people on its soil? If progressives expect the French and the English to have democratic states that include all the people of foreign origin on their soil, why not Israel, most of whose Jews actually colonized the place and rid it of its native inhabitants? This is not an unreasonable proposition, but the only sane solution to the problem. Green still pines for the two-state solution, which Israel has done everything in its power to torpedo. Why so blind to the facts, David? He refers to Israel's "turn toward colonialism," as if the project of Israel itself wasn't colonial. The fact is that there is no fundamental ideological difference between today's extremist settlers on the West Bank and the "pioneers" who first "settled" Israel. The only difference is in the rhetoric used. Only when, and if, Israel and its Jewish supporters realize that the future of the world, if there is to be a future, lies in the embrace of a common global destiny beyond national and religious identities, will the Jews of Israel, and by extension those of the rest of the world, live in peace and safety. If people can't see that the planet's present, multiple dire predicaments point to this vision as the only hope for survival and peace, then there is no hope, and there will be no peace.
He very clearly said, very early, that he'd have established it somewhere else, not in Palestine, so as not to displace another people. He then said that as of 2010, it's too late for that.
If you're going to launch into criticism, and you skipped right over the premises and started attacking something he never said, I don't know how you think you're scoring a debating point. This would be a much more useful discussion if we all read carefully what the people with whom we're debating -- both the authors and the message board posters -- actually wrote.
Yesterday I wrote something on the boards of a different article in which I suggested classical non-violence. A minute later someone wrote back criticizing me for recommending violence. Most of us here should quit and join the Tea Party. They're very welcoming to people with reading and other cognitive disabilities.
Blah blah blah, Steve. You wasted too much of my time the other day with your glib sophistries. Go back on the campaign trail.
I can also see elsewhere, Steve, that you like to take myth for history.
As for quitting and joining the tea party, you sound to me like you should quit politics and become a priest, so you can give your sanctimonious lectures from a pulpit.
That's what the people of Gaza need. An American PR firm to clean up their image. I wonder which media outlet would display the new image.
The assertion that, of course, the Jewish people must have their own country and have suffered more than other groups throughout history is a blind view of history. Tell that to Native Americans, to African Americans, to the raped women in DR Congo, to the people of Tibet, to the million dead Iraquis, etc, etc. We justified the total destruction of ancient cultures in North America with the glib phrase "manifest destiny". Israeli culture is anchored in some thousands of year old text written when people believed the world was flat.
Much the same as the Christian cult. Israel, like the US, tries to hide the face of violent greed behind a mask of righteousness.
I am glad you raised the issue of exceptional persecution. I do not question that anti-Semitism still exists and must be confronted, but racism is not exceptional--it has many victims of all ethnicities depending on time and place.
I couldn't agree more with your comment. If DMG wants to see "a people more afflicted than the Jews have been with racism, violence and even genocide" he should go spend some time on a reservation in South Dakota.
Honestly, I couldn't even read past this point in his apologetics for Israeli terrorism. Totally lost my respect here. I have great respect for jews in general, and for jewish culture. Yet, Zionism is a racist ideology and Israel is a racist country. How do you get around that fact? They claim that land based on their religious books. *LOL* It's just ludicrous. And sad.
I will never understand why anyone needs their own country. It is no defense against hatred to form your own country that is based on hatred. A nation feels like a prison to me. We are the property of our states in a way little different from feudal servitude. My passport is a symbol of my chains. Wouldn't you rather be a dollar than a person, free to float around the world without restriction?
In these times of international problems, and international corporations, our nations have totally failed to solve the problems facing us.
Hasn't the nation-state failed in general as method for organizing society? Why is nationalism at an all time high? Why should we be supporting any nation? Isn't it time to try to think outside of the box?
What gives any nation a "right to exist"? Do nations have rights like people, or like corporations? Are borders static through history? Have we lost our minds?
I'll point to two interesting factoids. One, Israel does not recognize "israeli" as a national identity, only "jewish". Two, as evidenced in today's Bloomberg news article on bicycle transportation, our cities, our *local* governments are actually dealing with problems faster and better than our national governments.
I think that the overarching idea is "Try not to become the thing you fear." I would say that to America and I would say that to Israel. America indulges in terrorism because of their fear of terrorism and Israel is ghettoizing the Palestinians just as the Jews were in Germany.
