Is an Attack on Iran Imminent?
George W. Bush is poised to order a massive aerial bombardment — possibly including tactical nuclear weapons - of up to 10,000 targets in Iran. The attack would be justified on grounds that Iran is interfering with U.S. efforts in Iraq and that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon, a charge that was debunked last fall in the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE).
According to international experts, the U.S. declared economic war against Iran on March 20. On that day, the U.S. Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) called on the world’s financial institutions to stop doing business with Iran, making it much more difficult for Iran to engage in global commerce.
Now the Bush administration is preparing to drop the other shoe. Below are some of the indications that a U.S. military attack on Iran is imminent:
The March 11 resignation of CENTCOM Commander Admiral William Fallon who, according to a well-publicized Esquire magazine article, “openly opposed Bush’s Iran policy and was a lone voice against taking military action to stop the Iranian nuclear program.”
The recent removal of Vice Admiral John Stufflebeem, Commander of the 6th Fleet (Mediterranean Sea), also known to be a critic of the administration’s war plans.
Two U.S. warships took up positions off Lebanon last month. According to US News & World Report, “The United States would want its warships in the eastern Mediterranean in the event of a military action against Iran.”
The Israeli air strike against Syria last September was advertised as an attack on a nuclear facility. Current speculation is that the real purpose of the raid was to “force Syria to switch on the targeting electronics for newly received Russian anti-aircraft defenses.” Knowing the electronic signatures of these systems would reduce the risks for U.S. and Israeli warplanes heading to Iranian targets.
Israel conducted its largest military exercises ever beginning the week of April 6. This exercise simulated missile strikes from Iran, Lebanon, and Syria. (Note: Both 9/11 and the London subway bombing of 7/7/07 occurred simultaneous by with military and/or civil defense exercises.)
One day after a March visit from Vice President Cheney, the Saudi government announced “national plans to deal with any sudden nuclear and radioactive hazards that may affect the kingdom.” This announcement came following warnings of possible attacks on Iran’s nearby Bushehr nuclear reactors.
According to former U.N. chief weapons inspector Scott Ritter, the Pentagon has contracted for additional bunker-buster bombs and planes that carry them. Delivery is due this month.
The oncoming monsoon season, which would carry radioactive fallout by wind and rain to countries east of Iran (including Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India), narrows the window for the optimal launch of an air attack.
Over the past six months, two major incidents have demonstrated the inadequate security of the U.S. nuclear arsenal. On August 30, 2007, a B-52 Stratofortress bomber carrying 6 AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missiles, each armed with a W-80-1 nuclear warhead, flew an unauthorized mission from Minot AFB in North Dakota to Barksdale AFB in Louisiana. (Barksdale is the major disembarkation point for personnel and materiel going to the Middle East.) This “Bent Spear” incident marked the first time in more than 40 years that nuclear weapons had been flown across the continental United States. A spate of up to eight accidental deaths and suicides of personnel from these two bases adds an ominous twist to this story.
Recently, it was revealed that intercontinental ballistic missile fuses had been sent to Taiwan instead of the helicopter batteries they had ordered. Sharp protests from China forced President Bush to acknowledge the error personally to Chinese Premier Hu Jintao.
As a result of these incidents, Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered a series of investigations, including a recent order for a complete physical inventory of the entire U.S. nuclear arsenal.
The Bush administration is hypocritical in its claims that Iran cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons. Given the Minot/Barksdale incident and the mix-up between ballistic missile fuses and helicopter batteries, the question that should to be asked is: “Can the U.S. be trusted with nuclear weapons?”
According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, a “limited” nuclear attack on the main Iranian underground site in Esfahan would result in three million people killed by radiation within two weeks and 35 million people exposed to dangerous levels of radiation in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India.
Yet another preemptive attack and the devastation of another civilian population would be grossly immoral and in violation of all international codes of conduct. No one can predict how such an attack would end, especially in the tinderbox that is the Middle East. Every patriotic American, and especially every member of Congress, should do whatever is in their power to stop the Bush-Cheney cabal before they drag us into World War III.
Dan Hamburg is a former Democratic US congressperson from northern California. He is currently executive director of Voice of the Environment, a San Francisco based nonprofit.
Copyright © 2008 by Santa Monica Mirror
Hillary Clinton will be very upset should she miss the chance to bomb Iran. She is foaming at the mouth.
The Wall Street Journal has a sidebar saying the US found a large cache of recently manufactured weapons made in Iran.
If we attack Iran it’s all over for us humans, maybe the cockroaches will rebuild the world.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!! And the whole region is already poisoned with Depleted Uranium!
“According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, a “limited” nuclear attack on the main Iranian underground site in Esfahan would result in three million people killed by radiation within two weeks and 35 million people exposed to dangerous levels of radiation in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India”.
Will the American people continue to be sheep,the “Good Americans” for these filthy ,fascist scumbags?
Somebody please educate me. Would an attack on Iran give reason to suspend our next presidential election?
they forgot to mention Bush’s new compound in Paraguay, where the Cheney Bush Cabal would escape to in order to avoid extradition, just like their heros, the NAZIS did
IS this the important work that IMPEACHMENT would have delayed?
THANKS NANCY YOU BITCH
It is hard to imagine Bush ordering any attack of any size, and even harder to imagine John McCain inheriting The White House and being able to actually “handle” the aftermath.
The only way this war against Iran can be stopped is for tens of millions of Americans to take to the streets.
Since it did not work with 20 million people throughout the world before the invasion of Iraq, this time the numbers need to be more than doubled in the U.S.
The leaders behind the last anti-war protest must give us the TIME and DAY so that we all, including those millions who did not do so before but NOW regret it, can hit the streets for non-violent civil disobedience.
It must be done now! It is the only way to stop this insane idea of attacking Iraq. It is the only way to return democracy and sanity to the U.S.
I expect this sort of lunacy from the conservative cabal in power. If this attack does happen, I am holding the democrats responsible for not stopping it.
If you so-called “liberals” who read commondreams are tired of having blood on your hands, try voting Green Party.
www.GP.org
If this happens, America will have come full circle to Fascism. We will be the new Nazi Amerika. The people in Congress that took an oath to uphold our Constitution will be guilty of the highest treason.
Of course Cheney/Bush are going to attack Iran before they leave office–if they leave office. If Congress had done its job and impeached them both, this could have been avoided. But the Dems are too spineless and the Reps are a bunch of goose stepping brown shirts, so we’ll get what our insane dictator and his goolish puppet master want. I’ve had it with this government, and to be honest, I’ve had it with the American public. What the hell does it take these days to stir a sense of outrage in the American people?! If what we’ve had for seven years doesn’t, then nothing will. So you know what that means…we deserve whatever Cheney/Bush throw our way.
Are they going to be sneaky and attack Iran suddenly, without a prior propaganda campaign to change public opinion? At least when they attacked Iraq they had the “courtesy” of “explaining” to the American public why such an attack was necessary. In 2003 we were at least important enough that they cared about what we thought. Five years later, do they not care anymore? Because if they don’t care about what the public thinks, it means that basically they have no restraint whatsoever. That is pretty scary.
Cicero - I don’t think they need “permission” this time. They have been amping this up for more than a year, and are putting the compliant players in place to carry our their orders, and I can see that twisted murderer bush coming on TV, from the oval office, with the flags in the background, announcing like he did in March of 2003, just the name of the country will change - “on my orders, the attacks to rid Iran of their Nuclear weapons programs have begun”.
The dems won’t/can’t stop them, bushcon is taking us all down with them, like madmen racing in a bus for the cliff.
It is the end times.
I’ll be glad to take it to the streets - tell me WHERE and WHEN - the time is NOW!
Let’s put all democrats on notice that impeachment off the table & not stopping this nonsense is going to cost them - we cannot vote for them if they won’t stop this madness! This includes Obama or Clinton.
dancingfool, the answer to you question is yes.
My memory may be faulty (as it is on occasion), but hasn’t Congress already passed a bill which gives President Bush the authority to do whatever he deems necessary when dealing with Iran? And, didn’t Senator Clinton vote for said bill?
No offense to anyone, but this site has been posting “imminent attack on Iran” stories for a few years now so I’m not feeling too alarmed just yet over these most recent events. Wake me when a bomb is actually dropped.
The Asshole-in-Chief doesn’t care about the NIE, congress, or American public opinion. They can just swamp the media with lies, spins, and patriotic propaganda, and the media will serve as the biggest resonating chamber you’ve ever heard. The American people have no spirit of radicalism or resistance left to oppose their own tyrants. “Speaking truth to power” has become co-opted by them and sounds as Orwellian as “War is Peace”,etc… The best chance of pre-empting an attack on Iran is if Putin says, “Unh-uh, it ain’t gonna happen on my watch.”
cicero-
Don’t forget the tactical benefit of another false flag attack on the US. This time it will be so horrifying that nobody will dare speak out against the “reprisals” these war criminals have in mind for Iran. As 9/11 proved, it is far easier to sell “retaliation” than aggression.
