A Shocking Moment for Society: Tasering at University of Florida
Today’s news shows a recognizable shock moment in the annals of a closing society. A very ordinary-looking American student — Andrew Meyer, 21, at the University of Florida - was tasered by police when he asked a question of Senator John Kerry about the impeachment of President George Bush. His arms were pinned and as he tried to keep speaking he was shocked — in spite of begging not to be hurt. A stunning piece of footage but unfortunately, historically, a very familiar and even tactical moment.
It is an iconic turning point and it will be remembered as the moment at which America either fought back or yielded. This violence against a student is different from violence against protesters in the anti-war movement of 30 years ago because of the power the president has now to imprison innocent U.S. citizens for months in isolation. And because, as I have explained elsewhere, we are not now in a situation in which ‘the pendulum’ can easily swing back. That taser was directed at the body of a young man, but it is we ourselves, and our Constitution, who received the full force of the shock.
There is a chapter in my new book, The End of America, entitled “Recast Criticism as ‘Espionage’ and Dissent as ‘Treason,’” that conveys why this moment is the horrific harbinger it is. I argue that strategists using historical models to close down an open society start by using force on ‘undesirables,’ ‘aliens,’ ‘enemies of the state,’ and those considered by mainstream civil society to be untouchable; in other times they were, of course, Jews, Gypsies, Communists, homosexuals. Then, once society has been acculturated to that use of force, the ‘blurring of the line’ begins and the parameters of criminalized speech are extended — the definition of ‘terrorist’ expanded — and the use of force begins to be deployed in HIGHLY VISIBLE, STRATEGIC and VISUALLY SHOCKING WAYS against people that others see and identify with as ordinary citizens. The first ‘torture cellars’ used by the SA, in Germany between 1931 and 1933 — even before the National Socialists gained control of the state, during the years when Germany was still a parliamentary democracy — were informal and widely publicized in the mainstream media. Few German citizens objected because those abused there were seen as ‘other’ — even though the abuse was technically illegal. But then, after this escalation of the use of force was accepted by the population, students, journalists, opposition leaders, and clergy were similarly abused during their own arrests. Within six months dissent was stilled in Germany.
What is the lesson for us from this and from other closing societies, some of them democracies? You can have a working Congress or Parliament; newspapers; human rights groups; even elections; but when ordinary people start to be hurt by the state for speaking out, dissent closes quickly and the shock chills opposition very, very fast. Once that happens, democracy has been so weakened that major tactical and strategic incursions — greater violations of democratic process — are far more likely. If there is dissent about the vote in Florida in this next presidential election — and the police are tasering voters’ rights groups — we will still have an election.
What we will not have is liberty.
We have to understand what time it is. When the state starts to hurt people for asking questions, we can no longer operate on the leisurely time of a strong democracy — the ‘Oh gosh how awful!’ kind of time. It is time to take to the streets. It is time to confront those committing crimes against the Constitution. The window has now dropped several precipitous inches and once it is closed there is no opening it without great and sorrowful upheaval.
We also need to understand from history that the temptation at a moment like this to grow more quiet — to stay out of the line of fire — is the wrong choice by far. History shows categorically that if citizens do not stand up now to confront and imprison the abusers, things do not get safer — they get much more dangerous for ordinary people, activist or not.
I was scared when I wrote The End of America — personally scared because the blueprint I was tracing in the summer of 2006 showed clearly that protesters and critics would start to be hurt within the year. When I told a dear friend that I was scared, he gently reminded me of the history I was reading. He asked, will things be scarier for you and the ones you love if you speak up now — or if you are silent?
We don’t just need to speak up now. We need to act. It is time to rebel in the name of the flag and the founders.
Naomi Wolf is the author of The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot, Chelsea Green Publishing, Sept 2007. She is also a co-founder of the American Freedom Campaign, a grassroots and grasstops democracy movement.
© 2007 Huffington Post
I have to agree with Naomi’s summation. I don’t think speaking, emailing, writing, etc. is going to work anymore. It’s becoming abundantly clear these people only understand one thing. A rebellion is in order, if only the sheeple could stop scrambling through the maze in search of the ever elusive cheese, they might even notice…
Think about all the people who sided with the cops and accused the kid of deliberately causing a scene.
Think about all the people who called Cindy Sheehan “attention whore”
Think of how Kucinich who most closely represents the views of a growing majority is dismissed and ignored.
Think of how Nader is blamed and accused of having an inflated ego for challenging the status quo and speaking the truth.
Think about how we are chanelled to accept Clinton as the heir apparent.
Think about how well trained we are to unthinkingly be counted on to uphold the status quo and speak against our own interests in supporting the status quo.
And think about how we accuse others of voting against their own best interests.
Get real! Revolt? You’ve got to be kidding. Americans have already become cowed couch potatoes. It’s too late for this country. I agree that the Florida tasering incident is an ominous harbinger, but there’s nothing we can do at this point to turn the tide. The people in charge have all the power, and they’re getting far more aggressive about using it.
I just read another article about a guy who was merely filming in Times Square prior to 9/11/2007 and some off duty cops aggressively hassled him, simply because he was demanding the truth about 9/11/2001.
And, of course, there are all the stories of people being hassled for wearing T-shirts with the “wrong” message on them, or displaying political messages on their own property.
The powers in charge have developed an us-versus-them mentality, the “us” being those in the government, and the “them” being us ordinary citizens.
We’re going to have to wait for the regime to disintegrate and hope we manage to survive in the meantime.
Dave
While I agree that tasering was a bit extreme, after watching the film I believe that the student was a bit irrational in his behavior in the way he took the microphone, the way he presented his questions and the way he reacted to the police. I am first in line to condem what this administration has done to our constitutional rights but I do not believe that this instance is the one to hold in the spotlight as an example of the things that are wrong.
Hey just watch the video . . . Watch as those that are there just sit and watch also. Where was Kerry’s voice while this was happening? We are a nation of sheep and we are being lead to the “slaughter” . . . It is happening right here, now . . . Just take the time and sit through this video and watch the people watching it happen . . . Where was the voice of desent while this man was holding his arms up in the air asking “What have I done?”
If “Rent A Cops” can do this what do you think the Army will do when they are called upon to stop a protest???
Get real folks . . . it’s over the revolution has been stopped and it was done right here in front of those watching this happen . . .
I watched several different versions of the incident in question on YouTube.com.
Why don’t we ask ourselves, why so many of Meyers contemporaries can actually be heard cheering his removal?
And we should also ask why Meyers deliberately resisted when University of Florida campus security asked him to leave? It is almost common knowledge, in this country at this time, that resistance gives law enforcement officials the right to use force. The more I watched of the YouTube.com offerings the more it appears, Meyer deliberately provoked the incident. His protests of “Don’t taser me, bro!” almost has the ring of Bre’r Rabbit’s plea not be thrown in the briar patch.
Thirdly is the question of Kerry’s response. Coincidently the only video I’ve seen, hopefully there are others, showing Kerry on stage during the incident are from MSNBC’s Tucker Carlson program. Kerry is seen and heard asking Florida campus security to “let him ask his question.” Yet many commentators, both on the left and the right, hold Senator Kerry somehow responsible for young Meyers’ restraint, tasering and subsequent arrest. My question is, what should Senator Kerry have done? Leap down from the stage and throttle the cops? Patently absurd!
From what I can see young Mr. Andrew Meyers is not totally innocent. So from the incomplete and, dare I say, slanted evidence we have been treated to via YouTube.com and over-the-air and cable television news networks, why are we holding an immature, self-aggrandizing college student as a paragon of First Amendment liberties?
ok so it’s not like I disagree with the rebellious sentiment, but is this also an advertisement for the books? Give the books away, or should we steal it? otherwise this is like rebelling but being plugged in simultaneously. Is this counterculture? Living large and paying taxes and complaining about it. No wonder there’s no active rebellion lately.
secondly, the video itself is subject to interpretation. whether it becomes an “iconic turning point” remains to be seen. There have been countless turning points in the past couple of years that I can think of that turned into nothing really. Like voting democratic in the last election, that was iconic. Well maybe it was but not the way it was represented.
When I think of the inevitable coming dissent, following quickly on the heels of the center not holding and things falling apart, right now I look out my window here in NYC and I see lots of pacified people on the street buying stuff, chatting into cell phones. But I also see convoys of cop cars practicing for the next emergency. What that emergency will be is any body’s guess.
a bit irrational..
You see how well we internalize our appropriate and acceptible “behaviors” and openly and UNTHINKINGLY condemn those who step out of line and rock the boat?
The message is : Don’t rock the boat, don’t ruffle feathers, don’t demand accountability, don’t think, don’t worry, be happy.
