No Cow Left Behind

Materialism/Consumerism has succeeded as becoming the reigning king of the modern world. Almost all action that mankind does is measured in some means by this intangible creation. Though mankind claims to be concerned with the well being of other creatures he shares this planet with, this concern falls very, very short of the power material wealth and its measuring ugly-stick has over it.

It is not necessary to destroy or eliminate this material mindset in order for us to become an evolved species. WE MUST BEGIN TO SEE LIFE AS THE ULTIMATE MEASURING STICK UPON WHICH ALL OUR ACTIONS ARE MEASURED. If materialism falls a short second, no matter, life reigns. Life, no matter how small and insignificant has found its place in creation and deserves at least respect. THIS MINDSET WILL NOT BE THE END OF US, THE OTHER EVENTUALLY WILL.

Choose to view the universe as spiritually void, rock hurling, accidental scar on an otherwise empty, black backdrop. Or see it as a spiritual venture through the depths of a divine, wonderful, mysterious, eternal, loving, compassionate process. You do have a choice, he'll grant you that. I can tell you this, the experience of life becomes an amazing, incredibly insane thrill ride, a never-ending story that forever remains wrapped in mystery and passion.

Those of you who see the this journey as unconsious rocks hurling through an unconscious universe are really missing out! And if you claim it to be an intelligent, conscious creation, live the part.

Thank you Truth Fairy for some wonderful posts. Please visit me at www.oneplanetonelife.com and say hi.

Will

Interesting observation by NotSoHotPink about serial killers. I think Jeffrey Dahmer made similar statements about "becoming one with his victims."
By the way, Oldgrowthforest, all four of my dogs have been vegetarian for the last 20 years or so, and the two that have died lived to 15 and 16, a Lab and Doberman.

I am unsure to how I would feel with regards to the treatment of cloned animals; after all they are not even 'real' ones, are they?

What a F*kd up world; still, not long to go now friends...

Kernel, you seem to think that all the vegetarians on this site belong to some sort of vegetarian nazi club whose main goal in life is to make meat-eating itself illegal.

Of course I can't speak for anyone else, but even if I could I wouldn't just snap my fingers and make eating meat against the law. All I'm interested in doing is trying to tell people that meat-eating is better for the planet, for people's health and for the animals humans eat, and let them decide for themselves. However, I would like to make legal changes as to how humanely animals are raised and slaughtered, but that's not the same as making it illegal to eat meat.

Do you really think that discussions like we've been having here will result in meat-eating being made illegal?

Spartacus

That is really an unfair characterization. Actually Kosher standards are much better than most practices. That being said, these practices are abborant, meaning they are an abuse of standards and practices. It is unhealthy to eat anything that has been torchered because there are toxins in the meat. I have seen animals humanely put down and it has no comparison to the best slaughter house.

Steve Mendell should be held accountable for his business practices, not his religion.

http://www.goveg.com/feat/agriprocessors/?c=kosher1222y&OVRAW=Kosher%20m...

spartacus, your blatant bigotry is offensive and hardly what I would expect on a progressive site such as CD. Why don't you keep your offensive and ignorant comments to yourself, or go blog on some neo-Nazi, white power website instead of here.

Is there a way to say thank you to the Human Society members? Because of them we know about this horror that not only can hurt us, but it also shows us the extreme cruelty of the society in where we are living today.
If we continue to eat meat, we are as bad as the workers and owners of that plant, and the worst part is that this is just one of them, they are thousands just like this one all over the world. Please let's try not to eat meat any more, AND PLEASE, PLEASE LETS DO SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SAINT, PERFECT MANAGER, WHO DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING, MR. STEVE MENDELL, GOES INMEDIATELY TO JAIL TOGETHER WITH ALL THE WORKERS OF THIS DISGUSTING PLACE!!!!

NotSoHotPink and voxclamantis, I'm right there with you. Reading cpclt's post, I felt a little sick in my stomach, because all I could think of was ... Hannibal Lechter.

I hope I never love my dogs as much as cpclt loves his animals.

Mad Cow prions do not necessarily develop the disabling disease upon eating the burger....sometimes it takes a long while for it to "eat holes in brain tissue"...so maybe that burger my son ate at school will start to affect him when he's 20 or more....o and yeah, how about all of the products that contain some of those discarded prions....floor wax, shampoo, soaps etc. hummmm? http://www.mad-cow.org/

This isn't an article on one's choice of what to eat...but it does point out that our food supply is not being monitered as well as we thought...and complacency in this case WILL be deadly for masses of homo sapiens....

Hi guys:

My name is Mike and I'm a cannibal. I live on a remote dirt road along the San Pedro River north of Tucson. I get people to come down my driveway with a sign advertising bargain hub caps and eyeglasses. I agree with the posters who feel that meat should be acquired humanely and consumed with a respect for life. I mean, if eating another human being doesn't fill you with a sense of oneness with mankind I don't know what could. I always invite people in for a nice bowl of soup before I harvest them. I dispatch them quickly, and I don't eat the sick ones. I cut and wrap the steaks myself, and write the person's name and social security number on the freezer paper so my family remembers that their lives are sustained by the lives of other families just like ours. Forrest Prince is right about the lobsters by the way. Descartes proved that animals don't have pain per se. I've noticed that even other people don't feel pain as much as I do. Thanks for listening.

Mike

My dogs are indeed beautiful, loving, intelligent, reasoning beings. The difference between them and me is of degree, not kind.

They are also innocent, honest, devoted, empathetic, and fuzzy.

They love meat. They would eat all they could. They like butter, and milk, and cheese, too.

@ cpclt:

"i think that i love my animals so much that i eat them and by eating them, i become them."

That sounds like a serial killer mindset to me.

Kelmer,
Einstein actually became a vegetarian late in his life because his health demanded it. Near the end of his life, had this to say in a letter to a stranger I believe:

"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences his self, his thoughts, and feelings, as something separate from the rest-- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion, to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in it's beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself part of the liberation and foundation for inner security."

