On January 31 of this year, Keith Olbermann donned his most serious face and most indignant voice tone to rail against George Bush for supporting telecom immunity and revisions to FISA. In a 10-minute "Special Comment," the MSNBC star condemned Bush for wanting to "retroactively immunize corporate criminals," and said that telecom immnity is "an ex post facto law, which would clear the phone giants from responsibility for their systematic, aggressive and blatant collaboration with [Bush's] illegal and unjustified spying on Americans under this flimsy guise of looking for any terrorists who are stupid enough to make a collect call or send a mass email."
Olbermann added that telecom amnesty was a "shameless, breathless, literally textbook example of Fascism -- the merged efforts of government and corporations that answer to no government." Noting the numerous telecom lobbyists connected to the Bush administration, Olbermann said:
This is no longer just a farce in which protecting telecoms is dressed up as protecting us from terrorists conference cells. Now it begins to look like the bureaucrats of the Third Reich, trying to protect the Krupp family, the industrial giants, re-writing the laws of Germany for their benefit.
Olbermann closed by scoffing at the idea that telecom amnesty or revisions to FISA were necessary to help National Security:
There is not a choice of protecting the telecoms from prosecution or protecting the people from terrorism, Sir. This is a choice of protecting the telecoms from prosecution or pretending to protect the people from terrorists. Sorry, Mr. Bush, the eavesdropping provisions of FISA have obviously had no impact on counter-terrorism, and there is no current or perceived terrorist threat the thwarting of which could hinge on an email or phone call that is going through Room 641 of AT&T in San Francisco.
Strong and righteous words indeed. But that was five whole months ago, when George Bush was urging enactment of a law with retroactive immunity and a lessening of FISA protections. Now that Barack Obama supports a law that does the same thing -- and now that Obama justifies that support by claiming that this bill is necessary to keep us Safe from the Terrorists -- everything has changed.
Last night, Olbermann invited Newsweek's Jonathan Alter onto his show to discuss Obama's support for the FISA and telecom amnesty bill (video of the segment is here). There wasn't a syllable uttered about "immunizing corporate criminals" or "textbook examples of Fascism" or the Third Reich. There wasn't a word of rational criticism of the bill either. Instead, the two media stars jointly hailed Obama's bravery and strength -- as evidenced by his "standing up to the left" in order to support this important centrist FISA compromise:
OLBERMANN: Asked by "Rolling Stone" publisher, Jann Wenner, about how Democrats have cowered in the wake of past Republican attacks, Senator Obama responding, quote, "Yeah, I don't do cowering." That's evident today in at least three issues . . .
Senator Obama also refusing to cower even to the left on the subject of warrantless wiretapping. He's planning to vote for the FISA compromise legislation, putting him at odds with members of his own party . . . But first, it's time to bring in our own Jonathan Alter, also, of course, senior editor of "Newsweek" magazine.
Good evening, Jon.
JONATHAN ALTER, NEWSWEEK: Hi, Keith.
OLBERMANN: "Yeah, I don't do cowering." This is not just the man, but the campaign?
ALTER: Yes. This is part of the message that is consistent across the last couple weeks and it comes down to one word -- strength. The United States is not going to elect a president that perceives to be as weak. You look weak if you're flip-flopping. You look weak if you're not taking actions that seem to be securing the United States against terrorists. And you look weak if you don't fight back against your political adversaries.
OLBERMANN: But this cuts, I mean, this terminology cuts in more than one direction here. Not cowering to Republicans is one thing in the Democratic, recent Democratic history, it's a thing that I think anybody who has a "D" near their name cheers, but not cowering to the left, not going along with the conventional, the new conventional thinking on the FISA bill, that's something altogether different, isn't it?
ALTER: Yes. I don't really think it is. It was only a matter of time before the left was disappointed in Barack Obama, at least in a limited way. No politician is ever going to do everything that somebody likes.
And I think some folks in the netroots in particular on this FISA bill who are, you know, pulling their hair out over this, they have to realize, he's always been a politician, he'll always be a politician, and politics is the art of the possible. And he's a legislator. He knows that you can't always get everything that you want in a bill, even if he personally believes that the immunity for Telcoms is a bad idea. The larger idea of the bill was important.
And I actually think one of the big points, Keith, that hasn't been made about this bill is that currently, as of last August, since last August, we've been operating in an unconstitutional environment, clear violation of the Fourth Amendment.
So, there was tremendous urgency to get the FISA court back into the game. And does this bill do it imperfectly? Yes. But it does do it and it restores the Constitution, which is a point that's not getting made very much.
Leave aside the fact that Jonathan Alter, desperate to defend Obama, doesn't have the slightest idea of what he's talking about. How can a bill which increases the President's authority to eavesdrop with no warrants over the current FISA law possibly be described as a restoration of the Fourth Amendment? That would be like describing a new law banning anti-war speech as a restoration of the First Amendment.
As Jim Dempsey and Marty Lederman both note, not even the nation's most foremost FISA experts really know the full extent to which this bill allows new warrantless spying. Obviously, Jonathan Alter has no idea what he's saying, but nonetheless decrees that this bill -- now that Obama supports it -- restores the Fourth Amendment. Those are the Orwellian lengths to which people like Olbermann and Alter are apparently willing to go in order to offer their blind devotion to Barack Obama.
Moreover, Alter's own explanation is self-contradictory. In the course of praising Obama's FISA stance, he says that a politician looks "weak if you're flip-flopping" and "you look weak if you don't fight back against your political adversaries." But that's exactly what Obama is doing here -- completely reversing himself on telecom amnesty and warrantless eavesdropping, all in order to give the right-wing of the GOP everything it wants on national security issues in order to avoid a fight. By Alter's own reasoning, what Obama's doing is "weak" in the extreme, yet Alter bizarrely praises Obama for showing "strength."
All of the decades-old, conventional Beltway mythologies are trotted out here to praise Obama. Democrats move to the "center" by embracing hard-core right-wing policies. Democrats will look "weak" unless they turn themselves into Republican clones on national security. A President becomes "strong" when he tramples on the Constitution and the rule of law in the name of keeping us safe. Democrats must embrace the Right and repudiate the base of their own party, and they must support Dick Cheney's policies while "standing up to the ACLU."
That's just the garden-variety New Republic Syndrome I wrote about earlier this week. That's the mentality that led large numbers of Democrats to vote for the attack on Iraq, and then ignore and/or enable the whole stable of Bush's lawlessness and other radical policies ("that's how we'll avoid looking weak and liberal"). Those Move-to-the-Center cliches just tumble reflexively out of the mouths of every standard Beltway establishment pundit.
What's much more notable is Olbermann's full-scale reversal on how he talks about these measures now that Obama -- rather than George Bush -- supports them. On an almost nightly basis, Olbermann mocks Congressional Democrats as being weak and complicit for failing to stand up to Bush lawbreaking; now that Obama does it, it's proof that Obama won't "cower." Grave warning on Olbermann's show that telecom amnesty and FISA revisions were hallmarks of Bush Fascism instantaneously transformed into a celebration that Obama, by supporting the same things, was leading a courageous, centrist crusade in defense of our Constitution.
