Most Americans have long ago now reached two conclusions about their government. First, that George W. Bush is an incompetent president with, additionally, a temperament ill-suited to the job. And second, that his grand project - the invasion of Iraq - was a major mistake.
Both these conclusions are absolutely incorrect. But only by omission. They are, in fact, quite accurate as far as they go - it's just that they don't go nearly far enough.
Bush is incompetent and Iraq is likely the greatest foreign policy blunder in two-plus centuries of American history. But to say that - and particularly to say that alone - does not truly do justice to either disaster, Bush or his war. The truth about this president and his motives for war are far, far uglier than the words 'incompetence' or 'mistake' imply.
But getting to that requires of American citizens several attributes which have been, shall we say, in something less than great abundance of late. It requires historical background, factual knowledge, a motivation to understand, and the wisdom that results from the combination of all of these. And it requires a substantial degree of courage to go where the facts lead.
Most Americans lack a large degree of each of these, let alone the requisite combination of all of them. As such, this much reviled president is perceived as 'merely' incompetent and error-prone. Would that he and his actions were actually so benign. It would be a much better world. In fact, they are far more deeply pernicious than Americans are willing to let themselves understand. One way to appreciate the extent of American 'ostriching' is by doing a bit of comparative analysis.
It is a curious and telling fact that Europeans figured out Bush far before his own constituents did. There are two reasons for that. One is that they were less frightened than we were. Not that they're necessarily braver than Americans in general, but they've had more experience of terrorism in the past, and we were just hit badly - they weren't. Americans were therefore a fearful people in 2002 and 2003, looking for leadership and reassurance. But looking, as it would turn out, in all the wrong places.
The other thing is that Europeans have a more mature politics than Americans do - let's just come right out and say it. You can see it in their attitudes toward sexuality, drugs and crime. You can see it in their wholesale rejection of nationalism and religion, humanity's worst mythologies and twin curses, wherever they arise. You can see it in their rejection of the juvenile selfishness that characterizes the American style of raw capitalism and obsessive consumption. And you can see it, especially, in their foreign policies and attitudes toward war. In large part because they so heavily and repeatedly paid the consequences of their own prior immaturity about war, their understanding and approach to it today are far more advanced than that of Americans.
It is not that Europeans are cowards or unreliable allies, as American neoconservatives love to paint them whenever the folks on the other side of the Pond get in the way of the raw exercise of American imperial power. They are neither. What they are, rather, is sober. They understand that war is sometimes a necessary resort, but that it must always be the very last resort, and only ever contemplated when the alternative is considerably more horrible (which is to say, given the horror of war, very rarely indeed). They know this all to well, because they spent centuries living it up close and personal. As someone once remarked, "Europeans know that anything could happen there, because everything has happened there". They have learned through the hard experiences of Flanders and Stalingrad and Normandy and Dresden and Dachau the stakes involved when the public is cavalier or even less than vigilant about holding back the dogs of war. Americans have some sense of this after the twin disasters of Vietnam and Iraq, but both of these were fought elsewhere. And, however ugly they were, by far and away the vast majority of the dying was done by brown people living on other shores. Not pleasant, to be sure, but not catastrophic at home. We have never experienced Berlin, 1945.
Europeans also have a greater sense of history than Americans do - and, sadly, they'd be hard-pressed not to, of course - which gives them a larger wisdom about power and human nature. They understand that the motivations for war by those who make it are not always quite, um, as advertised. National leaders do not usually call upon their people to risk life and limb to advance the glory, wealth and power of those same kings or prime ministers, largely because damn few would. Instead, wars must be packaged as necessary to the preserve the national honor, protect national security, or to bring the benefits of some political system or religion to other people. Well before Europeans managed to stop fighting each other they were gaining an understanding of this principle. Not for nothing has war long been referred to as the 'sport of kings' on the continent. And, as it turns out, people are generally not terribly interested in risking their lives, their health, their property, their families, their communities and their sanity so that a handful of elites can have a rollicking good time and maybe score some booty in the process.
Ironically, Americans have a rather similar database on which to draw. I'd be surprised if more than five or ten percent of Americans would agree with the proposition that any prior president ever lied the country into a foreign war (though perhaps the number would be higher in the present context than it was before 2003). Indeed, I'd be surprised if that many could even name the major foreign wars in the country's history. Those wars include the Mexican War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War and the present wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Of these nine, at least four - or nearly half - and possibly more involved known egregious lies on the part of the administrations conducting them. And what is revealed when such lies are peeled away is that there was absolutely nothing necessary about these wars whatsoever.
For example, the deceits that were used to justify the invasion of Mexico and the theft of about one-third of its territory were so great that at least one congressman was motivated to denounce President Polk for conducting "the sheerest deception" in lying to the Congress and the country about the war. Perhaps you've heard of this fellow before. Congressman Abraham Lincoln went on to bemoan the "fact that the United States Army, in marching to the Rio Grande, marched into a peaceful Mexican settlement, and frightened the inhabitants away from their homes and their growing crops". He further accused the president of fighting an unnecessary war and of violating the Constitution in doing so, though he nevertheless also voted to supply the Army during the war (why does that ring familiar?).
The Spanish-American War was likely another instance of trumped up war. After multiple investigations over the last century, it is still unclear whether the USS Maine sunk as a result of a mine or an accidental internal explosion, and that lack of clarity alone should have been enough to prevent the war. What is completely clear, however, is that appetent imperialists and yellow journalists were hungry for the war, so much so that they succeeded in bringing it about, including ugly extended fighting in the Philippines against the anti-colonialist guerillas whom the Americans were supposed to be there liberating. Indeed, so great was the manufactured pressure for war that President McKinley, who didn't want to fight it, was ultimately forced to do so.
Then there's Vietnam, the lies surrounding which could fill a library. Here, we have documentary evidence beyond question of these fabrications, supplied via the bravery of Daniel Ellsberg and his colleagues. They risked their freedom and very lives to prove the degree to which the government was lying to the American public and Congress about its involvement in Nam, its involvement in surrounding countries, and its knowledge that the war was hopeless even while it was saying just the opposite. Oh, and did I mention how it was the US government, not the evil communists, who walked out on a previously-negotiated international agreement to allow Vietnam to decide its own fate by ballots, not bullets, simply because it was clear that the American proxies would lose the vote? Or that the American government green-lighted the coup that resulted in the assassination of the President of South Vietnam, the country where we were fighting to preserve 'democracy'? Or the Gulf of Tonkin 'incident' - far weaker a casus belli than even the sinking of the Maine - that gave the pretext for the major escalation of the war? Hey, we're just warming up here. As McGeorge Bundy said, "Pleikus are streetcars". If you wait long enough, one will come along, and you can therefore use such an incident to justify your bombing escalation, your war, or whatever you want to do.
As for the Gulf War, it seems quite probable that Bush the Elder (good lord, how do people from this reprobate family keep becoming president?) had his ambassador, April Glaspie, give Saddam a go-ahead to invade Kuwait, especially given that Saddam produced a tape recording of the conversation which has her saying just that. Of course, the Bush folks just claimed that Saddam had doctored the tape, and there went that. We do know for sure that evidence presented to the public and Congress about Saddam's atrocities was bogus, even though the dictator had surely committed many such crimes in reality. But the big lie about the Gulf War was the unspoken assumption that the United States was continuing its role as the friend of peace, freedom and democracy, fighting Saddam's nasty aggressive dictatorship. In reality, we had helped create Saddam, we had been silent if not complicit when he was committing his worst atrocities, and after the war we stood by and watched as he annihilated his own people whom we'd set up like so many human bowling pins. Most importantly, though, when he had invaded a neighboring country one decade before he committed the unforgivable sin of attacking Kuwait, the US government had actually encouraged him in that effort, armed him, and supplied him with satellite and other intelligence data. That resulted in the Iraq-Iran War, one of the most brutal of the late-twentieth century. To go to war in 1990/91, therefore, out of moral indignation at the invasion of Kuwait, was a massive hypocritical lie.
