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To Joe Biden: Time for Confession
Dear Senator Biden,
I don't have to remind you of the importance of this Thursday's debate from a political perspective. But as you prepare, I invite you to spare a few minutes to look at the opportunity from a moral and religious perspective. You may wish to examine your conscience regarding how you have acted on key foreign policy issues and reflect on John 8:32: "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
The holy days of religious traditions serve a very useful purpose, if we but take the time to pause and ponder. I write you on Rosh Hashanah, the first of ten days focusing on repentance.
In Judaism's oral tradition Rosh Hashanah is the day when people are held to account. The wicked are "blotted out of the book of the living," while the righteous are inscribed in the book of life. Those in the middle are given ten days to repent, until the holiday of Yom Kippur-the solemn Day of Atonement.
If that has a familiar ring to it, Joe, we heard it in as many words at Mass last Sunday in the first reading, from Ezekiel 18: "If one turns from wickedness and does what is right and just, that one will live."
Same Tradition
At Rosh Hashanah the ram's horn trumpet blows to waken us from our slumber and alert us to the coming judgment. Rabbi Michael Lerner has been a ram's horn for me. On Sept. 28, he sent a note addressing forgiveness and repentance.
He encourages us to find a private place to say aloud how we've hurt others, and then to go to them and ask forgiveness. "Do not mitigate or 'explain'-just acknowledge and sincerely ask for forgiveness," says Rabbi Lerner. He suggests we ask for "guidance and strength to rectify those hurts-and to develop the sensitivity to not continue acting in a hurtful way."
Again, a familiar ring. Think, Joe, about the instruction we both received as Irish "cradle Catholics." Surely you will remember the emphasis on examining one's conscience, confessing, and pledging to "sin no more." The phrase comes back, clear as a bell; we were to "confess our sins, do penance, and amend our life, Amen." Remember?
And remember how clean we felt at the end of that therapeutic process? I was reminded of that by Monday's gospel reading from John 1, in which Jesus says of Nathaniel: "Here is a true child of Israel; there is no duplicity in him." Just think of how Nathaniel must have felt.
Joe, you can feel that clean; but one cannot short-cut the process. You must first come clean on your role in greasing the skids for President George W. Bush's war of aggression on Iraq. I use "war of aggression" advisedly, for that is the term used by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson to denote "the supreme international crime, differing from other war crimes only in that it contains the accumulated evil of the whole."
There is no getting around that-despite the reluctance of church, state, and the Fawning Corporate Media (FCM) to acknowledge it. I imagine that you, as a lawyer, have moments of acute shame over our country's flouting of international law and the U.N. Charter, duly ratified by the Senate and thus the law of the land.
And there is no getting away from the important role you played in roping Congress into facilitating that war. Were the war not to have killed, injured, displaced hundreds of thousands, your lame circumlocutions regarding your own culpability would be laughable-on a par with, say, some of the recent comments of your rival for vice president. But they are in no way funny.
Fulsome Prose
For my own penance, I made myself read again through your marathon, "in-depth" interview with the late Tim Russert on Apr. 29, 2007. Your comments are notable for two things: (1) periodic sentences that can be diagrammed only by a German philologist with the patience of Job in waiting for verbs and an empty quiver for dangling participles; and (2) lies.
It is not hard to spot the lies half-hidden in the underbrush of euphemism and circumlocution. I do not refer to relatively harmless ones like your firm denial of any interest in running for vice president. I'm talking about the real whoppers-the ones we used to call mortal sins. Despite the goings-on in Washington in recent years, Joe, I don't believe anyone has actually passed legislation repealing the commandment against false witness. It's time you come clean.
Confess What?
--For some reason, you were calling for an invasion of Iraq and making unsupported claims about its "weapons of mass destruction" even before President George W. Bush came into office. Later, on Aug. 4, 2002, after it had become clear to many of us that Bush was intent on attacking Iraq, you declared that the U.S. was probably going to war. That was three weeks before Vice President Dick Cheney voiced his spurious "intelligence" and set the terms of reference for the war. And it was a month before the administration launched its marketing campaign for the new "product."