Is that really what anyone wants -- transferring blind devotion from George Bush to Barack Obama? Are we hoping for a Fox News for Obama, that glorifies everything he says and whitewashes everything he does? Compare what Russ Feingold said in an interview yesterday about the Democrats' support for the FISA bill to Olbermann's absurd effort to depict Obama as courageous for supporting it:
It's the latest chapter of running for cover when the Administration tries to intimidate Democrats on national security issues. It's the most embarrassing failure of the Democrats I've seen since 2006, other than the failure to vote to end the Iraq War. . . . It's letting George Bush and Dick Cheney have their way even though they're that unpopular and on their way out. It's really incredible.
It isn't that difficult to keep the following two thoughts in one's head at the same time -- though it seems to be for many people:
(1) What Barack Obama is doing on Issue X is wrong, indefensible and worthy of extreme criticism;
(2) I support Barack Obama for President because he's a better choice than John McCain.
As but one example, John Cole was a vehement supporter of Barack Obama throughout the primary. He viciously criticized Hillary Clinton on a regular basis and raised tens of thousands of dollars for Obama's campaign through his blog. But this week alone, Cole lambasted Obama for what he called Obama's "total collapse and a rapid abandonment of principle" regarding FISA and pronounced as a "pathetic performance" Obama's refusal to be photographed anywhere near Muslims or to meet with Muslim leaders. Despite that, just yesterday, Cole said:
No, I don't have buyers remorse. Yes, he still is better than Hillary or McCain. No, I am not disillusioned (I never thought he was a flaming liberal in the first place). I am, however, disgusted, and I will caution the Obama campaign that "better than McCain" is not much of a rallying cry. We all remember how "anything is better than Bush" turned out in 2004.
That's called being a rational adult who refuses to relinquish one's intellectual honesty, integrity, and political principles in order to march lockstep behind a political leader. Those who think that Barack Obama should not be criticized no matter how wrong he is -- or those who justify anything that he does no matter how craven and unjustifiable, including things that they viciously criticized when done by Dick Cheney or Harry Reid -- are no different, and no better, than those who treated George Bush with similar uncritical reverence in 2003 and 2004.
The real danger is that those who defend Obama the Candidate no matter what he does are likely to defend Obama the President no matter what he does, too. If we learn in 2009 that Obama has invoked his claimed Article II powers to spy on Americans outside of even the new FISA law, are we going to hear from certain factions that he was justified in doing so to protect us; how it's a good, shrewd move to show he's a centrist and keep his approval ratings high so he can do all the Good things he wants to do for us; how it's different when Obama does it because we can trust him? It certainly looks that way. Those who spent the last five years mauling Bush for "shredding the Constitution" and approving of lawbreaking -- only to then praise Obama for supporting a bill that endorses and protects all of that -- are displaying exactly the type of blind reverence that is more dangerous than any one political leader could ever be.
* * * * *
Today's Wall St. Journal has an article on the new Strange Bedfellows coalition and the campaign to punish and remove from office selected members of Congress who support civil-liberties-destroying measures such as the current FISA bill (a campaign I first announced here). The abstract of the WSJ article is here, and the full text can be read by clicking on the link on this page [link fixed]. The details for the "money bomb" the article describes will be disclosed very shortly. Yesterday, Jane Hamsher recorded a Bloggingheads session with former Rep. and current third-party presidential candidate Bob Barr (who Republicans are petrified will destroy McCain's chances) and discussed with him the ideologically diverse efforts to battle against the political establishment's assault on core constitutional liberties. For now, contributions to the campaign -- which now has more than $320,000 -- can be made here.
UPDATE: Comedy Central's Indecision 2008 blog discusses Obama's FISA stance here.
Glenn Greenwald was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York. He is the author of the New York Times Bestselling book "How Would a Patriot Act?," a critique of the Bush administration's use of executive power, released in May 2006. His second book, "A Tragic Legacy", examines the Bush legacy.
© Salon.com
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76 Comments so far
Show AllKeithO of MSMBC is no different than BillO of Fox except one is to the Left and the other is to the Right. I lean towards Obama but I wish KeithO would carry Obama's water.
You are exactly right Jlees. As I told some of these people before, it is ok to have a peaceful protest at your neighborhood nuclear power station, but not to cause a reactor core meltdown! The primaries are over and we have our choice, which is far and away better than "Insane Grampy McSame"!
I have to say, I think this has unfortunately and inaccurately judged Olbermann's position on FISA: him saying Obama didn't "cower to the left" has nothing to do with his necessary agreement on the issue-indeed, he's spoken against it (not the least with another Special Comment)-but rather using Obama's own phrase to put into context Obama's ostensible position with regards to pressure from either the left or the right.
Nowhere has Olbermann decided or said he is suddenly in lockstep with Obama's (distorted) position.
And, would that Obama would realize only those on the hard left or hard right seem to passionately voice any opinion on this subject, and instead stand firm on what's right: right in line with the special comment Greenwald posted from Olbermann at the beginning of his unfortunate article; but either way, there remains one incontrovertible fact about Barack Obama, 100% right on this issue or not: he's not John McCain. And that is the most important quality about him. Unrealistic idealism isn't going to advance our side any more than if we were to simply stay home in November, regardless of how loudly we may yell, or how strongly we may believe. Better to back Obama's candidacy while not being afraid of voicing our disappointment in those stances with which we feel are not progressive enough, and not caving to the idiocy of equating McLame and Obama, as if our self-righteous protestations of fantasy are going to do anything but ostracize not just ourselves, but our ideas, from the forefront of the debate. Or would we rather cut off our noses to spite our faces?
What's up with these CD readers bashing Keith Olbermann. He's the only one in the lame stream media that bashes Bush. What you CD readers want? Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly?
"So Jozef, do you want even more pain? How many of Bushit's reactionary judicial appointments did we stop? NONE!" Yhat's my point. You stop them by filibuster. Democrats didn't. They are responsible.
Democracy on MSM is of the corporate media by the corporate media and for the corporate media. As long as Keith gets "experts" like Fineman and Alter night after night he is not going to get anywhere.
""No, I don't have buyers remorse. Yes, he still is better than Hillary or McCain. No, I am not disillusioned (I never thought he was a flaming liberal in the first place). I am, however, disgusted, and I will caution the Obama campaign that "better than McCain" is not much of a rallying cry. We all remember how "anything is better than Bush" turned out in 2004.""
Obama will do what he needs to do in order to get elected. Given the general idiocy of the American electorate, I'm all for that. Do you want him to take a series of principled stands that are going to wind up putting McCain in the White House? If he has to bullshit here and there, well, it would be like me holding my nose as I would have, wretching and pulling the lever for Hillary in a Clinton-McCain contest. As disgusted as I am with her, if it meant a greater likelihood of getting our troops out of Iraq, I would have voted for her. If Obama has to bullshit to increase the likelihood of getting our troops out of Iraq, I'm for that too.