The student in question had a habit of filming his pranks and other “aggressive” forms of humor. I’m CERTAINLY not excusing his Tasering, but he’s no innocent victim here. He went there to provoke some kind of confrontation.
The cops were wrong and should be prosecuted. However, some of the blame here ALSO lies with Mr. Meyer.
And no, I am NOT arguing that he deserved it. He definitely did not. But that doesn’t mean that he’s not, on some level, somewhat culpable as well. He went there to provoke, not engage in calm, rational dialogue.
It is time for groups like MoveOn to organize strikes (stay home from work or school and boycott all purchases) and to create a fund for people who need help after speaking out or striking — money for those who lose jobs, for those who get hurt and for those who need legal aid.
War is peace.
Ignorance is strength.
Freedom is slavery.
Turn out the lights — the party ended years ago.
“…why so many of Meyers contemporaries can actually be heard cheering his removal?”
Because he made people uncomfortable.
Because we are good Germans.
Why did they cheer on the crucifixtion of Christ?
In the second version I saw there was a girls voice yelling at the cops who kept telling her to get back.
But it wasn’t Kerry’s voice to those of you thinking to defend Kerry.
“…why are we holding an immature, self-aggrandizing college student as a paragon of First Amendment liberties?”
Are you suggesting that he isn’t worthy of his constitutional rights because he is a cocky kid?
Unbelievable!!!
Do something! Do something! No don’t do something! You are wrong to do something! You are too arrogant, your ego is too big, you are not civil, you are rude, immature, wacko, loony, self-aggrandizing, egomaniac! Don’t get out of line! Don’t do anything!
Do you see the mixed messages? Do you see the double-bind? Do you HEAR what you are saying?
The oldest republic has fallen…and it can’t get up.
Auberon,
Rational dialogue? I keep hearing this phrase…but it was a question session…in fact..he started by establishing some context for his question and “used up his time” doing that. that’s not rational dialogue…there is no such forum available to the peasants…
Shame on Kerry, shame on the students who just sat on their behinds.
SO, the student was agitated? If YOU are not agitated with what’s going on in our country then you should lose your American citizenship.
Welcome to USSA
ets
Kerry could have shouted STOP and he could have gone down and taken Myers by the hand..and protected him…But Kerry reacts slowly.
The worst that can be said about Myers is that he is not polite..if you think politeness is an important value and overrides patriotism…then you are an American
Here is Andrew Myer in his own words. He’s a kid and he writes like someone from the comments of common dreams:
http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/columns/iraq_the_media_and_shannons_dad.asp
Iraq, the media, and Shannon’s Dad
By The Andrew Meyer
Look at all the sheeple above excusing the police for taking this guy down for SPEAKING HIS MIND.
He did NOT ‘take the mic’, and saying so is pure fabrication. No fabrication is too nice. It’s a damn dirty lie. (yeah Watson, I’m looking right at you) He was given the mic and just didn’t give it up when it became clear his questions were inconvenient.
Auberon: Excellent post, completely empty of any real information (oh, it contains your unsubstantiated opinion, but no one (least of all me) CARES about your unsubstantiated opinion) and of course lacking any and all sources. Tell me, what disruption did he hope to cause? Airing dirty laundry that is (if not 100% accurate) on the minds of any REAL American.
Does this post sound hateful? It should. I am still shaking from watching this. You capitulators sicken me to the point of wishing you harm.
This ladies and gentlemen is why I have not become a complete pacifist. The students who sat there will tell their grandchildren that they helped beat back the nasty American fascist during the 2nd U.S. Civil War, because that’s what the weak do. They do nothing and then (after everything important is done) they claim how they were there fighting the whole time.
Just like Watson, ets and Auberon, a small sampling of a group that is too scared to live in a free country, will be talking about how they carried on the good fight. Just remember, you won’t only be lying to your grandchildren, you’ll be lying to yourselves.
I’m just glad that we don’t actually need a bunch of pansies like that.
just can’t get past the notion of people on here condoning the acts of the police and/or blaming the kid for being obnoxious. Clearly the kid was charged up, clearly he was loud and obnoxious, which is not quite yet officially a crime. So, he was agitated, he was asked to wrap it up, he was angry, he basically told the cop to f-off, non-verbally. So what? What if a kid has a stuttering problem and goes on. What if they are nervous? God forbid, what if they have had too much caffeine? Personally, I have switched to tea.
Upon further reading of our Bill of Rights I did not find a “only if you are cool clause” for freedom of speech or anything else. Just ridiculous to say that he brought it on himself. Better hope none of your kids get “riled” up at pep rally or whatever.
Really, what is wrong with people in this country? He did not threaten anybody, or use threatening language. He he says the word blowjob, it looks like the cop in back of him is gasping or something. Give me a f-in break, excuse my language, please don’t taser me, but I am angry.
I hope when I go downtown and get some coffee and overhear a discussion from some pod people that I don’t get too angry and start arguing with them “loudly” about some inane document like the constitution or some mad idea about our civil rights. Shame on you people!
This, and the REV Yearwood incident should be talked about and the reality of the situation is these people who are pushing the corpwarstate do not want an organized and passionate movement like they had in the 60’s, and they are implementing these tactics to make sure all of you are afraid to stand up for yourself or anyone else. Guess what, they are succeeding.
The onus is not on the kid. The onus is on the police. The kid, and let’s not forget that, he is 19-21, whatever, a kid, who obviously didn’t get enough ridalin as a child, some of you would say, snidely. The police have the weapons, the training, they use force, they hurt and yes kill people. THEY need to be kept in check, not the kid!
Basically you are saying that the responsibility was with the kid not to get riled up and I say that is ridiculous. Tasers are dangerous, heart problem-dead, asthma-dead. Serious stuff people. You think you have anxieties now, what till you are tasered. “Have you been tasered recently? Why not try Atavan. It will help with the anxiety and panic attacks for every time you see a police officer. Who is only really there to help you.”
Wake up POD PEOPLE! Although this kid is no Mario Savio, do we have to wait till the old lady who asks about her social security check is tasered to get angry? “Look at that crazy kid putting on a show. Look at all those crazy cops. What is this a Marx Bros routine? They held him down and tasered him for 5 seconds or something. Have you seen strong grown men, some of them cops, get tasered for a second? They get shaken up pretty bad.
Don’t need to wait to get tasered to wake up.
Vern, you have missed my point completely.
We have no evidence of what transpired before Andrew Meyers’ejection from that auditorium. All the videos take up from the point where Meyers asks his questions, and they are legitimate, and subsequent ejection, restraint and tasering.
I don’t condone Florida campus security’s actions at all but I also think we should be very skeptical about Mr. Meyers’ motives. And, no, I’m not suggesting some, to use your words, “cocky kid” is not worthy of exercising his First Amendment rights of free speech. But neither do I think Mr. Meyers worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as Jesus, Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. Nor do I think Meyers’ arrest tantamount to “Kristallnacht” or Tiananmen Square, let alone that most seminal event of American history, the Boston Massacre.
Sorry, but that’s my opinion, protected by the First Amendment.
Donald Trump…ego-maniacal, pompous, obnoxious, aggressive and unpopular with many. No one is saying he should be Tasered for his behavior. The public is paying him millions or billions of dollars for acting as onboxiously as this 21-year-old. What is the difference? Power through Force.
Peace,
st john
A few voices here and on other blogs are flat-out frightening. To even suggest that the student deserved what he got because his questioning was rude is the kind of complacency that will kill what is left of our freedoms.
There were students who sat on their asses and applauded when the thugs were manhandling the young man. Imagine us applauding when the thugs come to drag THOSE students out of the picture.
I was outraged over this video, outraged at John Kerry’s lack of spine. This student RIGHTLY called Kerry on the carpet to explain his inaction (which he has NEVER done), and Kerry allowed the student to be dragged away.
Our freedoms are dissolving. Slowly and surely.
If we don’t do something to stop it–and at this point, I believe we must take to the streets–it’s over. The grand experiment is over.
Nothing to see here people, ets doesn’t think it’s worth noticing that someone was dragged from the microphone and tasered for being to impolite to the rich man.
When they come for you ets, will it still be okay, or is that different, because you ARE able to be compared to Jesus, Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr.? Just curious, where is the line drawn?
Yes, a shocking moment indeed Naomi. So was too the video of the unarmed Reverend getting jumped and leg broken. What I don’t understand is how my modern women heroes (Sheehan, Rhodes and Wolf) all appear to be advocating a mass physical response to police aggression. Is that what you are advocating?
The message from the greatest civil rights leader, MLK, was nonviolence. And his message was pretty effective.
