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Guess Who Else Likes to Attack The Honor and Integrity of War Generals

by Glenn Greenwald

As we learned from both our Senate and House last week, in the United States we must never “attack the honor and integrity . . . of members of the United States Armed Forces.” All good patriots from both parties agree on this.

That is why I was so shocked and outraged — and more than a little upset — when I went to FoxNews.com this morning and saw this:

I naturally assumed that the “disgraceful military leaders” attacked by the Fox headline must be those of another country, not those of the United States leading our Nation, putting themselves in harm’s way, during a Time of War. Yet when I clicked on the item, this is the anti-military filth that I found:

And the text of the article — by Fox News Contributor and frequent O’Reilly guest David Hunt — is even more Despicable, as it repeatedly attacks the honor and integrity of members of the United States Armed Forces in one smearing paragraph after the next, beginning with this first sentence:

Our generals are betraying our soldiers . . . again.

To accuse a general of “betrayal” is, in military parlance, the equivalent of accusing him of treason to his country. Yet that is what this Fox News article does in the very first paragraph with regard to many of our brave Generals risking their lives for our country in a Time of War — and it not only accuses Our Military Commanders of “betrayal,” but betrayal of their own troops. It continues in this same Despicable vein:

Our generals in both the Army and Marine Corps have cared more about their precious careers and reputations than their soldiers and Marines under them. The Marines have actually prosecuted a Marine for shooting a terrorist too many times . . . . In Iraq, the story is the same. The Army rediscovered a trick we used in ‘Nam’ called “baiting,” where you leave ammunition and pieces of explosive devices out and shoot whoever takes them. We used to leave exploding ammo to put in your AK — when you try to fire it, the gun blows up. It worked then and it works now . . . but guess what the Army is now putting on trial: Ranger Snipers for doing their jobs. The rules of engagement were once again being followed and once again our generals put their careers over their men’s lives. The chilling effect that these actions have over our soldiers is dramatic; this distrust weakens the very foundations of our military. It causes soldiers to second-guess themselves and their chain of command. We cannot fight like this and hope to win.

We should be putting these generals on trial, first for going along with Rummy and just as important for not trusting their soldiers. . . .

These poor excuse for officers do not deserve the soldiers they dare claim they lead.

So to recap the Hunt/Fox argument: our Generals and other military commanders currently leading our Nation at War are “betraying our troops.” They put their own selfish desire to advance their reputations and careers ahead of the welfare and lives of the soldiers they lead. The corruption and betrayal of these brave American Generals are preventing us from winning. These “poor excuses for officers” should be put on trial. I don’t recall seeing as vicious and personal an attack on the honor and integrity of the members of the United States Armed Forces — perhaps ever, but certainly during a time when America is at War. As the great American patriot and defender of military honor Senator Mitch McConnell said when urging his colleagues to condemn the attacks on the honor and integrity of the Supreme General, David Petraeus:

It’s been more than a week since the Junior Senator from Texas offered an amendment condemning an ad by MoveOn.Org that appeared last Monday in The New York Times. The ad was, by any standard, abhorrent.

It accused a four star general who has the trust and respect of 160,000 men and women in Iraq of betraying that mission and those troops, of lying to them and to us.

Who would have ever expected anybody to go after a general in the field at a time of war, launch a smear campaign against a man we’ve entrusted with our mission in Iraq.

Any group that does this sort of thing ought to be condemned.

What a monumental day for the United States that was, when the U.S Senate set a new standard that “[a]ny group that does this sort of thing ought to be condemned.” This Despicable attack on the honor and integrity of our military commanders by Fox News and former Col. Hunt — like the similar one from Rush Limbaugh, which may be the topic of a critically important Congressional vote on Monday — must not go unanswered by the Congress.

UPDATE: In Comments, several people express the unquestionably valid concern that it is inappropriate, even McCarthy-ite and dangerous, for Congress to start formally condemning private political speech. That is true, and if we had a healthy political system, that would not happen. But, as the MoveOn vote demonstrated, we have the opposite of a healthy political system, and it is thus far preferable — for reasons I set forth here — to ensure that a corrupt standard is applied equally rather than allow it to be applied by one political faction against another. Taking the corrupt political tactics wielded by the war-hungry Right and applying those same tactics to them (rather than ineffectively protesting the unfairness of the tactics) is the only way to ensure they cease.

