NBC Battles To Keep Kucinich Out of Las Vegas Debate
Some principles are worth fighting for: like the cherished right of television networks to decide who is and who is not a legitimate candidate for president.
NBC Universal Inc. is a major media conglomerate. And major media conglomerates have traditionally been able to police the parameters of presidential politics. Any affront to this order of affairs is a threat to the ability of corporations to define the American discourse.
That’s what is at stake as NBC fights to limit the amount of information Nevada Democrats have available to them before they caucuses on Saturday to choose delegates to the Democratic National Convention. So the network has announced that its crack legal team will work through the night to overturn a judge’s order that Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich be included in the last pre-caucus debate between the Democratic presidential contenders.
On the day after the New Hampshire primary, when New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson was still in the race, Kucinich, Richardson, New York Senator Hillary Clinton, Illinois Senator Barack Obama and former North Carolina Senator John Edwards were invited to participate in the debate scheduled to be televised on MSNBC from 9 to 11 p.m. Tuesday.
Debate organizers wanted Richardson in the forum and knew that they could not exclude Kucinich, who was running ahead of the New Mexican in several national polls. So they grudgingly contacted the Kucinich campaign, which participated last week in initial planning discussions for the debate.
But when Richardson dropped out of the race on Thursday, the network yanked the invitation to Kucinich, who has stirred up past forums — and distinguished himself from Clinton, Obama and Edwards — by calling for the rapid withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, advocating for the impeachment of members of the Bush administration, and even discussing the damage done to the political process by media monopolies.
The Kucinich campaign sued NBC over the network’s decision to conduct a closed debate. And Senior Clark County District Court Judge Charles Thompson ruled Monday that the congressman must be allowed to participate. Arguing that Nevada voters — and, by extension, the Democratic nominating process in which they are playing a high-profile role — would benefit by hearing from more than just NBC-favored contenders Clinton, Obama and Edwards, Judge Thompson said, “I don’t think that just deciding that just three is good enough for the state of Nevada is a legitimate basis (for dropping Kucinich).”
“Had it been established at the beginning that they’ll only take the top three for the debates, I wouldn’t have any problem enforcing it,” the judge explained to NBC’s lawyers. “I’m somewhat offended that a legitimate candidate was invited to a debate and then uninvited under circumstances that appear to be that they just decided to exclude him.”
How offended? Judge Thompson told the network’s lawyers that any move to exclude Kucinich would lead him to issue an injunction to stop the televised debate.
This threat to its ability to police the discourse was an affront that NBC would not let stand. “We disagree with the judge’s decision and are filing an appeal,” declared Jeremy Gaines, a vice president for MSNBC, who announced that the cable channel’s parent network would demand an immediate hearing before the Nevada Supreme Court.
Kucinich’s lawyers will battle to preserve Judge Thompson’s ruling, and the candidate’s right to a participate in the forum. They have fewer resources, but are possessed of one commodity that the broadcast and cable network seem to lack: an understanding that democracy is best served by free and open debate.
© 2008 The Nation
General Electric, a weapons manufacturer, owns NBC. It is not surprising then that they would exclude the most avidly pro-peace candidate. That’s the word from Arkansas…
Interesting how the one candidate who actually stands for CHANGE is the one candidate corporate Ameri(k)a want silenced. It tells you all you need to know about the other three status quo candidates who will keep their mouths shut while paying lip service to values like democracy, change, equal rights…ad nausea…
ALL the Corporate Media have conspired from the beginning to assassinate anyone outside the Washington Concensus. I’m suprised that they’re even letting Edwards in this debate…he’s making Wall Street a little nervous with all this mumbo jumbo about workers’ rights…too bad for Brian Williams that calling left-wing radicals “commies” has gone out of style. I’m seriously considering cancelling my Dish Television contract…Jackass war-mongering bastards @ NBC, FOX, CBS, ABC…and just about all the rest (except LINK & FTSV) can go straight to the Hell they’re helping create.
Excellent summary by Nichols. This is merely the latest chapter in the ongoing determination by the MSM to erase Kucinich from the scene, much as they did with Nader in 2000 and ‘04. Notice how they didn’t do this with Perot in ‘96, as he was backed up with umpteen millions of his own bucks. If DK was on the corporate gravy train the MSM would bow respectfully and give him a mike at any debate.
But given his message and the fact that it’s damned hard to locate greed, corruption and venality anywhere in his fairly impoverished campaign, the media can snub him from now to doomsday, unable as they are to find any commonality with anything Kucinich represents. NBC is as complicit in Bush’s warmongering as any of the other media kingpins, btw, so they’re only trying to maintain consistency by pulling the plug on anyone with the audacity to stand up and say what we’re doing in Iraq, and elsewhere, are impeachable crimes, or that health care should be universal and single-payer, or anything else DK tries to say. NBC has its reputation to defend!
I just sent NBC an email expressing my disgust, we should all do the same. Bastards…
How dare they?
Finally, I hooked up my television after it sat in the closet for seven years, and the only channel I get is NBC (I have not yet purchased cable). Well, it was a thought but I think I will put the television back in the closet (I know there are other good channels).
Dennis’s fighting for what is “RIGHT” again shows the kind of leader he will make.
Congratulations to the judge who made this determination. Now the NEXT Goliath in front of D.K. is the army of high paid corporate lawyers. Then what will be next? Will the moderator choose not to ask Dennis any questions?
I hope this is getting SOME media coverage.
CD…Thanks for posting this.
Freedom of the press?
In the US if you own the press, you are free to spread military/industrialist propaganda.
If you are the average person, you have the right to be a braindead couch potato slurping down your diet soda while munching cheese flavored nachos and staring at the latest ‘pop tart’ public meltdown, while outside your SUV sports a ’support our troops’ sticker.
If ignorance is bliss, the entire friggin’ country is close to permanent Nirvana.
This incident makes it clear that no major corporate network should hold any Presidential debate. We should have no debates on CNN, NBC, FOX, CBS, MSNBC, or any other privately-owned network.
All debates should be on PBS, C-SPAN, or live on the Internet moderated by contractors retained by the federal government.
It matters not what we see, hear or who we vote for. Can anyone say “Bilderberg”?
Wake up you sleepy heads, wake up! Until everyone understands who rules this world, not country — world and what their agenda is, will you understand what’s about to happen. The US is just a pimple on the ass of world society right now so get over this democracy delusion, fill your house with staples and get ready, we’re about to be subjected to awful things in awful places and there is NO ONE going to come and help us.
Imagine what we could do if we knew how to use democracy. We could end all the wars (armed robberies) that are draining our wealth, and eroding our security. We could take back our airwaves from the shills for power that dominate our collective thoughts. We could end the hideous drug war that sucks billions out of our communities and ruins our justice system, gives us rampant crime and corruption and destroys freedom. We could regulate the destructive practices of business in a way that would benefit all of us and perhaps even save the planet.
Instead we have been mind-manipulated into treating it like a horse race that eliminates any chance of anyone who would represent us from winning, Kucinich being the prime example. If we simply matched our feelings on the issues to the candidate that best represented them, Kucinich would walk away with 87 percent of the vote. Instead he gets the fraction of people who understand democracy.
What an epic tragedy of American failure.
Claudius - We gave our TV away 7 years ago. One year after the birth of our daughter. At 8 years old she has been exposed to TV only minimally, and seen no more than 10 movies. Her favorite rainy day activity is to curl up with a book, she reads veraciously. My partner and I do not miss the tube at all, and will never again subject our home to that slime.