Because it is indeed easier to rally a sleepy public to your aid if you are OBVIOUSLY NOT resisting the water hoses, dogs, beatings, poundings, and tasers. These acts of state aggression of course MUST BE RECORDED ON MEDIA (picture, sound, but most importantly video as the Petraus and UF videos demonstrate) before they can be an influence. In MLKs time, newspaper reports were not nearly as effective as the film on the evening news of peaceful demonstrators being hosed, clubbed, and biten by police dogs. How do you suppose the TV audience would have reacted had they seen black men charging police officers back then? It’s the same as now. Peaceful nonviolent ACTION is the only solution. Any acts of agression -no matter how well founded- willonly hinder the peace movement and it’s participants.
Nerissa
“why are we holding an immature, self-aggrandizing college student as a paragon of First Amendment liberties?”
Vern’s last remarks answers this well.
And, in addition, do you seriously believe that if Meyer had been Patrick Henry-eloquent in his pointed remarks, the outcome would have been different???
Please keep this in mind: The drawn out video footage of his vocal and maybe physical resistance to the police forcibly pulling him away from the mic. and out of the room is irrelevant. His rights were violated the moment the cops prevented him from finishing. If he had gone out like a lamb, his rights would have been violated just the same. To his credit, his noisy departure is the only reason we know of the incident and are able to discuss the violation of his rights!
Also, hasn’t anyone noticed that the cop’s intervention also, very convieniently, kept Kerry from having to answer Meyer’s questions as well?
The pertinent facts are, the police forcibly seized him for nothing more than asking pointed questions to Kerry. Period.
I am so sorry for what I truly sense and now feel. My gut (I want it to be so wrong!)tells me that we in
the United States have arrived at a point that we cannot turn around within this narrow, black tunnel into which we have been pushed.
The governing rules that guided this grand, democratic experiment have been shredded, abandoned and stomped out by the iron fist and boots of the New World Order. Our collective sensory — our brains, bodies and lives have been shocked, consumed and diverted — and we now walk in pointless circles just like the insects whose antennas have been severed.
We must find ourselves again — and go through this together. Hopefully, we will make it out through the other side — re-group and strike again the match and flame for democracy, civil society and for life, liberty and pursuit of happiness! Vision with courage is what will cause us to prevail and not perish!
Hardball discussion with Medea Benjamin and Joe Conason:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/19/hardball-the-assault-on-free-speech-in-america
You know what, colleen, I do think politeness is an important value. And, no I don’t think it overrides patriotism.
We have become a very coarse and crude society, but that’s besides the point here.
When I first watched the videos of “The Andrew Meyer’s” performance, I said, “He’s got a lawsuit.” But upon further review “The Andrew Meyer’s” behavior was clearly intended to provoke and he clearly resisted. So I no longer think he has a case.
And, sorry, I don’t think I want “The Andrew Meyer” leading my revolution. But that’s just my opinion…Oh, and by the way, anybody who wants to taser Donald Trump has my blessing…and that’s just my opinion, protected by The First Amendment.
MESSAGE TO JOHN KERRY:
a cry to cyberspace
Let Andrew Myer interview you and allow him to post the interview on his web site.
He’s a kid you can handle it. Have some guts and take a chance.
Frightening that some (so many?) condemning the kid.
We rightfully ask where were the good Germans….. it’s well past time to ask “where are the good Americans”?
Our constitution is a shred, our country no more, wake up Americans.
Kerry is a loser, as always. And anyone who still supports his party is a loser too..
Yeah, ets, sure.
Better that he had gone out quietly, sued, quietly, accepted a cash award along with a gag order on talking about the incident, invested his award in the stock market and got rich and lived happily ever after.
You, ets, are a typical clueless USAn.
Please read my post above again. Do you still think that the police would have reacted different had spoken his remarks and pointed questions in a “polite” manner? Weren’t his questions, by their very content, “impolite”?
ets:
Do you think politeness and nonviolent resistant would’ve worked while Jews were boarded trains to Auschwitz? Or, would they have just been shot and rolled over with tanks?
What then?
ets
I agree that politeness is important but we are being asked to sit down and shut up while
4 million people are refugees and one million have died in an immoral war waged for profit
It may be that Bush’s war will be enlarged to include Iran which might trigger a nuclear holocaust.
These are high stakes.
Yes America is crude and heartless.
(Andrew is a character, but after reading his blog, I think he has a good heart)
There is some morality that is above the law. Whether Andrew wins his case or not, he was right imo.
People are dying because the US engaged in a war for oil.
Before I made my judgment on what happened at the U.F. John Kerry speech, I looked at most (if not all) of the available videos on the Internet and read some of the print news.
We have a college student who’s asking annoying questions - that’s unusual - NOT! We have “jack-booted thugs” anxious to get their thrill on by using overwhelming force on an unarmed young man (6 against 1?! Good God!). We have other students observing the incident with smiles on their faces! We have a spineless Democrat standing on the stage with a MICROPHONE who doesn’t use it to SPEAK UP LOUDLY to defend this young man’s right to ask (annoying) questions.
This is just one more bit of evidence illuminating the death of democracy in the U.S. Dubya is isolated from all protest against his policies and Laura doesn’t even realize that she’s in the bubble with him; she also thinks everyone loves him. People get arrested for wearing a T-shirt touting impeachment or posting (legal) signs advertising peace rallies or for speaking up against the administration or for asking questions.
It happened then in Germany to good people and it’s happening now in the U.S.
This issue is a no-brainer for true progressives. If you think for a moment that loud, obnoxious, impolite speech that addresses the issue of impeachment of a President who has committed high treason and crimes against humanity is not protected because it is delivered in a rude and impolite way, you do not understand the meaning of freedom of speech. For campus cops to taser a student who is not yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater and who is not advocating the violent overthrow of our criminal government is a violation of the U.S. constitution and if that’s OK with you, you’re neither progressive nor awake.
ets: Boy you sure do like to mention your First Amendment protections while simultaneously being so understanding of someone else’s being removed.
Every post of yours smacks of such self-centered self-righteousness that you look like a neocon.
You are in no way special. You are no better than Mr. Meyers. Mr. Meyers is a patriot and you call it impolite.
Oh, and by the way, if politeness is a requirement to be protected by the First Amendment, you blew your protections with your little Donald Trump comment. You aren’t opposed to reporting for your tasering are you? Come on over here, I’ll do it myself. (I’ll have to rig up a taser, but I’ve got years of electronic experience, you should be fine)
You say you don’t want “The Andrew Meyer” leading “my” revolution. Of course you don’t. You want the FU (apt name, no?) police leading YOUR revolution, right? Keeping you safe from all those who would be impolite to the rich who deserve better.
My point is, you’re not winning anyone over by inferring that not being prim and proper is an illegal act deserving of restraint and force. Your (unfounded) assertation that Mr. Meyers was just trying to ‘provoke’ is also comming up quite empty. Just what SHOULD he have done? Not asked those questions? Tried to ask then walked away silently when it was made known that the subject matter was taboo?
That’s the ‘polite’ thing to do right? Say ‘please sir, can I have another’ at the sensation of every bootfall on your face. Anything else is just provocation, right?
Where were these cops when Dick Cheney told Leahy to go F&%*K himself, or maybe Zell Miller’s duel challenging?
Naomi is right, and go ahead and use the N word(Nazi)next time, it has been and getting more apropos regardless of the right’s disapproval rating and recent election results. We all know what you’re talking about when you say:
“using historical models to close down an open society start by using force on ‘undesirables,’ ‘aliens,’ ‘enemies of the state,’ and those considered by mainstream civil society to be untouchable; in other times they were, of course, Jews, Gypsies, Communists, homosexuals.”
Wasn’t Naomi Wolfe an advisor for Al Gore in the 2000 election? And how did Al Gore react to the election? He sat by quietly as Bush stole it from him. Maybe Wolfe wanted to fight it, but she’s a washed up political hack as far as I am concerned. She represents the softer, blander side of bloody corporatism - the Democrats. US would be better off if they read Zerzan rather than Wolfe.
I don’t want that kid to lead my revolution, either.
I, personally, think he was a jerk, grandstanding and overrriding Kerry’s attempts to answer his questions, and taking more than his allotted time, but then the cops weren’t angels either. They shouldn’t have buzzed him (a taser is stronger and fired from a distance) since he was already down and almost out of the room by that time.
So it was a real mess at the end. Kerry was too wimpy to get things in hand, the kid was a jackass, and the cops were too handy with the stun gun.
ALL this is a symptom of our current society — jackasses, wimps, and violence.
Where’s respect, strength, and reason?
Let’s consider 3 aspects of this U of F incident:
1) The cops tasered the kid when he was already lying on floor, held down by 6 burly policemen.
2) The questions the kid was asking were not just legitimate questions, they were questions of burning & vital importance that all “journalists” and “opposition party” members should be asking, but aren’t — basically because they are traitors & cowards. Those questions were:
- Why isn’t Kerry talking about impeaching Bush, for the specific purpose of stopping an apparently likely attack on Iran?
