US Fears Israeli Strike Against Iran Over Latest Nuclear Claim
A claim by President Ahmadinejad that Iran has 3,000 working uranium-enriching centrifuges sent a tremor across the world yesterday amid fears that Israel would respond by bombing the country’s nuclear facilities.
Military sources in Washington said that the existence of such a large number could be a “tipping point”, triggering an Israeli air strike. The Pentagon is reluctant to take military action against Iran, but officials say that Israel is a “different matter”. Amid the international uproar, British MPs who were to have toured the nuclear facility were backing out of their Iran trip.
Even before President Ahmadinejad’s announcement, a US defence official told The Times yesterday: “Israel could do something when they get to around 3,000 working centrifuges. The Pentagon is minded to wait a little longer.” US experts say 3,000 machines running for long periods could make enough enriched uranium for an atomic bomb within a year.
Israel responded by serving notice that it would not tolerate a nuclear Iran. “Talks never did, and never will, stop rockets,” said Ehud Barak, the Defence Minister, after talks with the security cabinet.
The US and Western allies believe that Iran is using its civilian nuclear programme as a cover for weapon development. Tehran says that it merely wants to generate electricity.
Concern about Israel’s intentions has been heightened by its recent air strike on a suspected nuclear plant in Syria. In 1981 Israel destroyed Saddam Hussein’s Iraqi nuclear reactor, and as the sole - if undeclared - nuclear power in the region, it now considers Iran the most serious threat to its security. Mr Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be “wiped off the map”.
Efraim Inbar, of the Begin-Sadat Centre for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv, said that the figure of 3,000 centrifuges would signal the ability of Israel’s arch-foe to produce the nuclear material needed for a warhead. “I wouldn’t be surprised if we do something if the international community leaves us alone,” he said. “I think we [Israel] are preparing for it. For Israel this is a critical technological moment.”
Tehran says it plans to expand its enrichment programme to up to 54,000 centrifuges at Natanz in central Iran, which would amount to industrial-scale uranium enrichment.
Mr Ahmadinejad, speaking yesterday at a rally, said that UN sanctions had failed to halt uranium enrichment. “The world must know that this nation will not give up one iota of its nuclear rights . . . if they think they can get concessions from this nation, they are badly mistaken,” he said. He has in the past claimed that Iran succeeded in installing the 3,000 centrifuges at its uranium enrichment facility but yesterday’s speech was the first time he had said all of them were now operational.
The International Atomic Energy Authority recently put the figure at closer to 2,000, with another 650 being tested. The IAEA said yesterday: “We will be publishing a report next week. We will not make any comment about this until then.” Javier Solana, the EU foreign policy chief, is shortly to report on Iran’s willingness to give up uranium enrichment in exchange for political and trade incentives.
In London, at least five members of the Commons Foreign Affairs Committee were refusing to take part in the planned trip to Iran, arguing that it would hand the regime a propaganda coup. The visit, to begin on Sunday, would be the first by a select committee since 15 British Service personnel were held in March. That incident and evidence that the regime is supporting insurgencies in Afghanistan and Iraq and planning to build a nuclear bomb has strained relations with Britain.
About eight MPs, from all three main parties, are still planning to spend four days in Iran next week.
Eric Illsley, a Labour MP who is one of those to have pulled out, said: “I really don’t fancy having pictures of me next to an Iranian nuclear facility beamed around the world.”
- Intelligence agencies have begun to vet all foreign postgraduates applying to study sensitive scientific subjects in Britain. The aim is to prevent Iranian students getting expertise in fields related to producing weapons of mass destruction. Sixty Iranians have been refused university places this year.
© 2007 The Times Company
“What an attack on Iran really means”
http://www.chycho.com/?q=Gwynne_Dyer
“Just to put things into perspective, making sure that it is fully understood what the impact of an attack on Iran really means, consider this. The United States has already stated that they will use nuclear weapons in an aerial bombardment campaign against Iran. Since the creation of the atomic bomb, it has been accepted that once nuclear weapons are used again in any war, then they will continue to be used until there is no one left to kill. As the saying goes, you do not bring a knife to a gunfight, so once a nuclear weapon has been used on any country then that country and its people have a right to use unclear weapons in retaliation. Albert Einstein once said, “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones”. I personally hope that we will not fulfill Einstein’s prophecy.”
