Michael Moore and Health Care Reform
He sat there dejected and indignant—twenty years ago—in our office. His position as editor of the monthly muckraking magazine, Mother Jones, had broken up. He was looking for a job that would allow him to bring his conscience to work.
We gave him a place and support to start Moore’s Weekly—a media critique.
Michael Moore has gone a long way since that short-lived publication. He went on to do documentary films, starting with Roger and Me—meaning of course, Michael Moore.
Rich, famous and Hollywood chic, Moore will open his latest film—‘Sicko’ in theatres around the country on June 29, 2007. To many of those who have already seen this indictment and conviction of the corporations that sell health care under an array of tricky conditions, it is his best move yet.
He was in Washington, D.C. last week, for a preview at the large Uptown Theatre and for testimony before a House Committee. The media followed him with a frenzy hitherto reserved for Paris Hilton.
But Michael Moore is no Paris Hilton from any dimension you wish to choose. He is a heavyweight reformer, pitching his film toward full Medicare for everyone. This also means displacing the health insurance industry the way Medicare partially did in the mid-Sixties for the elderly.
“I think one movie can make a difference;….I believe it will be a catalyst for the type of real change people want,” Moore told the New York Times.
Great movies and documentaries raise people’s latent indignation levels—for a short time. Norma Rae, The China Syndrome and The Grapes of Wrath had this effect. But films do not usually move either people or legislators to action. Their effect does not reach enough people. Their urgent 2 hour impact tends to diminish quickly, as compared with the omnipresent and powerful corporate or commercial interests determined to preserve the status quo.
Will ‘Sicko’ be any different? Certainly the giant HMOs, hospital chains and drug companies are firmly entrenched with all the sinews of power that have left this country, alone among western nations, without health care for all. They have endured easily many mainstream print and television exposés (see the New York Times, AP, 60 Minutes and the nightly evening news, for example) year after year.
Authoritative reports documenting over $200 billion a year in computerized billing fraud and abuse or the loss of 18,000 American lives yearly due to the unaffordability of health care (The Institute of Medicine) bounce off this two trillion dollar industry like marshmallows.
Having been a taught community organizer in Michigan, (see the new book, Citizen Moore by Roger Rapaport) Moore has prepared with all this in mind. He allied himself with the great California Nurses Association and their nationwide colleagues to demonstrate in favor of the film, contact legislators and other large unions.
The anticipatory media for the movie have been generous; citing the U.S. government’s move against Moore for what it claims was an unauthorized trip to Cuba. Right wing think tanks, funded by this hyper-profitable, subsidized industry, pour out inane rebuttals and offer quotes against Moore for reporters.
Unlike for other social justice movies, there is even a bill in Congress, H.R. 676 with 74 cosponsoring legislators, led by Cong. John Conyers (Dem. Mich.), to establish full Medicare for all.
That is a number of lawmakers considerably less that those who signed on to a similar bill in 1993.
There are 17 million more Americans uninsured today than in that year, totaling nearly 48 million without coverage in 2006. So you see where that trend is heading.
If Moore is serious about getting “real change,” as he phrases his goal, he will have to make at least two more contributions. First, he will need to make a comprehensive effort to get many of the 6 million or more people, who will see the film, to sign up as they enter or leave the theatres so that they can be given a chance to connect with each other for a cohesive change constituency.
Secondly, some of the millions he will make from this movie should be put into a full time lobbying organization in Washington and back in the Congressional districts to press for enactment of H.R. 676.
With all his super-rich Hollywood contacts and admirers, Moore should be able to multiply this proposed group’s budget several fold. Michael can even call it ‘Moore’s Miracle!’
Ralph Nader is a consumer advocate, lawyer, and author. His most recent book is The Seventeen Traditions.
I wonder what kind of health care plan might save us from global pollution and climate change ( ? )
Yes, Ralph, but who cares what you think?
You accepted Republican corporatist donations in your run as spoiler, so you are no different than the Republicrats to me.
And it was money well spent for them: you made sure Bush was able to steal the election in 2000 by making the count 90,000+ votes closer in Florida than it needed to be. Stealing a few hundred votes was a piece of cake by comparison; the rest is history.
Thanks Ralph — now just dry up and blow away.
Grow up trippin. Al Gore lost the election in 2000 for the Democraps, not Nader. Take responsibility for your own garbage.
trippin,
Ralph became a millionaire, and that changes people. So, don’t expect any politician to do what you won’t do yourself.
I have never believed that Ralph Nader was in any way responsible for the Republican “win” in either 2000 or 2004. Bush most definitely did not win the 2000 election. We need third party candidates to shake up the establishment. Voter fraud, stripping the voter lists, interference by the Supreme Court, the weakness of the Democrats, and other factors had a lot more to do with the resulting fiasco than Ralph Nader ever did.
It’s an old and stupid argument to insist that without Nader Bush would not now be in the White House. People need to grow up and stop looking for a single scapegoat.