Go figure, eh? Just as shocking is the fact that everything about the present war in Iraq has been a lie, as well. We know that Bush planned to invade for domestic (let alone personal psychological) purposes well before he was even president, let alone before 9/11. We know that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. We know that the administration knew that Saddam was no threat. We know that they lied repeatedly and egregiously about the evidence that he was. We know that they lie like flea-ridden dogs to this day when they continually claim to be supporting the troops, but still can't even get them sufficient armor. And on and on and on.
But absent a knowledge of this historical record, and absent sufficient courage to grapple with its implications, and absent the facts and costs of the current war in daily life, and absent a motivation to understand these things, Americans continue to vaguely disapprove of the war and the president who bequeathed it to us. That is well, proper and necessary, but hardly sufficient.
This was not a 'mistake' made by an 'incompetent' president. It was those things, to be sure, but leaving it at that would be like describing 9/11 in the history books as an airplane crash. This was a king sporting. This was a war trumped up with zero necessity. This was a war of power and profit. This was a war of immense deceits. This is a disastrous war of epic proportions.
My guess is that Americans simply can't go there, just as many can't possibly entertain the thought that 9/11 might have been done by their government, or at least perhaps allowed to happen. People can imagine that the war was a mistake, but not that they are such pathetic pawns of their own government that their lives and the lives of American military personnel are of zero consequence to political elites. Or that those daddy-figures upon whom they rely for their precarious sense of security could in fact be vicious predators readily able to betray, ruin and destroy their own public for purposes of financial or power enrichment.
This is just too much for the psyche to handle. This is something that happens in banana republics, or history books, right? - not in contemporary democratic America. And certainly not by those super-patriots of the Republican right, the ones who are so eternally vigilant about keeping us safe.
To truly understand the magnitude of what is at stake here, one has to resort to the greatest of violations of trust of which the human animal is capable, such as the molestations of daughters by their fathers, or of little boys by their priests, or the betrayal of comrades during wartime. Such sickening transgressions are often too heinous to even contemplate, frequently blowing the psychological circuits of anyone subjected to them.
Sometimes the choice is between denial or death.
And so it is that Americans continue through their day, oblivious - by self design - to the magnitude of the evil that has been visited upon them.
But, ironically, this is not remedy at all. Obliviousness to victimization by government is no excuse, especially in a democracy, and especially when other innocent people are much greater victims, to the tune of about a million in number.
To a very large extent, those who would ignore the crimes committed in their name - crimes they have the power to stop - become criminals themselves.
David Michael Green is a professor of political science at Hofstra University in New York. He is delighted to receive readers' reactions to his articles (dmg@regressiveantidote.net), but regrets that time constraints do not always allow him to respond. More of his work can be found at his website, www.regressiveantidote.net
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114 Comments so far
Show Allsorry,
It's Airliners.net (i misspelled it before.)
Oh,
And the above post is all only my opinion only.
pac
Interesting site. I hadn't seen that theory.
This appears to me to be a normal underside of a B757. There are two different bulges in the photographs. The top blurry one is exactly what I was alluding to: A huge trailing edge "canoe" (flap track faring) which, on rare occasion fall off and land in the trees. People have salvaged the fiberglass shape and made boats out of them (is what they told us in ground school: sounded iffy but was good for a laugh studying boring flight control trivia.) The underbelly shot below appears to me to be the normal appearance of the bulging air conditioning "pack" bay which cools, heats and pressurizes the aircraft. Airlines can order two or three and they are crammed in that space, but a round fuselage shape will not accommodate them so the fuselage bulges out on both sides at this fuselage "station," and at this profile "waterline." Further aft from that bulge is the unpressurized landing gear "bay." These are common Boeing features on nearly all of the family of Boeing Airliners. Go to Airlines.net and type United 757 in the search fields to see sharp photos of this plane. If you look at enough shots you may be able to discern that the fuselage is not a cylindrical shape, but rather a "leg-go"of different "fuselage sections and shapes" stuck together like PVC pipe.
Thank you for asking that. I feel good that I could finally be of help at Common Dreams. We all have areas of expertise that are valuable to our common progressive movement. We might as well spend our time prosecuting this administration on what they really did, (which I want) rather than barking up the wrong tree and making them look innocent.
And on the turn into the building (sorry for not being clear) : what I'm trying to say is: It WAS very amateurish at WTC. He barely straightened it out at the last second. A pro would have cancelled out the sideslip way before he did. I was just commenting/speculating about the apparent speed at penetration; that in my opinion he had to be going less than 350 kts since he very nearly missed the middle of the building in the last seconds. At greater than "barberpole" speeds (over redline) he could likely have not made the turn at all and would have only clipped the corner or lost control trying.
The funerals at United were very real. The flight crews were killed and never seen again.
Then there's the area of why ATC FUBARed (phucked up beyond all recognition) and didn't call for NORAD help earlier. Most senior career pilots avoid the "Northeast corridor" when biding for monthly assignments because it is so congested and screwed up. Better to go to Florida or the islands and let some new guy deal with it. It's been that way at least 15 years. Until there is a crash FAA has one lone controller doing three jobs while the other guy is on break and the third guy is having a nervous breakdown in the head. It is so common to have insane frequency congestion where you have to wait several minutes to get a word in edgewise. Frequently flights are forgotten about. Frequently flight crews forget to switch frequencies since the controller is overloaded and didn't tell them to switch until the flight can talk to his antenna, but not hear him. You hear everybody else talking but not the controller. When this happens (all the time, man) we "relay" info to a jet that is closer to the guy who fell off the scope: "Hey United 91, center has been trying to get ahold of you on 33.9 for about ten minutes," : (translation: you guys dicked up!; better quit telling war stories and call the next sector if you can figure out what it is at 650mph.)
It does not surprise me that a controller was reluctant not to get the flight crew in trouble for a mistake that maybe he or one of his co-workers made, because the system was so phucked-up that this happened every-time I went flying. It is normal, no matter what government turds tell you, to loose flights in a system still using 1960/70 scopes! We put up with it as professional airmen because if you complained, you made yourself a target and got extra special simulator checks by the sim gods and the FAA. I know from personal experience how that little "Catch-22" system works. It is a no-win situation for somebody in Aviation. You shut up and fly, and do the best you can: or else.
This government has failed the American people at all levels in the last seven years.
Great fleshing this thing out.
pac
TSA folks are like the pretty girls used for a magician's show, yeah boys look over here (not over there)
"Then your last comment about a pod. Do you have a link to the picture?" Yes, here the link for "pod" thing (cut-paste: (letsroll911.org/phpwebsite/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=view&ANN_id=14), and I'm not pasting it as a direct clickable link because the moderators hang-up my posts for more than 2 links). I checked on one debunker site, where they said: "Looking at the underbellies of 767-like jetliners, such as the 777 to the right, in a variety of different lighting conditions, reveals a simple explanation for the broken streak seen in the featured video frame of the South Tower plane: The plane was reflecting the sunlight off its fuselage in a specular reflection interrupted by the shape of the wing fairings(911review.com/errors/phantom/st_plane.html)." What does you eye tell us?
It's revealing the underlying complexity here, when you state: "You'd have to be dammed good to hit the building in a turn at high sub-mach numbers", making amateurs less likely.
You mention "One of these is the Colorado Springs Untidy Airlines B-737 crash. Out of a clear blue sky, on approach, NOTHING was left to investigate! I mean NOTHING," which I hadn't heard of before. So Pennsylvania crash may have been a real hijacking, OK.
PACPLYER
"But I flew the big iron for 20 years", thank you for keep us safe and getting us all there.
