Mukasey’s Black Magic on Torture
Anyone with a conscience has an opinion on waterboarding; the would-be attorney general should come clean on his.
Maybe it was in honor of the Halloween season.
The Bush administration’s Justice Department has been a horror show for years now, complete with gruesome exhibits like the infamous 2002 “torture memo.” And in his recent Senate confirmation hearings, the attorney general nominee, Michael Mukasey, seemed determined to honor the department’s most ghoulish traditions.
Asked if he thinks “water-boarding” constitutes torture, Mukasey refused to say one way or the other, instead offering up such weird incantations as “if water-boarding is torture, torture is not constitutional.” If you dabble in black magic, that statement probably makes sense — but otherwise, it’s so much malignant hocus-pocus.
Mukasey can’t decide if nearly drowning someone in order to extract information is torture? Life (and law) is full of hard questions, but this is one of the easy ones. Water-boarding is one of the oldest and most classic forms of torture. The Spanish Inquisition used it. Pol Pot’s genocidal Khmer Rouge used it. During World War II, Japanese soldiers used water-boarding against civilian detainees and U.S. military POWs — and were later prosecuted for this by U.S. military tribunals. Until George W. Bush and Dick Cheney took office, the U.S. government and U.S. courts consistently took the position — along with the rest of the civilized world — that water-boarding was torture.
On Tuesday, Mukasey “clarified” his views in a letter that still offers no opinion on whether water-boarding (or any other interrogation technique) might or might not constitute torture. According to Mukasey, water-boarding is “repugnant,” but he can’t say whether it’s illegal because, among other things, it would depend on the circumstances, he’s not sure if the CIA actually uses it, and he wouldn’t want any CIA interrogators who might have used it to think they could be in legal trouble.
This is garbage.
I know it’s Halloween week, but Mukasey’s not auditioning for a job as a spook. Mukasey wants to be the chief law enforcement officer of the United States — the man charged with issuing authoritative executive branch interpretations of the law, with advising the president on what legislation to seek from Congress if he thinks the laws need to be changed and, ultimately, with deciding when to prosecute officials who have broken the law. And if that’s the job he wants, he needs to show the Senate that he has the wit and the will to do it.
If Mukasey thinks that water-boarding is not just repugnant but constitutes torture or cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment under current law, he should just say so. If CIA interrogators currently use water-boarding, they’ll now be on notice that the likely incoming attorney general considers it illegal. But should they fear prosecution for any past use of water-boarding? No — prior Justice Department memos that gave the green light to the practice would effectively immunize interrogators who relied on them in good faith.
What if Mukasey personally thinks water-boarding is abhorrent and should be prohibited, but thinks it’s not clearly illegal under current law? Reading between the lines of various government memorandums, the administration’s legal defense of water-boarding (and similar techniques) appears to rest on the argument that interrogation practices are unlawful only if they “shock the conscience,” and this is a highly subjective standard. (If you don’t have much of a conscience, you’re unlikely to find water-boarding shocking.)
That argument rests on a dubious interpretation of Supreme Court precedent. But perhaps Mukasey thinks it’s strong enough to prevent him from saying categorically that water-boarding is currently illegal in all circumstances.
Fine — then he should explain this, and assure the Senate that he will personally urge the president to seek legislation to close any loopholes that permit water-boarding and similar practices.
The Justice Department will inevitably be something of a haunted house for years to come, in need of exorcism to get rid of the ghosts of torture-enablers past. In his distinguished career as a judge, Mukasey has often shown enough independence and thoughtfulness to earn him praise even from many Democratic critics of the Bush administration. If he can unambiguously repudiate water-boarding and similar interrogation tactics, the Senate should confirm him as attorney general.
Of course, maybe Mukasey doesn’t want to say that water-boarding is torture because, deep down, he considers it an appropriate interrogation tactic. But if that’s what’s really going on here, Mukasey should take off his nice-guy mask and let everyone see the true face underneath. He should tell the Senate, loud and clear, that he thinks the U.S. should abandon its most basic values and insist on the right to torture prisoners.
And the Senate, if it has any sense of integrity at all, should refuse to confirm him as attorney general. Around the world, there are dozens of abusive regimes that would probably be delighted to have a torture proponent as their top law enforcement official.
Let’s not join their ranks.
– rbrooks@latimescolumnists.com
Copyright 2007 Los Angeles Times
Atrocities don’t shame the victim; they shame the perpetrator.
Hitler used atrocities against the Jewish people to shame the German population, military, police and citizens, into submission; they submitted to his will out of shame.
Torture is an atrocity.
Acting like torture is okay is an atrocity.
Looking the other way when people are being tortured is an atrocity.
Going along with your leaders when they go along with torture is an atrocity.
