Alan MacDonald

Howard Zinn is right --- it's time to go from Empire back to democracy --- and this 'corporatist Empire' is making it more visible to Americans every day.

The history of revolutions for democracy over empire has always been that the most oppressive, tyrannical, and deceitful empires against peoples’ own interests are the ripest for revolution, eg. British Empire oppressing American colonists causing the American Revolution; Louis XVI oppression and looting of French masses causing the French Revolution; Batista’s pawn fascism for American corporate and gambling oppression of peasants causing the Cuban Revolution; and most recently the Soviet Empire’s political economic oppression of their own people causing the 2nd Russian Revolution.

Therefore, the good news today in America is that the ruling-elite ‘corporatist Empire’ controlling our country through the façade of its two-part, ‘Vichy’ sham of faux-democracy is clearly the most extreme example of non-democratic oppression and tyranny on its own people in the world today ---- and thus a cleansing democratic revolution is absolutely certain for the American people to overthrow this hidden ‘corporatist Empire’ that has grown like a cancer in our midst, and to RE-establish American democracy over an Empire ---- just like we did in 1776.

The good news about this ‘corporatist Empire’ created financial crisis and subsequent demand for a ‘bailout’ heist of our treasury is that it has enraged average people --- just like the British Empire’s politically implemented royal stamp taxes, and economical implemented British East India Corporation tea monopoly lit the fuse for the first American Revolution against the dual political and economic oppressions that are ALWAYS combined by all empires.

The intolerable level of economic oppression and pain we are now experiencing is teaching average Americans domestically that the traditional ‘lance in the eye’ that empires militarily inflict on their foreign resource territories abroad (like Iraq), is now being matched by a domestic and economic ‘lance in the wallet’ at home (on us and our children). Hannah Arendt famously tried to spread this truth to modern countries since the Nazi Empire by presciently warning, “Empire abroad (always) entails tyranny at home.” But this lesson is now being learned more painfully by average Americans through direct experience with that ‘lance of Empire’.

P.S. Thank you Mr. Zinn

Here you go this is what one billion looks like:

http://www.i69tour.org/billion.html

>>Innocent children and adults have been horribly murdered by U.S. government thugs in Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Philadelphia MOVE house<<

I was there and the people in the MOVE house were in NO way innocent other than *perhaps* the children. They deserved to be arrested and arraigned, though certainly not killed. Also it was not the US government that did it it was the Philly police department.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/miami-dade/breaking-news/story/698172.html

I tried to post a bunch of links . Apparently I do not know how to do it correctly. I have an old pc and , if I surf alot of sites, I get logged off.

So, I guese that makes you right. American homebuyers are, for the most part, greedy and stupid.

It may have follow3ed the letter of the law , but certainly not the spirit.

http://www.dclabor.org/ht/display/ArticleDetails/i/68900/pid/527http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archive...

http://www.propertycrossroads.com/foreclosure-scams-prey-on-the-elderly/

You do not meed to worry--teh House will most certainly pass the Housing Bai today, with NOTHING in it for people who were scammed.

http://www.realtor.org/press_room/news_releases/2008/homeownership_protection_older_americans_feb08

http://www.realtor.org/press_room/news_releases/2008/homeownership_protection_older_americans_feb08

Blessings, favor, and long life to Howard Zinn. This honerable ancient one in our midst is a national treasure who speaks with clarity, force, and simplicity on the matters most in need of addressing..

Poet

My understanding is that the article calls for a system based on Social Democracy. What we now have is a hegemonic, imperialistic dictatorship with a useless, humongous military, all supported by the Congress. How can we go from here to there?

It is obvious that the rich and the powerful, who are now at people's jugular, are not going to lie down and play dead, neither then should the people. It may be a long journey for the people to get there, but there they can get if they have the will to do so.

