Paper Cranes Fly For Peace 62 Years After Hiroshima
Pupils continue bomb victim’s project
For the fourth-graders at the Joseph P. Tynan Elementary School, Japan is a faraway place, and World War II is something that happened before most of their grandparents were born. But the war has come home to them through the story of a young Japanese girl whose life was cut short by the effects of the atomic bomb dropped on her city 62 years ago.
For the past several weeks the 48 pupils have been making origami cranes, an expression of peace inspired by the novel “Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes,” by Eleanor Coerr. Yesterday, they loaded their 1,000 multicolored paper birds and haikus about peace into a blue painted box addressed to Hiroshima. They hope their collection will be displayed at the Children’s Peace Monument in that city.
“We were amazed and shocked to hear about the many lives that were lost at the time of the bombings” of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, said a letter that the class enclosed in the package. “We have never witnessed such devastation, and we hope and pray we never will.”
The novel is based on the story of Sadako Sasaki, who was 2 years old when the United States dropped an atomic bomb on the city of Hiroshima, just a mile from her home. Ten years later, she was diagnosed with leukemia as a result of her radiation exposure. While in the hospital, Sadako began folding paper cranes in hope that if she made 1,000, the gods would grant her wish to get better. She died on Oct. 25, 1955, having made more than 1,300 paper cranes.
“She couldn’t do anything but lie in bed and make paper cranes,” said Jenaya Hobson, 9.
The story has inspired dozens of books, several musicals, and films.
After her death, a memorial was erected in Hiroshima, dedicated to her and all the children who died as a result of the atomic bomb. The memorial, which features a statue of her holding a golden origami crane, was unveiled in 1958. Today, people around the world send origami cranes to Hiroshima as a symbol of peace.
“I think people are going to appreciate it,” said Alexandra Pizarro, 9. “I think they’ll like what we did for Sadako.”
“If we do something for them, they’ll like us,” said Katharine Doolin, 10. “We were at war with Japan, and this is something peaceful we can do for them.”
After reading the story of Sadako, the pupils wrote haiku about peace, helping each other come up with the words to fit the strict five-seven-five syllable structure. Then, they set about making paper cranes, even taking home sheets of paper to make cranes on weekends.
“We figured that added up to 20 cranes per person, including the teachers,” said Phyllis Simon, one of Tynan’s fourth-grade teachers. “It doesn’t sound like a lot, but - ”
The pupils like to rattle off the number of cranes they made, how long it took, and how many they messed up. They argue about the proper methods and give each other hints for making the best cranes possible.
“You have to crease the paper real good,” said Cheyanne Toney, 10. “At the beginning, I didn’t know how to do it; I used to get frustrated.”
Teachers at Tynan came up with the idea for the cranes, but even they were surprised at how the lesson resonated with their pupils.
“I didn’t think the children would feel that deeply about a story,” principal Carlene Schavis said, adding that some of the pupils cried when they got to the end of the book and found out that Sadako had died.
And yet, the wish for peace hits close to home for these pupils, most of whom live in South Boston and Dorchester.
“Some of them have had to leave their neighborhoods because of violence and shootings,” Schavis said.
The wish is evident in the haikus the pupils wrote after reading the book.
“No more guns in hands/no more wars in the giant world/peaceful down the street,” fourth grader Eric Gomez wrote.
Another, by James Mazzone reads, “Some people are nice/some people can be very bad/celebrate the good.”
The experience is one Simon hopes stays with her pupils long after they have left Tynan.
“There are certain things I remember from when I was in school that have followed me throughout life,” she said. “I want them to learn compassion and carry peace.”
© Copyright 2007 Globe Newspaper Company
I really do believe this is good. I applaud it and hope the good will continues.
I really do believe the students should be shown a video and hear a documentary of the USS Arizona Memorial also. Then have them read about the German Submarine U-234, which surrendered in May of 1945 and was found to be carrying enough enriched uranium to Japan, to build two atomic or dirty bombs.
Perhaps they could see the films and pictures taken at Nanking China also, the ones the Japanese military filmed after they raped that city and killed thousands of innocent people, including babies stuck up into the air on bayonetts.
Perhaps they could also see the films and learn of the gigantic Japanese submarines, which had a range of 37,000 miles and which were actually aircraft carriers that could each launch three bombers which had a range of over 2,100 miles at a speed of near 300 mph carrying a one ton bomb load. One of those subs was at sea, heading to bomb the Panama Canal when Japan surrendered. Tell those children about the Japanese nuclear facility they operated in North Korea, until their surrender, where they were producing atomic weapons before it was taken over by the Russians in August of 1945.
Americans are mostly unaware, of just how close Japan was to having the atomic bomb also. And they would have used them, just as we did, and President Truman and a mere handul of Americans were aware of all of that, in August of 1945. Therefore, Truman decided to authorrize using ours, in the hopes the war would end. Which indeed it did. Is it sad? Indeed it is. Did we start the war with Japan, ___ indeed we did not.
Kem Patrick:
I thought I was reading an article about teachers trying to get their students to think about peace and compassion for their fellow man… Then I was accosted by your bile-filled comment. Where did that come from?
On a positive note, after 3 years+ of reading Common Dreams, it was your comment that compelled me to register and post a comment of my own.
What on earth are you talking about YAAR?
I thought the lesson for the students was wonderful and would help to promote goodwill and so stated. I also believe it is both right and healthy, for students to learn much more about the Second World War, how it came about and why the Japanese suffered from the atomic bombs. To learn why Truman made the tragic yet necessary decision to use the atomic bombs should be common knowledge, and unfortunantly it is not. ___ It should be.
Apparently you disagree and that is your perfect right, but it is not necessary for you to condemn me for my honest opinions on the subject. I fail to see why any students learing other truths, would prevent them from learning to have compassion and work for peace when they become of age.
What is your problem, do you fear the truth and knowledge, or do you fear students learn it?
You see, we teach our students the horror of our using the atomic bombs, the tragedy it created in lives of very good and decent people. However, if those students never hear the flip side of the coin, they grow up with the belief, that our country was entirely wrong, and our President Truman was an evil person for using the terrible weapon. It is both right and necessary for all students to learn the entire story. ___ The Chinese people, the Koreans, and the citizens of the Phillipines know it.
KEM,
I had the same reaction as YAAR. I think he/she was a little shocked to read the article and quickly flow into your rant on “why the japanese suffered from the atomic bombs” as opposed to a comment related more directly with the article. It just seemed a little out of place. That being said, I’ve read those same statements on previous threads and I too wonder: Why is this not common knowledge? This government tends to defend its actions, even if lying is part of the defense, so why do you think this particular information has not been yelled from the mountaintops as the reason for the atomic bomb drops?
I read a similar story by Kathy Kelly, the children making the cranes were Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, right after the 2006 Israeli war of aggression.
I think it is uplifting for children to do what they can in the interest of peace, it is a viable alternative to thoughts of revenge and may open their minds.
Include the children, after all they are the truly innocent victims.