Sometimes we have to lie or do appalling things for the greater good.
So Jozef, do you want even more pain? How many of Bushit's reactionary judicial appointments did we stop? NONE!
And it's not just appointments to the bench that you need to concern yourself with, as all 50 states have their chief law enforcement officer appointed by the president with no confirmation hearings. Have you forgotten what we just went through with Bush's attorney firings? Polical prosecutions like the Alabama governor, Don Siegleman?
And that is just a start, as he also appoints all of the heads of the government agencies like OSHA, FEMA, FDA, USDA, EPA, NASA, FHA and on and on. He also controls the budget for those agencies through the Office of Management and Budget.
You need to do a lot more thinking about the power of the office of president before you put another f'ing Bush-clone in it!
"I think that's why we don't have a third party right now; people know we can't tolerate another Alito or Scalia, and that's what we'll get with McBush." But wait! The Dems let this happen, and they approved of Gonzalez and Mukasey. So not so fast. Dems will do it again, that is, screw those who elect them. Doesn't it hurt enough already?
"politics is the art of the possible"
ie - what you can get away with.
Melmac78 1:01pm, 27th
"Don't you think that you have to do and say a lot of things to get the office-I'll wait until he's in office to start the bad-mouthing-that's when it counts!"
That's EXACTLY what I said about Nancy Pelosi in '06, saying I'd wait 'til she got settled in office to do the right thing about upholding the Constitution and begin leadership on impeachment proceedings against the criminals in the White House.
Look how well THAT turned out! "Impeachment is off the table" became her mantra and she has never wavered from it. She has abdicated her duty. The war criminals are poised to walk and, as a result, the next President has been given cart blanche to do whatever he wants to do to make the office even more imperial.
If it weren't for the onus of the Supreme Court hanging over my head, I'd write in Ron Paul or vote for Nader. That's the only thing stopping me--future Supreme Court appointments. I think that's why we don't have a third party right now; people know we can't tolerate another Alito or Scalia, and that's what we'll get with McBush. At least I HOPE they know that, or at least consider the consequences of a protest vote.
Elderlady 10:34am, 28th has it right. It's not about the lesser of 2 evils. It's about the Supreme Court and more of the same. More. Of. The. Same.
No thanks.
Obama '08 with eyes wide open and no illusions.
That was a lot of talk Rick, but where is the action plan? What's your solution?
That was a lot of talk Little Brother, but where is the action plan? What's your solution?
Hmm, well hopefully reading (or being told about) this piece will give him some food for thought. I'll still take Olbermann over all the rest of the talking heads, and it's not just for his cuteness that I cut him some slack, to make mistakes or change his mind. I'd prefer to think he's not "one of them" tool types, and think I'll remain ignorant of it if he is. Just so much truth one person can take.
Little Brother June 28th, 2008 1:11 pm
You hit the nail squarely on the head.
Funny, I was just browsing the comments at another site, and came upon a screed by someone of the simple-minded, lesser-evil, dumbed-down, common-sense perspective exhibited here. This was a flaming response to a damning criticism of Obama-- not mine, incidentally.
The commenter, as usual, was roaring with wrath and scorn against the misplaced "idealism" of the Obama critic and the critic's further rejection of the decadent duopoly in which the US is mired. In particular, the commenter snarled-- one could feel the hot droplets of saliva-spray hissing against the monitor screen-- the reason that nobody pays attention to YOU (the Obama/duopoly critic) is because we got to KNOW your kind in the SIXTIES, and we finally saw right THROUGH you!
The critic, according to the sensible, mature commentor, was obviously one of those shallow, half-assed IDEALISTS who expected INSTANT GRATIFICATION instead of the long, hard slog of constant work and sacrifice to meet a corrupt and skewed political system on its own terms, and keep to the path on a journey of a thousand years necessary to effect those idealistic expectations of justice, fairness, equality, and liberty.
The commenter, by implication, was one of those salt-of-the-earth pragmatists who'd paid HIS or HER dues by such sober, mature, patient baby steps. And the commenter righteously DISMISSED the critic as a worthless pissant fluttering around in the peanut gallery while the commenter and his allies did the heavy lifting.
It was like reading a screed from a fire ant spewing venom upon a grasshopper for not understanding the first thing about building and maintaining an ant colony.
I was tempted to jump in, and might yet do so, to ask mischieviously: "Let me get this straight: while your interlocutor here, or his philosophical ancestors, were fooling around being Sunshine Dissenters in the Sixties, YOU and your comrades were unselfishly sacrificing in the trenches fighting the REAL battle.
So how is that working out for you, incidentally? Let's see, we wound up with Ford, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and finally the Dark Lord. I guess we're still in the 'two steps back' phase."
But it's not nice to provoke a fire ant. Besides, I predict that the response would be to blame the very same clueless grasshoppers for hindering the Cause. (It's remarkably similar to the wingnut logic that blames debacles like Vietnam and Iraq on a 'fifth column' of dissenters, eh?) This is the same defensive mentality that so readily concludes that blog comments arguing against lesser-evilism are the work of "trolls" or (paid) plants out to undermine morale and spread cynicism and apathy.
Apart from invoking the usual rugged virtues of "realism" and "pragmatism", there's an extensive lexicon of trivializing insults and characterizations from the militant defenders of Incremental Change From Within, from outright epithets: "assholes" (melmac78); "a bunch of idiots" "...pissing in your corn flakes" (MikeBinSC); "righteous snit" (Elderlady). "Moron" is also popular-- and I myself was labelled a "sophist" yesterday. At least it's a cut above "moron".
All of these rhetorical tactics are simply defense mechanisms, like a squid spraying ink-- or a skunk spraying musk. They're employed because the merits of lesser-evilism are so readily debunked and deconstructed.
Oh, and Olbermann? There are some public figures who are lifted above their normal abilities and character in times of crisis. They find a niche from which they can connect to a discouraged and dispirited audience, and become a rising star. I don't mean this cynically-- I mean to say that some persons, like Olbermann, are in the right place at the right time, and seem to show enhanced powers and abilities, as if they've been bitten by a radioactive spider.
I don't have cable TV, but I watched KO's Special Comments on the Web. I was suitably impressed and heartened by these comments, and didn't mind Keith's presenting himself as the much-needed Edward R. Murrow figure who would fearlessly speak truth to power.
But even before Keith got all jiggy with Hillary Clinton, familiarity bred skepticism. The melodramatic "Special Comment" did not improve with repetition; in fact, although Keith apparently consciously tries to not over-do them, they just seemed less authentic and more a matter of stagecraft as they went on. Not entirely phony, but forced and hollow.
I can imagine someone coming up to Keith at parties and saying, "Hey, do that 'Special Comment' thing!" It's not his fault that such things inevitably become a cliché, of course, but still their impact diminished. (Not to true believers, of course; that Special Commentary blasting Hillary for her ambiguous "assassination" comment was overdone to the point of ludicrousness, but an Obama supporter I'm close to thought it was spot-on and deeply gratifying.)
