House Judiciary Trio Calls for Impeach Cheney Hearings
Three senior members of the House Judiciary Committee have called for the immediate opening of impeachment hearings for Vice President Richard Cheney.
Democrats Robert Wexler of Florida, Luis Gutierrez of Illinois and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin on Friday distributed a statement, “A Case for Hearings,” that declares, “The issues at hand are too serious to ignore, including credible allegations of abuse of power that if proven may well constitute high crimes and misdemeanors under our constitution. The charges against Vice President Cheney relate to his deceptive actions leading up to the Iraq war, the revelation of the identity of a covert agent for political retaliation, and the illegal wiretapping of American citizens.”
In particular, the Judiciary Committee members cite the recent revelation by former White House press secretary Scott McClellan that the Vice President and his staff purposefully gave him false information about the outing of Valerie Plame Wilson as a covert agent as part of a White House campaign to discredit her husband, former Ambassador Joe Wilson. On the basis of McClellan’s statements, Wexler, Gutierrez and Baldwin say, “it is even more important for Congress to investigate what may have been an intentional obstruction of justice.” The three House members argue that, “Congress should call Mr. McClellan to testify about what he described as being asked to ‘unknowingly [pass] along false information.’”
Adding to the sense of urgency, the members note that “recent revelations have shown that the Administration including Vice President Cheney may have again manipulated and exaggerated evidence about weapons of mass destruction — this time about Iran’s nuclear capabilities.”
Although Wexler, Gutierrez and Baldwin are close to Judiciary Committee chair John Conyers, getting the Michigan Democrat to open hearings on impeachment will not necessarily be easy. Though Conyers was a leader in suggesting during the last Congress that both President Bush and Vice President Cheney had committed impeachable offenses, he has been under immense pressure from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California, to keep Constitutional remedies for executive excesses “off the table” in this Congress.
It is notable, however, that Baldwin maintains warm relations with Pelosi and that Wexler, a veteran member of the Judiciary Committee has historically had an amiable and effective working relationship with Conyers. There is no question that Conyers, who voted to keep open the impeachment debate on November 7, has been looking for a way to explore the charges against Cheney. The move by three of his key allies on the committee may provide the chairman with the opening he seeks, although it is likely he will need to hear from more committee members before making any kind of break with Pelosi — or perhaps convincing her that holding hearings on Cheney’s high crimes and misdemeanors is different from putting a Bush impeachment move on the table.
The most important immediate development, however, is the assertion of an “ask” for supporters of impeachment. Pulled in many directions in recent months, campaigners for presidential and vice presidential accountability have focused their attention on supporting a House proposal by Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich, a candidate for the Democratic presidential nod, to impeach Cheney. When Kucinich forced consideration of his resolution on November 7, Pelosi and her allies used procedural moves to get it sent to the Judiciary Committee for consideration. Pelosi’s hope was that the proposal would disappear into the committee’s files.
The call for hearings by Wexler, Gutierrez and Baldwin puts impeachment on the table, at least as far as activists are concerned, creating a pressure point that can serve as a reply when House Democrats who are critical of Bush but cautious about impeachment ask: “What do you want me to do?” The answer can now be: “Back the call for Judiciary Committee hearings on whether to impeach Dick Cheney?”
“Some of us were in Congress during the impeachment hearings of President Clinton. We spent a year and a half listening to testimony about President Clinton’s personal relations. This must not be the model for impeachment inquires. A Democratic Congress can show that it takes its constitutional authority seriously and hold a sober investigation, which will stand in stark contrast to the kangaroo court convened by Republicans for President Clinton. In fact, the worst legacy of the Clinton impeachment - where the GOP pursued trumped up and insignificant allegations - would be that it discourages future Congresses from examining credible and significant allegations of a constitutional nature when they arise,” write Wexler, Gutierrez and Baldwin.
“The charges against Vice President Cheney are not personal,” the House members add. “They go to the core of the actions of this Administration, and deserve consideration in a way the Clinton scandal never did. The American people understand this, and a majority support hearings according to a November 13 poll by the American Research Group. In fact, 70 percent of voters say that Vice President Cheney has abused his powers and 43 percent say that he should be removed from office right now. The American people understand the magnitude of what has been done and what is at stake if we fail to act. It is time for Congress to catch up.”
Arguing that hearings need not distract Congress, Wexler, Gutierrez and Baldwin note that the focus is on Cheney for a reason: “These hearings involve the possible impeachment of the Vice President — not our commander in chief — and the resulting impact on the nation’s business and attention would be significantly less than the Clinton Presidential impeachment hearings.”
They also argue, correctly, that the hearings are necessary if Congress is to restore its position in the Constitutionally-defined system of checks and balances.
“Holding hearings would put the evidence on the table, and the evidence — not politics — should determine the outcome,” the Judiciary Committee members explain. “Even if the hearings do not lead to removal from office, putting these grievous abuses on the record is important for the sake of history. For an Administration that has consistently skirted the constitution and asserted that it is above the law, it is imperative for Congress to make clear that we do not accept this dangerous precedent. Our Founding Fathers provided Congress the power of impeachment for just this reason, and we must now at least consider using it.”
John Nichols’ new book is The Genius of Impeachment: The Founders’ Cure for Royalism. Rolling Stone’s Tim Dickinson hails it as a “nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic [that] combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the ‘heroic medicine’ that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to ‘reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.’”
Copyright © 2007 The Nation
Long overdue. To bad it is for his lesser crimes. He was after all the one who let the plane hit the pentagon.
Cheney: “The orders still stand” as Flight 77 approaches the Pentagon with no action taken to defend it
Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the
Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as
Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the
9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:
“During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there
was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got
down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice
President, “Do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned
and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand.
Have you heard anything to the contrary?”
This man is destroying america, so save your country and impeach this criminal.
Strange that congress is worried about being distracted—from what? its duty to uphold the Constitution? Impeachment would focus attention on just how loathsome Republicans Cheney and Bush have been. We need this focus of attention; Americans could use some continuing education so that Republicans and their all too numerous Democratic allies can be driven out of office in 2008. Democrats don’t seem to understand their need to lead, to educate, to act courageously and morally. They don’t seem to understand their oaths of office. It still seems curious to me that Kucinich, the only candidate who had the courage to suggest impeachment, is considered fringe and not even allowed to debate in Iowa.
Good for Wexler, Gutierrez and Baldwin. Rich entertainment for an election season, and perhaps it would help our helpless candidates get their priorities straight.
greenuprising: yeah,Amen to what you said!
That’s good news, although Nancy Pelosi, being a Bush collaborator, will of course do whatever she can to obstruct impeachment hearings.
It’s unfortunate that the Democrats still allow their words and attitudes to be controlled by the Republican spin machine, even as they try to fight the Bush administration. “Arguing that hearings need not distract Congress, Wexler, Gutierrez and Baldwin note …” Distract Congress? From what? From performing its constitutional duty to impeach Bush and Cheney for their crimes and their attacks against our Constitution?