I was involved in this project in an elementary school in Michigan about 20 years ago. I am glad to see it is still going on, we must continue to gain peace int he world!
We had about 1000 students in the school at that time and each student and teacher made a crane. We had an assembly dealing with peace issues to put the cranes in the box we sent.
It was a wonderful day.
Hi Defiance, because until recently, the information of the uranium being shipped to Japan on U-234 was top secret. Oppenheimer inspected the cargo and was shocked, Germany had managed to produce more enriched uranium than we had by May of 1945 and that was not the first shipnmet that had been sent to Japan. It was North Korea actually. That’s why Russia demanded having North Korea after Japan surrendered. Stalin knew about the atomic facility Japan had there, Truman did not.
President Truman was advised of the seriousness of the shipmets and he alredy was aware of the giant sub aircraft carriers, only he dind’t know how big they actually were, our best intelligence was they only carried one aircraft, but large enough to bomb any city in the United States. It was far worse than that we discovered after the war ended. Generals Macarthur and Eisenhour never did know about that, only a handful of Americans were aware, It was kept more secret than the Manhatten Project until just a few years ago.
Truman didn’t know how far along the Japanese were to havng one or several atomic bombs being readied and we had not even tested one in May of 1945. In fact some now surmise, the uranium on that Germansub was taken to New Mexico and we used it in our bombs. We’ll likely never know. Anyway, Truman was faced with the decision of whether to use the bomb and hope to end the war before Japan could use theirs. He didn’t know, no one in America did. We never will know how far along they were, for Russia had the evidence and the Japanese nuclear facility.
Pearl Harbor, Hiroshiima, fascism………………………
the people are always the victims of the powerful. Those who died or were damaged at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were as innocent as any civilians bombed in war time.
COMMENT:
Fascinating how, after the fact, only the president knew and a handful of civilians and confidants knew what all the generals and admirals did not, not the general of the armies, not Truman’s own chief of staff, just a few of the in-crowd. Yeah, right, and I’ll put that bridge up for sale on e-bay real soon.
Truman’s bomb, Johnson’s Gulf, Dick I’m not a crook Nixon, Ronnie I didn’t know what they were doing in my basement Reagan, George No more taxes Bush, Bill I did not have sex with that woman Clinton, George Weapons of Mass Destruction Bush. All trust-worthy fellows. And everyone of them have their ardent defenders. And everyone of them continued the US slaughter of civilians in other lands precisely because there continue to be ardent defenders of the vile and violent. Even here in Common Dreams. Ah, the pity.
Quoted:
General Eisenhower condemned the nuclear bombings, General Curtis LeMay, publicly declared that the war would have been over in two weeks, and that the atomic bomb had nothing to do with bringing about surrender. President Truman’s friend and Chief of Staff, five star Admiral William D. Leahy was deeply angered: The “use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender. . . [I]n being the first to use it, we . . . adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages.”
-Published on Wednesday, August 3, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
Hiroshima After Sixty Years: The Debate Continues by Gar Alperovitz
Quoted:
“When Harry S. Truman announced the dropping of the atom bomb on Hiroshima in an Aug. 9 radio address…the first thing he said was that the atom bomb was used ‘against those who have starved and beaten American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare.’”
“Never mind that the 900,000 killed by American bombing of nearly all Japanese cities, from the Tokyo raid in March to the Nagasaki bombing in August, were almost all civilians. In the American memory, they were justifiably killed to shorten the war, to save American lives, not for the unworthy motive of revenge.”
-From Common Dreams: Published on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 by the Boston Globe
America’s Mortal Secret, by James Carroll:
Justified only “In the American memory” and in the minds of those of belligerent spirit who throughout history unto the present day, continue to justify violence under any premise, no matter how flawed, and thus continue humans unique habit of slaughtering one another.
The article here is about hope to end barbarity. Those who find reasons to justify American government barbarity in the past help barbarity to continue to be policy in the present. In Japan it was children like Sadako Sasaki, in Vietnam other young girls like Phan Thi Kim Phuc. In Iraq there have been more than a million like those two. The barbarity will never end as long as there are those who justify it.
Seems odd to find justification for barbarity in Common Dreams comments, when the whole idea is to find a better way: better common dreams.
” And a little child shall lead them.”
Isaiah 11:6
ADVOCATE, I see nothng strange about discussing this, based upon the reasons given in my first posts. Your comments are a prime example of why it should be taught in schools. You are misinformed as are many, especially students.
If you don’t believe what I quoted, just Google German Sub U-234 and you’ll learn the once top secret document is quite factual. Then Google Japanese submersible aircraft carriers. Prsident Truman and his Chief of staff, General Marshall, the Secretary of War Simpson, did know about it, as did a handful of others. It is not very difficult to belileve that such secrets were known to only a few.
For example: Vice President Truman didn’t know squat about the Manhatten Project until Roosevelt died. Generals Eisenhour, MacArthur and LeMay didn’t know about it either, until the first bomb was used. They NEVER knew about the cargos of enriched uranium that had been and was being shipped to Japan. All of those generals and especially Curtis LeMay were pissed at Truman, it was not the manner West Pointers and men like LeMay fought war. ___ It wasn’t ‘nobel’.
LeMay wanted to fire bomb all of the Japanese cities to the stone age and if the atomic bombs weren’t used, he damn sure would have and would have burned millions of Japanese civilians to death and they would never have surrendered. Hell, some prisoners of war on Iwo, hung themselves one night, taking turns with a single rope they had used for a belt.
LeMay gloried in the fiore bombings. LeMay didn’t give a shit about the flight crews ei durng the war either. That damn fool insisted on daylight bombing raids over Germany when there was no fighter cover for the bombers. He flat rejected the offer of having British Mosquito aircraft fly cover, which was one of the best fighters ever produced durng the war and was produced thru 1957. We lost more 8th Air Force airmen because of his deisions than all the rest of the casulties combined. LeMay was a damn madman who bullied his way and got his way, __ always.
LeMay and MacArthr also didn’t know Japan may have atomic bombs and if they used them on our invasion fleets, they would have killed more than a million of our troops and could have prevented any sucessful invasion landing on the Japanese home islands. That was what Truman had to ponder, did they or didn’t they ? He didn’t know and he kept what he did know a secret, one which stayed top secret for over 50 years.
If you are skeptical, Google those links and learn the truth which is seldom told. BTW one of those sub bombers is on display at the Smithsonian. It’s the only one left, it’s quite an impressive aircraft. It could have carried an atomic bomb to us. Truman insured it never did.
VJ Day plus 60
15 August, 1945 and the world went wild!
The insanity that had begun in 1939 was over.
Imperial Japan had surrendered, its one wish granted.
Few knew it had been trying to surrender for months,
Asking only to keep its Emperor, but no one would listen,
Except a small group who wondered why.
We had a lesson to teach, to Japan and the world at large.
On 16 July, 1945, in the American desert, Trinity was detonated.