Glenn Greenwald operates on another level, regardless of the tendency to attribute the same personal motivations and willingness to engage in public "feuds" with object of his impeccable criticisms. He exposed the spit and baling-wire foundation to Olbermann's recent pronouncements, including Olbermann's rear-guard attempt to kidnap John Dean and keep Dean in his corner as a superior authority and Greenwald-rebutter. (Dean is not obliging, incidentally.)
Olbermann isn't the only teevee personality who became a darling to the multifarious anti-Bush constituencies. Jack Cafferty, for instance, has also gotten a boost from his contrarian stances during the reign of this criminal maladministration. At some point, he'll revert to the conservative curmudgeon he used to be, and people will start to wonder why they thought he was so cool. The jury's still out on Olbermann, I suppose, but he's not the second coming of Murrow that he makes himself out to be.
As a grasshopper myself, I can state with confidence that being bitten by fire ants does not persuade me of the righteousness of their cause.
If McCain were to win the WH in November, I will seriously consider moving to Europe. Wht'll be the point of sticking around? At least I'll have Euros and decent healthcare; two fundamental things America cannot provide its citizens.
Hey, wait a minute. I voted for Obama in the primary. I will vote for him in the election. I listen to Olbermann's podcast every weekday. I enjoy his show.
But, on this issue Olbermann and Obama are wrong, serisously wrong.
We have a rubber stamp FISA court. But that was not enough for our president, he ignored it and demanded more power. We were correctly outraged by Bush's illegal actions. But now that the Democrtic nominee assures us that the expanded spy authority is necessary, we no longer care that it's unconstitutional to spy on us without probable cause. Please.
Olbermann was finished for me the night he looked blank-faced into the nation and said "Kucinich is out...." in passing toward some other non-subject of this fake election. DONE, Keith. The above confirms it. Keep your G-Q progressivism and screw you for whoring your profession in the name of corporate bland, your career and this mystic beholdenness to some moron in "middle America"....
dudleydoright June 27th, 2008 10:39 pm
"I smell alot of self-righteous bloggers around here lately and it smells like assholes!!"
Notice the pathetic impotency of Democratic Party apologists who can offer absolutely no reasons to vote for their traitorous candidate, Obama. The best dudleydoright can manage is an argument aD Hominem-abusive. Name-calling.
Glenn Greenwald - Kudos on a beautifully written article way loaded with many good points.
(1) What Barack Obama is doing on Issue X is wrong, indefensible and worthy of extreme criticism;
(2) I support Barack Obama for President because he's a better choice than John McCain.
Support Obama, of course, because the Democratic Party apologists believe in lesseroftwoevilism. Plain simple, vote for lesser and that is what he is.
When a ship goes down usually the rats jump ship, but not on the Obama Ship of Fools where the rats cling furiously:
dudleydoright June 27th, 2008 10:39 pm
"I smell alot of self-righteous bloggers around here lately and it smells like assholes!!"
The above is a classic example of a Democratic Party apologist that defends the indefensible. I smell a rat.
To those of you who have worked yourselves into a "righteous snit" over this issue, and what Obama did and did not do on FISA: If you have not read it, go immediately, and read the article about David Addington's appearance before a congressional committee.
Then, ask yourself if you want eight more years of "David Addingtons" in the White House, and making policy in government.
For me the answer was simple. Absolutely Not!
Glenn Greenwald is attempting to make a mountain out of a mole hill. And, I agree with K.O. John Dean is worth 25 Glenn Greenwalds, and maybe 26 Keith Olbermanns.
Do you want Mukasey to remain as the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in these United States? I don't.
Do you want more "Antonin Scalias" on the Supreme Court? I don't.
There is a bigger picture here. If you want to see it. If you want to stay focused on FISA. Fine.
Anybody over the age of eighteen who does not believe that politicians, (when they get to the place where Obama is, in a national election,) say what they have to say to get elected, is living on another planet. Lincoln did it. Kennedy did it. Roosevelt did it. Nixon did it. Lord knows Reagan did.
Read the article about David Addington, and decide if you want eight more years of that arrogance.
I don't.
Glenn Greenwald, great work.
There will be more issues like FISA in which Obama will be given a pass by Olbermann and others.
Take for example the issue of global warming. When McCain and Obama talk about gas prices I don't think they directly make the connection with global warming. They don't say what needs to be said. The problem of course is that despite the out-of-control speculation, gas prices should be high. They should be high as a result of higher taxes. High gas prices reduce consumption, encourage innovation and cosequently reduce global warming.
Are we going to sit on our hands, silently assuming that once in office Obama will act responsibly on this matter?
I'll go out on a limb here and state the obvious: Money controls Politicians..
The top 1% of the population have wealth greater then 90% of the people combined!
This as never been a true democracy only oligarchy wrapped in an illusion
and then sold to the people, to keep them docile, while the bankers and politicians work
together to steal their wealth.
Meet Penny Pritzker and an example of how money never strays far from political power.
IS OBAMA FOR THE PEOPLE OR THE BANKS?
By Moe Bedard on March 2nd, 2008
Let's get something straight here America.
The President of the United States is to work for the common good of the people for which they represent and serve. Yes, represent and serve. They do not take the oval office to work for the "special interests" of corporate America and the money that fills their campaign buckets.
Or do they?
I have been watching Barrack Obama for quite sometime and what I have seen, has been nothing short of disappointing. Obama has been mostly silent in regards to his policy on the mortgage and housing crisis. He has done little to address the millions of Americans that are "suffering" as a result of these loans they were sold by irresponsible lenders.
I came across this interesting article in the Huffington Post by Earl Ofari Hutchinson. Here are some quotes that I thought I would share with my readers. Since they need to know what candidates truly have their backs. Meaning, which candidate is truly here for the people which they represent and the millions of homeowners that were swindled by the banks.
Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama says he'll crack down on fraudulent sub-prime lenders. If he really means it he can start by firing his campaign finance chair, Penny Pritzker. Before taking over Obama's campaign finances, she headed up the borderline shady and failed Superior Bank. It collapsed in 2002. The bank's sordid story and its abominable role in fueling the sub-prime crisis are well known and documented. It engaged in deceptive and faulty lending, questionable accounting practices, and charged hidden fees. It did it with the sleepy-eyed see-no-evil oversight of federal. It made thousands of dubious loans to mostly poor, strapped homeowners. A disproportionate number of them were minority.
I am not really familiar with this Penny Pritzker. So, I thought I would do a Google search and this is what I found. This is from wikipedia.
On February 20, 2008, Flashpoints Radioproduced an investigative report segment into how Penny Pritzker's possible role in the current predatory lending(aka. sub-prime) crisis. According to investigative reporter Tim Anderson, Superior Bank, FSB of Hinsdale, Illinois, was owned by the Pritzker family until closed by the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) was named Receiver. Superior Bank was among the original lending institutions who used their investors money to purchase "subprime" mortgages for securitization. Pritzker banking resources working with Ernst & Young and Merrill Lynch developed the original mortgage securitation package, putting mortgages into a bond and then selling the bond. Like many banks nationwide, the decision to participate and underwrite subprime business ultimately proved fatal for their mortgage division.