Pelosi doesn’t get it. She’s saying, “It’s the election cycle, stupid!”, and she can’t hear us yelling back, “no, it’s the Constitution, stupid!”
No doubt she will take the lazy-ass way and leave the constitution wounded and bleeding to death.
The constitution cannot right itself into happy exultation when these rapscallions are out. It will remain wounded and bleeding in January 2009, distended beyond all recognition of its former self, to be walked over by the next executive who wants it so.
So, assuming Cheney knows that he will defeat Pelosi in his game of “Beat the Clock”, how will he ever be brought under the law from his Presidential Suite in Dubai?
“If the impeachment provision in the Constitution of the United States will not reach the offenses charged here, then perhaps that 18th-century Constitution should be abandoned to a 20th-century paper shredder.” Rep. Barbara Jordon, July 25th, 1974
Pelosi is a coward – Conyers is AWOL
“The reign of witches will end someday soon” - Thomas Jefferson
There are 403 days ’til Jan. 20, 2009…
Well, now that we know that Pelosi has been conspiring with the Bush regime all along, for God knows what monetary benefit, it’s pretty simple to conclude she will do everything she can to obstruct impeachment hearings. The fingers will start pointing at her also…
Pocupine, you have quilled some very pointed arguments!You are right on target!(couldn’t resist the puns) Our elected officials duty is to uphold and protect our constitution. It is about time that they got busy doing their duty! They are swimming in a cesspool of corruption.
Impeach him or remove his battery.
Since the Brazen Trio are close to Conyers; maybe they will take a look around his office and see if they can help him find his lost convictions.
‘distaction’ and ‘media holiday/feeding frenzy’ are just two really poor excuses for the ‘bought and paid for’ congress to do nothing that benefits the People.
We must make every effort to insure that we remain a democratic government! This corporate facist must be removed! If Nixon brought this animal into government it must have been for a good corporate reason. Impeach and remove!!!
Wow, imagine that, wonder how far this one will go? I also wonder if Cheney is laughing about it? ___ I’d guess he is.
[Conyers] has been under immense pressure from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California, to keep Constitutional remedies for executive excesses “off the table” in this Congress
…thus paving the way for executive excesses by the next White House administration.
IMPEACH MULTI-MILLIONARE NANCY “WATERBOARD” PELOSI
SHE IS A NEOCON 5th COLUMIST
It is about time!
What Constitution?
Bush and Cheney have trashed it, Pelosi has insured it stays trashed and Conyers is the ONLY person on this planet who can uninsure her stand. And for some damn reason, we Americans allow it to continue. ___ No logical reason.
With the ILLEGAL wiretaps Bush and/or Cheney had installed in the telecom network closets, they must have picked up some real “dirt” on Pelosi and/or Conyers for them to keep impeachment off the table!
willybill says: I long ago gave up trusting either party. There is no doubt in my mind that Cheney’s actions demand impeachment…and conviction.
Which do you consider more likely - impeachment or conviction?
Someone from Germany asked my why they haven’t already impeached Bush like they did Clintion and then went on as to why (gender omitted) figured that Bush deserved it right down to his low popularity. And it dawned on me - Bush’s low popularity acts as a protective factor. Clinton’s impeachment over lying about - well, you know - was because Clinton was still popular.
Think of how much good a Bill Clinton with an untarnished reputation could have done Gore!
I doubt that any of the Republican candidates wants Bush to be their Ophrah or Steisand.
KEM PATRICK - Bush and Cheney did not trash your constitution - he just painted over it. The tricky part is to remove the new paint without damaging the document which still lies underneath.
And support Maher Arar in his case against the American Government - not only was his treatment in violation of your Constitution, but it seems that it was also in violation of the Patriot Act. Hard to believe that anything can be in violation of the Patriot Act, but it seems that there are things that still are!
Who would you rather see Cheney share a prison cell with?
a) Robert Picton
b) Lord Conrad Black
c) Ronald Allen Smith
d)
e)
f)
g)
Smith being interviewed on Death Row
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071112/ron_smith_071112/20071112/
And what are the odds that Karlheinz Shreiber did business with Cheney? I think that someone should be asking him that question!
Hi KEM! I agree with you…I’ll believe it when Conyers gets this to the floor of the House. Not before.
In the meantime, I want to thank the 3 Dems for standing up. Along with those that have signed on as co-sponsers of HR333. But we need more! This is not a partisan issue. Repugs are Americans too. They have also lost their rights under the Constitution and the Rule of Law. So, call your House Congress critter, no matter what strip, and get them on the side of the people. If they don’t want to get on the wagon, then the Congress itself becomes irrelevant. If they don’t represent the people and the Constitution, what the hell are they good for?
ezeflyer: You are getting funnier by the day! Keep ‘em comin’…..
vaudree December 14th, 2007 3:24 pm ….Am I missing some subtlety here? How can we have conviction without impeachment?
“…it is likely he will need to hear from more committee members before making any kind of break with Pelosi…”
Time to send some e-mails folks, especially if your representative is on the committee.
http://judiciary.house.gov/CommitteeMembership.aspx
Yawn!
This is a minority of members of the committee asking the chair to do something that the chair has been refusing to do for a year. Nothing going to happen here folks.
The Democratic Party runs in a top-down fashion, not bottom-up. So it don’t matter a bit what the people at the bottom say. Conyer takes his orders from Pelosi, who gets her orders from the big money backers of the party who want Bush and Cheney protected from impeachment.
Although at some point, I do kinda expect the Dem to do some sort of phony BS\political theater type of thing with this. When the Dems feel that they’ve run the clock out sufficiently that the full impeachment process can’t complete before Bush leaves office, ,then the Dems will do something phony just for show.
Someone wake me up when the Dems actually do something. On second thought, cancel that. Rip Van Winkle’s 20 years of sleep would be short compared to that wait.
Hmmm, you can’t impeach a member of the House of Reps.
The only way they can be removed from office is by a vote of the full House. Not even any concepts like ‘recall’ that you see in more serious democracies are available.
But, that’s an interesting idea. A member of the House could start a motion that would remove Ms. Pelosi from her seat in the Congress. The very legitimate reason for doing this is that she is in flagrant violation of her oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.
Of course, no Dem will do that. It would pretty much be a declaration of war, and it probably should be accompanied by said member also submitting their notice that they are no longer a Dem. And ALL the congressional Dems place their continued membership in the Dem party as being more important than anything else … principles, law, defending the Constitution. All of that is less important than staying a member of the club.
The only possible way to force an impeachment of Bush would be to clearly and loudly support an independent or third party challenger to EVERY Dem that refuses to push the issue.
That would send a clear message that if they don’t support impeachment, this could be their last term as a congresscritter. We might or might not be able to have the pro-impeachment candidate win in the next election. But in a lot of cases, the fact that a big part of the Dem base was leaving for another candidate would ensure the defeat of the traitor-Dems. That’s the only club to wield that might possibly cause the corporate Dems to change their policy of protecting Bush and Cheney. Let them know that if they continue to do so, it means the end of their own political careers.
