Senator John McCain's vote last week against a bill to curtail the Central Intelligence Agency's use of harsh interrogation tactics disappointed human rights advocates who consider him an ally and led Democrats to charge that he was trying to please Republicans as he seeks to rally them around his presidential bid.
The bill, which the Senate passed Wednesday by 51 to 45, would force the C.I.A. to abide by the rules set out in the Army Field Manual on Interrogation, which prohibits physical force and lists approved interrogation methods.
Mr. McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, has led the battle in recent years on a number of bills to end torture by the United States. He said he voted against the bill Wednesday because legislation he had helped to pass already prohibits the C.I.A. from "cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment."
Mr. McCain, of Arizona, said he believed it would be a mistake to limit C.I.A. interrogators to using only those techniques that were enumerated in the Field Manual, which he noted was a public document.
"When we passed the Military Commissions Act, we said that the C.I.A. should have the ability to use additional techniques," Mr. McCain told reporters Friday in Oshkosh, Wis. "None of those techniques would entail violating the Detainee Treatment Act, which said that cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment are prohibited."
The problem, human rights advocates say, is that disagreement remains over which tactics are prohibited. Mr. McCain, for example, said waterboarding - a simulated drowning technique - was an illegal form of torture. But while the C.I.A. says it no longer uses waterboarding, the Bush administration has not ruled out its use in the future.
"It's disappointing," said Jennifer Daskal, a senior counsel at Human Rights Watch, "that Senator McCain, who has long made it clear that Congress had intended to outlaw abusive interrogation techniques including waterboarding, won't stand up to an administration that continues to say waterboarding is O.K. in certain circumstances."
Although Mr. McCain has battled the Bush administration over whether waterboarding is illegal, his vote on Wednesday allied him with President Bush, who has threatened to veto the bill.
Democrats have used the vote to suggest that Mr. McCain was trying to curry favor with conservatives in the Republican Party, who have viewed him with suspicion and whose support he needs as he tries to unite the party behind his presidential campaign. The Democratic National Committee said in a statement last week that Mr. McCain had chosen "pandering over his principles."
Mr. McCain said the vote was consistent, noting in a statement he submitted to the Congressional Record that when Congress voted in 2005 to apply the Army Field Manual to the entire Department of Defense, it deliberately excluded the C.I.A.
Mr. McCain, according to a Senate aide of his, believes that while the C.I.A. should be - and is - prohibited from using cruel and inhumane and degrading tactics, it should have the flexibility to use acceptable tactics that are not listed in the Field Manual.
Elisa Massimino, the Washington director of Human Rights First, said given the administration's refusal to clearly ban abusive techniques, it made sense for Congress to be more explicit about what should and should not be allowed. Requiring the C.I.A. to follow the Field Manual, Ms. Massimino added, would be a welcome step in that direction.
"We're very disappointed in his vote," she said of Mr. McCain. "Because of his personal history and his leadership on this issue, it sends a terrible message to the rest of the world, to Americans, to the troops."
Mr. McCain, in his statement to the Congressional Record, faulted the Bush administration for declining to declare waterboarding illegal. He said Congress intended to outlaw the practice when it passed the Military Commissions Act in 2006 and was even reassured by the administration that it had been.
"Staging a mock execution by inducing the misperception of drowning is a clear violation of this standard," Mr. McCain said in the statement. "Indeed, during the negotiations, we were personally assured by administration officials that this language, which applies to all agencies of the U.S. government, prohibited waterboarding."
"It is unfortunate," he continued, "that the reluctance of officials to stand by this straightforward conclusion has produced in the Congress such frustration that we are today debating whether to apply a military field manual to nonmilitary intelligence activities. It would be far better, I believe, for the administration to state forthrightly what is clear in current law - that anyone who engages in waterboarding, on behalf of any U.S. government agency, puts himself at risk of criminal prosecution and civil liability."
© 2008 The New York Times
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62 Comments so far
Show AllDems have prettier packages. Worrying about us? It's all the same.