It’s coming. My advice: If you haven’t started building a lifeboat for yourself and those you care about (food, water, the comfort and security of community with like-minded people) then don’t waste another minute. Get on it.
Here’s the reality we must all learn to live with: Today is better than tomorrow.
dancingfool, the answer to your question is NO, …NO, only if you and your similar minded friends take to the streets.
pnac-Thanks for the asia times link yesterday concerning the March 20 ‘declaration of war.’
They may figure a full-scale propaganda campaign wouldn’t be worth the trouble. Bush now has the lowest approval rating of any president in recent history and the economy is going down the crapper. The American people have other things on their mind now, like being able to afford food. It would be easier just to attack Iran and let it be a surprise, then tell the people that Iran posed a direct threat to U.S. troops and that they didn’t have time to warn us. The result of an attack would be, as others have pointed out, a catastrophe, but I wouldn’t entirely rule it out the possibility. Bush isn’t exactly famous for taking the sensible route.
They may figure a full-scale propaganda campaign wouldn’t be worth the trouble. Bush now has the lowest approval rating of any president in recent history and the economy is going down the crapper. The American people have other things on their mind now, like being able to afford food. It would be easier just to attack Iran and let it be a surprise, then tell the people that Iran posed a direct threat to U.S. troops and that they didn’t have time to warn us. The result of an attack would be, as others have pointed out, a catastrophe, but I wouldn’t entirely rule it out the possibility. Bush isn’t exactly famous for taking the sensible route.
To Paul Revere:
Your comment:
“If this happens, America will have come full circle to Fascism. We will be the new Nazi Amerika. The people in Congress that took an oath to uphold our Constitution will be guilty of the highest treason.”
I must disagree. Amerika has already become fully the new Nazi power in the world, with a complicit media posing as “fair and balanced” and an illegally “elected” Fuhrer in Chief at the helm. “You’re either with us or against us” was spoken by Hitler long before Bush and the Devil took control of the country. It’s truly time for “one if by stolen election two if by illegally started war of aggression in Iraq” shouted loud and clear from every rooftop (I’m mad as HELL and I’m not going to take this any more)
It’s all too clear that the Reichstag fire was started by Hitler’s supporters. Historians 20 years from now will CERTAINLY reveal that 9/11 was initiated by the same fascicts who call themselves the GOP. The towers might have been hit by Arab “terrorists” (working for the PNAC not Al Q) but they were brought down by controlled demolition and the suckers ready for revenge were easliy led to start murdering Iraqis.
No attack on Iran would be imminent if the arrest of the Bush/Cheny cabal was. That is isn’t makes every member of this government personally liable of all crimes committed.
Intelligent and informed people will prepare now for the worst. Stock up on food, water, and medicine before there is a run on the stores. If Iran is bombed their oil flow will stop. Venezuela will redirect it’s oil away from America. Russia may limit supplies to America or even stop them. Our financial system, already weakened, will suffer seriously. Things can unravel fast. If things turn out not to be serious then at least your family is ready. The run on rice is a clear example of what is to come. Do not delay. Take your money out of the bank before there is a run on banks and they close for a month. Get ready. Get ready today.
I dread the thought of a USA invasion of Iran. The only way to “win” a war with Iran is to nuke them. Iran is a nation of between 70 and 80 million people. People think Iraq was bad that will be nothing compared to Iran. Indeed, millions of Iranians will die from this. Why? Because members of the USA Government wants to be hypocrites? I mean… it makes ZERO sense for the uSA to invade Iran unless the USA wants to be a bully and create another mess in Southwest Asia.
So the USA does not want to give Iran the benefit of the doubt huh? Well… that is the problem of the USA for the simple fact that the USA chose not to give Iran the benefit of the doubt. Was it not true that when the USA invaded Iraq, it was to help the Shiites overthrow Saddam. The USA should have known that this course of action would benefit Iran. Now that Iran is reaping the benefits, as it were, now the USA is upset? Ummmm…Is stupidity an American virtue as well as vengeance?
As to the alleged weapons dealing inside Iraq by Iran: The USA sells weapons to Iraq also. Is not Iran allowed to make some money? At least the Iranians, assuming that they are selling weapons, are selling them only to the Shiites. In contrast, the USA sells weapons to both Sunnis and Shiites without any understanding or decision making on who is friend and foe.
Which brings me to my final point. When a nation invades another nation, it is critical to know who the enemy is. No flip-flopping on who is friend and foe. Decide who the enemy is and stick with it. Ok USA? This is just some friendly advice before you invade Iran. After all, not deciding who was friend and foe before invasions caused the USA defeat in Vietnam and the inevitable defeat in Iraq. So USA, decide who is the enemy in nations you invade and stick with that decision. Ok? Good…
Now, let the nuclear destruction of one of the most influential cultures in Human History begin, courtesy of the number one terrorist nation and arms dealer in the world.
“A cargo ship hired by the U.S. military fired warning shots at approaching boats in the Gulf, the U.S. Navy said on Friday, underscoring tension in the region as the Pentagon sharpened its warnings to Iran.”
There’s a new twist - now “we” can claim “we’re” ONLY protecting “USA interests” or “coalition interests” or “the free flow of whatever.” No, no, no - it’s not “war,” man - 75 military analysts on CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, and CBS are saying Cheneybush are doing all they can diplomatically, honest to betsy, really. And retired military personnel would never lie, would they? Whether they’re getting paid huge bucks from defense contractors and such or not - military = truth.
But… Adm. Fallon, any comment sir? “Get serious. They’re ants (75 million Iranians.) WHEN the time comes, we’ll crush them.”
WHEN, he said. Not if. WHEN. “Serious” people, like Hillary, are ready to “obliterate” and/or crush the ants, WHEN the time comes.
Tick… tick… tick…
Ok. This is insane. The US is preparing to launch another unprovoked, illegal war and the world is doing NOTHING. It’s business as usual in the “international community”.
Washington Post Headline
“Joint Chiefs Chairman Says U.S. Preparing Military Options Against Iran”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/25/AR2008042501480.html
By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 25, 2008; 1:51 PM
“The nation’s top military officer said today that the Pentagon is planning for “potential military courses of action” against Iran, criticizing what he called the Tehran government’s “increasingly lethal and malign influence” in Iraq……..etcetra, etcetera, etcetera”
And so it goes!!!!!
It’s almost time to sit down, put your head between your lega and kiss your a___ goodbye!!!!
Okay so plane into buildings, bad. Nukes dropped on cities, good, right? The only way the Public is going to wake up is if there is a draft. Once it is their child going without signing up for it, then they will be outraged. Not until then.
captn72
it’s true, the threats of war have been around for years - all the more reason to focus attention on the events as they unravel.
———————————————–
the war w/ iran could begin in numerous ways: the small boats in the gulf, the exaggerated nuclear threat, the nebulous relationships b/w iraqi resisters and teheran, or a border dispute b/w syria and israel…
The March to War: Israel Prepares for War against Lebanon and Syria
by Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya. 4/19/08
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8727
the US is trying to decouple iran’s regional allies…….
“Syria and Iran are part of a strategic alliance in the Middle East resisting the interests of America, Britain, Israel, France, and Germany. Other Middle Eastern players resisting the same foreign interests are additionally allied or associated with Syria and Iran within one tangible bloc, the Resistance Bloc. [20] It is in this context that one understands Israel is not pursuing peace with Syria, but is threatening the Syrians with war if they do not abandon Iran and their allies.”
it’s a mammoth chess game…
“In this regard, Damascus serves as the central link that holds together the forces resisting a new regional order in the Middle East, also known as the “Project for the New Middle East.”
What the Israelis have been trying to do, in coordination with the U.S., Britain, France, and Germany is to remove Syria from these alliances and thus splinter or break the link between Iran and the Levant. The main goal is to pressure Syria into making a peaceful political surrender (just as Libya did to Britain and the U.S. in 2003), and to distance itself from Iran and the Arab resistance within Palestine and Lebanon to Israel”
the clock is ticking, there are only a few more moves before the next player takes the chair.
cheney/bush have already demonstrated they’re not concerned w/ public opinion, either domestically or internationally. they play aggressively, clumsily, with little concern about the aftermath. yet the potential consequences of war w/ iran far outweigh the folly and destruction we’re witnessing in iraq.
will turkey (nato) participate in the bombing campaign? how will russia respond?
…peace…
a “limited” nuclear attack on the main Iranian underground site in Esfahan would result in three million people killed by radiation within two weeks
Absolute insanity even to contemplate committing such a crime, what would be the b iggest crime in all history.