Far more powerful than expected, the super weapon worked!
Horrified, many scientists said, “It must never be used.”
The war department said, “Just what we need.”
Intelligence said, “They’re trying to surrender.”
“Bomb an offshore deserted island,” the scientists said.
“Maybe it won’t go off,” the military said, “we’d look foolish.”
“Destroying a city without warning is barbaric,” said the diplomats.
“They really want to surrender,” said intelligence.
“We’ll call the city a military target,” said Truman,
“The Russians will get a big surprise.”
6 August 1945, an elderly gardener looked up from his spade
Admiring the silver plane flying far above.
His shadow remains etched in the concrete wall behind him.
Schoolchildren, housewives, tradesmen
Blown to rags of flesh or vaporized, the lucky ones.
Thousands of others doomed to slow death and disease.
“They keep asking for someone to take their surrender,” said intelligence,
“Can’t we at least talk to them?”
“They have to be taught a lesson and the world must see our power,”
“Besides, we have to test the second bomb,”said the military.
And so the wheels were set in motion for the second demonstration
Of Hell on earth.
9 August 1945, above the city of Kokura, the Gods of Chance roll the dice.
A hundred thousand or more go about their business,
Unsuspecting of the doom flying above the thick cloud cover.
In Nagasaki, the people enjoyed the sunshine as the cloud cover broke.
“Secondary target is clear,” and their world suddenly ended in fire and shock
And radiation sleeting through their bodies.
“Now let them surrender,” said the military, “The test is completed.”
Two cities vaporized, two hundred thousand dead,
Survivors to suffer, some for days, some for decades,
And the nuclear arms race begun.
“By golly, we sure showed them!”
“We’ll let them keep their Emperor.”
15 August, 1945 and the world went wild!
The end of the war and of war itself!
There was dancing in the streets and love in the parks,
The blackouts ended in the streets and the homes.
Japan and Germany licked their wounds and hoped to recover.
In Washington, and the Kremlin, midnight oil was burning.
15 August 2005, nations have risen and fallen;
War and genocide again ravage the world.
Treaties made by thoughtful men have been discarded
In the name of profit and greed; nuclear horror again hovers
Over a world exhausted by war, famine and disease.
Only the aging survivors remember the bloody lesson, taught so long ago.
Steve Osborn
15 August 2005
Gomenasai, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Gomenasai.
Steve Osborn, Nuclear Veteran
Operation Redwing, Bikini Atoll, 1956
Did as you suggested re Googling. Did not find anything to support your claim. Checked several places. The uranium oxide on board was not for bomb making. Stop with the misinformation or provide some links to legitimate sites, please.
Back to the real topic…Thank you to the teachers who are bringing the message of Peace as a better solution to world problems. Killing has never been an appropriate way to bring peace and reconciliation among peoples.
Suppose the Japanese had readied some atomic bombs, it is now known they had enough enriched uranium at thier site in North Korea to make several. They definently had the means to deliver them to our cities.
Now lets say for moral reasons, Truman would not allow the use of the two we had in August of 1945 and we instead continued on with the conventional war. LeMay says the Japanese would have surrendered in two weeks. The Japanese military said they would never surrender. That is so, until the final minutes, they attempted to stop their Emperor from broadcating the surrender.
So, we continue the fire bombings and prepare to invade the home islands of Japan, we even accomplish a landing. Of course Japan had 12 full combat divisions prepared to fight off an invasion, with another 12 in reserve. Have your ever been to Japan? I spent two years there. It would be like fightng a war in West By God Virginia. Then suddenly one fine day, out of the clear blue, three Japanese aircraft armed with atomic bombs, hit New York, Philadelphia and Boston. KA-BOOM! The following morning, San Francisco and Las Angles are destroyed. The third bomber targeting Seattle crashed on takeoff.
Had that occurred, would any be writing some of the things that are being written here now? ___ Fiction? ___ Check it out, Japan was much closer to having the atomic bomb than any except a very few ever realized, and you can bet your offspring, they would have used them, if they had the opportunity.
Now plese do not get the impression I like the thought of it or of war. I do not. I do know we were in a war and Truman had to make a decison based upon what he knew. I don’t relish the thought of war and I certainly would never have allowed fire bombing of cities. I would have used those two bombs on military targets, and or in the Bay outside of Tokyo, but then perhaps that wouldn’t have worked. We only know for certain, that after they were used, the fighting and killing stopped. As to Truman’s speech given after their use, what was appropriate wording? He couldn’t say, “we had to use them because they may have used atomic bombs on us”.
I’m not going to take umbridge with Trumans words. I take umbridge with those who say there was NO reason for thier use, for that is incorrect. As sad and horrible as it was, it was necessary to end the war QUICKLY. End it once and for all and indeed it saved millions of lives, likely several million. The Japanese would have fought till they were all dead.
Haven’t you ever seen, the films of the wemon and children jumping to their death off of the cliffs on Okinawa after the fighting had ceased? We begged thm to stop, nmany carried litle children and bavoies in their arms. Hunmdreds of them committed suscide. __ It was horrific. __ War is, yet we shoulD teach our children the ENTIRE truth of it, if we wish to have them never to want a war.
Sorry about the poor spelling, I failed to get it edited in time.
Kem, I looked up quite a few of those sites. There is some question as to whether the Uranium carried was enriched, though there is a possibility that it was transported for use in our own atomic project.
The Japanese carrier subs, I-400 series, carried three single engine torpedo bombers, to be assembled on deck and flown off. The intent was to bomb the Gatun Locks after being canceled from trying to bomb American West Coast cities with bubonic plague rats and other disease carriers.
The subs were big and had a long cruising radius, but I doubt that they could have flown those torpedo bombers to any city in the US.
I knew Nobuo Fujita, the first and only aviator to bomb the continental US. It was from a float plane that was carried on the I-25. It was assembled on deck, then he took off with a stick of incendiary bombs, to set the American forests ablaze. He was a very brave man. He flew his mission, dropped three bombs then headed back to look for his sub. Not finding her and running low on fuel, he decided to dive into a lighthouse. At the last moment, he spotted the recognition signal of the sub, landed and the plane was disassembled and put back in its “hanger.” They returned to Japan, where he was a flight instructor for the rest of the war. I-25 was sunk not too long afterwards.
Fujita spent the rest of his life working for peace and to help the families of Japanese war dead. A rather remarkable man. Google him. There are quite a few hits.
You are absolutely wrong LOVER OF PEACE.
I just re-checked it and it is there. I never mis-stated a single word. Google these words only. (German sub U-234) without the ( )s. ___ It is the first article on the screen. Or, read Robert K Wilcox’s book, Japan’s Secret War. He is a respected historian who wrote the same thngs I have, only much sooner an far better written.
So don’t brush it off with your cynical and uniformed comments and accuse me of writing trash. You are like those that cause the problems of young people not knowing the truth of most important subjects.
Hi IBERTAS. I sure wuold love to meet him, that was the first air attack on the United States, perhaps the only one, except for their high altitude balloon bombers.