This morning, I read a very good article in Fair and Accuracy in Reporting concerning Jeff Greenfield’s s critique of Sicko on CBS. There’s a concerted movement by the MSM to discredit the movie and make it appear that Moore is a fringe element. At the end of the article are the email addresses of two CBS sites that may be used to send comments.
It’s a good idea to do this, even if CBS does not really respond. Every little bit helps. Without each grain of sand, the beach could not exist. America needs universal health care as soon as possible.
LeeAnnG,
Universal health care? Would that include the effects of global pollution and climate change? Maybe prevention would be better than looking for new medicines? I mean, if the ecology dies, what health care plan would save us from that?
I voted for Nader and contributed to him and I’m proud of it. He’s the only candidate who represented my views. This is a democracy, isn’t it?
“Ralph became a millionaire, and that changes people.”
Huh?
Ralph lives in a modest apartment in Conneticut on a personal income of something like $25,000 per year.
Ralph Nader has always been on our side.
The corporations have always hated him and now that they are more powerful than ever- with every stripe of politician in their pocket-it serves them to have you hate him. He used to be recognized as out there fighting for us, and he has spent his entire life speaking out and working for us, but because the political landscape is solely corporate-owned territory now, the campaign to demonize Nader has been widely effective. Corporate Democrats seek to blame Nader before they’ll ever challenge the criminal excesses of the Right. Is it any wonder that the marks for congress are lowest of all?
Nader has gone from public citizen #1 to public enemy #1. Anyone who buys into the hate-mongering of Nader has been suckered into drinking the corporate koolaid–propaganda tactics on the level of red-baiting or patriotic sloganeering as cover for war crimes.
Those who target Nader need to frequent Democratic Underground with those who attack Cindy Sheehan in defense of partisan hacks who boast to represent Democratic party interests but who serve the Corporate state and might as well paint a big R on their forehead. Nader, at least, represents the people’s interests–the same can’t be said for the Democrats.
PJD,
That income is mostly from his investments, so he’s worth a great deal more than that. Don’t kid yourself, Ralph knows exactly what he’s doing.
Entelechy:
Nader became a “politician” because the corporate duopolists in power turned their backs on public interest and civic groups that were working to better the lives of the American people, and the only way to get his message was to speak to them in the only language they understand: electoral politics. So he is not what any serious person would describe as a mere politician; he is more of an activist and civic leader. If he is a millionaire, he has not kept much of the money he has made from his books and lawsuits for himself. He used it to start organizations like Public Citizen, the Princeton Project 55 (alumni public service); Appleseed Foundation (local change); Resource Consumption Alliance (conserve trees); Center for Insurance Research; Consumer Project on Technology; Government Purchasing Project (encourage the government to purchase safe and healthy products); Center for Justice and Democracy; Organization for Competitive Markets; American Antitrust Institute (ensure fair competition); Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest; Commercial Alert (protect family, community, and democracy from corporations); Congressional Accountability Project (fight corruption in Congress); League of Fans (sports industry watchdog); Citizen Works (promote NGO cooperation, build grassroots support, and start new groups); Democracy Rising (hold rallies to educate and empower citizens) and the Center for the Study of Responsive Law (supports and conducts a wide variety of research and educational projects to encourage the political, economic and social institutions of this country to be more aware of the needs of the citizen-consumer), among others.
Nader puts his money where his mouth is—and where it will work to help citizens and consumers.
By the way, isn’t this REALLY off-topic? Nader always has spoken out for single-payer universal healthcare, and he will continue to do so.
If you want to learn more about a person of whom you know so little, watch the film An Unreasonable Man (www.anunreasonableman.com/).
entelechy - I agree that global warming is a huge problem. However, this article is not about global warming; it’s about the lack of health care in this country, which is also a huge problem.
Restricting oneself to a single issue, and attempting to turn every other conversation into that single topic is not necessarily helpful. Your concerns are real, but unproductive in this context. As an analogy, if cancer is a serious illness, it does not follow that research concerning flu (or other illnesses) should be ignored.
Universal health care will obviously not stop global warming. But that does not mean that the flaws in our health care system should be ignored. There’s room enough to care about more than just one subject, no matter how dire that concern might be.
$$$$$$ - is the root of most evil in US of Amerika today and it is the only reason we are still having this debate. The pros for a single payer system beats the cons $$$$$$
entelech,
I’m not sure what you are talking about. Climate change is a completely separate issue. The relative merits of mainstream versus “alternate” medical practice are also a totally separate issue.
50 million don’t have access to any kind of medical care, mainstream or alternate, or face destituton if they seek it. The others may have coverage but it is deeply compromised by treating care as a “market” where the people’s health outcomes are a distant second to cutting costs or increasing profit.