Yes, it is the fault of the ignorant American people that we have a government that thinks about and may well commit this crime, but it is at this point also the fault of the entire world. It is the moral responsibility of every adult human on the planet to oppose George Bush, yet only Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro have spoken out. Other leaders stand in the background like buzzards waiting their turn to feast on carrion as a rabid jackal tears at its prey.
We must see scores of cities shut down across the globe by a billion people demanding peace. When? Will Denver this summer be soon enough? What will spark the global outrage that is needed to avert global catastrophe?
It hardly seems to me that the long list of circumstance indicative of war preparation can be purely bluff. I don’t see any advantage to Bush in making such an elaborate bluff, and I conclude that the preparations for war are genuine.
I could see bush launching an immediate strike on Iran, if impeachment was filed against him and cheney. Otherwise I could see them launching agianst Iran if/when Obama wins the primary. I could also see them nuking Iran if someone on a small boat shoots at a yank ship (they don’t even have to be Iranians).
It also depends on if bush really really wants to be the president for the rest of his life, if he does than he’s got to go to war in order to cancel the constitutional requirement that he step down. Like the first George, bush is the most dangerous man on earth, unlike Washington I think this George wants to rule forever…
hakori wrote: “I’ve had it with this government, and to be honest, I’ve had it with the American public. What the hell does it take these days to stir a sense of outrage in the American people?!”
-
What will it take? What did it take for the Germans to come to their senses in the 1940s?
I have read, though, that Britain was a dominant trading power at that time and played a role in preventing the Germans from increasing their living standards, creating a push for war. Still, the war was insane, as was Hitler, and afterwards the allied soldiers forcibly “dragged” the German people towards the mounds of human carcasses they were indirectly responsible for. Americans need to be shown the same mounds of carcasses in Iraq. They haven’t been, so Bush has free reign to attack Iran, and kill another million people, if he pleases.
Humans are humans, unfortunately, and the American people are no different to the German people.
“They”‘ve been working behind the scenes since before Reagan was elected, and they’ve finally gotten all their ducks in a row. We The People are nothing more than all those other ants. So what if millions are killed by their insanity. Like all ants, you kill a million and there’ll be two million more to replace them.
REF: The only way this war against Iran can be stopped is for tens of millions of Americans to take to the streets. Since it did not work with 20 million people throughout the world before the invasion of Iraq, this time the numbers need to be more than doubled in the U.S.
The leaders behind the last anti-war protest must give us the TIME and DAY so that we all, including those millions who did not do so before but NOW regret it, can hit the streets for non-violent civil disobedience. It must be done now! It is the only way to stop this insane idea of attacking Iraq. It is the only way to return democracy and sanity to the U.S.
Please tell me the time and place. I will be there along with all of my friends.
REF: Let’s put all democrats on notice that impeachment off the table & not stopping this nonsense is going to cost them - we cannot vote for them if they won’t stop this madness! This includes Obama or Clinton.
But who else can we vote for if not Obama or Clinton? McCain has already said we can stay in the current war for 100 years.
The End of America
http://carolynbaker.net/site/content/view/135/
William Odom is a retired US Army three-star general, and former Director of the National Security Agency, under President Ronald Reagan. He testified on April 2, 2008, before Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Iraq. His statements are devastating to Bush’s failed war policy and the arguments for prolonging the war.
Here is the full text of his testimony
http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2341971921/m/3640008771001
To Capt72;The US has been provoking Iran for some time now with massive firepower close to their coast.Were the situation reversed-the vast majority of US citizens would be urging strikes against Iran.So if no bombs have fallen yet it’s because of restraint by the Iranians-those people termed part of the Axis of Evil by the shrub.
As others have pointed out-Russia and China would likely get involved after any major strike against Iran.The US is being led by a cabal of some of the most reckless politicians in history.There is nothing close to sufficient reason to have escalated the situation to this point-and even if there is a standdown so much damage has done to the world’s economy that a full recovery will be unlikely.And the US will never be forgiven-certainly by Muslims-and by most of the rest of the world.But we always will have Israel-on their terms and at the world’s eternal peril!
Dan, are you considering running for congress again in CA 1st congressional district? In the Green Party this time? With Cindy Sheehan in SF and you in the First, maybe there is hope yet (but not of the Obama kind).
captn72 - it is because Cheney keeps trying to get his wish. Part of the reason for the articles is to see through the latest Cheney scam for “justifying” an attack on Iran.
McCain is more popular than Bush is right now - and it would be nice if McCain can “concede” that such a strike is “neccerry.”
“a cabal of some of the most reckless politicians in history”
Exactly clever. These morons are driven by extremist religious ideas as well as extremist world domination ideas. It’s time we did a genrl str!ke to demand that these irresponsible idiots step down and that includes the irresponsible idiots on the supreme court who put them there. They need to step down and be investigated and jailed for treason. The corporate greed monsters, the religious zealots do not have this country’s best interest in mind. How many of us think Israelis are the master race? How many Americans even know where Israel is on the map? Why fight another war for oil and Middle Eastern Religion? Enough is enough.
If I’m not mistaken, a nuclear warhead was loaded onto a plane and flown halfway across the United States before anyone even realized that there was a mix-up. How is that responsible?
Why does no one mention the most obvious fact of all? Why on earth would Iran…even if it had nuclear weapons…attack Israel when it would mean certain destruction for itself? Israel has a strong nuclear weapons capability, not to mention the USA with its Trident subs and vast quantities of other nuclear weapons. The Cold War proved that mutually assured mass destruction worked in its own idiotic way.
Is this the ultimate nightmare- that this country will mass-bomb another country with nuclear weapons under these circumstances…? The horrendous consequences will surely be immeasurable, and could well include the start of WWIII.
Can this really be happening?
erbalist asked on April 25th, 2008 at 3:28 pm: “If I’m not mistaken, a nuclear warhead was loaded onto a plane and flown halfway across the United States before anyone even realized that there was a mix-up. How is that responsible?”
Ah yes… but there’s much more to the story than that… there’s:
Initial reports of 6 weapons on board, suddenly becoming 5 weapons on board… what happened to the other nuke?
Mysterious Deaths of several people involved in the supposed Mistake
The sheer unlikelihood of the VERY STRICT chain of custody that is implemented FAILING so miserably. Just like the Failure of NORAD to scramble any planes on 9/11… highly unlikely.
So if you are all convinced that Obama is not our best chance (no guarantee) but the best shot we got to stop this madness than go ahead and help McCain and Don’t vote or vote for Nader or whoever has no chance at all.
Than you will all have done your part to make sure all your fears are realized.
I think this is just a scare tactic to give McCain the win by saying “see we are still all alive because Little George and the Elephants stood down our enemies…. the Jackasses”.
It that simple really because that is the only way out for these war criminals.
What good does it do you all to fall for the fear…be afraid be very afraid…and then when nothing happens you well feel like all the Doom predictors who just claim when the sky does not fall “Oh our timing was just off, but the end is still near!”
Well guess what… If your fear is realized, 100 million marching in the streets ain’t goin to stop these war criminals because they have proven to you time and time again that they don’t care about your protests…they would rather have you panic and stay out of their way or vote for someone who won’t get counted.
If the big one comes we can’t stop it anyway… fear is how fascism works and you are all falling in line by spreading it.
But don’t forget to vote Nader, He well stop this War before the election.
All this hyped fear helps those who are selling fear to get elected, and you know by now who those candidates are.
They talk about “annihilation”.
I am just as afraid of what Fascist fear is doing to posters here and our country than what Bush is doing now.
If I am wrong it won’t matter because there is nothing we can do about it.
Even if Congress impeached which you all know won’t happen, Bush would dismiss the whole bunch because Congress gave him the power to do it already.
So be afraid if it helps.
I will live, love and be happy cause tomorrow we may die, but I don’t really think so.
Contractors and American soldiers routinely shoot the wrong people. President Bush, Senator McCain and Senator Clinton either have shot or would shoot the wrong countries.
Do we need more loose cannons? I think not.
The sum of all fears. The USA–and hence, the world, poised on a new Great Depression-brought about by what is euphemistically called “deregulation.” The owners of capital, bankers, investors, industrialists-poised to profit by the “shaking out” a depression allows. And WAR–ALWAYS the FIRST RESORT of Capital. ALWAYS the BREAD to the elite. Here it comes, boys and girls. Iran is first. Syria. Even Egypt. There will be a “terror” attack on the USA. Or possibly an ally. Martial law? Here it comes.
STAND UP NOW.
I heard Richard Greene on Air America Radio question John Conyers vigorously about impeachment just a few weeks ago. After some evasive answers, he eventually claimed that impeachment was being held in reserve as leverage against an attack on Iran. He said that Congress would impeach immediately upon such an attack, and that the threat had been communicated to Bush.