VAUDREE, if they haven’t trashed it, and only painted it over, we sure are living in a land where ‘OUR’ Constitution, the supreme law of the land, is being ignored by Congress. They have a sworn duty to impeach Bush and Cheney and they are in violation of the SUPREME law of our land for not doing their SWORN duty.
As Bush stated one fine day, “Don’t tell me about the Constitution, it’s just a G-damn piece of paper.” You know, Bush is not always wrong, he proved that statement is correct and we allow it to continue. ___ Shame on our ‘elected’ Congress and on us.
Conyer’s convictions are not ‘lost’. They have been sold off and are now gone. Selling off those convictions was the price he paid to be the committee chair. If he hadn’t been willing to sell them off, Pelosi would have made sure someone else was the chair of the committee.
That’s the Dems for you, always willing to sell off any beliefs or convictions to obtain personal power or position.
Pelosi knows the game. She made the same deal. She had to sell off her previous kinda-sorta progressive past in order to get her job. Its the price of admittance into the top levels of the Dem party that make all the decisions. Anyone who’s not willing to sell off what they believe in won’t be admitted.
No room mate for Cheney, isolation, with painted pictures of dead Iraqi babies on the ceiling of his 24 foot square windowless cage.
Impeachment!?! What good will that do? Can’t he be sent to Gitmo for a waterboarding session? Then let’s discuss impeachment!
Pelosi was interviewed last night on The News Hour by Gwen Ifil. What a loser woman is Pelosi! She made my stomach turn, and I had just had dinner.
I am glad that three more reps have signed on to HR 333, but it is not enough. I regularly call Conyers’ office each week to ask him to do his job since I am one of “We the People” for whom this country is about.
Imagine it, picture it, Believe
Can it be the sleeping giant that is America is awakening and he is not happy that someone has replaced his toilet paper with the US Constitution?
As for the politicians shouldn’t they all be Americans first, then whatever party they choose? And a few statesmen scattered amongst the pols would be refreshing as well. And for those who have done the crime is it not your turn to serve the time?
You’re either with us or against us may come back in a huantingly unexpected way…..looking to the day.
Let’s hope this bears fruit — Cheney’s butt out of office. And W’s butt to follow.
Wexler carried out a survey of constituents and the result was so overwhelming in favor of impeachment that he just cannot ignore it. Either Cheney is impeached or these people will lose their seats, simple as that. Pelosi is playing the political game of having somebody so obnoxious on the other side their life is easy, not only that the upcoming election will be a walk over while ever Cheney and Bush are their as a reminder of what the Repubs are.
Pelosi is not interested in the people, just a well paid job, her idea of a days work is walking about looking like a toothpaste model. Nothing will be achieved if she stays as speaker nor if Clinton gets back in the White house, they’re both celebrity seekers.
How many shares of Halliburton stock has Cheney secretly placed in Pelosi’s hidden account?
This is not just about money. This is about raw power. And the Dimms smell power in the water. But I think they may have miscalculated….
GO Cindy!!!
There’s only 12 months left in their terms?
Why the hell bother now you useless pieces of shit!
DON THE E. There are some things money can’t buy, and one of those is PRINCIPLE! The nation needs a spiritual enema… get this SHIT out of circulation!
EZEFLYER: I would love to see some creative lawyers, perhaps with now mutilated half-alive Iraqis as their clients, suing the COMPANY that put in Cheney’s fake heart whatever, to keep this low-life ticking so that he could inflict interminable misery on so many. Hey, Jack McCoy comes up with creative lines of accountability, why the hell not this one?
willybill, if you can prove that Cheney committed a crime. If Robert Picton and Conrad Black can go to jail without being impeached, what is stopping us from doing the same to Cheney.
Impeachment is an American concept. But it does seem that Clinton can be Impeached without either losing office or going to jail.
COMarc, seems that, if you feel that way, the first step would be to replace Pelosi with another Speaker. Let her return to being a backbencher in Congress and then, make sure she loses the nomination in her riding (ie voting district) so that she doesn’t face the electorate again. Not sure how much power a speaker has in the US - in Canada they can only vote to break a tie.
KEM PATRICK - Cheney operates under the principle that until a law is struck down as unconstitutional (which takes time) that he is free to act on it. Personally, I would not travel out of the country after leaving office if I was Cheney.
And there are worse things than solitary confinement and I doubt those pictures would have any effect on Cheney. I would like Cheney’s pacemaker to withstand the pressure of living on Death Row.
Putting Cheney in with Picton is a bit cruel since I’ve heard the very graphic details of his crimes. Even alluding to Cheney’s crimes got me deleted once. And Picton said he wanted to make it an even 50.
Actually, any jail time over 3 years would take a bit of the sting off of what Cheney did - though I would prefer much much more.
Jess, I would ask how many envelopes of cash Cheney took from Karlheinz Schreiber! Schreiber wants to avoid extradition to Germany for as long as possible so he is doing sort of slow motion strip tease - revealing just enough to keep us wanting more. Once he has nothing left to tell us, he’s going to Germany (and he knows it). I know that Schreiber was in the US at least once. Schreiber admits to knowing about the giving money to various government officials in order to get government contracts - and we already know that Cheney was into this also.
Becase DON, it is crucial that we do.
If we wish to ever gain back an ounce of credibility with the other citizens of this world, If we even hope to ever have a voice that will be taken seriously on in the most important issues concernig the future of humanity, ours and their childrens, such as the global warming issue, then we MUST prove to ALL of humanity, that the American citizens truly believe in just standards, fair laws and that we have a fair degree of decency and moral character.
Currently the only thing other nations feel abut us is fear and hatred. Fear of our atomic weapons and of a madman who would not hesitate to deploy them and hatred fo rwhat we are allowing. ___ We have lost our honor.
That is why we must continue to fight, to have our absolutly legal Constitution obeyed, and impeach the president and the vice president.
If we just wait for another admnistration to take office, and we do not make a ‘valid’ attempt to correct the incredible wrongs commited by this corrupt one, then any others who may take the helm, will never have any credibility. If we don’t demand that our well penned Constitution is a valid piece of paper, we do not desevre to call ourselves a leading nation, nor do we deserve to survive as one.
Yeah VAUDREE, that was just my opinion, we all have our opinions.
Has a Dick ever been impeached before? Oh yah, I forgot !
WOW. There is somebody home in the halls of Congress these days. Amazing!! And more power to them!!
I’ve been saying for 2 years now, that even if impeachment doesn’t work, at least bringing it to the table shows the world that we are not behind this administrations reckless actions.
The Senate didn’t confirm Bill’s impeachment. The process brought out the crimes and the truths however. That will occur if and when Cheney is impeached and you can bet some will end up in jail or perhaps on trial in a world court.
Support Cindy Sheehan.
Doing that puts pressure on Pelosi, who can be remembered in the history books as “Pelosi, the woman who saved America” or “headmistress of the Pe-lousiest Congress that ever was”. Polls lower than Bush’s!
Be sure to tell Pelosi that she could be President already, if she hadn’t wasted the last year waiting for the Republican party to split with its past, all due to self-enlightenment on their part. She’s wasting our time, her own time, her legacy and our future.