So, so sad.
"should adopt Gandhian methods of nonviolent confrontation in order to bring Israel to its senses and to the bargaining table"
What you forget to mention is that such non-violent confrontations have always been part of the broader resistance to the occupation. Mostly these either pass without comment or are violently repressed ... which is then presented to the world as a violent demonstration. Protests against the wall are one example as are the demonstrations in Silwan. Emily Henochowicz recently lost an eye when hit in the face with a teargas canister fired directly at protesters.
The sad fact is that the world turns its head away from the injustice taking place in the West Bank & Gaza and will always believe the Israeli version of events. This may be changing slowly ... but without firm leadership from the USA (sadly lacking) the situation is unlikely to change soon.
DMG:
Nice articulation of the case against Israel, without the hysteria one sees so often these days, but...
I can't help but think that this is exactly what Hamas (and their Iranian masters) want: everyone rocketing around finding new and more creative ways to call the Israelis bastards.
Granted that Netanyahu and the IDF were criminally stupid for falling into the Hamas/Iranian propaganda trap... but it is just that: a propaganda trap. I mean no disrespect to the poor souls who were killed but they were only cannon fodder for the Hamas/Iranians, in fact those folks were hoping the Israelis would be just as stupid as they proved to be and kill someone - more 'martyrs' for the 'cause'.
Unfortunately this is not a 'Ghandian' moment, it is a cynical publicity stunt designed to attack Israel's credibility. This is what they want: to isolate and criminalize all Israelis (and, by extension, all Jews). We must not forget that the Hamas charter and the publicly avowed statements of their patrons, the Iranians, call for killing all Jews, everywhere.
Your general indictment of Israel notwithstanding, there can be no peace while one of the parties is wholly committed to the utter annihilation of the other.
I humbly submit that Hamas's charter position with regard to ending the state if Israel completely would be the same whether Israel leaves the West Bank entirely, so it shouldn't be held up as a stumbling block for Israel to grant independence to them. Israel's security concerns would also remain exactly the same, as would their ability to address them within pre-1967 borders. A case could be made that Israel's security would actually improve, since they could bring all their occupying troops out from the West Bank, and have them as soldiers again rather than as a full-time constabulary force at hair-trigger readiness in a hostile environment, not to mention the financial savings and logistical improvements. I have never met an Israeli who can convincingly explain why a continuing occupation is more secure than granting independence and adopting a defensive military posture. I can't help but agree with Green that occupation and settlement development is driven by other concerns than Israeli security. I think it's American Baptist prophecy that's driving it much more than the tiny handful of extremist Jewish cultists who share those prophetic nightmares, but there's no doubt that the unusual power of those cultists in Israel stemming from the multi-party political balance is at least partly driving Israel's suicidal expansion policies. There's no security logic by which Hamas's position prevents granting independence to Palestine.
Interesting point. In a rational world I would agree but in this asylum one side's fanatical obsession becomes fodder for the other side's paranoid fantasies. Neither the right-wingnuts now controlling Israel (DMG is correct about this) nor the foaming-at-the-mouth Hamas gangsta/puppets are listening to reason, much less each other. Add to that the barking mad Christian fundamentalist end-o-times crowd and you have, well, the devil's stew of chaotic madness that is the Middle East today. None of them capable or interested to actually bring peace to anything.
It is my belief that there will never be peace between Israel and the Arab world until the real players sit down around a table and hammer out the deal:
Two state, 1967 Green Line border, split Jerusalem as capital of each nation, no right of return but a just compensation to survivors (to be paid by the oil wealthy states who have consistently failed to support the Palestinians for 60 years).
Here's the catch, the real players are: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the US.
Your "analysis" is as dishonest as it is shallow.
The "real players" are Israel and the US. Nothing that any of the other three nations which you list can or may do will turn Israel away from its determinaiton to rid Palestine of the Palestinians.