Here is the podcast that I feel everyone should listen to from Flashpoints Radio.
Wednesday, February 20, 2008 Listen D'load Podcast - Today on Flashpoints: Today on Flashpoints, An investigative report into Penny Pritzker, the 2008 campaign finance chairman for Barack Obama, who was a key mover and shaker in creating the sub-prime meltdown;
It doesn't end there and keep in mind, this is all as easy as doing a 30 second Google search. This is a November 8, 2002 article is from Inside These Times:
After federal regulators closed the $2.3 billion Superior Bank in July 2001, investigations revealed that the suburban Chicago thrift was tainted with the hallmarks of a mini-Enron scandal. New legal developments are adding additional twists, including racketeering charges. And yet the bank's owners, members if one of America's wealthiest families, ultimately could end up profiting from the bank's collapse, while many of Superior's borrowers and depositors suffer financial losses.
The Superior story has a familiar ring. Using a variety of shell companies and complex financial gimmicks, Superior's managers and owners exaggerated the profits and financial soundness of the bank. While the company actually lost money throughout most of the '90s, publicly it appeared to be growing remarkably fast and making unusually large profits. Under that cover, the floundering enterprise paid its owners huge dividends and provided them favorable loans and other financial deals deemed illegal by federal investigators.
Wanting to avoid a lawsuit, the secretive Pritzkers quickly agreed to what the FDIC hailed in December as the biggest settlement they had ever negotiated. The Pritzkers would pay $100 million immediately, then $360 million over 15 years. But there were lots of little provisions in the agreement that benefit the Pritzkers. First, as former bank consultant and longtime thrift watchdog Tim Anderson notes, the $100 million doesn't even quite pay back all of the unpaid loans made to the owners. The Pritzkers also pay no interest on the $360 million, and since it is paid over many years, the real cost to the Pritzkers may be only around $250 million. As of September 2002, according to FDIC figures, the insurance fund was still out $440 million after this settlement.
But it gets even sweeter for the Pritzkers. The FDIC also agreed to pay the Pritzkers 25 percent of any claim won in a lawsuit against Ernst & Young. Since the FDIC is now suing for $548 million, the Pritzker share could be $137 million. On top of that, the agreement stated that the Pritzkers get half of any civil penalties from such a lawsuit (after certain agency expenses). The FDIC is asking for triple damages, or $1.64 billion; the Pritzker share could be over $800 million.
Even taking into account the "record" settlement they made with the FDIC, the Pritzkers could make more than $700 million in additional profit for running a financial institution into the ground. They had already profited handsomely, sharing in the more than $200 million in dividends to the owners in the '90s. They accomplished all this with an investment of about $21 million for each partner—though the Pritzkers had also already benefited from $645 million in tax credits.
Meanwhile, roughly 1,000 depositors who had deposits above $100,000 in a Superior account—money above the FDIC-insured limit—lost about $65 million. Most of them were middle-class individuals, attracted by Superior's high interest rates.
Here is the failed Superior Bank information from the FDIC
So, what does all this tell the American people? The suffering American homeowner that is struggling in one of the very same loans that Penny Pritzker used to pedal at her "Superior Swindle of a Bank"?
How can Barack Obama say you have a splinter in your eye when there is a log in his?
Personally to me, it shows that Mr. Obama is all about the Benjamin's (AKA Money) and speeches with his big white toothed grin and hollow words that seem to have Americans under his spell and hanging on to his every word as his pockets are lined by the very sharks that feed off of suffering Americans.
Isn't Obama supposed to protect the people against these corporations or is he to align himself with them to win an election? Hell, it seems like it doesn't matter where that money came from to fund his campaign. As long as it serves his purpose and this purpose seems to be rearing its ugly head in the form of campaign contributions from the very same people that he criticises.
You are contradicting yourself Obama. Why don't you read exactly what this means and I'll help you by posting the wikipedia version of the term "contradiction."
In logic, a contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility between two or more propositions. It occurs when the propositions, taken together, yield two conclusions which form the logical inversions of each other. Illustrating a general tendency in applied logic, Aristotle's law of noncontradiction states that "One cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time."
More from Inside These Times:
Ernst & Young provided inaccurate audits, resisted regulators, and did not test or properly disclose crucial financial assumptions. The OTS didn't investigate or follow up on problems adequately, ignored warning signs for years, and unduly relied on the expertise of managers, the auditor's report, and the promise of the wealthy owners to put their money behind the bank's strategy, which they ultimately refused to do. While the FDIC lawsuit against Ernst & Young correctly highlights the accounting firm's sorry record of accounting malpractice, it ignores the dubious history of the Pritzkers and Dworman in cases ranging from tax evasion to bank mismanagement, instead praising the Pritzkers for their charity.
What looked like a good deal for the FDIC in resolving Superior's failure is now looking like yet another opportunity for the wealthy Pritzkers to further profit from their misdeeds. Certainly, the record suggests that Ernst & Young bears responsibility, but so do the Pritzkers and Dworman. The question is not just who will extract money from whose pocket in the aftermath of the bank failure, but also whether the rich are simply above the law. The RICO lawsuit against bank managers, owners and auditors raises the issue of criminal conspiracy and at least attempts to recover damages for the uninsured depositors. But beyond that, argues thrift watchdog Anderson, "I think there ought to be a criminal investigation."
More wise words from Earl Ofari Hutchinson from the Huffington Post:
Obama boosters will try to muddy the water by fingering Pritzker's brother, Jay Robert Pritzker, who heads up a campaign committee for Hillary Clinton. That's irrelevant. Jay Robert did not head up Superior Bank when it ran roughshod over homeowners in Illinois and nationally. He does not head up Clinton's campaign finance committee. The campaign committee he started is one of dozens of Clinton campaign committees that operate in many states.
Obama's message is one of hope and especially change. He can prove it by changing his finance chair, and doing it now. And then telling the public what he will do to stop bank's like the one his financial point person headed from bleeding needy and desperate home buyers dry.
The predictable happened when many of those lost their homes. When the bank collapsed Pritzker and bank officials skipped away with their profits and reputations intact. Aside from the financial and personal misery sub prime lenders caused the thousands of distressed homeowners, sub-prime lending has been a major cause of the housing crisis in many areas, and has dealt a sledgehammer blow to the economy. Obama has said nothing about Pritzker, Superior Bank, or their dubious practices.
Instead, there was a touching, even teary eyed photo op, moment during one of Obama's Texas campaign swings. There was Obama talking to a group of San Antonio residents and lambasting the CEO of a sub-prime lender for greedily snatching at a $100 million buy out package while thousands of home borrowers that his company snookered into loans at below market rates faced foreclosure or the threat of foreclosure.
So let me get this straight Obama. You can berate a CEO like Angelo Mozilo (I assume that is who you are speaking of) for taking profits as a result of snookering the American people. But when it comes to accepting money for your campaign, it is quite all right to take money from a woman who snookered American Homeowners and was made rich off the backs of people for which she made toxic loans to.