What really pisses me off is not that NBC would do such a thing, but that “we the people” or the government that is suppose to represent us would put private broadcasting companies in a position where the have any say at all about who will or will not be included in a public debate for a public election process. What a friggin’ joke, no wonder we are loosing our freedom and our democracy.
Boycott NBC and Disney and the rest of them. Turn off your TV, hell disconnect the damn thing. What a waste of the public airwaves and time!
I am gross and perverted, I am obsessed and deranged
I have existed for years but very little has changed.
I’m tool of the government and industry too,
for I am destined to rule and regulate you.
I may be vile and pernicious, but you can’t look away.
I make you think I’m delicious, with the stuff that I say.
I’m the best you can get, have you guessed me yet?
I’m the slime oozing out of your TV set!
Frank Zappa
The constant rejection of DK and Ron Paul sets up an interesting opportunity for some network to set up a debate for just the two of them. Maybe Anderson Cooper could moderate. The debate between the two of them would get to the heart of the differences of, and the divergencies of, two completely opposite worldviews who share some of the same goals.
Just like Ralph Nader taking on the road-blocks. So Mr. Nader, where is your support for Dennis? We need as many high profile people as possible to help focus grass-roots support for Dennis and true diversity in our political system. Ralph Nader would help immensely. Dennis is unique in that he decided to remain in the duopoly and still maintain integrity (as a ‘true democrat’). I guess if you’re in the ‘matrix’ you can try to reprogram it from within. Hard to see that occurring in our duopoly, but it may be worth a try to make use of what is left of the Democratic party for the time being. Short of Dennis, we need a real 3rd party that has a balanced progressive platform. At some point the ideal would be that Dennis K. and Ralph Nader team up to really consolidate a 3rd party with a balanced progressive platform. They are the only two I know that might get it rolling. Hard to see the Democratic party really reforming and breaking loose from vested interests.
How dare these hoars of capitalism call it democracy,when they try and silence a free voice of the people.
Perhaps with a high profile fight over this,Kucinuch and his people, can shed some light on what a lie this democracy is.
On a slightly different subject, the only reason I keep Dish is for “Link TV” and “FSTV”..
Just for this I refuse to buy any light bulbs or jet engines from Jeffrey Robert Immelt! I have also UNPLUGED my idiot box.
chunga’s revenge,
Like your daughter, I spend the majority of my time reading. I applaud you for giving away your television and wish more people would do the same. I flinch in horror at how many years of my life I spent watching the nutbox. I think this weekend I will go down to a local charity and give them my television. There is nothing like a hot cup of coffee, sitting in a comfortable chair, and reading a good book!
Please get out of your mind that the US is a democracy.
It never was much of one - even down to the local levels, and any remaining credentials to call itself one were torn up in December, 2000.
When $earching the NBC web$ite, it wa$ very difficult, if not impo$$ible, to contact the admini$tration regarding thi$ cen$or$hip/muzzling i$$ue. Obviou$ly NBC know$ what’$ good for the bottom line and they certainly won’t allow democracy and free $peech to get in their way.
Good Thread.
I tend to judge candidates by whether the MSM acknowledges they exist or not.
Yes I seek out the ones they want us to ignore.
I think Cynthia McKinney will be the most honest about telling us what needs to be done to keep the planet inhabitable.
MSM is relentless; and it’s agenda is to gain your trust in order to convince you, you have no other choices. GIVE UP! NOW!
The media is supposed to serve the public interest by law. This is the battle that needs to be fought, just as important as the presidential race. It’s time for media to bend to the people, rather than media bending the people to its (corporate) will.
At least we still have some good Judges…I hope he cancels the whole show.
claudius,
Your TV, will be obsolete when it comes out of the closet next time. HA!
The waning institution of democracy (little d) does not have a good record when things go to any Supreme Court.
Generally, the global corporatist Empire behind this facade of ‘Vichy American’ faux democracy wins all grudge matches in the ‘Vichy courts’ as duly reported by our ‘Vichy’ media.
I wouldn’t mind jamming NBC’s inbox, you have the best email address? like TW, I am having a hard time finding any link to the administration…tons to their merchandise tho…
This is not about Kucinich. It is about the corporate states ability to define the parameters of discourse in this country. We no longer live in a democracy; something more akin to a Soviet Democratic Republic.
WOuldn’t this be the oppotune time to, as it were, ‘kill the messenger’?
yesterday i both called and emailed nbc. one can only hope that this has any effect. it seems like our only avenue. CALL and ask for the COMMENT LINE. Email: go to NBC.com and get the email address. the media has NO RIGHT to “determine” the agenda of politics and certainly NO RIGHT to decide who is or who is NOT a candidate for office….IF they do, then certainly the US is no democracy by any stretch of the imagination…I think Congress needs to weigh in on this issue also…
S.O.S. Corporate fascism is here !
This is the same media that presents imperial war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan as nation building !
purvis, something more akin to a global corporatist Empire hiding behind the facade of “Vichy America’ —- just like the NAZI EMPIRE was hiding behind the ‘Vichy French’ faux government.
The only difference is that Goebbels and the Nazi Empire never thought to set-up a two-party ‘Vichy’ facade.
You can almost hear from the grave:
“Mein Fuhrer, I have failed you. If we the sophistication of this new 21st century corporatist empire, we could have set up such a perfect disguise, even in the fatherland, that your thousand year Reich would have been a reality.”
I get an NBC out of Minneapolis and the only programs showing are Law & Order and The Biggest Loser:Couples. Neither of these shows sound like a Dem debate, unless they are trying to diss John Edwards and Elizabeth unfairly again.
What I am saying is that I don’t really think I have a choice whether I boycott this or not. Also, I don’t think NBC has a choice other than to let Kucinich participate and I’m going to miss it - unless you can tell me a way around it.
Anyone here know how to use Youtube?
RE: - I’m suprised that they’re even letting Edwards in this debate…he’s making Wall Street a little nervous with all this mumbo jumbo about workers’ rights…too bad for Brian Williams that calling left-wing radicals “commies” has gone out of style.
They basically have to because of his numbers, but, to be sure, they would prefer not to. Ergo, as we all know, the campaign to try to convince everyone that he is basically out of the race.
It is something that calling people “commies” has gone out of style, though. They would still be using it if they thought doing so would create the impact they wanted.
RE: - General Electric, a weapons manufacturer, owns NBC.
Which weapons manufacturers do GE own? How do they compare to Thyssen in strategy?
RE: -
Boy! Remember when broadcast media was a licensed operation given permission and the revokable privilage to make use of the public’s airwaves? Remember when the ethics of journalism (not the commericalism it has become)required no advocacy — but the best efforts at reporting and open coverage of what was happening?
It’s a new day. And news that is produced is designed to shape and sell having no depth — nothing of thinking substance to tell. Just open up wide and swallow what’s shoved down your throats by those who can buy what goes into the “big” broadcast. Never mind how the rigging of the broadcast shapes reality of those who have never had a different diet. If you grow up with “Mc Broadcasts” and that’s all you know — it makes for one, big Happy Meal.
The constant rejection of DK and Ron Paul sets up an interesting opportunity for some network to set up a debate for just the two of them.
Funny thing ALL the other candidates are members of the “Council on Foreign Relations” both Democrat and Republican. Huckabee’s foreign policy advisor is Richard Haass who is the current head of the CFR.
Richard Cheney was a past leader. A YouTube video shows Cheney speaking to the CFR laughing how he did not dare to tell the voters of Wyoming that he was a member of the CFR when he ran for congress.
It’s not media Fascism. Just Fascism.