You mentioned both "overlord" I believe it was called?", and "give the order for an F-16". There the 3-star General's on-video testimony (to ex-Rep. Mckinney from Georgia) that NORAD was actually more ready because of the war games, as personnel were already at their stations. I've read that until 3 months prior to 911, the FAA had direct authority to call the Air Force to scramble jets to eyeball errant planes, and did so may times, with hardly any delays. But on 911, even after hijackings were known and building were hit, there still were no jets? Very hard to square all of these delays with the world's most sophisticated (~ multi-trillion likely) air defenses, able to track individual 2" bolts in orbit 200 miles above, but cannot find 4 airplanes?
You mentioned "I see them more as the bungling Watergate burglars of the Nixon Administration. But maybe I'm wrong", look at this link www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/21/5370/?jal_edit_comments#comment-..., where I mention that the 'shrub is acting much dumber than his otherwise obvious incompetence'.
We have the world class of lying teams - likely spending more on PYSOPS than several new stealth bombers - to best figure how many layers of partial truth, mis-direction, deception, and kentucky windage might be needed for covering up (and then turning that inside out and adding more).
Regardless of above, the most salient irrefutable "proof of evil" facts are (1) molten steel weeks later in basements of all 3 WTCs (when jet fuel cannot do that), and (2) "non-"demolition as fast as gravity free fall.
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
Hi PAC PLYER -- Thanks for the info on TWA crash, that I wasn't aware of.
Very sinister dealings, when the rules of evidence and protocols for scientific investigation are thwarted so severely to warp but fragments of truth ever coming forth.
The temp thing is quite different when in an open flame as WTC had, than when within a jet engine. Basic physics let's know that combustibility has to do with the fuel's available chemical energy, surface area (aerosol size), pressure, temperature, and others including stream speed.
The experts contend that the WTC never could have reached the melting temperature of the type of special steel's used, and the short duration of burn time even considering that the crash removed the protective sprayed on fire/heat insulation (rated at 2 hr intact). They (the debunkers) now claim that the sides of outer shell structure buckled outward, from heat, which supposedly allowed the floor to fall. This hardly explains why the floors above burst into minutely sized dust, during the "collapse" (demolition).
Instead of the 4 (that you mentioned), the internal building core had 43 massively cross-linked 3'x 3'beams, which should have skewered the collapsing floors like donuts on a stick - even if the pancaking theory had any basis in reality.
I had more links to paste (above) but the moderators made it real difficult, so I spit my post into 4 pieces, of which only teo survived in this thread.
More later, elsewhere.
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
So I say the demolition nuts are right. FEMA blew the building with pre-wired charges (to limit payout to adjacent buildings) just in case another (Repuke sponsored) King Kong was set loose in NYC.
my opinons only.
Great links, thanks nspire.
TWA was another of those where the NTSB was BANNED from participating in the Navy's initial salvage op under the direct prohibition of Louis Freeh the director of FBI. He initially took jurisdiction away from the National Transportation Safety Board experts for the first time in NTSB history. The pieces were jerked off the bottom helter skelter with no photographs taken, so we'll never know the sequence of pieces flying off or what caused the explosion. AW&ST covered this abortion in depth. As I said before on this site, I flew the 747-100 for four years and nobody ever had any big problems with the center number two tank fuel pump wiring since 1969. Sure pumps would fail, but they were simple centrifugal design and the flashpoint of the fuel was such that it took an open flame to ignite. Sometimes we had trouble getting the stuff to burn at startup. The ignitors were not hot enough to make it happen. I have read that witnesses in a boat have stated that they saw a streak extend toward the same area of TWA800 followed by a large explosion at the same place and time of climbout. I don't know if it's true.
This is why I distrust Democrats. Many of our losses of Liberty started with Louis Freeh, Clinton's appointee. Clinton is a Rhoad Scholar - Oxford, which is loosly tied to Skull and Bones. This freaking Bush/Clinton dynasty has gone on now for 27 years (as either pres or vice pres) not counting the years Sen Prescott Bush's company traded with you know who, during 1937-1951.
Steel, however, melts purely due to temperature. Nothing else. The low flash-point of Jet-A fuel does not mean that it cannot attain great temperatures once ignited. I commonly saw 875 degrees Celsius EGT on takeoff with the big iron. (That would be 1607 degrees F , and that was a nominal operating temperature for the big fan engines with a lot of air pumping through them to keep the alloy steel turbine blades from "creeping." (warping). Large quantities of jet fuel are quite capable of burning non-alloy steel columns. Again, I defer to a chemical/structural engineer, if he reads this, to tell us what temperatures those things happen at. The question was: was there enough fuel in that model aircraft to burn all the way through? I say Maybe; with a big BUT. BUT you know it wouldn't happen symmetrically with all four steel columns failing at the same time! You know one side would burn through first! And then: Timber! A one thousand foot tree is tipping over to one side. 20 buildings go down as this thing falls like a giant redwood across town.
just like in the movie GODZILLA!
pac
Note: the above are all just my opinions only.
You mentioned "I see them more as the bungling Watergate burglars of the Nixon Administration. But maybe I'm wrong", look at this link www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/21/5370/?jal_edit_comments#comment-..., where I mention that the 'shrub is acting much dumber than his otherwise obvious incompetence'.
We have the world class of lying teams - likely spending more on PYSOPS than several new stealth bombers - to best figure how many layers of partial truth, mis-direction, deception, and kentucky windage might be needed for covering up (and then turning that inside out and adding more).
Regardless of above, the most salient irrefutable "proof of evil" facts are (1) molten steel weeks later in basements of all 3 WTCs (when jet fuel cannot do that), and (2) "non-"demolition as fast as gravity free fall.
For more, follow (cut-paste) the 1st link (below) for a 10 min video here, and 2nd link for a 3 hr expansion on today's "old" FASCISM links, to see how bad that it really is:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D6fxyOtVeI __by Investigative reporter John Buchanan
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4382151310886411718&q=martial+law&pr=goog-sl
www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=pres...
Yes I get lost in the threads, and leave myself various bread-crumbs (saved file snippets, cross postings notes, annotated saved threads with trigger phrase of what I wrote, and bookmarks too).
For more, follow (cut-paste) the 1st link (below) for a 10 min video here, and 2nd link for a 3 hr expansion on today's "old" FASCISM links, to see how bad that it really is:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D6fxyOtVeI __by Investigative reporter John Buchanan
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4382151310886411718&q=martial+law&pr=goog-sl
www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=pres...
Yes I get lost in the threads, and leave myself various bread-crumbs (saved file snippets, cross postings notes, annotated saved threads with trigger phrase of what I wrote, and bookmarks too).
PACPLYR -- You've got your "wet friends", and I've questions for them … but I'm in no rush.
You mention how "Most people don't appreciate the fact that airline crashes are very political," yes we've seen that, with ~ $400 Million expense to dive for and reconstruct TWA 800 wreckage, and ~ 1/40 of the effort for 911's 4 airplanes (and 3 skyscrapers) down. BTW, do you buy the near empty fuel tank fume explosion explanation, or consider a missile the cause more likely?
Their help was Blackwater and/or other off-the-shelf spooks. Bush family is intimately connected to Nazi party back in 20s & 30s (google Prescott B.), and even staged a failed coup de ta against FDR in 1933 (follow Gen. Smedly Butler link who outed them to The McCormack-Dickstein Committee). Geo W "the shrub" Bush's grand father Prescott and his maternal great grandfather Geo Herbert Walker - were the organizing LEADERS of that fascist take over attempt.
Just an historical note here, but it is now fairly well-accepted that the USS Maine explosion in Havana harbor was the result of an accidental magazine explosion. It may have been "unclear" at the time, but historical analysis has since settled the question of the cause.