Excuse me Barack Obama, Penny Pritzker is guilty of the very same thing for which you had a lambasting fest in San Antonio. Now, lets see if main stream media is also under Obama's goofy grinned spell and if they will pick up this very important information that the American people "need" to know.
Obama made it clear that he would try to have the immunity stricken from the FISA bill. The vote on this bill will not be close enough for his vote to change anything. At this point, after the primaries are over, Obama's audience is switched now to the knuckle-dragging, informationally-challenged great unwashed! Let's cut him some slack here - OK?
Here is an excerpt from an article by David Michael Green, currently on the main page here at CD -
….
"To an extent, this can all be excused — possibly — as pre-election necessity. It's crucial to win this year. It's crucial for Obama not to allow himself to be swiftboated. It's clear that he well understands these principles. Frankly, I don't want him to advertise any unpopular, left-of-center politics he might have during the campaign, whether or not he would pursue those policies in office. They won't help him now, and they'll very likely hurt him. It does none of us any good for John McCain to become America's 44th president of the United States, and after watching the pathetic performances of Dukakis, Gore and Kerry in (not) fighting for the presidency, I for one am not going to hold Obama's feet to the political purity bonfire of ideological self-immolation.
….
What Obama appears to be doing is following the standard American presidential script, which is to run to your left (if you're a Democrat) during the primaries, and then to the center after securing the nomination. Obama never got very far to the left of the public at any point, but you can see him repositioning now. Perhaps after the election we'll see yet a third version, and perhaps that will be more progressive than not. Perhaps.
….
Everyone has to make their own choices, of course. But, me? I generally recommend against suicide.
….
For sure, it will be wonderful to remove from the body politic the cancer currently occupying the White House."
I watched the clip. My impression of Olberman remains the same. After all, "What's the difference" whether Obama now wears a flag pin? There is a big difference. It shows, and Keith, agrees, that Obama must do what it takes to get elected. It's called pandering. As for the G.E. versus Rupert Murdoch feud, enjoy.
Those who wish to crucify Olberman should also take a good look at the body of work he has done over the last few YEARS!
Jozef, don't just read the out-of-context statements in Greenwalds article - You really should watch the clip Greenwald was talking about here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li5tBw0qT-8
- then tell me what he said.
Did you read the original article way up above?
_
"What's much more notable is Olbermann's full-scale reversal on how he talks about these measures now that Obama — rather than George Bush — supports them."
Jozef, what exactly did Olberman say that you equate with him pissing in your corn flakes anyway?
"Jesus, now we're going to start dumping on Olbermann, too!?!
_
"Fuck people, we don't have that many liberal voices on the air. Let the guy make at least a couple mistakes before you denounce him and destroy him."
_
If calling people "idiots" makes you feel good then I'm glad I can contribute to your self-gratification. The truth is that Olberman is a paid employee of one of the biggest corporations and polluters there is: G.E. What master does he serve? Who says that people who criticize Olberman are liberals, or even liberal friendly. Liberals, remember are people who sanction Bush's crimes, you know, Democrats in Congress, liberals, did that. And when the times get tough, liberals change their self-identification to "progressive". Continue to watch the G.E., et al, mouth pieces talk. Giant corporations, military contractors like G.E., are good for you and the planet. Forbes magazine reports that G.E. employees contributions to Obama are in the top 10. Any connections between Obama, Olberman, and G.E. You think? http://www.forbes.com/2008/03/26/beltway-election-politics-biz-wash-cz_a...
Some of you need to spend some time with Bill O'Really in the "NOSE PIN ZONE"!!!
ROFL THAT'S genuinely funny!
Zamboni_fahrer June 27th, 2008 4:43 pm, My sentiments exactly, Olberman "ROCKS OUT LOUD"!
The primary is over! The only thinking people in America have made their decision. Barack is now playing to an information-challenged audience for votes in November.
Obama has said that he would try to get the immunity portion stripped from the New FISA bill. Trust me, his vote will not decide this issue.
Where was Hillary when Feingold and Dodd vowed to filibuster this bill? Well, she was not on board when the ship sailed, and I don't think she will catch up with it at the next port!
God, what a bunch of idiots some of you are! Keith Olberman, who told Bush to "Shut The Hell UP" on national TV, and you want to bring him down? Are you all working from Karl Rove's playbook?
Some of you need to spend some time with Bill O'Really in the "NOSE PIN ZONE"!!!
You really should watch the clip Greenwald was talking about here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li5tBw0qT-8
With all due respect to those complaining about trashing Olbermann, he is a paid employee of General Electric and if you asked Americans across the country if they approved of being illegally spied on, the answer would be no. With the exception of the board of G.E. of course.
"Here we have a black man-the first candidate to be born without a silver spoon in a gazillion years with the potential to have empathy for the working class..."
Blah blah blah. Here we have a black man raised with a silver spoon by a white family in Hawaii who jokes about the price of arugula at Whole Foods and has never worked a real job in his entire life....
Get it RIGHT for a change. We can believe in hope?
melmac78 June 27th, 2008 11:45 pm
"Don't you people understand-a dem has to move to the middle to get elected. Here we have a black man-the first candidate to be born without a silver spoon in a gazillion years with the potential to have empathy for the working class and you assholes are nitpicking about shit that in the long run won't mean anything-talk about an uninformed electorate!"
How is gutting the 4th Amendment moving to the middle? It's more like moving to the far right.
I'm sorry if disagreeing that the U.S. Constitution is "shit that in the long run won't mean anything" makes me an "asshole" who is "uninformed".
Olbermann, Stewart, and Colbert, are heroes of mine. They used sarcasm and wit, to challenge the naked emperor, when everyone else cowered in fear.
I understand Olbermann's desire to forgive Obamam FISA vote, in order to avoid another four years of Bush Inc. I forgive Olbermann this trespass.
When Olbermann gets his President Obama, and realizes he was suckered well, hell hath no fury like a pundit scorned.
Don't you people understand-a dem has to move to the middle to get elected. Here we have a black man-the first candidate to be born without a silver spoon in a gazillion years with the potential to have empathy for the working class and you assholes are nitpicking about shit that in the long run won't mean anything-talk about an uninformed electorate!
When Clinton panders and flip-flops in order to get votes, she's the Great Sataness. When Obama panders and flip-flops in order to get votes, he's a realist.
When Bush supports gutting the Bill of Rights, he's a fascist. When Obama supports gutting the Bill of Rights, he's saving us from fascism.
I smell alot of self-righteous bloggers around here lately and it smells like assholes!!
Oh yeah, let's toss Obama and Olbermann both in the trash because they practice a little realism. Then run out and vote for Nader, like that is going to usher in some kind of revolution. All it will usher in is McCain, a third term of Bush neocon policy, which will push your dream of a viable third party further away.
Let's get Obama elected, and THEN criticise him. THIS is how America works. It is NOT a proportional-representation parliamentary system. Our system is designed and constructed --intentionally or un-- to encourage, support and perpetuate TWO viable parties. Not three, four, six or whatever. Just two. The incumbent and the opposition.
