Nobel Laureate Estimates Wars’ Cost at More Than $3 Trillion
WASHINGTON - When U.S. troops invaded Iraq in March 2003, the Bush administration predicted that the war would be self-financing and that rebuilding the nation would cost less than $2 billion.
Coming up on the fifth anniversary of the invasion, a Nobel laureate now estimates that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are costing America more than $3 trillion.
That estimate from Noble Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz also serves as the title of his new book, “The Three Trillion Dollar War,” which hits store shelves Friday.
The book, co-authored with Harvard University professor Linda Bilmes, builds on previous research that was published in January 2006. The two argued then and now that the cost to America of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is wildly underestimated.
When other factors are added - such as interest on debt, future borrowing for war expenses, the cost of a continued military presence in Iraq and lifetime health-care and counseling for veterans - they think that the wars’ costs range from $5 trillion to $7 trillion.
“I think we really have learned that the long-term costs of taking care of the wounded and injured in this war and the long-term costs of rebuilding the military to its previous strength is going to far eclipse the cost of waging this war,” Bilmes said in an interview.
The book and its estimates are the subject of a hearing Thursday by the Joint Economic Committee of Congress.
The White House doesn’t care for the estimates by Stiglitz, a former chief economist of the World Bank who’s now a professor at Columbia University.
“People like Joe Stiglitz lack the courage to consider the cost of doing nothing and the cost of failure. One can’t even begin to put a price tag on the cost to this nation of the attacks of 9-11,” said White House spokesman Tony Fratto, conceding that the costs of the war on terrorism are high while questioning the premise of Stiglitz’s research.
“It is also an investment in the future safety and security of Americans and our vital national interests. $3 trillion? What price does Joe Stiglitz put on attacks on the homeland that have already been prevented? Or doesn’t his slide rule work that way?”
Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a decorated Marine Corp colonel and Vietnam veteran, welcomed the effort by Stiglitz and Bilmes to quantify how much the wars will cost taxpayers.
“It’s astounding that here we are about to mark the fifth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, and this administration still refuses to acknowledge the long-term costs of the war in Iraq,” he said.
By any estimate, the Bush administration’s predictions in March 2003 of a self-financing war have proved to be wildly inaccurate. Stiglitz cites operational spending to date of $646 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and, working off estimates from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, presumes that spending on these wars over the next decade probably will amount to another $913 billion.
Pentagon officials had no immediate comment on Stiglitz’s book or his estimates.
Stiglitz and Bilmes first estimated war costs of $1 trillion in January 2006. Their research proved controversial and sparked debate about the costs of replacing equipment used by the regular armed forces and National Guard. In the new book, they offer a figure of $404 billion for replacing equipment, planes and tanks and bringing military hardware back from Iraq and Afghanistan.
In an interview, Stiglitz said that too much of the public debate had been over the wars’ operational costs while the real budget strains would show up only years from now.
“The peak expenditures are way out,” he said, noting that the peak expenditures for World War II vets came in 1993.
The pair estimated that future medical, disability and Social Security costs for veterans of the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan range from a best-case $422 billion to what they call a more probable long-term expense of $717 billion.
It’s why the two call in the book for creating a Veterans Benefits Trust Fund to set aside money in a “lock box” to pay for future health-care needs of Iraq and Afghanistan vets. Although veterans’ health care amounts to a future promise, they said, it isn’t an entitlement and instead is funded through discretionary spending. In the future, funding for vets will compete with other government programs.
“We should not have an unfunded entitlement program like this,” Stiglitz said. “This is more like deferred compensation. . . . We require corporations to put money away but we don’t require the government to put money away, and we should be doing that . . . so when the focus turns away to some other problem, veterans aren’t given the shaft.”
The book divides war costs into two main categories: budgetary and social. The budgetary costs are the more quantifiable spending on operations, equipment, future benefits paid to veterans and the like. In a best-case scenario they total about $1.7 trillion; in a more probable scenario almost $2.7 trillion.
The social costs that Stiglitz and Bilmes offer are more theoretical, and represent the thought-provoking part of their war-cost argument.
When a soldier is killed in combat, they said, the U.S. armed forces pay a $100,000 death gratuity and make a $400,000 payment to his or her survivors in the equivalent of insurance for an unexpected death.
If these men and women had died in private-sector employment or in some kind of disaster, compensation to family members generally would be settled in court after determining what economists and lawyers call “the value of statistical life.” This measures the economic contribution that a person would have made over the rest of his or her life if they hadn’t died.
Stiglitz and Bilmes settled on a statistical value of life that they say the Environmental Protection Agency uses when people are killed in environmental disasters: $7.2 million.
There have been 4,456 U.S. military fatalities in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2001 to Feb. 26, 2008. The direct cost to the Pentagon from these deaths has been $2.2 billion, but if lives are valued as they are outside the armed forces, the researchers conclude, the hypothetical economic cost rises to more than $30 billion. Include contractors killed while working for U.S. operations and the number rises to more than $50 billion.