--Albert Einstein

Kernel,
The world will never become vegetarian all at once so that scenario of masses of unharvested meat everywhere will not come to pass. And as for the acres of grazing lands... Much of it can be reforested and restored. Permaculture principles could be applied to use some of the land to feed people. That would have to be settled locally and hopefully in a sustainable way. That could provide a lot of work and soak up some carbon in the process.

It has always seemed strange to me that most people could not feel compassion for insects, fish, and other animals because it was so natural as a child to feel sorry for them. This empathy put me at odds with family and friends who insisted that other creatures did not have feelings or that they were not valued equally to us. It was a fight to become a vegetarian and it was a struggle to find acceptable and nutritious food alternatives. These days it is expensive to buy organic vegetarian food to feed my family so I grow a lot of my own.

As an adult I consistently find more reasons not to eat meat, the latest being that it contributes to global warming. There is just way too much information out there even if you took the time to look in to it. I find it fascinating that science keeps "surprising" us by coming out with studies that prove that non-human people are intelligent, feeling, compassionate beings. My dog already told me that.

I am sure once Obama is president, every American will become pacifist vegetarians.

Humans can thrive with lots of different kinds of diets. They have for centuries.

At this point in our history, the question really has to be this: what sort of dietary practices are SUSTAINABLE, given the finitude of resources, the huge population, the environmental costs of raising different kinds of food, and the huge inequalities in the standard of living between people in the industrial north and people elsewhere?

It is certainly possible to raise animals for food humanely and ecologically. But it is not possible to do this cheaply, to feed a world population of the current size, or to do so without imposing a heavy ecological burden on the planet.

While I may not like what Forrest Prince wrote about lobsters, he is correct about our digestive systems. They are equipped with a digestive enzyme that only meat-eaters have. I also agree with Restive: why do we insist upon portraying our points of view as the only moral ones? I have no problems with the Amish eating meat, or native people, and no one could inhabit the climate in which I live without either being a meat-eater or a modern vegetarian with modern refrigeration and food transport. There's a reason far north tribes eat almost exclusively meat, and that naturally vegetarian groups live closer to the tropics, or in them. Vegetarianism in the north is a luxury of modern living, especially for the huge bulk of you who do not raise your own beans and grains and can and dry your own foods.

While it is possible to list many admirable vegetarians, I don't see any on the list who could have done it more or less alone. And making a similar list of accomplished meat-eaters isn't harder because there are fewer; there are undoubtedly far more. It's harder because vegetarianism tends to be something people convert to and identify themselves as, with a name. Meat-eaters do not do this. I'm sure you can google a name with the word vegetarian and find out relatively quickly if that person were one; I doubt that you can find a meat-eater in the same way.

I doubt, by the way, that plants are at all pleased by being eaten. Different researchers have studied them and while their reactions are not like ours, they have them and respond to threats. Denying this seems to be to be like old-fashioned beliefs that animals, especially animals like fish, feel no pain. It's a self-serving belief with no facts backing it up.

We all cause a certain amount of suffering to ourselves, our companions, and our food sources merely by existing here. The total alleviation of suffering may not be the point. The reduction of suffering to the lowest level possible, and the humble knowledge that none of us are innocent, should be our goal. After all, walking across the yard on a summer day, or boiling broccoli, or pulling weeds from the broccoli patch also cause suffering on differing levels. We don't like suffering imposed upon animals with big brown eyes, but that doesn't mean that by avoiding it we are not imposing it on other beings. No one lives on this planet in total innocence. Maybe that's the meaning behind the Garden of Eden story, and the expulsion after the coming of consciousness.

A doctor, herself a vegetarian, studied a large group of people for many years. She found that blood type O, the most common here in the US, seems incompatible with being a vegetarian, and that most who try it end up feeling enervated. I found this to be true in a number of tries at giving up meat.

The RIGHT WING has control of both parties and think of WE THE PEOPLE, the 70% COMMON POPULATION, as COWS. WE THE PEOPLE are allowed the freedom and voting privileges of cows in a farmer's field. It's good to consider the cows, but 1st let's consider the citizens of the nation being led as cows.

cpclt,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insights. Beautifully expressed.

very good posts...thought provoking so here are my provoked thoughts....

vegetarianism is not "the" solution. if you eat eggs or cheese you are ultimately left to confront the cockerels and bulls that are needed to continue having hens and cows. what do you do with them? they can not just hang around indefinately.

so to eliminate animal suffering that leads one to veganism. the jury is still out on if humans need animal fats and proteins to prosper. some say when animals are grass fed it is the best of foods. veganism certainly is not for everyone. and isn't the life of a plant still taking life?

having raised cattle on a small hill farm for the last 25 yrs i am aware of the line between life and death. the cattle and horses and poultry graze on the permanent pastures that most of this land is suited for. the pastures improve as my understanding and management does and this small farm cycle more closely imitates the natural.

i think that i love my animals so much that i eat them and by eating them, i become them. But you see, i don't leave the taking of the animals life to others. i do it with my own hand, and then spend more than a week carefully cutting and wraping the meat, corning and smoking and jerking as much of the animal as possible. the parts that are accepted as human food, i share with my neighbors, trading for their goods or money. They appreciate the quality of the meat and it's health and flavor. The bones and grissle are fed to the cats and dogs who also have a role to play on this diversified farm.

The taking of life is not a pleasure and it never gets easier after all these years, but the taking of a life for ones sustanence allows one to feel totally alive. The web of life is not a construct of the human mind. The living feed on the living, and the dead, to have life themselves.

This is where i agree with the truth faerie in that it is the compassion that we bring to actions that matters most. Compassion is understanding that we are them and they are us. We live, we breath, we eat, we die.