Putting people in power who aren’t sure how they feel about torture is an atrocity.
Putting people in power so they can decide later how they feel about torture is an atrocity.
Torture is illegal under the Constitution of the United States and under International Law.
I whole-heartedly agree with dreamertoo…
There was never any doubt in my mind that torture and failure to abide by the Geneva Conventions would eventually be exposed under the Bush crime family. The very way they addressed the issue of the Geneva Conventions exposed their intentions.
From the very start, everyone in the Bush Choir was saying that the “detainees” didn’t qualify for the protections of the Geneva Conventions, yet under our own military law ANYONE being held qualifies for the same protections… all military officers are heavily drilled in that law.
Army Regulation 190–8, otherwise known as “Joint Forces Regulation for the Treatment of Enemy Prisoners of War, Retained Personnel, Civilian Internees and Other Detainees”. (Find the complete 86-page document)-
http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r190%5F8.pdf
This document is an official Department of Defense regulatory guideline, which has the force of law in all services of the U.S. Military. It is also based on the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, (commonly known as the GPW), which, because the U.S. Congress ratified it, has the force of law.
This makes the breaking of these regulations by a civilian or military employee of the Department of Defense equally unlawful.
This law makes the people at THE TOP of the chain of command responsible, not the lowly prison guards that have been used as scapegoats.
I think it is time that Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez and the entire lot be sent to the Hague for a war crimes trial.
I think he would have a much clearer opinion of waterboarding if he underwent the procedure.
Minimally he should be forced to see “RENDITION” with its graphic waterboarding scene included as TORTURE.
When I saw this movie, I looked around during the scene and watched at least a few persons turn away and/or cover their eyes.
Mukasey is showing a lack of humanity when he refuses to condemn this as torture, picking legalistic, fascist terms to determine legality.
Mukasey’s remark reminds me of the guarded responses from Alito and Roberts. The top cop nominee for the nation gets to slide on the torture question?
It would be funny, if it weren’t so sick.
When the US trained service members to resist torture, it included waterboarding. There was no suggestion, then, that waterboarding was a legitimate technique of interrogation.
Now that the US is practicing waterboarding, of course, the definition of “legitimate” has changed.
Mukasey can’t claim, as could a judicial nominee, that he’s precluded from giving an opinion on a subject which might well come before him. He’s not nominated to be a judge, he’s nominated to be a cop, and a prosecutor, and a key legal protector of the Constitution.
If he thinks waterboarding isn’t torture, he’s the wrong person for the job. If he can’t figure out whether waterboarding is torture, he’s not qualified for the job.
EZEFLYER: I was JUST about to say the exact same thing! lol
Mukasey is a good German. He is, knowingly or not, trying his best to enable Bush to continue destroying America.
Hoa binh
I wonder if Michael Mukasey dressed as Albert Speer for Halloween?
I dont want to imagine mossad extra black belt ready to kill ‘personel’ crossing the borders into iraq emboldended with licenses to torture + rape to death just civilians + children.
I can hear the screams. can’t you?
Mukasey is a typical Republican appointee. And in Republican administrations, if you don’t confirm one, another similar one follows. As of now America has about 12 months to decide whether it is tired yet of an endless stream of Republican appointees.
Mukasey will probably be appointed anyway.
Bohica.
If he is confirmed, let’s ‘waterboard ‘ the Senate for fun and frolic and see how they enjoy this ‘diversion’. After all, if we allow it, it can’t be torture.
Torture should never be allowed here. Even in the most extreme circumstances.
In a worst case scenario - let’s say for instance that somebody rigged the US election, siezed control of our media, orchestrated a pearl harbor event, terrorized us as a people, wiretapped phones, plunged our country into war and economic despair, and threw our citizens in secret prisons where they were tortured. If somehow that ever happened here, and that person was arrested, tried, and found guilty, torturing that person is still wrong. No person should ever be tortured. It’s our duty as Americans to root out this kind of injustice and put a stop to it.
dreamertoo, that was very well put.
What was especially good about your comment was that there were absolutely no cracks in it.
By now we all dutifully inspect for the cracks we know we will find in any kind of Government statement, be it from Republicans or Democrats. Their language is always couched in subtle conditionals and ambiguities. It is lawyer language, when the lawyer wants to leave doors open a crack for their client, so that he can defend any kind of action that results from it.
dreamertoo, your language was tight and unequivocal. It overstates the case because that is what is needed today to counter the pasty, ineffectual language of corporate public relations men and women who are still commonly referred to in their old capacities as congressmen and senators and executive branch officials.
It’s time to stop the chatter with public relations people. They get paid to sound good without saying anything. We are so surfeited with them that they don’t even sound good any more. Remove their masters from this society.