All I want for Christmas is a brand new President.
Don’t want no job or money that would help to pay my rent.
Don’t want new cars, nor to dance with stars, it is clear what I have meant.
If I catch the ear of ol’ Santa dear, bring a brand new President!
No rights reserved. Any rebroadcast or other use is strictly hibited.
You know, I think there is something especially repugnant about the dems’ weakness in pursuing impeachment. At least I can respect republicans for having a perspective on the world and fighting tooth and nail to make it happen. It’s a horrible vision, but they get high marks in my book for execution.
The dems on the other hand are clearly not up to the task, and even their rhetoric is shown to be hollow, worthless, pablum. Pelosi may as well be a republican because that’s how she behaves. And I used to respect Conyers, but he just laid down and died.
As mentioned earlier, it begs the question if Bush and pals have dirt on Pelosi and Conyers. Then again, maybe they were just bullied and threatened with extradition and waterboarding if they stepped out of line.
But I would never, in a million years, ever, ever vote for a democrat again. Period. I don’t care how much brow-beating goes on around here about the lesser of two evils. Evil is evil. I mean really, how many times do folks have to sit through the ‘good cop, bad cop’ routine before you figure it out. The party in power here is the corporate capitalist party; Rs and Ds are just different flavors of the same poison.
I hope … I hope … Oh how I really hope he gets impeached!!!!
KEM PATRICK, I have a sore throat so my fantasies about Cheney going to jail are apt to be a bit inappropriate because it makes me feel better about my sore throat.
I hope that Cheney is eventually brought down as much as you do.
It takes money to try to get an impeachment. Starr did not work for free! The reason Starr went after Clinton was to make it easier for the Republicans to beat the Democrats.
Going after Bush doesn’t make it easier for the Democrats to beat the Republicans - and right now all the money they can get their hands on is going to fund the war between Democratic candidates for President. I am not saying that this is OK, just the way it is.
Still say your best hope is Shreiber.
culicomorpha says: Evil is evil. I mean really, how many times do folks have to sit through the ‘good cop, bad cop’ routine before you figure it out.
Actually I watched Bon Cop Bad Cop once and figured that it didn’t live up to the hype.
Cheney is evil. Cheney is also quite clever and plays dirty. He is not an easy person to take down. There was a law in the United States making it illegal to do trade with Iran during the Clinton years. Cheney was CEO of Haliburton at the time and Haliburton did trade with Iran, but they could not pin it on Cheney. Being evil doesn’t prevent Cheney from covering his asterix.
The Unauthorized Biography of Dick Cheney - (Haliburton Years) - link to doc near top:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/dickcheney/halliburton.html
“They also argue, correctly, that the hearings are necessary if Congress is to restore its position in the Constitutionally-defined system of checks and balances.” –
Any sane person in this country with eyes to see knows that this great country is on the brink of changing into another (as was true previously) poor Latin American nation. Why? because the greed was too easy to pass up after 9/11 when the people were stunned, like a purse snatcher taking advantage of an opportunity. That is bad enough, except that it wasn’t just money that has been stolen. This just may be our last chance, for a very long time to come, to set right, and secure the Democratic state of our nation as it should be.
What kind of political parties do you have here anyway?
Real political parties have positions. For example: Party X is for the death penalty, presumably because someone else, Party Y is against it. If you like the death penalty vote for Party X, if not, vote for Party Y.
Here, you have Democrats, ostensibly a political party, with some supporting the Republican bills and others (hopelessly outnumbered) making symbolic but futile gestures to introduce legislation favored by a majority of the people.
Don’t you think they are just trying to do enough to retain the minimum public support they need to get reelected for the umpteenth time?
Wouldn’t it be simpler to vote for someone who has shown that they are serious about giving you what you want and who wants it as well?
And what’s with this “unelectable” nonsense? If you want electable, vote Republican. They are clearly electable.
How can a politician who advances the cause of a majority of the people be unelectable?
Vaudree..I don’t believe you can indict a sitting sitting United States executive…prez or Vp without impeachment.
It’s funny how this whole thing coincides with the Mitchell report on steroids in baseball. Mitchell has already said none of the findings should really amount to anything beyond just noting them for history’s sake, spreading the blame evenly to everyone involved in the game (which means no one takes the blame), and, of course, “moving forward.” No matter what the scandal in BushAmerica, the advice given from on high is, “Let’s move forward,” meaning “let’s do nothing about it.”
When Conyers made his exhaustive investigation and report a few years ago this month about the stolen election of 2000, fully incriminating the Republican Party, Bush, Cheney and all their corrupt legions, it went precisely nowhere. Just as this won’t go anywhere. “We haven’t got the votes” is trotted out by every spineless Dem any time impeachment has been brought up for 6 fucking years, and they’ll keep singing that boring refrain till the criminals are off in Dubai or Paraguay. Kucinich and Feingold are trivialized as the “conscience” of their party, which is like saying I admire Gandhi and MLK but I’m not going to do anything they teach. The important thing is always Moving Forward, and impeachment isn’t on the horizon.
jlocke123 wrote: “How can a politician who advances the cause of a majority of the people be unelectable?”
By opposing the corporations who pay for lobbyists, campaigns, and junkets to Hawaii.
Electable in this country means: not crucified by the media. See Howard Dean, Kucinich, Gravel, Nader, etc. for examples. What this means from a practical standpoint is that the media owners (you know, those 7 white rich guys) are the ones who pick the politicians.
This voting business is just an elaborate ritual to create the illusion of democracy for the masses. But as Huxley pointed out long ago, in the democratic nations all the old forms will remain, the courts, the elections, and so on, but it will be hollowed of substance, and all hope of reform will disappear. I think we’re there and have been there for many years. It’s just that realizing that your country is lost is a hard pill to swallow. I know it has been for me.
Willybill - different countries have different rules on that. In some countries you can’t charge a President or Prime Minister until they leave office and in others you can convict them but they don’t serve time until they leave office.
I’m Canadian - I am guessing.
Karlheinz Schreiber - tell me you don’t think he had any contact with Cheney:
http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/politicseconomy/karlheinz_schreiber_a_feature_1.html
jlocke123 says: How can a politician who advances the cause of a majority of the people be unelectable?
Good PR? My guess is that a fair share of money is being spent to promote the idea that certain politicians are not electable. The kind of politician this type of PR is usually levied against tends not to take a lot of money from big corporations.
It takes money to run for office and the candidate with the biggest warchest usually comes out on top.
Why isn’t there a law in the US which bans Union and Corporate donations to Political Parties? Because those who don’t mind being influenced have the advantage that way.
The NDP should be running things in Canada but the Liberals keep telling those who would otherwise support the NDP that if they don’t vote Liberal, the scary Conservatives will get in.
I wonder who is saying that about Kucinich and who they are saying the scary Dem Presidential candidate is!