Finally after many years, i know what the saying "how now? brown cow" is all about. thanks for listening

J Conrad is right: Mad cow disease is likely to be present all over the US: we continue to feed animal byproducts to cattle -and probably our pet dogs, cats-.
This is PROVEN to cause madcow disease. The USDA a few years ago threatened to sue a company that wanted to test every cow, so it could export to Japan. Europe after several epidemics has been checking EVERY COW for years.
Read madcow USA and even an article on the subject on Time magazine, a very controversial publication (it was the cover- 2003?).
Thew animals I saw looked like they could have the disease!
I eat organic beef or Bison. Hope that's OK.

Kernel-

"The next thing we need to do is stop fishing as it hurts greatly to have a fishook embedded in your throat, and if you don`t think so, try it. No one should eat any more fish until that cruel practice is stopped."

Fish throats are made to endure swallowing fish with fish barbs jutting out.

I once saw a school of 100, 700 pound Giant Bluefin Tuna school up thousands of 20 pound Bluefish, come up from underneath them, leaping 25 feet into the air, biting and shaking them down there gullet. I have seen schools of thousands of Bluefish attack schools of Pogies/Bunker, take a bite and leave 3/4 of the Bunker floating/dying, and throw up to gorge themselves some more.

Its a nice fantasy to think the Ocean, ponds, lakes and rivers are like a pretty home aquarium where the fishies eat flakes and pellets.

The Ocean is a violent place even without humans. Until we can get fish on a Tofu diet, it will stay that way.

So go pet a lion, or a wolverine, an opposum or a tarrapin already, but watch those fingers. Oops, too late.

DailyKos is better than this? I'm beginning to think anything is better than this.

WTF,

P.S. Don't challenge me to "get back to us" unless you mean it! I take such challenges seriously! :)

WTF,

Actually, I did look at the link. It's a vegetarian website, not exactly an unbiased source.

"Humans are closer to the great apes than chimps, and all the great apes are vegetarian."

Incorrect. Sibley and Ahlquist [1984 and 1987] determined through DNA analysis that humans are, genetically, most closely related to chimpanzees, not the "great apes." Interestingly, prior to this study, chimpanzees were the model "vegetarian ape" espoused by those promoting strict vegetarian/vegan diets. After studies of chimpanzee behavior (primarily by Jane Goodall) revealed predatory and meat-eating behavior in chimps, the "model vegetarian ape" suddenly became the great apes, usually the gorilla. But gorillas are not herbivores. They are folivores, with leaves, fruit, bulbs, bark, nettles and vines as their predominant foods of choice. But they also eat termites, worms, ants, grubs and insect larvae, and are, therefore, not strictly vegetarian.

"Chimps are opportunist meat-eaters, not hunters. Ditto humans. Whatever meat we ate was scavenged."

Incorrect on both counts. According to Stanford [1995], "After more than 30 years of research, however, it is now clear that meat is a natural part of the chimpanzees' diet. Indeed, hunting has been observed at most of the other sites where chimpanzees are studied across central Africa. And, it turns out, a chimpanzee community may eat several hundred kilograms of meat in a single year."

Humans have never been "scavengers," like the vulture. The earliest humans were hunter-gatherers.

I'm not in any way disparaging your choice to eat a strict vegetarian/vegan diet. As I said before, I respect your motives. There are many good reasons to make that choice, not the least of which is withholding support for the kind of cruelty described in Trueman's article. But it simply isn't true that human beings are natural vegetarians, or that our bodies are not designed to consume meat.

Do we consume way too much meat? Absolutely! We would all do well to imitate our ape cousins, and make meat a supplement to our diet instead of a mainstay. It would go a long way toward a healthier population and a healthier planet.

Sibley CG, Ahlquist JE (1984) "The phylogeny of the hominoid primates, as indicated by DNA-DNA hybridization." Journal of Molecular Evolution, vol. 20, pp. 2-15.

Sibley CG, Ahlquist JE (1987) "DNA hybridization evidence of hominoid phylogeny: results from an expanded data set." Journal of Molecular Evolution, vol. 26, pp. 99-121.

Koko's Kids Club (2006) Frequently asked questions. Retrieved February 18, 2008 from: http://www.koko.org/kidsclub/ask/

Stanford, C.B. (1995). Chimpanzee hunting behavior and human evolution. American Scientist Online. Retrieved February 18, 2008 from: http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/24543?full...

Grass fed beef is a disaster when that cow is eating grass on public lands. Cattle grazing on public lands is the number one cause of species endagerment. The grass that cattle eat is grass that should be habitat for wildlife or forage for them, not the private profit driven cattle industry. Just like feedlots and our food supply is un managed, so is grazing on western public lands. If a federal employee tries to crack down on overgrazing and reduce the number of cattle to allow the land and wildlife habitat to recover, he or she is out of a job. About 90% of all public lands in the west are grazed, and from that land we are only getting 2-3% of our beef. Go to www.westernwatersheds.org for more info.

So, vegans, now we are all convinced meat should never be eaten, what is your answer for the use of all of the millions of acres of grass that cattle are now consuming? I cannot see anyone taking care of large numbers of cattle, buffalo, sheep,or hogs without any remuneration for doing it, and if they cannot be used for food, then what can they be used for?

Our economy is teetering on the edge now, and without the production of meat products, which employ millions and add billions to commerce, including use of grains needed , what effect would that have on our country? Without income from the grass prairies their value would plummet along with farmland that would not be needed for grain.

It is one thing to figure out what you want to eat or not eat yourself and all have that right, but it is worse than a waste of time to imagine making huge changes in everyone elses lifestyles because of some personal opinion. They have wild hogs down in the deep south that are ruining the countryside, so that shows what you have when animals are not controlled.

kernel, I think the incident (or two) of stampeding buffalo over a ledge was way, way back in prehistory, as in about 10,000 years ago. There is at least one archeological site that indicates this might have happened. Of course, there is no evidence that lightening didn't stampede the buffalo and the Indians only took advantage of it. There are no historical records, I don't believe, of that being done as a normal course of action since the arrival of non-natives on the continent. Nearly all Indians were very respectful and reverent of the animals, but in a different way. They viewed them as animals, not anywhere near equal to people, but there were strong social taboos against harming them for any reason other than to eat them or use their fur.

