Obama’s Guantánamo Appeasement Plan
Two days after his inauguration, President Obama pledged to close Guantánamo within one year. The Republicans, led by Senators John McCain, Mitch McConnell and Pat Roberts, immediately launched a concerted campaign to assail the new president. They claimed his plan would release dangerous terrorists into U.S. communities and allow released terrorists to resume fighting against our troops. Fox News agitator Sean Hannity and Bush team players like torture-memo lawyer John Yoo filled the airwaves and print media with paranoia.
The Republican attacks were bogus. A 2008 McClatchy investigation revealed that the overwhelming majority of Guantánamo detainees taken into custody in 2001 and 2002 in Afghanistan and Pakistan were innocent of wrongdoing or bit players with little intelligence value. A substantial number of those prisoners were literally sold to U.S. officials in exchange for bounty payments offered by the U.S. military. A Seton Hall Law Center report has debunked Pentagon claims that many released detainees have "returned to the fight." And no one has ever escaped from one of the U.S. super-max prisons, which house hundreds of people convicted of terrorist offenses.
The Republicans have continued to oppose the effort to close Guantánamo. In an attempt to burnish his image and forestall war crimes charges, Dick Cheney now leads the charge, making ubiquitous attacks on Obama. Keeping Guantánamo open is "important," Cheney declares. He claims that closing Guantánamo would endanger Americans, and warns that if detainees are brought to the United States, they would "acquire all kinds of legal rights." Obama is also taking heat from the intelligence community. Those officials, like Cheney, seek to justify what they did under the Bush regime.
And now even the Democrats are piling on the bandwagon. Reacting defensively to the Republican attack campaign, the Senate voted 90 to 6 to deny Obama funds to close Guantánamo until he comes up with a "plan" for relocating the detainees there. "We spent hundreds of millions of dollars building an appropriate facility with all security precautions on Guantánamo to try these cases," said Democratic Senator Jim Webb on ABC News. "I do not believe they should be tried in the United States," he added.
The pressure has caused Obama to buckle. Timed to coincide with a Cheney speech to the right-wing American Enterprise Institute, Obama announced an appeasement plan to deal with the 240 remaining Guantánamo detainees. Parts of his plan would threaten the very foundation of our legal system - that no one should be held in custody if he has committed no crime. These are Obama's five categories for disposition of detainees once Guantánamo is closed:
1) Those who violated the laws of war will be tried in military commissions.
Obama's plan would backtrack on an early promise to shut down the military commissions. Obama now claims that such commissions can be fair because they will no longer permit the use of evidence obtained by cruel, inhuman or degrading interrogation methods. He fails to mention, however, that the Pentagon is using "clean teams" to re-interrogate people who were previously interrogated using the prohibited methods. When they once again give the same information, it miraculously becomes untainted. Obama also fails to acknowledge that those tried in the military commissions are forbidden from seeing all the evidence against them, a violation of the bedrock principle that the accused must have an opportunity to confront his accusers.
Even the U.S. Supreme Court has disagreed with this part of Obama's proposed plan of action. In Ex parte Milligan, the Supreme Court declared military trials of civilians to be unconstitutional if civil courts are available.
Prisoners falling in this category should be tried in the courts of the United States, because the laws of war are actually part of U.S. law. The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution says that treaties shall be the supreme law of the land. The Geneva Conventions and the Hague Convention, which the United States has ratified, contain the laws of war.
2) Those who have been ordered released from Guantánamo will remain in custody.
Seventeen Uighurs from China were ordered released after they were found not to be enemy combatants. But they continue to languish in custody because they would be imperiled if returned to China, which considers them enemies of the state. Suggestions that they be brought to the United States have been met with paranoid NIMBY (not in my backyard!) protestations. So, under Obama's plan they will remain incarcerated in a state of legal limbo.
3) Those who cannot be prosecuted yet "pose a clear danger to the American people" will remain in custody with no right to legal process of any kind.
These are people who have never been charged with a crime. Obama did not say why they cannot be prosecuted. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates claims as many as 100 people may fall into this category. Included in this group are those who have "expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden." They will suffer "prolonged detention."