Dear pacplyr, There were multiple "anti-terrorist exercises" that day, one run by Cheney, such that NORAD was entirely out of place and unable to respond. Are you aware of Norman Minetta's filmed testimony? He was witness to Cheney being repeatedly asked by an aid about an aircraft that was approaching DC, that the craft was thirty miles out, twenty miles out, ten miles out, and so on, and finally, "do the orders still stand?", to which which Cheney replied, "of course they do, have you heard anything to the contrary?", and then the disaster at the Penagon occurred. Cheney has never been asked publicly what aircraft he was referring to. Inform yourselves, citizens.
LoL! Tony says I want to let the gov off the hook! Wow. Actually, they've committed so many crimes against humanity that no jury would ever let them do that.
But I hope it helped having me play the devil's advocate for you guys.
TonyVodvarka: Disclaimer: You guys could be right; there are references out there to operation "overlord" I believe it was called? (or something like that.) It was a Seattle based terrorism exercise run by Cheney in a bunker on the same day? Simulating air attack? Does anybody know what I'm talking about?
I just felt you were giving the "Mission Accomplished" "A-TEAM" way too much credit. To expect that they pulled this off without anybody in government not writing a book about it......really surprises me.
You guys are offering that Cheney and Bush are Darth Vader and the Evil Emperor. I see them more as the bungling Watergate burglars of the Nixon Administration. But maybe I'm wrong.
I can only conclude......
They must have had help.... either from CIA or the Pentagon. (Bush I was director of CIA under Nixon wasn't he? so he has clout/contacts there, while Cheney and Dumbsfield were in that admin too. I wonder where the hell Poppy Bush I was during 911? How about Rumsfield? Then another thing that seemed odd was all those congressmen on the front steps of the congress bravely staring at the sky singing patriotic songs..... With the WTC burning, I would have expected them to be running like rats.... Pretty rare sight to see that many of them even in town.... I used to watch CSPAN and nobody was ever in the chambers....
I dunno. We must be the dumbest people of all time since we can't land them in jail. We need something more concrete. We need an insider who wants to become an American hero for all time.
Are you out there?
go ahead and post. We'll cover for you.
nspire,
I have to hand it to you, you raise a lot of good issues. I'm not trying to shoot them down. I think all are worth asking and following up on. God Knows, this admin went out of it's way to prevent a 911 commission investigation. That in itself is evidence enough of a high probability they are accomplices in some fashion.
My thoughts: Everybody in the mid-east is named Mohummand something, so duplication of names is not hard to believe. Grainy photos? Guess who had to pay for security mandated by FAA back then? The squeak-when-they-walk airlines. They probably put in the cheapest, crappiest, slowest clicking camera they could buy. If you check FAA and GAO security audits, where a gov guy tries to board with a weapon these screening areas were failing by a whopping 87% in some cases. This is another thing we've been complaining about for twenty years. In fact the Air Line Pilots Association is the one that forced the reluctant government and the airlines to put in airline screening in the first place. They still won't screen most cargo! Even after 911! Now the TSA treats everyone like a prisoner, but the weapon audits are even worse.
Some things in life are done poorly. But they really go to chit when the gov takes them over!
Then your last comment about a pod. Do you have a link to the picture? Boeing "canoes" (flap track fairings) look exactly like ordinance hanging from the wing from the ground. They are (as I recall) triple slotted flaps: that is a lot of mechanism to put down 40 degrees of venetian-blind type flaps. The transmissions to drive those things down has to have enormous flap tracks so that the flap can overcome the 200 knot slipstream.
Again inspire, I'm not trying to shoot down your arguments: I already stated many times I feel 911 was allowed to happen intentionally to "Pearl Harbor" us into a war. But I flew the big iron for 20 years, 8 years as captain, so I know what I'm talking about in those specific areas. I did not fly the B757/767 but I have thousands of hours commuting in the jumpseat between the pilots of this model.
pac
(keep in mind: the best lie is the one hidden between two truths.)
Sorry nspire,
CIA guys were waterboarding me for that earlier post of mine..... Let me just dry off here.....
Then I got lost on other threads and forgot to check back on this one. Does that ever happen to you?
The Pentagon crash is quite a mystery to me and most of my colleagues. The best source of information for all of these events is Magraw Hill's Aviation Week and Space Technology. Usually, when there's an airliner accident excerpts of the voice recorder and the flight recorder (two different boxes) will be transcribed and printed in this journal. Errors in transcription are common. Omissions happen as well. But these chronicles are still the best thing we have to go on. Frequently people are interviewed in this journal who shouldn't be talking so freely. It is very revealing.
Most people don't appreciate the fact that airline crashes are very political. Governments, Manufacturers, Airlines, pilots and mechanics have nothing to gain by having one. Cover ups are common. That is human nature. Airline pilots are familiar with a number of mysterious accidents over the years in which nothing made sense. The Pentagon crash is one of those. This again, is where a structural engineer needs to comment because building resistance to impact is not only dependent upon the speed, angle, weight and fuel load of the aircraft, but also the quite possibly classified techniques used to form the KEVLAR laminates of the Pentagon building itself.
Look up Airdisasters.com/net, I think, and a whole library of info exists into accidents I was fairly familiar with. One of these is the Colorado Springs Untidy Airlines B-737 crash. Out of a clear blue sky, on approach, NOTHING was left to investigate! I mean NOTHING. The heat and speed of impact were so great, that nearly all metal was incinerated in a shallow crater; so the investigation languished for years without a cause. It always seems like, when this happens, the government starts leaning on these poor NTSB investigators to come up with a reason; so a band-aid can be installed, and the flying public will be assured that the political rats who intervened outside their area of expertise have actually accomplished something in their despicable political careers, and we can all go back to flying. When no cause can be determined, it seems like they always blame the rudder. And this is what happened industry wide, after a second B737 did the same thing in Pittsburgh.
None of these accidents would have happened if the gov hadn't cut flight crews down from three flight officers to two. You need a third guy to sit back and catch mistakes the other two don't see; and to provide safety from a raghead with a boxcutter. But the FAA wouldn't listen to us on this and now the whole country is a mess.
Anyway, back to our subject. The B757/B767 class of airliner is not that big a machine. We had a lot of arguments with management about whether or not it was even a widebody machine for pay purposes. First, let me say, there is little doubt in my mind that these were passenger aircraft. I can see the UAL livery paint-job on the AW&ST photos published after 911. The UAL paint scheme is the ugliest grey crap with no window delineation designed by the then CEO of UAL Steven Wolf (A corporate raider who ruined many airlines prior to UAL.) The Americann impact I didn't see.
Second: The WTC was huge. You could fly two B757's in formation and hit one side probably without overlapping the wings very much. I watched the impacts and on one, the terrorist barely got the sideslip out before impact. He almost overshot the turn. That is because he was probably doing 250-350kts, I don't know. 350 is about all that is controllable at low altitude and I'm sure he knew that from taking simulator training in Florida. You'd have to be dammed good to hit the building in a turn at high sub-mach numbers, but it could be done if you were coming in straight; this is why I suspect the speed was at most 350kts TAS. (true air speed.) ATC tapes would show for sure. There used to be a live ATC archive for the new york area; not sure if they have 911.
Flight 91 was another enigma. Todd Beamer probably did break through that flismy cockpit door (which you could kick a hole in with your foot; dislodging the pressurization blow out panel back then) but the hope that they could kill the hijackers and then control the aircraft leaning over these guys is remote at best. Even on autopilot, with all that thrashing around, odds are the 15 or so lbs required against the yoke between the pilots leggs to disengage the autopilot was experienced; leaving nobody to keep the wings level. You only have a few seconds to level the wings: once it goes past 30 degrees of bank - good luck. Without any training, it's pretty hopeless that a passenger could fly a swept wing jet. That only works in Hollywood.
However, after three impacts of airliners, do you think cowards like congress or cheney (the chickenhawk) would even hesitate to give the order for an F-16 to kill a bunch of us lowly citizens?