There was no catch-and-release mentality in their cultures. If they did not kill an animal to sustain their own lives, and they often really did so very reverently (whatever they may do now), they didn't bother it at all.

As you write: "it is not necessary to let one publicized event make us paranoid and end up doing more harm than good." Neither is it necessary to let one archeological site of an incident over 8-10,000 years old cause us to lose sight of the real reverence the Native Americans had for the land.

Sick enough to join in on this kind of activity? If you aren't vegetarian, I guess you are in.

grumpyoldlady

Clearly, you did not read the link I gave. Humans are closer to the great apes than chimps, and all the great apes are vegetarian. Gorillas have quite sharp canines, considerably moreso than the blunt things we have, so any argument about having canines entails that we eat meat is specious. Even many deer have caninies. Pandas too. Jane Goodall, whose work with chimpanzees represents the longest continuous field study of any living creature in science history, says chimpanzees often go months without eating any meat whatsoever. Indeed, she says, "The total amount of meat consumed by a chimpanzee during a given year will represent only a very small percentage of the overall diet. Chimps are opportunist meat-eaters, not hunters. Ditto humans. Whatever meat we ate was scavenged. Omnivores have minimal side-to-side jaw motion, which is quite well-developed in humans and herbivores. Our stomach acid is weak compared with carni/omnivores. I could go on. Just read the article and get back to us, OK?
Here's another good read: http://www.foodrevolution.org/askjohn/30.htm

oldgrowthforest___"Look how nice the country was when the Indians had it".

Yes it was very peaceful, except you are forgetting how they killed their buffalo. They stampeded entire herds of buffalo over a high cliff and one can imagine the suffering involved when they hit bottom.

There has always been cruelty to both animals and humans and always will be, as for example our compassionate president thinks torture is needed and acceptable and many people now are in confusion about that.

We should continue to attempt to stop all suffering everywhere but it is not necessary to let one publicized event make us paranoid and end up doing more harm than good. Do not lump all people that raise or handle animals together as abusers as it is the few that are the problem, as in most other areas.

> Nikola Tesla. His rival and former boss, Thomas Edison ... invented the electric chair.

Tesla was a brilliant visionary. He hated Jews. Later in life, he arguably went insane, which is also when he became a vegetarian. I don't think going vegetarian made him insane or that only insane people become vegetarians. I just mention it because if you're going to embrace the man as one of your own, you should know what you're embracing.

Thomas Edison was invested in selling DC equipment. Tesla was into AC. Edison used AC for the electric chair to prove that Tesla's AC was inherently more deadly then Edison's DC. I doubt changing Edison's diet to raw food vegan would've changed Edison into a nicer guy.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/cowswithguns

Listen to the music.

http://www.cowswithguns.com/lyrics2/lyrics_for_public/cows_with_guns_lyr...

Cows with Guns by Dana Lyons, copyright 1996

Fat and docile, big and dumb
They look so stupid, they aren't much fun
Cows aren't fun

They eat to grow, grow to die
Die to be et at the hamburger fry
Cows well done

Nobody thunk it, nobody knew
No one imagined the great cow guru
Cows are one

He hid in the forest, read books with great zeal
He loved Che Guevera, a revolutionary veal
Cow Tse Tongue

He spoke about justice, but nobody stirred
He felt like an outcast, alone in the herd
Cow doldrums

He mooed we must fight, escape or we'll die
Cows gathered around, cause the steaks were so high
Bad cow pun

But then he was captured, stuffed into a crate
Loaded onto a truck, where he rode to his fate
Cows are bummed

He was a scrawny calf, who looked rather woozy
No one suspected he was packing an Uzi
Cows with guns

They came with a needle to stick in his thigh
He kicked for the groin, he pissed in their eye
Cow well hung

Knocked over a tractor and ran for the door
Six gallons of gas flowed out on the floor
Run cows run!

He picked up a bullhorn and jumped up on the hay
We are free roving bovines, we run free today

We will fight for bovine freedom
And hold our large heads high
We will run free with the Buffalo, or die
Cows with guns

They crashed the gate in a great stampede
Tipped over a milk truck, torched all the feed
Cows have fun

Sixty police cars were piled in a heap
Covered in cow pies, covered up deep
Much cow dung

Black smoke rising, darkening the day
Twelve burning McDonalds, have it your way

We will fight for bovine freedom
And hold our large heads high
We will run free with the Buffalo, or die
Cows with guns

The President said "enough is enough

These uppity cattle, its time to get tough"
Cow dung flung

The newspapers gloated, folks sighed with relief
Tomorrow at noon, they would all be ground beef
Cows on buns

The cows were surrounded, they waited and prayed
They mooed their last moos,
they chewed their last hay
Cows out gunned

The order was given to turn cows to whoppers
Enforced by the might of ten thousand coppers
But on the horizon surrounding the shoppers

Came the deafening roar of chickens in choppers

We will fight for bovine freedom
And hold our large heads high
We will run free with the Buffalo, or die
Cows with guns

Copyright 1996 Lyons Brothers Music (BMI)
PO Box 2627, Bellingham, WA 98227 USA

All Rights Reserved
www.cowswithguns.com

Saddest part is, even if this worthy effort works, thereby reducing meat eating significantly, it will only be time bought by the financial dominant to build robot attack jets with which to human slaughter.

Vegan agriculture is by far more efficient, capable of supporting 24 billion people with Earths arable land, compared with 1.3 billion people that could be supported eating the standard American diet. Which incidently, the standard American diet, is waxing popularity worldwide, increasing demand for the golden arches.