Considering that 90% of those now running the regime are rich crooks, it is urgent for the people to take the first step, which is:

On the Election Day please, please, please vote out ALL the incumbent office holders, especially senators and House members. Don’t just kick a Democrat out for a Republican or vice versa. In other words, don’t vote for anyone who claims to be a Democrat or a Republican. Those incumbent rich crooks have never passed the smell test.

Elect anyone but—THE RICH CROOKS NOW HOLDING OFFICE.

I put together some calculations dealing with the increase in daily borrowing to finance US government, corporate and consummer debt for a posting at another site. Currently, that amount is about $2.2 Billion per day. When the "Wall Street bailout" plus its bribes and other recent bailouts are combined with projected revenue shortfalls and increases in corporate and consumer debt, the amonut of daily borrowing more than doubles to almost $5 Billion per day. Such an amount is likely to cause a crisis in the global financial system and the related global system of commerce that will drawf the crisis caused by the protectionist tariffs raised during 1929-1933, which contributed greatly to the depth and length of the Great Depression.

What follows is a reply to the information above:

"If America stops buying, many countries cannot sell. They really want us to keep buying, as they get some value from the dollars received."

This was my response:

Ring around the rosie
A pocket full of poseys
Ashes, Ashes
We all fall down

Well, the rhyme refers to The Plague, but it might as well refer to the situation you describe.

If I were manufacturing goods in China or elsewhere, I would demand payment in my national currency. The same goes if I'm an oil exporter. Yes, this would create inflation in my currency as its demand would grow. But at the same time the dollar gets cheaper, which allows me to buy US agricultural goods, weapons, land, businesses, or whatever in greater quantities than before. And since the US now needs my national currency to buy my products, the USA would need to accumulate a reserve of my national currency. At some future point, a tenuous balance would be arrived at and the exchange rate would become somewhat stabilized. (The Bretton Woods agreement established the International Monetary Fund to perform this essential international service, which was discontinued by Nixon in favor of Kissenger's Dollar Hegemony plan.) IMO, the dollar has a long way to fall to reach whatever value it still has.

As implied, the deviation from the Bretton Woods system is at the root of the potential destabilization of global trade. Hopefully, it won't take a global depression and world war to return to such a system, perhaps using some newly created non-national currency--The Global--as the primary reserve currency.

For better or worse, we must have an easily portable medium of exchange to facilitate commerce. The denarius worked until it was debased, as did sterling then the dollar. The gold bugs will demand a return to their standard, which I see as implausible. Now that the dollar crisis is fully formed, we have many countries calling for reform of the international monetary system. Now that the US lacks leverage over those countries, perhaps a sane agreemnet reinstituting something like the Bretton Woods System will be arrived at.

A rather vague response causes me to post the following reply:

What I hope we avoid is a repeat of the events of 1929-1933 when very high protectionist tariffs were erected globally that slowed the flow of international commerce, and thus monetary flows, to a trickle, which happened to be a major contributor to the length and depth of the Great Depression. With holders of US debt rightly concerned about its value and redeemability, and the massive amounts of additional borrowing the so-called bailout bill will impose as I note further up the thread--up to $5 billion per day--the world community must make arrangements to abandon the dollar as the main trading and reserve currency before the whole system siezes-up, which would really be a calamity. The merrygoround consumeristic ponzi scam has created gross imbalances in the global economy that will correct one way or another--managed or unmanaged. Economic "pain" is going to be inflicted, but I believe its scope can be limited to the USA and UK, the two economies most out-of-balance.

Most important, the US government MUST return to living within its means. This entails massive cuts in defense, withdrawl from the seven conflicts its now involved in--Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, Iran, Colombia, Bolivia, and Venezuela--and cancellation of the Bush tax cuts--just for starters. This would curtail some of the government caused "crowding out" in the credit markets (which I discussed two years ago on this forum), and allow for some recapitalization of the banking system. Such actions will be anathema to BushCo, but that doesn't mean they are the wrong things to do--in fact, I would argue that's why they are exactly the right things to do.