--You became the administration's most important congressional backer of Bush's preemptive-with-nothing-to-
--Former U.N. weapons inspector and ex-U.S. Marine Major Scott Ritter was correct in describing the hearings you chaired during the summer and fall of 2002, from which you were careful to exclude Ritter and other expert witnesses, as a "sham...to provide political cover for a massive military attack on Iraq." What the country needed was an appropriately skeptical Sen. William Fulbright who listened to dissenters after he got burned on Vietnam. Instead, you took unusual pains to ensure that those dissenting on Iraq would not get a fair hearing. --Ritter: "While we were never able to provide 100 percent certainty regarding the disposition of Iraq's proscribed weaponry, we did ascertain a 90-95 percent level of verified disarmament...It is clear that Sen. Biden and his colleagues have no interest in such facts." Indeed, just before the Senate voted to give Bush authorization to attack Iraq, you plagiarized Cheney in assuring your Senate colleagues that Iraq "possesses chemical and biological weapons and is seeking nuclear weapons." --And why, tell us, Joe, why did you join Sen. John McCain and others in voting against the amendment offered by Sen. Carl Levin that would have forced the president to obtain U.N. Security Council approval before launching war on Iraq? 'Explaining' the Unexplainable --Then, in 2007, when your catastrophic misjudgments were obvious and hundreds of thousands were dead and maimed, you borrowed administration rhetoric to "explain" to Russert how "everyone in the world thought Saddam had them [WMD]." That was rank hyperbole. When you added, "The weapons inspectors said he had them," that was a lie. --Please, no more torturous explanations of the kind you gave Russert; I mean like this one: "It [the resolution] allowed the president to go to war. It did not authorize him to go to it." Come on, Joe. The resolution says: "The president is authorized to use the armed forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate." Sen. Robert Byrd who, unlike you and other Senate Democrats, had no presidential ambitions, rightly observed at the time that those who "voted for a use-of-force resolution handed a 'blank check' to the president." --When the war/occupation brought bloody chaos, you expressed regret only that the Bush people weren't doing it right. For example, in 2004 you told Charlie Rose and in 2007 Russert: "If I'd known that they were going to be so incompetent in using it, I would have never, ever given them the authority." So you approve of preemptive war as long as no one botches the job? --More recently, Joe, you have said of your vote to authorize the war: "It was a mistake. I regret my vote." Pardon the comparison, but you sound like the disgraced Colin Powell, who has expressed regret only for the "blot" on his record. But wait, Joe: "Imagine All the People." Im-Palin Old Joe If you do not find my suggestion for confession and repentance morally compelling, Joe, then think of it this way. Your debate partner on Thursday evening will be loaded for bear. I assume you wish to avoid being field dressed. Ain't no way out of your dilemma but by making a clean breast of it, Joe. She is going to wave her finger at you and quote your fulsome remarks at length-no stranger she to dangling participles. She will do a John Kerry on you, which worked so well four years ago. You were for the war before you were against it, she will wink. And she will have a field day, if not a field dressing. I don't know what your motives were in giving the president permission to attack Iraq-whether it was the neoconservative-cum-Israel- But you are a "grave and growing" danger (so to speak) to the campaign of Sen. Obama; that is, unless you mount a (God forgive me) "preemptive attack." And you have only two days-not ten-in which to prepare. It will not wait for Yom Kippur. Here's What You Do... ...and it makes sense from a practical, as well as a moral, point of view. Forget the natural inclination to try to defend the indefensible on your cheerleading for the war. To claim you were fooled by the administration, after almost 30 years in the Senate is not going to be any more persuasive or exculpatory than to cite what other pressures you may have yielded to. Here's an idea that might not have occurred to you, since it involves a practice that has been out of vogue for so long. Shock everyone by telling the truth! (But briefly, please.) Some suggested text: Gov. Palin, I feel terrible about the role I played in helping President Bush launch this godforsaken war. I confess; it was a terrible decision. I apologize to you and to other mothers whose children have been sent to Iraq, to the hundreds of thousands who have died and been injured, to all Americans and all Iraqis. And I ask for forgiveness. I have learned a painful but powerful lesson; you can count on me never letting that kind of thing happen again. Heed Rabbi Lerner's caution: "Do not mitigate or 'explain'-just acknowledge and sincerely ask for forgiveness." Now, Joe, to be quite honest, I cannot guarantee a good result from this kind of approach, since I have no empirical evidence. That is, although I've been in Washington 45 years, I've not seen unvarnished honesty ever risked in quite this way. But I am guessing it could be quite disarming, and could send your debate partner scurrying for less effective talking points. You will be debating a "fundamentalist," but that is actually a misnomer. The fundamentals of Judeo-Christian morality have to do with truth telling, justice, and concern for the unprivileged. Confessing, forgiving, and repenting are also fundamentals. Don't be ashamed of them, Joe. Embrace them. My guess is that if you do, you will leave your debate partner shocked-if not speechless. In the process, you will have succeeded in drawing a stark contrast between the "lies to nowhere" that she continues to tell on the one hand, and your (hopefully) terse, disarming honesty, on the other. You will be free to go ahead and demonstrate that in John McCain's choice of Sarah Palin, no presidential candidate in the history of this country has made a more irresponsible selection for his running mate. And best of all, you will be able to sit back and smile next Sunday as you listen to the second Scripture reading (from Philippians 4): Whatever is true, honorable, and just...think about these and keep on doing them...Then the God who gives peace will be with you. Let Nathaniel be your model: no duplicity. Sincerely, Ray McGovern
- Posted in


46 Comments so far
Show AllAsking a politician to be honest is like asking a shit-beetle to stop rolling shit..
