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TechnoratiCheney Demands Release of CIA Memos Proving Torture 'Success'
Former US vice-president Cheney says CIA memos showed torture methods such as waterboarding delivered 'good' intelligence
The former US vice-president Dick Cheney has called for the disclosure of CIA memos which reveal the "success" of torture techniques, including waterboarding, used on al-Qaida suspects under the Bush administration.
Cheney said that, according to secret documents he has seen, the interrogation techniques, which the Obama administration now accepts amounted to torture, delivered "good" intelligence. He hinted that it had significant consequences for US security.
Cheney was speaking out in response to the release by Barack Obama of four Bush administration memos detailing the agency's interrogation methods used against al-Qaida suspects.
"One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn't put out the memos that showed the success of the effort," Cheney said in an appearance on Fox News.
"I haven't talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw, that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.
"I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was."
Obama yesterday visited CIA headquarters to defend the publication of the internal documents. The row gathered further momentum yesterday when it emerged that one detainee, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, had been subjected to waterboarding 183 times and another, Abu Zubaydah, 83 times.
Obama is keen to try to put the row behind him, reluctant to see prosecutions that could be politically divisive and distract attention from his heavy domestic and foreign agenda.
In a speech to about 1,000 staff aimed at restoring CIA morale, Obama, who promised last week that CIA operatives would not be prosecuted, reiterated that he would stand by them.
"Don't be discouraged by what's happened in the last few weeks," Obama said. "Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge potentially we've made some mistakes. That's how we learn."
At a private meeting with 50 rank-and-file CIA members at their headquarters in Langley, Virginia, before his speech, Obama heard "understandable anxiety and concern" from agents fearful of prosecution.
The CIA's director during the Bush administration, Michael Hayden, who criticised the release of the memos, warned on Sunday that agents could be vulnerable because of the memos, facing civil lawsuits or congressional inquiries.
Sensitive details were blacked out in the memos seen by most of the media on Thursday but over the weekend Marcy Wheeler, of the Emptywheel blog, found a copy in which crucial details were not masked.
That copy showed that Mohammed had been subjected to waterboarding - which simulates drowning - 183 times in March 2003. He had been arrested in Pakistan at the start of that month. Abu Zubaydah, a Saudi captured in Pakistan in March 2002, was subjected to waterboarding 83 times in August 2002.
Mohammed had admitted to involvement in terrorist actions before his capture but, after being interrogated, confessed to a list of incidents and plots that included the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre in New York, as well as a plot to attack Heathrow, Big Ben and Canary Wharf, the beheading of the US journalist Daniel Pearl, and the Bali bombing.
Abu Zubaydah denied involvement with al-Qaida.
Obama, defending himself against those in the CIA who argued that he should not have released the memos, said legally he had no grounds for blocking a freedom of information request from the US human rights group, the American Civil Liberties Union.
"I acted primarily because of the exceptional circumstances that surrounded these memos, particularly the fact that so much of the information was public," Obama said.
Standing in front of a wall with 89 stars, each depicting an officer killed in action, Obama praised the CIA as the "tip of the spear" in protecting the US from its enemies.
Obama said he understood that intelligence officials must sometimes feel that they are working with one hand tied behind their backs. But, rebutting Hayden, he said: "What makes the United States special and what makes you special is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it's hard, not just when it's easy, even when we are afraid and under threat, not just when its expedient to do so.
"So yes, you've got a harder job and so do I, and that's OK. And over the long term, that is why I believe we will defeat our enemies, because we're on the better side of history."
Hayden had argued that the harsher interrogation techniques had provided valuable information and said that the techniques did not amount to torture.
Human rights lawyers question the credibility of the confessions because they were obtained under duress.
The White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, when asked yesterday why Bush administration lawyers could not be prosecuted, said: "The president is focusing on looking forward."
119 Comments so far
Show AllHow about letting Mr. Cheney "enjoy" what he so fervently is advocating? And then let him drown.
This dumb fuck thinks he still wields political power. He is in no position to demand anything.
dick cheney: The Face of the Religious Right...Jesus is my co-torturer!!
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Cheney Defense: Request non-existent memos showing torture produced info which prevented attacks, then complain when the memos aren't released.
ctrl-z: I think you are inside Cheney's head, but even if he could come up with legitimate cases where torture was successful, it is: IMMORAL,ILLEGAL AND AGAINST THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS WHICH THE U.S. IS A SIGNATORY TO. Beyond that,it puts our captured soldiers in one hell of a predicament as they can be tortured as all the enemy has to do is quote Cheney: " Torture was successful".
I agree.
Whatever beneficial information that was gleaned through torture is dwarfed by the legal and moral damage done to the United States. We've lost any moral high ground we had, even after the illegal invasion of Iraq.
The "good" information gained through torture possibly could have been gained through legal means instead. Torture wasn't necessary.
Torture is indefensible.
This Dick Cheney didn't get it, won't get it.
torture is evil.
someone try to make him understand that!!!!!!
what a wonderful fellow .... just keep him talking .................
As Jon Stewart asked last night (paraphrasing), "why are we continuing to listen to a guy who got EVERYTHING wrong for eight years?"
If you don't learn anything actionable within the first day then everything after that is moot, as far as something that could be deemed actionable it's probably nonsense.. Torture is not a good way to learn information. Dialogue and achieving a common ground with your captive has probably gained more than any waterboarding. The use or drugs to inhibit resitance under controlled medical supervision is sometimes productive. Of course, it takes more time and intelligence to work this way.
Plus, the sycophants running these operations are probably producing these nonsense reports to cover their asses and advance their careers. There are alot of good people in the intelligence business but most are held down by ass kissing, right-wing chicken hawks, whom would sell their people down the road in a minute to save their own worthless butts.
You also let the Genie out of the bottle for enemies to torture indiscrimately and let your operations people feel that taking risk is a certifiable death sentence.
Cheney says show us how torture works. Hey Cheney, you brainiac..... robbing banks at gunpoint is an effective way to make money for the robber. Does a rational society find robbing banks as an acceptable way of earning a living?
Cheney, Cheney, He's my man
-Adolph Hitler
Here's a pretty good MOTIVE for Bin Laden to attack the US:
Osama Bin Laden's brother lost his money and his life while in a business relationship with GWB.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbusto_Energy
Hey I know Dick, Since you want to find Bin Laden,
Maybe we could check with George W. Bush's business partner for Arbusto Energy: Salem Bin Laden (Brother of Bin Laden.)