In a best-case outlook, the social and societal costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars would be $295 billion; $415 billion in a moderate-realistic case scenario.
© 2008 McClatchy Newspapers
It’s perfect. In 2000 Iraq was worth an estimated 10 Trillion to international investors and oil bankers, but the problem was the GDP was a measly 11 Billion - peanuts for Iraq. They were sitting on a pile of gold. Certainly didn’t help that Saddam had a 125 billion dollar international debt which he couldn’t repay.
3 Trillion dollars, and guess who foots that tab? Certainly not the investors or the bankers, but yep, you guessed it, you and I the taxpayer have to foot that bill - paying interest on it to. War is perfectly designed for the investor, it exploits obscene ammounts of money and loot from both the host nation and the invaded nation.
And what’s a little war profiteering, no bid defense contracts, security contracts etc. just large government handouts to corperations while you have a war?
Iraq, with a crumbling military, disfunctional government was a sitting duck just waiting to be plucked by international investors.
If it ever dawns on the military men and women who/what they’re actually fighting for, I give a max of two days before a Military Coup and takes place, overthrowing the American Government.
what makes you think we haven´t already had a military coup???
They’re in denial. They’ve delluded and convinced themselves that they’re actually fighting a threat to this nation, enemies, and for security. The same way the masses of this nation are deluded into believing the war is about all those things.
Granted, one of the best methods to dellude the military is to send them out to create threats, create enemies, incite hatred, and weaken security so you can keep the propoganda and excuses going.
So again, if it ever dawns on the military man and women how they’re manipulated and used, I give two days. But of course, it is folly to hope for them to become self-aware - that’s why we’re in Iraq, and will be for decades to come.
Get used to being in Iraq. We’re there for the long haul, “liberating” these people.
Watch as the Beast of militarism crushes everything in its path, consumes everything we have and still howls for more, more, more.
$3 trillion is $10,000 for every American, including children and retired folks, so say $20,000 per working adult. It’s draining the economy, or more accurately, emptying it into some big pockets and away from benefiting you and me. And the article doesn’t even mention the cost of rebuilding Iraq, except for Bush’s ridiculous estimate in the first sentence. Iraq has suffered so much more than we did on 9/11 it makes me cringe to hear them still bringing that up. These are sick and evil people who are conducting this war. Our top generals seem to have more sense, judging by some of the statements of retired ones. Maybe a coup would be good, since the Congress seems incapable of reining in these bastards.
Kick out the politicians! Direct Democracy, NOW! Incorporate We the People!
For inspiration, check out:
http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/
Problem with a coup is IF, the big IF, it finally dawns on the military who they’ve serving - all that the financiers have to do is pay off the military to keep fighting for them, against this country.
Want to see who the true patriots are? See who fights for no pay.
It’s like the scene in Cuba from the Godfather II “That soldier gets paid for what he does. But that rebel who gets paid nothing was willing to blow himself up rather than be captured.”
“What does that tell you?”
“It tells me the rebels can win.”
Take away the pay of the soldiers, and see how the all volunteer army works out. If they’re selflessly serving their country without personal pride or prejudice, fighting for everyone else, they should have no problem fighting for no pay.
Gosh!
Who, in the name of humanity, would vote for such a thing!?
And in the name of humanity, who would vote to continue funding this series of atrocities?
Our beloved military-industrial complex deserves blue ribbons for such a fantastic contribution to our economic growth. These brave new wars pulled us out of Bill Clinton’s recession just like WWII pulled us out of the Great Depression. We have tears in our eyes. God Bless America!!
Despite the three trillion our soldiers could not get body armor or rifles. The words “economic rape” come to mind.
The $3 Trillion is an interesting figure but terribly low in my humble opinion.
Someone with a sharp pencil and mind for economics and currency values and inflation should figure out the effects of our dead dollar (which began to fall against other currencies just on the rumor of America invading Iraq) on everyone’s pocketbook and net worth as well as the economic ripple effects of higher energy prices as the invasion and occupation has reduced Iraq’s production thus creating artificially high oil prices resulting in an overall decline of the American economy and loss of jobs and of course the extended effects on the global economy tied to the American consumer who can no longer afford to go shopping. ETC.
This may be a slow death for the imperial empire handed to us by a rag-tag resistance who by current accounting must surely have God on their side !
The Bush Administration with the help of the Congress and Supreme Court effectively has bankrupted this country. All of their rich friends get richer and everyone else gets f###ed. They get a delicious piece of the pie while everyone else gets nothing (okay, maybe an occasional crumb). That is the way it always has worked, so any chance of change is unlikely until we change the system.
3 Trillion was the estimated value of Iraq’s Oil in US Dollars in this 2002 article:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2002/12heart.htm
Of course the war has increased the value of the oil 4X since then . . .