Again think football. He's going for the end zone! (white house.) Better to cheat and take a penalty, than let him get all the way open and score. F-16 Safety trip-up is a no-brainer for a reptile like dick cheney. 100 people dead? Bush would sleep like a baby.
Jakey
"I love my country and I consider anyone who doesn't to be my enemy."
That makes for a hell of a lot of enemies there dude. I neither love nor hate the usa, there are many times when I don't like your countrymen very much. I'm not about to take up arms against your country, indeed our countries have been allies for nearly 3/4ths of a century now. Does that mean that I am your enemy? How would you behave if you were to meet me one day?
"This professor is an idiot and no wonder we have young people graduating from college with anti-American ideals."
Criticism isn't anti-american, professor's are rarely idiots (at least about the subjects they study), GW Bush is the most dangerous of all anti-americans.
I don't dispute the notion that Europeans are more mature, better informed and less suggestible than Americans. But I think they would never elect a George Bush as Decider because their parliaments do the electing. Supposedly, Americans chose Bush because he was the type of person they would like to have a beer with. That wouldn't be enough to persuade most MP's.
DREAMER TOO -- Excellent points. You really nailed the downside issue of the associated pain (with unconditionally), that is all to often the cause for most having settled for "just" conditional love or trust, and likely so many divorces, suffering, and world wars …
Thinking about the choices we make, I found a quote that you've likely heard of before, as well as the fully text it came from:
"Somewhere deep down we know that in the final analysis we do decide things and that even our decisions to let someone else decide are really our decisions, however pusillanimous."
ATTRIBUTION: HARVEY G. COX, On Not Leaving It to the Snake, p. viii (1967).
Quoted as "Not to decide is to decide" in Peter's Quotations by Laurence J. Peter, p. 297 (1977).
This re-enforces what I believe to be one of the root causes of much of humankind's needless suffering, which could be avoided if we only gave our MINDS a recurring small mental push and intention in any truthful direction.
Historically, many successful spiritual practices and belief systems have made use of repetitive blessings, statements, sounds, images, or ideas - to channel the adhering disciple's thoughts.
The use of a disciplined practice, is what defines the solution to our woes, by making use of each of our 'power of intention' ability - that then guides the MIND along a laudable path - that is aimed at achieving one's goals (and dreams).
In contrast, it is through the lack of one deciding upon a course (no CHOICE of any 'redeeming' course of action, or thought), that throws the elements of chaotic targeting into play.
If there were an owner's manual for each of our MINDs, handed out while we're young and impressionable, I'm certain it would include a detailed account of what I call MIND AS SLAVE, which is far superior to operating with its opposite polarity known as MIND AS MASTER. Let me explain the importance of this, by accentuating the differences between these extremes. What is critical to understand is that most people (through their inaction, of not deciding) are easily made susceptible to errant ideas and especially targeted propaganda, whereas a refined pro-active approach can provide a remedy to this bizarre human vulnerability.
_1._ We ARE who we think and chose to perceive ourselves to be, recreating ourselves in every thought and action of BEING. I'm sure you've heard the joke about the 'the guy who stopped to think' and 'forgot to start up again'? Well let me say, that would be no normal dude, more likely a Sat Guru (saint).
_2._ Life happens at let us say (guess) 5% of what really is going on, on this plane of existence, while the other 95% is the intentional packaging, our interpretation, and attachments to past and future (possible) events. If we were to have even a small fraction of people practicing "Namaste", I believe that we'd recreate similar feelings to those found in sacred settings like a monastery.
_3._ What does it mean MIND AS SLAVE or TO DECIDE on a CHOICE (a target)?
I like the conceptualization that much of our minds are semi-automatic, but just as is true for our use and control of fire, our minds make much far better slaves than masters. When we feed the mental 'pig' as it were, which is always of thinking thinking …(and looking for more input) -- with God filled images and thoughts -- we co-create that reality. We are blessed with the MIND AS SLAVE, which lead directly to focused intention toward our stated goals or state of being.
_4._ What does it mean MIND AS MASTER or NOT TO DECIDE on a CHOICE (a target)?
This is the ugly flip side where one's life focus is liken to being driven without having first a conscious target to aim for. The innate functioning of the mind - without a purposeful target - will be to constantly seek a replacement for the missing target information. This is the origin of the all-to-common mental anguish, shock, churning of thoughts, and random turmoil of our minds. It is during these very impressionable moments, that humans are most susceptible to external suggestion, or exposure to errant targets that then drive one's live into chaotic directions.
_5._ Consider that the mind (w/o a target) has a 'pig mentality' that is hungry if not starving for input, and will then clamp down on and consume whatever thoughts, feelings, or senses that are filtering in and/or floating by (at that time). In today's hyper-saturated multimedia, there is always something popping into our attention. It is the filter (or provided target) of our INTENTION, coupled along with where (or what) we decide and chose to pay close ATTENTION to, that serves us best with MIND AS SLAVE functioning. When we loose this focus (or temporarily escape from a targeted intention mode) we risk much with the likely nearly unconscious and very messy re-conditioning - that is too prevalent in today's society - as well as vulnerability to degrading propaganda and marketing illusions.
This mental framework fits well along with the idea of intensifying each of our visualizations of the positive and good in all people, as well as in ourselves. We benefit most from the greatest love of all, as we create the space for us to love ourselves (as w/o that, there really is little if no compassion or foundation for being fully present in the external world).
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
Green was waaay too polite in his analysis of Americans. I've seen smarter dust motes.
Dear Jakie, I'm surprised that you don't know that jet fuel is essentially kerosene which has about the same burning temperature as a gas stove. I didn't exactly say that I "believe" that 9-11 is a government conspiracy, I say that the facts as I see them and the government's prior and subsequent actions force me to conclude that it is a likely possiblity and needs urgent discussion and a new investigation. And let me clear one other thing up, I wasn't a swabby, I was Army Airborne. Have a great day, fellow citizen.
nspire,
You have described well the person who chooses to live with the pain they associate with loving and being loved.
The 'sociopath', 'psychopath', or rose by any other name, chooses to be angry about the pain they associate loving and being loved; this anger leads them to act in ways that are destructive of love; this results in more pain associated with loving and being loved, and if they choose it, more anger; this anger builds over time and results in the symptoms we describe with these unappealing, though perhaps, convenient names.
ggpearl,
All people feel love; they react to that feeling, by choice, differently.
Tony,
Since you are not in a position to pursue the charges against the President, I suggest that you contact your Senator's and have them raise the issue. Undoubtedly, you believe everything that you see on the slanted press which we have in this country.
No, my frying pan does not melt down when I am using it, but there is a lot of difference in gas from a stove or electricity than from jet fuel. Jet fuel can melt down steel since the heat is so intense. I trust that you honestly believe that the Twin Tower's was the result of a conspiracy by our government and a President that had been in office for 8 months. I believe it was the result of a Muslim group who does not like the U.S. and our freedom. So, we have two different belief's here. Who is to say that you or I are right/wrong?
I love my country and I consider anyone who doesn't to be my enemy. This professor is an idiot and no wonder we have young people graduating from college with anti-American ideals.
Dreamertoo, you can rest assured that I am a Veteran of 10 years and I thought I was fighting to give you the right to freedom of speach; however, I am going to express my opinion, which is my right also.
Dear Jackie, We, as citizens who smell a rat, are not in a postition to provide "proof". That is for a legitimate government commission who can swear in witnesses. We can only read the news and wonder what the implications might be. When government commissions obviously totally fail their mission and are clearly only covering their asses, as with the 9-11 commission, citizens are left on their own to wonder what happened. You would like proof? Watch a clip of Trade Center building #7 crimp at the top and collapse into its footprint at the speed of gravity. How can any rational person conclude anything except that it was expertly demolished with explosives? Such an operation takes days. The 9-11 commission refused to even discuss this. What benign explanation can anyone possibly see in this? There is much, much more, but even this is enough. By the way, does your frying pan melt when you cook eggs? A hydrocarbom fire cannot melt steel, it only reaches half the temperature necessary. Yet pools of melted steel were found in the basements weeks after the tragedy.