Glenn Greenwald is a regular columnist for Salon.com

© 2007 Salon.com

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39 Comments so far

  1. parryisle September 29th, 2007 12:26 pm

    Has anyone commented on Colin Powell’s appearance at the U.N. when he held up that nasty vial of anthrax?

  2. conscience September 29th, 2007 12:45 pm

    In a democracy, nothing is held sacred and everything is fit for challenge and quesitoning . . . . including our own government and leadership.

    The military is under civilian control — as it should be — and subject to the same scrutiny as our government.

    The military has been openly challenged from Civil War times to WWII — General MacArthur, Eisenhower, Patton — and no one should suggest that our military is above criticism or questioning!!!

  3. bruce allen September 29th, 2007 12:55 pm

    NO, NO, NO! DON’T TAKE THE BAIT!

    Condemn FOX from every platform in America, but not from the House or Senate Floor! We on the left cannot abandon principle for political expedience. If we do that, we lose all credibility to challenge anyone’s future attacks on free speech. It would be cute and clever to force Republicans to either condemn FOX news or try to explain their own hypocrisy. But they do not care one whit about being called hypocrits. They know their true believers lack either the intellectual sophistiaction to notice, or are too caught up in their own narrow ideology to care. It’s OK to castigate militarty officers for betrayng the troops; its not OK to criticize them for betraying the American people, they think (I know enough of them to know).

    Anyway, the second Democrats introduce, argue for and pass another condemnation of free speech criticizing the military, they will officially be on board with every other condemntation: every protest, every internet post, every conversation.

    IT IS THE ROAD TO OFFICIAL SUPPRESSION OF FREE POLITICAL SPEECH. AND THAT IS THE ROAD TO TYRANNY. FOX HAS LAID THE TRAP BEAUTIFULLY. DON’T TAKE THE BAIT. THE SNIPERS ARE WATCHING.

  4. zoya September 29th, 2007 1:30 pm

    When else are you supposed to be critical of military leaders? In peacetime?

    The “problem” is not Generals — or anyone else in the military hierarchy. The problem is militarism.

    Militarism is obsolete. It became obsolete the moment that bomb exploded over Hiroshima. The moment you create a weapon that can wipe you out along with your enemy, you have rendered militarism obsolete.

    Fox has just as much “right” as moveon.org to criticize the military. We should all be doing it.

  5. RichM September 29th, 2007 1:34 pm

    This article is too clever by half. Greenwald has a point — FOX certainly is exhibiting hypocrisy (so what else is new?) — but if the Democrats actually tried to apply the MoveOn standard to FOX, whose interests would be advanced?

    As Bruce Allen put it above (12:55 pm), ‘NO, NO, NO! DON’T TAKE THE BAIT! … FOX HAS LAID THE TRAP BEAUTIFULLY.’ The overall effect of Congress now wagging its finger at FOX would be a short-term feel-good pseudo-”victory,” at the expense of a much more significant long-term loss. Both parties would go further down the road of attacking free speech, and making it impossible to criticize the military. The population would draw 2 very dangerous conclusions from this: that it’s Congress’s place to come down on any public criticism of the military; & that the military is above criticism. This would be a further step on the path towards a complete shutdown of free political speech.

  6. hubcap_halo September 29th, 2007 1:40 pm

    MOVEON SHOULD RUN AN AD POINTING OUT RUSH’S AND FOX’S SLANDERING OF SOLDIERS AND MILITRARY LEADERS—FULL PAGE AD SHOWING THEIR HYPOCRISY. THAT COULD CIRCULATE IN THE MEDIA AND IT WOULD VALIDATE MOVEON.

    DO IT.

  7. KEM PATRICK September 29th, 2007 1:41 pm

    Say what we may about American generals, they are likely the most educated and informed people in the entire world, on the subjects of geo-politics, world history, miitary tactics, and the customs of the citizens of foreign nations. They also are privey to much of the intelligence concernig foreign nations. In comparrison to elected officials, pentagon employees, presidential appointees, the media and the general public, the generals by and large, are so much more educated and informed there is no comparrison.