It seems to me, given the Pakistan situation, and the American election of 2008 now less than one year away, that if any airstrike is done in the near term on an Iranian facility that it would be more likely done by Israel than by the United States.
Maybe someone should bomb the US and Israel’s nuclear fascilities since they are the ones that actually impose mass suffering, invade sovereign territory, lie, claim victimization or strut like heroes when they are war criminals, and ignore the most UN resolutions…and so the litany goes.
I agree Daniel David. The important thing for the U.S. is to prevent Iran from exporting oil thereby driving up the price of oil for U.S. controlled companies. An attack by Israel will do the trick. As for the chaos that will surely follow, I’m afraid that the Neo-cons actually believe that it will be contained. After all, the MIC is in high gear with no signs of slowing down in my lifetime.
As for Pakistan, despite the turmoil viewed in the media these days, Musharraf is not likely to lose control. The opposition is divided, poorly armed and uncoordinated. The problems there won’t spill over to Iran. It is far more likely that the problems in Iran will spill into Pakistan.
THE REAL WMD THAT THE INTERNATIONAL,FINANCIAL, ELITE FEAR IS THE OIL BOURSE. THE IRANIAN WMD ISSUE IS A CANARD; AND THIS REALLY IS THE NUCLEAR WEAPON THAT SCARES HELL OUT OF THEM. IRAN IS IN THE PROCESS OF CHANGING THEIR BOURSE AND HAS 85% OF IT FINISHED. WHAT A COINCIDENCE, WE ATTACKED IRAQ ABOUT THE TIME THEY WERE CHANGING THEIR BOURSE. WAR IS ALWAYS ABOUT INDUSTRIAL SELFISHNESS. WE ARE TALKING POTENTIAL LOSES IN THE TRILLIONS OF $. NOTHING EVER CHANGES: FOLLOW THE $!
Different how? Either way it will correctly be seen as coming from the same imperial alliance and the end result will be the same.
While we’re at it, better nuke Canada at the same time. Those nasty Canucks have had the knowledge, technology and ongoing programs of atomic energy and nuclear development since WWII. Hell, they’ve even got their own raw materials sources without needing anything from Niger.
Considering the amount of petroleum in and under Canadian soil, they can’t possibly be doing this for peaceful purposes. You can never trust UN IAEA monitoring. Canada might follow the example of its US neighbor and just ignore its treaty obligations and international laws that it finds inconvenient. And they’re a heck of a lot closer to the fatherland than Iran is. Nuke ‘em now before it’s too late.
USA and Israel are the problems here. One is the thief and the other is the alibi.
What colossal arrogance!!!!! Certainly talk hasn’t stopped Israeli rockets. (Concern about Israel’s intentions has been heightened by its recent air strike on a suspected nuclear plant in Syria.) Haven’t heard anything about Iran setting off rockets against anybody.
Has anybody noticed that in GW’s “terror war”, he has allied himself with the two nuclear terrorist regimes in the midEast, Israel and Pakistan?
Instead of invading Iraq the coalition of the willing should have invaded Israel to stop its naked agression and restore human rights and some justice for the palestinians.
Iran’s military is about 1/20,000 of the US, and far smaller than any of its mid-east neighbors. It does have some ships and a small air force, but militarily-speaking Iran is about as threatening as Iraq was before we bombed it into the stone age. The only thing Iran has is infantry and rockets - if they developed nuclear weapons, yes, they theoretically could attach one to a rocket and hurt someone in a 500-1000 mile radius from Iran. So what? They would never do so, since they know quite well that their existence would end 1 hour later.
If they want a nuclear weapon as a deterrent against the US or Israel invading them - good. Who can blame them? It’s what every country wants - everyone knows that the only countries the US invades are non-nuclear nations. This is why we would never invade N. Korea: they have nukes. Israel is in violation of the UN NP treaty by possessing nuclear weapons but refusing to acknowledge them so it doesn’t have to be bound by it. The US is in violation of numerous other international laws and treaties - or just plain withdraws from the ones it doesn’t like - as well. We have violated the Nuremburg Charter and the Geneva Conventions by establishing actual military plans for the nuclear bombardment of other countries. Even planning nuclear attacks - whether carried out or not - is illegal, and considered a War Crime per the above-named laws, of which the US is a signatory.