Whoops, that's not going to work as he got shafted by GWB: george made millions right before he bankrupted the company. But poor old Salem Bin Laden had a nastly little aircraft accident killing him in 1988 in AUSTIN, Texas. Very convenient.
What? They didn't cover that on Fox News? I am shocked.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Has this point been made yet?: Cheney was one of the prime movers on the expanded torture protocals- AID has been training foreign governments in "advanced" torture techiques for decades- so it is likely that underlings did everything they could to produce reports indicating that useful information was obtained. He may believe that "good stuff" was obtained. At any rate, by comparison to the information obtained by the few CIA case officer operating in the field and the paucity of native collaborators, most of those being mostly after money- torture might well be seen as 'effective'.
As Norman Mailer wrote in "Harlot's Ghost", "It's hard to know what's worse: a successful or a failed CIA operation.
Gee, I wonder why we're having so many problems with Georgia (Russia) and Iran?
Could it be DICK's favorite pipeline project strung out through everybody's backyard causing a Haliburton/Bechtel natural gas monopoly?
The project is heavily criticized by Russia and Iran, current transit countries for Turkmen gas. Alexander Golovin, special envoy on Caspian issues, has stated that a major gas pipeline would pose a serious, dangerous risk to the prosperity of the entire region.[19] According to the Russian Natural Resources Ministry, any gas or oil pipelines across the floor of the Caspian Sea would be environmentally unacceptable.[20] Russia has also taken the legal position that a potential pipeline project, regardless of the route it takes on the seabed, would require the consent of all five Caspian littoral states in order to proceed.[19] Iran has pointed out that treaties signed by Iran and the Soviet Union in 1921 and 1940 are still in force and that any action taken without the consent of all the littoral states would be illegal.[21] In reaction to the 1999 plans for a Trans-Caspian gas pipeline Russia and Iran collaborated in calling for a Central Asian gas cartel in 2001 and 2002.[22]. There is also a Western concern that closer collaboration between Georgia and Azerbaijan will leave Armenia isolated and tempted to strengthen ties with Russia and Iran[7].
Go to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Caspian_Gas_Pipeline
and check out the map. Very Interesting. Scott Ritter says he has coordinates showing illegal (Haliburton) gas wells in Iran.
Without a doubt, Shotgun Dick is the loosest cannon we've ever had on deck. There's really nothing he won't do for personal gain.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Gee, Dick says Bin Laden is still a danger. I think Dick should first look around his pool in Dubai, then check Dallas Texas, the bush compound.
Look what I found:
Alleged business connections of the Bush and bin Laden families
Michael Moore's highly critical movie Fahrenheit 9/11 alleges strong business connections between the Bush family and the bin Laden family. Moore based most of his claims on Craig Unger's House of Bush, House of Saud which relates how Salem bin Laden invested through James R. Bath, the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, some money in Arbusto Energy, a company run by George W. Bush[3].
Several members of the Bush family are investors in the Carlyle Group, a defense contractor and investment fund with numerous interests in the Middle East, run by former Reagan administration Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci.[4] The media noted that former President George H. W. Bush attended an investment meeting at the Washington, D.C. Ritz-Carlton hotel on September 10, 2001 and in particular a meeting with Shafiq bin Laden, representing joint interests of the Saudi Binladin Group and Carlyle.[5] (Bush did not attend the morning of September 11, although it has been alleged that the meeting took place during the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Former Secretary of State James Baker was present, along with Carlucci.[5]) The Carlyle and Binladin groups mutually severed their business relationship on October 26, 2001.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
The sad thing is that Obama has essentially pardoned all those whose participated in torture who fully well knew that what they were doing was illegal. The CIA has been involved in all kinds of shady business for many years, but non of their agents have been known to blow the whistle.
Cheney's in perfect synchrony with the Obama White House and was most certainly sent to FOX News by Obama himself. His propaganda mission this time was to make easier for Obama to leave Bush and Cheney off the hook on their many crimes against humanity, which has always been one of the conditions that allowed Obama to become president in the first place. This will happen again, regardless of the crimes being ventilated by the media in the future, illegal wars, illegal wiretapping, illegal firings, illegal outings, etc.
Obama will never ever prosecute Cheney or Bush for torture (or for anything else), for 2 main reasons. One, the Democrats were in on the deal and knew about torture from the beginning. Two, Obama has already committed the same crimes and wishes to get away with them the same way. Case closed.
We know all about intelligence "successes" in the age of Cheney. Remember WMD? God forbid we should be subjected to any more Cheney successes.
The White House law team Jay Bygee and John Yoo should have their law license removed for lying about the law. They just made up a rationale for torture and that is not the law of the land. Also that lawyer at the Pentagon Mr Haynes or something like it.
Why do you pay lawyers? To advise you about the law-- if they just make it up-- they loose their license.
John Yoo said that torture is only when you cause organ failure. In other words if you can torture without evidence- such as in waterboarding- then you can get away with it-- WRONG!!! We signed up to the Geneva Conference etc.
No where in the article did I see any mention that when asked about Cheney's request, the CIA spokesman said that they were unaware of any request by Cheney. It seems that the man who still says that Saddam Hussein was in league with al Qaeda and was responsible for the attack on 9/11 is also ethically challenged in this matter as well.
If Dick Cheney's embracing of torture as a policy of state, can be proven to have saved uncounted lives, he deserves a thank you, and a life sentence without parole in a federal penitentiary. Or...if his tortures resulted in death, then death is the sentence per the War Crimes Act of 1996, which clearly states that if death results from torture, the death penalty shall apply...which is to say, thank you for your service to your country Mr. Vice President, the gallows is right over there, and if you refuse to walk, the Federal Marshals will carry you if necessary.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c104:5:./temp/~c104MreMSB::
A true patriot would give up his life if he really believed that he had saved countless lives, for it might well be worth it, from a personal point of view. However, the law is quite explicit in this, and the penalties very carefully laid out, for a reason. That reason? To send a clear and unequivocal message that crimes against humanity and human dignity will not be tolerated in a civilized world. Torture is the tactic of the weak of mind, and the impatient coward. It is unnecessary, but more importantly, and to the sharp point, is wrong. It is evil. It is a legacy of mankind that is to be fought with every fiber that makes us human. If this practice exists, we are all diminished. We are all just animals in a ruthless jungle of fight or flight. And I know there are a lot of people who do not believe that is what we are anymore. Too bad the previous President, Vice President and all of their coalition of the willing torturers who threw us back in a jungle of mindless violence and brutality don't know that is no longer acceptable in this world.