I know that a lot of the CD readership seems to be somewhay wealthy and are tempted to seek privately-bought personal “refuge” from public health and environmental probelms - just as they buy pricey organic food, and bottled water from Fiji. The result of this will only be an increasingly divided and unjust society.
entelechy:
Ever notice that when a public figure is considered a threat, they are immediately targeted for class war? Think of the charges rounded up against Gore–specifically to discredit his movement against climate change–or Edwards, when he advocates for the poor and strays from the corporate-defined perimeters of representation or even Moore for the wealth he has generated, or that his children went to private school. Ever notice that it is used–class and wealth, to pit you against those who work on our behalf, meanwhile should anyone question their obscene share of the pie they screech about class war.
If Nader wasn’t effective then he wouldn’t have so many powerful enemies that other public figures and politicians avoid by being utterly and contemptiously useless when not complicit.
Yeah, go bark with the Democratic party faithful and see how far that will get your issues.
If the Dims run Hillary Clinton, I’ll vote for Nader again. Not that it matters, we can’t have legitimate elections without major changes.
As far as who “wins” better a wolf than a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
“Ralph knows exactly what he’s doing.”
And someone who chooses frugality doesn’t “know what he is doing?”
Can you provide some documentation of Ralph’s purported wealth. Or if he has wealth tied in investments, they aren’t in a trust to support his projects?
As a socialist, I, on principle, will not put any money in private stocks, and I assure you I know exactly what I’m doing. Am I missing out on getting rich? Probably. But, my values lies elsewhere.
Ralph Nader is a legend! As EDUCATED Americans should know. Hell I don’t even live in the United States and I even know that. To suggest that Ralph Nader was to blame for George W. Bush’s “win” of the American Presidency is simply inaccurate. Ok? The reason why Ralph Nader lost the 2000 U.S. election, ultimately was because most Americans were reluctant to give Mr. Nader EQUAL mainstream media airtime and reporting as well as fair exposure with the likes of Gore and Bush. Oh well. That was the choice of the majority of Americans and they are experiencing the consequences of this choice. Remember, U.S. citizens, you are NOT immune to consequence. Although you continuously demonstrate what is contrary to reality in your opulent hypocritical nation, you still have not received the hint. Tragic… and hopefully YOUR misfortune!!!!
What would Mr. Nader do on 9/11? I think he would have done the most morally sound decision he could. You see Americans, Mr. Bush is NOT morally sound from a positive standpoint, as you have found out too little too late, as he ultimately chose revenge and scapegoating over forgiveness for 9/11 (not that the typical American cares though). Mr. Bush Jr. extols negative morality, unbeknownst to the typical American. How does this make the typical all-American redneck Nationalist feel that they indeed were tricked? Hmmmm…? They don’t have the intellectual capacity to handle this sobering truth huh? Well, you know what Bible-thumping Americans who holds the aforementioned opinion - that is YOUR misfortune for holding such a nationalist ignorant clueless opinion - and someday you will suffer for your deeply held nationalist hypocritical opinion too…I promise you. Just wait and see! Time will prove that the typical American are as incorrect with demonstrating the epitome of EVIL as much as they are experts at demonstrating it, as is fitting.
Americans should have eliminated their greedy objectives from their collective mind after 9/11 instead of sharing with the world the TRUE American nature as what bin Laden accurately expected - ARROGANT AND GREEDY HYPOCRITES!!!! What a shame…
Vern,
Very good point!
It is no suprise that that left-winger Jesus targeted the hypocrites and those who would later be known as capitalists for special scorn. They were targets of the only documented case where he got a bit violent.
It is regrettable seeing two natural allies split apart by methods.
entelechy:
Ralph Nader has raised multiple millions through book sales, speaking honorariums, and other activities–but he saw this windfall as a means to empower national and state-wide public interest research groups.
Ralph has had the devotion to the cause of a monk and you can bet were there any scitilla of evidence to the contrary, the multinational corporations he has skewered over the years would have discovered it and spewed it all over the MSM. They have not because in this area Ralph is as clean as a hound dog’s tooth.
Michael Moore is not as well educated, not as comitted to movement in the sense of putting his $ where his mouth is, and at times can be just a bit annoyingly tedious.
That being said, who since 1947 (when Harry Truman proposed the first medicare plan which was soundly defeated by the insurance and medical establishment)has gotten more people seriously talking about the need for single-payer, universal coverage, government run health care than Michael Moore? Nobody that’s who!
If Ralph and all the PIRG’s with their research and legal analysis capacity and Michael with his flair for making clear and convincing advocacy documentaries can work together (along with congress people like Conyers and Kucinich) then maybe some progress could occur.
But please don’t damn Michael Moore because he is not a younger version of Ralph Nader.
PDJ et al,
If I am wrong about Nader’s wealth I apologise. Yet, he did spoil the 2000 election and will do so again to any presidential race he runs, intentionally or not.
Everyone assumes there will BE an election next year, but not if there is another terrorist attack on U.S. soil and Cheney/Bush declare a national emergency and postpone the elections while they dictate.
Meanwhile, Michael Moore does what he can, brave man that he is. But the fascist Republicans in the White House will never allow their corporate sponsors to be inhibited by any such reforms. They stole both presidential elections for them and will do so again by any means necessary, or cancel them forever.