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keat
[mujeriego]: "Asking a politician to be honest is like asking a shit-beetle to stop rolling shit.."
Dennis Kucinich - honest, visionary, compassionate, and a very evolved human being, and he says it where it is.
He has given two "speeches" in the House against the BAIL-OUT legislation in the works.
The questions he asks, the logic he uses based on factual truths, and his delivery -- how he says it with unquestionable sincerity had several newspapers and magazines asking "Where did he come from? Gee, maybe we overlooked him when we shouldn't have." Of course these were the same newspapers and magazine "journalists" who had marginalized him in the first place because of his FOR-THE-PEOPLE/CURB-THE- CORPORATIONS stance, and their own mega-corporate connections; their own publications being controlled by corporate bosses.
Dennis is consistent in courage, intelligence and heart and has been from the time he entered politics and became Mayor of Cleveland and put his mayoralty on the line to take a position against the banks and city bigwigs re changing inexpensive, municipal-run electric power for Clevelandites to a Corporate takeover sellout. He lost the next election.
He has been made fun of for his size and even his hair. Yet I hoped that Obama would have considered him. Of course not.
I was so taken with Obama initially, but disgusted in his "debate" with McCain. He echoed McCain with the same tired, hypocritical, untruthful positions on IRAN being the most dangerous country right now, bully-bear Russia's unprovoked attack on Georgia, and going after Osama Bin Ladin in Afghanistan to kill him [he's dead for God's sake - India's Bhutto was assassinated shortly after she said that and obviously did not live to elaborate nor win the election there]. And Obama certainly you are too intelligent to buy the b.s. conclusions about 9-11 in the totally flawed Commission report. So sadly, it seems to me, you've sold your soul already too.
Nader or McKinney are my preferences, but I will vote for Obama as the lesser of the Faustian evils because a McCain-Palin win, in my opinion, will destroy the world in a flaming Armageddon because both of these people are unbalanced, to put it kindly. And time is running out. However, I likely will feel tarnished myself even as I hang on to a little hope.
As an aside, read Iranian President Ahmadinejad's speech to the UN a week or so ago.
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20872.htm
Frankly, I am inclined to trust him more than most politicians here, even though I may disagree on some of his "religious" beliefs and conclusions. The U.S. has done a number on Iran since the Eisenhower years: getting rid of Mossedegh the elected president of a new democratic government and restoring THE SHAH [a cruel man indeed] to the throne and our C.I.A. helping creating the equivalent SAVAK secret police, etcetera. It was all about oil and the control of the Persian Gulf, of course, and the military-industrial complex that IKE warned about ended up with a leg-up from him, who on most things was a very, very decent man.
The soul of America is dark indeed, and the hypocrisy is beyond the pale, and you're right, the truth is not in us about 90 - 99 per cent of the time, and part of that is our sheer ignorance and incuriousness from deliberate brainwashing via television and now from the vast majority of major written publications.
****** continued ***
****continued****
Yesterday on NPR was a piece on the 1 1/2 MILLIION Iraqi widows [and some divorcees] from the first Gulf War through the sanctions through the current invasion and occupation by US/U.S. Penniless and rejected by or without family and shunted into a trailer camp of small metal cubicles, constructed with reconstruction monies. NOT. Most of the money disappeared. So they live, many with their surviving children, helping each other as best they can, but there is NO water, NO electricity ... and the metal trailers are like ovens in the blazing-hot, desert sun. Some of the women prostitute themselves to have money for food; others get a little help money-wise from families outside of the camp. But they and their children are more the living dead and outcasts than anything else.
I listened to the breaking voice of a mother trying to croon a lullaby to her thirsty little boy who would not be comforted. And the deep, primitive howl came out of my own belly and throat ... as usual, even though I am always surprised by my own grief and tears and howlings.
Do we understand at all what we have wrought? Do the politicians ever give a thought as they eat their elaborate lunches on fine china and go home to their expensive, well-appointed homes or apartments to sleep comfortably in their climate-controlled bedrooms?