The only way to keep the jungle at bay is to fight for civilization. To say there are limits to behavior, there are things we WON'T do. Torture is one of those things, and those who have done these things must be punished so that the entire world can see that we are what we say we are, a bastion of justice, peace, law and order, not a nihilistic tribe of animals who only know the hardline, only know brutality and bestiality. Only deny their humanity when they violate someone elses. And this is the crux of the entire thing...we are all human, good, bad and indifferent, and we share this world as fragile things that are mortal, and fearing death because we don't know what is on the other side. Personally, I think this is it, there is no more than this...and that gives me peace, to know that I am the arbiter of my fate, and that decency and goodness feel like the right thing to do. Many who claim religion, clearly do not have more than just words to back it up...and that is as the criminal Bush has been, a paper cutout Christian, with no real understanding of the ethics and values inherent in those sets of beliefs. Sadly, he is just another weak man who has fallen prey to his own failings, and his own weakness. And so it is with the redoubtable Cheney...and all the rest.
This is a deeply painful time for America, but if this is pursued and the troughs cleaned out, America may once again be able to lift it's head without shame. But there is much to do before we sleep in this regard. Troubled sleep will be there for as long as those who have hearts continue to feel the terror that the previous President represented, and avowed. When his crimes have been laid bare, and when he has been revealed for what he is, the healing can begin....but not until then.
Can we still go after Kissinger?
Of course this is an ignorantio elenchus. The fact that useful information may occasionally be gleaned by torture in no way means that all or most information obtained thereby is valid, nor that valid information could not have been obtained by lawful means.
I do not believe it is a fact that useful information may occasionally be gleaned by torture, but even if I am wrong, TORTURE IS IMMORAL AND ILLEGAL, PURE AND SIMPLE. It is like saying occasionally murder can be useful; furthermore, what kind of message does this send to the people that capture our soldiers! We are no better than the terrorists if we condone torture. Cheney, you want transparency? You, the most egregiously, secret cover up guy since Nixon? I say lets have it ALL, so the American people can lock you away for good!
A. For 2-3 years, Cheney will tell the US how "WE" kept you safe.
B. 2011, early 2012, it will be exactly time for AQ to attack the US....
C. The GOP will drive their Hummers & Tanks by and reoccupy Pennsylvania Ave.
D. Gays, chavez, cuba, iran, pot-smokers, the sierra club & greenpeace will sigh w/ relief.
Cheney's bs is a set up for 9-11 part Two. The attackers will obviously have ties to Hezbollah, the armed militant wing of Iran.
Maybe Islam was peaceful once, but one billion militant fascists have a place where?
Sick puppy. Where do you make up your numbers/facts?
Maybe America was peaceful once but (fill in number here) lackeys for corporations building the largest cache of arms in the world, and taking on any region that has resources they covet, has a place where??
alank, America is the Land of the Free and our place is everywhere.
You question my numbers? Well there are approximately a billion who worship Allah.
After 9-11 I learned they were ALL Islamofascists. I learned this on Fox News from William Kristol, in Washington Post Editorials, from Larry King & Rachel Maddow too. PNAC and the AEI helped and now Sir I learn what to think from William Kristol's new incarnation, which spoke with Senator John McCain a couple of weeks ago re intensifying the Afgan campaign and initiating new ones.
It was a blow against Terrorism to kill a million Arabs in Iraq, cleanse Baghdad of most Sunni's, and disperse 6 million people to the winds.
But the terrorists probably had another million kids since then.
We gotta get busy. william kristol and Fox told me so.
respectfully, joe.
The Cardinal Richelieu of American politics is well on the way to braiding the legal rope that will hang him. What would be even better if winds up taking the Bush Six with him.
Arent these the same pricks who hounded Clinton for years over a headjob?
War criminals the lot of them.
Cheney, the law states that torture is a war crime and punishable up to the death penalty. It does not matter if results were obtained, it is illegal and you knew it going in. You and everyone involved, they know who they are, should surrender to the authorities and stand trial. If Obama is the leader he should be, He should standup and demonstrate his leadership and be seen to be counted in this matter. The second world war and subsequent Geneva conventions plus the Nurenburg trials were supposed to stop people like you, lets not allow the sacrfices of millions to go to waste! HANG EM HIGH!!
Cheney is a complete nutter. He's swimming in his cesspool and wants you to join him. Only let it just be the mainstream media because they are already full if shit.
P.S. We have come to believe that Senator Blanche Lincoln is Wal-Mart’s Employee of the Month
Of course torture works!
It may not provide real or true information, but it produces news stories, programs like "24", and sure as hell intimidates Congress and government officials -- works like a charm.
Yes, there is very good reason that it is called the :
G _ l o b a l
W _ a r
O _ F
T _ e r r o r
As it's a carefully orchestrated plan to create lots of global TERROR, not at all to prevent it.
Namaste
If Obama really thinks the U.S. is "...on the better side of history" then he is just an ordinary simple person who shouldn't be anywhere near that black house. And if he thinks that the U.S. has a viable future as the rogue nation that it is, then he is even more delusional. And if he thinks the CIA is exempt from punishment for all of their vile crimes, then he and they are going to be surprised to find out that impunity is not in their future.
So if there are memos which show the torture worked then it was OK to torture? Isn't that how a psychopath justifies what they do?
I n d u b i t a b l y _ s o.
See http://www.ponerology.com/ , the scientific study of how evil and politics mix ( red pill ).
Namaste
I would like to see the evidence of success of torture as Dick Cheney saw the success. Dick, take a photograph of the wet stain on your fly area and post it on You Tube for everyone to see.
I agree with Dick - for once - releasing the memos would let citizens and those who were interogated to bring charges against their tortures, and those who sanctioned terror.
Bring it on ...
I would imagine after being waterboarded a few dozen times, not to mention "stress" postures, ice rooms, beatings, etc., any of them would have pleaded guilty to eating their own mother, if it would just stop the pain, fear and misery.