- Why did Kerry concede the 2004 election immediately, with all suggestions of electoral fraud that were available, even in the first 24 hours?
3) Finally, why did Kerry see the opportunity to make a joke about the kid’s predicament from the podium, rather than, say, see the opportunity to defend the kid’s civil rights? (Kerry quipped, as the student was being manhandled, “After they take him out of here I’ll answer his question. Unfortunately, he’s not available to come up here and swear me in as president.”)
What happened to Meyers is happening all over this country; and Meyers is also represented all over this country.
A young woman recently helped leaflet a crowd of spectators in a small Barrio Parade. As she addressed a small group sitting down on the curb, a hefty woman came and told her to go away, or she would be arrested. This young woman, who is very soft-spoken, polite, and knows her rights, answered that she was doing nothing wrong and that she had the right to leaflet. Two people were on the side of the hefty woman, but all the rest were not. Had the hefty woman pressed on, believe me, the crowd would have turned on her, immediately. The big difference here is that there was no “famous” person around, with his celebrity and importance impressing the crowd into silence, and even acquiesence in what was happening to one of their own. I agree, that Kerry had the responsibility of a leader to have taken that mike and put an immediate stop to the Nazi tactics used by the college security police. Kerry has not deserved his title of political leader, and he did not deserve the “polite” ness of the crowd.
And let’s all consider what happens when you dramatically increase the federal, state and local judicial budgets (more cops, more prisons, more guns) over the last 25 years, in an us-vs-them/war-on-terror enviroment. You get the same thing as a southern Kentucky town’s sheriff who inherited his job from his father and now has better equipment, and better excuses. He will threaten and hurt everyone, and everyone will excuse him. How do you think a Police State works on the micro level? Watch the video and the responses.
These cops are people. We have way too many of them and they’re the wrong kind of people. Our response to any conflict is force (I mean mine and yours, not just the govt), and all this discredits the few wonderful cops I know who’ve dedicated their life to serve and protect.
And where are many of the military/gaurd (if they come back) going to work. Yep- Blackwater and your local police station.
Was being a cop ever a good thing? I believe so, and I wish it were and I hope it will be.
Comment by Kyle Mitchell, Freelance reporter, videographer, and columnist
3 hours ago
“As more and more inquiries are being made into who Andrew Meyer really is, the picture of a young man capable and willing to manipulate this weakness of modern media becomes ever more clear.
“An avid prankster and politico, Meyer is a regular at local Gainesville political events. In the past, he has stood on a major street corner with a sign proclaiming “Harry dies” in the final book of the Potter series. His personal website lists interests that include “getting wasted.”
“Moments before publicly berating Senator Kerry - who was gracious enough to allow the question beyond the allotted time available - he gave his own video camera to a complete stranger nearby, simply to ensure that the incident would be recorded. There are also some who have said that he was warned of his impending arrest, though he repeatedly asks “Why are you arresting me?” while it was happening.”
“Kyle Mitchell is a graduate of the University of Florida. He has been working with The Gainesville Sun for more than four years, covering music, entertainment and news.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&resnum=1&ct=title&ncl=1120931376&btclp=1&scoring=r
Mr. Mitchell goes on to condemn University of Flordia police in using excessive force on Meyer, and the did just that. U of Flordia police should rightly be condemned, but neither should Meyer beheld as some sort of hero of the First Amendment.
It is clear from Mr. Mitchell’s account that Meyer is a provocateur.
In all likelihood, meyer is sitting in his Gainsville apartment laughing at his own cleverness.
This Article concfirms and vindicates what I posted yesterday, so here it is again….
The parallels between HITLER’S Germany and Bu$hCo Fascist America are striking…The use of patriotism, the use of religion, the use of propagandized Ultra Right Wing echo chambers like FOX, the use of National Symbols to promote nationalistic patriotism, using Military Generals to support obviously political agenda…..
If you look closely at the REAL undercurrents the list is becoming longer and longer by the day…. The good Germans were propagandized and/or pacified and/or too frightened and/or too intimidated to protest…Sounds familiar!
Why didn’t the students rush in and protect one of their own???? Their obsequious response was well SHOCKING….
This Article confirms and vindicates what I posted yesterday, so here it is again….
The parallels between HITLER’S Germany and Bu$hCo Fascist America are striking…The use of patriotism, the use of religion, the use of propagandized Ultra Right Wing echo chambers like FOX, the use of National Symbols to promote nationalistic patriotism, using Military Generals to support obviously political agenda…..
If you look closely at the REAL undercurrents the list is becoming longer and longer by the day…. The good Germans were propagandized and/or pacified and/or too frightened and/or too intimidated to protest…Sounds familiar!
Why didn’t the students rush in and protect one of their own???? The increased societal militancy coupled with the Students obsequious response was well….SHOCKING….
Where to start?
What should Kerry have done, or what should he do? He should not stand as a beneficiary of the Police State. He should condemn police brutality being done for his ostensible protection, and should insure that at no event in the future will it occur.
Secondly, and maybe more importantly, he needs to answer the questions: Was he in Skull and Bones, and as suggested, did he concede quickly because he never intended to win? He would most likely answer that he did so intend; fine, I hope that’s a legitimate answer and he was only a wimp, not a co-conspirator. But the question is legitimate; and the tactics used to publicize that question are legitimate. I read Wasserman stuff about electoral fraud over and over on Common Dreams and NOWHERE ELSE. This kid made the news. Boys and girls, that’s how you do it. That’s what they did in the 60’s, that’s what needs to happen now. I don’t have his guts; tasering has certainly upped the ante. I admire him even IF IT WAS a “publicity stunt”. Publicity for himself? Likely, humans have mixed and impure motives. Publicity for the question? Let’s ask it and ask it and ask it:
Senator Kerry, are you a member of Skull and Bones? Senator Kerry, did you intend to win? Senator Kerry, did you help throw the election?
If “Rent A Cops” can do this what do you think the Army will do when they are called upon to stop a protest???
I think it will be Blackwater instead of the Army. They already have bases located in the US. One in particular is just outside of Chicago.
Last Saturday the protesters got fined $45,000 for having anti-war signs. How’s that for “freedom of speech/expression” in fascist America.
”
Our country is so devoid of actual dissent and activism, so filled with citizens cowed by cops and security of all sorts treating us like criminals, that stepping out of line in the smallest way or slightly breaking decorum now seems to deserve a smackdown. Acquiescence is not only expected. It will be enforced. And so many of us are willing to participate in the enforcement, rolling our eyes and laughing at those who would dare misbehave.”
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/
ets: thank you for demonstrating so perfectly the logical fallacy known as ‘ad hominem’.
Any other insight to add, or have you put your shit shovel away for the day yet?
It didn’t surprise me that this event would or could occur in Gainesville. I moved to that “black hole” as I refered to it, in 1995 and never lived among a group of such uptight “Gator Christians” who would push you off the road in their efforts to get to church first. Not till I read John Dean and got a fuller education of the authoritarian persona did I really tap what I felt living there those 5 years. More recently Michael Moore lectured to promote his film 911 and the ridiculous college newspaper, The Alligator had 2 major editorials, both critical of Moore, and NOTHING positive stated in his favor. It’s a bubba town and whereas there may be pockets of progressive intellectualism, the true icon worshipped is foootball; and when there is football there is a love of force and as I have shared in this forum, the passionate identification with uniforms, teams and who gets the ball is an easy crossover into political divisions also based on similar team divides.
Naomi’s work/insights are important, and as a writer, I have felt that since l995, the media has shifted utterly. Any views that are not in concert with rightwing us versus them values are marginalized if printed/aired/published at all. Naomi’s explanation of the strategy by which the lines get blurred is brilliant, true and underway. The only thing holding me to the US these days are my children, friends and a grandchild… but lately I wonder if there is to be a new migration, where some of us lead the way and pave a new path to other lands for thinkers and our loved ones.
If you don’t think that fascism has arrived in the US, think again! I watched the video and it is clear that at some point you I will have to fight back. I fear that only a total economic collapse will motivate people to do just that. That economic meltdown is in the works at this very moment. Take a look at some of the articles on Counterpunch.org. You will not like what you see. Those cops in Florida decided that Mr. Meyer’s question was not to their liking. They took his right to free speech away on the spot. I have been poo pooed in the past when I say that you will be shooting at the police in the not so distant future when the big pigs tell the little pigs it’s time to put the people down. It will be bloodier than the Civil War was. The good cops will take the side of the people the rest will have to be fought and killed. It will be us or them. All the letters and e-mails and protests are worth their weight in shit! Take a gun safety course and learn how to shoot. Get ready because to the PIGS you are expendable and so is your family. What’s the difference between your family and Iraqi family? Take heart. We out number the police and we out gun them too. America has the best armed civilian population in the world. The framers of the Constitution knew what they were doing when the wrote the second amendment to the Constitution. It was for a time just like this! And have no doubt that the powers that be are very afraid of THE PEOPLE. They know they cannot defeat us. We can only defeat ourselves. Sorry if I bummed you out but time is running out!