8 billion arable acres, .3 acres per person vegan diet, 1.2 acres per person required for todays worldwide average diet.

All of which means that by todays agricultural system we have maximized the carrying capacity of the planet. The best solution is a move to the by far more efficient vegan diet. The bulk of the solution chosen by the present powers, evidenced by budgetary appropriation, is mass murder by pinnacle military solutions.

One soon to disappear crummy graphicless article about vegan efficience vs 500 billion dollars per year worth of blasting and melting honed to high efficience murderous weapons, deployed far and wide and so high, out of reach...

Ecoalex,

Kudos to you for your eco-friendly and responsible approach. The demand for your products is testiment to a rising public awareness of the darker side of mass production. The big guys could take a lesson from you!

Forest Prince,

Well, I make no claims on the sentience of lobsters, LOL. Granted, their brain is about the same size as a housefly's, but I don't pull the wings off of houseflies, either!

Here's an excellent webpage with clear instructions on humanely dispatching a lobster:

http://secretlifeoflobsters.com/blog/2005_12_18_archive.asp

Pass the melted buttah!

WTF & Mouse,

Sorry, guys, but Forest Prince is right. You're both comparing the human digestive system to that of carnivores (fangs for tearing flesh; short, fast digestive tract designed to maximize protein extraction). Human beings are not carnivores. Nor are they herbivores (lack fangs of any kind; chew their food into cud; usually have two or more stomachs; very long, slow digestive tracts designed to maximize carbohydrate and plant protein extraction from cellulose-encased plant material).

Human beings are omnivores, like bears, pigs, opossums and chimpanzees, designed to consume both meat and plant material. We do not have fangs, but a more blunted version we call eye teeth. Our digestive tract is moderately long, designed to extract both proteins and carbohydrates. Our mouths are not designed to chew our food into cud in order to break down the indigestible cellulose casing. Our bodies, in fact, cannot extract the majority of the nutrients from raw plant material, and we must steam or blanch our vegetables in order to weaken the cellulose skin in order to get maximum nutritional benefit.

I think Forest Prince was very respectful of your choice to lead a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, as am I. I applaud your motives. But please don't be so quick to dismiss the honest expression of his concern for animals, especially not with misinformation.

We consume the carcasses of creatures of like appetites, passions and organs with our own, and fill the slaughterhouses daily with screams of pain and fear. - Robert Louis Stevenson

Here in Ca, there are mobile killers. They drive to your farm, shoot the animal humanely, they drop with one shot, and are bled out.They are then raised up, skinned, gutted, the head cut off, and then split in half, all in a clean enviornment. No mechanical eviseration, so no coliform contamination. The halves then are hoisted into a stainless box, and taken to a cooler to hang over a week, then the halves are cut up to the order.This is the best way to humanely kill, and dress animals, out in the sunlight, with a clean competent butcher.I sell grass fed angus beef, pork, poultry, all farm dressed.I grow the feed with eco principles. My meat is consciously raised, and humanely cared for.The demand is more than what I can satisfy, even tho processing prices are absurd.People are glad to see how I raise the animals, and know I too consume them.

The media is treating this incident as an aberration. It's not; it's business as usual. That's how McDonald's and Burger King can offer you $1 double cheeseburgers.

Forrest Prince -
I love your name but if you seriously believe you are biologically equipped for eating flesh you should go look at a cat's or dog's teeth and compare them to yours - Yikes! I hope you don't look like that! In addition, meat eating mammals have short digestive tracts about 3-4 times the length of their body to keep the meat from becoming rancid/rotten inside, while vegetarian mammals have digestive tracts more like 12 times their body length - like humans. This is why many human carnivores have distended stomachs. Check out the diet of primates, the animals we humans evolved from: fruit, nuts, roots, and fresh greens with the occasional insect binge. Yum!!

Perhaps the best reason to steer away (pun intended) from a flesh oriented diet is the horrible abuse these animals are subjected to during the entirety of their lives (yes, there are exceptions, I grew up on a family farm with happy animals). The horrendous diets and chemicals they are force-fed while being subjected to cruel and sadistic treatment are not only physically unhealthy but will lead those who eat them to spiritually stagnant and stunted lives. Sure, vegetables are harvested from their nice earthy homes before being eaten, but nobody slaps them around or anything. Up to 15% of US cattle grain feed (cows and other ruminants are supposed to eat grass, not grains) is made from - wait for it - COWS! This cannibalistic practice is what leads to the formation of prions aka Mad Cow Disease.

While compiling the list of super-achieving vegetarians you must include one of the greatest minds of all time: Nikola Tesla. His rival and former boss, Thomas Edison, was a cruel and sadistic man who routinely tortured and killed animals, even in public and on film. Edison also invented the electric chair.

Animals are for petting.

You know, I'm starting to see a parallel between being a vegetarian and voting for, say, a Green Party candidate:

If you don't eat meat yourself, you don't do all that much to prevent global warming or animal suffering, but if you help start a movement to encourage others to do the same, you do.

If you don't vote dem or repub yourself, you don't do all that much to change the voting system in this country, but if you help start a movement to encourage others to do the same, you do.

@Forrest Prince

You must be very odd looking if you have teeth/jaw/digestive system of an omnivore, and I feel sorry for your rare condition. I hope the circus pays you well.

Human physiology is herbivorous, not omnivorous. Please get your facts right. Our teeth/jaw/digestive system are consistent with that of a herbivore. Anything else is meat-eating apologist fantasy. See this link to get the facts:
http://www.goveg.com/naturalhumandiet_physiology.asp

This is social manipulation of course, these bastards do not care about humane treatment of animals or people for that matter. Cloned-genetically modified patented food is all you are going to see in the future, that is if your papers are in order.

I have to admit, the expose by the Humane Society put me over the edge. I haven't had a bite of meat since.