I'm amazed that Jakie, who claims to be a vietnam veteran incapable of condemning a president who deserted during that war, agree that "American's should be ashamed of yourselves"
That being said, why the hell do others need the various tales that surround 9/11 to condemn Bush the inferior?
_ L O V E _ like _ T R U S T _
is likened to a two-way street, where those at each end have both the ability to give and receive.
The "optimum" or unconditional flow of LOVE from one to another (and reflected back, see Namaste), occurs when when all four of these elements are positive:
Person A has ability to give
Person A has ability to receive
Person B has ability to give
Person B has ability to receive
Lao Tsu said in the Tao Te Ching that "He who does not trust enough will not be trusted"
As DREAMER TOO clarifies, we have _ C H O I C E _ , and it's our intention (think possibilities) that sets the stage for what we can create in each moment.
When we resort to habitual patterns, formulated as crude tools to insulate us from possible negative feelings (fear, hurt, alone, shame), we can no longer be present in the moment nor respond with all of our power and spirit aligned and congruent to the truths we profess.
Vulnerability and openness are part of both LOVE and TRUST, as otherwise we block out (or attenuate) overtures inward toward us, as well as throttling back on the potential overtures that we project outward to others.
Of course the art of unconditionally giving, receiving, loving and trusting - do of themselves soften the armaments thrown up against them - so that some goodness leaks through, around, and under to the recipient (however indifferent or evil).
Beyond the rational existence that we appear to occupy, consider the possibility that LOVE and TRUST can be spiritually projected (non-causally) anywhere and to anybody (and for anytime too).
The depth and power of our unleashed spirit is fathomless,
while sustained and illuminated iridescently
in the LIGHT of the ONE.
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
Tony Vodvarka,
Congratulations, you were the first to respond to my comment. If you have all of the proof that you are describing in your previous comment's, why don't you take it to the Justice Department, but you had better have the proof. This country operate's on "You are innocent, until proven guilty", but if you can prove that our President had the Twin Tower's attacked, go for it; however, make sure you know what you are talking about.
Yes, I have heard of the USS Liberty, but you were in a different Navy from me. I dealt in explosives during 8 of the 10 years I served, known as the UDT. If you don't think that Aircraft Fuel explosion's could result in the metal melt-down and the concrete turning to powder, you are definitely wrong.
I will sign off and not read this garbage any further and you as American's should be ashamed of yourselves.
dreamertoo-
Love is an option for those of us capable of it, but what if there are people in this world who cannot feel it, have never experienced it? It is possible that many of the elite are not able.
It sure seems that many of the world's most controlling people can't feel for those of us ordinary folks. It is like Babs Bush said about the coffins and the dead-Why should she trouble her beautiful mind with such images...
I can love them, much like I would care about a wild animal who does what it does because it is an animal. But I do not think that these people have the choice.
Jackie- If you are really a vet and not a paid rabblerouser, thank you for thinking that you were fighting for my right to have free speech to be dissenting towards the trend in this government that would take away those rights. That is what this grand experiment called America was all about. If you truly value the Constitution, and you have been paying attention then you should be understanding where the angst comes from.
True patriots dissent against the actions of a corrupt government...they do not walk in lock step with them. My grandpa and father were both vets. My father has watched the destruction of the military and its replacement by corporate privitization. It started with several presidents ago, so this is not just about dems and repubs.
Most at this site have been able to step back and take a look at the machinary that operates behind the scenes. I do not understand how a vet who fought in Vietnam could condone the massive war profiteering that all of this was based upon.
Again, thank you for fighting in an unjust war. I know you did it out of your sense of duty.
Dear Jackie, If you're going to get upset, why do you read this column? Have a beer and watch Fox news. Amongst the things that you are wrong about above is other people's service. USS Cole? Ever heard of the USS Liberty? Have a good one.
The author of this article (David Michael Green) must be a Lefty Liberal writing for a Rag Paper. No where in the article did he refer to a single Democrat by name. JFK and LBJ were the people who started the Vietnam War and LBJ progressed the war for the benefit of his own wealth. Lady Bird Johnson owned the Construction Company who came to Vietnam to build runways for our aircraft to land.
The problems in the Middle East are due to Bill Clinton not responding to the attacks by the Jihadist who wanted to do us harm, i.e., USS Cole, many of our Embassy's, hijacked airliner's where a Navy Diver was killed, and it was time for a president who had some gonad's to step up and take the war to the Jihadists.
In my opinion, as a Vietnam Era Veteran (10 years), if you don't like this country, get the hell out of it!!!!!! I'll conclude by saying that more than likely none of the people who have commented on this article were ever a member of the military and should not cast stone's at our Commander and Chief.
Jake
"we have a spectrum that the individual can move along from one extreme to the other" (ggpearl)
called 'choice'
(choose love)
annemarie
I do not think there are shape shifters per se either...I do think it is a deeper, more simplistic description of people who are genetically predisposed or like many other social variables, we have a spectrum that the individual can move along from one extreme to the other...and some are more prone towards this reptillian behavior.
Thank you for hearing what I had to say.
and nspire
Thank you for your words as well.
Aho
#
lzcrmc December 9th, 2007 8:34 pm
a jimmy buffet fan can't be all bad …
See...now we're talking the same language. "can't be all bad". Cuz I feel the same way about you.
btw, Do you realize what a gem/treasure that statement of yours is? "Can't be all bad" that's a point I keep trying to make, all the time. We can't be all bad. See, cuz we are not all bad. Neither are we all good. But put it all together, and that's what we are. I really should shut up now, and just let other people's great song lyrics speak for me.
Peace, take care, sweet dreams y'all... :)
Go back and refer to the title of this article, substitute certain words, and voila, a truth will reveal itself to you. You might not like it though.
See, it's like this:
It is because People underestimate the depravity of which they themselves are capable of, themselves whom they actually hate.
That is "Why Americans Misunderestimate the Depravity of the President They Hate".
btw Lzcrms, feel free to keep calling "you people" nuts. It's really quite harmless. Thank you. Besides, who are you kidding? Could the "joke" be on you?
take care...
a jimmy buffet fan can't be all bad ...
lzcrmc December 9th, 2007 7:19 pm
You people are nuts
-------
Right you are Lzcrmc! :)
If we were not 'crazy' we would go insane. LOL
You people are nuts
ggpearl,
Thank you for that post about your mother. I know exactly what you're talking about, from countless personal experiences, research, and observation. It is definitely true that stuff about the "reptilian" aspect of our nature.
btw, regarding David Icke's book, I've read it, and I don't feel that what we're dealing with here are actual shape-shifting reptiles disguised as humans ---imo, anything's possible, even though I've never experienced anything like those literal or shape-shifting scenarios which Icke describes--- rather the way I see it is that it is we humans who each and all have the potential and capacity to behave in the most depraved, cold, psychopathic ways (reptilian), just as we can behave in the most loving, decent, and constructive ways (humane or divine).
And, though this stuff sounds like a wild tangent from the main topic (and in a sense, it is), it really is actually related to the main discussion.
In my experience, what most people won't or don't want to acknowledge is the whole truth of human psychology, because it makes them afraid or horrified to realize that no matter how good they are or want to be, they are in fact still quite capable of doing truly wicked things. Denial 101 is perhaps a good way to describe it.
Anyhow...
GG PEARL -- I agree, and this idea deserves more study.
I'm guessing most of those reptilian boys were bottle feed, and didn't have a mammalian mother anywhere close, during their formative years. The egg was kind of just dropped off in the nursery, to propagate the cold-(blue)-blooded family line, with little concern to bring its humanity into focus - quite the opposite was likely.