1 1/2 MILLION women and their children? Unimaginable suffering because of us.
How 'bout that Joe Biden? ... You, the devoted father to your sons, after your wife and little girl were so tragically killed thirty some-odd years ago? How important it was for you to be there for them and tuck them safely in bed at night.
How 'bout that John McCain? The wounds these women have suffered are certainly equivalent to your wounds when you were a P.O.W. during Vietnam after you and your squadron dropped bombs on cities and towns killing and wounding millions. When your plane went down and you landed in the city you had bombed, how amazing these people did not hack you to pieces on the spot. But they didn't, and eventually you got home.
How 'bout that Barack Obama? How proud you are of your own little girls ... "Love you, Daddy," they said on a Megatron screen at the Democratic Convention. "Love you. Go to bed now." How touching.
How 'bout that Sarah Palin? as your 17-year-old daughter carries new life in her womb, and your new baby gets cuddled and loved for the public at a convention? Do you ever think about those other mothers? Chances are you don't even know about them. Obviously, your incurious mind and your limited heartfulness cannot stretch or see that far.
Who is the real enemy here? Ray McGovern obviously knows now from his own particular religious perspective and faith. But ALL the religions are based on it. Look within ... deeply. The answer is there for each one of us. It has always been there. It's just so easy to forget when material ambitions tantalize our egos. The story is as old as time, and the war within each one of us has always been the real one.
peace ... cm
.Dung beetle is so much more eloquent, dontcha think?
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
You wanted an attack dog but you got a demagogue.
Ray McGovern, as usual, another article that is on the button. I hope Joe Bidden reads it! In case he does, I have a few words to add as well.
Of great concern to me is the possible return to the cold war with Russia and Joe Bidden is attributing to it with his false defense of the U.S. role in Georgia and portraying himself as a great anti-communist.
That's old hat Joe, and even Rome is waking up to being duped into this mode of thinking, only to wind up with a "winning" U.S. capitalistic culture that is no less oppressive, imperialistic, and Godless as Russian communism.
Joe Biden, get you head out of the sand. The truth will set you free.
The return to the Cold War is being fostered by Senator John McCain to advance his position to win the U.S. Presidential election. This strategy of McCain is poking the Russian Bear in the nose. Barack Obama is now being forced to prove he is tougher than McCain in defending a phony democracy in Georgia and a U.S. educated president (probably on full scholarship and expenses with the CIA), who is a stooge for American imperialism to control more oil from the Caspian Sea.
What are you doing Joe, brainwashing Obama?
Ray, what great advice to someone, as you amply point out, who definately needs to take it. Now do us all one more favor Ray and practice what you are preaching to others so we might regard you as something other than a hypocrite or scribbler of agit-prop nonsense.
Confess what?
Dude, you worked for the CIA, one of the most documented criminal enterprises on the face of this earth. In your own little way you contributed to maintaining an organization that:
Managed the violent overthrow of democratically elected regimes in Iran, Guatamala, Chili, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, the Congo, and on and on it goes.
Your employer, whose efforts your main working life was dedicated to supporting, funded the Mujahadin and Bin Laden in Afghanistan (pretty slick suckering the Rooskies into that tar-baby but they are having the last laugh aren't they Ray?), developed the torture techniques so appallingly applied at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo (MK Ultra snd the infamous Kubark manual) and subsequently taught them to totalitarian regimes deemed friendly to the US around the world.
Your employer mid-wifed international drug traffic for everything from the Iran-Contra shenanigans of Ollie North to the massive introduction of crack cocaine into the US inner cities--hey, wherever you can do to make a buck, eh Ray?
Here's What You Do...
...and it makes sense from a practical, as well as a moral, point of view. Forget the natural inclination to try to defend the indefensible on your crusade of "Veteran Intelliogence Professionals for Sanity" cheerleading and just recap these and other activities of the criminal enterprise to which you devoted most of your adult working life.
No "I never knew of these things", or "I was just following orders", because we all know that "good Germans" were nothing more than enabling accomplices to one of the greatest and most monsterous regimes of the 20th. century, don't we Ray?
Admit that even if you didn't directly work on any of the projects noted above you surely knew (or should have known) of their existence and that by your continued association with the CIA you affirmed your solidarity with their criminal activities.
As you so correctly point out Ray,
"the fundamentals of Judeo-Christian morality have to do with truth telling, justice, and concern for the unprivileged. Confessing, forgiving, and repenting are also fundamentals. Don't be ashamed of them, Ray." Embrace them. My guess is that if you do, your future pontifications will have much greater credibility than they currently do.