BTW - Joan Jett admits that the Howard Dean’s tape was manipulated so that it would sound bad - the “screech” did not sound like that to begin with:
http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1720
Sorry folks, it ain’t gonna happen because the Senate just voted 90-3 to give Bush & CO. another $109 billion for the war with no strings attached.
claudius, I’m Canadian so I don’t know completely how things work in the States - but that’s just the Senate! Isn’t the Congress where the real stuff happens?
Also, even if the Senate is an important institution (don’t be surprised in the Canadian Senate is abolished in a few years) - are there not ways and means of convicting a person outside of Congress and the Senate?
All you need is money to pay the lawyers!
Ok, I am for abolishing the Senate. Get back to being serious for a moment. That sucks that they gave Bush a blank check like that. Are they even asking for a run down as to how it is all being spent!
vaudree,
Here, the Senate + House of representatives = Congress
And my understanding of the constitution is that no, there are no alternative methods, since the founders had a very specific end in mind when they wrote article II, section 4: “The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.”
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleii.html
I am seriously considering joining a tax resistance organization. I don’t have a problem with taxes in principle, but I care a lot about how my money is used. I’ve had it at this point. If Congress will not cut the purse strings, then the people must. Let them put us all in jail at $33K per person and see how long that lasts.
One way to pay less taxes — fully legal — is to simply earn less.
Another way to NOT pay taxes is to become a farmer. No profits, no taxes. It’s really simple. Ever hear of the farmer who won the lottery? Somebody asked him what he was going to do with all that money. His response was that he would keep on farming until the money ran out.
By the way, today the Senate passed the Farm Bill. No cut in subsidies to the gazzionaire big farms. That means that the farmer that won the lottery is going to run out of his winnings a whole lot faster. Not to mention all the small farmers in other countries that will be driven off the land.
This whole damn congress has to go! We need to start all over again. The good ones can try to get elected to the new government. The rest of ‘em can go to jail.
Impeach NOW!!! Go Cindy!!!
Impeachment?! Waterboard the bastard! Hang Jane!
claudius December 14th, 2007 7:27 pm…May they all burn in the hottest deepest fires of HELL. And if there is no hell, let’s make one and shovel in every last member..except the three that voted against giving Satan more money. FRIG THEM ALL.
VAUDREE. A perfect home remedy that is 100% effective to cure a sore throat. __ Unless you have a throat cancer or VD. ( This really does work. )
In a one quart Mason jar,___ half a cup of white vinegar___ a forth cup of peroxide___ a rounded tablespoon of salt___ a tablespoon of honey ___fill jar with very hot water and stir. Take a big swig and gargle for several seconds. __ repeat gargelling until jar is empty. Do this before bedtime and again in the morning. You will no longer have a sore throat.__ If you do, you are probably going to die from cancer or VD.
You may rince your mouth and eat a cookie or some chocolate after the treatment, or a peanut butter sandwich if you like. For a cough, drink a quart of prune juice in the morning. __ You will not cough all day, ___at least you’d better not, ___unless you’re seated on the throne.
Well, maybe we are the Great Satan. But anyway, most of the messages on this thread seem to assume that the United States is actually a democracy. The problem with not having a democracy is that you don’t have a democracy. Voicing your opinions on a discussion board does not constitute democracy. Sorry losers.
Dick
Is my Websters college edition obsolete too MIFTIN? ___Dang.
From Webster = a pretty fair reference. College edition.
DEMOCRACY: In part. ___ Democracy is a government by the people, either directly,___ or by elected representatives, ___ who rule by the ruled.
By that there definition, “We”, the peoples, is the ruled ___ and we is sposed to be the rulers.
Now after “our G-damn piece of paper’, was legally signed and then ‘rata-fide’, an old duffer named Thomas something or other, said somethng like this. ___ out loud.
“There, you have a Democracy, ___ if you can keep it.”
KEM PATRICK: using the honey (will print the rest). At the age where people start getting a bit of dysphagia so I don’t gargle so is it safe to drink? Just getting over a cold but every time I am exposed to airfreshioner my throat hurts. Son gets drenched with Axe and Tag during gym class, he changes his clothes when he gets home but still every morning, every time he comes home and every time I go down stairs to do the laundry. Figure it best if I stay away from prunes – the throne is upstairs and I don’t want to start the Throne Speech until I get there! I usually either use hot chocolate or honey with the green tea.
Culicomorpha, looked at your link:
UNITED STATES: No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President;
CANADA: The Prime Minister may be any Canadian Citizen of voting age (18 years). It is customary for the Prime Minister to also be a sitting member of the House of Commons, although two Prime Ministers have governed from the Senate: Sir John Joseph Caldwell Abbott and Sir Mackenzie Bowell. (Both men, in their roles as Government Leader in the Senate, succeeded Prime Ministers who died in office in the 1890s; Canadian convention has since evolved toward the appointment of an interim leader in such a scenario.) One Prime Minister, William Lyon Mackenzie King, having lost his own seat in a general election while his party retained a plurality in the House of Commons, briefly governed from the hallway, until he won a by-election a few weeks later.
UNITED STATES: Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:–”I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
CANADA: In Canada, you have to take an oath when you first become an MP, and again when you become a Cabinet Minister or Prime Minister. Thus, the Prime Minister names his first Cabinet the same day he gets sworn in. The oath is: “I, _________, do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear (declare) that I will truly and faithfully, and to the best of my skill and knowledge, execute the powers and trusts reposed in me as ………..”
UNITED STATES: The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states,
CANADA: The 1904 Militia Act granted the Governor General permission to use the title of Commander-in-Chief of the Canadian military, in the name of the sovereign.
UNITED STATES: He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States,
CANADA: the Prime Minister (and the PMO) essentially controls the appointments of the following positions: all members of the Cabinet; vacant seats on the Supreme Court of Canada; vacant seats in the Senate; all heads of Canadian Crown Corporations whom the prime minister may replace at any time; all executive positions such as the head of the Transportation Safety Board, the president of the Business Development Bank; all ambassadors to Foreign Countries; the Governor General of Canada; the 10 Lieutenant-Governors of the Canadian provinces, and the three Commissioners of the Canadian territories ; plus approximately 3,100 other government positions, the bulk of which the Prime Minister usually designates a member of his staff to appoint with his concurrence.
UNITED STATES: The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.
CANADA: A prime minister is required to resign only when an opposition party wins a majority of seats in the House. / In general, a majority government is in power three to five years before a new general election is called. A minority government typically calls a new general election at the first opportunity when it appears able to win a majority of seats. Otherwise, it is unusual for minority governments to last more than two years owing to their vulnerability to votes of non-confidence. For example, in 1979–1980, Joe Clark was prime minister in a minority Progressive Conservative government only six months before his government lost a motion of non-confidence and had to call another election. The new Liberal majority government took office in 1980 just nine months after the Clark government had taken office in 1979.
IMPEACH PELOSI!
If you can’t gargle, you are gonna die. We’re gonna miss ya VAUDREE, __ but not horribly.
Drink it slowly, but reduce the peroxide to a teaspoon full.