Remember, the Bush family forture was enlarged by Prescott Bush’s work for Hitler and the IG Farben. For Gods sake, the man was censured by your Congress for trading with the enemy! During WWII! WHILE HE WAS A SITTING ELECTED OFFICIAL!!
Here is a way to take action!
The sponsers are also responsible!!Article by David Bright
http://action.dennis4president.com/blog/view/id_5493/
Call the sponsers and tell them what you think!Listed Here!
http://action.dennis4president.com/blog/view/id_5490/
It’s good to unplug your tv but enlarge your perspective and unplug from the oppressive capitalist economy. It’s a growing trend. You can do it. It all begins with making just one small change such as not buying new things and instead buying only used. Then progressively add another thing to your personal campaign to unplug. Even something as simple as taking better care of your things so they last longer makes a big difference. Ignore new top-down fashions and establish your own personal eclectic fashion of the “used” to make your statement. I love doing this just to hear the economists squeal. lol The bonus is that your weakening the elites and helping to ease global warming. Consumerism is 70% of the economy. You have the power, just do it. Your economic vote may be the only one that you have left. So power up your campaign and no matter where you live if you cup your ears with your hands and face the east you can hear the faint but increasing economic screams of wall street. Once you hear it it’s like a Siren’s song, the more you want to hear it. It’s the fertilizer for further action.
does anybody know exactly on what grounds nbc is appealing? i’d love to get a look at their brief to see what new heights of sophistry are being attempted.
Bit of trivia… Every time you hear the little three note NBC “logo” tune, realize that the notes are GEC (for the original owners of NBC, the “General Electric Corporation.) NBC was sold for a while and GE purchased it back 10-20 years ago.
NBC and GE have a vested interest in keeping Kucinich out of the debate. They have to keep their war and nuclear power machines humming.
Kucinich rhymes with Spinach!
Its too bad.
I suspect he wont be allowed.
http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us/
NBC ABC CBS CNN MSNBC and the rest who try to exclude viable candidates from debates, should be charged with Treason against and Have their licenses suspended.
General Electric which owns NBC is a big weapons manufacturer, and stands to profit from more war, and thus more killing. It doesn’t not look like they seem to want an open and honest forum, People should think twice about purchasing products manufactured by General Electric, a company, who’s family of companies like NBC, stands to profit greatly from this war.
Boycott General Electric, and NBC, if they don’t allow all viable candidates to debate in Las Vegas!
I killed my TV 3 years ago. If everyone did the same the propagators of the fascist propaganda would all go out of business tomorrow.
Judge grants Kucinich entry to NV Democratic presidential debate:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20080114-1918-nv-kucinich-nevada.html
We should demand that the other three candidates QUIT the debate —
These debates are all nonsense anyway —
followed up by computer steals that go back to the introduction of the computers into our elections in the mid-1960’s!!!
Two journalists, Jim & Ken Collier began to investigate computer voting frauds in the late 1960’s/early 1970’s. Their book was suppressed but can still be read at the website below.
See: Votescam, The Stealing of America
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm
Wake up America!!!
It’s a travesty. If the other candidates boycotted it GE would change its tune in a second. But that won’t happen of course. Too easy. Too direct. Too democratic to even be considered.
Chunga’s Revenge, read that article - it seems as if they figure that the appeal can be settled before the debate’s start time but that if they lose the appeal they either have to include Kucinich or cancel the debate. Keep us posted as to how the appeal goes.
Seems that the NBC channel I get doesn’t carry the debate. Promise me that if Kucinich wins the appeal that you will insure that we can see his performance. Will check back here later. Thank you in advance.
RE: Remember, the Bush family forture was enlarged by Prescott Bush’s work for Hitler and the IG Farben.
Actually, the corporate class of Germany supported Hilter because they were afraid of the rise of communism and feared their companies being nationalized. They could care less about Hitler’s policy concerning the Jews, though some of them did make use of the free labour such internment granted them - just like the US and Canada made use of Japanese-Canadian and Japanese-American captive free labour.
Prescott Bush was dinged for his involvement with Thyssen. Thyssen was still around during the Reagan-Papa Bush era.
According to Karlheinz Schreiber, Franz Strauss, then Governor of Bavaria, gave money to Schreiber to travel the world and elect Conservatives. It seems that this money was used to out Joe Clark and replace him with Brian Mulroney - who went on to be Prime Minister and Ronald Reagan’s dear friend.
Karlheinz Schreiber was also charged with promoting the interests of Thyssen in North America.
The Democratic Party is where progressive politics goes to die.
Re: “But when Richardson dropped out of the race on Thursday, the network yanked the invitation to Kucinich…”
Change that to: “But when Kucinich asked for a New Hampshire recount, the network yanked its invitation to him…”
We can’t have our Presidential elections be reflective of the will of the people. We must maintain that they continue to be reflective of the corporate interests of our lucrative war profiteering industry, which includes the military-industrial complex and the newer security-industrial complex.
The good part about this travesty of journalism is that NBC and all the others who have shut Kucinich out are exposing themselves for what they really are—corporations who know very well what they are doing (serving nothing but their own interests). I hope the stink of their rotten fish-heads spreads all over the country so that more and more Americans will tell them to go FUCK themselves WHATEVER they’re selling in the future…
We need to bring back the League of Women Voters for sponsoring debates. I like their objectivity. And we need to ban the biased two-party so called “Commission on Presidential Debates” from controlling these debates in support of the duoply.
And this is a good proposal: a citizen-controlled group:
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/political_reform/citizens_debate_commission_proposal.html
PS—Tim Russert (Mr. Potato Head) and Brian Williams (President of the Sanctimonious Boobs Society) will, so to speak, “moderate” this debate. So even if Kucinich gets in, watch what they ask him: Seen any more UFO’s? Do you wear lifts in your shoes? Is your wife a bitch? Who on this stage is the most “like-able” person for President, excluding yourself? And that’s what Russert (oink) and Williams and ALL THE REST are good for…
If NBC doesn’t like it, it can cancel the debate altogether. Hopefully this type of overt favoritism will lead to changes in media access rule at the FCC and sponsors without political agendas.
NBC’s ratings are the lowest by far of the major networks.
Alhtough I have wanted to watch their show heroes, I have never had the time.
I guess I will partake in the making of real heroes.
Never mind TV
Voting is a fraud! Polls are a fraud! MSM is a fraud!
If it works OK and saves your time you can copy/paste this letter to NBC/MSNBC (the address is letters@msnbc.com ):
Dear NBC and MSNBC:
Your behavior continues to shock me, regarding the legitimate Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich, and whether to “allow” him to participate in political debate—even more so, that you are now “appealing” against the judge’s decision to allow Kucinich’s inclusion. I hope you are prepared to explain exactly why it is SO important to exclude this one person.
I doubt that this shocking display by your networks and carefully-controlled “journalists” will ever be forgotten by U.S. citizens who still care about democracy. Your selfishness is destroying your own credibility.
Sincerely,
Does anybody seriously think that Fred Thompson would be excluded from a Republican debate?
The MSNBC page has a box to submit questions for the debate. Tell them to ask the candidates if they think that the networks should be choosing our candidates for us. We’ve already heard Edwards and Clinton conspiring near an open mike to exclude other candidates, so we know that they won’t be boycotting a Kucinich-less debate.
RE: - If NBC doesn’t like it, it can cancel the debate altogether.
If they lose the appeal and don’t want to include Kucinich, that will be the only option they have left.
RE: - Voting is a fraud!
If we stop voting the Corporate Terrorists win. Why give them the satisfaction.
The right of a free press preceeds the personhood of corporations. As the US constitution states that government’s job includes promoting commerce,
the ability to conduct business is not the same thing as a corporation running roughshod over the free speech rights of real people.