Obama's plan for "prolonged detention" is nothing more than a newly-coined phrase for "preventive detention," a policy that harks back to the bad old days of the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 and the internment of people of Japanese extraction in the 1940's. If Obama succeeds in convincing Congress to legalize "prolonged detention," the United States will continue to be a pariah state among justice-loving nations. The U.S. Congress, still rendered catatonic by post-9/11 rhetoric, will probably capitulate along with Obama.
Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, noted that Obama's new system of preventive detention will just "move Guantánamo to a new location and give it a new name."
4) Those who can be safely transferred to other countries will be transferred.
Obama noted that 50 men fall into this category. It is unclear what will happen to them when they reach their destinations.
5) Those who violated U.S. criminal laws will be tried in federal courts.
Obama cited the examples of Ramzi Yousef, who tried to blow up the World Trade Center, and Zacarias Moussaoui, who was identified as the 20th 9/11 hijacker. Both were tried and convicted in U.S. courts and both are serving life sentences.
This is the only clearly acceptable part of Obama's plan. All detainees slated to remain in custody should be placed into this category. The federal courts provide due process as required by the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, which does not limit due process rights to U.S. citizens: "No person . . . shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."
The federal courts are well suited to deal with accused terrorists. Indeed, federal judges who have presided over such cases say that the Classified Information Procedures Act can effectively protect classified intelligence in federal court trials.
If Mr. Obama proceeds with the plan he announced this week he will empower those who point to U.S. hypocrisy on human rights as a justification to do us harm. Obama's capitulation to the intelligence gurus and the right-wing attack dogs will not only imperil the rule of law; it will actually make us more vulnerable to future acts of terrorism.
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45 Comments so far
Show AllWhat compromise? Torture's active at Gitmo, and presumably elsewhere. Isn't that like nice Nazis killing fewer Jewish people?
O's active expansion of terror through Pakistan makes an interesting picture of moderation, BTW. How does the Swat Valley feel about this "victory"? Feels like white phosphorus out that way.
I designed a Green Machine (Glass tower) that will produce enough healthy food to feed a family and requires less area than 100 sq.ft. and can be maintained in less that 4 hr. per week... See www.thinktanknow.com --- Frankbratt@HaveBrainWillTravel.org
The Democrats are such cowards. The GOP sez "jump" and the Dems say "how high"?
Any member of congress that won't defend the Constitution and support the laws of his/her country should be recalled.
Congressional Democrats aren't going to rebel against a popular president in such numbers. This was contrived to both deprive Republicans of an election campaign wedge issue and give Obama political cover to add to his rapidly mounting toll of broken promises.
Obama cosmetically banned torture because the world demanded it, but his detention program is otherwise not significantly different from Bush's.
An erstwhile, if undistinguished, constitutional law professor has become a neocon human rights violator and guardian of the sick status quo, camouflaged with fine rhetoric.
Siouxrose Besides from people playing multiple name games, I think the economy and wars are putting alot of people into near and into total nervous breakdowns.
Sioux
GLENN: Good evening. I did find it rather odd that you made a statement about employ at the DOD to which I gave a verbal nod, and the next thing I know I am in the middle of a verbal food fight. You were not included. That type of thing raises justifiable alarm bells. I generally agree with all of your postings. Have a pleasant, evening.
"I think the economy and wars are putting alot of people into near and into total nervous breakdowns."
Good point. That might explain the rising gun sales going on in the country.
I may be another practical Democrat but unlike "Nebraska Nathan1", even I know better that as a practical measure, closing GITMO is long overdue. It doesn't cost money to close prisons such as GITMO. With all the war spending already in place, Obama could just issue and executive order and just as easily close GITMO. Even conservatives at one point called for closing GITMO. Obama is going way too far in over reaching and so are the Senate Democrats who kowtowed to the Republicans. I'm leaning more towards feeling that the Democrats would have been better off losing in 2006 and 2008 so that they would learn their lessons of being too nice.