This is the way it works, and the way it will continue to work. Unless we keep electing and re-electing "unitary executives" who are inaugurated with or without having the most actual votes. This is where we're going. We need to elect Obama and make it not even close. THEN we can work for change.
Jesus, now we're going to start dumping on Olbermann, too!?!
Fuck people, we don't have that many liberal voices on the air. Let the guy make at least a couple mistakes before you denounce him and destroy him.
We are seeing an example of party unity. There is one party today. The differences between Dems and Republicans are in the divide and rule issues that pale in significance to the real issues.
So you have this Corporate Fascist Party, and can choose in 2 colors, Red or Blue, Black or White. Nothings going to change.
Olberman. Ahuh. Now what corporate niche does this Capitalist fill? Could it be that MSNBC knows how to suck in liberals, progressives, Democrats, etc., for the purpose of presenting their minds to corporate advertisers, and political operatives? The more viewers, the higher the ratings (stacked up against Bill O'Reilly on Faux Noise - a "horse race" in its own right that Olberman created). The higher the ratings, the higher the income revenue. As Chris Matthews writes in his new book: Whatever it takes! Therein lies the modus operandi, i.e., the major aspect of the main stream media's business plan. To expect anything other than that which successfully contributes to corporate profits is to misunderstand the purpose of the 21st century media. Everything. Absolutely everything in the main stream media is designed for one single purpose, that is, making money, and manipulating people so more money can be made. Olberman is no exception. Thinking he is, is naive. Neither the truth, nor consistency in reporting or presenting contradictory "special statements" matter to Olberman. What does matter is that the Olberman enterprise, like all other capitalist enterprise, monitor and adjust so that brain share continues moving upward. The big question regarding Olberman really is: Who gives a damn what he has to say about Obama, or anything else? Or whether he changes his tune? He, like Obama, are part and parcel of the same corporate system that has only a few things of importance on their mind: money and power. Obama, Olberman, McCain, FOX, etc., all not really such strange bedfellows in the king size bed of what controls us. Dump them all. Freedom means letting go of Olberman, Obama, FOX, McCain, et al. As musician Billy Bragg puts it, "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to sell". Vote anything other than Republican or Democrat. And shut the MSM TV and radio off. Run Ralph. Run!
A couple of thoughts. First Keith Olbermann has a diary on dailykos that addresses these issues. Second Mr. Olbermann says he changed his mind due to conversations he had with John Dean who pointed out that the telecoms are still open to criminal prosecution in the new FISA bill. Perhaps Obama plans on prosecuting the telecoms criminally. Third and finally the Patriot act has already given away the right to unreasonable search and seizure. Don't worry too much about FISA.
None of this stuff means fuck-all - He's going to be a great prez.
Oh... most of the people at the dental clinic were Americans, and a woman friend from Key West told me she crossed the border closer to Arizona and got her teeth done. NO ONE has any complaints! We all had good work done.
My daughter was enrolled in a dental program at the University of Florida, a decision that plagues me with guilt to this day! I was told they did good work. I still probably spent $800. They said she needed root canal and a cap! The work was done so badly that my daughter got an absess later, and recently had to have an implant done to the tune of $4500 (in S. Florida). US prices are so high and our health care is NOT as good as other places...
THADDEUS STEPHENS: I noticed the same thing in an article written by Barbara Ehrenreich in Harper's some years back... there is such a fear/reluctance to take on "big chemical" but it plays a HUGE role in the outbreak of a wide variety of cancers plaguing our nation. Diabetes is likely linked to the lazy lifestyles AND sugar/corn syrup in EVERYTHING!
One problem is that the climate of trespass is so dense, that there are SO MANY offenders, makes the capacity to establish the link of probable cause that much harder. Indeed we ARE awash in chemical soup and much of it is TOXIC or even radioactive (DU or past nuclear testing "dust")... I'd like to have a good health care system, or access to it, but at this point in time I do what I can to keep fit, eat a balanced diet, minimize sugar/caffeine/alcohol and try to process stress by being a kind, decent, caring HUMAN being. The rest is in the hands of higher forces, or I head to a different nation if a health concern I can't handle rears. I suspect others are considering the same. A few years ago I went to Mexico to get some dental caps. I heard about this in Ojai California and drove down to San Diego (border), left the vehicle, crossed through, and took a taxi to the dental clinic referred. I figured IF there was bottled water and I got a good "vibe" I'd do it. The place was very clean, the dentist knew which tooth needed work without X-rays, and I got 6 caps for about $1200. In the US they run about $700 plus EACH. I'm tempted to go back for more work!
This whole issue of telecoms being given immunity shows how the framing of the issue is the key. The telecoms have been bootlickers for decades. The FBI used them back in the 1920's and 1930's. No discussion that isolates the recent decade will truly develop the scope or dimensions involved in gaining (not regaining-we never had them to being with) our freedoms that are on paper in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
The real issue is when will we ever be free of fascist oppression? Even Nader makes me wonder. He talks about health care in much the same frame as so many do (the wonders of a one payer system-once found-will surely be no less splendid than those of the Holy Grail) and ignores one issue-why have costs risen 3 times faster in health care industry area than any other single part of the economy? One answer he could supply but does not is that we are in a cancer epidemic caused by the toxic soup we live in. Has he caved in to the Professional Cancer establishment (like the American Cancer Society)? Those folks want us to believe we are winning against cancer because it justifies the many billion$ they have tipped into their coffers. They are loathe to admit, or maybe just incompetently aware for example, that the incidence of breast cancer in women is significantly higher around nuclear power facilities.
I don't know of
any (all, each and every one)
of the recent Presidential candidates, including Kucinich, who passed the litmus test of showing they will roll up their sleeves on the issue of our health and safety -safety being work, environment issues, along with maintaining and protecting natural sources for clean air, water and soil for us to live in and on.
Obama, Olberman, Alter & CO are proving to be Reagan,Bush-Clinton, Bush ii redux-they are unable to free themselves of the burden of the myth of the once shining America that was a golden age of freedom until the Blue Meanies ascended from welfare hell and turned the country into a teleco wired mesh of weaklings and slobs.
melmac78 wrote:
"Don't you think that you have to do and say a lot of things to get the office-I'll wait until he's in office to start the bad-mouthing-that's when it counts!"
Uhhhh...hey dumbass, he is in office, he's a Senator voting on this piece of crap bill. It counts quite a bit now thank you very much!
melmac78 at June 27th, 2008 1:01 pm, asks, "Don't you think that you have to do and say a lot of things to get the office-I'll wait until he's in office to start the bad-mouthing-that's when it counts!" Whatever might be the wisdom of this position in the general case, it seems off the mark when talking about an action (not a talking point) scheduled to occur not when "he's in office" but within the next few days.
The ugly game of politics is a multi-front war for every candidate in every party. There is the grassroot-support front, the media front, the oppositional front, the swing-vote front, etc. You get the idea. The object of the game in election-year politics is to GET ELECTED which means means appealing to greatest number of voters.