The fact that the only things (we have been told) that attached to these tortured detainees are things we already knew about does little to sustain Cheney's claim that we extracted valuable information by its means.
For that matter, do we have any slightest evidence that the claims made of involvement in all the things alleged are true?"mohammed............after being interrogated, confessed to a list of incidents and plots that included the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre in New York, as well as a plot to attack Heathrow, Big Ben and Canary Wharf, the beheading of the US journalist Daniel Pearl, and the Bali bombing." It does sound a little as if he was reduced to the point of saying yes to anything presented to him, doesn't it?
The criminality of all involved in this frightful program can hardly be doubted.
Is Dick getting a little nervous?
Would be too bad if he had to spend his last days in prison. NOT!
Move on? Move on?? That's what was done with Nixon! When he was facing impeachment, he was allowed to resign with the understanding that he would be pardoned. This was because there is no pardon after an impeachment. That is forbidden under the Constitution. (Remember the Constitution?) When We the People protested this and demanded that Nixon face trial, Ford pardoned him and said "We must move on." We have and it has been downhill all the way.
What this did was let every two-bit crook and highbinder know that if he could get into the highest office in the land, he could do anything, destroy anything, steal anything and walk away Scot free.
Look at what has happened since then. Honor and ethics are dirty words and conflict of interest, which used to be the kiss of death, is now a job requirement. Theft of millions or a few billions is small change now. It doesn't get impressive anymore until it is in the trillions.
So, we rob, cheat, torture, steal, start still more wars of conquest, or even worse, wars just for the endless profit of the warmakers, no winning or conquest needed.
There are no consequences anymore, nobody is expected to take responsibility for their actions. If they steal enough, they are clever. If they are stupid and get caught, it is someone else's fault. Maybe they can be sued.
These are the role models for our kids today. Is it any wonder that there is so much crime and so many get rich quick schemes? "If the President can get away with it, and his successor pardons or just ignores what he did, why not me?"
I fear we are already down the tubes. So sad...
... lest we forget, in Ford's confirmation hearings, he said he would not pardon the president should he be impeached; I guess he used the technicality that Nixon resigned first to step around that one. May well be why Nixon resigned in the first place.
Waterboarded 183 times? As Jon Stewart surmised last night, maybe by the 90th time or so, he must have begun thinking "Nah, you guys aren't REALLY going to drown me..."
Hi,
I read here often and don't comment as usually someone states my view far more eloquently than I would.
On this thread though I must speak. Are people at Common Dreams here to find the way to peace through truth, awareness, and love?
It is easy to say let's arrest, try, and punish those responsible for the torture. As if making them guilty scapegoats for an entire nation that has known about our policy of torture for eight years (how much torture is less relevant than that there was any), and yet we could not find the way or means to stop it. Thereby are we all guilty, for enabling and abetting, or are none of us guilty? Does Cheney get to say, if I was wrong, how come reelected (or the election was close enough so no real questioning of the election results took place). Could he say he was just doing what people elected him to do?
As well let's not make Obama the scapegoat responsible for solving the crime and punishing the perpetrators, and blaming him if justice is not served.
Are we able to judge for certain that Obama has the power to go against the ruling class, or to judge whether he might be afraid of their power? How do we know what position he is in? Should we expect him to trust the American people to stand up with him?
"This shows that Mr. Obama has the mind of a war criminal, too. Remember he is talking about a crime-torture. Yet, he implies that torture is part of our ideals and values. This guy is twisted."
No, he was saying the opposite-- his statement meant that we must refrain from crimes like torture especially when it is hard to do so (because of our terror) yet that is precisely when we must hold on to our ideals of being a nation that does not engage in torture.
I do believe Mr. Obama is trying to work from a spiritual perspective. There should be investigations, and the truth needs to be told, but not for the purpose of scapegoating and revenge and placing guilt on a few. Rather, examination, admitting the truth, admitting error, apologizing and making reparations, and forgiveness is the only real path to peace and justice. It is not the same thing as condoning crime. It is about who has the right to judge, when either we are all guilty or none are guilty.
Well, then, Donnalou, ask for the release of all those in America's overcrowded and increasingly privatized prisons, some of whom may even have done some horrible deeds.
I can guarantee, however, that NONE -- not the worst among them -- in our prison system have been involved in the murder and maiming of hundreds of thousands of people, and lying to the public so that they would fund their maniacal mayhem and crony get-rich-quick scheme.
What do we, as a nation gain by NOT going after the Cheneys and Bushes? Some sort of peace of spirit?
On a practical level, had Bush and Cheney faced Impeachment Hearings, and were under the tv lights and public scrutiny of investigations, I doubt the criminal enterprise called the "Bailout" would have occurred as it did.
The very idea of NOT going after them only emboldens their criminal/bully mind-set. These are extremely sick people, Donnalou, not "misguided." Their moral universe (if they have one) is very different from ordinary decent folk. We've already seen what they are capable when given a chance ... They even engineered the stealing of the Presidency to do their deeds. Would they cut YOU some slack if you stole a loaf of bread for your family at the 7-11? Cheney shot his "buddy" while drun, then covered it up -- that's his SMALL stuff...
After all we have seen, the depth of depravity, the inhuman callousness about death and pain, shown by our highest leaders, whether it be in the Texas execution chamber, in New Orleans streets, or in Iraq, do you actually believe, if left alone, knowing that no investigation and punishment awaits, they would not in the next minute return to organizing their next assault on our Constitution?
The Nuremberg trials and the Geneva Conventions exist so that the horrors of WWII fascism would not be repeated. It is not a political option for America to ignore the laws we signed. Those precedents MUST be respected if dignity, honor, and civilization are to remain part of the human story.
"On a practical level, had Bush and Cheney faced Impeachment Hearings, and were under the tv lights and public scrutiny of investigations, I doubt the criminal enterprise called the "Bailout" would have occurred as it did."
I agree with you that impeachment hearings were called for and would have been the right thing to do. But they didn't happen.
"The very idea of NOT going after them only emboldens their criminal/bully mind-set. These are extremely sick people, Donnalou, not "misguided." Their moral universe (if they have one) is very different from ordinary decent folk. We've already seen what they are capable when given a chance ... They even engineered the stealing of the Presidency to do their deeds. Would they cut YOU some slack if you stole a loaf of bread for your family at the 7-11? Cheney shot his "buddy" while drun, then covered it up -- that's his SMALL stuff..."
