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Defense Act Affirms Indefinite Detention of US Citizens
ATLANTA, Georgia - Civil liberties groups and many citizen activists are outraged over language in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2011 (NDAA) that appears to lay the legal groundwork for indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without trial.
Activists in Washington DC demand the closure of the Guantanamo Bay detention center. (Credit:Matt Daloisio/100dayscampaign.org/CC By 2.0) David Gespass, president of the National Lawyers Guild, called it an "enormous attack on the U.S. and our heritage" and a "significant step" towards fascism, in an interview with IPS.
"For a very long time the U.S. has been moving towards what I personally think of as fascist - the integration of monopoly capital with state power, that's combined with an increased repression at home and greater aggression around the world. I don't think we're there yet, but I do see that we're going in that direction," Gespass said. "I think the... act is a significant step in that direction."
"It's quite severe. If this continues, people will not be able to count on constitutional protections at all," Debra Sweet, national director of the group World Can't Wait, told IPS.
Subtitle D of the act contains several controversial provisions on indefinite detention of terrorism suspects.
The executive branch - starting with the George W. Bush administration shortly after Sept. 11, 2001 - began indefinitely detaining terrorism suspects without trial at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
When those detentions were challenged in the courts, the federal government argued that the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), passed by the U.S. Congress on Sep. 18, 2001, allowed for the detentions to occur. In 2004, the Supreme Court agreed in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld.
"I know a lot of people who voted in favour of it (AUMF) back then didn't think they voted in favor of what ended up happening, but what it said is the president is authorized (to do) whatever is necessary," Gespass said. "The language as I recall it is not at all restrictive."
The current language in the NDAA seeks to legislatively affirm that the U.S. has the right to detain people, even though the courts already ruled, at least in the case of Hamdi, a prisoner captured during armed conflict in Afghanistan, that it already has that power.
Section 1021 defines who can be detained by the military.
The definition of "covered persons" under the provision includes not only those who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2011, but also "a person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including anyone who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces."
Critics say problems with this language include the vagueness of the terms "substantial support", "belligerent act", or "directly supported".
Moreover, because the act allows for individuals suspected of support or belligerence to be held indefinitely without trial - until the end of the "war on terror", which could be never - there could be no opportunities for these individuals to challenge the vagueness of the charges against them.
Section 1021(e) says the act does not alter any rights of U.S. citizens, meaning that the Bill of Rights of the Constitution remains intact. It might be up to the courts, however, to eventually determine whether the application of these NDAA provisions to a U.S. citizen would be constitutional.
However, if they are being detained indefinitely with no lawyer, then how does anyone know they are there, to appeal to the civilian courts on their behalf?
Another section says "the requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States". It does not say military custody is not an option; merely that it is not required.
The NDAA, as negotiated between the U.S. House and Senate, passed the U.S. House 283-136 on Dec. 14. It passed the U.S. Senate, in a vote of 86 to 13, on Dec. 15, with both Democrats and Republicans among those opposing it.
The bill was presented to President Barack Obama on Dec. 21 and is currently awaiting his signature.
However, numerous members of Congress have raised concerns.
Prior to its passage, on Dec. 12, Representatives Hank Johnson, Martin Heinrich and 30 others sent a letter to the chairs and ranking members of the U.S. House and Senate's respective Armed Services Committees.
They expressed their opposition to "an expansive authorization for detention of and use of military force against broadly defined adversaries substantially exceeding the scope of such authorizations already in law."
"The expanded authority has no geographical limits, provides authority for open-ended armed conflict, and is unacceptably broad," they wrote.
The NDAA "authorizes indefinite military detention of suspected terrorists without protecting U.S. citizens' right to trial," they wrote.
"We are deeply concerned that this provision could undermine the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth amendment rights of U.S. citizens who might be subjects of detention or prosecution by the military," they wrote.
On Dec. 15, Senator Dianne Feinstein introduced the Due Process Guarantee Act of 2011 (DPGA), with 15 co-sponsors.