I think if it’s even true, Conyers is living in a fantasy world if he thinks Bush would take a threat from Congress seriously. Has he met Bush?
I read the article re. the nuclear flyover mentioned by erbalist and elmysterio above; however, I’m sure where I read it. I don’t remember it being an accident, though I may be wrong. I did read that the U.S. “accidentally ship some nuclear bomb fuses to Taiwan; the shipment was supposed to be helicopter batteries (supposedly).
The nuclear story that really disturbed me was in yesterday’s (4/24) USA newspaper in the Nationline section on page 3A.
“Utah governor to block Italian nuke waste
Utah Gov. Joh Humtsman reversed his stance and said he will block the shipment o Italian nucleaar waste to a desert dumpsite in his state.
Huntsman had said the federal government should decide where to dispose of such foreign waste. On Wednesday, he said he has changed his mind because the federal government has been slow to adopt a policy to block foreign radioactive waste. EnergySolutons has asked the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for permission to store 1,600 toms of low-level waste from Italy at a dump about 70 miles west of Salt Lake City.”
It seems that we will import anything, as long as there is a buck to be made by some corporation. For example, lead laden/deadly toys and tainted deadlier medicine from China.
What was the reason were given, as to the reason we shouldn’t be going to Canada or other foreign nations to get our drugs/medications? Theirs isn’t as safe as ours. I wonder how many people in this country know that some of the critical medications they are receiving is actually coming from China. I knew that I was getting some that were made in Ireland, by Pfizer Pharmaceuticals (who recently abandoned their very large facilities in Ann Arbor, Michigan).
amen canuckchuck - The moment Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table (and that was the FIRST THING she did) it was a inviting even more criminal behavior.
daniel david - why is it hard to imagine an attack on Iran of any size? It would be monstrously stupid and criminal,
but look at the record.
elmysterio - that’s a good question. What IS the rest of the world doing? I believe it is our responsibility as US citizens to stop them but dammit we could use some help.
minecritter says: “I think if it’s even true, Conyers is living in a fantasy world if he thinks Bush would take a threat from Congress seriously. Has he met Bush?”
I say: Has Conyers met Congress? What a bunch of nothing.
“however, I’m sure where I read it” should read “however, I’m NOT sure where I read it”
Sorry ’bout that.
Hello out there in CD land. This is Osama Bin Laden. I am writing to you thru
this email i’ve hijacked on this most wonderful web site. I love the internet.
The internet, in its own way, sorts out the bullshit, i call it camel shit, and
discards it. Should the United States, aka, “the great satan” attack Iran?
Yes, i endorse this. Please do it now instead of tomorrow. Your government,
under The Bush, needs a lesson on how to live “together” on a tiny blue planet.
Yes, my dear bush, attack Iran. Drive oil prices maybe to five a gallon over the
summer when we all, out here, try to make a buck. A war, no lets give some of
the writers on this board some credit, an invasion of Iran. A third occupation
after afghanistan and iraq. Only Iran has a much bigger population and a dedicated
military. Maybe we could increase our war debt from the projected 3 frickin trillion
to six trillion frickin dollars. Would that get anyone’s attention outside of the oil
companies who have been making record profits in the last many quarters. I fricking hope so.
Vote Obama and then get on his team to make sure he keeps his promises.
Doug Lago,you may be right,but I tend to agree with Ron Paul and Jesse Ventura that we still can save the country because we have a what they call: “a soft form of fascism”. Having said that, you have it correct my friend.
What will the million plus Iranian ex pats in the US do, if the US use nuclear weapons against their relations?
Will the rest of the Islamic World just sit back and Watch?
If you thought 9/11 was bad, then just wait and pray that you don’t overstep the mark.
Help! Anyone on this page from Britian and other countries, please get your governments to threaten sanctions against the US if we attack Iran.
www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/09/3071/ - 71k
Your answer.
Another brawl in the sinking lifeboat.
~JOHN BENGSTON~ asked, “If we bombed Iran, would that give reason to suspend the next presidential election?”
I don’t believe it would John, but the ensuing depression we’d experience most cetrainly would. If we have a depression for any reason Bush would have to inact presidential directive #51 and when he does that, President Bush would officially become King George. He’s already our king but it isn’t offical.
Our military does’t have to use thermo-nuclear bombs, we now have the DU (”Big Blue”) a truly awsome shock and awe bomb and of course other DU bunker buster bombs, which essentially are small atomic bombs with tons of deadly radioactive dust blown out into the atmosphere when they’re exploded and the deadly microscopic dust circles the globe.
There are several things that will transpire if we bomb, bomb Iran, and NONE of them are good. Russia and China have already openly warned they would support Iran if we did such an insane thing. They won’t just sit and watch that disaster without reacting in some fashion. Perhaps not militarily, but there are many things they can do to help plop our economy to the bottom, as it’s already racing down that slippery slope.
Some here have posted that they’ve heard this possible attack on Iran for years and it’s just more talk. ___ Well, I think the Author knows what he’s talking about and he’s no dummy. Wnen one stacks up all the chips, Fallon gone now, Betray-us replaced him, etc, etc, it sure don’t look very promising. ____ We’ll see.
$5 bucks a gallon for gasoline ~RANDOLFSKI~? It’s already $9 a gallon in Europe, of course that includes 80% taxes. I can see it going to $25 a gallon here, if we could even find any to buy.
Argentina would cut us off entirely for one thing. I’d suspect all countries would stop shipping food to us and now we import about 45% of our food. If Cheney Bush do it, we’ll beome a forth world nation, that has an arsenal of atomic weapons and the means to deliver them. ___ Scary, and very tragic.
Rich - You must still be clinging to your Republican unthink! How in the hell can Hillary and Obama stop the fools in the White House? Or rather, if you think they, either of them, can stop it, then why don’t you? Do it now? I’ll bet you helped elect the idiots that’s there now!
ok so everyone here seems to think the world, as in China, Russia and all the other Non-us-aligned countries are gonna stand there and watch the USA nuke or invade Iran.. that is what is scary…they ARE NOT going to let them just do it .. the nukes are gonna fly.. Ukraine, who have most of the old solviet block nukes will not hesitate to launch them if the US or Israel goes ahead with the planned attacks.. china will not let the western imperialist get a free ride they will let fly some of their nukes, as well as pour literally millions of ground troops into the region…
get ready for the fireworks.. and as the old cold war adage went..
jim
canada
jim_murray@jdz.ca
IN CASE OF NUCLEAR ATTACK;
Remove glasses and sharp objects from your person
crouch in a Doorway or other structurally strong place
put your head between your knees
and the line they never added,,” and kiss your ass goodbye”
ps. the wingnut religious zealots won’t have long to wait for Armageddon
Keyinside: Way to go!
Rich Griffin and Ginger:
I don’t know what section of the US you live in, but by now, it doesn’t matter. Come next Thursday May 1st, the ILWU (the longshoreman’s union) will shut down all 26 ports on the west coast for one day to protest our “involvement” in Iraq. From the Mexican border up to the Canadian border. This is a worker’s movement and ALL working men and women, non-union as well as union are invited to participate if you are against the crimes waged on the Iraqi people. Whether you live in Maine or Georgia, or Texas, New York or wherever, feel free to support these brave male and female longies by not working next Thursday. You want to make a positive change, it means being active, and informed. Two gentlemen will tell you more about this event. Go to www.kpfa.org and hit programs and scroll down to ‘Living Room’ and click on ‘past shows’ and click on Thurs. Apr. 24 (yesterday). Jack and the good Clarence will fill you in for about a half-hour.
CORRECTION: Last night on two other articles, I said it was next Friday rather than Thursday. Sorry for the mistake.
First, KEM, I think you meant Venezula, not Argentina if you were talking about gasoline/oil.
Second, I agree with Doom & Gloom. I’ve been screaming, e-mailing, protesting, signing petitions, and every other thing I can do to stop the current occupation Iraq, an invasion of Iran, for fair elections, and impeachment. FISA is a big deal but all that we have accomplished is to stall the inevitable. The only “win” we have had is to stop Blackwater in Pescadero, CA. I won’t stop doing what I have been doing for years, but I KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that all my efforts are in vein. So I have spent part of my time and dollars over the last year also getting ready for the inevitable. I’m no longer afraid. I’m not even scared. All I can do is all I can do, and all I can do is enough.
Look folks, nothing and nobody can save us. Even Fallon couldn’t stop this mess in Iran. “They” don’t have the answers even if “they” gave two figs about America or the people of the world. The only thing that matters at this point is your family, your neighbors and your community. Even if I don’t survive, at least I will perish amoung friends.
Oh, and for those of you calling all American citizens to the barracades, just let me know when. I’ll be there. Here in my community. And believe me, I may be old, but I can make a hell of a lot of noise! And I’ll bring some food along with my big mouth!