Obviously, I no longer have any faith that this nation can do anything right, or that the people will ever force it to. We’re screwed, and so is planet Earth.
Entelechy,
I agree that the ecological question needs to be raise with absolutely every issue. There certainly is great potential for ecological amelioration in universal health care. As currently stands, the health care economy of the U.S. surpasses the GDP’s of France and Spain combined and is fast catching up with the GDP of Germany. Efficiencies gained would obviously amount to a great deal. Prevention would play a huge part in reducing the need for much, much more resource intensive treatments.
I apologize for keeping this off topic, but I couldn’t resist getting in on this issue of Nader’s purported wealth. Even if Nader were a multimillionaire (I certainly don’t know one way or the other) I don’t see how that necessarily entails disregard of his message, discrediting of his character, or ousting from the ranks of progressive political identity. There is but only a loose logical connection there, seemingly based solely in the old adage that “money is the root of all evil.” Even if that is so, it is certainly not clear that wealth necessarily corrupts the whole of an individual. The looseness of this logical connection, intended seemingly to discredit Nader, brings to mind for me a justification offered by al-Qaeda for their attack against civilians (otherwise totally condemnatory according to Islam). What comes to mind here is their claim that all Americans are culpable for the alleged crimes against Islam because all Americans pay taxes, which the government has used to oppress and murder Muslims. There are other justifications of course, but this isn’t the time for that particular discussion; my point is to illustrate how loose a logical connection that is (Americans pay taxes that are used to hurt Muslims so all Americans are legitimate targets) compared to the assertion that because the message comes from a person of wealth, that message is necessarily discreditable. I think both cases are a huge stretch of reason.
Gore cost Nader the 2000 election. If Gore had bowed out and admitted that Nader’s proposals would benefit the public to a much greater extent, Nader could have won and we wouldn’t have the Bush criminal gang ruining the future of the country and the world.
And I’m with Jaded Prole on the 2008 election. If the Democrats run that fascist Hillary, I’ll be voting for Nader, unless the Republicans are running Count Giuliani. Then I would be forced to vote for the lesser of two fascists.
Curious, with regard to Nader he “spoiler”. Why didn’t we ever hear such outcries from the right over Ross Perot’s spoiling Bush Sr’s election? The major part of his 17% of the vote were Republicans. Might it be that in that setup, Bush, Clinton, and Perot were pretty much threedle-dum and threedle dee?
JostaDragon,
All wealth should be equally shared or donated to a worthy cause like Planned Parenthood to reduce the human population, but money-power lures an individual to play games of influence to “change the system”, which are illusory. Since money is power and power corrupts, money is an evil influence, yet we are all trapped by it.
‘His personal financial disclosure in 2000 listed his net worth at close to $4 million, including $1 million of stock in tech giant Cisco Systems.
Such revelations prompted critics to label Nader a hypocrite for railing against corporations while personally profiting from its success. But in his disclosure, Nader said that aside from “modest personal expenses,” he uses his income as a “de facto philanthropic fund” for his projects. He also said that he has consistently donated 50 percent of his adjusted gross income to charitable institutions, amounting to several million dollars since 1967.
“In short, monies I earn are for strengthening civil society,” he said.
Nader is well known for his modest lifestyle. He lives alone in a Washington apartment and does not own a car. He never married and has no children. He told The New York Times in 1995 that he didn’t want to be an absentee father or husband. “That would have been terrible,” he said.’
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/candidates/nader.html
Amazing how Democrats continue to attack and smear someone like Nader who has dedicated his life to trying to help people against corporate abuses, while meanwhile being a party that’s entirely just corporate shills and agents themselves.
So, we get the strange spectacle of Dems attacking Nader because he dares to speak up in support of Michael Moore’s efforts. And this just a couple of months after the Dems all lined up in the Senate to vote to kill a bill that would have let Americans get cheaper meds by shopping overseas.
The Dems line up to support big pharmas profits, then attack Nader for trying to look out for the rest of us.
What an absolutely disgusting political party. Face it, a vote for the Democrats is a vote to help yourself be even more screwed by corporate interests. Who cares if the Dems can win? We are just as screwed when they win as when they lose.
Vern,
Thanks for that information about Nader. From that I guess he actually did NOT deliberately spoil the 2000 election, but hoped to win, which he certainly should have. But the reality was tragic, because had he not run, Gore’s majority would have overcome Bush’s Florida fix.
Maybe I should retire from all this forum discussion, since I am so bereft of hope.
entelechy–no you’re not. It is a worthy topic of investigation.
But, when all is considered—all the variables that contributed to Bush bullying his way into the Whitehouse, why do you suppose just the aspect of Nader in Florida is highlighted?
No one ever mentions the fact that Gore had to run with the Clinton impeachment on his back. NO ONE evr mention that for example. The argument could be made that if Clinton kept his pecker in his pants, Gore would’ve sailed into office.