Warmth, family-tribal connection, altruism, and sincerity are seldom found in reptiles nor political wonks. Sociopaths are excellent leaders with their innate charisma and charm (built up from self defenses covering their unfathomable shame), but do suffer (and thereby make us suffer more) from the serious lack of compassion (or feeling) for anyone else. Reptile_in_Chief, oh cold-hearted fiend.
BTW, the brain stem is even earlier evolutionary-wise (than reptilian portion), and handles the most rudimentary of survival tasks: breathing and swallowing. The brain's layers expand outward toward greater humanity, building on top of the more primitive.
I send you blessings. I am sorry to read of the terrifying life of your mother, degenerating to a survival mechanism shell of a person that once was. And I can guess that while still retaining her physical form, that one could not help oneself from constantly bring forth recollections of her, and suffering with the contrast.
I also share your belief of the big picture somewhere, where the incongruent pieces finally appear to insightfully fit somehow together. Persevere!
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
Nspire-
A big YES back at ya. It should be OURSTORY. And for those who want to harp on the details of how the towers fell or whether or not I am wearing a tin foil hat doesn't matter, it distracts from the intial issue of TPTB allowed it to happen. The 'terrorists'-both Arab and Israeli operatives were being watched and followed, and were called off just prior to the attacks. The put options event, the politicians that were warned...the list goes on.
PNAC stated that the plan needed a "pearl harbor" to use...period. One need look no further for motive....
Is there a conspiracy, well, yes I think there is. Bill OReilly in his interview with McCain was quite open about it.We here at CD, and other websites, or "leftist" activists (left represents the heart btw) are a threat to the White Male Christian patriarchy. He used these very words...
Is this a dis toward any Christians here? Not intentionally, but I caution that any person who follows the organized religions that ultimately, the End Goal of any of the 3 biggies (Judaism, Islam, or Christianity) is in fact the domination of the entire world, the enslavement of non-believers and destruction of life as we have known it according to each of the main religions own writings. Each sect wants a return of the Sky God of War. This Sky god represents what the Gnostics deemed an insane, and brutal dictator. The Gnostics posed that Abraham was duped, and the structure that we exist under today is a result of that universal scam. The scam detracts from our search for our inner GOD, our own enlightenment.
Regardless of what others who choose a more peaceful reading of these works may opine, or believe, this takeover is what all 3 want and work for. And IMHO this mind set is a fact, we here talk about it, we are seeing it, and it is being actualized.
In my attempts to construct a story from the myriad pieces of pre/history, I have been looking at certain aspects that seem disparate, but are beginning to form a more solid pattern that is related to my earlier post. Many of you here may have heard the kind of funny ravings of a man called David Icke. He posits that there are Reptile Lords living among us who are waiting for the day in which they will again take over, or have taken over. On the surface it is easy to denounce these mentalities. How silly, we think. Superficially, yes. However, if we employ the use of Jungian symbology to this schema, we find that there may be some truth to his position.
My evidence is thus: a year before 9/11 my mother suffered a series of strokes. It reduced her to a barely functioning human. My father experieinced great hardship attempting to meet her desires and wants. When he discussed this with her neurologists, they explained to him that her brain had been reduced to its most simple form, that which we share with simple "reptilian" functioning. She has no clue that her wants and desires may hurt others, and this behaviour depleted finances, and our energy. All she knew is that SHE wanted and life became quite uncomfortable when what she wanted was not granted. She reduced our family to making her happy, at our own expense. She had become a sad and nasty Reptile Queen of our family, and my mother was no longer present.
I think that TPTB may in fact represent a slightly more functioning aspect of what I witnessed in my own mother. People who are genetically predisposed to this more reptillian brain, who through conquest and notions of divine rights/philospher king mentalities feel that what they want is more important than the health and sustainability of the collective us, our planet or our children.
Sociopaths, murderers, politicians (most), profits before people or the planet folks, evangelical leaders, fear addicts....pick them out...apply this model. You will be surprised at the result. I think they may lack that higher brain capability, there has been a stunted evolution that is passed down through their family trees. They have never grown beyond a very animalistic kill or be killed mentality.
Compassion and altruism are foreign concepts, they truly are not capable of this experience.
What does all of this mean...I dunno, but it isn't looking good. Like I said, history repeats itself. In earths history, there was a time when terrible lizards ruled. I certainly don't want to see a repeat of that disaster....and yes, this was a bit tongue in cheek. However, my attempts to see the Big Pattern are sincere.
Aho ya'all
DREAMER TOO -- Complete agreement (United Sociopaths & Assassins corp.).
I still have great difficulty with FEMA asking for volunteers to do the structural engineering and collapse investigation, that's just too cheesy for me yet to fully comprehend how superficial things are now days.
Dear dreamertoo, Judging by your nonsense response, you seem to know little about this subject and are afraid to give it any thought. Widespread self-censorship and denial are one of the hallmarks of a fascist society. Just impossible to think about, isn't it?
.. and, the buildings were not buildings, they were large vertical inflatables made to look like buildings and the people were not people, they were tiny paper cutouts; it all took place not in New York City but on a back lot in Hollywood ..
But regardless, the perpetrators were 'sociopathic' criminals and the appropriate response was a criminal investigation, by among others, an independent prosecutor; not a Congressional investigation and not a 'terror war' unless these were found to be warranted.
Dear nspire, Relative to the accounts of several eye witnesses at the Trade Towers that the aircraft had no windows, and given the fact that the aircraft, revealed by their flight manifests (which included none of the supposed terrorists), were filled to less than forty percent capacity on a day when all other trans-continental flights were over ninety percent full, some have suggested that these aircraft were the Air Forces Boeing 757s that have been converted to fuel tankers. These craft have their fuel load up front, and have room for passengers at the rear, FORTY PERCENT CAPACITY OF A REGULAR 757. There are windows at the rear, but the lack of windows on most of the length of the aircraft may have caught the eye of the witnesses.
Dear OMG, There were various electricity and security shutdowns and shuffling of occupancies in the WTC in the weeks pror to the disaster and after Jerry Siverstein took over the lease. The explosive-sniffing dogs were reportedly withdrawn. The maintenence staff noticed inexplicable white dust appearing throughout the building. There is much information out there, please go to You Tube or Google Video and inform yourself on this subject. The official account of the structural collapse is NOT plausable. The buildings started DISINTEGRATING in mid-air, falling at the speed of gravity, not possible in a pancake collapse, where each floor is slowed by the inertia of the one below. To fall at the speed of gravity, each floor has to be blown out under the above, thus offering no resistence to the one above. Anyway, the official account offers no explanation of the steel core which was the effective support for the buildings and could stand by themselves. If it were a pancake collapse, the floors would have simply slid down the steel like doughnuts on a pole leaving the steel core columns standing, but, no, the steel core disintegrated into the basements with everything else, cut into handy legnths to haul away. And the third building, #7, is simply ignored by the 9-11 Commission , they actually said that THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHY IT COLLAPSED, reasonable since it is clearly and obviously a classic demolition, beginning with a "crimp" in the penthouse. And finally, no "pancake" collapse can reduce a building's concrete to microcscopic powder and spread it all over Manhattan. Dear pacplyer, Your desire to let the government off the hook has a problem, the coincidence, along with the first three structural steel collapses in history, of a total failure of NORAD protection, unprecedented and incredible, especially since the general in charge that day was soon promoted to the highest position in the military hierarchy, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. There is much, much more than this, we are not discussing the other incredible events of the day. Inform yourselves folks, the only incredible conspiracy theory is the government's explanation for this false flag operation combined with profitable "urban renewal".
PACPLYER -- Thank you. I do appreciate your acceptance and analogy of the game aspects being played out with uncertainties, but there are many pieces of the puzzle that are yet to be resolved. Are you willing to look into the depths of evil present?