Bumper sticker; " IT AIN'T TORTURE UNLESS THEY DO IT"
Knowing that liberals hate McCain could make some Repugs vote for him.
You know if it wasn't for us Peaceniks ending the war in Viet Nam, McCain would still be sittin in a North Vietnam prison.
Maybe we should apologize now.
Here's a good CONSPIRACY theory- or what they call now 'campaigning':
If you believe that the power behind the M$M either 1. is, or is close to the power behind the parties or 2. closely tied to the Republican Pary, than would it be a benificial decision for the M$M & Co. to not say anything, but to let McCain 'rightwing' detractors go on yelling at McCain in order to give McCain more credibility among non-republican voters... because Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line....?
Or, they don't see a chance to win, and McCain is just a sacrificial lamb to ratings, and maybe to GOP consolidation or neocon reconsolidatation?
another point of view: CIA don't like it because the ammendum sets a specific and spelled out list (army manual) which would do away with their broad rule (open to interpretation). I don't like it because it empowers the CIA at the cost of liberty in general and american credibility in particular. And it empowers the CIA. (god, how droll and procedure and politk was that leg. session?)
The Army (in this scenario at least) are the hall monitors, the CIA are the bullies in the yard.
And yes, he seems to be trying to please the pro-war base. I'd like to think that even the republican party rank and file members would be so thirsting for leadership that McCain could have gone totally a different way on this, but what do I know?
I'm sure anyone can call any polititian evil or slime or some such, but do you ever think about what that individual would do without all the 'political' pressure? I sometimes imagine how Kucinich would cave (or be called whatever) if he had a serious shot at the presidency. Tell me the old saying again- it's easy to have scroupels when you have no responsibility? (Maybe someone will write about how everyone- not just those they don't like or themselves- are responsible for culture, and how responsibility goes over the long term... no one act is responsible for the 'mood' and 'tolerence' of a people.
A person is smart. People are stupid and scared.
The Young Turks is the name of a Vlog/Blog.
Like quite a few Pro-Obama and Voter Advocacy Blogs right now, they're experiencing slow downs and frequent unavailability.
It originates in a 20th Century slang term.
"Today the phrase is used to describe any faction impatient with delay or defeat, seeking action. Party regulars use it patronizingly, but those so labeled do not resent it. The phrase was eclipsed for a time by 'angry young men.'"
This from origins of phrases... a fun little website
Sorry for the confusion (maybe)
Either way, McCain's Imperial aspirations are terrifying.
Here's a question. Do you think, given his wanton pandering, he'll yield to those in the GOP now, that would have us round up, incarcerate and deport 12 MILLION illegal immigrants?
That'll be interesting, eh?
I could 'pull the lever' for McCain -- but I get to choose the 'lever', right?
"McCain is branded in my mind… he is severely damaged goods… as the Young Turks pointed out the other day…"
The original Young Turks, like Attaturk himself, were 'Crypto-Jews' whilst in disguise (whatever 'C-J'-really-means). One thing it meant was "they were skilled as 'victims', also"...and surely made Victims out of a LOT of others (Armenians included).
And, the ME is STILL taking its 'Turkish-Bath'...!
Someone above said: "First everyone should realize this clown is a repug. Has anyone figured out why not a single military man in Hanoi Hilton with him won't even have a conversation or a cup of coffee?"
Yes, we have. This prisoner of the North Vietnamese, shot down in 1967, was a very important person - the son and grandson of admirals. Only 20 years before, (think from 1988 to now,) the USA had hung all the top Nazis at Nuremberg for "war crimes." Just in case they lost their war with us, the Viet Cong wanted to do nothing that might cause them to end up at the end of a rope.
Consequently, John McCain was given special priveliges and treated far better than his fellow prisoners. Ever since, he has been making political capital and garnering sympathy for being "tortured" by the Vietnamese. In one word - Bullshit!! This is why none of his fellow prisoners want to speak with him or have anything to do with him.