This idiot now says he actually (but not factually) was trying to stop the police before he didn’t and so on as the other idiot said here we go again
This is the fourth story in one day were someone rights have been violated.
The media needs to make a choice and make a choice now.
Show the American people and the world, what is happening to our rights immediately.
Don’t think for a second you will be spared when the Gov’t decides it’s time to lay down the iron fist.
And when you finally see that you can no long carry on with you daily routine because you TOO!!! Have lost your rights. It will be too late. For you and for us all.
The revolution is coming, choose your side.
~Future~
This is no less anti-American than a Man being arrested and having his life destroyed for playing FOOTSIE in a bathroom, because some COP thinks FOOTSIE is code for GAY SEX!
Kerry should resign right now, in shame, and dedicate the rest of his life to never speaking in public again. War hero? Stands there stuttering like a bitch?
And U of Florida students - yet another sign the “Y” in Gen Y stands for chickenshit. Nice to rise up in defense of your basic civil rights as they are eliminated within inches of your face.
The guy was clearly disruptive. Put yourself in the shoes of the person responsible for running this event. Andrew Meyer was clearly using the mike to grandstand and make a point - not ask questions. The questions he fired off were rhetorical in nature and he never intended Kerry to answer them. We are all frustrated that Kerry and his ilk do not give straight answers but what Meyer was doing was a low-grade revolt and it is legitimate that the operators of the event put it down. Think about it, if we accept his behavior then the next time a liberal group has a public forum it would be acceptable for young republicans to take it over with loud obnoxious rants masquerading as questions. Come to think about it maybe some would enjoy that style of democracy. I doubt it would last nor work well. This guy does not have a RIGHT to hijack the event the way he did. I agree that tasers were not necessary but he should have left when the police told him too. He was clearly in the wrong and that should be acknowledged before we get off on phony free-speech rants.
Imnop55 There are always grandstanders and people who exceed their time (even at the presidential debates!)…there is plenty of experience in dealing with them…by moderators, professors and competent speakers. He didn’t hijack the event…he exceeded his time. It used to be that the moderator would ask you to leave a couple times…why were the police the enforcers of the microphone for crying out loud! Because it was the most dngerous weapon in the room?
*snicker*
Look at all the posts by people with unfamiliar names (meaning that they aren’t a common contributer here, but decided that THIS post is important enough to comment on) bashing this guy over the head for not being prim and proper.
Can you imagine this kind of stuff 230 years ago? “Those rablerousers who dumped all that tea were just looking to provoke, they had no right!”
Imnop55: “he should have left when the police told him too. He was clearly in the wrong and that should be acknowledged before we get off on phony free-speech rants.”
What part of what he did was ‘clearly’ in the wrong? What part of democracy means that the police get to dictate your behavior?
Oh, and FUCK YOU for calling my free speech rants phony. This is as real as it gets, and if you don’t like it, send some of your brownshirt heroes to stop me. Tell them to bring more than a taser, because I cherish the 2nd amendment as mush as the rest of the Bill of Rights. (BTW, did you notice it’s not called the Bill of Privileges, or is the study of U.S. Government too much bother? Better to be TOLD what rights you have, subject to change of course, right?)
Oh, and a final question, what about this situation makes you bring up any reference to ‘liberals’ and Republicans? This was a Democrat, (at least nominally) not a Republican. We didn’t bust up any of their sacred cult meetings, don’t go bringing up false dichotomies.
lmnop55 said: “The questions he fired off were rhetorical in nature and he never intended Kerry to answer them.” Politicians are sly, evasive, and don’t answer questions anyway, so what’s the big deal in his asking rhetorical questions?
Is that any reason for the police to over-react and taser the guy? Was he sooo dangerous?? Obviously he was outnumbered by the police, so why the need to taser him?
What is the appropriate police reaction to an audience member who, at a political event such as this, gets loud and refuses to play nice with the microphone?
Need security close in so quickly and with such force?
Is being a provocateur justification for tackling and tasering? Did he not have highly relevant questions?
Is this another example of security types with guns creating their own reality cycle - overblown display of force, indignant resistance, more escalated force, etc.?
When demonstrators are forbidden to speak anywhere but in “free speech zones” a mile away from a president or politician? Out of sight, out of hearing…
John Kerry should have done something. What a totally useless idiot.
However, the ruling elite have tipped the technological and economic scales to the point where I wonder how effective physical protest is. I think things like targeted phone jams (done intelligently) might be more effective — jam the pols’ office phones such that they can do nothing. Phone jam Lockheed Martin. Phone jam Boeing. Employ communications professionals, and apply the creativity of the american people.
And when your fellow american is attacked, defend her/his right to free expression — even if their myspace site says s/he likes to get wasted.
anney: Your example is poignant and well placed, but I would like to point out that that particular phenomenon is a symptom of a democracy transitioning to fascism.
I know you are being sarcastic, and this is by no means an attack on you OR your message, but this situation and it’s exasperating trait of being applauded (or at least rationalized) by the too-scared-to-live-in-freedom crowd has me riled up.
I guess I just take it personally when people are happy (or humored) that freedom is being stifled in the name of being ‘proper’.
The time has come. You know it, I know, the world knows it. Civil war will happen here, The revolution will be in our lifetime. And who side will we choose?
These are the moments that our people will talk about in books after our bones have long been buried in the sands of time.
These will be the moments in which we set ourselves apart from the sheep, and we stand. We stand for what is rightfully ours.
The war has begun, the trumpets have been blown.
We are brothers and sisters!!
This is our fight. There is only, us and the enemey.
There is no black, white, red, or yellow.
There are only the freemen and freewomen.
And then there are the oppressors.
US and them. There lives and ours.
We are one unit, we are one people. Feed your brother and your brother will feed you.
Starve for your brother and he will do the same.
Give drink to your brother, and he will quench your thirst.
Fight not amongest ourselves, but let us unite in what will be the defining moments of our lives.
There is no rich or poor. Only us and them.
No strong men and weak men. Only us and them.
Turn the other cheek for your brother but not for the enemy.
Turn the other cheek for your sister but not for the enemy.
I ask you not, as a leader of men, but as a brother in arms, a brother in spirit, a brother in pain. A brother in sacrifice and a brother to those that wish to remain free.
I ask you in this time of our greatest need for cohesiveness and bonds built with one goal.
And that goal is maintaining freedom.
Providing Freedom for our brothers and sisters. Maintaining what was given to us by those that died.
And what is being taken away from us by those that kill.
We are blind, but only have to open our eyes to see what we have been missing.
We are deaf and mute, but only need to focus our minds to hear the call, and open our mouths to speak the words that will save us from our selves.
We are not going to take it any more.
Say it to yourself, when you lay your head on your pillow.
Say it to yourself when you wake.
Say it to those you love.
Say it to those you hate.
For it is only us and them.
Say that you will not let your brothers starve alone, say you will not let your brothers go with out drink alone.
We are one people, we are one movement.
We are the revolution.
~Future~
Rememeber the words of Reverend Niemoller:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
neomunk
I think here and on many other forums people are getting geared up to DO something, since the White House and Congress aren’t listening. It’s the turmoil before the storm, and oddly enough, this sorry incident may pull in many people who were just sitting on their duffs and simmering. So in this way, it may be good.
On the other hand, I am a philosophical student of Ghandi and MLK — nonviolence, reason, and humility provide a bright mirror for those who would brutalize others. I don’t think contempt and hostility do anything for either side but ratchet up blind fear and hatred. I understand frustration, anger, and “hitting back” on both sides, but it isn’t the way I’d choose in my best moments. Which don’t come often.
Do any of the defenders of the police posting on this site believe that George Washington, Patrick Henry, Benjamin Franklin, and the rest of the revolutionaries were not “disruptive”? In the current political and social atmosphere here in the US, we sorely need agitators.
Andrew Meyers may not be polite, and he may be an irritant. He may even engage in juvenile acts like proclaiming that Harry Potter dies in the last book, but what he did was not out of character with traditional American individualism. However, individualism and the ability to question authority are becoming harder and harder to find.
I don’t doubt that ets and others like him (or her - sorry) would have thought that many of our American heroes were out of line had he been around when they were protesting the outrages of their times.
There were many during the Vietnam war who thought the students at Kent State deserved what they got, too. In fact, there probably are still some staunch supporters of that conflict that believe to this day that the police had the right to quell the protesters.