The later aircraft were much more advanced than the one Mr. Fujita used. The Seiran Aichi M6A had a range of 700 miles and a top speed of 300 knots. They could not have bombed any city in the United States, but any near the coasts, perhaps up to Pittsburg. Of course they had ample targets within their range. There is one on display in Washington DC, the only one left.
The I-400 subs had an incredible range of 37,000 miles, they had a snorkel and could cruise continually at a depth of 300 feet. They were also very well armed for self defense and had 12 of their latest and very effective torpedoes. They could easily hit us on either coast. They were far more advanced than anything we or Germany had in submarine design. The sub was over 400 feet in length. One was at sea when Japan surrendered, on the way to bomb the Panama Canal.
We don’t know how close Japan was to having the atomic bomb, they certainly could have used a dirty bomb and created a great deal of terror. Truman didn’t know if they had one either, all he was certain of, was they may have had them. He had to attempt to end the war as quickly as possible. He could not take that chance and who could have blamed him. Truman never revealed his most worrysome reason for that awful decision.
Kem Patrick:
I actually googled your (admittedly crazy-sounding) stories and by God they checked out!
Here’s the link to wikipedia’s article on submarine aircraft carriers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_aircraft_carrier
So thanks for teaching me something new. But I might add that you seem to have received these facts in a greatly embellished form. For instance, the article makes clear that submarine aircraft carriers were not a Japanese innovation and had been tried (to no great effect) by various Axis and Allied navies. Also, any uranium that reached Japan could not just be slapped together into a bomb — such a scientific and industrial breakthrough would require an effort *roughly* the size of the Manhattan Project. And as for the amount of uranium shipped…From everything I’ve read, it seems that the Germans were never able to enrich the amount necessary for even one bomb.
With regard to your argument that students deserve to hear the entire truth, allow me to use my own middle school and high school experience.
I went to 4 different middle/high schools and I _never_ heard a teacher stray from your line of argument: that the 2 atomic bombs were “regrettable necessities”. Understandably, this is the unofficial “official” argument. It absolves us of responsibility not only for the two atomic bombings, but the ensuing decades of nuclear menace (MAD), and the presently escalating dangers of nuclear proliferation.
So I think the kids in this article are finally getting “the entire truth of it” as you say. They’re finally hearing the story of one innocent victim that got caught in the middle of that horrible nuclear attack.
Should they also hear about the minutiae of flying boat thingies? Sure (don’t get me wrong it’s an interesting detail)
But they can get a lot more out of the message of peace. It’s the one that’s gotten shortchanged all these years as some Americans would rather defend the actions of their leaders than to demand better of them.
It’s the “News You Can Use” in our world of nuclear proliferation. As opposed to the “Didja know??” factoids that seek to entertain — and distract.
Advocate:
You put it beautifully.
YARR, I don’t believe I ever stated that Japan was the first to build the submersible aircraft carriers. They did pretty well perfect them however and they certainly were a dangerous threat. You aren’t reading what I have posted here very well, are you tired?
Embellished form? I only repeated what I had learned for the intelligence now available. As far as the uranium goes, Japan had already managed to aquire a great deal of uranium from other sources than Germany. Germany had not been able to enrich their uranium, but why do you suppose they were shipping it to Japan? The only resonable conclusion is, Japan could enrich it.
No one except the Russians and the Japanese ever knew how far along they were to developing an atomic bomb. Their site was in North Korea and we never got to check it out. The Russians took over there before the Japanese had a chance to leave. So for you or I, or any to say they could not have had atomic bombs finished in 1945, is just supposition. I don’t believe they did, but that’s my GUESS. Truman didn’t have a clue if they were close to having one and he damn sure could not take a chance that they might have them.
Glad to know you were fairly taught, however many who blog here have a far different opinion on this issue. When I first blogged here, I stated I applauded the efforts of the teachers for what they were doing. Then I stated, I HOPE THEY WILL ALSO TEACH THEIR STUDENTS THE FOLLOWING. Perhaps they do that, perhaps they do not, ___ I hope they do. I also was fairly certain, that I would be starting a debate and that is what has transpired.
There are so many very decent and intelligent people who believe Truman was totally wrong, as you can see from some of the posts here. There were and are two sides to the coin and both have attributes. The use of any weapons of war is never good, no one ever wins a war, but sometmes it is necessary for one to defend themselves. Then war can result. This war we have started with Iraq is a criminal and unjust war. I am ashamed of our nation once again and never ever thought I would have to be after Vietnam. I’m proud of Harry Truman, he was a good and honest man. I am glad I was not wearing his shoes.
Those converstions Truman supposedly had and the words he supposedly spoke are not so. If they are, would the person who wrote them here, please give us the links of a credible source. Thank ou for replying YARR.
Hi Kem, I just Googled Nobuo Fujita and got about 149,000 hits. In the first page, there were some good stories, some right on, and some, as Mark Twain said, “Mainly they were true, with some stretchers.”
You cannot believe the amount of acrimony in Brookings when his visit was announced. I think it was either the American Legion or the VFW who said they would kill him when he stepped out of the car. The debate in Grange (in which I took part) was incredible. After a very heavy debate, they decided to stay neutral, which I thought was rather chicken.
I don’t think there were a dozen people in Brookings who appreciated what the gift of a Samurai’s sword represented. Nobuo was an hereditary Samurai.
We exchange gifts. My mother gave him a driftwood piece, which Mrs. Fujita said would be part of her Ikibana in her home. She gave Mom a beautiful silk scarf.
They were a wonderful family and an inspiration to everybody they met.
KEM PATRICK,
Give it up man..your appeals to revisionist history and concerns to demonize the Japanese only work to display your ignorance and insecurity..you miss the point of this article entirely.
Hi IBERTIAS, thank you for that wonderful post.
It reminded me of a time several years ago when I was drivng a tour bus. I had a young Japanese college student as a passenger, who was the last passenger on my coach. She was very pretty, tall and trim, very quiet and soft spoken. She was a violin student at a college near Princeton, New Jersey. It was near Christmas, and there was a light drifting snowfall, which had begun as we drove up to the hotel where her parents were meeting her. It was near ten pm. Her parent were standing there in the soft lighting, near some decrotative trees and large bolders. The light snow was just beginning to coat their clothng. I swear, it was like a Japanese garden scene.
Her father was very tall, handsome and had a kind expression, but not really smiling. He was wearng a dark blue overcoat with wide padded sholders. He looked to me like a Samurai warrior. Her tiny mother was also quite beautifl, her hair was gray with the falling snow, neatly done with a large bun at the back. The handsome couple silently stood there and waited for the coach to stop, yet it was as if they wished to leap aboard to take their daughter off. When I opened the door, the girl jumped off and ran to her parents and she and her mother hugged for a long time. Her father never moved, but he did smile. It was beautiful, with the light snow flakes drifting silently down around this special family.