As another commentator expressed it pithily above, "McCain deserves an Oscar for the best performance by a prostitute acting in the role of a statesman."
John McCain has lost it. Just look at that photo at the top of the article - what you see are the aged eyes of early-onset Alzheimer's staring blankly out at the world. IF he gets elected, remember you read it here first in the "Comments" on Common Dreams - he will never complete his first term. He will suffer mental incapacity, and be persuaded to step down. It is pointless to discuss his motives and reasoning here in the comments - he does not have any. His only motive right now is to say and do whatever it takes to get elected, so he can go to his deathbed saying "I made it." As for what comes AFTER January 20, 2009, he has not thought that far yet. Maybe he never will. Maybe the country will do the smart thing and NOT elect him. It all depends who runs against him. If it's Hillary, McCain will win, and then God help us all.
McCain sucks ass for a vote.
"More Troops" McCain has been selling his soul since the 2000 election. The last straw for me was when Bush produced one of his signing statements that said he had every intention of ignoring McCain's anti-torture bill. And McCain said nothing. Not a peep. What a wimp! That's one of the reasons I made a video that dissed the guy (go to YouTube and type in "mcain music video eskit"). Gotta run – I've got another anti-McCain video to work on.
Okay, yea, right on! But don't forget the f*&^king Democratic enablers that allowed all the war mongering and funded it like Obama and Clinton. Don't let the bastards off the hook!
Vote 3rd party! Vote your PRINCIPLES! Sleep tight knowing you are not a sell-out voting for what you don't want which a continuation of the war. Dump the Dims!
Mccain is the biggest warmonger in the 21st century. The repukes trying to sell him as a moderate is as big as lie as selling bush as a "uniter" and not a "divider". I'm sure all of us on this website understand the duplicity in MSM but when they make such ridiculously laughable assertions we all need to stop and wonder why?
And then the answer becomes obvious, the giant multinational war contracting corporations who's top tax rate is 7% under the bushes tax policies benefit the most from his robbing the treasury and America of its future prosperity. Therefore McCain is their boy, which they want Americans to believe is a moderate….god if this was not so sick and extremely dangerous to millions of innocent people worldwide it would be a great joke…
If you want moderate policies vote maccain...lmao..sorry but it is too funny...
Without question, John McCain gets the Oscar for best performance by a prostitute acting in the role of a statesman. He blasted Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson for their intolerance in 2000, but is now kissing the rings on their fingers in the run-up to 2008. McCain knows first-hand what a deplorable politician George Bush is, and yet gave a disgusting endorsement speech of him at the 2004 Republican convention--a speech in which he referred to Dick Cheney as a "steady, experienced, public-spirited man." Sad.
The Bush campaign accused McCain of having an illegitimate child who was the product of an extramarital affair with a black woman, when in fact the girl is his adopted daughter from Bangladesh. Astonishingly, McCain now has hired some of these same people for his own campaign whom he had previously accused of distorting his record, of running "dishonest and dishonorable" ads swift-boating John Kerry, and of using slimy race-baiting ads to defeat Harold Ford in Tennessee only months ago. An amoral person.
John McCain is a presidential candidate who'd rather lose his principles than the office. John McCain--not a man of integrity.
McCain, the hypocritical senator from Arizona, went on 60 Minutes to decry a footnote in the Defense Appropriations Bill of 2004 that transferred billions of dollars from so-called Operations and Maintenance accounts for US troops in Iraq to porkbarrel projects in the states of powerful senators. But what he failed to disclose is the fact that he actually voted for the bill. Not only that, he was personally approached by each senator who wanted just such a transfer of funds and gave it his seal of approval.
McCain the Maverick is a merely a fine-honed act, underscored by these kinds of casual hypocrisies. In the past couple of years, McCain has been portrayed as one of the doves the senate. It's a stunning transformation and a phony one. Instead, throughout his career in Congress McCain has often been one of the hottest hawks around and he still supports the war in Iraq and claims to believe in its ultimate success.