Time to reign them in.
To quote Steve Earle Fuck the FCC!
The right of a free press preceeds the personhood of corporations. As the US constitution states that government’s job includes promoting commerce,
the ability to conduct business is not the same thing as a corporation running roughshod over the free speech rights of real people.
Time to reign them in.
To quote Steve Earle F
Bill, I would rather quote Eric Idle:
So **** you very much the FCC
For proving that free speech just isn’t free
I am just very happy that Democracy is still working here in Las Vegas. Big media has no right to squelch the truth just because it hurts.
jack37,
I had similar questions. How much television time will DK receive? Will the moderator interrupt him, or as you point out, ask silly questions to make him look like a buffoon? There are many tactics the media can use to marginalize a candidate. Either way, I hope they allow DK on the debate and he hits a homerun.
I do wonder how the Nevada Supreme court will rule? I guess we all wonder about it. I don’t have a clue, just a hope that they will rule for Americans, for justice and free speech and fairness, and not for NBC, GE and Fascism.
Oh my God!
Universal owns the tapes of Jim and Jean (that’s me) they inherited it from all the others like Verve Forecast…MGM and other Mob influenced firms that never account except by word of mouth…. and somehow the phrase about “breaking legs” comes to mindl That’s the Folk tradition in America!
Well at least lately I had them cough up our copyrights… The best way to deal with Corporations is to talk reasonable to them because they are all humans like us only the ones who talk with you (if you can get a human) are more fearful of losing their jobs than us under employed who get our revenge by enjoying the struggle.
RE: pleasethink January 15th, 2008 12:02 pm
The media is supposed to serve the public interest by law.
Several years ago (I am not sure exactly when) the law was changed saying that news stations could become for profit instead of nonprofit as they had been for many years. That was when our news stations forgot the meaning of real news and instead decided it means Brittany and all of the others like her. So now it is ratings, ratings, ratings, instead of meaningful information designed to promote an informed public.
Thanks, Jack. Agree with you, John H, and mirf. These posts and a few more were all my quick little scan allowed me touch down on.
Right at this moment it was never more important for Americans to know what candidates stand for. We are at so significant a juncture that the very least the networks could do would be to let all of’em debate each other one on one for an amount of time at least comensurate to the sum total hrs Lincoln and Douglas went at it.
If media are afraid to air Dennis they must believe he could at least get 20% of all votes. As far as I can see they are providing nothing for this 20%…by choice.
We don’t have cable, so we miss out on Oberlin and Stewart. From our vantage point we’ve got NPR, PBS, Air America via an AM station on the skip at night…and that’s it [by some miracle our dial-up can still stream Le Show and PHC]. Oh yeah, a little trickle-back from the Murdoch paper that did the Sibel Edmunds story; thank God for anamolies.
The people in general don’t seem to be too phased when the entertainment writers get enough gumption to strike. Nothing equivalent to Smothers brothers or All in the Family this go round.
So the network has announced that its crack legal team will work through the night to overturn a judge’s order that Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich be included
SOCIAL BOYCOTT CORPORATE LAWYERS
SOCIAL BOYCOTT CORPORATE LAWYERS
SOCIAL BOYCOTT CORPORATE LAWYERS
END CORPORATE PERSONHOOD
END CORPORATE PERSONHOOD
END CORPORATE PERSONHOOD
GO DENNIS KUCINICH
GO DENNIS KUCINICH
GO DENNIS KUCINICH
It seems that the NBC channel I get isn’t showing the debate. If Kucinich is in it, I want to see it.
Please take pity on under privileged Canadians!
Yes, Corporate Personhood should be rescinded. And lets get it out of NAFTA while we are at it.
If Clinton, Obama, and Edwards had any morals, they, too, would demand that Kucinich be added to the debate. As a matter of fact they should refuse to participate without him. But that’s not gonna happen, and we know why.
JetFAn: I would also like to see a debate between DK and Paul. But, I would really like to see a honest-to-goodness debate (does anyone remember the Buckley/Gailbraith debates?) with someone other than a hack network anchor person, someone with more insight and intelligence. Bill Moyers had both on his journal on PBS, but the people who really need to see these candidates won’t be watching PBS. Hopefully, there will be enough press (not the MSM) over this nastiness that it will do them more good than harm. I am sure there are many people out there who have never even heard of these guys until they have been spotlighted by their suppessors.
conscience January 15th, 2008 1:34 pm
We should demand that the other three candidates QUIT the debate —
A good suggestion; however if these candidates are such excellent exemplary Democrats, why do we have to Demond that they not participate? Why don’t all three refuse to participate in such a travesty?
Bushwa Blues.
thanks for the Flash… I think the writers could win their strike if they all said that if they don’t get their just dues soon they will be forced from economic necessity to each write stories and books about their struggle with the Kingpins of Show Biz!….
How long do ya think it would take for the fat ass Illuminati suckers to start to conclude the settlement?
Im’ Taken book folks! minutes ..hours or days… Your Guess….
RE: If Clinton, Obama, and Edwards had any morals, they, too, would demand that Kucinich be added to the debate. As a matter of fact they should refuse to participate without him.
Clinton or Obama refusing to participate, they would add Kucinich. However, if Edwards refused to participate, the debate between Clinton and Obama would go on without him.
I’m with Judge Thompson. The Constitution protects Freedom of the Press in the interests of expanding debate, not limiting it. So what if Kucinic has inserted a bee into the bonnet of previous debates. We don’t deserve the pablum version, stir up the candidates to give us some actual meat. Where’s the beef. Can we organize a boycott of NBC sponsors?
I’m sure I’ll generate a lot of angry responses from the Kucinich acolytes, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with NBC excluding him from the debate in and of itself. However, because NBC invited him and then reneged when Richardson dropped out, I agree with Judge Thompson’s ruling.
Granted, I am biased. I don’t have much respect for Kucinich, no matter how much I may agree with his politics. To begin with, he is hard to take seriously. This is best exemplified by his decision call on his supporters to throw their support to Obama as a “second choice” in Iowa. Beyond the fact that Obama is as much a corporate candidate as Hillary, this act was symbolic of a token candidate. Serious candidates, those that are it the race to win (however unlikely winning may be) and not just to get attention in hopes of “influencing” the process, do not hedge their bets like that.
I know, I know, the Iowa caucus had a 15% threshold, which he was unlikely to ever reach, so he was urging his supporters to maximize their influence when he was eliminated from caucusing. That defense does not impress me. Neither Dodd nor Biden had much greater of a chance at passing the 15% mark yet you didn’t see either one of them telling their supporters to go for someone else as a second choice.
Kucinich doesn’t seem to take himself seriously, so why should I? Why should anyone? This, I think, is the main reason prominent lefties (Nader, Michael Moore and John Nichols himself) have kept him largely at arms length.
Furthermore, I think a stricter standard should be applied to debate admission now that two states have indeed voted. Before Iowa, the sole measure of the public opinion were political polls, which can be biased and flawed no matter how “scientific” they claim to be (witness the New Hampshire polls on Obama). Thus, fairness and democratic principles required including all of the second tier candidates. Let the people see everyone and make up their own minds. Now, however, we have actual votes from two states. Rightly or wrongly, they strongly indicate that three candidates (and only three) have a viable shot at the nomination: Clinton, Obama and Edwards. Kucinich does not and forcing his inclusion is rather superfluous.