It is interesting to observe that the USA would need to spend $3 trillion to fight a war against good old Saddam Hussein and Iraq, a 3rd world adversary. I would like to ask you Americans, how effective are your gizzmo weapons like the B1 Bomber ($1.5 billion each and you have now 9 of them having crashed 1 of them lately. Your Air- carriers wgicg costs over $20 billion to build and another $5 billion to run and maintain.
Hey ! you Americans are so useless as warriors. Your gizzmos are as you put it “walk into Iraq in just 10 days. Yes ! You took Iraq in 5 days with no resistance if I may add, but look at what your aggression got you ? Come to think of it your quakmire in Veitnam was in fact a cake walk costs wise. I think the USA ought take on another role and this time do not take on the roll of Aggressor because you are just hopeless at it.
Stay the course, USA, and produce more excellent movies because fantasy is your speciality, give up your role as Imperialist, THAT IS HARD !
“The $3 Trillion is an interesting figure but terribly low in my humble opinion”
Doesn’t include the interest and debt we have to pay.
Again though. In 2000, Iraq’s GDP was only 11 Billion. We might as well have bought the damn country for like 50 Billion, and exiled Saddams regime. that would save us 2.95 Trillion tax dollars, and the oil investors and bankers could have had all the loot they want.
So now 9/11 has cost us more than 7,000 lives and $3 trillion - bin Laden must be cackling in his cave, the shrewdest investor of them all! What a pack of deluded fools are the American public. Watch for them to reaffirm their stupidity by electing that candidate of change and a breath of fresh air in Washington, John “Playboy” McCain.
“a Nobel laureate now estimates that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are costing America more than $3 trillion.”
We should take such studies in proper context. Such analyses make a point, but without context are akin to robber thinking. Robbers seem to think about their own benefit only, to the exclusion of their victims.
The cost of these wars to America is $3T. How about the “collateral damage”?? If the cost to US is zero, or even generated a profit to the tune of $3T, would the mass murder, mayhem, and destruction of this fragile earth be justified?
Apparently yes by the MIC folks.
Its a start, but we need to calculate and advertise the real costs of these adventures.
And guess which segment of US society is pocketing these tax dollars? You’re right - the rich, who purchased a tax exemption card from the Bushies.
And he wants even more to follow this - how about $4 trillion?
Forget about schools, health, infrastructure, SocSec, consumer protection, etc. Money spent there does not earn a profit for the rich oligarchy. It is much easier to control a population which has been forced to live in penury.
When one includes the US priceless military relationship with Israel, the cost of death and destruction likely doubles. No wonder why the entire world hates amerika and israel.
Of course the total global costs of these adventures is greater by far, but Americans don’t give a crap about anybody else. A sure-fire way to get their attention is to tell them their tax money is being wasted and a sure-fire way to get their vote is to tell them you’ll cut their taxes. No money for education? - Not if I have to pay taxes for it! No money for infrastructure? - Not if I have to pay taxes for it! No money for supporting the returning troops? - Not if I have to pay taxes for it! No money for health care, product safety inspections, port security, etc, etc, etc? - Not if I have to pay taxes for it! That’s the Silent Majority; that’s the Values Voter; that’s the Compassionate Conservative; that’s the Christian Right; that’s the Corporate Capitalist.
That’s the American Way.
That’s what’s really strange about the whole Bin Laden thing. If you’re Bin Laden, or the top Al-Aqaeda operatives, you’ve got to be just laughing and laughing at the current state of America.
A mass population not just wholly content being exploited and voting against their self interests, but belligerently happy to argue the case for why they should be ripped off.
I actually met a guy who explained to me he doesn’t care about civil liberties, Iraqi refugees etc, and only cares about protecting him and his family. So I explained to him that him and his family are being exploited, taken advantage of, and manipulated - and he’s letting all of that happen to himself, and his family; he still didn’t seem to get it.
It’s one thing to have a concious about the war - the deaths and carnage it causes to the Iraqi citizenry. It’s completely another when you turn to America, and begin to explain how the war affects US, our pocketbooks, and how we’re really being exploited. Basically, for the guy above, it didn’t even matter that he was being ripped off, he was delluded. And I bet this was a guy from like Wyoming - we all know the terrorists are just dying to hit Wyoming.
How much is a human life worth?
Our (America’s) problem with this war (conflict) is that we measure it in dollars. In America everything is measured up against the dollar bill. A person’s success depends on how fat their wallet is. Our big houses and fancy cars are a testament to the fact we are doing well right?
So how much is a human life worth? How much are tears worth?
The insane are running the insane asylum!
Three trillion here, three trillion there. Pretty soon you’ll be talking about some real money.
First of all… on this occasion, Bush didn’t lie, we just misinterpreted him when he projected to us that the war would be self-financing. He and his buddies are doing very well, thank you very much.
it’s all about taking your cash to keep that bubble up.
C’mon now, it’s just a tad over the estimated 50 - 60 billion.