The age of the US Empire is now over. And its excesses will usher in an age of austerity. Let us hope it's no worse than that.

If you watched the Dean Baker interview clip, you saw he was very exasperated, but for reasons beyond the comments he made. All of the above is a part of its cause. It's also one of the so far unstated reasons why the House ought to vote down the now $800+ Billion "rescue" act.

I think Baker feels the bill will cause more harm than good, although he doesn't specifically say that. But I will: The "bailout bill" will cause far more harm than good. Once that money goes down the Wall Street Rat Hole, it won't be available to help the people who really need assistance.

Only such a bold approach can save the nation - not as an empire, but as a democracy.

-don't hold your breath and wait for the Democrats. They sat around while millions lost their homes and made bankruptsy laws tougher for the little guy- us.

But oh boy do they come running when its time for a bailout for the big guys and a wealth transfer upwards!

Friday is the day of "wreckoning."

I say all out anarchy! Down with the whole system! Then the masses can kill each other for food!

The Emperor needs that $700 Billion to build a new Death Star.

"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats

A Voice Apart

My one and biggest question is: If the markets, as proclaimed by free marketeers and economists, are self correcting without governmental regulation and interference, why do they need governmental interference? They (the free marketeers) say the markets are self-correcting -- so let them correct themselves without the governmental bailouts for the already extremely wealthy.

Spend the money on those who really deserve it: the common public. It is your own money, after all.

Why not give the $700 billion to local banks all across America that chose not to make bad investments? Reward those who did not screw up, instead of those who did.

For God's sake, didn't congress just pass a bill that requires people with credit card debt to pay it back until they die, but now they want to bail out mega-rich Wall St pricks! It is incredible.

As Bob Dylan said, "Steal a little and they'll throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they'll make you king (John McKing in the Keating 5).

Invest that 700billion into providing universal healthcare for the people instead. Most people default on their mortgage cause they can't pay their medical bills.

Invest in alternative energy and international co-operation: Buy solar panels from Germany and wind turbines from China have them shipped here on Norweigen freighters registered in Panama burning Saudi fuel , have them installed by temporary Mexican laborers (who we can deport before they collect any benefits) Once the grid is up and running we can sell it out to a European Power consortium that will hire customer service representatives from lndia to hanle all billing inquiries. Then we can just sit back in our in our plug in hybrid Priuses from Japan, charge 'em up, and drive ourselves to the poor-house.

488$$$$ BILLION SPENDING SPREE????!!!
488 BILLION SPENDING BILL FOR PENTAGON SLIPS PASSED MEDIA ON SATURDAY NIGHT. SENATE ON SATURDAY NIGHT VOTED ON GIVING THE PENT 488 BILLION FOR WARS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN. Bush is on his last give away before the vault is closed drunken spending spree.
If true then start to ask questions NOW Why a 700 billion give away to his foreign friends and now this???

We will all be deciding, through our action/inaction, whether this will be a democracy in the service of its citizens or a corporatist empire in the service of the top 1% (but ultimately in service of no one). Only those who do not know better - which includes those who have "benefited" - will support the latter. The writing's on the wall. This empire is going down and will take those who cling to it down with it. We need to be busy developing the alternative right now. Maybe there'll have to be a shadow democratic government for some time. Re-creating a nation is daunting task, but it's what's on our plates, folks. The good news is we have a great deal of collective knowledge about what does and doesn't work. There are many democratic models out there today working quite well.

LET'S FIRE THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS OUT OF THE US GOVERNMENT. LET'S START A UNITED PEOPLE'S PARTY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (COMPOSED OF THIRD POLITICAL PARTY CANDIDATES) !!

HELLO ALL: And indeed, the Bailout by the US tax payers is literally grand theft on our noses. it is a paycheck of $700 Billion dollars from the US tax payers to the capitalist financial oligarchcs represented by The Democrats and The Republicans (The political parties of the capitalist financial oligarchs).