I didn’t have a camera, but I can still see them and I’ll always have that picture, of a beautiful family of Japanese, our one time mortal enemies.
I did so want to get off and meet them. ___ I didn’t. I closed the door and as silently as possible I drove off. I did remember though, __ we are all the same and I will never forget that either.
RADICAL CONFUSION. You have selected the perfect alias.
I demonize no one. If there be demons, they are by their own doing. I did not mss the point, ___ you missed mine.
I only wish to express my opinions here, often backed by facts when I state facts. I have the hope, someone may learn something they were unaware of, as I often have learned from others here at Common Dreams. I learned nothing from you however. And I don’t care to.
KEM PATRICK: You are in la-la land if you believe that the Germans or the Japanese ever had the capacity to cross to the ocean to attack the continental U.S. I’m not suggesting that they might not have wanted to or that they didn’t have a few wild-assed schemes of how they could try something like that, but rather that they did not have the resources to mount such an attack. There was one plain and simple factor that prevented this and it is a plain and simple factor that continues to influence world affairs: OIL. They didn’t have much. We did. Period.
You seem to have an obsession with justifying the atomic bombings and other atrocities committed by the Allied forces in WWII. I find that troubling in one who taught history.
Be troubled to your heart’s delight CHICANERY.
I taught facts not opinions. Indeed the Japanese Navy and their Air force were beaten to a crisp. They did however still have a mighty ground force of near 25 divisions, prepared to defend their homeland. An invason there would have made “D” Day seem like a picnic, which indeed it was not. After what had occurred on Okinawa one can easily see we had a serious problem facing us.
The Japanese also had over 3,000 suicide bombers, fully prepared to desimate our landing fleet, many were the rocket propelled type which we had sadly discovered, were nearly impossible to shoot down before they hit our ships at Okinawa where the Japanese had tested their effectiveness. We lost more sailors durng that invasion than we did during the entire war.
We could have easily lost a million of our men before we even succeeded to have a beach head on their land. Your military assessment of the tactical situation is flawed to the max. Study the facts not read a book someone filled with pesonal opinions on the subject.
The three I-400 fully serviceable submarines they had were quite capable of launchng an air attack on our homeland, two were fully fueled when the war ended, with enough fuel to circle the globe one and a half times, the third, which was at sea with still enough fuel to circle it once. They also were capable of bombing us wth atomic weapons as far as President Truman, General Marshall, General Arnold and Oppenhimer were concerned, with ample justification to formulate that most serious opinion.
Your opinions appear to be based upon what you personally believe, based upon what? The information Truman had at the time was top secret and few were aware of the potential danger then or for over 50 years later. I’m fairly certain you were unaware of those facts until recently if at all. Perhaps you are a military strategist or a historian. If so, perhaps you should study a bit more on the subject before you offer your biased opinions, and instead guve us some facts to back up your comments. Thank you for your concern.
Finally, I am not obsessed with justifing anything about the war. I do wish to help show that Truman had both military and moral reasons for his decisions. He weighed the cost of lives of ending the war by usng the atomic bombs with a possible high figure of 200,000 dead or, several million deaths. He chose the the former and the war ended.
Apparently you would have preferred an invasion of Japan by our troops and the continued bombing of their cities? If so, you are quite foolish, and I find that troubling.
Kem Patrick:
You didn’t say that the Japanese invented aircraft carrier subs. My post must have been poorly worded. What I was trying to say was that these subs were around long before the Japanese built their own and they were not very practical and therefore they were abandoned.
In other words, they were not very threatening and certainly were no justification for the horrible deaths of 200,000 civilians.
Paragraph 3 of this article seems to indicate that Japanese subs (regardless of giganticity and awesomeness) were a poor joke even at the time:
http://www.counterpunch.org/lind02282007.html
There’s a reason why these “justifications” for the mass killing of civilians were not used at the time — or in the decades after.
Anyway, our basic disagreement remains. I think it’s great that kids are finally learning something about the effects of the atomic bombs on the civilian victims. And I think educators and parents should make every effort to get kids to understand the horrors of nuclear weapons.
It’s great, though, that we can disagree amicably.
I did give links and the name of a book written by a qualified and highly respected historian. Obviously you did not read all of my posts JOED.
Take your childish name calling and shove it up your ass. History is history and cannot be changed, except by lies ignorance and deciet. If you wish to believe the lies and deciet knock yourself out. It is a shame the facts are seldom taught in our schools, instead our students are often taught by individuals like you, that the Japanese were brutalized by us horrible Americans.
YARR, sorry you are absolutly wrong. Those Japanese I-400 subs were state of the art at that time in history.
Evidently you failed to read the report fully or did not find a good link on the subject. Perhaps you failed to understand what was well written. How can you deny it, is to me a person who is so intent on proving they are right, they would be the type to deny the Earth is round.
One I-400 was half way across the Pacific headng to bomb the Panama Canal when the war ended. Our military personnel who studied them after the war ended were amazed with their furtureistic design and overall capabilities. There are written statement to that truth by the officers who sailed one to Hawaii. Read their report by Googling Japanese submersible aircraft carriers. There are several articles there to read, not just one.
One earlier version had alredy tested the feasibilty of attacking the United States with aircraft and they succeeded in doing so. The Japanese were working on the Atomic bomb, long before the Manhatten Project began. The I-400 subs were bult specifically to deliver atomic bombs when they had them readied. That’s history and it is undeniable.
BTW YARR, what on earth does that link you provided, have to do with the subjects of the Japanese I-400 class subs or their nuclear plant in Korea? Where BTW, the Russians finished what the Japanese scientists had started and ended up with far more powerful atomic bombs than we had developed by 1949.
Again, our students should hear the entire story and I do not find that to be unreasonable in any manner.
I will post one final blog here for you YARR and for the delightful JOED and any others who are mis-informed or uninformed of the true facts.
If one wishes to learn the truth, instead of having and clinging to pre-conceived notions and opinions on the subject, here are a few words which come from The Paines Journal, which is in the Library of Congress and is a part of the special collection of the Nimitz Library. Paine was a very distinguished author and historian. It is availabe by Googling Japanese submersible aircraft carriers and then clicking onto the article titled, THE TRANSPACIFIC VOYAGE OF H.I.J.M.S. I-400.
Paine stated: “In many ways, the Japanese I-400 submarines were DECADES AHEAD OF THEIR TIME. The advent of atomic bombs transformed her to a menancing STRATEGIC threat”. Ya got that CHICANERY, JOED? Do you need any other references? Well, if so look em up if you wish to learn, if not __ shut up, you are harming others with your invalid, opinionated and rude comments.
In 1945 Truman was fully aware of these FACTS.
1. ___ Japan had the I-400 class of super submarnes which had speeds double that of ours and had a un-refueled range of 37,000 miles. They had the capability of bombing our major cities.
2. ___ Truman knew that Japan was workig on developing atomic bombs. He did NOT know, how far they were to having any ready then, or in the near future.
