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Let's Use Wind to Power Cars
Legendary Texas oilman T. Boone Pickens is half right. We do need to harness this country's wind resources for a homegrown source of electricity, as he has been urging this summer in expensive television ads. And we do need to reduce the $700 billion we may soon be paying annually for imported oil.
But part two of Pickens's plan -- to move natural gas out of electricity production and use it to fuel cars instead -- just doesn't make sense.
Why not use the wind-generated electricity to power cars directly? Natural gas is still a fossil fuel that emits climate-changing gases when burned.
Plug-in cars are here, nearly ready to market. We just need to put wind in the driver's seat. Several major auto manufacturers, including GM, Ford, Toyota and Nissan, are producing plug-in hybrids. Both Toyota and GM are committed to marketing plug-in hybrids in 2010. Toyota might even try to deliver a plug-in version of its Prius gas-electric hybrid, the bestseller whose U.S. sales match those of all other hybrids combined, next year.
GM is in the game, too, with its Chevrolet Volt. This plug-in car is essentially an electric car with an auxiliary gasoline engine that generates electricity to recharge the batteries when needed. It boasts an all-electric range of 40 miles, more than adequate for most daily driving. GM reports that under typical driving conditions, the Volt averages 151 miles per gallon.
This new car technology is matched by new wind-turbine technology, setting the stage for an automotive-fuel economy powered largely by cheap wind energy. The Energy Department notes that North Dakota, Kansas and Texas alone have enough wind energy to easily satisfy national electricity needs. To actually put wind power on the road, of course, we would have to tap the wind resources in nearly all the states, plus those that are off-shore, which the department says can meet 70 percent of national electricity needs.
Texas, this country's leading oil producer for the last century, is now our leading generator of electricity from wind, having eclipsed California two years ago. With more than 5,500 megawatts of wind-generating capacity now in operation and two vast wind-farm complexes under development, the state will have more than 20,000 megawatts of wind-generating capacity (think 20 coal-fired power plants). Pickens, with his own 4,000-megawatt wind farm under development in the Texas Panhandle, is one of the largest investors.
The key to this massive development is the state government's participation. The state facilitated the construction of transmission lines that link the strong wind resources in West Texas and the Panhandle to major markets -- known as "load centers" -- in Dallas, Fort Worth and Houston.
While many residents in some places, such as Cape Cod, take a NIMBY (Not In My Backyard) view of wind farms, the opposite is true in much of the rest of the country -- including the ranch country that extends from Texas north through the Dakotas. There, it's a PIMBY (Put It in My Backyard) issue. In ranching regions, competition among communities for these wind farms, and the jobs and tax revenues that come with them, is intense. Each wind turbine on a rancher's land typically brings a royalty of $3,000 to $10,000 per year, with no investment on the landowner's part. And the ranchers can continue to graze cattle on the land.
Some 30 states now have commercial-scale wind farms. The potential -- and the desire for wind energy -- is high. That's because wind wins on almost every count. It is carbon-free, cheap, abundant and inexhaustible -- and it is ours. No one can embargo the supply, the price never changes, and wind farms can be built in 12 months.
This is why shifting to natural gas to fuel cars, as Pickens recommends, isn't the best move. In contrast to wind-generated electricity, where costs are falling, the price of natural gas is on its way up.
Beyond that, there's the infrastructure question. How do we get the natural gas to the nation's service stations? These stations also would need to install pumps for natural gas, in addition to those for gasoline.
One of the attractions of pairing wind energy and plug-in hybrid cars is that it would not require new infrastructure. Indeed, a study by Pacific Northwest National Laboratory points out that the existing grid, using its off-peak capacity to recharge cars, could provide electricity for more than 70 percent of the U.S. fleet if all cars were plug-in hybrids.
While gasoline prices are probably headed to $5 to $10 a gallon, the wind-generated-electricity equivalent of a gallon of gasoline costs less than $1.
We are now in a position to launch a crash program to convert to plug-in hybrids on a massive scale and at wartime speed. This would resuscitate Detroit, reinvigorate thousands of the country's wind-rich rural communities, dramatically cut carbon emissions and quickly reduce the vast outflow of dollars for imported oil.