-even I know better that as a practical measure, closing GITMO is long overdue. It doesn't cost money to close prisons such as GITMO. With all the war spending already in place, Obama could just issue and executive order and just as easily close GITMO.
Marco Nanto, I believe you to be in the Dem majority across the US, on this point, do you not agree?
Closing Gitmo is "practical", with "all the war spending in place". Do you agree that America's PR problem could be "practically" solved by shifting prisoners more quickly to Bagram? Or perhaps to other, as yet unknown prisons, where they could languish without costing Obama such distraction?
-Obama could just issue and executive order
I agree on this as well, are we to believe that Bush could break over 900 laws(by some estimates) and Obama, the new "commander in chief" can't even command a single off-shore prison?
-Even conservatives at one point called for closing GITMO
Yes but why do you say "even conservatives"? Is Obama's preventive detention plan "liberal", in your view?
-the Democrats would have been better off losing in 2006 and 2008 so that they would learn their lessons of being too nice.
They don't seem to be nice to people that want healthcare, like other countries have. They don't seem to be nice to people that want peace, like other countries have...and then there are civil liberty violations and war crimes etc. Other than to the Republicans, just who do you think the Democrats are being nice to?
If you don't mind, I'm just a young voter if 25 years qualifies and last year was the first time I bothered to vote since I never took politics seriously but lived in my tech world of building and repairing computer systems and networks and learning UNIX programming in greater detail having completed college. That's what kept me away from the worries of politics. I only knew so much about the Democrats and have fallen under the impression that the only way to defeat the Republicans of their tyranny is to elect Democrats but I'm starting to see that all that is getting to be moot. I only know so much about the foreign policy issues myself and I'm trying to make it through my temporary part time job so don't expect me to be all knowing already. I do regret my vote for Obama but who knows who I'll vote for in 2012 depending upon how it all turns out though I certainly won't vote Republican of all parties. As for conservatives, last year John Mccain agreed to closing it before the election and so too did a lot of conservative Republicans. Time will tell if it was just a PR stunt or if they really meant it.
-If you don't mind, I'm just a young voter if 25 years qualifies and last year was the first time I bothered to vote since I never took politics seriously
I applaud your taking politics seriously. This makes you sound rather typical as well, If Obama did anything, He got Americans motivated to vote. I'll leave it at that.
-so don't expect me to be all knowing already
Marco Nanto, please look to my responding to you, as confirmation that you succeeded in motivating me to reply, and part of why I am writing this is because I know that I will never be all knowing.
-Time will tell
This is true! Question is, will we be able to tell time?
"Marco Nanto, please look to my responding to you, as confirmation that you succeeded in motivating me to reply, and part of why I am writing this is because I know that I will never be all knowing."
Ok, my apologies. I just can't help but have to put up with watching the fighting between Sioux Rose and NebraskaNathan1 on these threads. Both of them are getting too negative and personal. In fact, it looks no different from watching Dennis Kucinich and a typical DLC Democrat fighting each other on the issue of centrist vs leftist. Between the centrists and the leftists in the party, I have a hard time trying to decide who to side with. On the one hand, the far leftists will call the centrists rightwing-lite while the centrists will call the leftists spoilers for the rightwing and engage in accusing them of helping the Right win. We have a golden opportunity to come together and pass EFCA which even the DLC ironically agrees with but where's that going these days? We still have a chance to pass single payer healthcare but despite some earlier common agreement on the need for public healthcare, it's all going back to favoring the big drug and insurance companies. I have often gotten fed up with politics when one side or another engages in negative talk and hurting others just because of their views. I see NN and SR doing their worst of it and I say that it has to stop. Perhaps one side could try to reason with the other but I'm seeing none of it. I wouldn't be surprised to see the conservatives reading all this and laughing all the way.