If Bush took such an action, say goodbye to independent voices on TV (Amy Goodman, KO, Bill Moyers, etc), say goodbye to a neutral internet… or perhaps any internet. Say goodbye to affordable food, gas, and home energy. And say goodbye to democracy, even any illusion thereof.
For if the US did bomb Iran, the rest of the world, especially the Muslim world, would then pose such a risk to US security that Bush would soon “be forced” to declare a “police state of emergency.” Indefinitely. Giving himself the power to control the media, communications network, interstate and international trade, and elections.
This course of events is not likely but it is possible. What’s scarier? The prospect that this might happen, or the fact that it is no longer beyond of the realm of possibility?
Hey, Peaceman, I like it! I’ll spend the day hanging out in my garden.
Rebel Farmer: Good for you! I already told the company I’m going up to San Francisco for the rally and the march. The longie (male and female) drill team is something to see. Hope we get a big turnout. Thanks, Rebel.
Randolfski ,your funny!But your right, even Hillary is rolling out O.B.L. Get ready cause here it comes an October surprise! We are in for an interesting summer and fall.May we all live in interesting times!But honestly folks is the military really that stupid? Does shrub wanna apocalypse? Or just a quiet private wedding for Jenna and a gracefull(sic) exit to Paraguay? peas in
If tomorrow all the things were gone
I’d worked for all my life
And I had to start again
with just my children and my wife,
I’d thank my lucky stars
to be living here today
Cause the flag still stands for freedom
and they can’t take that away.
I remember that song coming out right after 9/11 and how I felt and we all felt when the wave of patriotism swept through us. And to think the words of this song make me want to throw up shows me how much bush has tarnished this country in our own eyes and the worlds eyes.IMPEACH!!!!
Do you people have any backbone? What do you mean, if Bush does this or if Bush does that. This country doesn’t belong to Bush, Cheney, Blackwater, or the biggest lying hypocrites in our nation’s history: the racketeers also known as republicans and democrats. THIS IS MY COUNTRY and YOUR COUNTRY, LADIES and GENTLEMEN. (Forgive the capitol letters. I don’t want to get reprimanded like the person writing everything that way.)
If we don’ unite and fight…then all those who lost life, limb, and were afflicted with post traumatic stress disorder (it wasn’t “termed” then) fighting fascism and imperialism in WW2 did do so in vain.
Hey, I’m scared of my own shadow, but enough is enough! I wrote about being backed against the wall on one of these articles last night. Same thing applies. George Washington lost battle after battle for the first year, but did he give up? The Soviet Union lost more people in the Battle of Stalingrad than the United States lost in all of WW2 fighting the “superman” and the “samuri.” Did the Russians whine like children or did they fight for THEIR country?
History tells us 19 civilizations fell from within, only three (?) were conqured from without. The choice is ours.
IMPEACH both BUSH and CHENEY…………….IMMEDIATELY
RE: First, KEM, I think you meant Venezula, not Argentina if you were talking about gasoline/oil.
Rebel Farmer - it is Alberta that supplies most of your gasoline/oil and Harper threatening to shut off the taps (fawcetts?) at the end of that SPP/Three Amigos meeting was just for show.
Think of it, if the Repugs didn’t think that McCain could win, they would not need an excuse to bomb Iran.
I wonder how long it took them to go through photo graphs and photographs before they found those matching pictures. They would be more credible going after Harold and Kumar - especially after putting Marc Emery in prison.
Yes, I meant Venezula, thanks.
I don’t believe atomic bombs would be used in an air assault on Iran, at least not initially. They might if Iran took out one of our aircraft carriers with anti-ship missiles and the Iranians have plenty of those.
I don’t see China or Russia answering with nukes unlees we used them first. I do see where China may team up with North Korea again and invade South Korea and at the same time attack Taiwan. lots of scenerios are possible. It could develop into WW Three and a full blown nuke war.
I personally don’t foresee WW Three starting unless nukes are used by our military. I’d predict it is most likely our having a depresion if we attack Iran and Bush declaring Martial law and taking over everything. He won’t be able to stop the anarchy and rioting, the burning of cites which will occur.
Be prepared to flee the cities and if you don’t have any food, be prepared to go hungry. If you don’t have a full tank of gas, be prepared to hike fairly soon, if you do have a full tank, be prepared to hike eventually. If you have some bikes to haul along, better haul them. Practice camping out and count the stars at night, ___ every American’s dream. If yu make it to the mountains, you can watch the pretty red glow in the sky from massive fires.___ Not a pretty picture, hope none here have any infants. Take your pets, eventually you wil need food.
Is there a thread here with some fun things to discuss?
Peaceman,
What does “uniting and fighting” mean, exactly? How do you envision that? I’m not implying that it can’t happen, but it sounds rather vague. Whom do we fight, when and how?
john bengtson:
The answer to the question of “Can Bush suspend the 2008 presidental elections”, is yes. I believe it is in the Presidental Directive 51 (but don’t quote me on that). But the answer is a firm affirmative!
If the idea of winning in the Middle East is a pacified Iraq under foreign occupation, forget it. That’s never going to happen. But that is not the objective of the capitalist ruling class (see Tony Blair’s consultations with Rupert Murdoch in the days before the war and the list of attendees at Cheney’s energy policy meetings, Ken Lay, ExxonMobil, etal.). They’re after control of Middle East oil, whether that means having it themselves or denying it to other capitalist powers (see the 11.9% growth of the Chinese economy this past quarter).
They have 160,000 US troops on the ground there. Another 130,000 armed mercenaries they refer to as “contractors” and several thousand troops from stooge countries like Britain and Poland. Three naval battle groups are lurking in the Persian Gulf awaiting the order to secure Iranian oil.
Domestically they are scrambling politically for delay until an attack on Iran whips up the inevitable war fever. After that there will be no questioning government policy, if martial law is not declared. Certainly elections will be nixed as a luxury we just cannot afford.
When our bourgeois democracy is shut down completely soon, an insurgency will become our only option. We must enlist people and accept the leadership of people in this insurgency without regard to race or nationality. Unbeknownst to most oppressed white workers in this country, unity with his/her African-American, Hispanic and immigrant counterparts is the only hope of salvation. Racism and xenophobia and every other tactic of division have been the lifeblood of capitalism with good reason. Our unity is the only potentially deadly threat to this system. White supremacy, religious fundamentalism, sexism, homophobia, and all the crackpot schemes and nihilistic cults of the bourgeoisie, like al-Qaeda, are dead ends for all of us.
Inthenow:
#one) UNITING. I’m weary of polls, but if 70%, give or take a few percentage points, of Americans are against the invasion and occupation of Iraq, for example, are against the disregard for Constitutional government and adherence to the Amendments starting with the Bill of Rights by this administration and the collaboraters in Congress, the checking and balancing of the three branches of federal government policed by the elected representatives of the people, torture as official doctrine, armed military aggression against innocent people, contempt for and violation of treaties our country is signatory to, violations of International Laws accepted by most nations on this globe, a disregard for the Geneva Convention and mockery of it, condoning mercenary companies and labeling them “security services”, kidnapping people and calling it “extraordinary rendition”, gutting social services, gutting the infrastructure within our borders, preventing government scientists from reporting the truth pertaining to research results, bankrupting the Treasury with fiscal recklessness, and giving the Pentagon and CIA enormous power without restraints, spying on who knows who?, another violation of our civil rights. I could continue, but we’ll fall asleep reading.
#two) FIGHTING. There are various ways to fight the battle which needs to be won if we actually want “freedom” and “liberty”, “democracy” and the usual words denoting these principals. We can take up the sword and the musket as was done beteen 1861-65 in ‘The War Between The States’ or by less violent means. As a commited pacifist, I prefer the friendly way. The coordinated unity of working people standing together for the common good. In my experience and what I have read, the quickest path would be a gentle nationwide stryke of the workforce. Its very effective! It even worked with Danish factory workers during the nazi occupation. It wasn’t a strike but they conned the Germans in leaving the plant before the end of the shift. The Danes literally shut down the shop! So far we have seen two ways to fight. Another way would be for people in the armed forces not participate in illegal “crimes against humanity,” certainly described in the Nuremberg Trials. What if military personnel realized how they were being manipulated and used for criminal activity and started “walking off the job in large numbers?” Another way to “FIGHT.”
I’m dreaming of a Patriot in Congress taking out Bush and Cheney (sung to the tune of ‘White Christmas’). They would have the element of surprise, and would change the course of History.