Consider the Pentagon, where all the (little) evidence available (repressed videos galore, from dozens of vantage points, all seized immediately) points toward an impact of a much smaller cruise missile, specifically the damaged wall and remains of the jet engine. So where did that plane go? If one plane is suspect, we need to look at the others.
The one in Pennsylvania left no wreckage or bodies, which has never happened before, thus one suspects that might also have been a bomb. Where did the people go?
The planes flying into WTC appeared to have no windows, hardly the case for commercial airplanes. The maintenance logs, showed one the destroyed WTC planes is still in service; it must have been too egregious of a sacrifice for the airline's profits to really toast it? How about releasing the actual paths the planes took, as that data is part of recorded radar tracking, but if they did, it would show the planes' people being unloaded at another airport so that they could substitute remotely piloted drones that could fly the final distance into WTC, etc.
How about the crappy low resolution videos of the so-called terrorists, which is much worse than now available on most cell phones. Doesn't it seem a trifle odd that our high security airports only use 1970's video technology, when spy satellites read license plates from space?
All of those dead terrorists, who just happened to have same named people still alive elsewhere? I can imagine kindergarten wanna be investigators doing a better job at tracing identities than our highest paid most experience ones at the CIA and FBI.
And then there's the photographic details on the undercarriage of one of the WTC planes showing an optically guided precision targeting module (pod), which is not standard on anything other than a pilot-less drone.
And when you follow the money, there's a $17,000 check supposedly for the attack of 911, that was cashed at a store owned by one of the gov't merc outfits (like blackwater).
Overall more holes than substance in these stories, none of which would stand up to a thorough investigation, so there was none done. What would Sherlock say about that?
Why did I feel the need to say this?
Because to me, the game was between the CIA and the American people, there were only phantom terrorist references to scare us and create the "new Pearl Harbor" scenario.
I find it more likely than not, that there were no terrorists at all, other than the home-brew types carrying a false flag blackops mission, and that they didn't die. I find your explanation lacking the final twist of the knife that the US gov't did everything, giving the administration the benefit of the doubt of total culpability. I submit that they deserve no such break, as witnessed by continued callous actions and indiscriminate death of innocents everywhere else.
I have stated elsewhere that the animosity created by purposely generating conflicting evidence of many possible scenarios, is part of the terror campaign against the American people (who do love murder mysteries and conspiracies). The divisiveness and further PSYOPS damage is part of the plan.
If they did 90% of the destruction, why stop there? Maybe because having the whole show be made-in-the-USA would be too hard to stomach, too evil?
Oh, what a wise group of people. I feel so fortunate to share such rarified company. If only the masses could appreciate the learned discourses of the elite, then they would make all the right choices and save the planet. Of course, that will never happen, so all we can do is find a comfortable armchair from which to watch the demise of civilization just as we predicted.
We are no more responsible for what this President has done then for what this author has written; but if we keep electing one and keep reading the other we'll get what they offer; the lives they imagine we deserve.
This post is about MURDER, so I want you to think carefully about MOTIVE.
It'll be unpopular, but I'm not buying into the Indian Guilt Game above. Yes it's true, my ancestors, who I never met, killed Indians for their land. But before Europeans showed up in American, that's exactly what indian tribes were doing to each other. The entire North and South American Continents were nothing but bloodshed, as one empire slaughtered another. Aztec hieroglyphs and other petraglyphs document the constant conquest of king against emperor. Governor against Chieftain. Native against Native.
Native Americans are not describing what the white man did to their culture. They are instead, describing what Homo Sapien Sapiens, does through genetic evolutionary aggression, with great predictability, to any creature who gets in his way. It is what we ARE as East Indians would tell you. Telmet Nosce.
When we all start acknowledging THAT TRUTH we will be that much closer to figuring out how to control the barbaric elite Captains of Industry and Politicians who destroy everything in their paths.
In that vein, none of us can be criminally culpable for crimes committed by the seed of predatory capitalism in our name. The readers here wouldn't be reading this now if they weren't searching for the truth or if they didn't suspect something was rotten with our leaders. But the general population of Americans are living in the NeoCON Matrix. (CON being the operative word here.) They are living in a state of ignorant denial.
And I second ggpearl's W0W and Sioux's posts. Class Act's post is chilling, revealing and believable. Up until now, I didn't see the rational behind a demolition and thought it a nutty theory. But as a commercial pilot for twenty years several things bothered me about the WTC attack. While I have no training in Civil Engineering, why would a building designed to withstand a much bigger aircraft (the Boeing 707) with a much greater fuel load cause building collapse twice in a row with a relatively small aircraft like the B757? And these were domestic flights, not fueled to the brim as you would expect with the older, less fuel efficient but longer range B707.
And why were symmetrical plumes of dust going off below the impact of the aircraft hours later right before collapse? The only thing I could come up with at the time was that the WTC is structured from deep within the building and this is where the levered trusses formed a stress point on the outside of the structure... but it looked exactly like the MGM grand in Las Vegas: a planned demolition.
The smoke theory makes sense. Black smoke is consistent with a recent hot aircraft crash enveloped in Jet-A or JP4 fuel. White smoke is what you would expect when the fuel is exhausted.
The desire to avoid the massacre at Kobe Japan makes sense. That is actually a noble thing to engineer into a teetering building.
The only thing missing is the Motive: and that is clearly evident with the threat of higher premiums if you don't conform to the FEMA Godzilla dictate. FEMA forced flood insurance on my old 1958 house in florida that I didn't want (and couldn't afford,) courtesy the phucking insurance company so I can see this happening in New York with the high liability WTC that had already been attacked before.
Now it all makes sense:
The Admin was not sure how the Attack would progress; they knew a pearl harbor was coming to get them into the war (so they ignored intel warnings,) but when it came, Bush was reading "My Pet Goat" and it fell on Cheney in the Bunker to give the order to blow the WTC since it was teetering anyway.
Rather than being a dastardly plot as many conspiracy theorists think, I believe now, that 911 was more like a football game. Bush/Cheney and the religious wackos wanted a war. They had a game plan (Pearl Harbor; ) but as in all crimes (like bankrobberies) nothing ever goes completely according to plan. No football coach really knows what the other team is going to try. They know they will be attacked, but whatever happens they will make things up as they go. They will modify their dastardly plot to get their objective of holy war in the middle east so as to keep Texas oil Prices Sky High.
The highest level of attainment for a "Bonesman" (a Yale Skull and Bones member; which both Bush and Kerry are) is WAR.
TEMET NOSCE (From Greek, from Latin) KNOW THYSELF.
Note: The above, as all my posts are, is just fiction for entertainment purposes only. Whew!
Those wars include the Mexican War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War and the present wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
People always forget about the war against the Native Americans, too, that have been going on since Jamestown and continue on to this day, in some form or another.
O-M-G
I have been disgusted and sickened by George W Bush since well before he stole the Presidency. Anyone who read Molly Ivins could not help but understand the sheer depravity of this man - exceed only by Cheney and his cohort of neocon whack jobs.
I have been enraged as he - with the assistance of the corporate media and the spineless Democrats - systematically destroys the Constitution and our Nation. I stand second to no one in my pure disgust for the man and his administration.
But you 9/11 conspiracy folks really scare me. Seriously, someone went into the WTC, completely undetected and set up demolition charges in advance? Do you have an dea how long it takes to do that to a gutted, deserted building? Where are all of the individual detonations on the video of the towers going down? Go talk to a structural engineer about how the towers collapsed. Absolutely, completely, plausible. If these covert geniuses did this, why did they use so many Saudis insteead of Iraqis and Iranians? How did the August PDB that Bush ignored ever get created? What was Ted Olson's wife doing on one of the planes? Get a grip!!
There are enough things to despise about this administation. Why undermine all the legitimate reasons with this crap?
Having
GG PEARL & NSPIRE: Thank you for addin