USA needs a second revolution as the only solution for this mess:

Here is a great article on the solution for USA:

Solutions:
American Revolution 2
and a Humane Future of
International Socialist Democracy

http://www.execulink.com/~sixgeraghtyz/Terrorism/solutions/AmericanRevolution2.html

http://workers.blip.tv (Go to this link for speeches by intellectuals from a workers's point of view about the current financial crisis. and what we should about it !!

“We can have a democratic society or we can have the concentration of great wealth in the hands of the few. We cannot have both.”

— Louis Brandeis
Supreme Court Justice from 1916-1939

“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it.”

— Abraham Lincoln
First Inaugural Address
March 4, 1861

What America needs, above all else, is a second Revolution to finish the work of the first one. American Revolution Two must be spiritual as well as political, and it must retain the full Bill of Rights of the current U.S. Constitution.

There is no solution to this country’s problems without the total overthrow of the U.S. military/government and the parasitical plutocracy which pulls its strings. The defeat of these genocidal state terrorists is also an essential step toward solving the entire world’s problems.

The fascist corporate plutocracy and its military/government puppets will never be reformed. Those who think the rotten system can be reformed from within are fooling themselves. The corporate/banking plutocracy has spent well over a century painstakingly creating a system which is absolutely impervious to any fundamental reform. Bourgeois reformers are toyed with and sneered at by the criminals in power. Would-be reformers merely serve to perpetuate the mass-illusion that we have a “democratic” system. People who seriously and fundamentally challenge the evil system are murdered, harassed or financially destroyed — if they can’t be blackmailed or bribed. Your vote counts for nothing and elections are a total fraud.

Therefore, the U.S. Corporate Mafia Government must be completely overthrown by the American people, and this will be done best through a spiritual and political Revolution using the basic strategy of massive, nonviolent non-cooperation.

The problem is that nonviolence requires a profound and very difficult discipline. And nonviolence can seem futile and cowardly in the face of the U.S. military/government murder of innocent children around the world. Retaliatory violence against the satanic U.S. government and its bestial military agents would be pure justice, and it is a great temptation. So the only question is: would it be more effective in the present circumstances? At this point, it clearly would not be. The U.S. military/government has the overwhelming advantage in firepower, so violence is exactly what they want.

Uncle Sham is a corporate mafia thug with a gun pointed to the world’s head. His itchy finger is on the trigger — and he really enjoys murdering people. He exults in it. One move from anyone to physically challenge his imperial dominance, or even merely to be independent, and he blows their heads off with a satisfied smile. And their children’s heads too.

Then while he struts around the bloody world stage beating his chest in self-congratulation, his corporate media whores all scream their approval and sing his praises for “fighting terrorism” and “liberating” the victims. And legions of bully-worshiping, flag-waving, fist-shaking, mental-puppet patriots join the chorus, whipped into a bloodlusting frenzy by the media whores, all eager to do further violence to anyone who dares to speak out with a genuine moral conscience.

Even without fighting a second Revolutionary War to protect the world’s children from Uncle Sham, if people of conscience in America use violence merely to defend themselves from the U.S. government, then their own innocent children suffer too. Innocent children and adults have been horribly murdered by U.S. government thugs in Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Philadelphia MOVE house, Pine Ridge Reservation and many other places. Uncle Sham and his thugs have no hesitation about murdering anyone’s children.

Basically then, we’re all hostages to U.S. government violence, for the time being, no matter what we do. Therefore we need to use nonviolent methods of opposition until it becomes possible to physically overpower the devils while protecting all innocent children and their families at the same time.

That will become possible only when tens of millions of people in America join the fight to take the satanic U.S. military/government down once and for all. And tens of millions of people will join the fight for two basic reasons:

When they become aware of the horrific realities of this world and are driven to do something to relieve the suffering of innocent victims.

When they realize it is in their self-interest to overthrow the U.S. Corporate Mafia Government.