This legislation states, "An authorization to use military force, a declaration of war, or any similar authority shall not authorize the detention without charge or trial of a citizen or lawful permanent resident of the United States apprehended in the United States, unless an Act of Congress expressly authorizes such detention."
A companion piece was introduced in the U.S. House on Dec. 16; it has 29 co-sponsors.
Meanwhile, in Montana, activists have begun an effort to recall their entire Congressional delegation for supporting the NDAA.
99 Comments so far
Show All".....because the act allows for individuals suspected of support or belligerence to be held indefinitely without trial - until the end of the "war on terror", which could be never - there could be no opportunities for these individuals to challenge the vagueness of the charges against them."
..............The people in Montana need to wake up!
Regarding Gail's comment: The assertion that the people in Montana need to wake up may or may not be true, but it is true that the assertion, whether true or false, necessarily must be equilly applied to all the other 49 states as well. The fact that there is a movement afoot to recall the entire Congressional Delegation from the Great State of Montana implies that all the respective representatives voted for the "malignant" defense act, (NDAA). Also, it certainly demonstrates that there are some Montanans who are indeed already wide awake!
The clearest message of our history is that we've been taught to be too trusting.
Perhaps a brief period under FDR or JFK deserved that trust, but they were
brief periods.
The assassination of JFK which took not only our president but our people's
government should have woken up every American. Why didn't it?
We're now almost 50 years too late in responding to this fascism -- and
people are still insisting this is "conspiracy-free America" -- ???
Who deserves the ridicule on that one?
The primary tools of fascism are violence/assassination - TORTURE.
No dictatorship comes to power or remains in power without it.
We actually have documents which say our government will use assassination
as a means of dealing with the world.
Do we have to all be in concentration camps before we can acknowledge what's
going on?
Patriarchy -- and its underpinning =
Organized patriarchal religion -- and its economic invention =
Capitalism =
The Unholy Trinity
Yes we already are a USA fascist government. Bush/Cheney assassinated Senator Paul Wellstone and family so they could cause the deaths of up to a MIllion Iraq's in the Iraq invasion. Feinsteins admendment is meaningless, for it does not counter the indefinite detention of USA citizens if a law allows it as this law does. Jose Padilla AKA "Dirty Bomber" USA citizen was in solitary confinement in USA military prison, under indefinite detention and was turned into a blithering idiot by this treatment. I believe that eventually the Gov. brought no or extremely minor charges, why bother if you have already destroyed the human Being? "Food Not Bombs" was considered an Al Queda ally for visibly feeding USA hungry, and its leaders were beatened and tortured.Your Next!
This is why we have the second amendment in the bill of rights. It has nothing to do with a person's right to target shoot, hunt etc. It is there because Jefferson knew human nature and made sure that if a government ever became too oppressive the people the had the right and the means to rise up and overthrow it. I predict that within one year there will be a national gun registration law passed. Everyone will be given a certain amount of time to register all the guns in their possession. I predict that within one year after that the army will show up at your door and demand all your guns. If you are found to have more than you claimed you will be taken away and indefinitely detained. Remember a trial is not necessary. I predict that within one year after they confiscate all the guns is when Americans will start being spirited away in the night...indefinitely. The militia-survivalists were right all this time. Whoda thunk? The Constitution and the Bill of Rights, if they must die let it be in revolution.
I absolutely hate violence, never have owned a gun... probably never will. But, I firmly believe that 'gun control' (removing guns from civilians) in a highly weaponized military police state (such as our own) only helps insure a more vulnerable, easy-to-target population... and the ability of the soldiers/police to safely and efficiently carry out any and all forms of atrocities.
But, there will not be a revolution in the US and if there were, it would be a disaster and even more quickly usher in the supreme fascist takeover of all aspects of US society... technology (weaponry, surveillance and integration/organization) and resource control heavily favors the de-facto international military/police state.
I wish the "War on Terror" could be a time-limited, scope-limited operation. Same thing with imprisonment.