    In addition, in spite of what many may think of our military officers, most originated from some of our very best graduating students who were selected for our militay colleges. Some generals do become egotistical prima-donas, who are treated with respect and normally offered the very best in regards to their benefits. It is just rewards given for their efforts and awsome responsibilities. When it comes to any of them who speak out in anger or condemnation of our governments international policies, they should be given all due respect and their words taken most seriously by the press, the public and our intelligent elected officials, and by those who so often display the traits of total ignorance and stupidity on important issues.

  8. annabelle September 29th, 2007 2:07 pm

    Baited??? This entire country was baited into believing WMD. Recruiters are baiting young men and women with promises and money. We are being baited with nuclear holocaust from terrorists. We are baited to believe all Muslims are terrorists. It is as obvious as the old shell game and yet we continue to take the bait at every turn. Congress doesn’t have to be baited. Just throw out a net and they are all clustered together to be swung on board. They have already taken the bait.

  9. ezeflyer September 29th, 2007 2:23 pm

    Charge FOX a fair fee for the use of our public airwaves. Incorporate We the People and we all get material economic, environmental and other dividends from leases like this one.

  10. NorthATheBorder September 29th, 2007 4:04 pm

    Unfortunately, we are stuck with militarism for the time being. We may not agree with militarism, violence and what amounts to colonialism in Iraq but I still think it takes a certain level of courage for generals to criticize the organization that has, for better or worse, been responsible for their livelihoods. Fox once again proves to be pandering to the far right and flaunting their blatant hypocrisy but the answer isn’t to censor them. They’ll just use it to their advantage.

  11. RichM September 29th, 2007 4:21 pm

    KEM PATRICK (1:41 pm) blubbers worshipfully about the military:
    “Say what we may about American generals, they are likely the most educated and informed people in the entire world, on the subjects of geo-politics, world history, miitary tactics, and the customs of the citizens of foreign nations. They also are privey to much of the intelligence concernig foreign nations. In comparrison to elected officials, pentagon employees, presidential appointees, the media and the general public, the generals by and large, are so much more educated and informed there is no comparrison…

    This is utter nonsense — just as inane as it would be to make the same baseless claims about American government leaders. In fact, all generals (American or not) are likely to be authoritarian boot-lickers, ass-kissers, apple-polishers, bigots & ignoramuses. Often liars to boot, as we saw with Gen. Petraeus. Military officers see the world through the lens of militarists & nationalists — two of the main diseases warping American life. American generals in particular are increasingly sounding off on public issues they have no competence to speak on, such as the recent BS spewed by Joint Chiefs chairman Gen Pace about gays; or the loudmouth Gen. Boykin, who declared in 2003 that various world leaders hate the United States “because we are a Christian nation.” Like Boykin, many generals are fundamentalist Christians. Many have involved themselves in partisan politics, abandoning the traditional notion that the military should remain strictly outside the political arena.

    American generals who tell the truth tend to get fired, like Gen Shinseki, or Gen. Taguba, & numerous others. There may still be a few left that have some integrity, but by and large, any that had integrity are gone, because the Bush administration allows only toadies & sycophants to serve.

    As for the assertion that American generals are among the most “educated and informed” in the entire world about the customs of citizens in foreign nations — every day in Iraq demonstrates what brain-dead baloney this is.

  12. bhall September 29th, 2007 4:38 pm

    Kem Patric, I agree the generals are of a much high degree of intelligence than the corrupt neo-con nazi in Washington have. However why would Gen. four star smart man let a dummie like Bushieboy use him? After all history will show if he betrayed us. I think he needs to be questioned by a competent person in congress, if we could find one.

  13. cactuspie September 29th, 2007 4:39 pm

    Condemned by the US Senate? I would wear that as a badge of honor!

  14. montemerrick September 29th, 2007 5:05 pm

    the senate that you all have is irrelevant, as is the house. there is no presidency - that was ripped off and hocked.

    local solutions to local problems and if your so-called represntative wont de-fund the war then you might want to consider de-funding them.

    dont give the feds any more money. they’ll just spend it on crack anyway.

  15. KEM PATRICK September 29th, 2007 5:32 pm

    RICH M. You are entiteled to your opinions, and I do “thank you”, for saying I blubbered. Wish we could come face to face so you could repeat your words in person.