Russell Crowe on David Letterman show (or was it Jay Leno? - oh well, it doesn't matter), anyway, Russell had a lovely plan. He said, why not give every single American 1 million dollars? (instead of Wall Street)

My comments on that: Then they could pay off their mortgages and go shopping and and help the economy grow from the bottom up. The families with many kids would become multi-millionaires and many could become entrepreneurs starting their own businesses.

What a lovely idea.

Adopt non-profit, single-payer, health care!

Hire multitudes of government workers to build green infrastructure.

Article I Section 7 of the US Constitution states:

"Section 7. All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

How is it then that this so-called "Bailout Bill" originated in the Senate, at least in its present form? Did anyone stop to ask?

welshTerrier2, excellent post.

"It's easy to say the greedy, treasonous, corporate bastards created this mess and they should all hang for doing so. To go further, however, and argue that there is no connection between stable capital markets and "the little people" goes a bit beyond what I think is reasonable."

You can give the bailout to the poor people who need it most (a good idea) but what about joblessness? The trade deficit? What about the 60% of Americans who will lose their retirement if the market plunges? This is a rigged system, right or wrong, if the rich go down they will pull everyone down with them unless we fundamentally change the system. The first step should be the elimination of extreme wealth. Stronger anti-trust laws should prevent corporations from growing so large that they "can't be allowed to fail" and no individual should be allowed to own or control more than (the already obscene amount) of 10 million dollars. (That's, of course, just a random figure, you can go higher or lower, but you get the point)

Pat Gray, grab a calculator and check your math.
"let's give $500,000.00 to each citizen over the age of 18. (That would only cost about one billion dollars.)"

The Crash would be a wonderful opportunity for a new start. Think about it - the NYSE could be converted into apartments for the homeless, we could close all US Bases (foreign and domestic), cut the military budget by 99%... AH, happy days are here again.

$700 billion is a big sack of money. Instead of giving that bundle to the fat cat bankers to save their assetts, let's give $500,000.00 to each citizen over the age of 18. (That would only cost about one billion dollars.) With that $500,000.00 a person could pay off the mortgage, repay college loans, pay off the credit cards and buy a new car --- or put it in the bank to be loaned out to someone else to build a home or business. You could even get health insurance!

The crisis is solved!! No more foreclosures, the banks get the loans repaid so they can loan money to others and the economy will be in great shape. Now, if we end the wars!!! Oh, Happy Days are here again!

To do this we have to throw out anyone in Congress who votes for the Big Boy Bailout. Throw them out and vote for candidates who don't owe their souls to the corporations. Hey! We might even get Democracy here in the U.S. of A. Wouldn't thtt be loverly?

Alan MacDonald

Professor Zinn, of course, is perfectly correct about the history and genius of the American Revolution fighting for democracy against Empire --- and that is the fight that we must continue now: the continuation of the American Revolution!

But America doesn't need another FDR Democrat to "save capitalism from itself" a second time ---- capitalism is fatally flawed by the corporate financial Empire that controls it.

What American needs is a 'democracy advocate' to excise and throw out Empire for the destructive cancer that it is! ---- which is exactly what our founding fathers knew.

What America needs to do is to free capitalism from the clutches of corporatist Empire --- and to make it work for 'we the people' under the direction of our democratic choice.

Only Nader dares speak the cancerous word Empire, and surgically remove it by applying democracy to both our political and economic spheres.

As I have long said of Nader: the very most important question that the American people should be asking of any candidate for president in '08 is not, "Where do you stand on the war?, or the economy?", but, "Where do you stand on the EMPIRE that has taken over our country --- an Empire of which the war in Iraq and the financial collapse are only its biggest and most visible crimes --- so far?"

FDR "saved capitalism from itself" because he didn't know any better. He did not know that capitalism has a flaw so big that it can not be saved unless it is fundamentally changed --- just as a cancer patient can not be saved unless the cancer can be fundamentally changed, so that its 'destructive' (as opposed to constructive) growth stops.