McCain is legendary among those who have worked with him for a pathologically vicious temper, also for his skill in adopting apparently principled stands which are never exposed to any rigorous test. In fact, colleagues in the Senate accurately regard McCain as a mere grandstander. This man has already started his campaign for president. Is this the kind of person you want to make critical decisions that affect your life?
McCain, the senator from Arizona and the darling of the Republican party, has always been far more conservative than either his supporters or detractors acknowledge. In 2004 he earned a perfect 100 percent rating from Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle Forum and a 0 percent from NARAL. He has opposed extension of the assault-weapons ban, federal hate crimes legislation and the International Criminal Court. He has supported school vouchers, a missile defense shield and private accounts for Social Security. But that's all part of the McCain profile. He is the senator of the hollow protest. McCain is nothing if not a political stunt man. His chief stunt is the evocation of political piety. From his pulpit in the well of the senate, McCain gestures and fumes about the evils of Pentagon porkbarrel. He rails about useless and expensive weapons systems, contractor malfeasance, and bloated R&B budgets. But he does nothing about them. McCain pontificates, but never obstructs. He is content to let ride that which he claims to detest in press releases and senate speeches. A hypocrite of the first order. Remember him in 2008.
Hey people, John can't be all bad. He is disliked by James
Dobson, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura
Ingraham, Michelle Malkin, and Glenn Beck. (per Newsweek)
Now that has to be a plus for him. If those assholes are against
him then he must be doing something right. It's a shame he wants
to fight a war for the next 100 years. No, like Laura Ingraham says, "There is no way in hell I could pull the lever for John McCain."
Hey since I was tortured everybody should get to try it!
McCain is mentally ill. He belongs in a lunatic asylum where he can receive treatment. I can't believe that he is running for President of the United States instead. We must be in the Twilight Zone.
John McCain a shell? I don't think so. Clearly, he's nothing but an asshole, clear and simple. In all fairness though, in Washington there are plenty more of his species.
Please let the sun set on this shell of a man.
The question is asked by Tailcap: (Thanks. We need to know the laws the US government is violating.)
"SO WHY ARE THE DEMOCRATS LEAD BY PELOSI, OBAMA, CLINTON, AND REID NOT SCREAMING FOR IMPEACHMENT?"
Pelosi was briefed about the interrogation war crimes. She said nothing. She failed to blow the whistle. She was and is complicit. So are many of the others. They voted to fund the illegal occupation. They don't bring up torture and illegal interrogations in the debates.
They are part of the corporate, conservative regime that has ruled over our nation since the 1970s.
We need to oust them, try them for their war crimes and restore majority rule and the international rule of law.
The means we need to implement the entire progressive strategy, including a constitutional convention, growing the Green Party, infiltrating and taking over the Democratic Party. It is a big job. But there is no alternative. For while the US corporate conservative regime plays the control the world game, opportunities for preventing ecocide and creating a sustainable civilization is slipping away. All is at stake, especially for the genrations of tomorrow.
behold a man eating his principles and recognize that anyone who will betray his most deeply held beliefs will betray anything and anyone. r.i.p. senator mccain. even we who differed strenuously with you expected more.
these people can rationalize anything
social pathology is an epidemic
it's the top down corporate mentality of america
we can do anything to anyone, then hire million dollar think tanks to do Public Relations and damage control... spin
McCain is branded in my mind... he is severely damaged goods... as the Young Turks pointed out the other day... this is McCain selling the last shred of his soul
he's a shell... no more victim pass for this perpetrator
If those Arabs were cows, Bush and McCain would be in jail right now....
SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. - Two former slaughterhouse workers were charged Friday with abusing ailing cattle in a case based on undercover video footage showing crippled and sick animals being shoved with forklifts.