Being aware of all this, I again ask that you consider all that CAUSES such sickness which is the EFFECT. We are talking about NATIONAL sickness. Once we have become aware of the source of this sickness, we can then take the steps to heal and correct our ongoing errors.
"After all we have seen, the depth of depravity, the inhuman callousness about death and pain, shown by our highest leaders, whether it be in the Texas execution chamber, in New Orleans streets, or in Iraq, do you actually believe, if left alone, knowing that no investigation and punishment awaits, they would not in the next minute return to organizing their next assault on our Constitution?"
As you know I have called for investigations and as well for the American people to demand and follow through that these be thorough.
"The Nuremberg trials and the Geneva Conventions exist so that the horrors of WWII fascism would not be repeated. It is not a political option for America to ignore the laws we signed. Those precedents MUST be respected if dignity, honor, and civilization are to remain part of the human story."
Yet these precedents have done nothing to end the horrors, have they? Let's not be tempted once again to hang blame on the necks of individuals so that some time down the road, by our not examining rather ourselves and our nation's part, hell repeats. I'm not asking we ignore the truth and ignore laws, I'm asking that we uphold the truth and God's laws.
I'm asking people to keep an open mind that what seems obvious might not be the whole true picture.
Darth Viper is still in charge because 100 million USans voted in 2008 to maintain the status quo.
Cheney is a motherfucker, I would like to see him hanging by his ankles with his throat cut just like the pig he is. I am surprised that prick has got the balls to open his fucking mouth! Arrest the bastard for God's sake!
Does Cheney realize he no longer in charge? He's just a senior citizen waiting to kick the bucket.
Great! Let Sociopath # 1 (Bush is # 2) be "hoist on his own petard"!
I bet raping andd killing their children in front of the detainees would ALSO produce great intelligence....
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Obama..looking forward is fine..until someone stabs you in the back
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
It doesn't matter if it succeeded or not. All sorts of heinous and wicked practices are "successful", from getting rich by running brothels to lying in order to persuade people the invasion and occupation of another country is justified. What matters is whether or not a nation accepts an atrocity is atrocious or excuses it as expedient. If the latter, that nation has revealed itself to be corrupt, to be without conscience and decency. That's Cheyney's America, and he has plenty of supporters. What of those who say, "No!" to this? Will they prevail, or will they be overwhelmed?
Why is this man still AT LARGE?
Simply because the psychopathic fascist state corporapist controlled government ( pathocracy ) :
LOVES his $tyle
CHERISHE$ his result$
ADORE$ his child-like smirk
PROTECTS his A$$'ets
"Mohammed had admitted to involvement in terrorist actions before his capture but, after being interrogated, confessed to a list of incidents and plots that included the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre in New York, as well as a plot to attack Heathrow, Big Ben and Canary Wharf, the beheading of the US journalist Daniel Pearl, and the Bali bombing."
He also was going to pop all the noses off the Presidents on Mt. Rushmore, release a giant herd of ostriches in Disneyland, topple those dinosaurs near Palm Springs, unravel the world's largest ball of twine in Kansas, and poison the drinking water of Texas with a serum to turn everybody gay.
However he did not reveal the location of Osama bin Laden or give any iota of a clue as to how to find him, as he was not in the position to know such information, being Al Qaeda's Johnny on the Spot Mastermind of Everything.
First we had The Dickless One running the decoy military flight ops on 9-11. Then recently, the revelations of his overseeing a CIA group for assassinations abroad. Now this. You can bet he and Rumsfeld cooked up and gave the orders to the military and other agencies for torture.
The Bush admin. hung Saddam Hussein by the neck. The American people should do the same to them for high treason, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.
PS: I voted for President Obama and am proud on a very visceral level that an African-American has been finally elected to POTUS. That being said I am genuinely angered that the President is actually giving folk a pass on this. Every "swinging Richard" who participated at any level ought to be rad their rights and investigated. And those found liable to be tried in court of law ought to be so. Along the way each of these persons had to swear and oath to uphold the US Constitution...
For your consideration: (extract from- http://www.crisispapers.org/texts/UCMJ.htm)
"..."I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
During the Iran-Contra hearings of 1987, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, a decorated World War II veteran and hero, told Lt. Col. Oliver North that North was breaking his oath when he blindly followed the commands of Ronald Reagan. As Inouye stated, "The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the Lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, 'Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.' This principle was considered so important that we-we, the government of the United States, proposed that it be internationally applied in the Nuremberg trials." (Bill Moyers, "The Secret Government", Seven Locks Press; also in the PBS 1987 documentary, "The Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis")
Senator Inouye was referring to the Nuremberg trials in the post WW II era, when the U.S. tried Nazi war criminals and did not allow them to use the reason or excuse that they were only "following orders" as a defense for their war crimes which resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent men, women, and children. "In 1953, the Department of Defense adopted the principles of the Nuremberg Code as official policy" of the United States. (Hasting Center Report, March-April 1991"
Also see: UN Convention Against Torture http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html
Ok! I got it. If a "technique" works no matter that technique was previously adjudicated as unlawful then it's ok. Got it. Exploit the psychological weaknesses, phobias, etc and get some usable intelligence that you can claim saves lives, the means is justified. Got it. As an exercise in the purely hypothetical; Would Chaney then say that raping a man's wife, daughter, mother, grandmother so that the man witnessed the rape and that resulted in actionable intelligence is acceptable? What about simulating the beheading of his infant child? What about raping the man himself? As long as the "interrogator" doesn't intend to inflict pain or suffering then everything short of amputation or murder itself is acceptable. Now how do we deal with out enemies after we defeat them and our soldiers make these kinds of claims? As long as the enemy claims that they did not intend to inflict pain and suffering, and as long as medical personnel are present that is in fact the precedent we claim, then we can't hold out enemy in violation of any of the Geneva conventions against torture. Yep, I got! As a 12 year veteran of the Cold War US Army I am just a little confused as to how it was I understood our Constitution, The Law of Land Warfare, and the Geneva Conventions. The whole time I teaching my soldiers that those kinds of things were wrong and illegal on their face, I should have been telling them it was only illegal if it wasn't effective and-or they intended to cause pain and suffering! Wow!
"No one is above the law. It's time to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate and prosecute the architects of the Bush-era torture program."