I have always had periods where I was strict vegetarian, and times where I ate meat. I still eat fish. I have caught fish and killed them myself, and I don't have any problem with it. The best tasting thing I've ever had in my life is fresh Copper River red salmon that I caught and cooked myself.

I will continue to eat fish. And, in all truth, I don't have a problem with hunting. Environmentally, it was always a good thing. Look at how nice the country was when the Indians had it. And sometimes I feel that asking people to give up meat to "save the planet" is going to be about as successful as asking people to give up sex. We know how well that has always worked.

But ever since the Humane Society did this film, and one author of an article on this website described scenes from the film as showing cows with rods rammed through their skulls while leaving them alive, to be strung up on hooks, I was done.

ogf

I just don't see why people abuse an upstanding man like Mr. Mendell. They show some phony film of people torturing cows, and now he has to talk to the press. Poor guy, can't we leave him alone to hobnob with the other rich folks in Aspen (or wherever the "in" place is this year; I'm too "out" to know).

Those films are sickening. "no cattle prods on the property" indeed. I hope this company goes bankrupt over this. If the employees I saw are a representative sample, I don't give a damn about their jobs.

HALLMARK WESTLAND MEAT

My regrets to Kerry Trueman and the vegetarians and vegans commenting here, but I'm a meat-eater and have no intention of stopping just because animals have been killed in a very ugly fashion. I was born an omnivore (my teeth and my digestive system back up this claim), I was raised in a meat-eating family, and I like a mixture of meat and vegetables in what I eat. So do many, many of the other omnivore animals that inhabit this planet. I'm human, and so I'm an omnivore, and I can't change that fact. Denying it and covering it up by converting to veganism or vegetarianism just won't work for me. However, if it makes you feel better, more power to you. You have your own conscience to tend to, and that's cool by me. Allow me the same consideration.

That said, I deplore cruelty to animals, and what happened at Westland was not only cruel and ugly, but illegal, and I hope the guilty are prosecuted and held to account. I also realize that feedlots and birdyards and commercial fisheries do great damage to the environment, but even if I lived on a subsistance farm I'd probably still raise chickens at least, and I'd kill them as humanely as I could. But I wouldn't stop eating chicken; it's just not in my nature.

And sorry, but I love lobster and boiling them alive is the best cooking method we know of (I think; I'd be happy to be informed otherwise). I just can't bring myself to believe that a crustacean is a sentient creature on a par with humans, and to project the notion that a lobster is writhing in pain in the same sense that a human being would feel pain by being boiled alive is to indulge in a fantasy.

Part of the problem is that these places hire desperate people. Anyone else would quit or protest these barbaric practices.

"Industrial livestock production relies on the systemic abuse of cows, pigs, chickens, and the workers who process them in order to bring us cheap meat. When did Americans develop such a taste for torture, anyway? I'm tired of having to read and write about this stuff; aren't you sick of eating it?"

I sure am. I guess it's never too late for New Year's resolution. Mine is to begin availing myself of my local farmers and food co-ops for the food I put on my table.

Kudos to the Humane Society for their excellent work.

Greenerthanthou,

"Was that supposed to be sarcasm, Kernel? Because you're damn right I don't eat lobster, precisely because they are boiled alive!"

I feel the same way. I've always loved the taste of lobster, but I can't bear the thought of dropping a living thing into a pot of boiling water. A gruesome and unnecessary practice. Lobsters can be swiftly and humanely killed prior to cooking. For those who still wish to partake, ask the restaurant manager which method is used.

Kerry Trueman states: "At least the animals have got the Humane Society working on their behalf to shame the USDA into action; if only the workers who are getting chewed up and spit out by the factory farms had an equally effective, well-funded watchdog looking out for them."

Such lucky animals. The "workers" are not being led to slaughter are they? The ENTIRE INDUSTRY needs to be shut down. It has been nothing but a horror show since it's inception. And as long as people have not had to witness exctly where the meat they consume comes from, they do not care.
Over time, I have changed my attitudes about consuming meat, and now I'm a vegetarian and better off for it.

Also, I agree with Kelmer's comment.

Light vs. Dark

Will someone please stand up and reveal themselves not as the personification of all that is good or all that is cynical, but as a mix of light and dark, since that is the nature of humanity? We all carry the potential for good and the potential for evil in us, everything else is "I told you so."

Also, I wonder if that is the same Steve Mendall that owns restaurants. Anyway, he is incompetent and should be fired, along with most of the other people responsible for food safety and humane treatment of workers and animals in his care.

I care about humans that work in these slaughter houses. It must drive them insane after awhile. There was a plant here that you could smell for miles around. A new neighbor worked there for many years. He is certifiable and has cancer. There should be worker protections.

@ The Truth Faerie

Please add Wiccan to your list: "Do no harm".

I understand all that you quote, which are all humanist. They, however, do not address the protection of the weak and the innocent. We can continue this off-line, but until I next write to you, I will leave you this quote from Gandhi:

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated ... I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man. - Mohandas Gandhi

This piece sent me to my American Heritage dictionary looking for a definition of compassion and it said....compassion is "a deep feeling of sharing the suffering of another; mercy."
We all consume what has lived. But showing compassion/mercy if one chooses to eat meat, and it is all about choice, is to purchase ethically raised animals/plants and to not support those who do otherwise. That may mean a change in your diet. All great movements start small with an increased awareness that makes change called for, preferable and finally the only option available.

Truth Faerie - In chapter two of The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius it says to suffer the fools as also a manifestation of the Devine.
Samual Colt was of another opinion. Something about Needs Killin.

ecoalex: The USDA choose not to inspect live cattle for mad cow.

It's worse then that - the Federal government refused to let a small meatpacker run mad cow tests so they could sell to Japan. The government decided it would make the major meatpacking plants look bad. Consumer confidence was paramount and the way to achieve it was by refusing to allow anyone from attempting to raise the bar even for a foreign market (which mandated testing).