Yet, Nader carries all the blame.
Ralph Nader is more qualified to be the Prez than anyone who has run in the last 45 years–but he’s an enemy of BIG CAPITAL and that won’t even get him on the ballot in most states anymore! He is also basically right in his critique of Moore who–being a member of the ENTERTAINMENT/MEDIA COMPLEX–knows fully well which side of his toast is buttered. The fact that Nader has not yet been corrupted is due basically to his extrememy high level of EDUCATION and his DEVOTION to his career as a whistleblower/watchdog of the MEGA/CAPITALIST industries. The silly assertion that he is rich is reminiscent of the claim by the rightwing media in 2000 that Fidel Castro was the 6th richest man in the World! Where’s the proof dummies??…..thought so.
health care, global warming, the war in iraq, american hegemony….none of it makes a bit of difference if we don’t clean up our electoral system. we cannot make a dent in any of the other stuff if we can’t get the right people in office. i’m tired of nader-bashing. the cabal stole both elections and will do it again because they have been able to distract us with all of their other nefarious doings. something about fingers in dikes….
Well put, arpedkedarki.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Everytime I hear newsmen talking about how the Republicans “won” elections, my blood boils. They didn’t win either in 2000 or in 2004, though they
tried every dirty trick in the book and then some.
I agree that nothing matters more than cleaning up our electoral system.
It’s time for the Doctors to demand the system be changed. How the hell have they managed to stay out of this so-called debate (which is, what - if you can’t afford what they decide it costs, you’re screwed?)Or do they think by hiding they’ll be able to protect their incomes…
Of course, the way the future’s looking… did Mad Max have a dental plan?
I believe the saying is “the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.” And we do see it every day, don’t we?
The answer to corporate attempts to control Congress is public financing of all election; a ban on TV and radio political advertising; a requirement that TV and radio networks and stations provide equal time for all candidates to present their platforms individually without interruption and in debates.
THEN politicians who understand that the insurance industry manages health care to feed itself ever bigger profits might feel free to obey the obvious will of the people and enact universal, single-payer health care that leaves no one out and saves us as a country billions and billions every year.
Just for the record, HR676 is the Conyers/Kucinich bill, and Kucinich is running for president. My favorite Kucinich quote regarding the difference between what he would do (eliminate private insurance companies) and what the other Democratic candidates would do (subsidise those companies): “I’m running for president..I’m not SELLING health insurance!”
If you Nader scapegoaters wanna see him back off from further runs at the presidency, then get off your asses and establish a viable third party with an electable leader who can offer some attractive alternative to the Republicrats. How do you think Canada got its universal healthcare plan? You think maybe the Conservatives or the Liberals (our version of Republicrats) just woke up one day and said, Hey, wouldn’t it be cool to have universal healthcare? Get real! We had a third party with a credible leader (Kiefer Sutherland’s granddaddy) who hammered and hammered until the major parties had no choice but to establish the program.
Nader HATERS are the cowards that are pushing our country deeper into trouble. I blame the Democrats and those spineless enough to vote for them for Nader’s loss in the last two elections. You heard me right you spineless weasles. If you hadn’t spent so much effort keeping him down we would have a powerful movement against the corporate takeover of our country. Even with Bush in office, imagine what we could do if we all united behind Nader. I will support him as long as he continues to fight for the change I want. My conciense is absolutely clear. Our country is hopeless as long as a truthful and courageous man like Nader gets attacked for standing up. Wake up America!
I don’t think Nader is a hypocrite. I’ve never seen him give investment advice against buying stocks. I think Nader is a progressive hero. Go to his website and read his platform at http://www.votenader.org/issues/index_home.php
The guy is a true progressive, and this article in support of Moore, is one of many examples of his courageous, good work.
As far as the election of 2000, it is important to look to the future. Gore didn’t even win Tennessee, his home state. Gore could have “taken” Nader’s votes or asked him to not run in swing states by advocating a progressive platform.
Nader’s own issues platform says this:
Major electoral reforms are needed to ensure
that every vote counts, all voters are represented
through electoral reforms like instant run-off voting,
none-of-the-above options, and proportional
representation, non-major party candidates have a
chance to run for office and participate in debates,
and that elections are publicly financed.
He advocates true solutions.
Thank you Zoya. I am so friggin tired of the whining and complaining about the last vestiges of real democracy at work. At least Ralph Nader put his money where his mouth is which is more than most of the bloggers I read here. How the hell can anyone who calls themselves a progressive trash Nadar? Are you folks out of your friggin minds????Blame someone====ANYONE—for our sorry state of affairs. What a disgusting bunch of scapegoaters. I am losing faith in the future of humanity. We just keep making the same damned mistakes.
and so it goes….
(a) Gore lost Florida for his own self when he didn’t demand a recount of every ballot in the state, which he would have won, and when he allowed overseas ballots postmarked after the election to be counted — which seems somewhat ironic in light of this week’s Supreme Court decision that a criminal whose lawyer misses a deadline by one day when the judge tells him he has 14 days to file something, when the statute only allows 10, is out of luck and has no recourse to the law anymore.