For those who argue this is about free speech and “equal time”, I retort that forcing Kucinich’s inclusion detracts from the speech of the three major candidates, and is a distraction for the vast majority of voters who will watch the debates to see one or all of those three but are uninterested in Kucinich, Gravel or any other candidate who may be on the ballot but is not, realistically, going to win the support of even 1% of the viewing audience. Kucinich has his supporters and they are free to caucus passionately for him, but NBC is under no obligation, in and of itself, to waste time providing a forum to a man who has no realistic shot of winning the Democratic nomination.
“In and of itself”, that is. But here, NBC specifically offered Kucinich an invitation, then reneged when Richardson dropped out. Richardson also had no chance at gaining the Democratic nomination but was sufficiently mainstream to be included, thus NBC felt obligated to include Kucinich as well. They clearly regret that decision now, but they made it and should have to abide by it. Therefore, for this reason and this reason only, I support Thompson’s order
Jet Fan What ever are you talking about? It’s the body politic as a whole, not those academically interested in the differences between Paul and Kucinic, which are the issue.
From Conscience” January 15th, 2008 1:34 pm
A good suggestion; however, if these three candidates are such exemplary Democrats, why should we find it necessary to demand that thy not participate? Why don’t all three refuse to participate in such a travesty>
The debate is showing up on MSNBC’s schedule. Maybe they changed it to their cable network and are getting around it that way.
Commentarian: Short of Dennis, we need a real 3rd party that has a balanced progressive platform.
There is widespread agreement that the Green party platform is “it” as far as defining the true better interests of people. So why don’t Americans vote their better interests, such as health in body, mind, society and environment? They’re brainwashed by “elites” via media into choosing other interests such as power, status, luxury and convenience.
MSNBC 9 PM tonight. Looks like they outsmarted the judge?
About a decade ago I quit watching TV except an occasional program on PBS (This Old House, Antiques Road Show, Red Green Show). The rest is commercial-free DVD’s of foreign films, nature documentaries, movie classics, film noir, etc.
The way I see it, the problem isn’t really you, me or NBC. Freedom of the press is a good thing. The problem is freedom to be stupid, naive, gullible — freedom to watch propaganda.
You’d like to think that Clinton, Edwards & Obama would refuse to join the debate unless Kucinich is allowed to participate.
But you know that is not going to happen because they are true politicians who don’t care about anyone, but themselves.
They talk & talk how they will fight for Americans, when the only person that they give a damm about is themselves.
Maybe the best thing to happen is that the debate goes on without Dennis and someone blows up the three bobbleheads!!!!
Then they would have to pay attention to him!!!
I, for one, will never watch NBC again!
Kucinich needs help paying for the recount. It will cost close to $65,000. I just made my donation.
http://www.dennis4president.com/go/homepage-items/help-defend-the-integrity-of-our-voting-system/
Red Flags over New Hampshire
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/71287.html?1200414215
Evidence of fraud?: Paired Precinct Study of 2008 Democratic NH primary
http://electionarchive.org/ucvData/NH/DemPrimary2008-PairedPrecinctStudy.pdf
American democracy put itself behind the eight ball when it allowed a half-dozen companies to own all the TV networks. What can abc, cbs, nbc etc. not report on without putting themselves into a conflict of interest?
Willybill, it will probably stay on NBC’s schedule until it is officially canceled. If there is an appeal, they won’t remove it in between.
BTW - what is the difference between MSNBC and regular NBC stations or are they one in the same?
The Canadian version of the FCC is called the CTRC:
CRTC imposes cross-media ownership restrictions
The CRTC has brought in new regulations to restrict cross-media ownership as a way of ensuring a diversity of editorial voices in the same market.
The broadcast regulator said on Tuesday that, in future, a person or entity will only be permitted to control two types of media outlets in a single market.
In other words, a media group that already owned a local radio station and a local television station would likely have to sell one of those broadcast outlets if it wanted to buy a local newspaper in the same market.
The CRTC also said it would impose limits on the ownership of broadcasting licences so that one party would not control more than 45 per cent of the total television audience share as a result of a merger or acquisition.
It also said it would not approve transactions between cable or satellite delivery providers that that would allow one person to effectively control the delivery of programming in a market.
(cont)
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/01/15/crtc.html
CRTC tightens rules to limit media ownership
While the new limits restrict ownership of the types of media owned, the rules about how many newspapers and radio and TV stations may be owned have not changed.
Companies can own:
* only one TV station per language in a single market;
* two AM and two FM radio stations in the same language in large markets;
* three radio stations, but only two per frequency band, in smaller markets.
A CRTC spokeswoman said there are no restrictions on the number of newspapers a company can own.
The regulator called for public hearings last March amid concerns Canadian broadcasting was becoming too concentrated following several large consolidations.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080115/crtc_ownership_080115/20080115?hub=TopStories
The interesting part to me is that NBC is willing to spend what would be to me a lot of money in legal fees in order to keep Kucinich off the air.
It just points out how much money NBC makes by working to keep control of the government in corporate-bought hands.
“American democracy put itself behind the eight ball when it allowed a half-dozen companies to own all the TV networks. What can abc, cbs, nbc etc. not report on without putting themselves into a conflict of interest?”
The part you have to know about this is that the Clintons were a big part of making this happen. It was the Telecom Act of 1996 that did this. It was pushed hard by the Clinton White House, passed with Democratic votes, and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.
Now Hillary gets some return on that investment as her corporate media allies try to exclude any non-corporate voices from debates that are supposed to be about OUR government and OUR society.
So, not only do the corporate media get to decide what questions to ask and what topics to talk about, but now even who’s allowed on stage to speak.
And the Democratic Party is perfectly happy with this. If the Democratic Party gave a damn about democracy, they would never have turned this over to the corporate media to start with. The Democratic Party could easily have said from the beginning that a certain set of candidates had to be invited to all debates. With the threat that both the party and the other candidates would pull their support and not appear if that wasn’t so.
Instead, we’ve seen Edwards and Hillary colluding over an open mike about excluding the other candidates, and we’ve seen all the ‘major’ candidates be perfectly happy to see our democracy destroyed one more bit if they think it favors their campaigns.
And that’s the core of my problem with the Democrats. They continually deliver the message that winning is everything and the only thing, and that there are no morals and no principle they won’t jettison if they think it might help them win.
They will do anything from having an open and honest debate, however, is it just NBC or is the DNC behind the shenanigans. Granted no one in their right mind would ever vote republican again after the bush controlled government from 2000-2006, however, as an independent I do vote for many third party candidates and enjoy hearing their view points. Since they get no press I like millions have simply turned to the internet and alternative publications. I can tell I’m not the only one on this site how receives their daily news that way. I applaud everyone for taking the time to think, do analysis, and come to their own logical conclusion about, “what to hell is going on in bushes AmeriKa.”
Since the rightwing propagandists that masquerade as the “free press” in this country are the worst joke in the world. Well the second worst joke the first obviously is bush as president. It is amazing that the propagandists have 1000’s of hours of news on television every week nothing about the truth of the war profiteers, embezzling, and murders committed by the bush administration. Why? This is the most corrupt vile cabal disrupting world peace in the history of the world. They commit thousands of felonies everyday and nothing is reported. No I’m mistaken I saw a beautiful open air market in Iraq the other day where people were shopping, kibitzing, and relaxing making us back in the US envious our shopping mall were not as ornate. I guess free press means you are free to hear any type of rightwing spin 24 hours a day.
TimKidd @ 4:02 PM, are you serious? The DNC has the power to certify its candidates, not NBC. It has certified Kucinich and Gravel as well as the favored two and the not-so-favored other one. That should be enough to earn a place on the stage.