You are simply trying to pass the blame for zionist treachery to others.
q
No, actually trying to view the Palestinian/Israeli mess in the context of the larger Middle East mess. Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians would be where they are without the active support of the patron states I mentioned. For the Israelis, obviously U.S. support is critical. For the Palestinians, it's a lot more complex and I won't attempt to discuss it all here. Suffice to say that Iran funds and supports Hamas (and Hezbollah) and is using them in its proxy war on Israel. Egypt represents the vast majority of the Arab world - and has a peace treaty with Israel. In the larger context they might be able to act as a legitimate middleman for a settlement with Israel. Saudi Arabia is included among the power brokers because they have most of the money - between them and the other oil-rich Arab states they could have, over the past 60 years, turned Gaza and the West Bank into a paradise. They have consistently chosen not to, why is this, do think? Could it be that they prefer having the Palestinians as impoverished victims to divert attention from their own internal problems?
The reason I call these states the real players is that no peace treaty can succeed without their agreement and support; neither dishonest nor shallow, just reality.
BTW by using the term 'zionist' you gave yourself away as a close-minded hack, you should probably do something about that if you expect to taken seriously by thoughtful people.
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What if a million Palestinians went on hunger strike tomorrow?
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How would we be able to tell the difference. Half of them are starving to death now thanks to Israeli policies.
Green believes the Palestinians should just suck it up, and surrender to Israel after ovet 50 years of abuse from the European Zionist migrants.
I have a better solution. Why can't we choose one of our own United States, one with a population and size approximating that of the Palestinian districts of Gaza and West Bank, tell the current populatin to leave, and turn that state over to the Palestinians. That solves the Israel/Palestine problem. Where would the current residents of the new United Palestinian State go? Why should I care? That is not my problem.
It would be easier to manage this plan if you make a different state for the Jews and leave the Palestinians to all of Palestine. If you take a hilighter and wipe it across a map between the Nassau-Suffolk border, through Brooklyn and Queens, straight across Wall Street and through the Holland Tunnel, and down Jersey to around Princeton including a couple of Philly burbs, you'd pretty much have it, as that small area contains 50% of worldwide Jewish population and economic interests that are outside Israel. It's also around the same number of square miles, and has a lot more water.
Sounds good to me. I just assumed that the Palestinians would be more likely to take us up on the offer. Either group would be fine with me as long as we can put a few thousand miles between them. I'm serious, by the way. Why couldn't this work? Of course we actually would have to compensate the displaced non-Jews but that would not really cost all that much, especially when we consider the trillions we are spending on warfare, at least some of which is for the benefit of Israel.
I don't think most of the non-Jews in this zone would actually want to be displaced. The United States would insure the continuance of their US citizenship, and extend the same privilege to their offspring. Who would give up all the access to jobs, lifestyle options, mass transit, entertainment, two hundred miles of beaches, a host of important institutions of higher learning, major medical centers, etc. just because it was being placed under the official rule of Jews? Most of that stuff is unofficially run by Jews right now, and nobody is fleeing.
"undeniably the case that Israel remains to this day surrounded in a sea of mostly hostile neighbors, nearly all of whom were not so long ago committed to the country’s annihilation."
Actually, Arab countries have been suing Israel for peace since the 1970s. Israel's response has been to invade Lebanon several times, bomb a nuclear reactor in Iraq, and currently use Iran to justify its "fears."
DMG should stop comparing countries to people. He only does so because he does not have a clue about how to analyze foreign policy and U.S. resource interests in the ME.
This man is pompous and pathetic.
Again, it's hard to understand what "progressive" means with DMG. His work is just part of the problem between what is left of a real left, and some "progressives" who can't get over being Democrats.
As far as bombing a nuke in Iraq, the best response is "thank you." Let's not take this completely outside the bounds of reason.
Right, thanks a lot for opening the door to our invasion and subsequent murder of all those millions of Iraqis. Just think Steve, if the Iraqis had gotten a nuke, our oil companies would never get squeeze out all that oil.
Our invasion was totally unnecessary. Saddam wasn't a friendly guy to anyone. It wasn't like he was the best hope of the Middle East against America and Israel -- he had other goals. Let's not rehabilitate Saddam just because America did something unbelievably awful. I'm happy he didn't get nukes. The wiping out of those dreams was one of the things that made our invasion unnecessary.
Logic, anyone?
Saddam was a hell of a lot friendlier to his own people than our troops have been. He was just a bit too socialist for the likes of the USA/Israel corporate fascists. If the dude did get a couple of nukes, we would never have invaded. Too risky. I suppose you're for bombing Iran too.