Imminent in the sense of October Surprise and ripe because there is not yet a spokesman for the opposition until the Democrats come up with a one. Al Gore would be fine in the event of a calamity or other necessity for compromise, but while we bicker, W’s brain is still ticking. We have created a new superpower called Haliburton or something, with it’s own private blackwater army, headquartered in Qattar, with U.S. taxpayer dollars and a printing press. The “real” America needs to get off it’s fat arse and go to war on it or we’ll forever be the host to that parasite, leaving our government as it’s mediator to us.
Iran, Iraq = Axis of Oil
Bush/Cheney = Oilmen
Nuking Iran = war for profit
= crimes against humanity
GOOD MORNING AMERICA !!!! I’m writing to you from FRANCE (you remember us, those “cheese-eathing surrender monkeys” from not so long ago, the same people who warned you about staying out of Vietnam and about avoiding any kind of an occupation in muslim countries (aka “Algeria”).
Years ago, my very first course in Poly Sci 101 taught me that “Fascist regimes such as Nazi Germany and others ARE NOT RESPONSIVE TO MASSIVE PROTESTS BY THEIR CITIZENS. Such regimes DO AS THEY PLEASE, and they MURDER or otherwise destroy dissidents and resisters (see Senator Paul Wellstone).
I gave up on America 2 years ago when I left the country. ONLY A TOTALWORKSTOPPAGE and millions of ORGANIZEDRESISTORS prepared to ARREST the cheneybush sociopaths can stop the madness.
KEM PATRICK, cheney’s intents from DAY ONE has been to use tactical nukes against Iran or Syria, whichever comes first. You are NAIVE.
Rebel Farmer is CORRECT: all this emailing and writing to Congress is a sham and a shame, Conyers and Pelosi and EVERY GODDAM ONE OF THEM is LYING. They will NOT impeach because cheneybush have got them by the GONADS and have threatened all-out world war IF Congress dares to even begin impeachment.
Lastly, MCCAIN MUST WIN THE ELECTION so he can pardon the whole lot of these sociopaths (otherwise they will hang). So one of 2 choices remains for Americans: another rigged “election,” or a CANCELLED ELECTION due to world war. Either way, cheneybush are looking to save their asses and run with the money they’ve stashed.
You are going down, my friends….and the rest of us probably with you. That’s whay cheneybush necrophiliacs do: they are fascinated with death and destruction, and they ALWAYS end up dragging everyone else down into their carefully-crafted HELL ON EARTH. Always.
Such a shame that you, my fellow americans, waited too long to rid yourselves of this pestilence. It’s called SELF-DEFENSE, and SELF-PRESERVATION. Even at that you have FAILED.
It’s true that a case can be made for the Bush people thinking bombing Iran is answer, a follow up to Iraq. And it’s also true they may suspend elections following such a policy. But it doesn’t go unnoticed among service people in Iraq and Afganistan that if such a policy is pursued they’re dead. Like our erstwhile congresspeople, all military personnel pledge to support the constitution, not the president, against all enemies foreign and domestic.
In sum, for Bush/Cheney to bomb Iran implies that they’re
together in a suicide pack. Still, stranger things have happened.
When the Bradley vehicles rolled into Bhagdad, the Republican Guard for the most part had laid down their arms to aid the USA to get rid of Saddam. People were running amongst the tanks to get to the Statue of Saddam to pull it down. There was doubt, certainly, but many Iraqis believed that the USA and its allies were there to liberate Iraq… this view didn’t last for long. You can bet Iran has learned this lesson concerning USA imperialism and there will be no doubt in Iran.
The USA cannot possibly win a conventional war against Iran because the enemy ground forces will be gurilla/terrorist. Nuclear, chemical and biological weapons will be imperative. However, Iran is ruled by Islamic rule and any pretense that the USA is not attacking Islam will be gone.
If the USA attacks Iran no one will stand with the USA - certainly not the populations of those ‘allies’. Then there will be Pakistan, India, China and Russia. How would they feel about nuclear radiation floating across their borders? But what about the American people themselves?
This has to be dumber than the attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbour.
Do you want your children and grandchildren drafted to go to the middle-east and get their legs and arms blown off, their faces melted like wax, suicidal, suffering from post traumatic stress disorder, exposed to depleted uranium, radiation, etc.? That’s if they’re “lucky” enough to not come back in a coffin.
The war profiteering leaders of the U.S., including the Democrats, don’t care as long as their children and grandchildren aren’t drafted. Don’t worry, they will find a way to weasel them out of serving in the military, just like frat boy, dry drunk George Bush’s father did for him during the Vietnam conflict.
There’s nothing leaders in the U.S. love more than starting wars and unleashing the rabid dogs of war on weaker, nonthreatening countries.
fainthope:
You refer to the “strange” idea of a cheneybus “suicide-pact.”
Nothing strange here. It’s the logic of their pathological condition.
Yes, sociopaths FIRST exploit, manipulate and destroy others.
But YES, they are ultimately SELF-destructive…and of course when they are up against the wall they ALWAYS find a way to take everyone (ie. the USA and the planet) down with themselves.
History has consistently shown that tyrants destroy themselves and those who were stupid enough to believe/follow the tyrants.
Please big asteroid wipe out this species known as humans.
So what is the ENABLER PARTY GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
You know, the spineless pack of sheeple running the Dem Party.
My guess is fall in line, keep their mouths shut, bend over, and let Bush and Cheney give them the royal frigging they have become accustom to. The more things change the more they stay the same.
The Bush Administration could not possibly be so deranged as to attack Iran…..could it?
Wait, no don’t wait, attack! We need to consider Iran’s weapons of mass destruction, or perhaps the possible development of such. If Bush doesn’t take them out, Hillary has already promised to “obliterate” the Iranian people. “Democracy brings peace, don’cha know!” “Freedom is on the march!” And best of all, “Support our troops!”
.
Different verse, but it seems to me that WE’VE ALL HEARD THIS SONG BEFORE.
.
My God, people, how long will you sit and take this treachery? Does no one comprehend that one day we will be, America will inevitably be on the list?
.
Action is indeed needed, but not against Iran. Action is needed here in the “good ol’ USA” before America is completely stolen from us, and to quote a famous old Iranian, “…and lo, the bird is on the wing.”
.
We need to toss the rascals out and get on with the difficult job of re-building America and repairing our relationships around the world.
.
Now, dammit now, before we are destroyed!
This subject is so painful I can barely write in response; but one thing stands out to me: that America has so celebrated the use of force, has manipulated sports to facilitate a near-worship of “team” orienation, and has such an extensive propaganda network that the HEART of its citizens (too many, although given the 70% disapproval rating, we know it’s NOT a majority) has gone DEAD. Here is where the celebration of logic, and cold deliberate THOUGHT processes devoid of COMPASSION and feeling have led this nation. There is an abject failure of empathy. The very fact that high-placed people discuss bombing a sovereign nation with aplomb… that having FIXED the case for war against Iraq and gotten away with it, they barely have to pay their PR people for a second sinister round. They are just pulling out the moves from the initial playbook. Act like the other nation is the offending party; posture that they are interfering with America’s “noble” objectives, use the “security card” to convince the fools and sheep that all is being done for their protection, etc etc etc.
In a sense, our native population is being held hostage to a non-representative government. Those in the game are under thrall to Mammon and refuse to jeopardize their own positions to potentially alter the trainwreck of American history and its reverberations around the globe. In such a scenario, only our trade partners can help to alter the course… what would happen if those lending the US the money to continue this depraved war and its intended expansion just said NO? Would they? Otherwise, the responsibility for shed blood extends in the way the idiot in the getaway car is held as an accomplice to the bank robbery. And that’s if no one gets shot during the execution of the grand heist.
~CANARDTAHITI~ Thank you so very much for informing me that I’m NAIVE. Since you apparantly are privey to Cheney’s inner circle, perhaps you could post a link and identify someone else who is as informed as you are and confirm your “intelligence” as to EXACTLY what Cheney’s intentions are and have been, in regard to the types of bombs he will use in an attack on Iran.
For several very good reasons, I stated I don’t believe our military would use atomic bombs if we did start a war with Iran, that was my personal opinion. Therefore you claim I’m NAIVE. You have a different opinion, apparantly based upon firs hand knowledge and inform everyone here that Cheney has always intended to use atomic bombs and WILL use them. What else do you know that you are allowed to share with us NAIVE little people?
I’m sorry but I don’t confer with Cheney, but am glad to know someone here does. Perhaps you could share some more of your first hand knowledge and “intelligence”.
KEM,
Regarding the unraveling of the Korean cease-fire pact you mentioned China might engineer while everyone’s looking to Iran, do you have any good reads on how/if Taiwan might get dragged into the fray? I don’t expect to be excused from the chaos George and his Dick create in the ME just by virtue of living in Taiwan, but it’d be nice to get a little heads-up if you know of any good analysis sites centering on China.
I suppose this’d all mean the Olympics’d be kinda moot, too.