Authorities said Navarro and Sanchez were seen in the Humane Society video, which showed workers kicking, shocking and otherwise abusing "downer" animals that were apparently too sick or injured to walk into the slaughterhouse. Some animals had water forced down their throats, San Bernardino County District Attorney Michael Ramos said.
And "he sold the last of his self-respect" in Vietnam...thanks to his Daddy.
[Which may be one-of-many things (aside from a Presidency) he has in Common with his butt-buddy, boy-George...]
Why doesn't he 'draw criticism' for whatever that Thing is, growing out of the side of his face?
Eeeeeww!
I think Grampa McCain had finally gone totally senile...I love the picture..looks like he just took a dump in his Depends.
When you are 71 it is time to spend time with your grandchildren, not time to aspire to the Presidency. He is out of touch with his humanity and needs to find it soon.
A priceless McCain quote:
"I suffer from PTSD but I'm not crazy."
Yet many fear that McCain is insane !
I find it terribly sad to watch an old coot like McCain sell his soul and the last of his self-respect for a chance to lose the presidential race for the Republiscums...its sort of like watching an old man chase after a teenage skirt while she spends his lifesavings.
But, like they say, there is no whore like an old whore.
Earthian February 17th, 2008 5:33 pm
Thank you for the info: Third Geneva Convention, Article 17 makes that clear: No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever.
Now if Bush admits that waterboarding has been used on al Qaeda prisoners that amounts to a confession of being a war criminal, plain and simple.
SO WHY ARE THE DEMOCRATS LEAD BY PELOSI, OBAMA, CLINTON, AND REID NOT SCREAMING FOR IMPEACHMENT?
Then these spineless cowards have the gall to call the kettle black; The Democratic National Committee said in a statement last week that Mr. McCain had chosen "pandering over his principles."
Reason enough to dump the Dims and go with YOUR PRINCIPLES and vote 3rd party, be it Green, Socialists or whatever. Don't waste your vote on an unprincipled Democrat that do exactly what they accuse the opposition party of doing.
McCain and so many others in Congress are engaged in massive war crimes. So, of course, are members of the Executive Branch. Even Scalia in the Supreme Court has recently incited war crimes by encouraging coercive interrogations. What matters here is the law.
All coercive interrogations are illegal. All prisoners— war prisoners or civilian prisoners—must be fully informed that they may not be rewarded for talking nor punished for not talking. They have an absolute right to be silent except for the four questions allowed by Article 17 of the 3rd Geneva Convention.
Only the vast ignorance of the American people (including many progressives) permits this illegality to continue.
Here are some of the laws:
Prisoners of war are given in the explicit right not to have to answer questions except for four.
In the Third Geneva Convention, Article 17 makes that clear:
Article 17

"Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information. . . . No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."
If they are not prisoners of war, then they are civilians.
And in the Fourth Geneva Convention for civilians, it says:
Article 31

"No physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against protected persons, in particular to obtain information from them or from third parties."
These two conventions are the "supreme law of the land" as "treaties made" as declared by the Constitution in Article 6 (2).
Torture is illegal and a war crime. Coercive interrogations are illegal and are war crimes. The penalty for war crimes under the 1964 War Crimes act includes death when prisoners die. (Amended 1996)
Here is the law. We all need to know these things folks. Tell all of your friends.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Democracy_America/Global_Dominance_TTO...
p157

"The War Crimes Act
The United States enacted section 2441 of Title 18 of the United States Code to enforce the Geneva Conventions. Section 2441 states that "[w]hoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death." In its pertinent part, subsection (c) defines a war crime as:
(1) a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party;
(2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18 October 1907;
(3) which constitutes a violation of common Article 3 of the international conventions signed at Geneva, 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party …"
SHOW ME
Senators McCain and Kerry reportedly had their military records sealed when their records became relevant to the truth of falsity of claims made by and for each regarding their roles in the war.
What proof is their that McCain was tortured other than his statements? If it is established by independent evidence that he was tortured, what evidence, other than his statements, is there regarding the nature of the torture administered?