Sioux Rose
MARCO: If you have something to say to me, say it to me directly. I do not like this reference to a poster, any poster, in the 3rd person. Nor am I sure of who you say you are. A few people (and I suspect the SAME few using a number of screen names to make their numbers look more impressive) have been circling me like hunters. Women, in general, and astologers in specific, have been targets for a long time. So I do not take personal attacks gently. Anyone who wishes to debate me on solid ground, go for it. All the other petty, "he said, she said" when I WAS THE ONE INITIALLY and REPEATEDLY attacked is just nonsensical hearsay made to make me look like I am on the same wavelength as my attacker.
I truly apologize to the CD forum. It is NOT my wish to tie up threads with this nonsense, but there is something fishy going on and it has been directed at me. Now perhaps we can get back to our regular programming, i.e. the ISSUE the thread invites us to discuss!!!
I apologize if I did not respond to you directly. However, I personally did not feel that it was my job to intervene between you and NN but I just wanted to get a bad thought out of my mind and see who could help me think a little better here and jlock helped me out. I did not feel comfortable asking you. I'm not directing any attacks at you or NN. I was just trying to get through the fighting parts of these threads so that I could have a thoughtful discussion. I may reply when discussing an issue but nothing personal. I know women have been attacked for ages but I didn't know astrologers too. One thing to ask about astrology is are there any male astrologers or is it female only and I ask only out of curiosity? I have nothing against you or women, honest.
-golden opportunity to come together and pass EFCA which even the DLC ironically agrees with
Yeah, it is funny how US elected officials can say they are "for" something, but magically they vote the way their lobbyists tell them to. Other countries have dealt with this proble with something called campaign finance reform. the goal is to have one person - one vote, not one dollar - one vote. If you want it, vote for politicians who want it, in a country of 300 million, it should not be hard to find a few hundred to fill congress (hint, you won't see them on CNN and FOX).
-the far leftists will call the centrists rightwing-lite while the centrists will call the leftists spoilers for the rightwing and engage in accusing them of helping the Right win
Me, I think they are all nuts. Ask anyone outside the US if what Obama or Pelosi is doing is "left wing" and they will laugh. Yeah, torture camps and illegal wiretapping are SO left wing.
-We still have a chance to pass single payer healthcare
I disagree with you there my friend. Your goose was cooked the day you put the Dems in power(I hope I'm wrong). We've had single payer since before I can remember, it is brilliant, but there is no chance the lobbyists who pay for your congress will allow it. The Greens, they support it, ah...but they don't have the lobbyist cash to advertise on TV, so perhaps the Republicans will enact it? No, I don't think so either.
-I have often gotten fed up with politics when one side or another engages in negative talk and hurting others just because of their views
Yes there is more of that everywhere, I think though, the trick is to discern how much of the negative politics is real, and how much is just show. Much of the time the negativity is solely to distract from what is really going on. Take the multibillion dollar payout to the banks. There was a lot of huffing and puffing but in the end your grand kids are going to be paying taxes on the biggest debt and deficit in US history, despite the fact that it was massively unpopular.
-I see NN and SR doing their worst of it and I say that it has to stop.
Well Sioux Rose, whoever she is, is a long time poster, she has her own spirit she brings to this forum. I have learned (the hard way) that it is unwise to discount the views of others, just because they are expressed in a fashion that is unfamiliar.
NebraskaNathan1, I don't think much of what he has put up so far, I guess his posts just seem boring and mean spirited to me.
Sioux Rose
JLOCKE: Thank you for the defense. I am published widely under SIOUX ROSE so that IS who I SAY I am, unlike a variety of posters on this site, some of whom morph into other names to throw barbs and then go back to hiding in the underbrush, their prefered territory. Nathan, as you have witnessed, has repeatedly baited me, and thrown insults. Nor has he anything of value to add to this forum. Nor will the likes of a dumb-bell like he manage to get me off this site, though I suspect that is his intention. Nor is he alone.
Hi Sioux Rose,
"I am published widely under SIOUX ROSE so that IS who I SAY I am"
Sioux Rose, forgive me, but I am only familiar with you, through this forum. You have been a persistent presence here as (for better or for worse) so have I.