Mastershake, this situation you described about the guy who was belligerently happy to argue a case (in favour of war in Iraq) for a state of affairs which he doesn’t seem to realise is ripping himself off. He seemed to believe it made him safer, you seem to argue it actually doesn’t and what’s more it it is costing him financially too (3 Trillion Dollars the latest estimates since Iraq invasion).
I would suggest though that this state of affairs is not isolated to the war in Iraq.
A massive example of this is the meat industry. (Let’s set aside for this argument the health factors and last but not least the cruelty involved and focus just on the element of self-interest of needing a planet with a particular climate to live on.) Despite overwhelming evidence that meat has heavily contributed in a number of dynamic ways to the environmental crisis upsetting the global climate, it is projected that meat consumption is only going to dramatically increase.
The math though is pretty simple, not simplistic.
* harvesting meat uses up much more crop (about 10 times as much) than harvesting crops for direct human consumption
* thus harvesting meat results in the clearing of more forests
* lack of forests means more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere
* more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, globe gets warmer
* harvesting meat contributes to over 36% of all human industrial output of methane into the atmosphere
* methane is 25 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide
* meat consumption projected to increase over coming years
…so you can see the picture… if we wanted to heat the globe up more rapidly, eating meat, promoting it as something a responsible Mum would feed her family is exactly what we would be doing. And millions of Americans will argue that meat is their God given right, that it is unAmerican to not eat meat, that there is something quite impotent about being anything other than a meat-eater.
It was once the same for Americans with driving big cars - ah, the Hummer… still is for some. And smoking cigarettes (how is that Marlboro man doing?) Teenagers are arguably politically numb, spiritually bankrupt, materially obsessed, all form and no substance, and those who are not might have a defeatist perspective given that it is 60 year old self-serving warlords and industrialists who have hijacked their future and leaving them nothing but the uncertainty of the sustainability of life on this planet.
At the end of the day, compassion itself, without understanding the implications of greenhouse emissions, might have been enough to save us all from the environmental catastrophie which looms. The same with what we do to animals as what we are doing to Iraqis - compassion might have spared us from the costs we are now left in one way or another to pay.
It’s probably not too late to start living more compassionately. Whether or not that is possible is a question of culture. Frankly, at this point in time, I don’t see any nation nor any statesman having what it takes. The system of elections of governments is based not on compassion but on competition and rivalry. I’d be fascinated to hear a theory of how we could manipulate the capitalist consumerist system to turn it against itself and bend us out of this spiritual and global crisis.
speakeroftruth:
One of the points I was trying to get accross is that, even given the exploitation, costs and adverse affects to each and every American, Americans STILL do not care about the consequences of the war. I’m putting that aside from the carnage, the 200,000+ Iraqi’s Killed, 4 million refugees, 4,000 Americans killed and so on.
Many Americans don’t even care about how the war affects THEM, much less anyone else. These people have let paranoia and fear cloud their better judgement, and now act against even their own self interests, let alone the collective interests of the nation and Iraq.
They likely wouldn’t care, you could rip them off for thousands more - and they will be for tens of thousands more. They won’t care unless they actually had to go and fight/serve, and see the carnage for themselves. We live in a bubble nation, an island just completely disconnected from reality, and more than content being ignorant.
Illegally invading Iraq: $3 Billion
Tax Cuts for the Rich: $10 Billion
Turning the USA into a Fascist Imperial State: Priceless
I can remember seeing Cheney on meet the press with Tim Russert and he said with Iraqs resources this wasn’t going to cost us much at all. All the lies they told and they are still in office. Laws seem only for us citizens to obey not our tyrants.
This finacial aspect is much more damaging than what any potential terrorists could have done to us. I knew this would be the case an told anybody at the time who would listen. This war is destroying us, plain and simple.
To top it off these same clowns are the ones who did 9/11. It’s a fact and the sononer we deal with it the better.
The multinational pirate corporations do not care if they bankrupt the USA. They are above nationality. They can buy a new country with their profits.
The wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and possibly Iran have their roots in 1913 with the Brainless Woodrow Wilson and crook brain House.
They did the bidding of bankers and arranged for war loans to be paid by everyone via the two-edged sword of the 16th amendment and Institutional Robbery. The proper name of the latter is The Federal Reserve System.
May a horny camel find Cheney’s ass and fill it to the rim.
When all is said and done, the three trillion $$$$ will only be the down payment for this corporate coups d’etat. How about that? THEY screw us and WE pay THEM.
One can’t even begin to put a price tag on the cost to this nation of the attacks of 9-11,” said White House spokesman Tony Fratto, …..
Actually, we could put a price tag on it. Someone probably has done it. Then we can add the costs of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq which will go on for decades to that. Bin Laden probably never imagined he would succeed so well… and still be around to enjoy it.
And here is more information that American media prefers to ignore.