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mullen has admitted that the US is prepping for action against Iran.
Not looking at options.
PREPARING MILITARY ACTION!
War with Iran is not a possibility.
It is, as of now, going to happen.
Mini ‘Tonkin Gulf’ incidents are becoming more and more commonplace in the MSM. Gen. Petraeus is a shoe-in for command of CENTCOM. Cheney and his cabal of bloodthirsty warmongers are clamoring for a solution to Iran.
And now the chairman of the Joint Chiefs says that the US already has the plans, and is prepping for action, just awaiting the ‘go’ word.
Should this go forward, and the US does attack Iran…
Then in the words of Rev Jeremiah Wright: “GOD DAMN AMERICA!”
Siouxrose; Inflated hubris. Too many in this country think we are invincible. The “Kool-Aid” worked for a time but when the buzz slowed down, stronger additives were poured into the mix and many still quench their thirst for this devil’s brew.
You wonder why they got away with it the first time? Possibly two words which should be condensed into one.
Republican and Democrat or Republicrat. They are one and the same, serving the same masters.
“In a sense, our native population is being held hostage to a non-representative government.”
Cheney, smirk, and the D.C. establishment haven’t lost a moment’s sleep over the endless tirades written about them and their nefarious deeds these past 8 years. I doubt if they even read them. They know the majority prefer subservience. It’s easier to let another do your thinking and let the “experts” formulate your opinions on various matters, freeing you from time spent seeking out the facts which interfers with television and sporting events.
Maybe Oswald Spengler was on to something in describing how cultures and civilizations rise and fall. We know the direction ours is heading. I wrote about the action on May 1st . Two responses. And you wonder why the ruling class scorns the public? Apathy, lethargy, and willful ignorance are “the axis of evil.”
Hi ~WONDERINGYOU~ how the heck are you doin, really good to hear from you.
No, I don’t have any insider info on China’s plans, it’s just that they have always claimed Taiwan was their legal property and someday they intend to have it, one way or another, just like they finally re-aquired Hong Kong.
China attempted a military invasion of Taiwan in the late 50s as you may recall, but we had supplied Taiwan with the then, new and high tech Sidewinder missils and the Chinese were unable to gain the air superiorty necessary for a sucessful invasion and they backed off. They’ll wait with Chinese patience.
If we are so stupid as to attack Iran, and by doing so, over-extend our military, which is already in sorry shape since Bush took over, add to that our failing economy, which is on the verge of a total breakdown, it would not surprise me to see China take that opportunity to invade Taiwan and or assist the North Koreans once again as they did previously in 1949 and 50.
Will they? I don’t know. I only stated that is possible, as the Chinese are VERY patient people and they’ll wait for the proper opportunity to have their way, they are not going to give up on having Taiwan. The Chinese were a higly civilized and a technically advanced society, when our fore-fathers were still hoards of uncivilized barbarians, which in the Chinese history was not very distant in the past. They don’t look upon America as anything other than an experment and as Franklin once said, it’s a democracy, if you can keep it. Well, Bush is proving we may not be able to keep it.
BTW, have you lost my address? Take care and stay out of taxis.
Has anyone heard that rumor, which is most likely true, that rush limbblob has a pathetically small member? I mean realy small; the size a three year old would have. That would explain his bitterness and need to lash out at those big dicked dems.
We have Dr. Strangelove in the White House — remember the movie?
These are people who love the bomb — and will take us to the brink and over it with nuclear weapons.
These are sociopaths —
They are suicidal —
And they consider destruction to be “winning” . . . !!!
why even bring up the subject? There is nothing we can do to stop this lunacy. Just sit back and watch the show. Maybe Bush will bring back Jesus and we can all live together in peace. The only ones that can stop this from happening is the military, like they did with JFK and others. Assassination or blow up Air Force 1 when all the players are on the plane. But just relax and enjoy the show. Remember God is telling Bush to kill all these people and to start these wars. So how dare you people diss Bush and company.
Amen
No more words necessary - take it any way you want to.
Here’s how pathetic and Vichy-like the Democratic Party is. … Hillary threatens to “obliterate” Iran; and Obama obediently buys into the madness.
Quoting from the following article by Joe Kay, “Hillary Clinton threatens to ‘obliterate’ Iran.” …
“Clinton’s remark (re. her threat to ‘obliterate’ Iran) has received little criticism from the American media, and the most that Obama could bring himself to say was that it was it was unnecessary ’saber rattling,’ while pledging to respond ‘forcefully and swiftly’ to any Iranian attack. …
“Asked if the US should treat an Iranian attack on Israel as an attack on the United States, Obama pledged direct negotiations with Iran but insisted, ‘I will take no options off the table when it comes to preventing them from using nuclear weapons or obtaining nuclear weapons.’ …
“There are no substantial differences between Clinton and Obama on policy. They both support the continued US occupation of Iraq. They both defend the interests of American imperialism in the Middle East and globally. There are, however, tactical differences over US policy in the Middle East, with sections of the Democratic Party establishment critical of unconditional support for Israel. …
“Clinton’s comments are revealing not only in what they say about her own campaign, but what they say about the Democratic Party as a whole, including Obama. No one in the Democratic Party establishment challenges the basic premise underlying the threats by Clinton against Iran: that US policy in the Middle East is aimed at countering Iranian aggression. Neither of the candidates will point out that the policy of unprovoked aggression has been practiced not by Iran, but by the United States, which has killed over 1 million Iraqis, and turned 4 million into refugees, in its determination to gain control of the country and the region.
“The danger of war against Iran — or against China, Russia, or some other country — does not come just from the Republican Party. While the Democrats seek to posture as critics of the Iraq war, they are just as committed as the Republicans to the aims the war was meant to secure, and they will just as surely use military force in the future to achieve these aims.”
Click here for the entire article — http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/apr2008/iran-a24.shtml
roncypert, earlier in this thread you wrote:
“My memory may be faulty (as it is on occasion), but hasn’t Congress already passed a bill which gives President Bush the authority to do whatever he deems necessary when dealing with Iran? And, didn’t Senator Clinton vote for said bill?”
You’re absolutely right. The Democrats signed off, months ago, on giving Bush permission to do whatever he damn well pleases in Iran.
Note: My objection is not just with the insane people who want to start WWW 3, but also with the all-too-many pessimists who show up on these threads to tell us either that “we’re getting what we deserve,” or else that the American public is hopelessly stupid; or some such other cynical remark. You are as guilty in your cynicism as those who are to be condemned. This kind of “giving-up-cynicism” is precisely what the defenders of the status quo, Democrats and Republicans, count on. They COUNT on it!
Your might as well be paid by them for your oh-so-helpful cynicism.
Keep in mind that governments regularly float “trial balloons” to see just how outraged or, conversely, just how acquiescent the general public is to a given possibility.
I remember during the Vietnam War, I believe it was in 1967, LBJ floated the trial balloon that he wanted to use nuclear wepaons on North Vietnam. The public was so shocked, so outraged, that the balloon was quickly lowered, not to be raised again.
To those people who ocynciall throw up their hands and “blame the victim” — the American public — keep in mind, too, that the ruling class is scared to death, repeat: SCARED TO DEATH of what the general public is capable of doing. They have the power, but we have the numbers.
Also, capitalism is in a state of serious decay. Given that economic fact, the US ruling class is trying to offset the US’ overall economic decline by flexing its military muscle. Clearly, the attempt at compensation won’t work and *isn’t* working. These are desperate moves the ruling class is making. Assuming we as a species avoid nuclear destruction, the march of history favors the general population. The social and economic strains and tensions capitalism has created are far too great, far too overwhelming for those in power to sustain their infantile, “patriotic,” religious-political myths and illusions much longer.
Don’t be fooled, the ruling class is afraid, very afraid. Public consciousness can and will change quickly. The social and economic forces that have come about as a result of the dramatic shift of wealth upwards — an upward shift of wealth unprecedented in the history of the world — has, ironically, made the ruling class extremely vulnerable.
David Walsh writes:
“The American population has made two revolutions, and demonstrated in the Civil War in particular, the most remarkable qualities of nobility and self-sacrifice. The Russian people made three revolutions in the 20th century. The Polish socialist movement was a mass movement that produced a Luxemburg. Has the bottom dropped out? Has a new species replaced the old one? I don’t think so; it doesn’t make sense. I’m not convinced that the introduction of modern means of communication and what have you has changed the fundamental picture. People are held back by the conceptions they have. Changed circumstances will change those conceptions.”
Click here for the entire article — http://www.swans.com/library/art11/jsdw01.html
In short, we, the people, are far stronger than many of us think.
Organized, we can win; unorganized, it’s easy to see us as powerless. Your choice.
KEM PATRICK:
Yes, you are NAIVE (and yes, it’s a FRENCH word, especially applicable to the american electorate).