    Evidenlty, you don’t have a clue of the higher schooling General officers attend, including junior rank officers who have gereral leadership apptitudes. I was referng primarily to the type of generals, who display a high degree of intelligence, honesty, sobriety and common sense, which by far most do. The generals are very knowledgable of the customs and history of many foreign countries. General Betrayus has the intellilgence and training, however he has also displayed a lack of character. As his commander stated, ‘He is an ass kissing chicken shit’.

    As for worshiping military officers? You are assumng and you could not be more wrong. I did not write I worshiped American generals, on the contrary, I belileve they are often egotistical SOBs. That does not detract from their intellecft or knowledge. I wrote they by and large are highly trained and are among the most highly knowledgable people in the world, when it comes to the knowledge of foreign affairs, geo-politics and history. The problem is, they don’t have much to say about what occurs in that regard.

    You sound a lot like Henry Kisinger, who stated, “Generals are stupid and the military are pawns, to be used as canon fodder in wars”. That is the problem, people ion governmnet and ones like you, who think the generals are stupid or unworthy of expressing their valued opinions. Therefore, anythng they state would be highly suspect. Is that your opinion? You write as if you know it all, you are soooo smart, it is scary.

  16. KEM PATRICK September 29th, 2007 6:22 pm

  17. iammyself September 29th, 2007 7:20 pm

    “But, as the MoveOn vote demonstrated, we have the opposite of a healthy political system, and it is thus far preferable — for reasons I set forth here — to ensure that a corrupt standard is applied equally rather than allow it to be applied by one political faction against another.”

    Bogus logic, Glenn - sorry.

    The more we lurch into insane times, the more important it is to hew to tried and true words such as: Two wrongs don’t make a right. Congress is not the appropriate avenue for dealing with speech, we are. If we’re half as smart as we think we are, we’ll figure out a way to hang these chickenshit neocons by their own words. Lakoff’s Rockridge Institute is a good start in learning how to counteract the other side’s frames. http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/

  18. frank1569 September 29th, 2007 8:08 pm

    Soldier up, progressives - the easy way to thwart FOXaganda is to not watch it, not visit their website, and, most importantly, not patronize their supporters.

    Targeted boycotts work - just as the UAW. Okay, so they called it a strike, but it’s exactly the same thing. Take away FOX money, FOX either changes or disappears. Do not go see 21st Century FOX movies, and none will be made. Stop buying Advil until they quit FOX, and Wyeth shareholders will demand action.

    What’s more important to you - FOX Sunday NFL, or the future of your country? “The Simpsons” or your child’s future? The Emmy awards or more wars for oil? Because, no matter how much y’all rant and rave, as long as FOX keeps raking in the billions, they could care less. They’re like my old pediatrician who, just before sticking a kid with a needle, would tell the Mom: let him yell.

  19. Gail September 29th, 2007 8:10 pm

    KEM PATRICK September 29th, 2007 5:32 pm

    “I was referng primarily to the type of generals, who display a high degree of intelligence, honesty, sobriety and common sense, which by far most do. The generals are very knowledgable of the customs and history of many foreign countries. General Betrayus has the intelligence and training, however he has also displayed a lack of character.”

    I agree with this explanation and would add that knowledge, intelligence and common sense are qualities of “value” when exercised to improve the lives of all of humanity and not just a select group among us. Furthermore, any General addressing the United States Congress with statements concerning an ongoing war should be obligated to take an oath before any statements are made.

    “All warfare is based on deception.” - Sun Tzu Wu

  20. Wildlander September 29th, 2007 9:46 pm

    This article is a farce and an attempt to hide the political appointments of generals.

    It is an attempt by the corruption in our governmnet to suppress antiwar dissent. Rather than talk giving support to the anti-war generals, notice how it protects only pro-war Bush prmotoed generals. It is a pro-war propoganda article. And I am sickened that Common Dreams would chose to print it.

    The fascism of this piece is clearly demonstrated by the authors statement in this article “The corruption and betrayal of these brave American Generals are preventing us from winning.”

    The author of this piece is pro war, pro Bush and he turning the table and using our own valid points (brough early against Bush promoted generals) nefariously against us.