And who are you (or NBC) to protect me from being “distracted” from anything or anybody? (Actually, I thought the whole purpose of TV was distraction.)
As far as any network’s obligations to unfettered and unfiltered speech are concerned. I’d say they’re inherent in having been granted a license to broadcast over the public airwaves.
Once again, the media is trying to decide the election by limiting who is allowed to speak at debates. I suspect that too many of the other candidates are threatened by Kucinich’s stands on numerous issues, such as the War in Iraq and health care, to name two examples. Well, I say that PBS ought to sponsor these debates, not the Mainstream Media, whose intention is to decide who gets to speak and who doesn’t. PBS is supposed to be Public Television and answerable to those of us who pledge our dollars to keeping it on the air, not corporate sponsors who pay to run their ads on commercial TV.
I’m glad to hear that Kucinich is going to be allowed to speak after all, but it took filing suit in order to get that done. Good for Dennis that he’s not backing down on this issue!
http://dennis4president.com/
Email them and let them know how you feel.
letters@msnbc.com
Why is Kucinich even a Democrat to begin with? Its not like I see the Democratic party rising to his defense…
I just donated $25 to Kucinich. At least he fights back. Unlike Kerry.
Boycott NBC. They should have their charter revoked for meddleing in the countries important affairs. Even PBS has been compromised, don’t trust without verification. We need someone we actually trust not self serving autocratic networks to hold the debates.
The Democratic Party serves the same masters as the Republicans. Two peas in the same pod. One’s slightly greener than the other.
Kucinich 08! He’ll get my vote next month.
By the way, I was listening to Thom Hartmann’s broadcast this morning and he talk a random straw poll from nationwide listeners for about five minutes or so. Edwards got 40 votes, Kucinich got 18, Obama got 7, Clinton got 5, Paul, Gore, Nader, and the actor, Christopher Walken each got one vote.
This has been the third straw poll I’ve heard on Hartmann’s program, and it’s usually closer with Edwards 1st, Kucinich a close 2nd, Obama a distant 3rd, trailed by Clinton in 4th place.
If you progressives believe in Kucinich, please vote for him in your state’s primaries. BTW,go to
www.globalresearch.ca and read the article by Michael Carmichael about the New Hampshire primary and why Hillary Clinton won.
These news networks will do anything to keep an anti-war candidate from being heard. What are they afraid of? Losing their sponsorships?
This country only knows how to follow the money.
“Kucinich has his supporters and they are free to caucus passionately for him, but NBC is under no obligation, in and of itself, to waste time providing a forum to a man who has no realistic shot of winning the Democratic nomination.” TimKidd 4:02 pm
The American public, through the FCC, grants licenses to private corporations to use public airwaves in the public interest. As sponsors of public debates, private corporations like General Electric have a duty not only to their shareholders, but to the public at large. Which candidates have a shot at winning the Democratic nomination is speculative and not a valid criterion for inclusion. John Q. Public has a right to hear the viewpoints of all candidates listed on the ballot, whether libertarian, socialist, or whatever. Limiting debates to the most corrupt candidates of the conservative and liberal wings of the American Fascist Party obviously perpetuates our present crony capitalist system and prevents any real discussion or possibility of reform.
Yeah, things could be worse. Our debates could be subject to heavy-handed government censorship instead of our present heavy-handed corporate censorship. I feel better already.
Debates are about the introduction, framing and hashing of ideas. Getting endorsed, your name on a ballot, elected, etc. is largely irrelevant to the question of who ought to be allowed into a debate forum. Free flow of ideas here. The majority of Americans want out of Iraq, perhaps a majority also want single-payer at this point.
Kucinich is well within the mainstream of political opinion on several issues.
Does anyone think that NBC’s fighting this with high paid lawyers falls under the category of, “Methinks they protest too much”? If they weren’t so afraid of the Kucinich Progressive platform and message, would they go to these lengths?
Also, do you think this whole to-do will be covered in other media? AND, if “real” people hear about this censorship, will they (1)AWAKEN, (2)think nothing of it and change channels, or (3)blame D.K. for being “pushy”? My fear, given my feelings for a dumbed-down public, is that it will be choices #2 AND #3.
Gawd help us all if D.K. doesn’t pull a true “Seabiscuit” and take this thing.
TimKidd @ 4:02–If you think that the results from a caucus in Iowa and one primary in New Hampshire are a good determinant for who should be in the debates for the other 48 states, perhaps you’d just like to throw away state’s rights across the board because you seem to think that all areas of the country are like-minded. By your criteria, John Kerry never would have gotten into a debate after this point in the 2004 race (okay–maybe that would have been a good thing!).
The point is, the primaries and the debates interspersed between them are the events where we determine who we want to vote for. We don’t decide who can or can’t run based on polls, Media permission or the results from another state.
Speaking of whores and whoremasters, has anyone heard anything about the “Madame” from DC with the black book of names…..some of which might be working on Capitol Hill? I can’t remember her name and haven’t heard anything about this issue for months.
Anyone?????
Dose it appear that no one believes that this corrupt regime has’nt taken completly over our media. Its time to wake up! This bunch of republican criminals has been at work for decades setting this country up for a complete take over. Dont expect the democratic party to bail us out, some of them are part of the criminals. There is a way out though for all of us who call ourselves AMERICANS. More to come……
” Jeremy Gaines, a vice president for MSNBC, who announced that the cable channel’s parent network would demand an immediate hearing before the Nevada Supreme Court.” Jesus Christ!!!! A “network” can demand something? If that’s the case, then a “network” should be able to be murdered in the street too, just like a human being.
if corporations want to be treated like human beings, then let them be raped, beat, tortured, and murdered like everybody else!
I am gross and perverted, I am obsessed and deranged
I have existed for years but very little has changed.
I’m tool of the government and industry too,
for I am destined to rule and regulate you.
I may be vile and pernicious, but you can’t look away.
I make you think I’m delicious, with the stuff that I say.
I’m the best you can get, have you guessed me yet?
I’m the slime oozing out of your TV set!
Frank Zappa
Hey, I quoted this Zappa song for my Philosophy 101 final years ago. I failed. This tells you how out of touch philosophy profs are! Oh well, just cogs in the machine.
As for NBC and the MSM - we can storm Congress and the White House and hang the bastards by the lamp posts, but as long as we leave the media structure as it is we’ll be back to where we are quicker than a 30 second commercial. We need to take back the media, however we have to do it. Insurgents, arise!
NBC makes me sick! But at the same time I can understand that a man who stands against American Imperialism would be excluded from the Imperialist debate by none other than America’s corporate mouth piece. Of course FOX, CBS and ABC are all major propaganda outlets as well.
I phoned NBC, wrote to them and spread the word to hundreds of people at work about the MSM’s attempt to crush any opposing views to their grip on a warped ideology. Any TRUE Democrat would cry ‘foul’ and refuse to participate in a debate that excludes one of only 5 candidates. If none of them do, then this is proof that those candidates represent moneyed interests and NOT the average American.
Thank God for the internet though. Maybe we can put an end to this sham called ‘the Presidential Primaries’ by boycotting the MSM and using the internet to learn and educate fellow Americans.
What’s the big deal? I thought Kucinich
was already represented by Obama.
Didn’t you guys get the memo in Iowa?
Oh, right. Kucinich was just joking!
He was just telling people to vote Obama in Iowa
and not the entire race. Okay. Got it.
Open the debate to Kucinich.
Go, Area 51s!
I don’t know how we will make our grandchildren understand, when they ask why we chose to make our planet into a vicious hellhole when the warning was so clear and the remedy was there for the taking. We’ll have to tell them that the guy doing the warning and offering the alternative was, well, sort of short and funny looking and rhymed with spinach, so of course saving ourselves was out of the question. At least our forlorn 2% (Siouxrose) can say we supported him when everybody else galloped off into madness.