Being obnoxious, asking provocative questions, grandstanding, and intending to make a speaker uncomfortable do not deserve abuse at the hands of the police.
As for the danger of having a progressive or liberal gathering interrupted by loudmouthed conservatives, they have the right to their opinions too. Unless they became so overly aggressive that they completely take over an event, there is no reason conservatives should not be allowed to ask uncomfortable questions of people with whom they disagree. Meyers was not screaming or throwing things or even interrupting Kerry. He was asking relevant questions, which even Kerry - although not very forcefully - said he should be allowed to ask. Incidentally, Kerry is not considered to be a conservative by any mainstream criteria, so it’s rather beside the point to wonder what would happen if a conservative crashed a progressive event.
If professional journalists and pundits asked the right questions of those in government, it would not be left to inexperienced college students to take up the slack.
It’s very scary when even the democrats begin using force to silence the opposition. But it’s becoming more apparent every day that the difference between the parties is negligible. The constitution actually is nothing more than a piece of paper.
Why are some things as clear as mud?
I can’t link an article but please do a search for the following.
Woman, wheelchair, police, more than 160 seconds of taser, dead.
The article came out today.
The medical examiner ruled the death a homicide.
It happened last year, yep, in Florida.
Future.me — That’s how I see it. The revolution is ON and it is HERE and it has BEGUN. It is between us and them. And no matter the weapons they have, I will always believe that the power is with the people. It is very disturbing, though, that so many of “us” are siding with “them” because their picture of things is still so distorted because they find it too painful to believe that these unjust and unlawful things are actually happening. They have to demonize Andrew Meyer because that makes it “someone else” and “not me”. Then they can ‘rationalize it’ and tell themselves it could never happen to them — only people ‘like Andrew Meyer’. Look at what TW posted about Nazi Germany. One day they will come for YOU. You will be Andrew Meyer. And then you will wake up.
Dear Naomi:
One of the many reasons you and I have such strong feelings about the Andrew Meyer incident is because underneath it all lurks the ancient and extremely ugly face of antisemitism.
Andrew Meyer is a good fellow, a young man blessed with an intellect and a conscience. He’s smart, insightful and capable. In fact, he deserves a PHD for his experiment in journalism. But, what is being shown is a classic hatred for intellectuals…and that means artists, writers, philosphers, free thinking clergy…this morphs quickly into the familiar epithets: “Jews, Gypsies and Gesindel.”
Traditionally, jewishness has been closely identified with scholarship, and scholarly inquiry. That is why modern intellectualism is closely identified with people of jewish descent. Hitler’s attempt to exterminate jews was an attempt to extinguish an intellectual tradition of inquiry and free thought. Hitler equally engaged in an opportunistic policy of grand theft. Of course, we are seeing these policies steering the course of government again today. It makes a good jew sick at heart.
And sadly, we are all good jews deep in our hearts. Because to be a good jew is to be a mensch, a humane and intelligent person. A good jew believes in deliberation and justice, in open discussion.
Yes, Naomi, if you are a person belonging to any kind of tradition of intellectual honesty and forthrightness, any group that celebrates the right of the individual to be different and unique in their thinking and expression, you are being targeted by this stupidity, brutishness and criminal greed.
Yours,
e.
I would agree the guy was loud, obnoxious, and a little agitated, but I don’t believe any of that justified tasering. He was outnumbered by police about 6 to 1, and he was not combative, just verbal. Seems to me, we are hearing about escalating numbers of incidents where peaceful protest is being squelched in one way or another-sometimes by intimidation, sometimes by force, and sometimes by removing the offending parties from the premises (free speech zones or shoving people into the backs of police cars). Looks like an escalating pattern here. I don’t live far from D.C., and must admit that I had reservations about attending the anti-war protest on Sept 15th due to safety concerns. I ended up not going. And frankly, if I have to start worrying about being tasered for exercising my right to free speech, it will undoubtedly have a chilling effect. I think there’s an implied message that heavy handedness with protestors is currently acceptable. And I also believe that the increasing intolerance for dissent has in large part been created and perpetuated by this administration and the right wing loonies.
mjolnir - it’s not Nazi Germany yet, but Nazi Germany didn’t come into its own immediately either. This incident is not, in and of itself, reason to panic. But when our government begins passing laws that allow the president to declare Amercian citizens to be terrorist sympathizers and take away their rights, when it condones torture, when it wages pre-emptive war on a country for nefarious reasons, and when the president restricts from his speeches anyone who is wearing the wrong t-shirt or has the wrong bumper sticker on his or her car, the signs of very bad things to come are building.
The list of outrages by government at all levels is growing. Conservatives love to hate government until it takes on the role of “law and order” against dissidents, “traitors,” and others who are not quite “patriotic” enough. For far too many “conservatives,” it’s not OK for the government to regulate businesses that, among other things, pollute our environment, underpay their workers, and create dangerous products. But it’s perfectly fine for the government to overreact to the questions from a citizen and put his life or health in danger to keep him quiet. Nice. Very American. Very patriotic. Very rightwing.
mjolnir: What a shock that someone who names themselves after a mythical bashing weapon would feel warm fuzzies and contentedness seeing someone who is talking be physically attacked. Could you please also point out some more situations where might so obviously makes right? Oh, and my the way, the police aren’t some special group to be commended, they are people with motivation to use force early on in any confrontation. Oh, and they have pieces of shiny tin on their shirts, I guess that makes it okay for them to assault someone who’s talking.
anney: I agree with you 100%, but I am afraid that non-violent action just won’t accomplish anything anymore. My fear is based on the incredible level of apathy in the American populous, the trust that people with shiny tin badges are somehow the ‘good guys’, and the responses of ‘toughguys’ (male and female) like mjolnir, ets and imnop55. Funny thing about toughguys, they only seem to act tough anonymously or in overwhelming numbers. Anyways, the BIGGEST reason I fear for the ineffectiveness of nonviolent action is that the media ignores it completely. Non-violence is only effective if you get noticed, and getting noticed by sites like Common Dreams is basically preaching to the choir. Oh, the toughguys notice too, but they just chuckle, come here to troll, and head back over to freerepublic (that mental and moral sewer) where they belong.
Point being, they’ve (they being the people who benefit from authoritarianism) figured out how to stifle effective dissent, and that leaves a whole lot of bad options for those of us who refuse to bow and scrape before our self-annointed superiors.
mjolnir,
You are missing the point, the tazing for resisting arrent isn’t the point, the point is that as you wrote:
“…orders by police officers to cease his disruptive activities and move to along.”
If you had ever actually been to any kind of public city council meeting or other democratic forum or hearing, which I assume this Kerry thing was supposed to be, you would know that Mayer’s remarks and questions, rhetorical or not, all 40 seconds or so, were far from unusual or disruptive. I heard no moderator say his time was up before he was seized by the cops. And what the hell were cops doing all around the mic anyway???
If the scenario Naomi describes starts to unfold I will just off myself rather than go through the experience of it.
I would like to think that had I been Kerry I would have lept down from the stage and throttled the cops.
Pay no mind to the trolls here…. As neomonk pointed out, funny how many of the defenders of excessive force have unfamiliar Id’s here. And also, don’t listen to anyone questioning why people in the audience didn’t come to this kids defense. Are you kidding me? What could have possibly been the benefits of like minded people attacking the police?! That would have simply resulted in more arrests, more serious charges and would have provided the cover to bust up anyone protesting anything too loudly, anywhere.
This one was one of the most shocking incidents this month. The truth is that suppression of democracy has been going on in this country for a very long time. The wealthy elite, no matter what party they identify with, have never been part of peoples story called the Constitution. The wealthy elite wrote the Constitution, many of them slave owners; yes, some of them indeed were idealistic and brave men. But it was always a self-serving endeavor from the first letter to the last. It was always about the interests of the wealthy white people before anything else.
The problem as I see it is that most Americans are chicken-shit cowards who’d rather vote for some awful singer on reality TV than for one of a crowd of rich white guys running for President. Americans know that their voting for singers may be a more effective undertaking than voting for morbid elitists like John Kerry. The last two selections of Bush have soundly proved that.
Kerry is one of my Senators, yet in Massachusetts I can harldy name a person who likes him in any way except for the fact that he’s not a Republican, so he gets re-elected for the rest of his life. He’s just another con-artist Boston elitist, everyone in Massachusetts knows it. If he had any - and I mean a tiny sliver of a shred of courage - he would have ran down into the crowd to confront the Florida Nazi-like pigs torturing a young man for daring to question a person who he thought had some representative authority in our government. And the shame, the shame of the rest of the sheeple in the audience cheering on the so-called heros in uniform. The shame of all of us for letting extemely despicable men stand up and steal the office of President. Shame on every one of us who did not stand in the streets on hunger strike until we were delievered from the vice grips of the NeoCons and the Religious fundamentalists and the extremist Pro-Israel supporters - we blew our chance at revolution. However, for our amusement, we can still call our passive resignation to the theft of the grand illusion we once called Democracy a revoution. We can even assign a color as the Eastern Europeans do to their popular peaceful uprisings. Let it be the Yellow Revolution. It’s a color we Americans are very comfortable with. AT LEAST the illusion that we even had a Democracy is over.