How about that Ray, for your next article in Common Dreams, will you dare to practice what you have preached to Joe Biden?
Poet
Damn, Poet ... touchee. A bit brutal, but correct. We all need to watch getting too self-righteous and judgmental. There's a critical difference between discerning and judging. We don't need to lacerate each other - but holding up a mirror is the best way to keep us all honest. Ray is way out there on a self-righteous perch with this piece, even if his intentions are honorable and there's more than a pinch of truth in what he says. Good call by Poet.
We all need to get past our egos and merge with The Truth.
Upwards.
Following Poet's (and katfish's) logic, we are ALL culpable. You chose to stay in the U.S., and your taxes were what provided the funds to accomplish all the misdeeds, misadventures, and criminal activities. So, my question is, where does one draw the line? In the '80s I worked for a seminal computerized publishing systems vendor. It was hard to name a magazine or newspaper (or government agency) that did not use an Atex system, and while I refused to provide technical support to South Africa's Cape Times or the CIA's in-house publishing operation, my work ultimately supported such operations. As a union Verizon technician, am I ultimately complicit in the company's wiretapping operations?
It seems to me that Ray is expurgating and expiating whatever sins he feels he may have committed; I don't know of any personally, and for all I know, his tenure at the agency may have prevented much more abuse than he ever, however indirectly through however many degrees of separation, may have caused or contributed.
Besides, I do believe Ray had left the agency BEFORE Abu Ghraib; he retired in 2003.
"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
Kgarry asks--
So my question is where does one draw the line?
************
One might draw the line at not seeking to put down others for sins no worse than your own. One might remember that whenever one points the finger there are three other fingers pointing back at the accuser. One might model the conduct demanded of others.
Would Ray McGovern be part of a truth and reconcilliation commission seeking to once and for all deal with the 50 plus year history of CIA gangsterism throughout most of the world?
If so, then let that be a future article for CD. If not, then why criticize Joe Biden when he is no more culpable than the one pointing the finger?
Poet
PS I both admire and respect your principled conduct concerning Apartheid South Africa and the CIA.
Poet
You're barking up the wrong tree on this one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_McGovern
Intelligence Activism
McGovern has been an outspoken commentator on intelligence-related issues since the late 1990s.[2] He was heavily critical of the government's handling of the Wen Ho Lee case in 2000.[3] In 2002 he was publicly critical of President George W. Bush's use of government intelligence in the lead-up to the war in Iraq.[4]
In 2003, together with other former CIA employees, McGovern founded the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity or VIPS. The organization is dedicated to analyzing and criticizing the use of intelligence, specifically relating to the War in Iraq. In January 2006, McGovern began speaking out on behalf of the anti-war group Not in Our Name. According to the group's press release, McGovern served symbolic "war crimes indictments" on the Bush White House from a "people's tribunal."
Rumsfeld
In May 2006, McGovern attended a speech by then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and accused him of lying about Iraq prewar intelligence during the question-and-answer session. McGovern challenged Rumsfeld on several statements, in which Rumsfeld was on the record for saying. McGovern asked him;
"Why did you lie to get us into a war, which was not necessary and has caused these kinds of casualties?"
"You said you knew where they [weapons of mass destruction] were.
Rumsfeld: "I did not...I said I knew where suspect sites were."
McGovern "You said you knew where they were: 'Near Tikrit, near Baghdad, and East, West, South and North somewhat'" (Rumsfeld denied using this language, despite having stated precisely this on March 30, 2003 on ABC's This Week[5]). Rumsfeld had added in the original statement in reference to one particular facility, "we saw from the air that there were dozens of trucks that went into that facility after the existence of it became public in the press and they moved things out. They dispersed them and took them away. So there may be nothing left. I don't know that. But it's way too soon to know."[6]
"Your allegation that 'there was bullet proof evidence' of ties between Al Qaeda and Iraq (Rumsfeld stated this on September 27, 2002 to the Chamber of Commerce in Atlanta, Georgia).[7] Was that a lie or were you misled?"
Rumsfeld "Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period...that is a fact."
McGovern: "Zarqawi...he was in the North of Iraq in a place where Saddam Hussein had no rule. That's where he was."
Rumsfeld "He was also in Baghdad."
McGovern "Yeah, when he needed to go to the hospital...come on, these people [the surrounding press] aren't idiots."[8]
Torture
With 15 other VIPS, McGovern participated in a protest of torture and returned his Intelligence Commendation Award to Congressman Pete Hoekstra, Chair of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. He said that he did "not wish to be associated, however remotely, with an agency engaged in torture... this is an order of magnitude different from my experiences in the past — there has been torture before, but never before has it been ordered and openly justified."