KEM PATRICK @ 2:54 PM
“What Consitution…”
We still have the Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights, so we get to pack heat, yeah? (;
Vaudree @ 3:24 PM
re; roommate choice for cheney?
We the People get to choose.
A Black Site in the country of our choosing in ISOLATION.
I want to thank Congressman Kucinich for starting and staying the program, consistant in your vote call, for listening to the citizens and for being an undeniably ethical human being.
Thanks Rep. Wexler and Judiciary…. Let me enjoy this for a day or two.
A lot of good discussion on the impeachment of Mr. Cheney, but Ithink we need to go back to the beginning, similar to the tack that Kai took in the first discussion item, except for the fact that the first thing that the V-P-elect did was to convene a secret committee to devise an energy policy that is still underwraps to any except a select few. After that it was as Kai said with reference to the 9/11 attacks, especially that of flight 77 and the attack on the Pentagon. The quotes he mentioned were as near to the exact words that took place in that bunker that fateful day as we are able to read or hear until they are part of testimony that is taken UNDER OATH by a Congressionally authorized full investigation of all aspects of the 9/11 events. A real serious investigation would make all of the other high crimes pale in comparison!
yeah!!! Hip Hip Hooray!!! Hope he joins the other convicts.
Cheney is Canadian; does US law apply?
Recall Pelosi! Can it be done? This dame is a disgrace. She is pathetic and a traitor to the Democratic Party. Few women have attained influential posts with our government, and if Pelosi is a good portrayal of what we may have in store with more women at the helm, then Hillary and other women will have an even harder load to tow. There are a lot of good Democratic women legislators who will be hurt by this idiotic fool who forgets who she is supposed to work for. Recall her or can we even impeach her as well?
Really, do you think Cheney cares about this? He will ignore anything that Congress does.
He has absolute power. There is NO WAY that he will have to ever answer for anything that he has done. Same for Rove, Bush, Reid, Pelosi, Rockefeller and the other fascists. America is over with. Without publicly funded campaigns, elimination of corporate lobbying and a lot smarter American public, America is through. Get out now before it really gets bad there!
Royce December 14th, 2007 12:40 pm
“Pelosi doesn’t get it. She’s saying, “It’s the election cycle, stupid!”, and she can’t hear us yelling back, “no, it’s the Constitution, stupid!””
If Pelosi thinks there is some kind of short term gain politically to be had by not impeaching Bush and Cheney she should look at the Congressional approval ratings which are deeper in the toilet than even Bush’s.
IT AIN’T WORKING SPEAKER!!
Lobo Gris
To the tune of Nat King Coles Don’t get around much anymore
Oh how I remember turning on the radio
And listening you roar
I guess your boss must of muzzled you
You don’t seem to get around much anymore
Your lies got us into one war
And now your trying for number two
All we can tell you
Mr. cheney is try to say something true
Oh Cheney, Oh Cheney, you’ve damaged the country
In so a many direction,
At least with the taxpayers
We get to pay for your socialized medecine
Your friends at Fox and Rush
And let’s not forget WSJ
Must be looking at their hole cards
It’s enough to make hope for your funeral.
Sorry about this, a rough draft. Add on or change
oh really? so we have the pleasure of seeing a small handful of politicians wait until the week before christmas to speak of impeachment. for how long, people, have these crimes been occurring? why not wait until next june to start the talk? after christmas there will be some other event/project that’s happened, talk of impeachment will go the way of the president’s caught-in-the-act bald-faced lie from ten days ago (remember that - the not-what-or-when-did-i-know-about iran report which most everyone’s already forgotten to speak about) and we’ll all be faced with the gleeful concept of a new presidential election, less than a year away, crammed down our throats as if nothing else really matters. if any of you think wexler, gutierrez and baldwin aren’t involved in backroom deals over this topic, you’re out of touch with reality. the whole thing is a farce. this thing will never gain momentum (oh how i hope to eat crow), hanging around only like an annoying itch. cheney is manipulating the whole world. he’s not even arguably the most vile creature on the planet, deserving only of a firing squad. pelosi is a perfect example of the spineless democrats who were voted into power to provide leadership out of and away from the abyss we are in. none of them can get off their corporate infested asses and stand on their feet, their lack of spine cannot and will not allow it.
while some of you are talking about sore throats and cookies and chocolate, the problem, of most historic and horrific proportions, remains. our forefathers provided us, the citizens, with the means to take this country in the proper, moral and ethical direction, yet many of us fail to grasp the concept. only when martial law is declared will some of us enjoy the freedom of the right to keep and bear arms.
again, if any of you think that cheney’s farewell song is 3 or 4 dollar a gallon gasoline, keep resting your head on your pillow. this is the same creature who gave us 9/11, years in the making, an amazing accomplishment. all done with box cutters, duct tape, plastic sheeting and yellow ribbons.
really, people, it’s about getting pissed off enough to do something about it.
don’t hold your breath. to me its still Dems = Bush-enablers.
I’ll believe otherwise only when I see it.
Undergoound Pirate December 15th, 2007 1:00 am
======
I concur. You took the words right out of my mouth.
Cheney’s A Fool (Original by Aretha Franklin)
Chain, chain, chain, chain, chain, chain
Chain, chain, chain, Cheney’s a fool
Seven long years I thought you were my man
But I found out I’m just a link in your chain
You got me where you want me
I ain’t nothing but your fool
You treated me mean oh you treated me cruel
Chain, chain, chain, Cheney’s a fool
Every chain has got a weak link
I might be weak child, but I’ll give you strength
You told me to leave you alone
My father said come on home
My doctor said take it easy
Whole bunch of lovin is much too strong
I’m added to your chain, chain, chain
Chain, chain, chain, chain,
Chain, Cheney’s a fool
One of these mornings the chain is gonna break
But up until then, yeah, America’s gonna take all It can take
Chain, chain, chain, chain, chain, chain
Chain, chain, chain, Cheney’s a fool
well said lino…
culicomorpha. vaudree. culicomorpha, vaudree.
I read the comment of someone saying we should remove Dick Cheney’s battery. IF anyone is a Farscape fan they might find an interesting connection to the Evil Scorpius who requires these cooling rods in his head to be changed when they overheat…
Ha ha ha !
KEM PATRICK - The only bad thing about Isolation is we don’t get to see our favourite torture Cheney fantasies. Cheney is the only person I can think of who deserves what Picton did to those women. Actually, you are right, torture is bad - it is just that Isolation seems too good for him - and 15 year old Omar Khadr got both. Actually, what we should do is get the most toxic blend of air pollution, mix in propanol, chlorine, Axe, Tag, and Benzene and force Cheney to breath it instead of air.
I just prefer to swallow from the roof of my mouth down the top of my throat rather than to let it go down through the bottom of my throat and when I gargle a bit tends to go down the bottom of my throat. It is no big deal but it either tends to go down the wrong way or get stuck half way down my throat and I have to cough it up before I reswallow it (which is normal and no big deal). If one’s throat is already irritated, you wish to avoid both of those things, though. I am not going to die - at least until I’ve had enough exposure to airfreshioner in personal care products and certain disinfectants to totally mess up my central nervous system and that is years away. OPMD (ie dysphagia) is completely harmless and part and parcel of being French Canadian - that’s all. Axe and Tag should be banned because they cause sore throat, phlegm, drowsiness, staggering, and loss of memory and comprehension skills - that, besides Cheney, is the real evil.
dreamertoo says: Cheney is Canadian; does US law apply?