    So, what we have is true generals of honor being thrown out and replaced by Bush appointed generals. Then using our own arguments for attacking such political appointed generals against us to insure they are not then removed. They replace with corrupted generals and then they u8se our own arguments to protect those generals once the political replacements have occured.

    Folks you should be sickened by Common Dreams for printing this filth.

  21. Wildlander September 29th, 2007 10:04 pm

    As for the generals intelligence. I agree they are very intelligent. But not Patreus. He married the daughter of the Superintendent of the US Military Academy. The school that artificially gave him honors in the graduating class.

    There is enough political bullshit here to make anyone puke. And the fact that he was given cush jobs just like Bush as he advanced in his career - never having seen a real battle on the ground.

    People. Wake up. This guy is a politician in the military gab and a political appointment. He is essentially a civilian and corrupt insider to what was otherwise was a great military.

    But my main point is that only the pro-Bush voice is being promoted in the military and those generals who speak out are being pushed out of the military. Just like the attorney ‘generals’. The result is that we no longer have a democratic military. We have a pro-Bush military.

    And that is extremely dangerous. Bush is a dictator and the only real threat to him would come from the military. And so he is removing the honorable generals and replacing them with pieces of crap like Patreus.

    That is why I call him General BetrayUs instead of Patreus. Because he is smart enough to know what is going on and he goes along with it. As Dan Rather said, “they takes refuge in it”. Patreus is an asshole and true disgrace to this country for not upholding the rights of his fellow officers to retain their rank, position and right to speak their mind. As we say “I may not agree with you but I will fight for your right to express your view.”

    General Patreus and other Bush appointed generals have betrayed that statment and honor and the American way.

  22. hedology September 29th, 2007 10:50 pm

    The US has already said its in “for the long term”, no matter what. Its up to the military to hold on to whatever shreds of dignity they can, whilst implementing policies where Iraqis only have the right to be killed without notice, and no real political power whatsoever, except being allowed to keep themselves “out of the way”. Any alliances with local groupings are a labor and face-saving measure for the occupation. “You look after yourselves and keep out of our way, and we won’t have to bother you”. There may be some arms and money in it, as bribes and welfare support. You cannot afford to keep all the country bribed at the same time. Where is money going? To anyone still promoting the war. All promoters of this war are self-serving hypocritical tyrants, thieves and murderers, deluded that they further US interests at the same time as their own. They remind me so much of Saddam Hussein. Feathering their own palaces while their populace is thrown into wars and suffers. There is no significant difference between Saddam and the US elite.

  23. NorthATheBorder September 29th, 2007 10:53 pm

    Wildlander,

    Evidently you only want to read and see what you agree with. Commondreams should print “this filth” simply to have a different opinion. We accuse the MSN of being a big right wing vacuum. Do we really want a huge left-wing vacuum as the alternative? Its just as “fascist” to censor things you don’t agree with. FOX thrives on people who want to hear only that which they agree with. We should beware of becoming what we loathe. We can disagree violently with something without censoring it.

  24. KEM PATRICK September 30th, 2007 1:42 am

    I agree Betrayus is not a General as I would note. He is a political hack wearing the uniform. I’m not sure how he earned his nine or ten rows of ribbons, but he did also have the paratrooper badge. I don’t know anything aout his service record. He is a damn liar.

    I also think that the “baiting” issue is a crime. A horrific crime, it is nothing short of murder and I also believe Common Dreams should have posted this article. It is good to know the enemy.

  25. VooDooPatriot September 30th, 2007 3:20 am

    For those advising Democratic leaders to avoid or ignore these disgusting hypocrisies and actions from the wing-nutty right sound like advisors to the 2004 Kerry Campaign. The current National debate is being conducted World Wrestling Federation Nitro Night style…. very effectively by the right wing noise machine. Brainiacs who debate online don’t get it, but Billy Bob and “Shorty” do. I say trash FOX on the floor, trash Limbaugh…put it in the public record….make it the new norm. Bring REASON back after the dust settles. They’ve been fighting dirty….now there is an opportunity to choke the life out of that fight. Quit advising gutlessness.

  26. Lobo Gris September 30th, 2007 4:44 am

    Wildlander September 29th, 2007 9:46 pm

    “The fascism of this piece is clearly demonstrated by the authors statement in this article “The corruption and betrayal of these brave American Generals are preventing us from winning.””