"a variety of posters on this site, some of whom morph into other names to throw barbs and then go back to hiding"
Yes, I understand that, however, all I can do is deal with what is on the printed screen. I have neither the capacity or the inclination to play detective. Some may find multiply aliases amusing, or convincing, or perhaps they think they are being patriotic message force multipliers (hey I know how you Americans think!) but I have made do with one screen name and stuck to the ideas and arguments I see on the screen.
"Nathan, as you have witnessed, has repeatedly baited me, and thrown insults. Nor has he anything of value to add to this forum"
I have glanced at some of his posts. Very quickly I saw terminology or attitude that disuaded me from spending much time on him. I have not read much of this thread for that reason so I can't comment on specifics.
I post here to better make sense of my thoughts in the political realm, and to better express my curiosity towards the world we live in, with the help of you and others here. I started reading commondreams, articles and posts, because I found the majority of views here more accesible than most American sites, where to a non American the prevailing opinions seem jingoistic almost totalitarian in their intolerance. I hope, for these reasons, that commondreams continues in its mission for the greater good.
"Well Sioux Rose, whoever she is, is a long time poster, she has her own spirit she brings to this forum. I have learned (the hard way) that it is unwise to discount the views of others, just because they are expressed in a fashion that is unfamiliar."
NN sounds cranky and insane as well as blind-folded judging by his own posts. Sadly, this country is full of so many like him or we wouldn't be having to choose unqualified candidates like Bush and Obama. I don't know much about Sioux Rose since I have only been here so long but I have seen her get too upset and reacting even to the point of grouping and classifying her perceived enemies and I could see where that's possible. However, on another thread under "Colin Powell Skates Free on Torture by Robert Parry", she mistook Kyle Jamerson as somehow conspiring with NN, god knows why, even when KJ never attacked SR in any way whatsoever. I don't know if she's always this way but I thought that over the weekend, both KJ and WJM both gave excellent arguments about the good and the bad of capitalism and socialism. But here's the problem and I notice this pattern on a lot of blogs. If someone is here long enough, they have clout whereas someone who's new is often cast aside unless he or she has something really impressive to say, good or bad. This is where discussions go bad. Often times, the new users won't feel that they're being able to relate and will often leave out of feeling excluded. The users with the clout will usually feel that they hold the floor or their supporters will make it that way. I'm not suggesting that SR is wrong or anything but the flaw I find with online communications is that unlike meeting people face to face, in online communities, one is often cast aside unless they post significantly enough to make a splash of an impression. In fact, unless she has anything to say nicely to me, I would rather her not tell me anything at all. I like your style of communications by the way because unlike some others, you're able to see all sides of the equation. Another problem is that negativity often trumps positive discussion which I discussed in the thread under "Colin Powell Skates Free on Torture by Robert Parry" in my reply to KJ. I have no hard feelings against anyone no matter their behavior and I do not believe in name calling or issuing threats even if someone tries to push me to it. I have been working on improving the art of positive thinking and discussions and trying to minimize the negativity.
Sioux Rose
Ah, Marco, it is not so easy to fool a spiritual adept. I had you pegged for being part of the tag team, made a little note to myself. And all this BS where you go to such lengths to make yourself SEEM the neutral party, trying to put my business into this thread. Don't you fools have real lives? Or is someone paying you? I call the game and suddenly Max reappears and tries to be nice to me after a blood fest? And you posing as the naive college boy. Give me a break.
I would just as soon speak about THE ISSUES in this thread. However, with your little psychic gang bang aimed at me, it makes that difficult. I find it curious how you all sound alike, and how many "new names" you just drop onto this site. The whole BS about Nebraska beating his wife who just turns out to be married to the new poster, who says he's a lawyer but doesn't seem to have much depth of thought, well, it all smokes of play-acting to me. You're not as transparent as you may think.