Senator McCain has shown over and over again that he is short on intergrity.
Randolfski,
There are, undoubtedly, lists. I remember trying to get a job in Washington, D.C. one time.
But the more of us who speak up, the safer we are, I believe, and I hope not naively.
Also, the goons have to be getting a little demoralized with their support down to less than one third.
That's what I want-- their demoralization.
And extinction of their destructive course in the behavioral sense since they are incapable of responding to reason.
I lived in Arizona for more than 40 years. Barry Goldwater was our hero. He wrote a plain-spoken book, "The Conscience of a Conservative." It was a hell of a book. I left the Democrats for Barry Goldwater. John McCain thinks he is the new Goldwater, but Mr. McCain is losing his sanity, his wisdom and his appeal. I have seen him slip little by little for years, "my friends."
I challenge all of you to talk to your friends, tell them the real story on John McCain, once a naval officer, as I was. He has lost his senses, perhaps the result of being tortured, I wouldn't know. But I am completely repelled by his softspoken speeches that somehow turn my stomach. I actually feel sorry for him. DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS MAN!!!!
Are we having a Mc - son of CAIN sequel? (I realise that 'McCain' comes from Gaelic roots but an association is inevitable) The bible may be one of the most damaging divisive ethno centric books ever written, but with a perpetual writers strike, we seem to be replaying the old drama scenes over and over again.
Then again hundreds of thousands of soldiers and hundreds of millions diverted from the military-industrial-political complex could help local populations replant the garden with the needed billions of productive orchard trees. Already we're talking war reparations in the trillions to Iraquis alone.
Then the Lord said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?" "I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's guardian?" Then He said, "What have you done? Your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground! So now you are cursed [with alienation][37] from the ground that opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood you have shed. If you work the land, it will never again give you its yield. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth." But Cain answered the Lord, "My punishment[38] is too great to bear! Since You are banishing me today from the soil, and I must hide myself from Your presence and become a restless wanderer on the earth, whoever finds me will kill me." 15Then the Lord replied to him, "In that case,[39] whoever kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over."[40] And He placed a mark on Cain so that whoever found him would not kill him.
john, john, john.......... it was the one thing you did that i respected. voting against the US as legal torturer. do you not see us rolling our eyes up in our heads as we read you saying these words. you were tortured. you know what it did to torturer and torturee. And you refuse to stand up to this belief that torture is okay because of the ticking time bomb. stop playing on our fear, god damn it. stop repeating lines out of television dramas as if they are reality. we are a country built on the trust of there being a strong side to balance our human frailties. Human kindness, patience, non-judgementalness. Why are these not exalted in our US values. Violence is not part of that strong side and i urge you to reject it. No god damn occupation for 100 years. ancient rome is dead and the US, as mighty as it may be, will not be the empire that succeeds. Down with competition and up with cooperation as a US value. Thought police, you probably know where to find me by now.
Where did you learn these techniques, John McCain, and why did you push the Military Commissions Act of 2006 through Congress to make them law?
Do 'heroes' try people based on evidence they were compelled to give?
Do 'heroes' detain people illegally and indefinitely?
Do 'heroes' legalize war crimes?
Do 'heroes' torture?
ha ha OldBadgertoo.
I think I just woke up, could someone tell me when we became a country that celebrates sycophants as celebrity and leaders? And how could torture, war, not counting the dead, Guantanamo, Abu Gahrib, New Orleans, ad nauseum... occur on the 'watch' of a morally righteous Christian President such as Mr. Bush, who told us that his favorite philosopher was Jesus?
No, I am lost in some sort of black hole aren't I?
The son of Cain indeed.
Even though McCain's vote against the Senate bill that would limit CIA interrogators to the Army Field Manual techniques provides a valid basis, don't hold your breath waiting for the Democratic Party to lead a public discussion about the evils of torture (and the Bush administration's embrace of torture as official US policy) during the upcoming Presidential campaign.