The guide on my cable tv only mentions Hillary, Obama and Edwards on the debate tonite. I guess NBC won. We’ll see what Keith Olbermann says about that just prior to tonite’s debate as his show precedes the debate on the same station.
RE: - The guide on my cable tv only mentions Hillary, Obama and Edwards on the debate tonite. I guess NBC won.
Or haven’t yet lost.
Well, TimKidd, I have to disagree with you that Kucinich isn’t campaigning seriously: he’s as serious as a heart-attack about it.
The thing is, he’s just more serious about exposing the politicians and media conglomerates for what they truly are, than he is about winning a popularity contest (which is what American elections are).
What shows us what NBC is all about more than what just happened? What shows us what the mainstream politicos are all about more than what just happened?
Now we KNOW that the mainstream media’s main goal is to manipulate us. If it wasn’t, they’d put Kucinich in, for the very simple reason that their ratings would go through the roof if they did, but they’re spending lots of money to make sure he stays out.
Now we KNOW that the democrats don’t really care about the democratic process. If they did, Clinton, Obama and Edwards would be up in arms about the shabby way one of their “colleagues” is being treated, but they’re not (Obama’s endorsement by Kucinich, however, may be a bait-and-switch tactic, orchestrated by him and Kucinich, but there’s no way to know for sure).
Sure, Hillary, Edwards and Obama are seriously campaigning to become President, but Kucinich is the only one out there who’s seriously campaigning to tell us the truth.
And if NBC doesn’t put Kucinich in, then I, for one, am never going to watch any show aired by them again. ABC is already off my “watchable” list. And I’m not going to be shy about telling others what I think about either station, either.
Whether Kucinich is campaigning “seriously” or not, he’s got the body politic and the mainstream media so scared that not only do neither want him to get elected, they also don’t even want him to talk. And that simple little fact tells us who we should vote for, if we only had the guts.
TimKidd–Are you aware Kucinich was also excluded from two debates in Iowa, one of which was on PBS? This is the point: by excluding him (and Mike Gravel), they are suppressing his message, which the public has a right to hear. I, for one, have heard quite enough from the “Top Three.” Without Kucinich tonight, this debate will be so predictably infantile and superficial, it is hardly worth watching. Those three aren’t even entertaining.
By the way, people can call 212-664-4444 to express their outrage.
PLEASE stop calling it the “Mainstream Media.” There is nothing mainstream about it, and the term assumes a sort of legitimate presence in the culture.
Here are some other suggestions which are far more accurate:
Establishment Press
Capitalist Press
Corporate Press (although this too is a bit benign as it doesn’t illustrate their deep entrenchment with state policy and their commitment to this economic system, IMO).
What would they do if J.C. applied?
Thank you, Judge Thomson.
-At least one person that is not (completely) corrupt.
Editorial correction– the word should be “speak” not “walk.”
This is why Obama and Hillary are widely recognized and are given so much air time — THEY ARE NOT A THREAT TO THE COMPANIES THAT OWN THE MEDIA!!!! Kucinich, Nader, and even Edwards are threats - threats to their pocket books if either one of them were to be elected. The media giants can accept Hillary and Obama…they’re safe.
I would bombard these networks will CALLS!!! Disgusting, mindless media!
Kucinich says Bush should be impeached and thats why he is being excluded.
Bush and Cheney should be impeached.
But if they were impeached it would drag out all the corruption that has been going on in the US government.
Keith Olbermann just announced that Dennis Kucinich will not be in the debate. The Nevada Supreme Court sided with NBC.
Well, I just heard that a judge in Nevada has up held NBCs plea
to keep DK out of the dabate. The only reason I’m still watching
MSNBC is to find out if Keith Olberman has the balls to stand up
to his bosses. I really doubt it.
Bottom line: Cheney will suspend the Constitution, cancel the election all in the “interest of Natl. Security”
John F. Butterfield,
Thanks for the update. This is sad.
A lot of good thoughts in this thread!!!
Make sure there is no one outside and then throw your television set out of the window!
The above article gives us a glimpse at Democracy American Style.
Our leader always sermonizes other nations about democracy. How about getting a properly working democracy at home first, before lecturing others?
There cannot be a functioning democracy in a country whose media shut out presidential candidates.
Kucinich won’t be elected president, but he surely should be our next Secretary of State.
It’s not just the media, folks.
Anyone with sufficient braincells can go to a coffeeshop, public library, etc. check out Project Vote Smart, opensecrets, etc. and research the candidates s/he wishes to vote for. Look at the money, and prior track records. No reason to flip on the Boob Tube.
We’re dealing with a culture, by and large, which doesn’t give a shit.
hellodarling January 15th, 2008 6:18 pm
” Jeremy Gaines, a vice president for MSNBC, who announced that the cable channel’s parent network would demand an immediate hearing before the Nevada Supreme Court.” Jesus Christ!!!! A “network” can demand something? If that’s the case, then a “network” should be able to be murdered in the street too, just like a human being.
if corporations want to be treated like human beings, then let them be raped, beat, tortured, and murdered like everybody else!
***Well said!
Reno Nevada NBC just announced-Supreme Court says Kucinich is out.
Man I am depressed. Anyone want to move to Cuba?
Watch live: Democratic debate on http://www.MSNBC.com.
Wish you were there, Dennis!
True one can go to a coffeeshop, public library, etc. to find out information about candidates, but what is actually going to motivate that person to get his/her fat a** off the couch to do it? If it is easier sitting in front of the Boob Tube eating chips and cookies, then that is what most people will do.
I wouldn’t throw my TV set out the window unless it would hit that scum bag NBC CEO or the high court scoundrels who made that swine damn decision in the damn head or maybe should be the booty where their brains are.
“… if you can keep it?”
Sorry Ben, but that just didn’t seem to matter much to most after a while. Maybe next time?
What’s up? I’m listening to the debate on the radio and there is no sign of DK. I thought he was allowed in?!?
Jim G (3:59 PM), you meant by FLASH I’m not conveying any big revelation?
If that’s what you mean (don’t take offense if I’m misreading), I can only say MSM disappoints me exceedingly with their “entertainment.” Since I’ve been laid up a week I’ve found one sit com that makes me laugh…2 1/2 Men (which I’m sure cable folk ran into 5 yrs before moi). That makes one and a half total. In general I think our television “entertainment” should make great terrorist muzak-prop, that is if the world turns off at the prospect of being schlocked to death. They’re not gonna write those books, and if they did I’d rather read books by whistleblowers closer to the malfaesance in gov itself. Any corps that would put out that stuff are bound to have few scruples about anythin, I suspect a lot more people realize this than they wanna tell us about. I don’t have cable (regretting only no Oberlin & Stewart), and in my don’t-care mode because of this…I’ll admit I almost forget the strike’ll touch me no doubt vis a vis some very decent movies…that won’t get made. Maybe I’ll call the networks after all.
Anyway, it’s not the illumaniti IMO. It’s something Jacques Ellul called technique…something much harder to track down.
Ironically this ‘Vichy’ court partially justified their decision to exclude Kucinich from democracy “in the public interest”.
Sort of reminds me of the infamous Vietnam War statement. “we had to destroy the village in order to save it.”
Well, this corporatist Empire supreme court of distinctly less than ‘honorable’ judges has only managed to come in second to the US “Vichy’ Supreme Court it killing the village of democracy in order to allow the empire of corporations to prevail against all Americans.