    The author did not state that, if you read the beginning of the paragraph he was recapping the Fox news argument.

    “So to recap the Hunt/Fox argument: Our Generals and other military commanders currently leading our Nation at War are “betraying our troops.” They put their own selfish desire to advance their reputations and careers ahead of the welfare and lives of the soldiers they lead. The corruption and betrayal of these brave American Generals are preventing us from winning.”

    Lobo Gris

  27. RJKT September 30th, 2007 5:25 am

    One gets the impression that ,throughout the Western World in country after country , few cows are more sacred than the Military. Say anything less-than-adulatory about them and you do so at your peril.

    If this be a valid perception , then it points to a very deep sickeness afflicting such societies : where the warrior is held in far greater esteem and adulation ,than the toiler who earns his (or her) daily bread by non Militaristic effort.

  28. Jan September 30th, 2007 8:38 am

    RJKT September 30th, 2007 5:25 am

    “throughout the Western World in country after country , few cows are more sacred than the Military”

    RJKT I think this perception is correct. The establishment in my country Australia deliberately fosters the nobility of the “diggers” as we call them. The most conservative and right wing do this the most.

    After our troops were withdrawn from Vietnam War in 1972 a myth was developed by the right that our troops were spat on and vilified when they got home. This was basically untrue but careful use of a photo or two of a lone protestor shouting at some returning troops was the sort of thing played up to the hilt later.

    It went something like this: Politically the Vietnam war had become very unpopular in Australia largely because of the draft. Huge demonstrations had been led by Jim Cairns who was the to become the deputy leader of the Australian Labor Party government. After many years in opposition Labor finally came to power in 1972 and immediately withdrew all our troops from their extremely unpopular involvement in the Vietnam War. Our troops returned to Australia discretely, without being marched down main street to be cheered by welcoming crowds.

    The defeated conservative parties and the ultra conservative Returned Servicemen’s League (RSL) muttered amonst themselves and under their breath, “Never again”. So they created the myth of the dishonouring of the military by the Austalian people, the left and the Australian Labor Party. From then on the right worked long and hard to make Austarlian people feel guilty for not supporting our soldiers who went to Vietnam. What the right felt but could only later say more clearly was a lot like the “stab in the back” legend pushed by the defeated German military to explain their defeat in WW1, or like something similar now coming out of the U.S. which seeks to say that the Vietnam war was not really lost - only the “liberals” at home pulled the rug from under the troops’ feet just when they were starting to win.

    Anyway whatever the reasons, since Vietnam there has been a concerted effort to elevate our military personel to an ever more heroic status. Methods used include increased promotion of our annual ceremonies like ANZAC day which commemorates the deaths of our troops in various wars. During such ceremonies speakers say they are not celebrating war and militarism and yet I believe in reality they are. Also in order to have an all volunteer military force there are constant advertisements in the media promoting the military way of life. So called “peacekeeping” missions in Pacific Island nations and places like East Timor are also played to the hilt by the politicians like John Howard and the media in order to give the military a very positive image. The propaganda is so bad that the top General can end up the most popular Australian or “Australian of the Year”.

    How can we bring some reality into the militarism thing? How can professional killers be such heroes in our “civilised” society?
    .

  29. Chuck Cliff September 30th, 2007 8:41 am

    Although the the vote to condemn MoveOn was hysterical and the hypocrisy of Fox news to be expected, there another ugly point about this affair that should be noted:

    The politisation of the military. Colin Powell was mentioned above, but he was then a citizen and, as Secretary of State very much a politician.

    Gen. Petreaus is an officer very much on active duty — it is the very fact that his report was serving the political agenda of the administration that was the betrayal of trust as well as the constitution.

  30. holymoly September 30th, 2007 9:45 am

    parryisle: Has anyone commented on Colin Powell’s appearance at the U.N. when he held up that nasty vial of anthrax?

    I’ll bet that vial was partially empty. Didn’t some of it turn up at the Senate Office Building??

  31. swampus September 30th, 2007 11:06 am

    “It is a pro-war propoganda article. And I am sickened that Common Dreams would chose to print it.”