The deadly flaw of capitalism (or its 'market failure', as modern economists say) is "negative externalization of costs".

Wall Street fully understood this fatal 'market failure' of capitalism --- and instead of avoiding it, Wall Street 'gamed' this known market failure for its gain and our loss.

The proof that Wall Street fully understood the catastrophic potential of this 'market failure' of 'negative externality' cost displacement is contained in the following February 2007 article about deep research by three Wall Street CORPORATIONS; Citi, Lehman, UBS:

http://www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi/2237.html

The following paragraphs of the article make it very clear that these Wall Street pros fully knew that the 'market failure' of negative externalization costs was massive, widespread, potentially catastrophic to society and the markets ---- and yet they choose to keep on playing (and even expanding) their own destructive, but profitable 'game'.

"The UBS and Lehman Brothers reports concur that climate change represents a classic market failure where company valuations neglect to take into account negative externalizations--in this case, predominantly the emission of carbon dioxide CO2, the primary greenhouse gas (GHG)."

"Therefore, free markets underestimate the future costs to society that would arise if the climate experienced a drastic transformation: a result which many scientists now predict will happen if there is no change to influence free market outcomes," it continues."

"If climate change, one of the most studied environmental phenomena, represents a market failure, one can only wonder to what degree the legion of lesser-studied environmental and social externalities are not being priced into corporate valuations."

These corporations (and others on the financial side of the 'corporatist Empire' that controls our global political economy behind the facade of their two-party 'Vichy' government) knowingly decided to do what CORPORATIONS ALWAYS DO when faced with any decision about societal vs. private issues of right and wrong, profit and loss ---- they 'gamed' the system in favor of private (corporate) gain and public loss!

Now this entire "financial crisis" that Bush, Paulson, McCain, Obama, Dodd, Boehner, and everyone else in our two-party 'Vichy' charade of a government is yelling and rushing to 'bailout' is caused by nothing other than the modern financial extension of the dirty old trick of 'gaming' the market failure of 'negative externalization' from the industrial level --- and "taking their game one level up" to the financial Ponzi crooks.

I explained how it works and would inevitably lead to a collapse in this Jan 2008 Alternet post to a great Chalmers Johnson article on 'Empire' --- which BTW is the singular malevolent actor against democracy in all of this:

http://www.alternet.org/story/74620/

"Mirroring the cheating of industrial corporations which used the well known
market failure of negative externality cost displacement to dump pollutants
like cigarette smoke in their customers' lungs, and greenhouse gases in our warming atmosphere, these new financial cheaters ‘innovated’ the old negative externality dumping scam to include the more complex and hidden financial negative externalities of CDOs, SIVs, credit default swaps, and other 'debt bombs' which they dumped in our country's financial lungs."

A 'corporatist financial Empire' now controls all of the economic sphere of our indivisible political economy (our whole society, if you will), and that same Empire already controls the two-party 'Vichy' facade of crooked politicians --- but now the Empire is frantically trying to expand its control to 'lockdown' control of the political sphere because they are scared shitless that the American people will use the last vestages of our 'voting rights' to overthrow their Empire and install 'democracy' throughout our indivisible political economy --- as the original genius of the American Revolution intended democracy to prevail over BOTH the political and economic spheres of self-governance when they kicked out the political AND economic oppression and tyranny of the British EMPIRE.

This is not about 'bailout' --- it's about democracy vs. Empire.

Our once-in-a-lifetime "opportunity" here and now in America is to fully excise the cancer of Empire from our founders' genius of democracy in both the political AND economic lungs of our country (as an example to the world) by continuing the American Revolution against empire in its currently disguised and deformed form of 'corporatist Empire'.

The book and movie "V for Vendetta" show where the US of A is clearly headed, as FASCISM IS NOT DEAD, and the bailout will only give it more strength as it REWARDS those who set about to LIE/CHEAT/STEAL/DESTROY and so on...

I sure do agree with your fine ideals and noble goals, Howard Zinn.