(b) Nader sounds really peevish and jealous in this essay. I like the way he makes fun of Moore for being fat — gee, that’s progressive, intellectual and original. And “Having been a taught community organizer”? What the heck does that mean? Is this irony? Passive-aggressive use of the passive voice? Nader has done some great things but seems like a total nut job.
geeze - where have you people been? The Republicans RIGGED and STOLE the election in 2000 and 2004 (and 2006 - but they didn’t count on the last minute scandals so a bunch of Dems made it anyway). It is all based on the polling data, their little black box Diebold machines, plus they have all their other slimy tactics like caging, scrubbing the voter rolls, and recruiting Secretaries of State to enact totally inane rules. IT WOULDN’T HAVE MADE A BIT OF DIFFERENCE WHETHER NADER RAN OR NOT.
I saw SiCKO in a sneak preview last weekend — no doubt his best movie. Go to his website and you can see all the organizing he has been doing. I think this is such a hot topic right now — this film will really get people to understand what the situation is. The status quo is so indefensible — I just don’t think they will be able to pull the wool over the eyes of even the least analytical amongst us any longer.
Ralph Nader has been warning us about the fascists for 4 decades. Nobody wanted to listen because they liked the pretty flickering pictures more than reality. Amerika land of the fake cheap substitute of everything for reality. Enjoy your republican white cotton bread grilled american cheese food sandwich while you drink your artificially flavored, colored sugar water followed by your mcdairy substitute low fat sundae. The only reason half the idiots in this country are still alive is because Ralph drug the auto industry kicking and screaming into court to force them to put seatbelts in their petro-comsumeing-pollution-spewing deathtraps. Make everything idiot proof and we’ll breed a better idiot! Don’t worry though be happy! Keep watching the pretty glittery pictures while you listen to your i=diot-pod and shove the cardboard frankenfood in you’re hole. Oh and before I forget, MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX for all!!! We want to make sure everybody gets the end of their wee wees cut off, just to make sure we take all the fun out of that too!!
Now surrounded by corporate Democrats, I wonder how MM feels about the time he got on his knees and begged Ralph not to run on Bill Maher’s HBO series? I wonder if he will apologize to Ralph.
What a bunch of dumb ‘RATs out there. Every time I talk to them about Nader, they automatically bring up that millionaire BS. That must be the official demonicRAT talking point on Nader, and those brainwashed drones either couldn’t google up that info, automatically went to the RAT affiliated sites that’s spewing the same propaganda, or couldn’t read past the first sentence in any of the write-ups on his wealth.
entelechy “Ralph became a millionaire, and that changes people.”
My god, man! Just look at his clothes! Nader, a millionaire? You’ve been listening to too much propaganda.
I saw Michael Moore here in Denver on Sunday. He was giving a speach on the film and the health care crisis with a couple of hecklers to deal with. Before him a man came up to speak who had been a regular guy with a family, job and paying into the system. He had a kid born with problems and as the insurance companiy(Humana), kept on raising objections to his bills he realized that insurance is for the WELL, not the sick. Now his son is 4 and because of him and the company he works for where there is a group plan, with raises in the amount they have to pay-he is a $12 million liabilty to everyone he works with. This is Sicko.
just what mr. moore needs, ralph nader on his side. perhaps you can screw this one up like when you handed the republicans the election agains gore….if just 5% of your followers had voted for gore, we wouldn,t have this nightmare in the white house for 8 years……thanks alot ralph.
Logical Conundrum:
Only a poor person is qualified to discuss the concerns of the poor. Since $$$=”free speech” all spokesmen for the poor will be handicapped because they possess less “free speech” than promoters of other causes geared towards the wealthy.
Edwards-Big House-not qualified to discuss poverty.
Nader-suspicion of wealth-unqualified to speak about poverty.
Me-modest savings-no public forum.
Amazing how entrenched that(jogartland) mindset is, isn’t it?
Total emotionally-driven knee-jerk reaction, no critically thinking involved at all despite the repeated evidence otherwise–and we wonder how people can be so easily duped into voting against their own best interests? I listened to some pundits debate how Bloomberg could use the opportunity to run independently to introduce issues that might not otherwise get a hearing, but Ralph is always cast as a spoiler because that dominating complicit Centrist party does not want those issues heard. They want to dissemble on Iraq. They want to posture that they have a alternative healthcare plan when it is just more Insurance industry favors. They are not on our side. Nader is on our side and it is essential that he be cast as the enemy. You would think he is Castro–for which there is also that well-indoctrinated knee-jerk response.
The attack on Nader comes from “Centrist” Democrats who believe they can abandon the traditional Democratic Party base and pay no price at the polls, because progressives have no choice but to support them. They are wrong, as they have allowed the debate to become one between the right and the Center — so all compromises move everything to the right. They have made it so there is no place in the Democratic Party for progressives. Instead they have developed double speak, where they support and fund the war and say they oppose it — talk of supporting working families while they vote to ratify treaties that have no labor and environmental protections in it — use talk of “reinventing government” to cut decent federal jobs and contract out the work to their cronies.