    Nah, go back and read it again. This whole thing is pure sarcasm. Go back and read this article while imagining that Stephen Colbert is speaking these words.

    If nothing else gives it away, this should:

    “like the similar one from Rush Limbaugh, which may be the topic of a critically important Congressional vote on Monday — must not go unanswered by the Congress.”

    A “critically important Congressional vote” about Limbaugh?

    I guarantee that Greenwald does not think Congress should be wasting ANY time on this sort of nonsense.

    Glenn Greenwald is always worth reading and, IMO, Common Dreams does well to include him here. Imagine how Molly Ivins (I really miss her) could have been misunderstood at times by someone unfamiliar with her writing style.

  32. lunafish September 30th, 2007 1:36 pm

    Uh oh,

    Kem Patrick:

    “…they are likely the most educated and informed people in the entire world, on the subjects of geo-politics, world history, miitary tactics, and the customs of the citizens of foreign nations.”

    I take issue with, “…they are likely the most educated and informed people in the entire world, on the subjects of …the customs of the citizens of foreign nations.”

    As a politcal scientist and cultural anthropologist who is also the offspring of a military recon officer I take issue with this assumption. They neither understand nor care, on a professional level at least, what the f*#k the “enemy” is all about. The interests and customs of “others” is usually openly distorted, as we see every day on the lube tube and among the folks we encounter every day in our regular lives. The notion that anyone who isn’t an American is automatically discounted as having a lesser intellect or moral and social character because they aren’t christian or some other tribalistic cohesive factor we deem necessary to discredit whatever isn’t what WE do in our regular lives is a crock of poo.

    WE NEED TO REASSESS HOW WE THINK ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD AND THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT EXIST ON THE PLANET TOO.

    WAKE UP PEOPLE OF AMERICA, IT ISN’T ALL ABOUT YOU ALL THE TIME.

    GET OVER IT.

  33. canuckchuck September 30th, 2007 3:15 pm

    I think the vial Powell was holding up at the UN was either Bush’s weekly supply of cocaine, or the secret mix for Republican Koolaid that everyone was drinking.

  34. Dr. Zimmerman Robert September 30th, 2007 3:27 pm

    American genocide against Iraq must end.

  35. Dr. Zimmerman Robert September 30th, 2007 3:32 pm

    Russian troops fragging their officers during World War I helped end Russian participation in that war.

  36. karlof1 September 30th, 2007 9:37 pm

    From the FOX excerpt: “We should be putting these generals on trial, first for going along with Rummy and just as important for not trusting their soldiers. . . .”

    An interesting idea, but shouldn’t we start at the top with those who made the decision that then caused the generals, according to FOX, to “betray their troops.” It is this admission by FOX I would have made large, not conflate MoveOn’s ad with this FOX item, and combine it with several other contradictions it contains. Too bad the headline for this item wasn’t “FOX calls for legal action against Rumsfeld, and by extension, BushCo en toto.”

  37. KEM PATRICK October 1st, 2007 6:52 am

    Hi Lunafish, it was just my opinion, we all have em. I based that one upon their education. As a whole, on average, Generals are highly educated and most display a high degree of intelligence, honesty and common sense. The vast majority of humanity do not have the opportunity or benefit of their extensive education and higher learning opportunities. Perhaps the ones you were associated with did not fit that profile and if so, you would likely have a diverse opinion and disagree with mine, as you so rightfully have indicated. I so rightfully disagee with yours.

  38. Swaheal October 1st, 2007 2:27 pm

    The FOX network is/was (I’m sure, since I don’t watch FOX) referring to the now Retired Officers who are speaking out, which they might also have done behind closed doors to Rummy and company but like all military they still do what they are ordered to do by the civilian employers/leaders, cause that’s the job you sign up for. The only way for any person to get too the top in your chosen profession, besides being knowledgeable, you still have to kiss someones ass to get a promotion that gets you to the next level some where along the line. Officers, pretty much, have to do it all the way up.

  39. KEM PATRICK October 1st, 2007 3:51 pm

    Just off of the top of my head, I can name a dozen generals and tons of full bull colonels, who would never kiss anyones ass. A few? Patton, MacArthur, Bradley, Goldwater, Halsey, H.M. Smith, Turner, LeMay, Lee, etc.

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