USDA needs teeth. They should be able to shut plants down. Can't really trust a local health department to shut down the only employer of a town. Course, the USDA would also need the will, which is likely lacking thanks to Bush.

Was that supposed to be sarcasm, Kernel? Because you're damn right I don't eat lobster, precisely because they are boiled alive!

And my basic point is that we can be concerned about animals and people. It's not an either-or principle, except to those who try to minimize concern for animals by pointing to oppressed people.

Sorry. Not falling for your tactic. I care about animals who are pushed along the assembly line so fast that no one cares if they are stunned or killed before the harvest starts. And I care about the human victims of imperialism and globalization.

Ever met a door to door meat salesman? I actually met one out in Washington one time. How weird is that? His slogan was, "Meat: It's in Your Face"

Some congratulations are in order here, in the midst of all the outrage and horror. You and I and our anonymous videographer and the Humane Society have succeeded in bringing the truth about the meat industry to last night's mainstream news in full color in all its stomach wrenching nastiness. Fans of NBC news now know what their children eat and how it is produced, unless of course they were able to look away in time to shut it out. This story hit CD a week ago, and instead of dying inside the circle of a few bleeding hearts in the progressive community it actually hit the fan like a ton of shit, cost the meat industry a ton of money, made the government inspection program look worse than FEMA and created god knows how many new vegetarians. Good going. I am pleased to be in your company.

The next thing we need to do is stop fishing as it hurts greatly to have a fishook embedded in your throat, and if you don`t think so, try it. No one should eat any more fish until that cruel practice is stopped.

Some say cattle are skinned and boiled while still alive, which is untrue unless in a very few cases the animal recovered from being stunned to kill it. However, it is common practice to drop lobsters into boiling water while still alive, so no more lobster for any of us either.

All abuse to animals and humans is certainly to be kept watch on, so we need to remember that there are millions of humans being killed, tortured, starved, in the world with no one doing anything about that.

Some of the problems at packing plants may have developed as a result of Bush and his war using the countries resources and leaving little for regulative agencies. There are many bad things happening in the world and our country, so we need to keeep a little perspective on all of them.

...And if you want your children to stop buying cheap throwaway junk, take them to a landfill, another sobering experience.

And thanks, Truth Faerie, for your calming words. The attitude here on CD get so hopeless and negative sometimes, I have immediately turn to DailyKos for a dose of constructive "positivity".

A good alternate to "righteous anger" is "fierce love". Rather than becoming disabled by hatred for the meatpackers, let's focus on our devotion to the physical health and moral well being of our fellow consumers... it leads to less grumbling and more action.

WTF- I do not subscribe to any organized religion because I believe there is opacity to the rituals and dogma that hides the message. Many of the messages overlap-

Christianity
Luke 6
31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Buddhism
"Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful" - Udanavarga

Judaism
"That which is hateful unto you, do not impose on others."-Talmud, Shabbat 31a

Hinduism
"Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you."- Mahabharata 5:1517

Islam
Sunan
"No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself."

Confucianism
"Do not unto others what you would not have them do unto you."-Analects 15:23

The following is attributed to Jesus in Matthew 5:38-41, Revised Standard Version-

"But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if anyone would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles." (attributed to Jesus in Matthew 5:38-41, Revised Standard Version)

There is a message here that is commonly interpreted as pacifism. That is not what it suggests. The explanation is longer than I should post here. Feel free to contact me via my email if you are interested.

My point is that "Turn the other cheek" is not a "pro-violence stance".

Also, Gandhi was very successful in fighting oppression, "liberation" through violence is not really liberation (its just more of the same) and there are many, many non-violent alternatives that are not at all "indirect".

The Truth Faerie

The_truth_faerie@yahoo.com

Twenty-six years ago I worked as an overnight security guard in a slaughterhouse. As a result of that experience I do not eat meat. There is a smell in a slaughterhouse like no other, and if you have ever smelled it you will not forget it. Even now after all these years, if I sniff an uncooked steak I can still detect that smell, and it disgusts me. If you want your children to avoid eating meat just take them to a slaughterhouse for a visit (that is, if the plant owners will let you in). Better yet, schools should organize field trips to slaughterhouses, so that children can see (and smell) first-hand how it is that we treat those animals, and how meat is processed. If people really knew what went on in there they would not eat that sh*t, period.

Here's a few more: Ghandi, H.G. Wells, Tolstoy, John Lennon, Albert Schweitzer, Bob Dylan, Coretta Scott King, Upton Sinclair (The Jungle), Thoreau, Rousseau, Isaac Newton, Ralph Waldo Emerson and Susan B Anthony.

An article well worth the read if you value your brain:

Could Mad Cow Disease Already be Killing Thousands of Americans Every Year?

by Michael Greger, M.D.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0107-07.htm

" In the United States, an unknown number of animals are infected with Mad Cow disease, causing an unknown number of human deaths from CJD. The U.S. should immediately begin testing all cows destined for human consumption, as is done in Japan, should stop feeding slaughterhouse waste to all farm animals. "

And if you want to fill your mind with information about brain eating prions, there are over 7,600 articles at:

http://www.mad-cow.org/

Bad news is that prions are nearly immortal !

And prevention is the only cure.

Edison was vegetarian? I thought he was filming the electrocution of animals? Shaw, Pythagoros, Shelley, Byron, Spock(both Mr and Dr), Isaac Beshivis Singer, Einstein advocated vegetarianism but I dont think he was. Da Vinci was believed to be vegetarian.

This article is offensive. Humans dont treat non humans better than they treat humans. I dont have much sympathy for slaughterhouse workers anymore than I have sympathy for Nazi camp guards getting hand cramps from pulling gas chamber levers.

Gail Eisnitz in her Slaughterhouse book(1997) talks about workers taking their job frustrations out on their victims by gouging eyes out--a pig slaughterhouse was filmed doing this just a few weeks ago.