The car companies themselves seem on board -- witness GM's massive advertising push for the Chevy Volt. The ad ends with the Volt, standing at the base of snow-capped mountains, clouds traveling swiftly overhead. Its launch is targeted for 2010. Perhaps by then, the wind moving the clouds will also power the sleek-looking sedan below.
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108 Comments so far
Show AllSeems to me there is a better argument to be made for using solar power to charge cars rather than wind, and a better argument for electric bikes rather than cars. But other than that, Lester Brown is on the money.
Small cars would help. I used to get more that 30 MPG in my old WV 50 years ago.
How much has Detroit improved on that? I would like an electric car with a small gas motor to help out on snowy days otherwise solar cells and an extension cord.
I keep thinking that George Bush will drive the country off a cliff and then it's all down hill from there - we can coast...
CONSERVATION
... and pedal bicycles rather than electric bikes.
WmC September 7th, 2008 11:45 am
"Seems to me there is a better argument to be made for using solar power to charge cars rather than wind, and a better argument for electric bikes rather than cars. But other than that, Lester Brown is on the money."
Solar has drawbacks also. When the sun isn't shining no electricity is being produced. So at night, the time when people would be recharging their electric vehicles solar is producing zero electricity.
Lobo Gris
And what about hemp 4 fuel? Hemp can be processed to produce fuel for both diesel and yes, even gasoline engines even if the process is a bit more complicated.
But wind or hemp? FORGET IT. As long as Mccain/Palin or Obama/Biden are in office, there'll be just more oil drilling, more coal mining regardless of the horrendous environmental damage, and more nuclear reactors being built despite the safety hazards and the fact that nuclear can easily be misused for war. Sorry.
P.S.: Pickens still supports more oil drilling and going nuclear. He's just misusing wind to cover up. Don't be a SUCKER !
Hemp makes a lot of sense for farmers if it is produced and consumed locally. It has low energy inputs and the oil resin from the plant can be converted into bio-diesel and therefore has a good energy return on energy invested.
It makes sense when you own a tremendous amount of land that has natural gas resources... Like Pickens does!
truthbetold September 7th, 2008 12:20 pm
"It makes sense when you own a tremendous amount of land that has natural gas resources... Like Pickens does!"
It should also be mentioned that natural gas is a hydrocarbon fuel which emits pollutants and is as much of a finite resource as oil is. It will run out someday. A much better solution as part of the energy mix is hydrogen which can be produced from water and the main by-product of burning it is water.
Lobo Gris
Remember, the key is decentralization. Concentrating wind energy in just a few states is centralization. Sustainability requires decentralization. Most states can generate power from wind. Decentralizing solar is also important. Each home should have it's own solar power plant. Decentralization of power also decentralizes and more evenly distributes wealth and increases sustainability.
"Each home should have it's own solar power plant."
Add a small wind generator to that and you get even more decentralization. At the moment cost are way to high for wind or solar. The cost associated with these technologies should and will come down greatly. The cost of producing these units are not nearly as great as the price they’re selling for. There's more complexity and production cost in a small motorcycle than there is in a home size wind generator or solar system. The batteries and converters are probably the most expensive parts of a solar or wind powered system.
Rickster
Have you installed a wind generator? Even a small one designed for residential use? They are as noisy as hell and will keep you awake at night. They are probably fine if you live near a freeway, or have a 1000 acres. Leave windmills for the hearing impaired or large farms in remote locations.
"They are as noisy as hell and will keep you awake at night."
modern units made today aren't that bad. There a lot smaller than they use to be and deliver more power at slower wind speeds. The ones I've been reading about mount right to the roof of your house.
Rickster
Having had experience with home generation of electricity with a wind generator, batteries &c I really don't think much of the idea. There are problems with surviving the strongest winds and with the long periods when there is not enough wind to produce any electricity.
Solar water heating is a better proposition - no need to go to electricity.
"Having had experience with home generation of electricity with a wind generator, batteries &c I really don't think much of the idea."
when was that twenty years ago.
"There are problems with surviving the strongest winds"
I know of several that has survived tornadoes.
"with the long periods when there is not enough wind to produce any electricity."
There are some parts of the country that don't have that problem. Modern units today can continue to produce even under high winds and at lower wind speeds.
Can't eliminate batteries if you want to get off the grid otherwise stay connected and sell you extra energy to the power companies.
"Solar water heating is a better proposition"
That's just part of the overall system. You should also throw in a solar air heating system and a outdoor solar oven.