Iraq war ’caused slowdown in the US
complete article:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23286149-2703,00.html
Not only is the “war” cost over $3 Trillion but debt management policies have spilled over into even larger financial arenas.
excerpt:
” The spending on Iraq was a hidden cause of the current credit crunch because the US central bank responded to the massive financial drain of the war by flooding the American economy with cheap credit.
“The regulators were looking the other way and money was being lent to anybody this side of a life-support system,” he said.
“That led to a housing bubble and a consumption boom, and the fallout was plunging the US economy into recession and saddling the next US president with the biggest budget deficit in history, he said.”
The three-trillion dollar war will now be defended even more deviously than by the principals of the eight-year-long Bush administration.
The reason is that John McCain is, more than a military man, an extremely bad romance novelist.
As McCain outlines his fiction for post-withdrawal Iraq– to ensure that it never happens– Lord Petraeus, the man whose name has a ring to it– will become more and more the main character.
We won’t go into the reason for Petraeus’
rise, his subjugation of Mosul province and what has happened there since.
We’ll learn to think of Al Quaeda as seekers of a base establishment in post-American Iraq without questioning why that should be so.
What exactly will be the attraction– the American Embassy? Does Al Quaeda want to establish casinos? Does Al Quaeda especially want a country where the lights don’t work?
Could it be that McCain is suffering from Alzheimers and has confused the domino theory of Vietnam with Iraq?
Look, this line of thought is just a beginning. But if people don’t actively start mocking the mockable McCain and KEEP AT IT for the next year, he well could defeat Obama, Clinton or anyone else with his grandfatherly– concealed fascist– manner.
Let’s not forget that the American Peoples are to blame for the mess the USA is in. Even though the Supreme started this mess, it’s inconceivable that this international Mafia would be put back in office a second term. After four years it seems that everyone would have known what they had. Yes, it is the voting public’s fault.
What is Cheney’s cut?
With the monies wasted on this needless war, Social Security could have been secured for many additional years.
canuck chuck (4:34) nailed it precisely. A perfect example is Halliburton moving their corporate headquarters to Dubai. The corporate masters pledge allegiance to no country. Eventually, when they finish raping and plundering the earth they will have no place left worth buying. They seem to have no concern for leaving a habitable earth for their grandchildren. The question is how much damage they (/we)will do before they(/we) are controlled.
The very, very first thing the Democrats should have done in January 2007 was to separate appropriations for the Iraq War from those for the Afghanistan War to kick the props out from under George Bush’s phony connection of the two.
Since a corporation has the rights of an indvidual maybe we could reinstate the draft and draft corporations, the the CEOs would start a protest movement and march in the streets and sing protest songs and…. sorry went off my meds.
We will either pay the $10,000 a piece in inflated money or we will default, or we will suffer under a long recession or depression. Considering the transfer of our production to other countries I assume we will not default. The kind of massive inflation needed will not be controllable or predictable so my guess is that a long term recession or depression is what they will shoot for.
What the poor should insist on is massive military cuts.
What we will get is anybodies guess. I assume the poor will have to take it on the chin like in the depression.
If they don’t fight they will die with a whimper. If they fight some will die with a bang.
I believe the “price tag” was less than 100 billion… That other 2900 billion is just “cost overrun”. Now, what was it that Grover was saying about a bathtub?
Kucinich, Paul, Nader, Edwards, McKinney, Moore and others. Americans could elect a president who would help create a more peaceful world and prosperous America but they don’t do the homework, get sucked in by the plutocrats and we get more of the same. Ignorance is not bliss!
OBSCENE. OBSCENE.
Half the oil used by the USA is used by the military. Halve the military, halve the oil consumption, halve the dependence on foreign oil. Pull out of Iraq, tell the Saudis it’s their problem and they can sell their oil to China.
Mastershake: Where did you get a figure of 200,000 Iraqi dead? My reading says it is 1.2 million.
wcdevins: I appreciate your comment but 1/2 of 1/2 is 1/4.
Where does all that money go? Most of it goes to big corporations who provide the weapons and services. So our loss is their gain, and what looks like disaster to us turns out to be a huge windfall for Wall Street, which, of course is nothing new.
Well you can kiss the $2 trillion that is supposed to be in the Social Security Trust fund goodbye.
The poor die in war.
The middle class pays for war.
The wealthy profit from war.
“Let’s not forget that the American Peoples are to blame for the mess the USA is in…After four years it seems that everyone would have known what they had.”
bush was never elected by the American people. He cheathed BOTH times. But, I wil concede that there are a whole lot of stupid Americans.
Hamster, thanks for using the Halliburton line, that and the price of oil (gas at the pump): these and the rape and murder of Iraq and the continual sacrifice of US Troops are currently my main arguing points for impeachment (in the context of all the lies of course).
Protect the Troops: Impeach.
Change the Mission: Impeach.
Defend America and Human Dignity: Impeach.
> $3 trillion is $10,000 for every American..