Sorry, but that would severely curtail the ability to keep people in line. We have entered HW Bush's "New World Order" and it will require new interpretations of our founding document. Of course, the Idiot Son had his own take on it - "Don't throw the Constitution in my face, it's just a goddamned piece of paper." The Bill of Rights is largely toast.
Funny, like Zeno's paradox....
The "War on Terror" amounts to The Ruling Criminal Elite declaring war on anything that threatens their profits and power. Be it Democracy, be the destruction of the very planet, or even the slaughter of millions of innocents. They are insane and armed to the teeth and have lost any sense of morality.
The top 1% feel Nemesis on their door step and will stop at nothing to sacrifice us all for their gain and protection.
They've lost their souls while we have just begun to find ours...
Now is the time!
The fascist empire is fortifying itself against the Rebellion; but the People will overcome the oppressors !
Become one with your enemy... then what choice has he but to express his expanded self (which is now you... your understanding having become his own.)?
So many wise people writing on CD... So many ignoramuses in decision making positions. Think of them as yourself (in another body)... think from inside their heads and infuse their befuddled, deadened and misguided programming with real insight... your own.
There is only one consciousness and it is in all of us... use that fact and catalyze some big changes... it's really not that hard to get into another's mind once you realize it is your mind too... just in a different location.
It's not an enemy... just an opportunity to turn on the light...
ma77hew; exactly and succinctly put. Could not have said it one-half as well myself.
Ma77hew, given that making war on an abstract noun, namely 'terror', is a physical impossibility, you may have a point.
Themselves exempted, of course.
"I don't think we're there yet, but I do see that we're going in that direction," Gespass said. "I think the... act is a significant step in that direction."
I guess he can't see the forest for the trees.
My father warned me about this day...he cited how close the U.S. came to joining the Axis...the enormous following of the German-American Bund in the 30s with support of the titans of American history like Henry Ford and so-called patriots like Lindbergh. After WWII, he pointed out all the Nazis admitted to the U.S. in the guise of 'helping' our national security in the cold war.
Here we are!
Yes, curmudgeon! My father told me about those days as well. It was a close call with fascism then and I believe we are much closer to it now. Nancy and I are in the occupy movement and committed to doing what we can to stop this slide. We'll be in DC Superior Court on January 18 for Nancy's arraignment for the charge of interfering with Leon Panetta's lies to the liars of the House Armed Services Committee at the Rayburn Building back in October. Thanks for a touch of personal history!
I see a SILVER lining to this cloud, although it is still dark and just a trifle premature these days.
When the real perpe-traitors behind 911 and economic warfare are caught -- their own despotic laws -- makes it irrelevant and unnecessary to hold any trials, presuming the 99% are in power and have full access to every last secret file and recordings of exactly what happened, when, and by whom.
WE the people will be lawfully able to lock them up forever -- as their having deceitfully funded and inflicting terrorism and war crimes -- on US citizens and the world. Just by those in the new ruling structure merely saying so …
Clearly getting to that point is never supposed to be allowed, but once we do get there, it will be quite the time of jubilation.
I suspect, that the outright shared JOY of the HUGE public spectacle of open trials, and the return of morality and the rule of constitutional LAW -- will overcome those wishing expedient treatment of such heinous criminals.
Hopefully, the equally PUBLIC capital punishment of these unremitting amoral parasitic capitalist warmongerers, will be bypassed in favor of them having to live out their lives, knowing that their criminality is now known by 7 billion people. So that they absolutely know that they'd be safer in jail …
Perhaps those in Texas will not fair so well as others ?
Isn't it curious -- how different justice is -- than what the law says, does, or what the truth can bear ?
be more specific
What in the world leads you to believe, "real perpe-traitors behind 911 and economic warfare [will be] caught"? For example, have the real-perps to USS Liberty crime been caught?
To paraphrase, "It is impossible for a people to understand an idea when their lifestyle depends on their not understanding."
Because it's to me about EVOLUTION of consciousness, and that any particular revolution is only a small step (sometimes forward) into another form of status quo domination.