"Ah, Marco, it is not so easy to fool a spiritual adept. I had you pegged for being part of the tag team, made a little note to myself. And all this BS where you go to such lengths to make yourself SEEM the neutral party, trying to put my business into this thread. Don't you fools have real lives? Or is someone paying you? I call the game and suddenly Max reappears and tries to be nice to me after a blood fest? And you posing as the naive college boy. Give me a break. "
For the sake of being nice, I am going to assume that you were just joking. Otherwise, I have nothing more to say on that matter except that I was trying to understand people on this site better and because I was afraid of both you and NN, I turned to someone who sounded like maybe I could get a good answer from and he helped me out. I didn't that you were a long term poster or that you were that much into spirits. I just explained that I did not feel comfortable with you or NN getting into negative attacking and that it was in fact counterproductive. Perhaps you might be better off taking a vacation from the computer and cooling off a little before you engage in negative attacking. This is why I didn't feel comfortable talking to you and for your own information I already finished college. And what does maxpayne showing up here on the thread have anything to do with this? I have met overprotective people similar to you and may I suggest that you take some time off the computer and get some fresh air? You remind me of Richard Nixon who used to add people who questioned him to his wanted list.
"I would just as soon speak about THE ISSUES in this thread. However, with your little psychic gang bang aimed at me, it makes that difficult. I find it curious how you all sound alike, and how many "new names" you just drop onto this site. The whole BS about Nebraska beating his wife who just turns out to be married to the new poster, who says he's a lawyer but doesn't seem to have much depth of thought, well, it all smokes of play-acting to me. You're not as transparent as you may think."
You're overgeneralizing who I am and am completely mistaking me. I don't know who's aiming what at you but count me out. I don't know how many people drop how many new names on this site but I'm not one of them. I was just telling jlock123 that I was sick and tired of hearing all the negative attacks especially between you and NN and didn't know who to tell it to. I don't know where you base your assumption that we all sound alike but I find you sounding like you have multiple personalities as of this writing. Do you even take the time to actually go out and talk to anyone outside the computer because from your all day posting, I'm assuming that the answer is no ? As much as I respect you, I do not condone your attitude. And for your own information, I have responded to a few of your posts solely on the issues and directly to you because that was where I felt comfortable responding directly to you. I don't like being treated as if I'm some little boy. I'll leave you to respond to this any way you want and you're free to attack me as negatively as you please. I think that it is best for me and the others on this forum if I ignore you. I see that mentioning your name even when I had nothing personal against you whatsoever made you vomit.
Marco, right on. I think that the main reason online negativity builds up is when people respond, the first thing they do is look at the user's name and then do all the prejudging and that's where clout and personal attacks come into play. I've had my moments but not as often as some of the regulars on this site. Rarely is it easy to come across people who will actually read the contents of the post and respond based on that and not go personal about it. Thomas More is an excellent example. Agree or disagree, he'll usually post pleasant even if opposing responses. I admit I looked at his posts some more to figure out how to get better at all this posting. I know that there will always be users on this site who will never be tolerant or understand that each of us can change from time to time. What I think has to happen for us progressives and liberals and independents is we have to unite where we can find common ground and try our best to put aside the minor differences rather than taking the minor differences and unfairly labelling us as enemies. I don't post here a lot so I could care less if I'm on everyone's hate list.
Thomas More? I think I came across him once. He sounds interesting. All I was trying to get at was dealing with negative attacking and it appears that I too am suddenly added to Sioux Rose's "pegged list". If she wants attention, attacking people isn't the answer. It's as if she's trying to preemptively attack anyone who simply disagrees with her. I just went through these threads and I wish that she would lay off her negative attacking and keep her personal problems to herself. I have nothing against her. What is it with some people? Are they afraid big brother is watching ? If that was the case, things would have been worse by now. If she wants to attack me again for not talking straight to her, so be it.
-These are people who have never been charged with a crime. Obama did not say why they cannot be prosecuted
It is difficult to convict people in a court of law, who are not guilty, herein lies Obama's dilemma.
Fortunately for him, in his "new" view of "counter terrorism" Obama can pick and choose which prisoners get trials, which ones get kangaroo courts, and which ones simply stay in jail.
Do not be fooled by the mantras of "closing" or "not closing Gitmo". It is irrelevant where the Gitmo prisoners are tried as long as they are tried in absolute consonance with our Constitution which I believe is binding on US Governments everywhere in the world and on every person regardless of nationality. I believe that the framers of the Constitution wanted to show the world that this emerging nation was different from vile Albion. Sadly, our much-deluded president does not get it.