But, but - Americans get a $600 kickback! What a deal! Neocons point out the war hardly costs anything like the Vietnam war did as % of GNP. And it’s on credit so it’s not like real money, we just gotta stall the cost a few more years, well, decades, and then it’s the next generation’s problem. The war is FREE. Until it stops. Then someone’s gotta take stock of what we got for what we have to pay. That will be an unhappy day.
> How much is a human life worth?
> Our (America’s) problem with this war (conflict) is that we measure it in dollars
I disagree. mastershake points out meeting a man who didn’t care what it cost in dollars or lives. The man is guided by fear. He fears not being at war more then being at war. Cost is irrelevant. Reason is irrelevant because it is emotion that drives the decision.
A life is worth a life. A dollar isn’t worth a life. But trillions of dollars can be converted into saving lives. Dollars could be converted into energy research that lessens our reliance on oil.
> And millions of Americans will argue that meat is their God given right,
It is. Or more precisely, the pursuit of meat is. No one is guaranteed happiness or affordable steak. The Constitution does not mandate people be vegans or that they eat meat. I prefer my Constitution like that.
> Teenagers are arguably politically numb, spiritually bankrupt, materially obsessed,
> all form and no substance, and those who are not might have a defeatist perspective ..
Lost me with the attack on teenagers for not being politically connected Dalai Lamas. Where’d that come from? And was it intended to go anywhere relating to the war?
What, America’s GDP is 13-14 trillion per year?
So over 10 years that’s 140 trillion, thus 7 trillion (7,000,000,000) over 10 years is a trifle. Plus, if you take Enron’s Future Income Accounting technics into account - We are all actually millionaires a couple of times over.
We can’t let the torturous death of a few “grunts” and “ragheads” get in the way of all this prosperity - All Hail the King! Long live Cheney/Bush: the greatest benefactors of humanity of aaaaallllllll tiiiiiimmmmmeeeee!!
Not to worry …
Our dollar is becoming worthlesss anyway …
So what does it matter how many of them it costs in the long run …
Do we do long runs anymore?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUdftDH70TQ
3 trillion is equal to the street value of Afghan poppy production converted to Heroin over the last 6 years. Thats why we are paying Blackwater to take over for the War on Drugs. Privatize the profits.
How about the oil. Word is Big Oil is gearing up to pump oil from the Basra oil fields now. Guess who is going to pay for their security protection so they can charge you 4 dollars a gallon at the pump this summer, despite hiding most of the profits in the tax havens to avoid paying taxes.
We have been doing this for over 100 years. Read Major Smedley Butlers “War is a Racket”. He must be turning over in his grave today. The one guy I swore was a Patriot was Colin Powell, once he showed his true colors, I figured all was lost. The only ones who get promoted to General today
and for the last 30 years are men who are with the globalist agenda. The end justifies the means.
Henry Kissinger at the 2007 Bilderberg meeting supposedly said to a small group before the meeting “In America, we consider those who are against internationalism to be terrorists”. Thats why we have The Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act on the table now. How convenient people are bombing malls and shooting store clerks instead of the bankers who are stealing their money and property that you would think would be sparking their ire (I am not advocating this by any means, just using it to make a point of how insane this is). Makes you wonder if MK-ULTRA is alive and well.
Once people figure out what the Globalist agenda means for them, they are going to be “unhappy”. The Globalists expect violence when people awaken (famine, homelessness, and extreme poverty work wonders to shock people out of their slumber and denial). The laws and executive orders in recent years are to prepare for the crackdown, and the economic crisis orchestrated by the elite is a sign this is going to happen soon. Those who protest are terrorists. In fact, NORTHCOM has recently entered into an agreement with Canada for them to send troops to the US in an emergency, and also vice versa.
We need to come up with a way to assess the people responsible for this Fiscal mess. With a quck Google search entering the name of my home town and the words “political contributions”, I find I get get a list of all contributions of $200 or more in my town.
My suggestion is to allocate the debt run up over the 8 years of the Bush Administration based on the amount contributed to the Republican Party and then put a surcharge on the tax returns of these individuals.
If you want to get really depressed about the prospects for getting out of Iraq see the documentary Crude Awakening—I got it on Netflicks. Perpetual war anyone?
3 trillion, that is $12,000 for every man, woman and child of Iraq. If Bush had followed my original strategy and handed out money to the tune of $12,000 per person, Uncle Sam would have been emblazoned on every lunch box in the country, instead of every dart board. We’d have been “greeted as liberators” and even had a “mission accomplished”
But you see, they need a quagmire to justify McCain’s “100 year occupation”
“When you drive a car, you’re Voting Bush!”
That was always the idea, Get stuck in there and keep spending until someone puts a stop to it. If you recall the look on GB’s face when he realized he had won the 2004 election, he was thinking “I can’t believe we’re still getting away with this”. Add McCain and you’ll have one long expensive ride. What do you think we’ll show for it in the end?
Cost for each dead soldier?; $100,000 death gratuity, $400,000 to his or her survivors.