Because the DC Democratic leadership chose to stand in the background and hold John McCain's coat on the issue of torture in the spirit of bipartisan cooperation, it's now pretty much a dead issue: Hillary, Barack, McCain and Huckabee all publicly oppose tortue, including waterboarding.
Thus, the mysterious silence of the Kerry campaign in 2004 about Bush/Cheney's gutting of the Geneva Conventions, combined with McCain's eventual emergence as the GOP's nominee, pretty much insures that Little George will escape all domestic political accountability for the Abu Ghraib scandal, Gitmo, and the decisions he personally made trashing established international standards that law that define and prohibit torture, and cruel and degrading treatment of prisoners.
Bill from Saginaw
McCain went to prison for the same reason Tim McVeigh went to prison: they were both bombers, and both were caught. Neither repented, but McCain was let out. And what is his father famous for? Leading the coverup of Israel's attack on the Liberty.
Torture is not as effective as more humane techniques of interrogation. It is useful for extorting false confessions, and for inciting retaliatory terrorist responses. Those who carry it out in the name of the US are traitors.
Even my Solid Republican 70ish parents can't bring themselves to vote for this tool. They told me their thinking of voting for Obama. I was shocked, but it seems even dyed in the wool Republicans can't stand up for this total whore.
John McCain has completely surrendered to the Republican feudal regime, giving up what little sense he had. The same thing happened to Bob Dole whose generally fiscally responsible career was entirely abandoned in favor of the bankrupt financial flim flam of Reagonomics. Now we have Reagonomics on steroids in Bu$h the inferiors' regime of treason and larceny.
The previous comments cover the torture
side of McCain quite well. I therefore
offer the following as comment on another
facet of the man, his war promotion side.
A debate is being held somewhere in the United States.
Senator John McCain: If we pull out of Iraq, it'll be very, very ugly.
Yooper (an androgynous man-and-woman of the street): It already is ugly.
Senator McCain: You defeatist!
Yooper: We've already been defeated in Iraq.
Voice from audience: YOU JUST DON'T LIKE
PRESIDENT BUSH!
McCain: Who, me? I like President Bush fine.
Voice: NO, THE OTHER ONE!
Yooper: Hooray for the surge, hooray for the surge, I cry these words an I have the urge!
Voice: You just don't like PRESIDENT BUSH!
McCain: He, I mean she, doesn't. And what all these dopes don't realize, my friends, is that there will be terrible bloodshed dwarfing anything we've seen. More, there will be one thousand mushroom
clouds, and five thousand terrorist attacks on the 7-11 in Front Royal, Virginia. The glaciers will melt...
Yooper: The glaciers will melt anyway.
McCain: Anthrax and plague all over the earth.
Yooper: Sort of like when the British withdrew from India.
Voice: YOU JUST DON'T LIKE PRESIDENT BUSH!
Who do you think you are, Jane Fonda, moonbat!!!?
Yooper: (burps)
"I was against torture, but now I'm for it". The republicans were screaming "Don't vote for
Kerry, he's a flip-flopper.
If this all happened just before the election, then we could hope that he would be destroyed, but there are months to go. Will the US voters really be bothered by what he has said now?
Claughery: you could be right here, he is just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which unfortunately, very often turns out to be the majority.
His soul curmudgeon99.
Somewhere along the line - - the price for his chance at becoming President of the United States of America, seems to have been his soul.
John McCain was tortured. For 5 years - try and imagine the horror, the pain, the torment, physically, psychologically, and emotionally, that you must endure, relentlessly one moment at a time. Most people won't even begin to understand the level of suffering I just described.
But John McCain, he knows and then some, exactly about the agony of TORTURE.
This is why I feel the price he is being asked to pay is his soul. Ironic isn't it? Politically it is the Christian right, the moral majority, who are the ideological and financial force behind his run for president.
Plain and simple.
Political WHORE!
I wonder what his price was for his vote. Votes? money? power?