I first saw a video on the Andrew Meyer incident in a Norwegian newspaper. Heard from my friend in Taiwan too that she had seen it. I wonder what the international community thinks when they see a young man merely asking questions being attacked and tortured by the police? In this land that loudly proclaims itself a democracy with freedom for all?
Let me try to get this straight. Post after post and thread after thread, many of us commenting here are calling for the people to start doing something to change the direction this country is headed. And yet here we have a college student get up there and actually do what we’ve all been hoping would begin to happen: that the people would start to act up and start stirring things up.
And yet I read things such as: “I believe that the student was a bit irrational in his behavior in the way he took the micophone (sic).” “We should also ask why Meyers deliberately resisted when University of Florida campus security asked him to leave?” Or,”why are we holding an immature, self-aggrandizing college student as a paragon of First Amendment liberties?.” And, “He went there to provoke some kind of confrontation.”
Isn’t this what has to be done? We aren’t going to get very far if we stick to peaceful methods. That point past quite some time ago. We need more people grabbing microphones and resisting arrest. If the Raging Grannies can resist arrest, certainly a young man can do the same.
I just couldn’t believe some of the posts. I should have stopped after the first or second post. I’m beginning to think that our only hope is with the crime infested areas of this rapidly vanishing democracy. At least the police fear these people. And they’re not going to take any crap from the cops. The police may easily subdue some Florida college town, but I don’t think they’re going to have it as easy in South Central LA, Oakland, Detroit, Baltimore, East Cleveland and any of a hundred other places. These folks know the cops and they’ve had they’re share of abuse. Believe me, there’s enough guns in these places that the police won’t have it so easy. That is unless some airial bombing starts to happen.
And then there’s all the other groups of people - the Timothy McVeighs of the country. They know better than to post and talk about rebellion. I have no doubt these people have many well developed plans of their own and they sure aren’t advertizing it.
How ironic. The crazy militias out there and the criminals will be the ones to actually fight back, while us law abiding citizens will be too frightened to do a thing other than write.
The sad thing here is - then what type of society are we going to have on our hands?
I’m sorry but as to some of the above comments about Meyer’s arrest—
Even if the guy Meyers was an obnoxious performace artist of some kind who was trying to provoke a response — what right do the security guards have to use a potentially deadly device to stun him? And then arrest him and hold him overnight? He wasn’t a threat to anyone. Why does Kerry get some taxpayer funded SS to “protect” him while the rest of us get pissed on?
Amnesty International has a report on many cases of people who died as a result of being tasered.
It’s like the Soviet-Union-lite around here. Who are these people who think that Meyers “deserves” this treatment because he was obnoxious? Can’t remember a time when people had heard about the concept of freedom of speech? Just because he yelled doesn’t mean anything.
This country needs to get a grip. We act like a bunch of chickenshits who have been brainwashed into the blame ourselves mentality. “If you got yourself messed up in something well it’s yer own fault….”
The market is free, a free for all, for the corporations, but not in any respect free for private citizens. And the top-down authoritarian thing works wonders in getting everyone to line up right, shut up, and work for their dinner.
The kid does seem to have been a jerk out for attention, but that doesn’t give anybody the right to taser him. Not unless I get to taser people who annoy me, too!
I think the larger question is, why are these security guards so scared/macho? Are they just really bored and looking to prove themselves with some action, or do they not get the concept of free speech?
Either option is pretty pathetic.
Also “Vern”, I don’t understand how the final line of your comment goes with the others? I don’t understand why we are supposed to “think about how we accuse others of voting against their own interests”. Are we supposed to feel bad about that? Are we wrong for “accusing” them of it?
People DO vote against their own best interests- we don’t just accuse them of it. In fact, it’s not “accusing”- it’s pointing out an obvious fact.
Thekind of “thinking” that goes along with calling Cindy Sheehan names is the problem. Because it’s not thinking! It’s repeating!
And “mjolnir”: is freedom of speech a “disruptive activity”? The kid was asking a question- are we not allowed to ask questions if the police don’t like what we ask? I happen to think that’s a problem.
Here’s part of the Constitution of the United States, for your edification:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
It’s getting ridiculous. Cheney had some guy who never in his life even got a speeding ticket arrested at a rich people resort in Beaver Creek, CO, because the guy, with relative civility, told our beloved VP he didn’t agree with his policies in Iraq and found them “reprehensible”.
Our government and members of congress are now in favor of the use of force to simply protect themselves from hearing their own ugly truth.
but what Meyer was doing was a low-grade revolt and it is legitimate that the operators of the event put it down.
well well. so by that account, the US should still be paying taxes to the Crown of England. after all, if the rudeness, public disruption and unruliness of the rebellious colonists had been legimately “put down,” N Am would still be a colony of Gt Britain, the Constitution would be merely an exhibit in a history museum filed under “failed insurrections,” and so on.
it is legitimate to remove a disruptive heckler who hogs the mic, exceeds the time limit, prevents others from hearing or speaking. it is not legitimate to pile onto him, high-school-bully style, and taze him repeatedly. that’s cowardice plus sadism (they always travel together). that some of the audience cheered doesn’t surprise me — they are the same audience that enjoys Survivor shows, whacks off to sadistic porn, has been trained from an early age to enjoy the spectacle of seeing other people humiliated and hurt. Christians, lions, whatever, the ruling classes have always known how to keep the proles quiet and amused.
in the many uncharitable responses to Meyers’ mistreatment I read a subtle note of panic: a desperate desire/need to believe that there is something wrong with the kid that distinguishes him from Normal People Like Me — so that I can feel sure that the cops will not do this to me, my son, my brother, my boyfriend… guess what? they can and, unless restrained by the oversight and critique of an involved electorate, they will; and until it is restrained, state power will escalate — like any bully or abuser it will keep testing the limits, trying to move the goalposts.
our motto should not be “let’s reach for something that differentiates me from that victim so that I feel safer,” but “even as ye have done unto the least of these, so ye have done unto me.” a society is best judged by how it treats its eccentrics, its malcontents, its visionaries, its elderly, children, foreigners… a state power that preys on the weakest of the pack will prey on more and more as the outliers are eliminated. only by cultivating a state power that respects the personhood of all its inhabitants — even the obnoxious — are we, any of us, safe from the knock on the door in the night. why is this so hard to understand? the history books are full of substantiating documentation.
mjolnir, what were his “disruptive activities” that the police arrested him for?? Asking questions they didn’t approve of?? If that’s not Gestapo-like, I don’t know what is. In typical fascist style, you disrespect him and call him a “punk” without being personally acquainted with him. Your mind is closed.
Tazer-tease.
Sean Hannity began his program last night with a brief clip of the incident, leading with “why Kerry didn’t help”, and baiting me to stand by for his view. (Kerry can be heard off-camera saying he would answer Meyer’s question).
29 minutes later, after wringing every drip of sleazy juice from the latest O.J. arrest, Hannity played the Meyers tape, then turned the mike over to partner Colmes who took a tongue-lashing from guest Dick Morris who proceeded to cut off the wimpy Colmes’ every sentence. Yet back during the O.J. segment, Hannity knelt on silent, reverent knee as Geraldo Rivera pontificated uninterruptedly.
Choose your spin, I guess, and watch which FOX will pay.. or spay.
John Kerry has not answered the questions posed by Mr Meyers. He is not going to and he is never going to. And now Mr Kerry has some new questions. He has supported by his inaction and silence on this instance, the behavior of a Fascist State. He is therefore a confirmed Fascist, as is most of Congress and the administration. They are on the drip feeds of corporate money. They don’t give a damn for your rights, and more so they don’t care how many people are killed and how much environment is ruined outside of their own precious armed mansion enclaves. They are fat, selfish corporate cats, who will only look after the status their own exclusive group. Traditionally, an armed insurrection is required to tear down these extreme bastions of unequal wealth and power. Despite the general US population being armed to the teeth, there is little sign of the members of population combining under an alternate morality, such as the neglected US constitution. Remember that? Which shows that the moral intimidation actioned by the Police in this instance is entirely effective, and tacitly approved by “not me” crowd, who end up thus presuming that the victim is the guilty one. Human mass group moral psychology in action, is not a pretty sight. Full marks for Mr Meyers for stepping into the Lions Den.