Cost for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? 3 trillion dollars.
Cost for imperial insanity? Priceless
Maybe the Republicans can use the idea that since the dollar isn’t worth as much as it was at the start of the war, the war is only 2/3rds as expensive. Ha!
Yay people who actually work for their moneys dollars going to a great cause.
Death and destruction to run machines and stop terrorism
We are paying for this in the UK as well, with increased taxes on fuel, petrol at $10 a gallon, major utility companies making huge profits whilst increasing prices by twenty percent in the last year. Stealth taxes in the form of more speed cameras.
Of course this pales into insignificance when you consider the plight of the Iraqi and Afghani people, they are living in hell. Millions of them have been killed or injured, millions more displaced.
We have just received the news that Prince Harry has been fighting (???) in Afghanistan, I just wish that Tony Bliar’s and George Bush’s offspring would follow, as well as the young belonging to any of our other “brave” politicians, who got us into this disgusting mess.
The only people who are profiting from this mayhem, are the elite rich - heads of industry and politicians.
How do we change this mess for good, how do we mobilise the masses and put a stop to this immoral madness?
While the United States is swirling around inside the bowl; the GOP continues to service the Hurlitzer of Hatred. War! War! War! Non-stop!
Musn’t let the war profiteers fall below the poverty line!
The Trillionaires
Do you think that George Bush is the world’s first trillionaire? I think maybe George senior is a trillionaire; certainly the Bush Family has a trillion dollars by now. I’m thinking that if three trillion dollars are spent on war of terror, then a third of that is probably about the cut that the organizers can skim off the Pentagon budget. Wasn’t there a story on about Sept 10, 2001 on how about two trillion Pentagon dollars are - missing!? Plus you must consider that Bush pere was CIA boss decades ago and probably enjoyed a few perks even then, eh?
Yeah, the Bushes have a trillion dollars in graft secreted away, maybe buried in Paraguay or somewhere. I want that money back, don’t you? It could solve a lot of problems.
The United States is following the example of Spain the 16th century when that country, at its imperial height, squandered its advantage by engaging in wars that resulted in Hapsburg Spain going bankrupt several times despite all the gold and silver coming in from the Spanish colonies in the Americas. By the early 17th century Spanish imperialism was a spent force, and the same thing is happening to the US right now. Even if we dramatically reversed course, it is too late: we have allowed the country to go too far in debt and we have allowed our industries to move abroad. Like Spain we are destined to lose our advantaged position in the world.
I’m walking one legged in the street. PTSD all the way. VA ain’t worth sh#$%t. My tribe still in the hell hole sandbox. Along with the people of Iraq we beg you, Clinton, Obama, Nader to come talk to us. Don’t stay in the green zone, come out into the hellhole we are in. McCain stay the hell out of here. We of Anbar give you the one finger salute.
“People like Joe Stiglitz lack the courage to consider the cost of doing nothing and the cost of failure. One can’t even begin to put a price tag on the cost to this nation of the attacks of 9-11,” said White House spokesman Tony Fratto, conceding that the costs of the war on terrorism are high while questioning the premise of Stiglitz’s research.
It would help greatly if they (Bush and his cronies)had gone after the right people in the very beginning. Al qaida who was actually responsible for 9/11. And hadn’t instantly started playing mind games with the facts, trying to draw as many people who weren’t responsible into their game. If they had focused on taking Al qaida out and left out all the other side trips they have made around the middle east alone. All they have done is f…it up so badly now there isn’t anything that’s going to correct the mess the Bush Administration has made. The War on Terror has been as much of a disaster as Iraq and Afghanistan has. But, taking out a rag tag terrorist organization didn’t really require troops or a trillion dollar budget where he could play ‘tough guy’ and strut like a peacock. Bush couldn’t make as big a splash taking out a few terrorist’s as he could tearing up a couple of countries. They haven’t even begun to estimate how much it’s going to cost the American taxpayer in repartitions or the cost of repairing two countries we destroyed. I hope all the Bushie’s are happy with the maniac they put in office.
abe w goodman,
I am afraid that you are off by a factor of 10. The $3,000,000,000,000 estimate of the cost would amount to the equivalent of giving every Iraqi $120,000, not $12,000.
On the bright side, the Iraqi freedom fighters may have very well stopped the US from establishing a globally dominant fascist state with totalitarian fascism here at home. So the news is not all bad.
I have one question for you realtors/mortgage bankers, housing activists:
Given that we are in a major crisis with housing and real estate in this country — given that possibly millions of people might lose their homes — how many people might be spared this indignity if we weren’t blowing $3 trillion in Iraq/Afghanistan and were actually providing housing subsidies for our own people?