EVERY candidate says and acts (if they are still in office when running for another) according to the principle of what will do the least amount of damage to their election goal.
Some things, like the FISA vote, while unfortunate, is an example of a candidate who probably is personally against the legislation but needs political cover in an election year against, not another candidate in the SAME party, but a candidate in the opposing party in a national election.
Obama needs swing voters, yellow-dog Democrats and Republicans who don't really like McCain to think that he is not weak on Terrorism.
In a democracy, there will never be a perfect candidate, for there are too many conflicting interests out there to satisfy, ESPECIALLY within the Democratic Party. There are so many factions and special interests within the Democratic Party, that a candidate is forced to paint themselves with broad strokes in an effort to not alienate voters.
It took Republicans over 20 years to get to the point of dominance that they now have. Grover Norquist once referred to gaining incrementally in every election cycle.
Democrats have done well to win the House and Senate and we stand to make more gains this year. We NEED a Democratic President to finish the coup.
We won't get everything we want right away. The system is what it is and I believe that Barrack Obama is a good man who honestly wants to improve our nation in accordance to many of the principles espoused here on this site.
But we'll never know if we don't stand together and help him get elected and we wind up with McCain in office.
Would someone please explain to me, just why the hell, standing in support of the fourth amendment, the right to privacy, health, happiness and a decent quality of life is a "LIBERAL" idea?
Everytime one of these psuedo "liberals" hear the gustapo screech..."LIBERAL"...they run for the hills. Huh...must be Dim liberals! Assclowns!
THis above point contains much wisdom FROM FORMERNADERVOTER
We couldn't vote for Henry Wallace in 48 because that would bring us Dewey. We didn't get Dewey, but Truman gave us his policies.
We couldn't vote for Ralph, because that would give us Bush. Gore actually won but failed to push effectively to prove it.
Now we can't vote for Ralph because that would give it to McCain. But on issue after issue Obama equals McCain.
Wake up, progressives.
While it's true that Ralph can't win, with the choice between Obama and McCain we've all, already lost.
Shill for Mugabe, or a veteran might hurt you.
Shill for Obama, or McCain might hurt you.
The lesson of the hypocrisy of Keith on this issue is that it is okay to dis GW Bush, but not Obama. I am glad Keith Olbermann detests Bush and Cheney, I wish he (and his corporate sponsers and employers) detested their fascism as much.
Bravo Glenn Greenwald for telling it like it is with Keith's own words and not just speculative gossip (I am sure Keith would appreciate that!).
This incident also makes Pastor Jerimiah Wright's (Obama's now former pastor and life-long friend) famous comment to Barack Obama that "if you win I'm coming after you next" that much more poignant and special.
Olbermann RAWKS. What does Greenwald want? What a liberal whiner. Olbermann has done what NOBODY ELSE on mainstream TV has done on air, primetime: ream Bush a second asshole so dumbshit amerkuns can understand how seriously they've been fucked over. Yay for Keith!!! Love ya, baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I started watching Olbermann just about a year ago, and at first I thought gee, he's not covering all of the important issues, but he's doing better than most on MSM. He had some great moments where I was cheering him on for his comments and revelations. But I have noticed a change in recent months and see his coverage more like the pundits -- no real substance on the issues, but bantering about who said this or who said that for large swaths of the show. I've been tuning him out more and more and he becomes a supporter of his candidate no matter what. That's not what I'm looking for. I am completely turned off of Obama at this point. Vote for Obama? No deal!
Glenn Greenwald,
I always appreciate your keen insight and take-no-prisoners approach to the truth. Keep it up!
Propaganda is propaganda, no matter where it comes from.
I still don't know about Obama.
USAn wrote:
"In the Republican march to three decades of ideological and most of the time, political domnance - through defeats worse than anything McGovern or Dukakas suffered (i.e. Goldwater), did thay EVER feel the need to say anything but their most sincerely held reactionary beliefs?
"So, why can't the Democrats do this???"
Might I suggest the Democrats don't feel any need to express their most sincerely held reactionary beliefs because the Republicans already do it for them so well.
Congress had better not give a pass to the telecoms on this. Once granted, it will take another "act of congress" to undo it. That isn't going to happen. And how naive to think that once president, Obama will expend the effort to prosecute the (multitudes?) of violations of individual citizens' civil rights. It will be pronounced a fool's errand that will cost too much taxpayers' dollars -- the cost/benefit ratio, blah de blah de blah ..... No, the line has to be drawn here, now. Olbermann has been spot on on so many of his Special Comments, but on this particular point I think he's indulging in wishful thinking.
Check out Glenn Greenwald's blog entry at Salon.com today. Olbermann responded to Greenwald on the Daily Kos and Greenwald addresses Olberman's response in today's entry.
Good stuff and important points. We need to hold Obama and the media to the same standards.
considerthis,
If you are talking strictly about your personal fortunes, you will do as well under McCain as under Obama. The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer.
I used to think that the people of the middle east might do better with Obama as president, but this looks increasingly unlikely as well.
Most of the forces at work here - particularly the economic, and environmental ones are far larger than any one presidential administration anyway.
formernadervoter,
And, even if Gore was elected, waht evidence is there that he wouldn't have invaded Iraq as well? As VP for Clinton, he was quite happy with the low-level bombings and starvation of the population that clinton pursued in Iraq.
It appears we keep on getting thrown an issue and everyone takes after that one, either agreeing of disagreeing. Then "they" (whoever) throws us the next controversy and everyone chases after that - arguing for a few days until the next launch. How about an overall view of the McCain presidency vs the Obama presidency. From what I know, I may be able to live through an Obama presidency. I have strong doubts about surviving McCain.
Ok, I don't think rhetorical subtlty works here - especially the younger generation (Goldwater? wasn't that an old james Bond villin?)
So, the answer is...
The Democrats can "do this", because the Democrats hold exactly the same reactionary beliefs as teh Republicans!
Barry Goldwater would be to the left of Obama today, and Nixon would be regarded as a completely, unelectably, anti-big-business leftist.
melmac wrote:
"Don't you think that you have to do and say a lot of things to get the office..."
In the Republican march to three decades of ideological and most of the time, political domnance - through defeats worse than anything McGovern or Dukakas suffered (i.e. Goldwater), did thay EVER feel the need to say anything but their most sincerely held reactionary beliefs?
So, why can't the Democrats do this???
The answer is obvious.
Don't jump on Olbermann, a freelancing media whore. It's the political whores handing out immunity to corporate whores in D.C. that need to be trashed.
Hoa binh
Very disappointing. Olby was the last show to which I paid any attention on the MSM. Good! That's another hour I'll spend reading!
We couldn't vote for Henry Wallace in 48 because that would bring us Dewey. We didn't get Dewey, but Truman gave us his policies.
We couldn't vote for Ralph, because that would give us Bush. Gore actually won but failed to push effectively to prove it.
Now we can't vote for Ralph because that would give it to McCain. But on issue after issue Obama equals McCain.
Wake up, progres