Obama tried to get funds to close gitmo. His fellow democrats in congress said no. They were politically afraid. Released detainees in max secure prisons will threaten no one. Democrats and Republicans show some spine and help close the torture chambers in Guantanimo that giveus a bad name in the world.
Over the years, they have released HUNDREDS of p[eople from Guantanamo and other detention facilities, because they found that they had rounded up countless people who had little or nothing to do with terrorism.
It is possible that a few of them eventually found their way to a battlefield, but at least that gives us an opportunity to end their commitment to our destruction with a bullet or a missile.
Unfortunately, many of the people still being held cannot be convicted in a FAIR trial, because the evidence against them was obtained by hearsay, torture and/or coercion.
Finally, after all of these years if there are a few who cannot be dumped in some far-off corner of the world where they can do little harm like the mountains of Tora Bora in mid-Winter, or a few who are determined to dedicate their lives to destroying Americans, can't they be considered MENTALLY ILL and incarcerated in a padded room somewhere until such time that they are too old and feeble to do anyone any harm?
As for the majority of the arguments being used against their release or placing them in SuperMax prisons, those people doing the arguing are obviously doing so for political points.
If anybody views this as anything else but a complete sellout by the Democratic party for their President, they are sadly mistaken. This furthers the belief that the Democrats would sell out their mothers. This is a non-issue. It is a spineless, diversional, setup by Republicans, and their Corporate fascist money men to intimidate not just a BS political party but the whole damn population of beer swilling couch potatoes that call themselves Americans.
Well, I'm sorry. But as far as my telescope on the human race can see here is chicken fat.
We need to jam this society up. Shut it down by not doing what we are expected to do. We need to get up, stand on our collective 320 million pairs of legs and say "NO MORE!."
Then we take care of ourselves on an equal footing. 'F' Corporate fascism in this country. If you are Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Atheist, Muslim, Christian, Pagan, Witch, Gay...It doesn't matter. You are still having your country dissolve beneath your feet.
Adios.
This furthers the belief that the Democrats would sell out their mothers . . .
. . . and their fathers and their children.
A 2008 McClatchy investigation revealed that the overwhelming majority of Guantánamo detainees taken into custody in 2001 and 2002 in Afghanistan and Pakistan were innocent of wrongdoing or bit players with little intelligence value. A substantial number of those prisoners were literally sold to U.S. officials in exchange for bounty payments offered by the U.S. military.
The military and intelligence bureaucracies wanted to create a new and permanent industry and power center for themselves and this is how they did it.
would release dangerous terrorists into U.S. communities?
Hell, the whole damn Bush-Cheney administration is on the loose. They are the only world class terrorists. Is this what we got when Obama pledged alegiance to AIPAC?
Geez, the man is trying to compromise and work something out. He probably knows a hell of a lot more than any of us out there so what's your problem? Right now, the damn Senate voting against funding the closing of GITMO so you can't blame Obama. Obama did the best he could to push for closing GITMO. I doubt Nader or Mckinney would even come close. You can't just rely on the president to be your god or that shit. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Change your members of Congress and pay attention to putting forth better local and state level candidates and then maybe we'll have a better Washington. Right now, this is the best you're going to get and there's nothing you can do but whine at his honest attempts so keep your mouth shut and try electing better senators and house representatives.
The Mayor and the people of Florence Colorado say they have no problem housing all the Gitmo Detainees at their SuperMax.
Plus countries can be bribed to take the innocent detainees.
This is a false distracting controversy as are the photos.
Obama could find the funds he is commander in chief of the military, he could even bomb it ( with Cuba's permission after removing the detainees).
I seriously doubt that Cuba would permit such operations. Too much at stake there. If the first sentence is indeed true, then the mayor had better tell the 90 senators who refused to fund closing GITMO. I might suggest a better location such as California, Texas, and Florida where there are more prisons anyway.