Rickster
No! No! No! No! No!!!!!!!!!!
The problem with Wind is that its killing the birds, especially the raptors. The large turbines that one is now seeing sprout up everywhere. Most people are unaware of this. My ornithologist friend who works as a curator for the California Academy of Sciences complained of this the other day.
Was just in the Central Valley of California. They are no longer growing food there. Instead, corn everywhere for Ethanol. This is tragic.
The solution is to turn vast tracts of wasteland - such as the roofs of shopping malls and buildings everywhere into solar collectors with solar cells. This power can then plug in to electric cars. The buildings will be cooler and require less air conditioning. The solar cells will provide jobs, including average Joes and Janes who can do the installation work. Not require environmental impact statements and vast tracts of land, usually on ridges. Silicon manufacture isn't without its own environmental impact but then neither is windmill manufacture, all made from fiberglass which is dependant upon petroleum. Solar Cells everywhere. Let's save the Hawks and other migratory birds.
Casey Burns
Kingston WA
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php
Take from this what you will.
Where are the peer reviewed studies that say this has been debunked? Tell me. Also, be aware that such studies are often funded by interested parties. Similar to the Cigarette Company studies saying how safe and healthy it is to smoke. We know how well that science turned out!!!!!!
My friend at CAS is one of the top scientists that I know and knows the difference between facts and beliefs and if he says that something is happening, he is usually right about it.
Fact: Wind Turbines are killing birds, especially raptors. There are studies that are proving this. And more studies are needed and underway. Here is a good overview:
http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/wind/wind_policy.html
Google "Avian Mortality Wind Turbine" and you will get about 20,000 hits.
Fact: birds are important, politics aside. Get rid of the predators and all of a sudden you have all the "weed" species such as Starlings. These can have other consequences.
Fact: Another solution is required. Solar cells provide electricity and much area is wasted with rooftop asphalt shingles. Rooftop systems are in development.
Fact: few people understand science and how it works, and rely upon thinly backed belief systems, and aren't aware of this. For instance, even if they aren't a creationist they will say they "believe" in evolution, or in this example, read an article somewhere and take everything at face value. Scientists do not believe in anything, including evolution. One doesn't believe in gravity or the laws of physics. One experiences them, and records the data. Reporters and journalists are the ones who need to know this basic difference and they commonly fail at it. In the famous words of Seargent Friday "Just the Facts, Mam!"
Our society is at a huge millenial crossroad: do we devolve back into a belief-based society based on religious fanaticism (Dark Ages) or do we base our society on facts and science (The Enlightenment)? Its ironic how the Neocons want us to fight Muslim-based fanaticim and replace it with theor own Christian based fanaticism. In my mind, the fanatics are the mad ones, irregardless of who they pray to. On the other hand, there are some who accept science. Ratzinger has no issue with evbolution and is one of his better attributes. If only he would recognize the realities of population, or support scientific studies to determine when "personhood" begins in life, rather than assuming it starts with sperm and egg. I can't remember farther back than birth, personally.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is a myth (see link provided by previous poster. Actually, the plumes from any chimney in the energy-production business probably kill more birds than windmills. Aircraft kill more birds than windmills.
As another person posted that the whole thing about windmills killing birds has been debunked. My take is screw the birds, are they more important than people? If you were just being sarcastic (which I believe you were), nevermind, but if not then get a grip on reality & priorities.
As far as growing food for fuel (the corn you mentioned), I guess we just need to keep throwing this fact against the wall until it finally sticks...hemp produces 20 times more fuel per acre than corn, and farmed algae many times more than even hemp. Plus neither need as much water or fossil fuel created fertilizers.
How about removing the excise tax on Ethanol from Brazil in the meantime? And thank all of you for making these points.
Our Ethanol program is slated to help one entity, agribusiness....doesn't matter if people starve in Ethopia, they could care less.
In fact, according to Kissingers stated goal back in the 1970's, to reduce world population by 2 billion people (especially in the Middle-East for their resources ie. OIL), it is preferred to starve those in 3rd world countries...that have ANY resources America/Israel can pillage & monopolize. Ethiopia is close to the ME, isnt it?
"My take is screw the birds, are they more important than people?"