3. ___ Truman knew the Japanese were not about to surrender, regardless of feelers some of their diplomats had been putting out to Russia, Switzerland and others.
What would any sane and sensible president have done under those circumstance, knowing what he did know for certain and not knowing what was impossible for him to know? Did Truman wish to gamble and have our troops invade Japan and very likely have many millions of deaths? Or, should he gamble that the use of nuclear bombs would end the war? He chose the latter and he was correct. The war ended and the killing stopped.
End of my rants as you may call them. BTW, f##ck you JOED. Hope to meet up with you someday, but know that is not likely. ___ Bye,__ The Skunk.
I love how this article has turned into an excuse for discussing whether the bombings were justified and who had access to what and what they planned to do with it…as opposed to maybe possibly applauding people from both countries for attempting to connect to each other and hopefully avoid such violence in the future.
It’s my fault OREGONION, I saw where the students were being rightfully taught, that even after a terrible war and the use of the atomic bombs, the prior enemies could become as brothers and sisters.
I hoped that our students would someday also be taught, why the decision to use the atomic bombs was ever considered in the first place. As any can see, there are wildly opposing views and opinions on the subject and the truth of many things has never been taught in our schools. I wished that our students from fifth grade thru college, were aware of things that hardly anyone ever knew. ___Sorry I even posted.
oregonian37:
Thanks for the reminder, and I’m sorry if I contributed to the drift to la-la land.
I was struck by the rancor that greeted this article and that’s why I posted.
Getting back to the point of the article:
This is such an easy way to get children involved and thinking about world affairs in a very human and very accessible way. A friend of mine has been sharing the story of Sadako Sasaki with her middle school students for some years now and encouraging them to make the origami cranes that are then sent to the memorial in Japan. There apparently aren’t any prepackaged educational materials and so every teacher is on their own when they try to figure out how to weave this touching story into their lesson plans (you know, like all the stuff that would be available if you wanted to work Brand X Food-Product into your lesson plan).
If anyone is aware of any such materials, please share.
Thank you.
Well one good thing did happen. We have a new poster for Common Dreams. Welcome YAAR.
KEM PATRICK:
My assessment was neither a tactical one, nor a military one. It was an economic assessment based on information contained in books, which I find tend to be much better sources of information than internet sites, even that great bastion of reliable information, Wikipedia. Paul Kennedy’s magnum opus, “The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers”, is a wonderful resource for understanding the true strategic positions of the various combatant countries in WWII. There’s lots of other really good ones out there, but his probably encapsulates it the best. If you read books such as Kennedy’s, you might find a few facts you might find inconvenient, such as the fact that Japan is very poor in natural resources such as oil, steel, rubber, tin, and most of the other basic elements of an industrial economy, making cross-Pacific attacks difficult.
Contrary to your dubious sources, Japan never made any serious attempts to attack the American mainland. The “submersible aircraft carriers” were on their way to Panama and, the last time I checked, that’s not part of the continental U.S. Japan’s entire war against the U.S. was more of an attempt to get the U.S. to butt out of what they considered to be their own imperial turf, enforcing something like the “Monroe Doctrine” if you will. When you think about it, what on Earth was the United States doing in Hawaii anyway? What were they doing in the Phillipines? What were they doing in Panama? Heck, what were they doing in Arizona? There’s a lovely quote from Prince Konoe Fumimaro in Niall Ferguson’s book, “The War of the World”, in which he comments on the state of the world post-Versailles. “Democracy and humanitarianism were nice sentiments, but they were simply a cloak for the United States and Britain to maintain their control over most of the world’s wealth.” They didn’t exactly gain that control over the world’s wealth without committing their own share of atrocities. I’ve read a bunch of books on that, too. You might prefer Wikipedia.
Even Wikipedia is more accurate than some of your assertions above, though I’m not going to take the time to point out all of the errors because you’ve got your “facts” and I’m sure you’ll stick to them. As to what I would have preferred, if I had the power to influence the course of history, I would have preferred that the spirit which overwhelmed men’s sense of patriotism on Christmas Eve in 1914 had been allowed to prevail and a lasting peace enacted then. Failing that, I would have preferred that the United States had kept itself out of the fight so that the vindictive “peace” which did come about would not have been so fatally flawed. Failing that, I would have preferred that all of the combatant powers had refrained from deliberately targeting civilians, no matter what idiotic justifications their commanders-in-chief had for doing so.
Actually CHICANERY, I have a pretty fair sized library and study. I once taught military history and Geopolitics at the Air Force Academy. But thank you for the lessons on how to determine if an article or book is appropriate for using as facts.
BTW, I am somewhat familiar with the economic and natural resources situation of Japan prior to and during the war. Again, I do thank you for all of your most informative information on the subject.
“Tom Paine’s Journal” is not exactly off the cuff opinions. He was a leading military historian and his works are in the Library of Congress and in the “special collection” of the Nimitz library at Annapolis, which was required reading for the graduate cadets. You may look him up if you have any doubts as to his credetials. His biography is online at the NASA History site. He was a swell guy BTW.
I also suggested another fine book here, authored by a top level historian and highly respected author and lecturer. I don’t believe you bothered to read my posts very carefully, or with an open mind, as it is evident you missed a lot there.
I would have preferred we stayed out of WW2 also. Roodevelt had no right to declare war on Japan. We should have immediately brought all of our troops home from every foreign land and Hawaii, sunk our naval fleet ourselves and asked the Japanese to forgive us for our transgressions and surrendered to them. Then Germany would not have declared war on us and we could have allowed Great Britian and Russia to go it alone. Yesereee, that is what Roosevelt and us Americans should have done. Wish you had been President then, sounds like you know it all.
What were we doing in Arizona? Are you from another planet by any chance? Are you old enough to drive a car? Have you ever sought treatment at a mental health facility? Get a life, drink a beer or two and bark at the moon or something.
KEM: I believe you missed my point completely. WWI and WWII are one and the same conflict. When I said the U.S. should have stayed out, I meant in 1917. Hence, the flawed “peace”. I thought as a historian, you would understand the short-hand for the disaster that was Versailles, which laid the groundwork for everything which happened thereafter.
As to the question of Arizona, I’ll defer to Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_american_war
The U.S. has been an empire since at least 1845. As such, it is the height of hypocrisy to claim it has a moral high ground over any other power with imperial ambitions.
Well, I see, of course you forgot to mention Texas, Californina, New Mexico and Nevada which were also territory we purchsed from Mexico. Hey, were the Mexicans the original settlers of that land? Wonder how they got the right for the land which was Indian terrority? Maybe the Mexicans took it away from the Indians? Baaaad Mexicans with Imperial ambitions.