The bombing is facetious, any SuperMax could hold them and the Senators funding is not necessary as Commander in Chief of military O has plenty of power to order military operations.
It is a false conroversy to have people spin their wheels on details instead of opposing the wars and the banker heist and the abandonment of the Constitution.
I agree. Obama is trying to close Gitmo and end the madness in Iraq. If reactionary political forces come in the way of his good intentions, how can he be blamed ?
If Obama had good intentions he would remain neutral at the very least and allow Federal Court cases to reach just conclusions.
INSTEAD Obama is doing EVERYTHING in his power to protect Bush et al and retain the unconstitutional policies.
There's little honesty in Obama and he doesn't intend to close Gitmo, never has, that phony move on the Democrats was orchestrated in order to fool the blind, like you. Now he has the excuse he needed.
Obama has done everything to accommodate the extreme forces on the Right since he took office, his trillion-dollar giveaway to Wall Street, his refusal to investigate torture, his protection of Bush, his caving in to Cheney, his many lies, reversals and back-stabbings, and you have the BALLS to attack Nader and McKinney? The country HAS changed the members of Congress in 2006 and 2008 and only got more garbage and betrayal from Democrats. Apologists and Lesser-Evilists like you are the real problem that this nation faces.
Complain all you want but all this silly purist wishing will get you nowhere. The country has moved rightward for years and you cannot expect an immediate turnaround. Slowing down the direction which Obama is doing is the practical and right thing to do. In time, he'll be able to change directions or maybe not but the next president will. Nader and Mckinney are too liberal, demanding too much, lawbreaking in the case of Mckinney, and controversial in the case of Nader taking money from defense contractors. You'll just have to learn to be patient and give Congress and the White House some more time. They're working out the kinks. Try running a country yourself and see how far your vision really goes.
Nobody is being purist here. Even a lot of us who chose practical thinking over idealism are finding Obama's kowtowing to the Right itself unpractical to begin with. Preach all you want about being practical but kowtowing to the Right is not the way and I for one feel that the president and Congress and robbing me of my faith and patience that I am trying to hold on to.
Sioux Rose
OBUSHA: Well-stated. Had Obama stepped across the proverbial aisle to acommodate the supposed "other team" once or twice, we would make allowances and recognize that a spirit of comraderie MIGHT be useful in getting intelligent legislation through the pipeline. But he has worked with the right wing on nearly EVERY policy, and no one can claim this is merely accidental. Most in power are actors with debts to cover; and indebted to those who paid for the big theatrical event known as the national election, it's become obscenely clear who their decisions serve.
A good president works with all sides which Obama has been doing all along instead of trying to be a bedwetting purist such as yourself. A successful president is pragmatic, compromising, and ready to negotiate before shoving bad legislation down everyone's throats. Since you're always demanding perfection and purity like a braindamaged astro zombie, why not run for president yourself and see how far you go? You know nothing about how legislation works and are so out of touch in your own "spiritual" world. Moderate legislation is coming so shut up and get used to it.
Sioux Rose
There was a time when it was pragmatic to whip the slave out back.
A time it was pragmatic for the Nazi soldier just to go along with the program.
Pragmatism can never be a substitute for ideals, nor an EXCUSE for dismantling the Constitution's laws and the Bill of Right's basic liberties.
You are an automoton or natural authoritarian who cannot see the forest for the trees, and your constant ASSAULTS on my character as someone else pointed out say more about you than me. I am far from out of touch, idiot-boy since for one thing, reading the articles on this site makes me very much IN touch. I am one of the few astrologers that seeks to explain the relationship between modern events and the greater cosmic picture. If you don't like it, fine. YOU SHUT THE F--K up, since YOU offer nothing but apologies as the US slides into hell.
Is part of "moderate legislation" telling your fellow human to shut up and get used to it? You guys always expose yourselves one way or the other.
Getting too angry aren't you? Shut up, have some patience, learn about legislation and compromises, and feel the victory. That'll get rid of your anger.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ......................See, laughing at you already helped to rid myself of that anger...thank you SOOO much, amigo!