Certainly the life of a human is more important than the life of a bird. But how many birds is it acceptable to kill so that a human can drive (not live, but drive)?
Check your information source, Tommy, and be more skeptical. Isn't it possible this supposedly Audobon Society info comes from trolls in the oil industry protecting their interests by planting/spreading false information? Ask yourself, how fast/quick are birds compared to the rather slow moving arms of big windmills? Ask yourself this also, why do we still have cars on the road when slow PEOPLE get killed crossing them. Priorities, my friend, and the better good for the most is the appropriate paradigm.
This is Bull Shit.
I drive up the Central Valley on 99 and I5. Corn is not the major crop. You would be hard proved to determine just what is by driving. This state continues to provide 30-40% of the food in the U.S. Vegies, fruit and nuts. And the corn is not the 'pigfeed' they grow in the midwest.
And wind generators are not killing raptors. Raptors are re-locating for lack of food, fool. Over-development, domestic dogs and cats have practically eradicated most small mammals up to possum size that raptors feed on in SoCal counties. Sure there are lizards, but they don't bar-b-cue well. Raptors love to attack/consume other birds. It happened in my backyard, once late last spring.
Point of fact: There are more and more police, surveillance, Homeland Security, and black unmarked NSA helicopters than birds around here, everyday. Five years ago there might have been one every few days. Those wind generators produce prison revenue, so raptors won't go near'em. I have seen raptors trying to eat the camera eyes out of the phony palmtrees around here. That's true.
Peace.
And pass the corn, hey? Where's the butter?
Observational data is subject to error. I,too, drive 99 and 5, and 12 , 88, 49, 108 and 120 as well, and every single work day too. Corn is everywhere, fields that used to support alfalfa, strawberries and many other crops now produce two corn crops a year as it is a very profitable crop for the farmer.
As 70% of the corn grown in this nation used to go to cattle feed and now does not one can understand, in part, why that grilling steak costs so much more than it once did.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
It's more likely that we can use all the gas and poisoned hot air blown by McCain/Palin, the Repimplican party and their supporters to power our cars. Four years of McCain/Palin and none of us may be able to afford owning a car any longer. The one in six out there with no medical insurance must now make plans to use alternate transportation to get themselves to the emergency room. Try walking, as there may no longer be any public transportation (drowned in Grover Norquist's bath tub) and taxis will be prohibitively expensive. Medical science will soon recognize a new disease called "shriveled thumb". More and more patients will be appearing in doctors' offices and emergency rooms with thumbs smelling like excrement and the size of their pinkies. If you keep your thumb up your backside long enough, that's what happens.
Decentralization IS they key. Every farmer/homeholder should receive tax credits to put up their own Generating stations, be it wind, solar, heat pumps whatever and then sell this back into the grid.
The large energy companies are obviously opposed to this as they want to be the sole source of POWER.
PK
"Every farmer/homeholder should receive tax credits to put up their own Generating stations, be it wind, solar, heat pumps whatever and then sell this back into the grid."
I would add that contribution payments should be calculated at or very near the actual *current* market rate. If individuals or small businesses are allowed to compete fairly with major suppliers, the market becomes a very different animal... very much less prone to manipulation through supply extortion.
"...and then sell this back into the grid."
Well, we wish it were that simple. Most states have an energy policy that give private generators a credit on the next month's electric bill. I was grid-tied and generated an excess of energy, and all I got was a monthly credit that I could never use because I overgenerate.
>>ell, we wish it were that simple. Most states have an energy policy that give private generators a credit on the next month's electric bill. I was grid-tied and generated an excess of energy, and all I got was a monthly credit that I could never use because I overgenerate.
yeah that sounds like the system is set up to protect the big players.
You should by rights receive a cheque in the mail.
This is a glitch (either intentional or unintentional) that must be fixed. It is like paying a corn farmer with corn. Makes no sense. As Gwnorth says, you should get a check.
Joe
Aside from makingh the power companies pay for the overgeneration credit in cash.....great idea.....
How about tax credits and cash incentives to add solar to existing houses, insulation, especially foam to new construction? How about a concentration to saving energy by getting rid of some of the roadblocks in local building codes?
Are you talking about those Big Government / HOA zoning laws? I know that may be an issue in states like CA, NY, and even FL but TX? Are you sure? I thought rural TX was free of all that.