This is what THE END OF DEMOCRACY looks like…
His whole speech!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag
Student tasered at Kerry talk, edited–but the whole speech!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpMSNjXhhhg
Student Andrew Meyer’s web site
http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/columns/columns.asp
University of Florida Police Department: (352) 392-1111
University of Florida main switchboard: (352) 392-3261
University of Florida Police Department’s Dispatch Center: (352) 392-1111 available 24-hours daily.
“You see how well we internalize our appropriate and acceptible “behaviors” and openly and UNTHINKINGLY condemn those who step out of line and rock the boat?”
As ever, George Bernard Shaw gives the only appropriate response to those who are appalled at “unreasonable” agitation –
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
“And yet here we have a college student get up there and actually do what we’ve all been hoping would begin to happen: that the people would start to act up and start stirring things up. And yet I read things such as: “I believe that the student was a bit irrational in his behavior in the way he took the micophone (sic).” “We should also ask why Meyers deliberately resisted when University of Florida campus security asked him to leave?” Or,”why are we holding an immature, self-aggrandizing college student as a paragon of First Amendment liberties?.” And, “He went there to provoke some kind of confrontation.”
Isn’t this what has to be done?”
Slavoj Zizek’s essay prefacing the anthology of Robespierre’s writings, “Virtue and Terror”, — as well as most of Zizek’s body of writing — details the psychologideological framework of those who want revolution-without-revolution.
DeAnander
About what you said on cops and normal, non-disruptive people, let me tell a story.
It happened while I was driving down a rural road near a cornfield on may way back from a job interview in New York, which was over 60 miles away from where I lived at the time.
I had just passed through a town and stopped at a stoplight at Main Street. After this I kept going and I was then pulled over by a police officer. To make a long story short, I had just paid my car insurance bill. I didn’t think, and I made the obviously very poor decision to get out of the car to ask the police officer if the ticket he was issuing me carried any points. I wasn’t going very fast so I thought this was a valid question.
As I approached his car the officer came marching out. I told him I wanted to ask a question. I was grabbed, dragged, pushed face down against the trunk of my car, then pushed down on my knees on the ground, then arrested using handcuffs. I had done nothing wrong. I was wearing a nice women’s business suit. I was a normal person. Having always had bad allergies, I had never even tried smoking pot.
My suit was covered in grime from the road, and I was terrified. I was taken to a police department. Everything I owned was searched. I was treated as a hardened criminal, and repeatedly told I could “go to jail”, starting in the car on the way to the station. It was like a Kafka nightmare. The officer wrote a police report which I later got a copy of. It stated in much detail that I had “fought him, escaped him, tried to run away, and tried to climb into a window of my car”. None of this was true. An hour or two later, after my “arrest”, upon discovering I had no illegal drugs, no arrest record, no points on my license, in fact nothing interesting at all, he gave me back my car and let me drive home.
I was later told by a lawyer that this officer had a history of “excessive force” and targeting women.
This happened in the deep-south state of New Jersey. That officer is still on that town’s police force.
“This issue is a no-brainer for true progressives. If you think for a moment that loud, obnoxious, impolite speech that addresses the issue of impeachment of a President who has committed high treason and crimes against humanity is not protected because it is delivered in a rude and impolite way, you do not understand the meaning of freedom of speech. For campus cops to taser a student who is not yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater and who is not advocating the violent overthrow of our criminal government is a violation of the U.S. constitution and if that’s OK with you, you’re neither progressive nor awake.”
How did things start in the ’60s? A little chronology concerning the Free Speech Movement –
http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/FSM/chron.html
Shocking indeed.
The First Amendment says, “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech . . .” Mr. Meyer violated no law in the way he asked his question. The police violated Mr. Meyer’s First Amendment rights in denying him the right to ask questions in that context, and to receive the answers to them. Senator Kerry failed as a leader when he did not intervene to offer a hand to the student to lead him back to the microphone from the abuse the police wrongly inflicted on him. Had Senator Kerry walked down to Mr. Meyer, ordered the police to cease, and offered a hand to Mr. Meyer, and led him back to the microphone, Kerry could have then answered the three questions. As a senator and the speaker being asked the questions he had the authority to do what I suggest. But he didn’t. So I believe Kerry was therefore complicit in denying Mr. Meyer the right to freedom of speech. While resisting a legitimate arrest is wrong, the first wrong in this case was the crime of the illegitimate arrest in the first place. I hope Senator Kerry will attempt to fix this wrongful use of force and torture, for tasering Mr. Meyer was also a clear use of “cruel and unusual punishments” which are forbidden by the Eighth Amendment. But I don’t trust Kerry to do so. He has become a defender of the corporate regime, not a pursuer of a progressive regime. Mr. Meyer on the other hand was acting as a citizen in exercising the right of speech and to be free from unlawful arrest and cruel punishments, and was denied those rights. I side with Mr. Meyer and against the police and Kerry.
Don’t forget that these incidents could have been stage by Republican filth. If it is a legitimate beef, why does anyone bother to show up for a visit with Santa? The only talk that counts is what the media lets through.
JOHN KERRY vs. JOHN F. KENNEDY in a similar situation.
Please, go to youtube and watch this video of JFK to see how he handles a difficult question from a hostile reporter:
The Video can be found at youtube under this title. John F. Kennedy was a senator campaigning for President at the time:
John F. Kennedy 1960 WV Primary
The URL for the video is as follows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyb9R_TL8M
please listen,everyone..i live in florida.the treatment of andrew meyer is the ‘norm’in florida.over the last few years a few hundred people have died from tasers in florida.tasers are not used on the hard core criminals or for heinous crimes..they are always used for civil disobedience or resisting arrest and hundreds have died.in one instance police called to an elementary school,tasered a 5 year old child and just recently in jacksonville florida,an old woman in a wheelchair was tasered to death !the citizens of florida are indebted to andrew meyer for calling attention to a most horrible reality,here in florida.
just my take … but I see it as a florida repub “set up” to make Dems/kerry look bad … The bush administration has been doing a good job of bashing Dem/Liberal “free speech” activists for some time now … They always get Cindy S. and Code Pink … and just lately John Dear Jesuit priest in New Mexico … for doing nothing … Then they got Yearwood at the peeetrayus hearing … broke his leg for doing nothing !
So as I see it, this is “bush country” florida antics trying to make it appear that the Dems do “free speech bashing” too!! Get real florida … And, it’s probably the major reason the (friken) media isn’t showing Kerry’s reaction … the media (and the bush administration) want it to look like Kerry gave the orders to “taser” …
andrew meyer is just another “pub puppet” acting out!!
ONCE AGAIN..PLEASE LISTEN..THAT WAS NOT STAGED,THE TREATMENT OF ANDREW MEYER WAS THE ‘NORMAL’POLICE RESPONSE IN FLORIDA TO CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE AND RESISTING ARREST..IT IS THE NORM HERE(CONSIDERED ACCEPTABLE) AND THAT IS WHY THE POLICE DID NOT EVEN CONSIDER THE CAMERAS..WE HAVE HAD HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE KILLED BY TASERS,NOT HARDENED CRIMINALS..JUST YOUR AVERAGE ROWDY PEOPLE..POLICE HAVE EVEN TASERED A ROWDY KINDERGARTENER AND JUST RECENTLY IN JACKSONVILE TASERED TO DEATH,AN OLD WOMAN IN A WHEELCHAIR…WE NEED HELP HERE IN FLORIDA..WE NEED TO OUTLAW TASERS…HELP US,BECAUSE YOU AND YOUR STATE ARE NEXT !!
Kerry could easily have stopped the police. Isn’t he supposed to have been a “heroic” commander of men in Vietnam? I am very surprised that he was not able to muster some of that experience to take charge of the situation and command those cops to leave Andrew Meyer to speak his mind.
Clearly, he should have informed the campus police right at the beginning when they tried to grab to leave him alone, and to let him finish his question.
Clearly, when the microphone was turned off, Kerry could have come down off the stage and insisted on having the microphone turned back on, or he could have protested from the stage.
Clearly, Kerry if he had real heart would have felt the need to go into the police station to find out what had happened to this young man.
Kerry has children. He should have had normal empathy and concern.
Never, never would I vote for him. Never.
How the dickens could Kerry be expected to protect our rights, and protect the rights of Iraqi’s facing an occupation, if he can’t even handle a simple situation such as this one.
People should read Victor Hugo’s “Les Miserables.”
John Kerry is clearly on the side of blind authority.
He’s not doing anything to represent people who need to avail themselves of the right to free speech.
The video showed that clearly.
Veiwing the comments on this article and the incident so far, I am amazed.
First, what happened was not a “stunt” as Fox news would like people to think, nor did the police have any reason to be harassing the young man as John Kerry said, and I was pissed as people in the audiance just sat on their duff and watched like sheep as it went down. But then, this is the character of the American people, to sit back