Moveon.org is mounting a petition to Holder seeking 200,000 signatures.
Some poster here do the drubbing on the group, but I would submit such an effort certainly overrides the unavoidable 'strange bedfellows' that the current political climate raises.
http://pol.moveon.org/torture/
Who says traitors can't be funny?
Darth Cheney has earned a Vulcan Mind Melt - just like Ariel Sharon.
"Darth Cheney has earned a Vulcan Mind Melt - just like Ariel Sharon."
LMFAO!
I hesitate to ask: Is that done with satellites by any chance?
Gulmp!
That's how deep brain tumors are removed you know: intersecting low power lasers. Where they converge: you get tissue melting. Just ask CIA director William Casey.... ooops, sorry..... you can't.... he mysteriously melted right before he was supposed to testify about Iran-Contra.
This sounds like a job for the "cigarette smoking man" on the X-Files......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Casey
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
I imagine Sharon's body must be doing some kind of melting too, or did they liposuction all of that fat off of him?
Darth chenney, is as funny to me as, what happens after a
35 mm antiaircraft round is targeted upon an innocent child's face
Namaste
Every time I hear or see that line about "looking forward" I get the same queasy sick feeling in my gut I would get every time I heard Bush's voice or read what he said. It's the same thing I feel when I know anybody is outright LYING, much more intense when it involves corruption, torture, murder, etc. on a national/international level. And then I feel the rage and would love to join that with the energy or others who feel the same. Obama challenged us to make him accountable. Perhaps he counted on the disunity of those who actually wanted to do so or even a lack of conviction or inspiration to act in anyone who knows damn well (as I suspect Obama also does) that criminal offenses that escape legal accountability are most certain to be repeated.
I agree that unless there is a definitive moment of massive unified opposition to the policy of letting the torturers slide this time because they "acted in good faith" or that they will "learn" from their "mistakes". I don't care as much about individual employees of the CIA as I do about those who created and continue to defend the policy of torture as an effective means of interrogating prisoners and gathering valuable information. Bush, Cheney, et al are sadistic, power mad psychopathic criminals and will continue to do and defend what they are not "arrested" for, and surely there are others like them who are willing to get in on the action if there is some shred of legal rationalization for it, no matter how far-fetched, and little or no chance of undesirable consequences for their actions.
How do we amass the energy of outrage that exists over torture and other official crimes, increase awareness to draw even larger numbers to the effort and direct them into a highly visible, non-dismissible (even relatively large one-day Marches on Washington have become passe and easily dismissable) public action that forces the constitution to be enforced as the president so far has refused to do?
I lack the organizing skills to put one together, but if someone calls a (preferably non-violent but strongly assertive) revolution or even an imaginative, inspiring, original, attention-warranting demonstration (like Camp Casey or the "Orange Revolution" in the Ukraine, for instance) and specifies a time, a place and an action to be carried out, I'm there!
Remember:
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
We've ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia!
We've got MORE of whatever shortages we are enduring, as the government predicted.
We are more financially stable than we have EVER been, ask any government supported billionaire.
Reread Orwell's "1984," London's "The Iron Heel," Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here."
It already has!
You are right it is scary, with many more similarities to today.
His mouth opened, therefore, he lied! (But, of course, when no such memos are forthcoming it will be a liberal cover-up according to FOX.) Nice Script,Karl!
The super-rich are immune to justice.
Perhaps more accurately "The super-rich" are immune from _ S H A M E _, after having taken their psychopathetic "shots" at US.
Perhaps more accurately "The super-rich" are immunized from _ P R O S E C U T I O N _, after having paying off their legislative lackeys and industrial strength DA cleaners.
Perhaps more accurately "The super-rich" are going to find _ J U S T I C E _, because that is a force of nature outside of HUMAN control.
Namaste
The most idiotic suggestion I’ve ever heard from the party of criminally insane animals, the Republican Party. Everyone knows torture does not provide reliable information. It only creates hate, fear and terror (which is all the republican party stands for, OK greed should be added). All the animals that used torture and all that ordered torture should be put to death for their vile, foul, inhumane treatment. All civilized societies have laws against these torture techniques the bush administration ordered, since 1215.
Besides did they think thru torture they would get to the truth of 9/11, these individuals did not know the bush administration ordered and setup the 9/11 attackes?
Holder should move on prosecution of the administration -- lawyers and all -
who violated our laws -- whether by legal distortion or undermining of law --
and the conspiracy involving the President/VP and their hirelings.
American public wants action on this -- but our Congress is not moving because . . . ??? Obama should stand aside and let Congress and Holder
move on these criminals.
And thanks to all who continue to push for prosecution!
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
The Fascist Repugs keep rationalizing and making excuses for torture. I was watching C-Span this morning and they had some Repug Congressman from Iowa and folks I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP! To paraphrase: He said torture was okay and not illegal because it was not done in the Western Hemisphere! So according to that asinine logic, as long we fly the suspects out of the Western Hemisphere, torture is humane. Please! These corrupt, old men, like him and Cheney are traitors to America and they have to go away and the sooner the better.
Cheney is sabotaging Barack Obama's efforts for the ruling class to sweep US government use of torture back under the rug. What a total meat loaf!
Obama wants to keep the tortures covert and these Republican dunces want it out in the open and overt! See, Virginia, there is a big difference between the two parties.
Good spot, yes Cheney and Obama make a good tag team. In the official press they go at it, meanwhile Guantanamo is not covert enough so the abductees are being flown from all over the world to the even more remote Bagram
-agents fearful of prosecution
Boooo, Hooooo, so sad! What a shame these "dedicated professionals" as Obama calls them were not more concerned about breaking the law before they started murdering and tortuing their prisoners.
The truth of this matter is that Dick Cheney not only knew about the false flag orchestrated event we call 9/11 but he was it's principle architect, all evidence shows.
These people we had taken off the street many just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time were in horrible conditions in custody, it is beyond belief that this treasonous criminal scum Cheney is trying to further his cover up of 9/11 by saying that the torture techniques saved America. When in fact the torture techniques were designed to solicit false confessions as part of the cover up of 9/11.
What kind of super terrorist organization wouldn't be able to change it's procedures and cover things up after just a week of having someone taken into custody? These people were tortured for years! It is not at all the kind of practice you would do to counter a major criminal organization. You would keep things secret whilst you go about infiltrating the organization -- don't publicly arrest people!! Let them feel free, gain their confidences, so you can find out exactly what they are doing in real time, this is highly valuable and it is the way to bring them to justice.