I hope we have all learned something from this little display of the global corporatist Empire behind the facade of ‘Vichy America’.
We need to begin the active revolution against this complete two-party (and MSM) Empire —- and show no quarter.
As Jefferson said, “from time to time the tree of liberty must be nourished by the blood of tyrants” and now is that time.
I just heard the Keith Oberman broke into his news schedule to announce that NBC had won on appeal and that DK would not be in the debate.
This is gross!!!!
I know what I won’t be watching tonight…
I’m watching, I won’t allow the neo-cons to rule me totally. I may be one of the sheep, but even sheep have horns or hard heads and I’m buttin every chance I get. I want to see how John Edwards does, he’s our only hope. All of the many polls show, John Edwards is the only one who can win over all of the Republican candidates. Hillary cannot beat any of them. Oboma can only beat one of the front runners and that is a near tie vote. I am pissed about the judges decision, it isn’t fair, ethical or right.
Maybe it is a good thing that I don’t get MSNBC. Then again, Edwards is still in it.
BTW - how does a court case about honouring contracts turn into a decision about corporate personhood?
Boycott NBC
The Corporate Whore Network
General Electric, War profiting Whores! They should both be charged with Treason against all Americans in Time of War.
Revoke NBC/s Broadcast license now!
I’m gonna throw this damn computer out of the window if I keep submitting here before I proof read.
Actually, I should just jump and leave the computer out of it. Hillary is talkng now and her voice hurts my ears.
RE: - I just heard the Keith Oberman broke into his news schedule to announce that NBC had won on appeal and that DK would not be in the debate.
Let them celebrate. The more they do it, the more that people are going to start to wonder why NBC are making such a fuss about winning!
RE: Throwing out computer
Donate it to the school or some organization for low income families before you do that. Kids like computers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNGtJ_0vTgk
Watch the Green Party debate instead of the Democrats.
Like Mik said, boycott GE, and MSNBC, contact Robert Wright, the head of NBC, Jack Welch, the head of GE, let them know of the boycott that is starting. Watch the Today Show and the evening news with Brian Williams, Meet the Press, etc.(only long enough to find out who their sponsors are) and inform them that you will no longer buy their products. Contact your fiends and family, spread the word. Boycott GE and their holdings, then move on to Disney, etc.
This is quite amusing to see a member of the incumbent duopoly receive the kind of treatment that independent and third party candidates always receive. I don’t recall DK ever speaking up about the exclusion of Ralph Nader from the ‘bipartisan debates’ in 2000 or 2004. If Kucinich was serious about change he’d split from the corrupt warmonger party and run for Senate as an independent. But he isn’t. His campaign is all about duping ‘progressives’ into thinking they can get progress or change within the Democrat Party. When has that happened since the New Deal?
Does DK have anything to say about his party’s obstruction of Nader’s 2004 campaign, for which they are being sued? Haven’t heard a peep from the Boy Mayor of Cleveland.
Meanwhile a true insurgent candidacy is emerging as Cynthia McKinney campaigns for the Green Party nomination. As in 2004, DK will put aside his peace rhetoric and back his party’s warmaker nominee rather than break with the status quo.
Aren’t Common Dreams readers already boycotting GE?!?!?
Edwards ahead by a length …
Funny. The only noncorporate funded, anti-deathpenalty candidate is missing from the Democrats’(?) debate. Meanwhile the debate we get is slightly less instructive than a World Wrestling Federation show.
Regarding the exclusion of Dennis Kucinich, and the ‘deal’ to sell out democracy (small d), I found this in a Wall Street Journal (news side) report:
“Mr. McGaha told the judge on Monday that MSNBC and a Democratic party liaison at first invited Mr. Kucinich and then dropped him from the debate.”
So, so, this smells like a “Democratic party liaison” was intimately involved in making this dirty deal to kill democracy.
Wonder who it was?
Whoever it was has just tied Judas Iscariot in the reality show, “Sell out of the century”.
I’ve not watched a single debate this cycle, and don’t plan on it. Looking at voting records and money trails is sufficient for me. Debates are fluff, as Kucinich’s exclusion demonstrates.
Gives the candidates a chance to manuever around in MSM corporate-framed issues space, sport a good haircut and expensive suit.
Paul Bramscher,
And you haven’t missed a thing, Paul. They are not debates but timed sound bites.
Like the others on CD, I am upset but not surprised Kucinich was excluded tonight.
I got to get away from this computer and finish reading the book I told you about last week.
Edwards extends his lead, the finish in sight …
Dennis Kucinich ran on stage at the last minute and stole the debate.
Just kidding.
smcoger January 15th, 2008 10:38 am
“General Electric, a weapons manufacturer, owns NBC.”
Thanks, I forgot. That expains it.
They just smashed you under their thumb tonight. Now their wiping you off the table. Congratulations all around in their camp. Now, any dem elected will be owned by them. Change starts with you. Stop consuming now.
What if DK ran as an Independent?
Someday they won’t let you, now you must agree
The times they are a-telling, and the changing isn’t free
You’ve read it in the tea leaves, the tracks are on TV
Beware the savage jaw
Of 1984!
David Bowie
Dennis Kucinich should join the Green Party.
Yeah Vaudree, I see that you do like computers.
If Kucinich ran as an independant, Hillary would win the primary. Over ten good polls show that Hillary, Obama, or Kucinich, will NOT beat a Republican. The only one who beats all of the Republican candidates in the general is John Edwards. The polls were pretty accurate in Iowa and in Michigan they were right on. Thankfully the crooked Bible thumper, lost big time tonight in Michigan.
Obtuse S|ot machine Vegas Judge had the unmitigated ga|| to say NBC/MSNBC/MS/GE were having their FIRST vio|ated!!! Their FIRST!!!!
I am Hating, so what say, Bi|| Gates next???? Mr. Phi|anthropist, assuage his gui|t, F@@KER!
Nevada Dem Party www.NVdems.com
100 B|ack Men of America www.100b|ackmen.org (my e||e is broken any |ink with it wi|| not work, sorry)
African American Dem I_eadership Counci| www.d|c.org
US Hispanic Chamber of Commerce www.ushcc.com
IMPACTO|_ (of the |as Vegas Chamber of Commerce) it wi|| not work (e||e)
Co||ege of Southern Nevada www.csn.edu
For everyone that says this one or that one is the on|y one that wi|| win due to such and such, come November go to the store and buy a #2 penci| and friggin’ write it in. If a|| of the doomsday crew wou|d do it Kucinich wou|d win, no bout adoubt it, I mean no doubt about it…..
diebold in 08
times for the masses to revolt
turn off your car
ride your bike….
If Dennis Kucinich is not in with a chance, then WHY would they bother to exclude him?
I would like to congratulate and thank NBC for making such embarrassing noise over excluding Dennis Kucinich from the Nevada debates this evening.
Now who is humiliated?
Not only has NBC soiled its own pants in public (isn’t it funny!), they have inadvertently elevated Kucinich to a level where perhaps Dennis will now be heard.
What happened to Dennis in Nevada may turn out to be a very good thing for him, and for us all…
Keep fighting Dennis!
Doesn’t matter, Diebold will deliver the pre determined president in 08.
Why don’t we just vote for the guy in protest. The Dems are going to win the White House whoever runs so why not just throw every vote to Kucinich in the primaries to let the other three know we’re fed up and not going to take it anymore!! And, by the way, why didn’t the others stick up for him?
If GE does not allow Kucinich to debate with the others than this means that GE and other major stockholders of MSNBC like Microsoft should not have our support. We should boycott their products in protest, they have no right to