When it comes to the meat industry--humans are the victimizer, not the victim. When they face the consequences of their actions it is just blowback. Given the billions of non humans slaughtered every year--its a small bit of justice indeed.

Many of the most creative people who ever lived forego eating animals. Edison, can't think of the others. But it is a noble way of life and I admire those who adhere to it. It is the of the highest form of compassion. I am almost there myself... and the sooner the better!

I suggest people rent the movie "Fast Food Nation" and check out the Special Feature called "The Meatrix." It's informative, entertaining, and persuasive. People who have seen The Matrix will find it especially satirical.

In fact, people probably need to watch this educational cartoon at least once a week. I think we live in a time where common sense is trumped by daily propaganda through advertising. Look at how beef consumption goes down after mad cow outbreaks but over time beef consumption levels come back to where they were prior to the mad cow outbreak.

Allowing ourselves to be lulled back into destructive behaviors is only 1/2 the problem. In today's world "consumers" all need daily reminders of what we SHOULD be doing (walk more, eat organic, read more, watch less TV, spend more time in the real world and less time in the virtual world, get less info from MSM and more from Common Dreams). When we allow ads to convince us to make unhealthy choices like fast food, fast religion, cigarettes, meat, SUV's, coal power plants, war, and Access Hollywood, it shows that our lower impulses can easily be enlisted to steer us (no pun intended) towards physical, spiritual, and societal death.

Truth_faerie wrote: You seem angry. That's understandable but it is a trap.

You are correct. I'm bloody furious.

I have read your posts and they do make sense.

But how do you explain that by adopting a nonviolent approach to animal exploiters in fact is a pro-violence stance that tolerates their blood-spilling without taking adequate measures to stop it?

In a broader context, revolution against oppressive governments means exchanging Gandhi for Machiavelli and switching principled nonviolence with the amoral (not to be confused with immoral) pragmatism that embraces liberation by any means necessary.

Indirect action means that we are the cattle being lead to the slaughterhouse.

"The meat industry in this country is broken from start to finish. We take ruminants and feed them grain their stomachs weren't designed to eat, treating them like garbage disposals for our industrial leftovers; implant steroids so they'll grow faster; feed them antibiotics so they can survive the poor diets and crowded feedlot conditions; then ship them to slaughterhouses where they are killed and processed at speeds that practically beg for bacterial contamination and worker injuries."

The first three words are the key, here: The meat industry. Actually, it's the third word: industry.

Life is easier as a vegetarian. I encourage you all to join me.

Hey, Truth Faerie, I like your post.

The USDA choose not to inspect live cattle for mad cow.There are practically no inspections that fail meat, all is processed. Unless beef is grass fed to slaughter, it is unhealthy to eat. Buy local, buy grass fed, organic if possible.Grass fed beef has omega3 fats, and is healthy to eat, the other meat causes cancer, and other disease if eaten regularly.It's your choice, be informed. There's no trusting the Federal Government in any aspect of it's regulation of industry.State regulation also is suspect.Know where your food comes from, how it is grown.

Why do some announce that we must choose who to care for-humans or animals? This is a false dichotomy, most often used by those who wish to destroy habitat, and use "jobs, jobs, jobs" as the mantra chanted to enable the destruction.

We can, and do, care about the animals and the workers involved in industrial slaughter. It may have been funny when Lucy got a job at the chocolate factory, and couldn't keep up with the pace, but it's outrageous when animals are pushed along the assembly line and skinned and boiled while still alive.

Last week, in Common Dreams, they had an article about this video and the emphasis was on the possible harm to carnivorous Americans from the downed cow consumption, and not to the brutal methods used to get sick cows to move to the assembly line for massacre. I objected then to that emphasis. I object now to the statement that we don't care about the workers.

Except for the sadistic ones, of course. Just like I don't "support the troops" that rape, murder and steal from Iraqi civilians for the sheer psychotic fun of it.

WTF- I am inclined to agree that it is psychosis, collective psychosis.

You seem angry. That's understandable but it is a trap.

"The sight of evil kindles evil in the soul- there is no getting away from this fact…..the wickedness of others becomes our own wickedness because it kindles something evil in our own hearts. Indignation leaps up, angry cries of 'Justice!' pursue the murderer, and they are louder, more impassioned and more charged with hate the more fiercely burns the fire of evil that has been lit in our souls. True, we are innocent, we are the victims, robbed, betrayed, outraged; and yet for all that, or precisely because of it, the flame of evil glowers in our moral indignation."-C. Jung

If we project out our hostility, we participate in a feedback loop. Anger feeds evil and will never defeat it. There is but one force capable of eliminating evil. It is compassion. If you wish to combat evil, this is your only effective "weapon".

It took me 50 years to learn this-

Heat is energy. Cold is not. Cold is simply the relative absence of heat. One cannot manufacture a machine that produces cold. To make something cold, remove the heat.

Light is energy. Darkness is not. Darkness is simply the relative absence of light. One cannot manufacture a machine that produces darkness. To make something dark, remove the light.

Compassion (love) is energy. Evil is not. Evil is the relative absence of compassion. To make something evil, remove compassion.

The degree to which one lacks compassion is the degree to which one serves evil. This is true regardless of religious beliefs, political alignment or anything else.

Imagine yourself in a giant auditorium with all of the lights turned off. Total darkness. In your hand is a flashlight. A flick of the thumb sends a beam through the darkness. While the flashlights beam is not infinitely powerful, all of the darkness in the universe, if you could bring it into the auditorium, would have no effect on it whatsoever. There is no battle between darkness and light. Darkness is powerless. The battle takes place in the thumb.

The battle is between that which is separate from all else (ego) and that which is connected to all else (spirit).

Also from C.Jung-"...modern man is forced to recognize that he is politically and morally just like everyone else. Whereas I formally believed it to be my bounden duty to call other persons to order, I now admit that I need calling to order myself."

Truth Faerie
The_truth_faerie@yahoo.com