He has said that the CIA has bowed to pressure to alter its reports to suit the White House, and wants the agency to maintain accountability.[9]
Ctrl-z--
So Ray wants a kinder and gentler mafia. Ray is a compassionate subversive. Ray is offended that his company has lost influence among Washington circles of both political persuasions and is only too happy to air all their dirty laundry.
The CIA and the Pentagon cowboy cabal differ only in their methods not their purposes. All Ray is talking about is the aesthetics of how an enterprise destroys and then dominates those countries needed to advance their imperialist goals. Bush and company (and Obama too--just you watch!)would just as soon blow out the brains of a country whose resources, geographic location, or people they covet with guns and bombs.
Ray and his CIA buddies would rather introduce some figurative cancer, AIDS, or Ebola virus into a country's body politic and stand around with their designated stooge waiting in the wings as the country falls apart.
Neither Hamid Kharzi nor Nuri Al MAliki were the CIA's choice to be the designated puppets over Afghanistan and Iraq respectively and THAT is what most of this pissing and moaning by Ray McGovern is all about. Both the CIA and Neocon fascists in the military seek to dominate the earth in the name of "We the People" instead of protecting this country from possible attack which is what they are suppossed to be about.
Poet
Poet
I think you're wrong on this. Ray McGovern has acted with courage and integrity. Did you read the link? He's been doing a hell of a lot of good. Yes, the CIA, operating under the instructions of numerous Presidents, has caused a lot of harm. No question about it. But you can't hold one man responsible for it.
You are attributing a lot of things to McGovern that there is no reason to assume are true.
If you read the link, and search for some of his other writings, I think your opinion of him will change.
I don't hold Ray McGovern responsible for all the evil of the CIA. I can respect anyone who seeks to turn over a new leaf. However, the same could be said for the various votes and legislative activities which Ray has taken the opportunity to skewer Biden for having done.
I will take your advice and read the link to wikipedia you mentioned. May I suggest that you consider reading "All The Shah's Men" by Stephen Kinzer, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism", by Naomi Klein, and Confessions of An
Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins to get some insight into the corrupt nature of the CIA and the entire American intel and diplomatic establishment. Thanks for the exchange.
Poet
Thanks for the list. I've heard multiple interviews with the authors of 'Shock Doctrine' and 'Hit Man' but haven't read them. I haven't heard of 'All the Shah's Men'. I'll try to look it up.
What a crock.
Mr. McGovern has been for at least several years devoted his writings to trying to correct some past mistakes and avoid new ones. I don't see any reason at all for this post.
Why is it people on the left love to attack their allies? If you've been reading Mr. McGovern's writings for the last five years, there's no doubt where he stands.
But, apparently, since he hasn't been absolutely perfect for his entire life, there are people who have to attack him. This piece by Poet is a wonderful example of why the left is so freaking disfunctional and why we can't build any decent alliances or movements. There are way too many people on the left who spend all their time attacking the people who should be their allies.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
Samson--
The point of my earlier post (which you have obviously not gotten) was not that McGovern isn't perfect, but that he was applying a standard to Biden's past conduct he would not apply to his own. I am no fan of either Biden or Obama. But to read Ray McGovern's holier than thou advice to Biden and to know that he was at the very highest echelons of such a corrupt organization is disgusting for its hypocrisy.
The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, they just may be engaging in some internicene office politics among other branches of government. John Dean, Daniel Ellsberg, and Ann Wright put their careers on the line and admitted their complicity in the problems they criticized--not Ray McGovern. Find me anywhere that Ray McGovern has expressed regret for being part of the CIA and acknowledged its corrupt and criminal nature. Ray is too busy telling others what to do to take his own good advice.
Poet
Biden is a weak man. He uses military might as an attempt to hide the fact. His choice as VP, cemented my opposition to the fraud Obama.
Screw right-wing war-mongering Republican wannabes disguised as Democrats.
ding!
There won't be a VP debate tomorrow night, if at all; and Biden's opponent will not be Sarah Palin. Tomorrow morning she will announce her decision to stay at home and tend to her special-needs baby and her pregnant child. The October surprise will be Condi Rice.
"The October surprise will be Condi Rice."
LOL ! Still, I don't think Condi will resonate well at this point. Palin should have been replaced in mid-September already if that were to happen. Most black voters wouldn't pick Condi over Obama no matter what. In fact, if they had to choose between Hillary and Condi, they'd pick Hillary big time. They're not dumb voters. They know Condi is nothing more than a female Clarence Thomas.