Anyone who doesn’t know BY NOW that the neocon objective has always been a “nuclearized” (read vaporized) muslim world via “tactical/small nukes”…is NAIVE. Read the PNAC papers of 1997, the fascist neocons didn’t even bother to hide their agenda.
When American troops and civilian contractors in Iraq are surrounded, cut off from any escape routes, their helicopters being shot down like ducks, when they are facing imminent slaughter, the cheneybush sociopaths will use these entrapped troops and civilians as an excuse for the use of tactical nukes within Iraq, too. Cheneybush fascists are just waiting for that moment, and it is sure to come very soon.
“We had to destroy (the troops) in order to save them,” remember that, does it sound at all familiar to you NAIVE folks?
Yes, once again Nancy Pelosi, Ms. “impeachment is off the table” cleared the way for Bush to attack Iran.
wsws:
Have you never heard of “learned helplessness?” Most americans suffer from this condition, as well as the stockholm syndrome so typically found in victimized individuals and entire populations.
You are mistaken: the USA power elite are not in the least bit frightened of the masses (though well they should be, I agree with you there). The power elite feels secure in the fact that they have blackwater, they have tanks, they have biological weapons, they have economic leverage, they control the food/energy supply, and they have FEAR. Thusfar it has worked like a charm.
When americans are finally fed up they MIGHT take to the streets…where they will be mowed down by zombie mercenaries from blackwater — any survivors and their families will be rounded up and destroyed.
No, only massiveworkstoppages/spontaneous sit-downstrikes andgeneralstrikes
offer any hope for overturning this fascist regime, and I doubt americans have the guts for that. They are still secretly hoping that some true patriots on the “inside” will rid them of this cheneybush pestilence.
Not likely, since courage seems to be a quality sorely lacking when it comes to “insiders.” They were all bought and paid for long ago.
~CANARDTAHITI~
You have not proven ANYONE has said they WILL use nuclear weapons on Iran. You insist Cheney intends to do that ___ prove it. I believe the use of DU packed bombs would be used, as they have been and are used often used in Iraq, Afganastan and Kosovo.
Those dealdy bunker buster DU bombs are not thermo-nuclear atomic bombs and that is what I first posted and so you say I’m NAIVE. I also said any attack on Iran could develop into a nuclear war and even a WW Three, and it could. So I’m NAIVE you tell everyone here and now teach us French words ___LOL.___ Is ‘fuck you’ a French term also? Or is that Latin?
You may insult me all you desire if that makes your heart pump faster, by saying I’m NAIVE. I don’t lose any sleep over your unwarrented insulting opinions and your opinions are not proven. You on the other hand are a sophist, that is is a FACT. You have proven it YOURSELF, by being obtuse with your comments. Want to start an unnecessary shit fight here? ___ I can toss shit with the best of them. Don’t believe that’s what the rest here want to read however. So lets drop it.
Got a good dictionary? Look up the word Sophist, it’s listed under the letter “S” in English. Read it and then go stare at a mirror for awhile.
Oops, I suggested we drop it didn’t I. Well exusssse me.
By the way… there’s no reason to suspend, postpone or cancel the up coming elections because corporate America has fielded three candidates (Obama, Hillary and John) that are sure to garner at least 95% of the vote. It’s not like people will vote for McKinley or Nader after all! Now you will have to decide if that is a good thing or not.
ooooh, touchy touchy KEM PATRICK, lol.
Since when is the adjective “naive” an INSULT? Just my franco-american opinion, but you could benefit from a little calming down.
My father landed on Guam, Guadalcanal, Bougainville and Iwo in the first waves. In memory of HIS lifelong suffering due to those “experiences” in the struggle against fascism, I think I am entitled to my humble opinion (which includes qualifying your position as “naive”), and this without being accused of “insulting” your august person.
Mea Culpa, may your pseudo-infallibility continue to reign supreme here at CD…and no I hardly need to consult a dictionary to recognize sophistry, not when I can read your daily posts here, lol.
wsws.org website April 26th, 2008 12:58 pm,
“Don’t be fooled, the ruling class is afraid, very afraid. Public consciousness can and will change quickly. The social and economic forces that have come about as a result of the dramatic shift of wealth upwards — an upward shift of wealth unprecedented in the history of the world — has, ironically, made the ruling class extremely vulnerable.”
i agree w/ your critique, except i am very cynical that the american people are capable of revolutionary change at this moment in time.
just look at participation in demonstrations in the streets of america before Iraq, take the largest cities (ny 8.2 m, la 3.8 m, chi 2.8 m, hou 2.1 m, phnx 1.5 m),
“The largest demonstration took place in New York City, which attracted between 300,000 and 400,000 protesters.”
(http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/feb2003/summ-f17.shtml
the same day, wsws says, 3-4 million turned out in rome (the largest attendance for any anti war demonstration ever held - italians on the streets opposing a US/anglo war).
so, 300,000 people on the streets of nyc (1 out of 24 nyc residents) on one february day. we’ve been at war for over 1825 days (5 years), the american public is tolerant of what it’s government is doing. i don’t believe i’m delusional here.
i’ve often heard people say ‘it’s a luxury to participate in political speech. who can afford to take the day off of work, to participate in a rally’. if people do not have an understanding of the importance of political speech, or mass movements, it’s extremely unrealistic to imagine they can be educated and converted in the time frame circumscribed by a crisis (like war w/ iran).
for example, stand at a grocery store this afternoon and petition/table for cynthia mckinney. unless your at the food coop, i doubt 5% of the people entering the store will know 3 things about cynthia. as a nation our consciousness is very low, yet - these americans will quit their jobs to participate in a GS to overthrow the government?
maybe jesus christ could do it (if he was real). i doubt the greens, or the world socialists, or any of the legitimate torch bearers of the left are capable of that task.
to sustain an effective response to stop government atrocities, would require large numbers sustained over time (like the generalstryke in seattle in 1919, 4 days 2/6-2/11)
1 in 10 Los Angelenos 380,000 people, i in 10 chicagoans 280,000, i in 10 people in Houston, 210,000 people. unless unemployment rates begin to hover around 20-30% i don’t see demonstrations/actions capable of sustaining a shutdown.
i also, to a degree, believe the goon squads argument. the american government is already walking the path of violence and suppression of the truth. the fascists will mimic the tactics that they (cia, school of the americas, protestant missionaries) refined in places like el salvador and guatemala on the american population.
we will find body parts on the edge of town, and the people will respond in fear (as they did in central america and nazi germany).
they’re already employing these tactics (gathering lists, restricting travel, torturing people, intercepting communications).
as the situation deteriorates (food shortages,a severe recession coupled w/ a hitleresque leader threating nations w/ nukes). the tactics used to suppress the people - and their educated leaders will become more extreme.
the police can shoot you or search you for any reason. you can be detained w/out habeas corpus rights…….
sean bell’s murderers got off yesterday, last week the Sup Crt affirmed police use of confiscated evidence acquired during searches conducted over minor traffic citations.
i do not even pretend to have a solution to our predicament (live in peace, continue to inform yourself, share ideas w/ others, participate in politics as best you can),
perhaps the international courts, UN intervention, military occupation of the US by another country.
but i am skeptical of the masses intervening to save the day, even if the US instigated a nuclear war. social change after nuclear war… that’s a different subject.
…peace….
You say I’m NAIVE, using capitol letters. You wrote that for all here to read, because I offered the opinion that I don’t believe atomic bombs would be used if we attacked Iran.
I asked what is your proof they would be. Instead of answering that fair question, you changed the subject to your father’s war experiences. That’s being a sophist dear.
Guess you don’t have a good dictionary. The definition of one being NAIVE is: ___”One who is FOOLISHLY simple,___ childlike, ___ artless, and has a foolish lack of worldy wisdom.
I do find that to be insulting. If you don’t find the term to be an insult to a 73 year old man, who has also shed blood in wars, and has been around the block more than once, perhaps it is because you yourself are naive and it wouldn’t bother you to be so classified.
Stop it KEM, this is absurd. I hit a nerve? Get over it.
KP - you doth protest too much, and are as much provoking as being provoked. I stopped taking you serious long ago, but of course that doesn’t prevent you or anyone else from thinking you have some special endowment for truth and wisdom, or to the contrary might suppose you are indeed naive. But that isn’t what we are here for.
You and you’re ilk are on this forum creating derision where none should exist. We should not be mincing words and taking exception to essentially irrelevant details and casually submitted comment. You posture in this matter as if you honestly believe if “they” don’t use thermonuclear bombs then somehow “they” are humane. You are attempting to rationalize insanity, applying reason to that which is unreasonable. And your effect here is to trivialize and mock an otherwise substantive comment by an otherwise insightful thinking person. We did