We sure have gotten off of the sucject of school children and what they are taught in school haven’t we. You still think the ones I quoted as sources for my comments are weak? I mean after all, Tom O Paine was the director of NASA when our guys went the moon. You can’t read his papers that are in the LIbrary of Congress, they are still classified there and NO ONE can read them. Wonder why that would be? Of course he did write an extensive piece about the Japanese I-400 subs you knew so much about. He didn’t agreee with you though. He was one of our naval officers who took one from Japan to Hawaii after the war. Pretty impressive person, for any to deny he was a poor source of information on the subject. Which is what the subject we were discussing before you gave your rather bizziare opinions. I do wonder if you might be from outer space, another water world in ht eMilky Way perhaps? __ Goodby Teach, thanks again fo rthe swell lessons.
Hi, actually you did teach me some things, I never knew till now, that __ “We fought Japan in WW 1.” Or were they on our side in WW 1,___ since WW 1 and WW 2 are one and the same.
Golly, all of those years, I stupidely taught my students, that the two World Wars were not the same. I taught them that Hitler started WW 2 in Europe and Tojo and his gang started it it in Korea, Manchuria and China in the 1930s. Almost forgot Moos-el-eeni, How STUPID of me. Those leader guys of japan and Germany were such sweethearts too, and our nasty Roosevelt was a war mongering imperalistic land grabber. So were all of those young guys who died on the USS Arizona in December of 1941, remember, that day that went down in “fimey”?
Funny how dumb we can be and so one sided and stupid with our opinions. Wish I’d known Tom Paine was stupid too, bet you would have straightend him out in a hurry by golly. WOW!!! Hey, you a girl by any chance, you write like one. Which is Okay for sure, they write just fne, juat a bit different style usually. My wife writes a lot different than me. Of course she has a brain and knows how to spel words rite.
Oops, I forgot Colorado there CHICANERY. How come you used the internet for a source to quote your facts? Don’t you have a book on the Mexican American War” I got several. They all read dfferent as to why and how it all happened. ___ Imagine that. This time it’s byyyyyyyyyyy for good.
Nitety nite, don’t let the bedbugs byte. That’s a cute sayng we humans have on this planet.
http://stonebooks.com/archives/050724.shtml
Thanks for the info, but I’ll stick with Tom Paine’s Journal, which was not supposition. It wasn’t death rays Truman was concerned with, it was the possibility Japan could develop atomic weapons, and their well mnown means of delivering such to our shores. The technical data Paine presented was well substanciated, he gave only facts. I will also stick with what the Russians finally reported about the nuclear facility in North Korea. Japan was very close and we are fortunate the war ended when it did.
It is unfortunate Russia was allowed to have North Korea and divide that country, as any can easily see how that turned out.
http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/jp-hung.htm
Finally found the link about Japan’s nuclear bomb project during WW2. ___ They were very close.
I don’t want to get into this anymore with you, but I would hate to see this misinformation go unchallenged.
It’s obvious you didn’t read the whole book review. Grunden’s work debunks Wilcox’s claims about the Japanese nuclear program and it’s based on science, not supposition. The “death rays” bit in the beginning of the article is just to show that they were working on lots of strange ideas during the war, most of which were just as unobtainable for them as atomic weapons.
The Sen-Toku (I-400) submarines were too little too late, had to obtain their fuel from China, and carried a payload which would have made even less difference in the war than the fire balloons the Japanese sent over the Pacific. They were also overly large to make such a trip undetected and likely would have been sunk by the U.S. Navy, even if their trip to Panama hadn’t been aborted by the top command, who realized they had bigger fish to fry. This at a time when the USAAF was devastating Japanese cities with tens of thousands of casualties in single raids, using the “conventional” weaponry of which that war criminal Lemay was so fond. I also find it interesting that the original half-baked mission of these craft, a germ warfare assault by dropping rats and insects infected with various plagues was canceled by the Chief of the Army General Staff, who said “Germ warfare against the United States would escalate to war against all humanity.” Meanwhile, the idiots running the Manhattan project decided it was OK to drop their test bomb even though the scientists weren’t sure whether or not it would blow up the whole planet.
The key problem with swallowing the wartime propaganda about the atomic bombings hook, line, and sinker, as you seem to have done, is that it forms part of the guiding myth of American exceptionalism. If the folks in Washington can convince people to believe that the atomic bombings, which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, were justified based on possible casualties which may or may not have come from an invasion of the island which may or may not have been necessary to bring about a surrender which may or may not have come earlier if it didn’t need to be “unconditional”, they can convince those people to also believe that we need to invade a small country, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, to prevent it from obtaining “weapons of mass destruction”. The “Good War” mythos is very handy for the propagandists in Washington because every petty little dictator can be inflated into a Hitler, every invasion saves lives, and every atrocity is regrettable, but necessary.
Incidentally, the view you have of the atomic bombings (i.e. regrettable, but necessary) is still alive and well in the American school system. This article was about a wonderful teacher who bucked that trend. You are attacking paper tigers for no good cause. I prefer the paper cranes.
I see, so in your ‘humble’ opinion, Tom O Paine, a nuclear scientist, a naval officer who was on the crew that took the I-400 sub to Hawaii, a man who was respected enough to be selected to be the director of NASA, was an idiot, for writng a comprehensive report on the I-400, which was and is, DIRECTLY OPPOSITE of your beliefs and comments.
Good to see we have someone here like you, CHIC, who is obviously far more knowledgable on the subject than Paine was and is able to give your audience the proper scoop so they won’t be ‘mis-lead’.
I never said WW 2 was a ‘GOOD’ war BTW, no wars have ever been good. Also, if as you so hautily state, the powers in Washington at that time, wished everyone to spin propaganda about the use of the bombs, or why all decisions concerning the use of the bomb was justified, they would not have classified those I-400 documents top secret for over 50 years. Unfortunantly, nuclear power at that time was most secret and anythig related to it was hushed up as much as possible.
Even today, Tom Paine’s reports in the LIbrary of Congress of what was found on the I-400 are so highly clasified, they are available to __ “no one”. __ The security restriction is higher than that of Hanger 18 at Wright Patterson AFB. I’m sure you never bothered to read with an open mind, his report, or the last link I offered, which was written by several very highly respected people. You are so determned to prove your points, you will never accept diverse opinions, most of which you were never aware of. You remind me of the SMART people, who comdemmed the scientist who discovered the Earth wasn’t really flat. But I agree with one of your comments, this debate has gone far enough. Bye, __BYE.
Oops, just read your last blog which was posted as I was editing mine. So will return ONE last time. You may have the last word, if it pleases your twisted mind.
You have gone from a somewhat friendly debatee to a __G-damn liar.__ I never ever attacked ths article or the subject matter. I said it was good and I hoped it would continue etc in my first posts.
As far as the reports concering the I-400s and the German sub U-234, they are not taught in schools, or colleges. For one thng, they were top secret until the 1980s and unavailble for teaching, except for those cleared and with the need to know. So stash it CHICK, you have shown what you really are.
“So stash it CHICK, you have shown what you really are.”
I believe I can say the same for you. “Anyone who thinks there might be more to the story of Japanese bomb making efforts at Hungnam is basically a right wing whacko and/or believes in little green men.”