See the 37m YouTube video of John Trudell's "Poetry, Politics and Perspective - Detroit 2010," at http://bit.ly/vFL39q
Every institution is by its nature self-perserving & self-propagating, and thereby detests and loathes ANY change.
Less flexible and less aware people act as their own institutions..
Only individuals are possibly motivated to be in the here and now -- and that only when their egoic forces are tamed and distance is provided -- to contemplate their being the experiencer of their experiences (having them), not being tightly and inexorably identified with BEING the experience itself.
Of course the real perpetrators of most malevolent actions, will never face their victims -- but future generations can become aware of how each moment of every day, that they create the world around them -- and learn how to choose better.
I'm sorry for purposefully exaggerating the actually VERY long term prognosis that we face, as none of us living now has any chance of being there when power is returned to the people.
This is a multi-generational EVOLUTION that we face.
The battle of good vs. evil is purposefully externalized (violence, fear, hate, and enemies) to disempower and distract our internal evolution, and necessary personal struggles with morality and making better choices.
To me this is a spiritual battle that each of us chooses to become conscious of -- or not. Our communities, parents, childhoods, and adult experiences ALL are part of the mix -- of what we become conscious to -- or not. Those of us having better opportunities and evolved consciousness, are the torch bearers for those suffering their darknesses more so, we MUST raise the light for others to see better for themselves.
Overall, the degree of hope that I have, is related to having that abiding FAITH in the innate goodness in all people (minus psychopaths), and that LIFE itself is the causative vector of ever improving evolution.
That the trials and tribulations that we ALL necessarily go through, that egregious and unrelenting suffering, is our being collectively provided opportunities to individually learn, know, and then choose better behaviors.
Therefore, the purposeful economic devastations are very likely merely tools to usurp, dominate, distract, and preoccupy our natural growth -- not strictly about wealth transfer -- but attempting to end the possibilities of growth.
To our everlasting benefit, LIFE itself will not stand still evolutionarily, and abhors the lack of adaptation and elevated consciousness -- even more than vacuums …
If times were much better, some people would grow faster, while the majority would hardly have any reason to grow at all. Hard times means we're ALL forced to grow and adapt -- to take on new ways of beingness, connection and community (selflessness), as habituated consumptive materialistic selfishness is the engine driving us toward oblivion.
Of course the USS LIberty's mass murder is unresolved, but those of us who study it (Operation Sinai-ide = Cyanide) know that it was a unsuccessful earlier version of 911, attempting to draw the USA into Middle East warmongering and profiteerism.
Yes, only when people's collective "lifestyle depends on their … understanding," the truth of such matters, will the evolution have been successful (in that realm). But even that is still but one iterative phase, and human growth is boundlessly possible, ever after.
Meanwhile, not enough of us are asking, "Why? Why now - these draconian moves - and why are they following in quick succession at this time?"
One reason:
Think about the possible consequences if the electorate became aware of the upcoming, and at this point inevitable, "civilization crash." Scientists, and many other cultural visionaries are now estimating that by 2020 at the latest, humanity will be facing a "perfect storm" from which there will be no escape.
"Scientists, and many other cultural visionaries..."
----------
Interesting linkage - scientists as "cultural visionaries"
Being a geologist by training, and a student of the natural world by inclination, which includes mankind ~ us ~ I do see, or more properly, imagine - this "perfect storm."
It's 4 am here in Calgary - and I'm up worrying. As I remember it, I started worrying in 1972, when I read the "Limits to Growth" scenario. I had already lived through Atomic Bomb shelter training, and seen JFK and Bobby murdered - read "Silent Spring", watched my father, a former Marine, die of a heart attack from modern living ~ at the age of 36 ~ so perhaps I was worrying long before 1972 ~ now that I think of it.
Just the other day, I made it to the mountains again for a small, a very small, spot of climbing - and was temporarily renewed.
But here I am - back - and worrying.
If misery really does love company - perhaps there is, in this emotion - a silver lining?
Manysummits
=======
Michael Desautels/Many Summits,
Thank you for your from-the-heart post. No doubt we have some difficult times coming up. The solutions "progressives" have tried (more of the same) have not worked. This suggests the possibility of working from a second-order-change perspective (see - Change, by Paul Watzlawick et. al.)
Perhaps some answers are to be found in the one place we haven't yet looked - within - the evolution of human consciousness. (e.g. Jean Gebser, Jose Arguelles).
Practicing Radical Honesty by Brad Blanton also has some insightful gems.
If a government has the support of its people, it has no need of draconian laws and repressive actions. The U.S. government has ceased being a legitimate representative of the American people; it's clearly now a plutocracy -- a government of, by and for the rich -- and the corporations they own. It's setting up the apparatus to retain power when the majority finally wake up and realize they've been robbed and disenfranchised.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Time to wake up before it's too late!
As Duane Elgin has described, it is imperative that we do whatever we are able to counter powerful, contemporary "Adversity Trends," including global climate change, the rapid extinction of species, the depletion of key resources, the continuing increase in world population, and the rapidly growing gap between the rich and the poor. These trends are converging into a whole-systems crisis, creating the possibility of a crash within one generation, if large portions of humanity do not find new ways of living.
There needs to be a removal of obstacles to correct actions. Humanity will act as prevailing powers allow it to act and as these powers encourage humanity is to act.
Also see: Speaking Truth to Power - Carolynbaker.net
Thanks for this reminder on Carolyn Baker. I had forgotten about her. Her perspective, which adds a spiritual dimension to our discussion of the issues, is definitely needed at this time. Highly recommend visiting her website.
No it isn't needed. Spirituality and doomerism. While you're at it why don't you throw a little arsenic trioxide into the mix so that way you can hit a trifecta of poisons instead of only having two.
I've also thought for a long time that calling what ...people like her does 'speaking truth to power' is a little offensive to the ideas of Martin Luther King. Somehow I don't think that he would approve of telling people how many of them are going to die and how hopeless they are by electronically slithering down from your doomstead periodically.
Did you ever think that what MLK was saying was a warning, maybe without every gory detail, of what the War Machine will bring and that was why he was killed?
It is much worse now then 68, so do you suggest that we only vision what was in 68?
A nuclear war and “War on Terror"could be visionally told in nice language too and already has been by military Hawks.
What are you trying to say? I honestly don't understand you.
Will maybe I didn’t understand you.
I thought you were saying to Ronnie that Talking truth to power was over the top and MLK didn’t do anything like that.
What were you saying if I misunderstood?
We sort of talked past each other, so I'll try and be clearer.
1) When Martin Luther King 'spoke truth to power' it was a new tactic and he actually gave a shit about the welfare of the people whose cause he was acting for.
2) When Carolyn Baker and her ilk 'speak truth to power' it is about as new and about as useful as week old moldered meat stuck in a microwave. Leftists need more spirituality to tell them how hopeless they are, much less to be remotely lectured to by people that according to the doomer dogma, will basically bail out on them at the earliest opportunity, like we need extra holes in our head.
We will release you when we are no longer afraid of you.
The longer we hold you the more afraid we become.
Sadly this is why we need Paul. He's the only stop to a Nazi/Soviet police state and world war III. It might actually be too late. This is getting crazy and I don't care about anything else, he looks like the only one willing to stop it!
Shhh....quiet, your not supposed to point that out. Don't worry kids, cpotts18 didn't mean that. Clearly, the only thing we have left is, you guessed it: OBAMA 2012!!! Yeah!!! This time he'll really really really REALLY close Gitmo, we swear to God!
We do have an alternative. Vote for Rocky Anderson of the Justice Party.
My friend, I know we are looking for an alternative. Allthough Paul says many pretty things, he also says many unbalanced things. Fact is we have no good solution via voting at this time because the game is rigged. Meanwhile, I googled your handle and I just really want to say.... stop reading Rich Dad Poor Dad. That info is going nowhere. It's just another gimmick made to feed the machine, the 1%.
No Repubican, especially including Paul, Democrat or anyone in the MSM has even mentioned the C word,
CORRUPTION with its attendant criminal activities such as fraud, bribery of public officials[why is this not a threat to national security]theft of the FORCED CONTRIBUTIONS, WITHHOLDING TAXES, taxing labor and transferring tax monies to the CAPITALIST BANKSTERS to pay interest on the COUNTERFEIT DEBT they created. Wall St., Wash., DC is the Axis of Evil a criminal conspiracy. AS George Carlin alluded to the USA is a phony country from day one and the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are COUNTERFEIT guarantee's which the Federalists have sought to prove, the guarantee's are COUNTERFEIT and they have no intention of recognizing the Constitution's validity except when it applies to corporations.
bogi666
Excellent points which is all the more reason why progressives, liberals and leftists should give serious consideration to a third party candidate such as Rocky Anderson who recognizes how truly corrupt both parties are.
http://citizenactionmonitor.wordpress.com/2011/12/14/rocky-anderson-for-president-blasts-two-dominant-parties-for-sustaining-corrupt-system/
Haha, I haven't been to that forum in years! Although I hear Kiyosaki is a big prepper now.
Just in time for Julian Assange and his "dangerous" cohorts...
No, really, let's elect this Obama guy for another four years, he clearly doesn't mean us any harm.
folks, we're on the edge of engaging in a really big war. syria is being destabilized as the US govt is threatening iran w/ military engagement. if this transpires (US or israel attacking iran) the world's other great powers (nuclear powers) china, russia and pakistan will not sit on the sidelines. our troops have surrounded iran and our economic/military leaders will not allow govts outside the purview of american leaders to have significant impact on geopolitical affairs. the entire point of imperial decree dictates that only the privileged have the right to dictate the affairs of mankind.
the defense authorization act, soon to be signed by obama, will guarantee that any citizens in america who can find the muster to resist this war on the streets will be deemed enemy combatants (or sympathizers). remember the human shields in iraq in 03 and the visits by voices in the wilderness to iraq during the clinton embargo. these folks, in the future, will be branded sympathizers - potential enemies of the state. they will be detained and tortured and there won't be a damn thing any of us can do about it.
the US ceased being a functional democracy years ago, but the territory the govt is moving towards - with the passing of this legislation - is truly fascist. it is not hyperbole. the legislators who voted for this bill are traitors to the constitution (bill of rights) and deserve to be tried and imprisoned for so brazenly creating a bonified military police state.
the president is also a traitor. let him understand in no uncertain terms, you will not vote for him as a person of conscience if he signs this bill.
amnesty international is encouraging people to send the president an email (i just did) indicating their feelings about this legislation. i encourage others to do the same. at this point, i want my name on a list that clearly says, 'this is wrong - we live in a country that respects the rule of law'.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
President Obama: Veto the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act
http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx?c=6oJCLQPAJiJUG&b=6645049&aid=516971
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
if you value a society that appreciates political participation and an engaged citizenry please sign this action alert.
...peace...
Best of luck "iowablackbird"
Mike
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" i want my name on a list ..."
be careful what you wish for.
Ha Ha Ha, you post on CD and there are 77 USA fusion centers. Ya all are on the Master List.
that's ok then - they always misspell my name and will come to the wrong house.
Well, if "the US ceased being a functional democracy years ago," as you say, why would you then follow with, "let him (Obama) understand in no uncertain terms, you will not vote for him as a person of conscience if he signs this bill" ??
Voting for the Pres/VP has been a scam for decades......and now made completely transparent by the use of electronic voting and software tampering. This is how GWB 'won' 2 elections, and why the GOP 'allowed' McGrumpy and Miss Sarah to run in '08 - they knew the fix was in for Barry.
Signing online petitions, etc, is fine, as far as it goes, but the corpora-fascists and banksters do not care about the 'Will' of the People'. It'll just make it easier for the gooks to find you and put you on a train to a FEMA camp.