Torture produces no valid results. This is just another attempt by the anti-American terrorist criminal Dick Cheney to cover up his horrendous crimes.
Yes,
and furthermore, there is not an iota of truth in ANY advantage of extracting misleading and questionable "intelligence" information ONLY through torture,
especially when compared to and while IGNORING mountains of conventionally obtained ( real ) "intelligence", that can and was independently validated multitudinously times -- substantially in advance knowledge of our 'oh too mysterious' _ 9 _ ! _ ! _ false flag event.
The __ ƒ ⊃ © k i n g __ " bomb clock " of _ 9 _ ! _ ! _ was ticking for years
… and was actually well foreshadowed …
BUT we are told with feigned unnoticed disinterest, that it was decided to have been unreliable !
while we are told that TORTURE is mandated to solve so many ticking " bomb clocks " that have only seconds before the terrorist detonate them -- and that all of our attention needs to be applied to _ r a p i d l y _pulling finger nails off, to prevent eminent disaster.
_ U R G E N C Y _
is formed from the extreme and exigent conditions of a real and dire combination of an IMMEDIATE, compelling, and time-pressed jeopardy of a HIGH PRIORITY, critical, and valuable item.
We are being had.
If it's all so urgent,
… why not do the serious and detailed ( actually successful ) intelligence gathering efforts
like those that were clearly made MONTHS _ p r i o r _ to _ 9 _ ! _ ! _ ?
How is it that nominal intelligence is supposed to have failed or been misinterpreted, and thereby WE had to abandoned it
…while spurious and pre-ordained to be UNRELIABLE flimsy torture confessions
are supposed and expected to succeed ( so we need more, quickly now ) ?
What is reliably known is that …
This stinks worse than the combined wicked
smirks of the dickster and bushwacker !
Namaste
Like OJ Simpson, Cheney doesn't and apparently can't grasp the horror of what he has done. We who oppose torture in the sense that NOTHING justifies its use are not interested in his statistics about how 'well' it has worked. We are interested in
seeing torture-supporters and their distorted value systems culled from positions of power and influence and brought to account for crimes against mankind.
Pippilin: Good point. Even if it was true like Cheney lied about, that torture gets results, I would be against it.
"What makes the United States special and what makes you special is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it's hard, not just when it's easy, even when we are afraid and under threat, not just when its expedient to do so.
"So yes, you've got a harder job and so do I, and that's OK. And over the long term, that is why I believe we will defeat our enemies, because we're on the better side of history." Mr. Obama to the CIA.
This shows that Mr. Obama has the mind of a war criminal, too. Remember he is talking about a crime-torture. Yet, he implies that torture is part of our ideals and values. This guy is twisted.
What now? The American people have to remove this cancer through impeachment or become culpable in these crimes.
I'm sure Cheney has personal copies of all the memos. So go ahead and release them, you Dick.
Jarhead
I have known all along that Cheney was an idiot. The sadistic bastard really believes this. Why dont that piece of manure heart he has flunk out? The sissy ass draft dodger has no say so anymore. Who appointed him president of I want? George a deserter Bush, another coward. Eight years of that bunch of dictators was enough, now shut the hell up.
Great idea dick! Lets promote the wonderful success that can be gained by torture! Every police station and church basement should have a torture room. It's cheap and fun! Will surely save lots of money for the justice system, not the least because many of the interrogated will die during their torture.
This turd in a suit has set back by decades all the work against torture worldwide.
Thanks amerika.
Okay Dick, if torture works, let's torture you into confessing that you and Dubya had an affair.
Cheney needs to go down. He is part of the FOX team to incite the right wing rabble. Mr. President arrest him now!
Cheney should be waterboarded for 100 times to get the truth out of him for a change. He says it produces good results and is not torture anyway, so that should work ok. We could call him an enemy combatant to make it legal and if that procedure doesn`t work, Egypt might help us out. It is about time that sick jerk that loves killing and torture shuts up and goes away. He is a black mark on our country and has fouled up a lot of peoples minds with his rotten actions.
Why does anyone even bother listening to this right wing hack????
Right on, stone. There should be no hesitation about indicting him for his illegal and disgraceful acts.
Darth Vader knows that his challege to reveal the "good" information obtained through torture cannot be met for reasons of security. Even if that was possible, it is beside the point because we just do not torture for any reason! It's a game on his part that should be brought to an end by putting him to trial.
Cheney is playing games here, he is floating the idea torture was useful while helping the Obama admin. covering his, and other asses inside the Bush admin. Why do I have this nagging feeling that, if the Bush admin. had received anything noteworthy in the results, this info would have been trumpeted all over the media. This, from an outfit who outed a CIA officer purely for political reasons. I am betting the use of torture did NOT reveal any meaningful intel.
The thing is, even if there were any 'meaningful' intel, you could not trust it because a person under torture will say anything to stop the torture. So if Cheney could point to some information that turns out to be true long after the fact, what value could it have been?
Cheney doesn't even mention the immorality of torture. It's like Hitler trying to justify the final solution by claiming it helped bring Germany out of the depression, or Stalin justifying the slaughter of millions of peasants by claiming it helped win the war. Cheney is right up there with the aforementioned duo, and it's so obvious it's scary.
Yes, reliable or meaningful intelligence is supposed to be the entire focus, but it is NOT in the least.
As I explained in part above at time stamp
{ powerfully_true April 21st, 2009 3:54 pm }
The logic breaks down because old fashioned slow and systematic gathering of data, as well as non-torture based interviewing -- have long established successful histories.
What is being hid in plain sight is that pre-_ 9 _ 1 _ ! _ intelligence did work VERY successfully in illuminating the possible threats.
The problem was that the _ 9 _ 1 _ ! intelligence was mis-interpreted ( and denigrated ), which can happened either on purpose or because of the unreliability of the data. Which is why multiple independent means are systematically compared, with both explicit and circumstantial data, and a matrix of possible theories of motives and opportunity.
A s k _ y o u r s e l f,
why would more reliable data be thrown out
while less reliable and usually meaningless data was given higher priority ?
Namaste
"What is being hid in plain sight is that pre-_ 9 _ 1 _ ! _ intelligence did work VERY successfully in illuminating the possible threats."