Dismantle the corporation. We don’t need them or the shiny trinkets they offer us, and we certainly do not need their ghoulish vision of what our society should be. Get rid of them all. Start fresh. Dismantle their legal definition. Their mandate. Sweep them clear of our society.
“And the Senate, if it has any sense of integrity at all, should refuse to confirm him as attorney general.”
That’s a pretty big “if”! The U.S. Congress didn’t achieve a recent and humiliating 15% rating because they’re renowned for having a sense of intergity. In fact, the ones who still do have some integrity can be counted on two hands.
Gail: I didn’t realize counting Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul would require all ten fingers.
Paul from Texas November 1st, 2007 9:53 pm
I hear you Paul…..but I was thinking of others like Marcy Kaptur, Byron Dorgan and a few others whose names slip my mind at this late hour.
In bush’s live speech today re;Mukasey, he said ” He should not have to give a definitive(MOST LIKELY IN BUSHESE)answer regarding whether he considers certain things torture or not. This would make our enemys aware of what and what not we do to extract information.” HUH? Does this mean we DO torture, bush, or we do not?
Here’s a simple line of questioning that a brave and patriotic senator could address to Mukasey: “Mr. Mukasey, will you now categorically say that under no circumstances would it be legal to waterboard a member of the US armed forces - yes or no? If your answer is no, please explain under what circumstances you think it might be legal to waterboard a member of the US armed forces.”
Mark Marshall
Toronto
God, on and on about this Republican vs. Democrat propaganda from DD.
The Dems have demonstrated that they are NOT an alternative to Republicans. People refer to the ‘left’ or ‘liberal’ leanings of dems. Give me a break. Anywhere else, what constitutes the ‘left’ in the USA would be still considered far to the right. The people on the ‘left’ in countries with multiple political voices would be considered ‘far left wackos’ or ‘extremely radical’ in American political discourse. The Dems and the Repubs are BOTH far right and the Dems do not offer any substantial alternative. They have already proven it.
If any of you want a real clear and powerful example of how ridiculously ‘cowed’ Americans have most all become, watch the British television series SHAMELESS. Then imagine such a show airing on primetime telly in the U.S.
. please delete sorry.
No candidate will make it past Bush if Bush thinks the candidate will declare that waterboarding is torture. No candidate should make it past Congress if the candidate can’t figure out waterboarding is torture. So what we end up with is an acting AG not confirmed by Congress for the rest of Bush’s term. That or Mukasey.
There aren’t any good choices. No AG is going to stop Bush - AG serves at pleasure of the President. It will be up to the next administration to ignore Bush’s crimes, perhaps even pardon him. Prosecution isn’t gonna happen. Partisan warfare would freeze the Federal government.
Pretty amazing to imagine President Hillary Clinton pardoning Bush for ordering waterboarding, isn’t it?
Follow-up to my previous posting (11:31 pm): if Mukasey wants the job, then he will have no choice but to answer in the affirmative: that is, he will say unequivocally and categorically that under no circumstances would it be legal to waterboard a member of the US armed forces. A very fruitful discussion could then follow, in which he would be asked to explain why, if he is so categorical about US personnel, he did not say with equal certainty that it would be illegal to waterboard a person who is NOT a member of the US armed forces.
And another thing: about Mukasey’s statement that “if water-boarding is torture, torture is not constitutional.” That statement alone should be enough to disqualify him. According to that logic, if water-boarding is NOT torture, then torture IS constitutional.
Mark Marshall
Toronto
it always pays to take the high road. a firm no on torture, will raise america’s stature. at this time, that is most imperative.
There are circumstances where it’s possible to waterboard US military. It’s possible for a member of the US military to be a terrorist. Remember Timothy McVeigh? Mukasey could shove the ticking time bomb scenerio in the faces of those giving him a hard time. The best defense is a good offense.
Without knowing the acting AG, it’s safe to assume it’s a person who thrived under Gonzales. That pretty much tells you what their position is on torture. Mukasey is Congress’s only chance to get someone who might disagree.
The best Congress can probably do is make the empty threat that if he allows torture to continue then he may be sent to Hague. Mukasey should be worried about his own neck, not just Bush’s or the feelings of CIA agents.
To ukanny, (6:08 pm)
All right, then maybe the question should be: “Will you now state that under absolutely no circumstances would it be legal for any member of the US armed forces, who has been captured by insurgents or al-Qaeda or Taliban forces in Afghanistan or Iraq, to be waterboarded by his or her captors - yes or no? Explain your answer.”
How could he slip out of that one?
Mark Marshall
Toronto
Mukasey is, like Alberto Gonzales, a slavering lapdog willing to betray any principle and persecute any opponent in pursuit of power. The senators who confirm him are betraying long established, internationally recognized legal principles by turning over our Department of (?In)Justice to such a moral derilect.