I guess, if we use your "logic", we should invade Israel because they have all those nukes and refuse to sign the NPT like the rest of the civilized world.
In order to use logic, you first have to have reading comprehension. I have never advocated invading anyone, so you can't conclude by any logic that I'm advocating invading anyone else.
As for Saddam, I suspect the Shiite population that felt significantly enough repressed to ally with Iran in the war between those two states would disagree with you about how friendly Saddam was to his own people, as would the Sunni religious extremists who are given such free hand legally and militarily in Islamic countries. The Kuwaitis and Iranians wouldn't be sure he was content to remain within his own borders. Nobody can sanely argue that it was anything less than the military superiority of his opponents that kept Saddam in check to the degree that he was. No, I don't trust a lot of people with nukes. I don't trust America with nukes -- we're still the only country that's used them, and not for worthwhile reasons, if such a thing can even be contemplated.
Just because you hate America and Israel doesn't mean you have to support Saddam, or the mullahs in Iran, who are anti-American despite not even being remotely socialist, and severely persecuting socialists within their borders. When you do stuff like that, ordinary people who might take an interest in joining progressive activities end up seeing a bunch of maniacs instead of intelligent people with a workable program.
This is what you wrote: The wiping out of those dreams [Iraqi nukes] was one of the things that made our invasion unnecessary.
You're saying that an invasion of Iraq was no longer necessary after Israel wiped out the alleged nukes.
So, by implication, if Iraq had gotten nukes, you believe an invasion would be necessary.
Logically then, using your criterion for invasion, doesn't it follow that because Israel has over 200 nukes, and refuses UN inspections etc., that we should invade Israel?
Also, to take the parallel a bit further, Iraq had invaded it's neighbors (one anyway) just like Israel did back in 1967. The Saudis and Kuwaitis were nervous about Saddam, just like the Syrians, Lebanese and Iranians are about Israel. Iraq was also flaunting UN resolutions---just like Israel does, etc.
And talk about reading comprehension!
I never said anything about hating America or Israel. Though I do hate the imperialist/fascist/corporatist policies of the governments. I never said I supported Saddam either. But I do believe in the right of the people to decide for themselves who will rule them. Ask the people of Iraq if they're happy we invaded them. I seem to remember an Iraqi poll done recently that found the majority actually wanted Saddam back---if given a choice between that and the brutal U.S. occupation.
You believe beyond doubt that there has to be a Jewish State in the world.Logically this creates some contradictions which you will have to address.
If a Jewish state is a necessity,it must be because Jews need such a state.Because of their emotional needs,security ,and a place to call their own.If Jews need this ,then all Jews need this. They need it because of their Jewishness.Logically ,if we accept your starting premise,all Jews in the world must migrate to Palestine.
Wait a minute,you will probably say,all Jews don't have to go there.They all do not need it as a country of which they have to be citizens.They will go there only for short visits and may not even like it much when they are there.The Jews of UK,USA,South Africa and elsewhere do not need it as a country of which they would like to be citizens.
If Israel was needed only for some Jews and not for other Jews,then it is not their Jewishness which made it necessary,but the hostile treatment they were meted out in some countries.Also because the Zionists with active encouragement from European leaders who wanted the Jews out of Europe planned to grab land and create a country by driving out those staying there.This would create a European presence in the heart of Muslim lands and near to the oil fields.Could it also have been prodded by a lingering nostalgia for the crusades and the desire to have an entity which would keep the Holy Lands in control?
If the need for a Jewish State was the result of the terrible persecution of the Jews in Europe,what is the moral justification for the people of Palestine, who were legally living there,to be evicted? None!The Christians who persecuted the Jews should have paid the price,not the Palestinians among whom were Christians and Jews living peacefully for centuries,until the Jews came to drive them away.
Your assertion that there has to be a Jewish State,would be justified only if the Christians in an act of atonement had ceded lands to them in Europe and America.
Yes there are states which are largely Christian,Hindu,Muslim, Buddhist etc.But these were not created by outsiders coming in and displacing the long settled people there.Pakistan which was created created on a religious basis has become a Jihadi hotbed.So has Israel.