Nope, some of our little towns have out of date codes that restrain using up to date materials. i.e. foam, many of the intrepert that to mean carcinogeic's and won't let builders use them. Saying that stucco is not a masonry product, limiting the use of much more insulation on exterior walls, etc. That kind of thing.
That really sucks big time. I'll need to do some research on stucco to see what's all about. I swear, government, local or federal, can be too much of a "nanny" when we all least need it.
Tell me! Stucco is a mixture of cement and sand....sounds like masonry to mee?
Silly me. But a mixture of sand and cement? That can't be dangerous !
Try breathing sand. Then try breathing cement. Now combine those two with water and some secret sauce glues, then spray with a 500 psi air compressor attached to a 4 inch nozzle directly into your nose.
Personally, I prefer a straw/adobe mix. Add two olives and onions, ice. Shaken.
That really sucks big time. I'll need to do some research on stucco to see what's all about. I swear, government, local or federal, can be too much of a "nanny" when we all least need it.
There was a federal agency in charge of insulating the homes of the poor, it's called weatherization. Bush's wonderful administration got rid of it.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/beyond-the-barrel/2008/2/6/bush-budget-puts-weatherization-in-the-cold.html
It has been estimated that roadblocks save 8 million barrels of oil a day. Those overgeneration credits are paid to the oil companies in cash by the second of every minute. Roadblocks prevent HIV epidemics, free sex, mobile bars, television viewing by overweight dogs, night marauding by domestic cats and flea species from interbreeding.
Do your homework, boyfriend...
In California, the law mandates being tied to the 'Grid' to qualify for the temporary, chintzy 'incentives.'
Also, I have been watching solar prices in California for 20 years. The promise of falling price has been a ruse. Prices have remained fairly static at around $25k-$30k for a 2500kw system, which, after incentives, is still a whopping $17k +. Attempting to illegally install an 'off the grid' system? Castration, child abduction, wife/significant other enslavement, large fines, prison(change of sexual preference)and public ostracizing for "irresponsible involvement in anti-social, seditious, corporate civil rights violations.
As you can see, California citizens are not highly motivated to save the planet. Why suffer all the above when you can relax, drink a 'Bud' and zone out?
But then again, I read about this guy who has a perpetual motion machine that converts hemp juice into electricity, oil, solar power, and automatic skateboards.
You can only gettim' on Rodeo Dr. in Beverly Hills. Elizabeth Taylor holds the patent. Lease only, $185,000 a day. Kool, huh?
Wind, Solar, and geothermal are all good and non-polluting sources of renewable energy. As has been pointed out the key is decentralized production with government-mandated subsidies paid by power utilities for individual provider's of power like Germany now requires. The rest (rapid development of infrastructure and small scale generation facilities) will then take care of itself.
Poet
How about tax credits for those who choose not to have children? Like BIG ones. .... You know, given what an impact just one human being has on the planet.
Great comment.
And who pray tell will be around to be your doctor, grocer etc. when you are old? Or should we tax old people to the hilt because they use up resources and contribute little?
Family planning? Yes. Contempt for children and "breeders"? No.
Joe
Perhaps keeping people alive as long as we think we should, is unethical. If I cannot take care of myself, I wont be living- therefor, I wouldn't want/need to be alive any longer. So you honestly don't believe that those people who make a decision NOT to reproduce (given the HUGE impact that one human has on the Earth) don't deserve tax breaks?! ... And people who choose not to drive a car, and instead ride a bike?! They don't deserve tax credits??... I see. Just those who purchase Hummers and have 5 children. I get it.
Now that is a purified reduction of logic. With a defining precedent in law, we could establish an 'assassination law,' paying subsidies for developed skills in 'sniping' individuals whose opinions will soon be known to HLS and other CD readers. :)
I absolutely support the wholesale construction of an energy industry based solely on renewable methodologies. But I see Picken's suggestion of using natural gas as being a stop-gap measure to tide us through the next 10 years while 100% renewable energy gradually comes on-line.
Maybe y'all havn't noticed, but the demand for photo-voltaic panels has surged in the past 6 months. Prices are going through the roof (one well-known supplier quoted me $10K for a 1200 watt array, but I know where to go and bought the same stuff for $3.8K), and the waiting time for new panels is 4-5 months.
Naomi Klein's "Disaster Capitalism" at work.