I should think $1 trillion would make a difference for a lot of people. For that matter $1 billion would have helped more than a few.
rebelnow,
You gave me an idea. We probably might get sued by Mastercard, but given the world of soundbytes, our anti-war message could be a commercial advertisement showing the cost of war, cost to the country when you have imbeciles leading it, and ultimately something to the nature of “Sending Republican and Democratic War Criminals to Prison: priceless.” With computers and animation, we could show images of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, etc. in handcuffs being hauled away to prison. With the right images, the message just might stick. Obviously the major television networks will not show it, but it could be viewed on YouTube, Facebook, etc. What do all of you think?
Proud Americans: $$$$$ “America invaded Iraq to depose a dictator we did not fear to deprive him of weapons he did not possess in retaliation for an attack upon us in which he did not participate.” $$$$$
We’re the ‘insurgents’ in Iraq.
“In accordance with the principles of double-think, it does not matter if the war is not real. For when it is, victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, but it is meant to be continuous…A hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance, this new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle, the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia but to keep the very structure of society intact.”
George Orwell, “Nineteen Eighty Four”
The comments coming from the White House can only be acceptable by the mentally challenged - a comment like, ‘how many terrorist attacks were prevented ‘ since 9/11. Have they forgotten it was not Iraqis and Afghans who attacked the US at that time, but legal resident Saudis in the majority. As thanks for it, the US Administration allowed ONLY Saudis to leave the country the next day! All the invasion has given the Americans and the world is nearly 4,000 dead young people and about a million dead Iraqis, plus 30% of Iraqis displaced in Syria, Jordan and other Iraqi cities! Had they left the Russians alone at the time instaed of supporting the Mujahadin/Taliban {Osama bin Laden}, the Soviets would have done the job for us and should have been supported…But they were ‘evil’ communists, I forgot!
MASTERSHAKE
‘if it ever dawns on the military men and women’ the operative word being IF………..
CLAUDIUS
you want the truth, or a polite answer?
WARZONED
what i want to know is: where do all these millions of people go when they lose their homes?
Hi Coco,
It is a silly idea that has no chance of becoming reality. I was just playing on what rebelnow was saying. If you must, go ahead with the truth.
CLAUDIUS
i thought for a minute you were serious………and thought the idea has about as much chance of succeeding as the chance of me winning the lottery (especially as i don’t buy tickets……….)
Hi~CoCo~ You ask where do all of the millions go when they lose their homes? ___ Good question.
We have a lot of homeless people in America, some live in abandonded autos or vans under bridges, some live in abandoned mobil homes. We once saw a family of five, two adults and three very cute kids of ages of about five to seven, who lived in an abandoned house in northern Maine.
The small three room, un-insulated house, had broken windows, a dirt floor, no electrical power, no appliances or heat, no running water or a toilet. It was very cold weather at night and they all slept in sleeping bags on the floor. During the day, they all worked picking potatoes. When the picking season ended they moved away. They did have a beat up van which barely ran. They did not appear to be immigrants. It was sad ___ and this is America.
That was 1960, and the houding situation we are having now was not an issue then. When all of these new millions of homeless hit the streets, I have no idea of what will transpire. I know that if and when a depression hits, it will be billions, not millions roaming the streets and country sides. This illegal war and occupation we have with Iraq is going to be the cause of our depression.
Buy a lotttery ticket CoCo. Here are the numbers. 1-17-18-33-39-51. If it’s a Power Ball ticket, the additional number is -19.
KEM PATRICK
that’s so sad and unecessary about those poor people. it’s also very sad about the displaced iraqis. we should be very grateful for what we have. i haven’t a clue what a power ball ticket is. here in europe the lottery is every friday and i believe it’s only 5 numbers. so next week i’ll buy one and put in 5 of your numbers. if i win, i’ll send you a ticket to come and visit………….
Coco, Kem,
As to where people will end up, I look at the Bush Admin track record and get this vision of post-Katrina trailer parks; people living in FEMA type trailers — thousands upon thousands of them. A new ghetto except no longer in the inner city but spread out across the country.
Those will be the lucky ones; others won’t even get the trailer. They will be in the streets, hiding in parks, under bridges, sleeping in bus & train stations…
It is going to be a nightmare and we are just at the beginning of it.
Well, don’t forget those 800+ Fema prisons, with the gas and coal fired “cram-atoriums”.
Take out number -51- Coco. Get a ship ticket, I don’t fly anymore. Do I leave my wife home babe?
WARZONED
but surely the government won’t provide these trailers for something that is not a ‘natural’ disater……….
KEM PATRICK
ships are dangerouse. they have nasty bugs and viruses. i’ll buy you a canoe and you can bring your wife so she can paddle…………
Strange but true. A fellow once crossed the Atlantic from “Mauntauk” Point Long Island, to England, wearing only a rubber suit and used an umbrella for a sail. He carried provisions in a large attached inner tube.
He would float on his back and propped the open umbrella on his crossed feet. I forget how long he was at sea, but believe it was about a month. He also fished along the way and ate seaweed. ___Guess it was cheap intertainment. He didn’t take his wife along.