Unfortunately many progressives have bought that and, as a result, ignore people with whom they fully agree, like Kucinich. They ignore the complicity of many Dems in voting for the Bankruptcy Act, No Child Gets Ahead, the Iraq War. They support diversions developed by “talk-against-the-war, but support-the-war-in-deed Democrats.
The “Centrist’s” criticism is self-serving and designed to trample on working families (Pres. Clinton supported GATT, NAFTA, etc.) , the peace movement (Hillary voted against the majority of her party in Congress — both Houses combined — to provide bi-partisan support for the war and still supports residual forces there), and they support many other backward things.
Nader is a great man — did the right thing in 2000 and 2004 and we need to develop someone else who will carry the torch for progressives. If the Democratic Party continues to marginalize Kucinich, maybe that person should be Michael Moore.
To all you mouth breathers with panties all in a twist, I happened to have voted for Nader in 2000 in a state where it didn’t matter, so take your lectures about “centrist” Democrats and sellouts and proto-Republicans and “get a clue” and all this other fact-free irrational devoid-of-reality bullsh!t and shove them. You have no idea what you’re talking about — you’re just talking.
Had I known that Nader was such an egocentric sellout I wouldn’t have made that mistake. It just encouraged the egomaniac in 2004, not that it mattered much — by that time, most people like me caught on to his nonsense. The rest who never will catch on evidently lurk here.
I said it once and I’ll say it again: Ralph Nader made it easy for Bush to steal the 2000 election in Florida by draining off 90,000 plus votes. Period. If Gore had that size of a margin, there would have been no Supreme Court involvement. As it happened, there, Mr. Anonymous Get-A-Clue proto-Republican name caller, a mere few hundred votes carried the entire election and were easily stolen and then some just by Jeb purging the voting rolls.
Don’t believe me — look it up — or do you live in a well-engineered parallel universe like the Limbaugh zipperheads, never to confront the facts?
Yes, of course Al Gore should have won Tennessee, and to do that, he had to move RIGHT, not left. How would that have sat with you? My own position was that if he wanted my vote he had to earn it, and no, he didn’t earn it, so yes, I voted for Nader. But I voted for Nader in New Jersey.
Let’s not delude ourselves about the consequences of voting for Nader in the clearly identified swing state of Florida. It directly gave us 9/11, Iraq, star-wars, tax cuts for billionaires, and all the rest of the radical neocon agenda that we all supposedly are doing everything we can to fight against.
It so happens that what amounts to sticking to one’s principles varies depending on the context. I know that some pollyannish idealists find that abhorrent, but the consequences of that thinking are self-evident.
This time, let’s do something truly radical: let’s pull our collective head out of our collective ass, shall we?
Trippin
Breathing fire at us might make you feel better, but it does nothing to convince me at all. So you succumbed to the hollering of the corporatist Democrats after you voted for Nader in 2000. Many others did too.
Bottom line is the Democratic Party and Al Gore that ran in 2000 did not represent my views enough for me to accept the compromises they suggested. I like the 2007 Al Gore alot better.
Just because I disagree more strongly with the Republicans than I do with the Democrats doesn’t mean I intend to vote Democrat. I remember when liberal Democrats led us right into Vietnam and esacalated to the point we had 545,000 troops there. I don’t think Hillary will end the war and I don’t trust her with the lives of my children and grandchildren anymore than I trust the Republicans.
You may not like this and rail at those of us who feel that way, but so what. The last time we used “an enemy of my enemy is my friend”, we armed bin Laden. Now we’re arming Sunni insurgents under the same theory.
If they want us to vote their way, they have to at least show some leg, not point out the leg of the others is even uglier.
Trippin,
You certainly are.
Every time I hear an idiot like you I remember why I support great Americans like Ralph Nader
Nader 2008 !
Jan Steinman,
OK OK, Nader is a great guy. But the presidency has been taken out of the people’s reach. What next, more of the same? The whole voting process has become a meaningless charade owned and operated by criminal corporations and their henchmen Cheney & Bush - and the “Democratic” Party is too cowardly to even try to impeach them. So, what can the people do, give up and die, or……?!
Well Michael Moore supports Dennis Kucinich and so do I. The reason, Universal Health Care. So if you want to try and make a change in how our health care system operates then support someone that also cares about the state of our health care industry. Not someone that spouts talking points about tax credits, etc. I hear the same crap from the 3 front runners and really get angry that others are not included in the Lame stream medias attempt to force out those that would really make changes.
Labor Unions are the answer, imperfect though they may be.
The trouble with today’s Americans is that they think they can go it alone in today’s labor, housing and education markets.
This is a great fallacy.
Americans are now caught up in an effort to effect “politics” by supporting a political party with money and votes. This cannot accomplish anything for the average American.