But it looks like this 'crisis' won't be the cause of any real change.
The the extortion payment's already on its way to passage, and there are no meaningful structural reforms in the legislation.

The kind of democratic-driven structural reforms that you, Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney and a few others advocate, have as yet no launch pad; no powerful-enough political party or movement to get wide public attention, let alone momentum.

I keep working on building the Green Party in my state, and I hope more progressives will begin making more hands-on efforts in the field, in their respective ways.
It's a long haul to change a system this big, this entrenched, this corrupt.
I believe it can be done -- but only with a lot more groundwork. In short, with more direct action and less theoretical talk.

So much is wrong and so much of the analysis seems misguided to me.

First, let's begin with my good friends right here on CD.

We all quite legitimately point out the total lack of credibility connected with all things Bush. No reasonable person could question the veracity of Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine. The reality that Bush et al use shock and awe and fear to manipulate both domestic and worldwide events does not, however, necessarily mean that there is not a severe financial crisis in the US.

As to whether we seek to bail out capitalism in its dying days or we don't, it seems nevertheless that putting the needs of the weakest and poorest among us should be paramount. Perhaps some would argue that until capitalism collapses, all roads lead nowhere and that we cannot "save the little people" until a more egalitarian economic system is empowered. I'm not sure I would disagree with that, but still, it's hard to turn away from stopgap measures knowing that so many will suffer so much.

That said, I turn my attention to the current "bailout." It's easy to say the greedy, treasonous, corporate bastards created this mess and they should all hang for doing so. To go further, however, and argue that there is no connection between stable capital markets and "the little people" goes a bit beyond what I think is reasonable.

Thus, I support some form of remedial action with the ultimate goal being to minimize the hurt on the American people. Let me assure you, the current drivel passed by the Senate in no way achieves that objective.

I'm on board with Chalmers Johnson and Howard Zinn and many of you here. What is being pushed around on Capital (love that spelling) Hill will put the country deeper in debt and WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Without even engaging the right versus wrong arguments, and there are many, the current bailout should be voted down for purely practical reasons; it just will not work.

Kucinich quite rightly pointed out that what we have is a debt crisis, not a credit crisis. To drown the nation in debt (in a bathtub) and not solve the underlying economic problems is a huge disservice to the American people.

In typical reactive fashion, all proposed legislation focuses far too narrowly on possible solutions. Several key things should have been included in the "bailout" bill or at least should have been aggressively fought for at a time where the attention of the American people has been heightened.

The following actions are mandated by the country's economic crisis:
1. cut $500 to $600 billion from the military budget
2. close 95% of foreign US military bases
3. address the hemorrhaging of American jobs to cheaper labor markets and
4. institute single-payer health care to reduce health care costs.
5. end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan immediately.

Neither of the two parties will do any of this, of course. Which brings me to the real problem.

Under the guise of "we have to act very quickly", debate on alternative bailout plans has been totally stifled. Defazio, Kaptur, Donna Edwards and others have a much better proposal that will never be voted on.

Pelosi, not minutes ago, gave a press conference in which she was asked whether the Senate might re-vote if the House made changes to the bill. She said she was told that it could take months if the Senate had to consider changes. Is that credible to you? Is it? It would take months? The Senate sure didn't take too long to add all kinds of Republican pork to the bill to bribe a few Republican Congressmen to change their votes. That only took about one day.

And where are the voices of the third party candidates? Is the argument that they don't command a sufficient proportion of the vote to be heard? Wouldn't common sense choose to hear from the best and the brightest, regardless of political clout or political affiliation, on an issue of such great magnitude? No, I guess not.

In the end, the more damaging crisis we face is not a fiscal crisis at all; what's failing us, my farseeing friends, is our democracy itself.

Vast fortunes created and stored in an electrified world...then the power went out...poof! All gone...

Those of us who have strenuously worked against the bailout (theft) have been challenged by the Senate. If a mule can kick it needs to kick now.