The US,Australia,New Zealand ,South America were all places where the people living there were displaced.But these were crimes committed long time ago in the past and do not constitute a sanction for similar crimes today.The Holocaust,even though it happened recently,cannot be repeated today.
The fact of there being Jews in the world does not necessarily require a Jewish State.The savagery of the Nazis numbered among their victims many who were not Jews.A humane world is possible.The crime against the Jews cannot be set right by a crime against new victims.
There was no need for a Jewish State.
satish, excellent post!!
Thank you.
"While any state can always muster up some pretext for war (“Saddam has WMD!”), and Israel has done so in each of these cases, what has become clear is that the country has left the earlier epoch of its history in which it fought mostly defensive wars of existential urgency (1948, 1967, 1973)..."
DMG doesn't know a thing about Israel's history. Utterly ignorant.
Yes, this is the worst piece of writing I've seen him produce. It's a veiled apologia for the Zionist's violence that's full of bullshit by the 6th paragraph. It's clear he's been indoctrinated to believe the Zionist version of history and recent events. This quote is enough to illustarte his addled mind: "If history has produced a people more afflicted than the Jews have been with racism, violence and even genocide, I don’t know who that could be." Well, you might start with Africans of all sorts; then we have the Native Americans in both hemispheres; the peoples of the Caucus, Crimea and Black Sea littoral who've resisted Russian Imperialism for 200+ years; the Irish; and I could list several more, but you should get the idea. Just the number of Africans enslaved and killed by Colonialists alone comes to many multiples of those gassed by Hitler. The Iraqi Holocaust now numbers 3+ million, a number that will continue to grow as the poisons laced into Iraqi soil and water start to have their longterm effects.
Green has lost his credibility and will have a hard time earning it again.
Excellent point.
Quite correct. I can not see how anyone can suggest 1948, 1967 and 1973 utterly defensive wars.
In the former two the Israeli's were the clear aggressors and in 1973, Israel was defending nothing more then to hold territory it had illegaly seized in 1967.
If this comment is to be flagged, then most on the comments on this thread deserve the same. But since none violate CD's Comment Policies, they ought to remain.
I have to comment on two basic assertions in David Michael Green's article.
1) Green says that the Palestinians "should adopt Gandhian methods of nonviolent confrontation in order to bring Israel to its senses and to the bargaining table."
The problem is that they have tried such methods extensively, and they have been met with violent repression on the part of the Israelis, many of whom regard Palestinians as less than human. I know this, because I have talked with many Jews who openly express this attitude.
2) Green also recommends that the Palestinians should "spend a boatload of money to hire the best public relations firm they can find in America, in order to give their image and their cause here a massive make-over."
This is, to put it bluntly, a silly and senseless recommendation. First of all, PR firms of the stature Green is suggesting do not do this kind of work--not for oppressed left-wing groups anyway. They will, of course, do such work for right wing governments and organizations--because it is in their self interest to do so. But the second problem with this idea is that Green implies that U.S. public opinion shapes U.S. foreign policy. Nothing could be further from the truth, as far as I am concerned. U.S. foreign policy--and domestic policy, for that matter--typically operates in complete defiance of public opinion.
In sum, while it is hard to argue with most of David Michael Green's criticisms of the Israeli state, his suggestions for the Palestinians are simplistic, naive, and counter-productive. His limited analysis of possible solutions indicates a condescending attitude towards the very Palestinians he is ostensibly trying to help.
What is this guy's background, anyway?
I would say his essay is an example of "Lethal Arrogance."
Actually, they never tried it. A Gandhian movement is a mass movement. Hardly any Palestinians have gravitated towards non-violence.
Did I miss it? When did it happen? Who or what organization was the noteworthy proponent who was implementing non-violent resistance movement, and what degree of popular, institutional, or even media attraction can they claim? When did the mass movement among Palestinians to civilly and non-violently resist the occupation happen? Maybe we just have dramatically different definitions of "mass." To me, in a population in the millions, I'd have to see more than a few hundred, at least.
I am appalled by the percentage of people who post here who love violence, and who think there's an entity called "the Jews" that deserves blanket blame for so many of the world's ills. And then, incredibly and without irony, let alone cognitive dissonance, you blame them again for being paranoid for perceiving themselves as hated and threatened. I sure hope the decent people just don't waste their time writing here, rather than hardly existing, as it appears.