You see the big secret in America is that owners of large corporations and companies simply don’t want to pay workers for their labor. Beyond that, they don’t want to give them good working conditions. Having succeeded at destroying working standards since Reagan (utterly destroying Unions and working standards in the US), these people are now going after the capital wealth that had been amassed by the working classes, including their homes, their children, their government institutions, public funded projects including utilities, national parks, timber, water, post office…basically everything. These are very rapacious people. And this is what happens when money and power starts to get concentrated in the hands of a minority.
And that always comes about over time.
The only way to change this is to create collective bargaining (i.e. strong unions, economic, consumer and labor) to use whatever methods neccessary to counter this trend. Power has to be countered with even greater power.
And the bottom line is money, NOT POLITICS. By money, also is meant land, equipment, jobs, apartments, working and living conditions.
Until Michael Moore starts a labor movement, until Ralph Nader creates a new labor movement and consumer movement capablable of bringing the country to its knees within hours through work and cooperation blockage: Until then, nothing is going to change by arguing politics, or voting.
One of the most surprising things about the Democratic Party is the fact that it never called a labor or consumer strike across the country in response to some of the nonsense that has been fomented by the Republican party in the last 8 years. Do realize that they could call on 50% of the country to for instance boycott a specific product?
Why haven’t they used this power to get results?
Powerful Capitalist Owners are bound together in corporations and have effectively taken over the tax base and the machinery of the US government.
What the Republicans have done in conjunction with the aid of a fake religious non-profit front is to funnel jobs, money and influence through these honky tonk religious corporations into the hands of their operatives, in what amounts to quasi Unionization without contractual guarantees, being more akin to what we see in the middles east - what is called terrorism with popular religious support.
They offer military conscription to the poor and “unmonied,” “unpropertied” young in exchange for minimal social benefits, in what amounts to a Faustian bargain, which is now going to cause the death of thousands upon thousands of these unfortunates who’ve signed a devil’s bargain.
Clearly, it’s not even a question of “Communism” versus “Capitalism.” The problem in the US and in the world is much simpler than that. It’s a question of unionizing and economic solidarity versus poverty and violence towards the aspiring middle and lower classes caused by the lack thereof.
I see now that unions will come back in a very big way.
If I were a union leader, I wouldn’t worry too much about politics. They distract from the bottom line.
I say start new unions, demand better economic conditions, and politics will start to take on a different shape.
And one more thing. When a political party comes to your door or a political cause and asks for donations: You might as well refuse.
Why? Because, you’re giving away money in exchange for nothing, no contract, no guarantees…nothing. A verbal contract is worth the paper it’s written on, as the saying goes.
If you join a union, and make a contract, you can drop out if the contract is not fullfilled to your satisfaction. In fact, most unions, abusive as they often are, have returned guaranteed financial results to their members, since that is their positioning in the real world of international protection racket government ( of which the US is the largest racket going right now).
Criminal activity in a union can be checked by the government. But criminal activity in a corporate driven government cannot be checked by the people. It can be broken by unions of people, economic unions.
Does anyone else remember when this site did not post opinionated responses to articles? It was just a place where one could go to read opinionated articles or perhaps educated alternative points of view. It was not a flagship for teenagers, right wing spoilers, and anti unionists. If you long to see it return to a news site, say so.
Ruthru: It isn’t? Omigod why didn’t somebody tell me? I thought that progressives welcomed dissenting viewpoints. Silly me.
Peace Warrior: careful, careful; if you call another poster an idiot the Commondreams Herd will descend upon you. They won’t stop after admirably cautioning you to avoid harsh words. They will then announce that you are a charlatan, a fake, not worth wasting words on, and so on. You can meet some of the fairest, nicest people in the world right here. They never lose their cool and go over the top. Their collective punishment always nicely fits the offense.
Back to the topic: Nader and Moore are true American heroes. With all the tact I can muster, let me just say, non-judgmentally, that those who feel otherwise are morons, idiots, fakes, charalatans, and their mothers wear combat boots with W stitching.
Sorry, Ralph, the only relevance you have is as an egomaniacle spoiler. It’s not up to Michael Moore to get behind H.R. 676 or form a permenant lobbying group or write, call, visit our elected representatives. It’s up to us! We are all we’ve got. We thank and honor Mr. Moore for the spark, the framing, and the artwork that will help us make a difference if we choose to shed our fear and embrace the fight.
Please, please, Ralph just go away. If you had not run in 2000, George W. Bush and his crime-family would not have stolen the White House. Please, Ralph, don’t hurt America again!
good job ralphie, alot less banal than usual, obviously u know this punk, moore, and fruk if u arent even mentoring him to a higher ideal and function. well, gee fkn whiz, i guess he’s doing the same to u, huh….lol.
How about the government offer insurance in competition with the for profit health care in their so called free market system. Let people decide individualy which one they want. At the very least, the government could negotiate lower rates for care just as for profit insurance does.