This will be the prediction of the year if it comes true. I think Palin will be dim yet honest and win. People can forgive dim but they smell a phony in an instant. Any BS from Biden and he's toast.
Correct. There's an encouraging volume of intelligent input arising in these CD discussions lately.
Wow. Nice. I doubt your scenario (without dismissing it, mind you), but truly appreciate creative brainwork.
I don't doubt that Palin is Dan Quayle with tits, even without wallowing in the vicious and relentless Palin-bashing that's erupted from supporters of the Democratic ticket.
But the irksome side-effect of the bashing is the implication that Biden is a superior veep candidate-- whereas, he's actually merely a slightly more presentable hack.
Respectfully disagree. Biden is a lot of things: arrogant, prone to blowing holes in his own feet, verbose in the extreme, susceptible to big misjudgements (towit, Iraq invasion, PATRIOT Act, bankruptcy legislation, etc.), but if you've seen him operate in a hearing, you'll have also noticed he is intelligent, sharp-witted, and articulate as well as quite knowledgeable. There are many lesser servants of the people in Congress, and the least of them compares favorably with Palin on substance. Without apologizing for Joe's ample warts, there is simply no comparison of league between Biden and Palin.
An intelligent thief can steal more, and get away with it.
Misjudgement? Tell it to the marines.
A person who has made as many misjudgments as you have mentioned cannot be intelligent. He’s a crook.
Very timely article Mr. McGovern. Will the Senator from MasterCard come clean
and achieve atonement? Only if he has a conciense. And that is a very big IF.
My bet is that he will blow it but I hope I am wrong. 8 years of nothing but hope and nothing else has left me and a lot of my fellow Americans, well, almost hopeless.
Two words: Sarah Palin. How would you like her to be your president? If that doesn't sound very appealing to you, better get behind Joe. He may not be a saint. But are you? I'm not.
I think a Palin presidency would be very entertaining. We'd have Conan the Barbarian running California and your mom's coffee klatch buddy presiding over a bloody crusade against global Islamofascism - sort of a cross between the apocalypse and a stupid funny book. Seriously, we need to lighten up. Remember that Durer print of Michael the Archangel slaying the umpty-headed dragon in the sky while in the village below smoke curls from chimneys and children play? Todays theomachia is also none of our business. The director is off stage. The writers are olympian goofballs: Frank Miller and Kurt Vonnegut. It's supposed to be fun.
Great article.
dmia,
What's your point? You're scared of Palin/McCain so now you're telling everyone to shut up. It's a like telling people not to criticize Bush because he could get impeached and then we'd have Cheney.
"He may not be a saint. But are you? I'm not."
A "Saint"?!? We are talking about one of the principle architects of the PATRIOT Act and one of the earliest and most ferocious Iraq war hawks. He doesn't have to be a "Saint", he just can't support fascism and imperialism. Is that asking too much?
Delaware is the home of corporate America. I know I can't wait to hear Corporate America's Senator (Biden) try to explain why we need a massive bailout and how he's somehow different from Palin saying that we need a massive bailout of corporate America. I'm sure it will be fascinating to hear him try to present the nearly identical position as somehow something different from what the Republicans are proposing.
Best line I heard at the Nader rally I went to is that this will be a debate between the Senator from MasterCard and the Governor of Exxon.
Thanks gawd the baseball playoff will be on. And vote Nader!
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
True! Ever wonder why your credit card bills go there and Utah? Its the lack of regulation.
Biden should seek forgiveness for the damn bankruptcy bhill that he passed for his son, Hunter, who worked for MBNA. It helped precipitate this mortgage crisis.
Cone to think of it, Biden has so much to atone for--why is he on the ballot again?
Most of the comments about Biden are silly. First, Delaware happens to be the place most corporations incorporate - but that is only because they were the most lax in their incorporation laws. This goes back long before Biden was born. Most corporations, although incorporated in Delaware do not have corporate offices in Delaware.
Many other states have since enacted the Delaware law - so, for example, South Dakota is home to CitiBank, etc.
One thing that really bugs me about this typical thread is this: to get to a position of influence in the US Govent = you have to deal with all kinds of competing interests. Aristotle called it over 2000 years ago: politics is the art of compromise. Balancing competing interests.
While a lot of the slings at Biden and others may ring true - but, nothing would ever be accomplished if we all became absolutists -
I like Biden - and I think he is a good man. Give him a break
I am not a "saint".
However, I never voted for anythig that killed about a million people, and I dont plan to start now.
Look, we're not asking for much from these bozos, for the most powerful jobs in the uS.