The operational history of the I-400 class submarines has been available for quite some time, contrary to your assertions about its ultra-top-secret nature.
http://www.pacerfarm.org/i-400
http://www.amazon.com/Submarines-World-War-Erminio-Bagnasco/dp/1854095323/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195838218&sr=8-1
Don’t follow leaders. Watch the parking meters.
Sayonara. Good night and good luck.
Dang, I’m fulll of it on this score, you aren’t getting the last word as yet.
I said the I-400 report was Top Secret until the 1980s and it was, that was my assertion as you write, and still is. The link you provided on Tom Paine, is the same as the one I had offered previously, it was unavailabe to the public until 1984. So what is your point, other than to make a fool of yourself?
If you wish to dis-beleive the reports by highly qualified individuals about the subject matter, and say any who do believe them are whacko’s, ___knock yourself out, but stop lyi;ng here and attempting to decieve any others.
Once again, I appluad the teachers and students who are trying in any large or small way, to promote peace on earth. I love it and it is good.
I also firmly believe, all of our students and everyone else, should be fully aware of all documents and why it was necessary for President Truman to make that awful decision to use atomic weapons, yet sadly, it is rarely the case.
It is very apparent, you did not mention your comment, where you intenionally lied, saying that I had attacked this article. So you cannot with any justification, state that you can say the same about me that I say about you. You are wrong ___ and you know it.
KEM PATRICK November 20th, 2007 6:54 pm
“You see, we teach our students the horror of our using the atomic bombs, the tragedy it created in lives of very good and decent people. However, if those students never hear the flip side of the coin, they grow up with the belief, that our country was entirely wrong, and our President Truman was an evil person for using the terrible weapon. It is both right and necessary for all students to learn the entire story. ___ The Chinese people, the Koreans, and the citizens of the Phillipines know it.”
Chicanery November 23rd, 2007 11:45 am
“Incidentally, the view you have of the atomic bombings (i.e. regrettable, but necessary) is still alive and well in the American school system.”
I never said you attacked this article. I said your views on the atomic bombings are still prevalent in the school system and therefore your perceived need to get your “facts” out there is unnecessary.
Furthermore, your beloved Thomas Paine article does not even support what you’re saying. I find it difficult to see how you find it possible to inflate this:
“Before the submarines could set sail for Panama more than 3000 Allied warships and transports had reached the Pacific for Operation Olympic, the forthcoming invasion of Japan. This growing threat forced Tokyo strategists to reconsider the attack on distant Panama, which now appeared a questionable diversion. Over his vehement objections Captain Ariizumi was ordered to abandon his squadron’s carefully rehearsed canal strike and attack instead American naval forces at Ulithi Atoll. In his account of this period Captain Orita relates how Sixth Fleet staff in Tokyo told the fulminating ComSubRon One: A man does not worry about a fire he sees on the horizon when other flames are licking at his kimono sleeve!”
into this
“Perhaps they could also see the films and learn of the gigantic Japanese submarines, which had a range of 37,000 miles and which were actually aircraft carriers that could each launch three bombers which had a range of over 2,100 miles at a speed of near 300 mph carrying a one ton bomb load. One of those subs was at sea, heading to bomb the Panama Canal when Japan surrendered. Tell those children about the Japanese nuclear facility they operated in North Korea, until their surrender, where they were producing atomic weapons before it was taken over by the Russians in August of 1945.”
It’s especially outrageous you can make these assertions given the fact that Wilcox’s book on the Japanese atomic weapon program was thoroughly debunked and there is no evidence that there was ever any connection between the two programs. Using this dubious information as a justification for the atomic bombings is ridiculous at best.
There is one thing we can agree about.
“Once again, I appluad the teachers and students who are trying in any large or small way, to promote peace on earth. I love it and it is good.”
I couldn’t agree with you more on that score, but I wish I’d listened to joed’s advice.
Happy Thanksgiving, Pepe.
You did write, “This article was about a wonderful teacher who bucked that trend, you are attacking paper tigers for no good cause”. I never attacked the teacher or her cause. You lied, or attempted to mislead what I had written. ___ I don’t need your ‘Happy Thanksgiving’ wishes either. Don’t attempt to make yourself look like a decent person.
My beloved Tom Paine? No, not beloved, smart alec, I respect his words and judgement. Can you match or even cme close to havng his experience and qualifications?
Wilcox’s book was de-bunked,__ by whom? You perhaps? Furthermore, he was certainly not the only one to write on the subject. Read the offered links and sub-links available onht subject.
As Anderson Cooper stated: It is very fortunate Truman was able to end the fighting, Japan was very close to having the atomic bomb and surely would have used it if they had the opportunity. It was a matter of weeks before thay could have used them on us or our invasion fleet. There are ome who wonder if the I-400 was carrying atomic bombs to use on our West Coast cities when they were ordered to surrender. Their commander committed suicide. They were carrying over 200 men when they surrendered and a normal crew was near 160. Why 200+ aboard? What else were they carrying? That is still highly classified information for some dumb reason.
Was the story Taht submarine and aircraft were going to bomb the Panama Canal a cover story, devised to hide the real truth from the public? I can easily see where our government would not wish the public to know what Japan was doing, in regards to atomic power. They surely would not wish the Russians to know. Of course as it turned out, the Russians knew more about the Japanese endeavors on that score than our government did.
We, You , I, just don’t know all of the truth, that information is still not available to us. Those are not MY opinions, they are those of HIGHLY qualified people who were in a position of being well informed, and who could know the truth, but were forbidden to speak of it or to publish it at that time. The truths are still not taught in our schools and people like yourself, don’t help for the truth to be known. You are the one who is pitiful, ignorant and ridiculous on this issue CHIC. Take your insulting accusations and eat them.
An exerpt from an article, published in the JAPAN TIMES__ on 7 March 2003.
“Japan’s own efforts to build an atomic bomb are difficult for us to accept, because of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the widespread feeling, that the Japanese would have even considered such a brutal attack”.
The Japanese military condsider brutality? That is laughable. ___ Very slowly, the truth eeks out, even the Japanese are beginning to panfully acknowledge the truth. They were developing FISSION bombs with over 25% more power than the bomb we dropped on Hiroshima. Woul dthey have used them? ___ Do bears poop in the woods?
The paper tiger you are attacking is the notion that schoolchildren are not being taught that the atomic bombings were regrettable, but necessary.
The debunking of Wilcox is in a book reviewed at:
http://stonebooks.com/archives/050724.shtml
Bye. Go play with your friends at Fox News.
Another of your idiotic assumptions. I don’t ever watch Fox news. Sadly, some of our friends do though, that’s because of people like you, who spread their usual propaganda.
Lots of people with your opinions write books. I notice you never addressed most of my points, such as the Japanese newspaper article, or that many others besides Wilcox wrote papers on the Japanese atomic program. Wilcox’s book quoted many osrces, it wsn’t just his OPINIONS. You are just like any neo-con bully type, spreading their well written lies. You are an excllent writer, but you’re true nature jumps off the screen for any observant person to see.