I would think that John McCain would be something of an expert on torture, at least from the perspective of a victim. His own experiences as a POW in Vietnam as described in this wikipedia article seem to verify that.
As for me this description of the practice and effects of Waterboarding does seem a bit extreme; "carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death"
This practice brings to mind stories of the witch trials in much earlier times. The accused witch is said to have been repeatedly dunked under water or bound and thrown into a pond or river. If the accused floated that was Satan's power saving them and if they sank and drowned they were innocent.
I think that if our police were allowed to use techniques such as this when questioning suspects we could save a great deal of money. After all, many people are suspected of murder or other violent crimes and are consequently a danger to American people just like suspected terrorists are. A signed confession means that no long expensive trial is necessary and so the cost savings would be huge.
How terribly, terribly sad that McCain again provides proof of what most politicians are doing these days, currying favor with blocks of voters in order to get elected, never mind what they have stood for in the past going down the drain along with their integrity. I always thought McCain was different, but the last few years of Bush-hugs and flip-flopping from his positions during the 2000 election show he is no better than the rest of them. Trust? Out the window. Just tell them what you think they want to hear. Reminds me of the movie 'No Way Out' with Kevin Costner. Will Patton, who played Gene Hackman's (as senator running for Pres) closet gay aid, secretly in love with the Senator, tells Costner....'but you don't understand! If we can just take care of this (one more dead body, one more in-the-way-person lied about and done away with) and get into office, we can do GREAT things!'
And they really believe it! No matter the promises made to lobbyists or to huge corporations who put the money in their campaign accounts!
Personally, I don't see the difference in what the politicos promise to each group and what they will deliver once they claim the office..it's all a sham. There is only one on the horizon I have any good feelings about at all, and I pray he makes it into office regardless of his 'lack of experience'....which to me just means he hasn't bought into the power and greed enough to lie and compromise himself in order to get there.
WE really need to focus our intention on the candidate that wants Peace the most - for ALL peoples of the world - and is willing to go beyond the limited minds keeping the world in bondage through their control propaganda of fear and greed.
Everyone seems to be missing the point. If an illegal act is committed, those that did it, those who authorised it, and those who could have prevented it but did nothing must stand before a court and plead their case.
This is nonsense. Torture is a crime. If it isn't then it's okay if I get some guy I don't like and tie him up underneath my garden tap and turn it on full. Is that okay or not? We do have 'one law for all' don't we?
Until someone is prosecuted for torture because it is an illegal act, politicians will go around and around in circles. The very fact that people are asking what politicians 'think' is an indication that the legal system needs work.
Let's see what a pollitician or public servant thinks if someone, anyone, is convicted of 'waterboarding' and is serving 10 years prison for it. Then we get some kind of realistic result.
John McCain's words and actions regarding the "torture" vote, can you believe that we are torturing (?), indicates to me a man who is deeply and profoundly, psychologically compromised.
How else could a man who has been tortured engage in such public behaviour?
It is quite sad to see a hero fall to the dark side.
may you find healing Senator McCain.
Thanks so much for the the timely prophecy of Orwell satr9prodxns concerning torture. I am horrified that I belong to a nation who not only murders with cluster bombs and tainted uranium bombs in illegal urban warfare, but TORTURES.
WE ARE TORTURERS. WE ARE A VERY VERY VERY SICK NATION.
And those whom we might have looked to for moral leadership are the TORTURERS.
We are in so much trouble as a nation and a planet. Will mother earth scorch us off of her or freeze us off?
"And in the general hardening of outlook that set in … practices which had been long abandoned … — imprisonment without trial, the use of war prisoners as slaves, public executions, torture to extract confessions, the use of hostages and the deportation of whole populations — not only became common again, but were tolerated and even defended by people who considered themselves enlightened and progressive."
george orwell
1984
Somehow being an inhumane torture maven bodes ill for the McCain Family legacy. Is it the man or the age of the man?
John McCain has cool name. United Stupid Asses like to vote for that as well.