You can’t blame him on us! As far as I know, Harper has not made Cheney an honourary Canadian citizen - yet. If he even thinks of doing so, I home that Nelson Mandela threatens to renounce his honourary Canadian citizenship in protest (that would make Harper back down really quick!)
Undergoound Pirate says There is NO WAY that he will have to ever answer for anything that he has done.
You have a point - Cheney is apt to meet his pacemaker before he has to answer for anything. Even if he can’t win, there is a possibility that Cheney can spend his fortune delaying judiciary judgment until after the final fatal heart-attack. Then again, that is Karlheinz Schreiber’s strategy and it won’t work because I think that he has more than two years of life left in him - and only two years of delay tactics left.
Undergoound Pirate says Without publicly funded campaigns, elimination of corporate lobbying and a lot smarter American public, America is through.
Besides Kucinich, who else among the Dems are in favour of this? And is there any law on the books saying that a person has to wait a certain length of time after leaving office before they can become a registered lobbiest or that it is illegal to be an unregistered lobbiest?
And even when they ban Union and Corporate Donations, you will have problems doing away with (or limiting) third party donations. Thus, instead of getting money from Haliburton and Exxon you will be getting money from “Oil for Humanity” or “Petroleum Dreams” funded by Haliburton and Exxon (the same group of companies can fun any number of organizations with names such as theses).
Lobo - you make Pelosi sound like Jim Walding (who brought down his own party by voting against a confidence motion - presumably because someone greased his palms). Who chose her as speaker?
malaparte and dreamertoo Not bad! Have you hear Eric Idle’s SPP song - enough said.
vaudree December 15th, 2007 12:15 pm
“Lobo - you make Pelosi sound like Jim Walding (who brought down his own party by voting against a confidence motion - presumably because someone greased his palms). Who chose her as speaker?”
The Speaker of the House is elected to the position by the members of the ruling party in the House.
Lobo Gris
Sounds as if you have a hiatial hernia Vaudree. Be careful when swollowing food, you could easily choke to death. Then we wouldn’t be able to read your awesome posts here.
One asked if we could impeach Pelosi. Indeed, any member of Congress may be impeached. Of course the bill would go to Congressman Conyers office, and he could file it in drawer 13, as he is doing now with the HR-333 bill to impeach Cheney.
Funny, with our system, how one Congress person can gain absolute power over the lives of every American and totally contradict OUR Constitution and get away with it. Now that is real power. ___ “Houston, ___ we have a problem.”
Lobo Gris, you answered my question. Considering that there are not all that many more Dems in the house than Repugs, Pelosi would have to have been acceptable to at least a few Republicans to gain her position as speaker. Thus, Pelosi would tend to be a bit to the right of many Dems and to the left of many Repugs.
Isn’t a Speaker like a referee in Congress? Your hatred of her makes her sound like she is shooting the puck into her own net or something.
I get the feeling that Pelosi speaks for Congress - if so, does she voice her own opinions or the majority opinion decided in Congress. That is what I am having trouble with. If Pelosi’s job is just to relate to the public what Congress has decided ununanimously, then she is just the messenger!
That said, a woman can be just as big as a jerk face as a man can (original word rymed with “glass bowl”) - that is equality. Then again, not all Kucinich’s out there are male.
Jim Walding was speaker at the time when the Premier used to appoint the Speaker and his Cabinet Ministers from the group of MLAs elected. Walding was pissed off to begin with because he wanted to be a Minister (like you Secretary of Defense etc) rather than just a speaker - and the rumours were that he was bought off. Now days, MLAs who wish to be Speaker put their name forward and are elected by the other MLAs.
Premier=Governor
MLA=a provincial version of an MP
MP=Congressperson
Mcpete, so what accounts for your waterboarding fantacy?
Paul Bramscher says: One way to pay less taxes — fully legal — is to simply earn less.
The problem is that the Bush administration is OK with that – and so is Wal-Mart!
No KEM, just Oculopharygeal Muscular Dystrophy - which is harmless.
I recommend bringing back tarring and feathering. Might give the genocidal maniac a heart attack and he could kick off fully tarred and feathered.
Don’t count your chicken before they’re hatched. I will believe it only when I see it actually happen. If it really starts to happen, AIPAC/Israel will come to his help by initiating an attack on Iran, and lo and behold, the US goes to war to protect its liability Israel. And the rest of the story, meaning, the impeachment flies off the table.
Cheney is the anti-Christ.
What’s the story with Pelosi’s adamant refusal to impeach Cheney and Bush? All I can think is that Pelosi knows something about this motley crew (republicans) that we don’t know, namely, that they are a dangerous breed capable of doing damage to this country unparalleled in our history except for perhaps during the civil war. Cheney is a criminal right up there with the “best” of them. He is doing something so foreign to what our nation is about that to look at it directly is a frightening thing. Do we let this monster continue unhindered until his term of office expires or do we impeach him and lay down the truth of the matter so that the real history of this ugly period of America is known for what it was by future Americans?
Lobo Gris, missed your last post. If Pelosi was only chosen by Democrats, that says something about the Dems in office now.
BTW - is there anything the President can’t veto?
moonraven - take that image you created of Cheney with the tar and feathers and do it to The Bird dance (I think you call it the Chicken Dance in the States):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TA2ykUDl65o
When I see something like Dick Cheney in a public toilet I plug my nose and turn the handle. I doubt that Congress will actually go after Bu$h the inferior’s regime in any meaningful way.
It is sad to be an American these days.
Robert Wexler, one of the three calling for hearings, is sponsoring a petition supporting hearings.
Go to:http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/
to join the call for hearings.
Over 41,000 people have signed in less than 24 hours!!
..no mention of cheney’s obvious ongoing involvement with halliburton.and the unpatriotic move to dubai.it is quite obvious,tricky dick has never missed a beat or lost a step,or a paycheck,all thru his vice-presidency.’cheney is the epitome of the ‘dirty bastard.’
It’s Dick Cheney, the Christmas Pooh,
He Loves greed, so piss on you
What will your parent’s see if you pull through
Is it what our weapons do!
Sometimes he’s nutty,
But at all times He’s phony,
Dough can be brown or brownish-green,
but if you eat rifle on Christmas Eve,
He might come to your your town.
He’s Dick Cheney the Christmas Pooh,
He Loves greed, so piss on you!
Keith Olberman was on Bill Moyers this week and he said that the number of “Plamegates” “Shredding videogates” politicising the judiciary office, contractos in Iraq stealing money and killing civilians etc etc. overall there are now 50 Scandals like that !!!! so there is no shortage in finding high crimes and misdemeanors.
Correct me if I am wrong everyoone an d all.