So true. The Bush administration really screwed the pooch in allowing 9/11 to occur. That administration didn't even do the job it was supposed to do and claims it did: perhaps that's one reason why Cheyenne is driveling on about the CIA Memos. Cheney is in a tight spot, and he's too arogant to realize it. Lets see if he gets caught in his own web. Hope so.
You are partial correct in saying " … really screwed the pooch in allowing 9/11 to occur"
There is not a scintilla of doubt that the events of that September day were more than allowed to occur, they were carefully orchestrated, and neatly packaged for public consumption ( and stampeding ) = PSYOPS + propaganda.
The absolutely unambivalent scientific proof is now found in the nanoscoptic residues of WTC demolition dusts, that still today contain active explosives as powerful as dynamite. Carefully scrutinized and characterized nano-thermite explosives leave no doubt as to who was the agent of collapse of the WTC collapses, as only the USA military "contractors" have access to anything as technologically sophisticated and extremely challenging to produce ( even today ~ 8 years later ).
This aspect is 100% supported by the impossibility of gravity alone ( with a couple of air planes ) causing the destruction observed -- there MUST have been a "hidden" source of great explosive energy, to pulverize the concrete, eliminate the matrix of steel under-structure, that then collapsed the humongous buildings down to the ground at free fall speeds through the densest and strongest portion of the structure.
We must demand a thorough and complete investigation of causality,
as the previous rubber stamping of what they wanted us to believe happened
-- is now demonstrably false --
Namaste
I dunno, maybe because CIA head George Tenet was compromised by the bush crime family? Tenet, at the monkey's request, cherry picked data that supported the Commander-in-Chimp's already arrived at conclusion that Iraq must be attacked (according to 60 Minutes aired a year ago.)
Ugly, Ugly history. We need to sacrifice both the Bush and Cheney tribes on a televised Watergate Trial to try and redeem ourselves in the eyes of the world.
Or this empire is doomed just like the Romans and Spanish and British who ruled the Earth by torture.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
The prosecution of Dick Cheney for war crimes and corruption must be an immediate priority. He openly violates American law and International law with a dangerous sense of entitlement. He must be confronted, engaged, and put down. His enablers must be challenged and justice dispensed. The need to end Fascism in America is immediate and great and the time is now.
Fascism in America is very entrenched. That a person like Dick Cheney could ever be vice president, much less the power behind the throne, shows how entrenched it is. Obama must be careful or he won't survive. I'm divided: half of the time I think Obama is a puppet of the powers that be, the other half I'm convinced that he's a very smart cookie, doing all he can given the circumstances. Either way, I know an intelligent man when I see one. Also, I realize that there is only so much one man can do, no matter how pressing the priorities. I hope his heart is in the right place, and I wish him the best of luck.
and obama, it's time for you to grow a set of balls and stop sermonizing us on "looking forward." you've got unfinished business to take care of.
Yes, Obama does need to smack Cheney down, tell him to sit down and shut up while he fixes this mess.
Exactly. Until some of these fascist bastards are made to do hard time the same old crap will continue. If Nixon had done a few years in the slammer, a lot of things would have been different since that time. Unless Obama allows investigation and prosecution to proceed, he is an accessory after the fact, leaving himself open for investigation and prosecution by the next "less forward looking" president.
cheney, you are the most vile, insipid, arrogant piece of shit to ever walk this planet, in my lifetime. and certainly, ranking way up on the list in the history of mankind. you do not deserve to breathe the same air as the rest of humanity, nor are you worthy of any sort of praise or respect. the simple fact that you have to blow your horn with sean hannity says enough.
"i've now formally asked the cia to take steps..." yeah, right, what business is the cia's to you anymore? care to share that with us? and why isn't your sock puppet president (you remember that other half of your psychopathic eight years, don't you) speaking instead of you?
now that you're finally seeing the dangling noose and feeling the hairs on your ass begin to singe, you're bringing out yet one more of your mind-fuck games, and the stupid american sheople who supported you and your cohorts will only be too glad to continue bringing this country down.
you, you sorry prick, are not worthy of any sort of salvation.
All true. If there is a case for pure evil, it's Cheney. Not only that, he is one of the most arrogant men i've ever seen. If he would keep his big mouth shut his evil deeds would probably fade into memory, but he's not going to do that. I hope the mouth stays open--then we might have a chance at seeing him pay for his unspeakable crimes.
He would have made a good Nazi, don't you think?
LOL! That is so true. He's a Nazi without the intelligence.
Would have? He IS a good Nazi.
Funny how people from the intelligence community say torture was a failure... but then, you can never believe anything Cheney says, anyway.
Oh he would have competed for the top Nazi post--and probably gotten it.
Someone needs to tell Dick that he's really missed the point of this whole subject.
q
Does Cheney already fear a prosecution in his future? Perhaps outside the USA?
Anyhow, the idea that "the end justifies the means" is, or ought to be, totally discredited -- particularly when the means are so morally unjust. When I learned that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times, it makes no difference who he is or what he's accused of doing; I can't be proud of being an American any more.
Not until this country utterly repudiates this villainy and makes those who promoted it and practiced it pay heavily for their wickedness -- all the way to the top (i.e., the White House).
Rachel Maddow had a breaking story last evening, saying that Holder may consider prosecution. Have not heard anything since. MASS PROTEST may be the only way to initiate real change in this country...passive or aggressive...whatever it takes. How can we continue to live under this repressive criminality? Something is seriously assunder and only the general populace can demand change.
Doublespeak...the POLICE STATES CONTINUES ...black is white...wrong is right....evil is good.....we are screwed.
Don't forget war is peace and debt is wealth.
Actually, the police state would be a great idea, if....IF, we could use it on the police as well as have them use it on us.
To be explicit, anybody for waterboarding Cheney until he tells us what he knows about 9/11?
Just kidding, ha ha! Of course everybody in the world knows people of his ilk are clearly above the law and answer to no one but their bird cage owners: the global bankers who recently conned us out of -- how much is it now, $12 trillion?
It's just another day in sillyConValley();
www.sillyConValley.net
Eyes front, Minds closed, March !
M I N D S _ are much like _ p a r a c h u t e s _, which only effectively function when
C o m p l e t e l y
O P E N
Release ALL the Bush-Cheney secret memos to the Hague for war crimes prosecution!