"And this role of big government, supporting the interests of the business classes, continued all through the nation's history." So true. And as you've so eloquently said in the past...

"When economic interest is seen behind the political clauses of the Constitution, then the document becomes not simply the work of wise men trying to establish a decent and orderly society, but the work of certain groups trying to maintain their privileges, while giving just enough rights and liberties to enough of the people to ensure popular support."

http://theformofmoney.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/2/17/3530057.html

And you're right, "The alternative is simple and powerful"; however, the suggested New Deal scenario is a continuation of the same repeating flawed cycle. Removing the flaw is the better alternative.

http://theformofmoney.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2005/9/18/1236759.html

To the folks who believe in true market economics: "put your money where your mouth is and allow the market to weather this market-driven crisis..." But as many have echoed, the money crowd decry "big government" when they are cashing in nicely, but seem to have no trouble mobilizing big government (the entire congress) when they face deep trouble. If it must collapse, and surely it must crumble, let there be renewal and rebirth.

Yay, this was my idea ! Create a jobs program to put people to work, a la WPA !! I'm so happy to hear someone of importance stating it. I hope the bailout fails in the House.

The only thing that trickles down is urine and the Big Boys are urinating on our heads right now . . . and laughing hysterically about the Big One they are about to pull off . . . yet again. Their contempt for us and their congressional whores knows no bounds. Each successive bailot brings us closer to complete ruin. What Howard Zinn is talking about can only come to pass in a nation with at least a handful of brain cells still firing and a grasp on reality and some genuine sense of kindness. This is not that place. The United States has become a perverted kind of Las Vegas where the only things that exist are casinos, pawn shops and 99 cent stores.

Ursa
NO BAIL OUT!!
Congratulations to Ron Wyden, Feingold, ect for voting it down! Those are the real politicians in Washington.
It’s insulting that Washington has taken the public for granted. They don’t give a rip about the average Joe and Jill. They have their Health insurance, their pension plan. The tax payer assist them with their travel expenses and dining. They get so many perks that they have completely lost touch. They see the average citizen as peasants.! Here on this Earth to serve. The bailout is a joke There are no provisions for the working class. The money will be spent in a month’s time and then they will urgently want to gamble your social security. Why are Paulson and Bernake still in office? Let’s have some Accountability .

Check this out! Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008

http://banking.senate.gov/public/_files/latestversionAYO08C32_xml.pdf

This is the Bailout Plan! All 451 pages of it, loaded with Pork Barrel, and crap that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BAILOUT!....

Initially 3 pages, then 7,,,,,

As NOW we can ascertain, that just as with the USA Patriot Act etc. which we know was written PRIOR TO 9/11.... this is the same.

Coffeelover,,,,,,,, PS: Pass it along....

I keep listening to right-wing commentators talk about their "anger" at the unfairness of helping those who are having trouble paying their mortgages. It's unfair to those who have been paying their mortgages, they say. I guess it's also unfair to send a public ambulance to help someone who fell with a heart attack crossing the street. It's unfair to those who didn't fall. What a nasty brutish group they are who have been dominating our country. I am ashamed.

...and from Democracy to Chaos.
- Giovanni Battista Vico (1668-1744)

America's institutions are maimed and murdered - the only way to rebirth is through death.

LOVING YOU HOWARD,
I personally WANT the biggest crash possible, level the field. and if there are mega rich scumbags left standing ? NICE!

We are going to NEED them to pay for lunch, and some beautiful new parks and architecture.

Even if we go openly TOTALITARIAN, We will sell it all corny and jingo.

Let the FLIBBERDYGIBBET LEAD US TO GLORY.

We are every one wee little flibberty floo! AMerica is about lies and nosense! The whole world knows it.

remember tristan tzara, the dadaist prophet, reason has failed, abandon reason, oops we did already!

ABANDON OUR CHILDREN! (oh, we did that too!)

Abandon OURSELVES! Lets be free lovi