I understand any petitions signed on the net, are as worthless as used toilet paper. I also understand they give others a way of finding where one lives. For example, why do so many here use a code name? When you sign one of these E-mail petitions, you are in the computer log books for any, including The Cheney/Rove gang. __ Right, or wrong?
VALDREE, I do hope that you realize, I was teasing with you.
As unsatisfied as we are with our current regime our problem lies in government officials using powers that aren’t bestowed upon them, if we allow the senate to impeach on an emotional behalf and with little to no technically indite-able evidence we are opening a gateway into a power that can be abused for the rest of our empires longevity
I really don’t care HOW they bring him to justice, just as long as someone actually does it!
injustice is equally as blind as justice, every viewpoint is susceptible. Removing this jack ass from office isn’t going to bring responsibility to the average American citizen or reason to an otherwise lost empire
Can the media stay with this story long enough to get impeachment hearings underway? Or, will the next of the score or so of bush/cheney scandals push this off the radar again.
It will be forgotten by Monday.
Speaking of being forgotten by Monday. Mulroney was Prime Minister when Reagan and Papa Bush were Presidents. This is Mulroney’s testimony to the ethic committee (videos to your right) - in your opinion, was Lyin’ Brian Mulroney telling the truth?
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071212/mulroney_testifies_071213/20071213/
Things may have false stops and starts, but eventually the truth comes out. Remind yourself of that when you make your New Years resolutions which stories you are going to harp in the following year from the past years.
BTW - Wasn’t Cheney in Papa Bush’s cabinet?
BTW 2- Schreiber’s comment following Mulroney’s testimony was to compare the relationship between himself and Mulroney to that of Clinton and Lewinski (note that it was Mulroney who took the money).
It is too close to Christmas for me to be serious about anything. I presume that of the rest of you.
BTW - do the Americans have any tanks from Thyssen Industries? Does then name “Bear Head” ever come up association with Papa Bush or Reagan?
When you are elected to Congress the CIA implants a tiny explosive device next to your mitral valve that can be detonated at any time by remote control.
vaudree: With the real estate bubble, earning less might mean homelessness. But I was thinking of an article I read in Mother Earth News a month or two ago. Some young couple bought a rural home outright and live on like $6K / year, gardening a good percentage of their own food, etc. The article mentioned that they get some attention from the IRS — which can’t believe anyone can live on so small a figure.
Mother Earth News is usually aimed at that aging Boomer crowd with a half million or so in its pocket, so this was a refreshing article…
vaudree December 15th, 2007 2:57 pm
“Lobo Gris, missed your last post. If Pelosi was only chosen by Democrats, that says something about the Dems in office now.”
Yes indeed it does.
“BTW - is there anything the President can’t veto?”
Not much. He can’t veto an impeachment, his own or anyone else’s. On funding he can’t veto what isn’t sent to him. IE; If the Congress refused to send him a bill to fund the Iraq war there would be nothing to veto and the war would end with no funding. Of course that would take political courage that our Congress doesn’t have.
Lobo Gris
Every other week someone calls for “impeach Cheney hearings”. Save your breath people. Cheney and/or Bush won’t EVER be indicted, they’ll both retire, collect their FAT government pensions, and get free health care for the rest of their lives. All while the money rolls in from the middle east. One’s a deserter, one’s a draft-dodger. Quit mentioning these stories. NOTHING WILL BE DONE. I’ll read the impeachment story when they’re actually removed from office. IT’LL NEVER HAPPEN…..
“Cheney: “The orders still stand” as Flight 77 approaches the Pentagon with no action taken to defend it”
So then it was a plane that hit the Pentagon?
Paul Bramscher says: With the real estate bubble, earning less might mean homelessness.
We know that. Have you seen
U.S. Mortgage Meltdown
http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/politicseconomy/clevelands_housing_disaster.html
For those who say that it (Cheney paying for at least some of his crimes) will never happen Remember what happened to James Ford Seale. James Ford Seale killed to young men in 1964 and was sent to jail for the rest of his natural life this year. If we can get James Ford Seale, there is hope we can get Cheney.
And, as my Christmas present to you:
Jimmy Carter
Former U.S. presidents don’t usually take shots at the White House, but for Jimmy Carter, enough is enough. We find out why he’s speaking out against the Bush administration like never before.
http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/2007/12/120207_1.html
Of course Nancy Pelosi is leaning on John Conyers not to advance to impeachment hearings. We now know that she was compromised early on (2002) by being briefed on the torture being used and had no objections. This makes her culpable as well. She and other Democratic leaders do not want hearings because hearings could reveal their complicity in the crimes of the Bush administration and open the door for their impeachment as well.
MIK, well said. The media and our press are the foundatin of the Cheney/Bush house of cards. They are the most guilty.
Have you ever tried to build a house of cards?
No matter what you do, eventually they all topple over. Strange that the American press is not covering Karlheinz Schreiber. I have a feeling he could point you in the right direction for a conviction.
Evenually is not always soon enough.
Eventually is still better than never.
“The reign of witches will end someday soon” - Thomas Jefferson
Thomas is giving us witches a bad name here……and I don’t like it!
What culicomorpha said!
I will NEVER VOTE DEMOCRAT AGAIN!!! What a bunch of corporate whores!
Vote Third Party.
Do it now.
For impeachment proceedings to actually move beyond this one story would be shockingly refreshing.
I’ll add it to my letter to Santa.
nspire says: I am Old compared to a _ l e t t u c e
If you are going to compare yourself to lettuce, stay away from Shadow and Lil’ Sister - next to lawn grass, it is their favourite food!
Clemsy, here is his postal code:
SANTA CLAUS
NORTH POLE H0H 0H0
CANADA
Put a curse on em MA, ya got any chicken lips and lizard toenails for a potion?
Grrrr! Woof Woof! (Watch out, he bites) Dog-face Cheney should have been tried as a criminal long ago. Unfortunately there’s no opposition party, so he and the Chimp will get off with barely a slap on the wrist, if that much.
What is the relationship between Cheney and Thyssen industries?
I guess Impeachment is probably a lost cause.
But why isn’t there a class-action civil and/or criminal lawsuit brought against these bastards?
If we have a case, and I think we do, why wait for Congress to start prosecuting? Forget about it– find some good private prosecutors and go for it.
RE: IrishEddieOHara December 18th, 2007 11:35 am
Are you mad? When I see this monster’s face all I see is a mean, bitter, nasty, old man with an unquenchable lust for power & money. He has become the poster child for the word ugly, and you defile the memory of my grandfather who was upright, truthful, and handsome both inside his heart & mind and out.
My sympathies to you since it appears by your statement you sprang from a really butt ugly family, or maybe you just need to go see a new eye doctor. LOL, LOL, LOL…..
RE: KEM PATRICK December 17th, 2007 12:56 pm
“Put a curse on em MA, ya got any chicken lips and lizard toenails for a potion?”
KEM, my good friend, that potion only works with large portions of frog wee-wees & bat hooves in it. Tell “MA” I’ll send her a boatload if it will do some good LOL.