The duopoly is asking you--right now--"is this good enough"?
Well--is it??
Isn't this great, we're stuck with two absolute gems for VP!
An inbred woman who can't put two sentences together without sounding dazzlingly stupid and one of the most corrupt, sellout sharks the US Senate has ever seen.
Stick a fork in it, America's done.
Biden has already confessed. He is a self-confessed Zionist.
At a Boy Ray, I bet you wasn't fooled like we other 99.9% public's were fooled about WMD by Bush43 and Cheney--why should Joe Biden confess that he was fooled also.. At least Joe Biden has the good sense to know that round three with McCain most likely will leave us not up to our arm pits in oil as hoped by the present administration,but further promoting the failed economic regulatory system, a failing health care system, a overworked military--which is leaving us very shaken. we should know what is in the McCain plan--He eats up being a Hero--he can't live without it--I like unsung "Hero's" myself--they are the "Hero's"--they were just glad to do it--no fan fare, just genuine "Americans" of every race and greed. Give them a hand and give Joe a hand also, I have never met him, but what I have read is "Remarkable" for a gentleman,husband, father, and politician. I am a retired CWO, but I find it hard to accept American pre-fabricated wars. My bet is if McCain get s in the Whitehouse--Iran will be in his ego. Also, remember the separation of Church and State.
Are you taking talking points from Sarah Palin?
To speak such gibberish, I can only draw that conclusion.
...and for the record, 99.9% of the population WAS NOT FOOLED about WMD.
Perhaps you are aware of the 2 DIFFERENT sets of intelligence at the time of the Iraq War Resolution, one for Congress and a different one for the American People.
So don't heap your ignorance and apologist sing-song for Joe Biden on us.
He knows what he did, he ain't getting my vote, and why don't you actually look at things objectively instead of making excuses for yourself and who you support.
That helps no one.
Would it were true that we Americans carry forgiveness in our hearts. Perhaps when we begin to carry forgiveness in our hearts we will be able to start fresh and build a nation that works toward democracy and economic equality, the twins that can only exist entwined together for without one the other cannot exist.
I think Ray's piece would have been more powerful and functional if he would have pointed at Biden as being a Confessor for America (Bush: one time 90% approval), and not just himself, when the anticipated wagging of the finger for Biden's role in the Iraq occupation arises. As a one time CIA agent McGovern could have used the history of the CIA to build credibilty for his argument, and then stayed on the point of questioning and bringing to light the truth behind America's involvement in Iraq. So far, on the national level of discussion, I believe the closest we've come is Obama's saying W and friends took their eye off the ball, when it's evident Iraq was the ball all along. He could have bolstered his call for confession by relaying how forgiveness is the key for unlocking love, and that with this love comes the dignity, decency and true human intelligence that can find the solution to the most difficult of problems - this truth of love that can vanquish the fear gripping America and feeding the monster of fascism.
Peace be with us, for love conquers all - great discussion, thanks, I've been working on forgiveness for the last 10 years; even having experienced that sense of love, for me a difficult behavior to repeat and maintain...maybe not so much so anymore...thanks again.
myviewat62,
"I bet you wasn't fooled like we other 99.9% public's were fooled about WMD by Bush43 and Cheney-"
If you want to stick yourself in that category fine. Go ahead and call yourself an idiot. But your statistic is a lie. The country was not 99.9% idiotic and neither was the rest of the world. Perhaps you have forgotten that the Iraq war was preceded by the largest collective protest ever held.
Bring America Back !!!!
Gee, Ray==good to see 27 years at the Company has not encrusted your
ability to get religion-- and to give out the fire and damnation !!!!
And, Ray, since you are a member of VIPS, you probably know who the
occupants of Bldg 7, World Trade Center, were on 9/11/01, or perhaps
exactly why the building collapsed into it's own construction footprint
at 5:28pm, on 9/11 ????/
Could we get a confession on that, please, 7 years later ????
It is utterly sad that I will be watching the debate for entertainment value alone. I don't believe a word either of them says. It will be interesting how they "debate" issues when these two parties seem to agree on just about everything these days.
Shall we take bets? Sarah "trailer trash" Palin vs. Joe "corporate sellout" Biden.
.Biden is not much different from any of them actually. These folks live in a world with which the rest of us are unfamiliar, priviledge, sheltered from every day reality, where compromise is a way of life and damn the true path, hell they dont pay for anything, stamps, pensions, health care all free.
After a term or so in office they havent a clue as to the lives of every day Americans. How can they truly represent us? Joe Biden is not a super villain or a super hero, just a guy impressed with his own image, just like every damn one of them.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin