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Cheney Demands Release of CIA Memos Proving Torture 'Success'
Former US vice-president Cheney says CIA memos showed torture methods such as waterboarding delivered 'good' intelligence
The former US vice-president Dick Cheney has called for the disclosure of CIA memos which reveal the "success" of torture techniques, including waterboarding, used on al-Qaida suspects under the Bush administration.
Cheney said that, according to secret documents he has seen, the interrogation techniques, which the Obama administration now accepts amounted to torture, delivered "good" intelligence. He hinted that it had significant consequences for US security.
Cheney was speaking out in response to the release by Barack Obama of four Bush administration memos detailing the agency's interrogation methods used against al-Qaida suspects.
"One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn't put out the memos that showed the success of the effort," Cheney said in an appearance on Fox News.
"I haven't talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw, that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.
"I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was."
Obama yesterday visited CIA headquarters to defend the publication of the internal documents. The row gathered further momentum yesterday when it emerged that one detainee, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, had been subjected to waterboarding 183 times and another, Abu Zubaydah, 83 times.
Obama is keen to try to put the row behind him, reluctant to see prosecutions that could be politically divisive and distract attention from his heavy domestic and foreign agenda.
In a speech to about 1,000 staff aimed at restoring CIA morale, Obama, who promised last week that CIA operatives would not be prosecuted, reiterated that he would stand by them.
"Don't be discouraged by what's happened in the last few weeks," Obama said. "Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge potentially we've made some mistakes. That's how we learn."
At a private meeting with 50 rank-and-file CIA members at their headquarters in Langley, Virginia, before his speech, Obama heard "understandable anxiety and concern" from agents fearful of prosecution.
The CIA's director during the Bush administration, Michael Hayden, who criticised the release of the memos, warned on Sunday that agents could be vulnerable because of the memos, facing civil lawsuits or congressional inquiries.
Sensitive details were blacked out in the memos seen by most of the media on Thursday but over the weekend Marcy Wheeler, of the Emptywheel blog, found a copy in which crucial details were not masked.
That copy showed that Mohammed had been subjected to waterboarding - which simulates drowning - 183 times in March 2003. He had been arrested in Pakistan at the start of that month. Abu Zubaydah, a Saudi captured in Pakistan in March 2002, was subjected to waterboarding 83 times in August 2002.
Mohammed had admitted to involvement in terrorist actions before his capture but, after being interrogated, confessed to a list of incidents and plots that included the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre in New York, as well as a plot to attack Heathrow, Big Ben and Canary Wharf, the beheading of the US journalist Daniel Pearl, and the Bali bombing.
Abu Zubaydah denied involvement with al-Qaida.
Obama, defending himself against those in the CIA who argued that he should not have released the memos, said legally he had no grounds for blocking a freedom of information request from the US human rights group, the American Civil Liberties Union.
"I acted primarily because of the exceptional circumstances that surrounded these memos, particularly the fact that so much of the information was public," Obama said.
Standing in front of a wall with 89 stars, each depicting an officer killed in action, Obama praised the CIA as the "tip of the spear" in protecting the US from its enemies.
Obama said he understood that intelligence officials must sometimes feel that they are working with one hand tied behind their backs. But, rebutting Hayden, he said: "What makes the United States special and what makes you special is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it's hard, not just when it's easy, even when we are afraid and under threat, not just when its expedient to do so.
"So yes, you've got a harder job and so do I, and that's OK. And over the long term, that is why I believe we will defeat our enemies, because we're on the better side of history."
Hayden had argued that the harsher interrogation techniques had provided valuable information and said that the techniques did not amount to torture.
Human rights lawyers question the credibility of the confessions because they were obtained under duress.
The White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, when asked yesterday why Bush administration lawyers could not be prosecuted, said: "The president is focusing on looking forward."
- Posted in
119 Comments so far
Show AllDoublespeak...the POLICE STATES CONTINUES ...black is white...wrong is right....evil is good.....we are screwed.
Eyes front, Minds closed, March !
M I N D S _ are much like _ p a r a c h u t e s _, which only effectively function when
C o m p l e t e l y
O P E N
Release ALL the Bush-Cheney secret memos to the Hague for war crimes prosecution!
Actually, the police state would be a great idea, if....IF, we could use it on the police as well as have them use it on us.
To be explicit, anybody for waterboarding Cheney until he tells us what he knows about 9/11?
Just kidding, ha ha! Of course everybody in the world knows people of his ilk are clearly above the law and answer to no one but their bird cage owners: the global bankers who recently conned us out of -- how much is it now, $12 trillion?
It's just another day in sillyConValley();
www.sillyConValley.net
Don't forget war is peace and debt is wealth.
Does Cheney already fear a prosecution in his future? Perhaps outside the USA?
Anyhow, the idea that "the end justifies the means" is, or ought to be, totally discredited -- particularly when the means are so morally unjust. When I learned that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times, it makes no difference who he is or what he's accused of doing; I can't be proud of being an American any more.
Not until this country utterly repudiates this villainy and makes those who promoted it and practiced it pay heavily for their wickedness -- all the way to the top (i.e., the White House).
Rachel Maddow had a breaking story last evening, saying that Holder may consider prosecution. Have not heard anything since. MASS PROTEST may be the only way to initiate real change in this country...passive or aggressive...whatever it takes. How can we continue to live under this repressive criminality? Something is seriously assunder and only the general populace can demand change.
Someone needs to tell Dick that he's really missed the point of this whole subject.
q
cheney, you are the most vile, insipid, arrogant piece of shit to ever walk this planet, in my lifetime. and certainly, ranking way up on the list in the history of mankind. you do not deserve to breathe the same air as the rest of humanity, nor are you worthy of any sort of praise or respect. the simple fact that you have to blow your horn with sean hannity says enough.
"i've now formally asked the cia to take steps..." yeah, right, what business is the cia's to you anymore? care to share that with us? and why isn't your sock puppet president (you remember that other half of your psychopathic eight years, don't you) speaking instead of you?
now that you're finally seeing the dangling noose and feeling the hairs on your ass begin to singe, you're bringing out yet one more of your mind-fuck games, and the stupid american sheople who supported you and your cohorts will only be too glad to continue bringing this country down.
you, you sorry prick, are not worthy of any sort of salvation.
He would have made a good Nazi, don't you think?
Oh he would have competed for the top Nazi post--and probably gotten it.
Would have? He IS a good Nazi.
Funny how people from the intelligence community say torture was a failure... but then, you can never believe anything Cheney says, anyway.
LOL! That is so true. He's a Nazi without the intelligence.
All true. If there is a case for pure evil, it's Cheney. Not only that, he is one of the most arrogant men i've ever seen. If he would keep his big mouth shut his evil deeds would probably fade into memory, but he's not going to do that. I hope the mouth stays open--then we might have a chance at seeing him pay for his unspeakable crimes.
and obama, it's time for you to grow a set of balls and stop sermonizing us on "looking forward." you've got unfinished business to take care of.
Exactly. Until some of these fascist bastards are made to do hard time the same old crap will continue. If Nixon had done a few years in the slammer, a lot of things would have been different since that time. Unless Obama allows investigation and prosecution to proceed, he is an accessory after the fact, leaving himself open for investigation and prosecution by the next "less forward looking" president.
Yes, Obama does need to smack Cheney down, tell him to sit down and shut up while he fixes this mess.
The prosecution of Dick Cheney for war crimes and corruption must be an immediate priority. He openly violates American law and International law with a dangerous sense of entitlement. He must be confronted, engaged, and put down. His enablers must be challenged and justice dispensed. The need to end Fascism in America is immediate and great and the time is now.
Fascism in America is very entrenched. That a person like Dick Cheney could ever be vice president, much less the power behind the throne, shows how entrenched it is. Obama must be careful or he won't survive. I'm divided: half of the time I think Obama is a puppet of the powers that be, the other half I'm convinced that he's a very smart cookie, doing all he can given the circumstances. Either way, I know an intelligent man when I see one. Also, I realize that there is only so much one man can do, no matter how pressing the priorities. I hope his heart is in the right place, and I wish him the best of luck.
Cheney is playing games here, he is floating the idea torture was useful while helping the Obama admin. covering his, and other asses inside the Bush admin. Why do I have this nagging feeling that, if the Bush admin. had received anything noteworthy in the results, this info would have been trumpeted all over the media. This, from an outfit who outed a CIA officer purely for political reasons. I am betting the use of torture did NOT reveal any meaningful intel.
The thing is, even if there were any 'meaningful' intel, you could not trust it because a person under torture will say anything to stop the torture. So if Cheney could point to some information that turns out to be true long after the fact, what value could it have been?
Cheney doesn't even mention the immorality of torture. It's like Hitler trying to justify the final solution by claiming it helped bring Germany out of the depression, or Stalin justifying the slaughter of millions of peasants by claiming it helped win the war. Cheney is right up there with the aforementioned duo, and it's so obvious it's scary.
Yes, reliable or meaningful intelligence is supposed to be the entire focus, but it is NOT in the least.
As I explained in part above at time stamp
{ powerfully_true April 21st, 2009 3:54 pm }
The logic breaks down because old fashioned slow and systematic gathering of data, as well as non-torture based interviewing -- have long established successful histories.
What is being hid in plain sight is that pre-_ 9 _ 1 _ ! _ intelligence did work VERY successfully in illuminating the possible threats.
The problem was that the _ 9 _ 1 _ ! intelligence was mis-interpreted ( and denigrated ), which can happened either on purpose or because of the unreliability of the data. Which is why multiple independent means are systematically compared, with both explicit and circumstantial data, and a matrix of possible theories of motives and opportunity.
A s k _ y o u r s e l f,
why would more reliable data be thrown out
while less reliable and usually meaningless data was given higher priority ?
Namaste
I dunno, maybe because CIA head George Tenet was compromised by the bush crime family? Tenet, at the monkey's request, cherry picked data that supported the Commander-in-Chimp's already arrived at conclusion that Iraq must be attacked (according to 60 Minutes aired a year ago.)
Ugly, Ugly history. We need to sacrifice both the Bush and Cheney tribes on a televised Watergate Trial to try and redeem ourselves in the eyes of the world.
Or this empire is doomed just like the Romans and Spanish and British who ruled the Earth by torture.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
"What is being hid in plain sight is that pre-_ 9 _ 1 _ ! _ intelligence did work VERY successfully in illuminating the possible threats."
So true. The Bush administration really screwed the pooch in allowing 9/11 to occur. That administration didn't even do the job it was supposed to do and claims it did: perhaps that's one reason why Cheyenne is driveling on about the CIA Memos. Cheney is in a tight spot, and he's too arogant to realize it. Lets see if he gets caught in his own web. Hope so.
You are partial correct in saying " … really screwed the pooch in allowing 9/11 to occur"
There is not a scintilla of doubt that the events of that September day were more than allowed to occur, they were carefully orchestrated, and neatly packaged for public consumption ( and stampeding ) = PSYOPS + propaganda.
The absolutely unambivalent scientific proof is now found in the nanoscoptic residues of WTC demolition dusts, that still today contain active explosives as powerful as dynamite. Carefully scrutinized and characterized nano-thermite explosives leave no doubt as to who was the agent of collapse of the WTC collapses, as only the USA military "contractors" have access to anything as technologically sophisticated and extremely challenging to produce ( even today ~ 8 years later ).
This aspect is 100% supported by the impossibility of gravity alone ( with a couple of air planes ) causing the destruction observed -- there MUST have been a "hidden" source of great explosive energy, to pulverize the concrete, eliminate the matrix of steel under-structure, that then collapsed the humongous buildings down to the ground at free fall speeds through the densest and strongest portion of the structure.
We must demand a thorough and complete investigation of causality,
as the previous rubber stamping of what they wanted us to believe happened
-- is now demonstrably false --
Namaste
Right on, stone. There should be no hesitation about indicting him for his illegal and disgraceful acts.
Darth Vader knows that his challege to reveal the "good" information obtained through torture cannot be met for reasons of security. Even if that was possible, it is beside the point because we just do not torture for any reason! It's a game on his part that should be brought to an end by putting him to trial.
Why does anyone even bother listening to this right wing hack????
Cheney should be waterboarded for 100 times to get the truth out of him for a change. He says it produces good results and is not torture anyway, so that should work ok. We could call him an enemy combatant to make it legal and if that procedure doesn`t work, Egypt might help us out. It is about time that sick jerk that loves killing and torture shuts up and goes away. He is a black mark on our country and has fouled up a lot of peoples minds with his rotten actions.
Cheney needs to go down. He is part of the FOX team to incite the right wing rabble. Mr. President arrest him now!
Okay Dick, if torture works, let's torture you into confessing that you and Dubya had an affair.
Great idea dick! Lets promote the wonderful success that can be gained by torture! Every police station and church basement should have a torture room. It's cheap and fun! Will surely save lots of money for the justice system, not the least because many of the interrogated will die during their torture.
This turd in a suit has set back by decades all the work against torture worldwide.
Thanks amerika.
Jarhead
I have known all along that Cheney was an idiot. The sadistic bastard really believes this. Why dont that piece of manure heart he has flunk out? The sissy ass draft dodger has no say so anymore. Who appointed him president of I want? George a deserter Bush, another coward. Eight years of that bunch of dictators was enough, now shut the hell up.
I'm sure Cheney has personal copies of all the memos. So go ahead and release them, you Dick.
"What makes the United States special and what makes you special is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it's hard, not just when it's easy, even when we are afraid and under threat, not just when its expedient to do so.
"So yes, you've got a harder job and so do I, and that's OK. And over the long term, that is why I believe we will defeat our enemies, because we're on the better side of history." Mr. Obama to the CIA.
This shows that Mr. Obama has the mind of a war criminal, too. Remember he is talking about a crime-torture. Yet, he implies that torture is part of our ideals and values. This guy is twisted.
What now? The American people have to remove this cancer through impeachment or become culpable in these crimes.
Like OJ Simpson, Cheney doesn't and apparently can't grasp the horror of what he has done. We who oppose torture in the sense that NOTHING justifies its use are not interested in his statistics about how 'well' it has worked. We are interested in
seeing torture-supporters and their distorted value systems culled from positions of power and influence and brought to account for crimes against mankind.
Pippilin: Good point. Even if it was true like Cheney lied about, that torture gets results, I would be against it.
The truth of this matter is that Dick Cheney not only knew about the false flag orchestrated event we call 9/11 but he was it's principle architect, all evidence shows.
These people we had taken off the street many just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time were in horrible conditions in custody, it is beyond belief that this treasonous criminal scum Cheney is trying to further his cover up of 9/11 by saying that the torture techniques saved America. When in fact the torture techniques were designed to solicit false confessions as part of the cover up of 9/11.
What kind of super terrorist organization wouldn't be able to change it's procedures and cover things up after just a week of having someone taken into custody? These people were tortured for years! It is not at all the kind of practice you would do to counter a major criminal organization. You would keep things secret whilst you go about infiltrating the organization -- don't publicly arrest people!! Let them feel free, gain their confidences, so you can find out exactly what they are doing in real time, this is highly valuable and it is the way to bring them to justice.
Torture produces no valid results. This is just another attempt by the anti-American terrorist criminal Dick Cheney to cover up his horrendous crimes.
Yes,
and furthermore, there is not an iota of truth in ANY advantage of extracting misleading and questionable "intelligence" information ONLY through torture,
especially when compared to and while IGNORING mountains of conventionally obtained ( real ) "intelligence", that can and was independently validated multitudinously times -- substantially in advance knowledge of our 'oh too mysterious' _ 9 _ ! _ ! _ false flag event.
The __ ƒ ⊃ © k i n g __ " bomb clock " of _ 9 _ ! _ ! _ was ticking for years
… and was actually well foreshadowed …
BUT we are told with feigned unnoticed disinterest, that it was decided to have been unreliable !
while we are told that TORTURE is mandated to solve so many ticking " bomb clocks " that have only seconds before the terrorist detonate them -- and that all of our attention needs to be applied to _ r a p i d l y _pulling finger nails off, to prevent eminent disaster.
_ U R G E N C Y _
is formed from the extreme and exigent conditions of a real and dire combination of an IMMEDIATE, compelling, and time-pressed jeopardy of a HIGH PRIORITY, critical, and valuable item.
We are being had.
If it's all so urgent,
… why not do the serious and detailed ( actually successful ) intelligence gathering efforts
like those that were clearly made MONTHS _ p r i o r _ to _ 9 _ ! _ ! _ ?
How is it that nominal intelligence is supposed to have failed or been misinterpreted, and thereby WE had to abandoned it
…while spurious and pre-ordained to be UNRELIABLE flimsy torture confessions
are supposed and expected to succeed ( so we need more, quickly now ) ?
What is reliably known is that …
This stinks worse than the combined wicked
smirks of the dickster and bushwacker !
Namaste
-agents fearful of prosecution
Boooo, Hooooo, so sad! What a shame these "dedicated professionals" as Obama calls them were not more concerned about breaking the law before they started murdering and tortuing their prisoners.
Cheney is sabotaging Barack Obama's efforts for the ruling class to sweep US government use of torture back under the rug. What a total meat loaf!
Obama wants to keep the tortures covert and these Republican dunces want it out in the open and overt! See, Virginia, there is a big difference between the two parties.
Good spot, yes Cheney and Obama make a good tag team. In the official press they go at it, meanwhile Guantanamo is not covert enough so the abductees are being flown from all over the world to the even more remote Bagram
The Fascist Repugs keep rationalizing and making excuses for torture. I was watching C-Span this morning and they had some Repug Congressman from Iowa and folks I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP! To paraphrase: He said torture was okay and not illegal because it was not done in the Western Hemisphere! So according to that asinine logic, as long we fly the suspects out of the Western Hemisphere, torture is humane. Please! These corrupt, old men, like him and Cheney are traitors to America and they have to go away and the sooner the better.
Holder should move on prosecution of the administration -- lawyers and all -
who violated our laws -- whether by legal distortion or undermining of law --
and the conspiracy involving the President/VP and their hirelings.
American public wants action on this -- but our Congress is not moving because . . . ??? Obama should stand aside and let Congress and Holder
move on these criminals.
And thanks to all who continue to push for prosecution!
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
The most idiotic suggestion I’ve ever heard from the party of criminally insane animals, the Republican Party. Everyone knows torture does not provide reliable information. It only creates hate, fear and terror (which is all the republican party stands for, OK greed should be added). All the animals that used torture and all that ordered torture should be put to death for their vile, foul, inhumane treatment. All civilized societies have laws against these torture techniques the bush administration ordered, since 1215.
Besides did they think thru torture they would get to the truth of 9/11, these individuals did not know the bush administration ordered and setup the 9/11 attackes?
The super-rich are immune to justice.
Perhaps more accurately "The super-rich" are immune from _ S H A M E _, after having taken their psychopathetic "shots" at US.
Perhaps more accurately "The super-rich" are immunized from _ P R O S E C U T I O N _, after having paying off their legislative lackeys and industrial strength DA cleaners.
Perhaps more accurately "The super-rich" are going to find _ J U S T I C E _, because that is a force of nature outside of HUMAN control.
Namaste
His mouth opened, therefore, he lied! (But, of course, when no such memos are forthcoming it will be a liberal cover-up according to FOX.) Nice Script,Karl!
Remember:
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
We've ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia!
We've got MORE of whatever shortages we are enduring, as the government predicted.
We are more financially stable than we have EVER been, ask any government supported billionaire.
Reread Orwell's "1984," London's "The Iron Heel," Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here."
It already has!
You are right it is scary, with many more similarities to today.