But so what? The US can do anything it wants, and thus so can Israel. Iran is no more a threat to us or them than Iraq was, but by God we will bomb the crap out of them (or through our proxy state, Israel) in the name of “national security,” and the law and humanity and the rest of the world be damned.
Who is the real terrorist state? Iran, for wanting to develop a nuclear weapon so the US won’t attack it? Or the US - the only nation in the history of the world to actually premeditavely plan and launch not 1 but 2 nuclear weapons against a civilian population, murdering over 500,000 human beings?
Remember Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
Remember the USS Liberty
Remember the great USAer
Major General Smedley D. Butler, USMC [Retired]
Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
There isn’t much of a difference between Israel and the United States. Israel is the proxy of the United States for enslaving and punishing the Arabs and Muslims.
If I had to bet money, I would wager that Israel will attack Iran for the United States. The USA (United States of Atrocities) will play its role by arming Israel with whatever armaments the Israelis want.
Think of the USA as the mafia and Israel as one its hitmen.
If Israel attacks Iran does Iran have the “right to defend” itself?
Of course not! What a silly question. Besides, Israel doesn’t ‘attack’ people. It merely emulates its US sponsor by engaging in a little ‘pre-emptive warfare’ from time to time.
Absolute insanity, but what can you expect when the inmates are in charge of the asylum?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=OSB20060314&articleId=2093
“The aim is to prevent Iranian students getting expertise in fields related to producing weapons of mass destruction. Sixty Iranians have been refused university places this year.”
Nothing like an old-fashioned witchhunt is there, yeee hawww! I guess this is what happens when you declare an entire people to be evil, remember the Axis?
And yes, there’s a good chance that Iran wants a nuke, but is it also possible that the Imperialists want to stop it from producing domestic nuclear energy? After all, the more nuclear energy Iran puts into its grid, the more oil it has to export. And not just export to anywhere, but to China. Hmmmmm….another interesting coincidence to work in conjunction with the Bourse theory mentioned above.
Israel and the USA both have extremely barbaric people in power, they are menaces to mankind and must be stopped.
What a perfect way to stir up more Islamic fundamentalism, while wrecking the credibility of secular reformers throughout the Moslem world.
Nobody will be fooled if Israel does America’s military dirty work against Iran.
US fingerprints will be all over this crime scene.
If this happens, I would expect renewed Al Qaeda attacks against US citizens at home and abroad, leading to more security measures at home and abroad, leading to more cowardice by our domestic media and so-called opposition party, and so on, and so on.
The general approach of this article is dangerous, because it coheres with the position that if Iran has a nuclear weapons program, the Cheney ’solution’ makes sense, and because it ignores the real problem of the situation, which is the occupation of the ME by the U.S. We need to cease our aggression if we expect others to do the same. If we do not, the people of the ME will and have the right to take whatever means necessary to defend themselves.
“And if they get blown away, it is because of their own doing.”
Unfortunately, as a country that actually does have a goodly number of nuclear weapons, their getting ‘blown away’ would undoubtedly be accompanied by a Samsonian bringing down of the planet. They just don’t want anyone else in the region to have anything approaching the level of destructive potential that they possess.
Israel again? War-mongers! They will pull the world into a catastophic nuclear war!
Israel has been charged many times with crimes, and yet she has never seen the inside of a courtroom. Israel is nothing more than a criminal nation-state, who has never been brought to justice-in any form.
Her crimes against the Palestinians alone, are horrific. Israel has been a “rogue nation” for too long. She needs to be shackled.
Demonstorm
3 of our 11 carrier groups are in the gulf, and they would be easy victims of Irans anti ship technology. The sunburst system purchased from Russia and China cannot be defended. Much of the airwar discussed as bombing Iran into the stoneage would be carrier based. Iran can also effectively close down the Persian Gulf via the Straights of Hormuz, no more tankers would leave the middle east (yikes!).
I am really scared that Bush is in his final death throes and will do something as stupid as attack ANOTHER country, possibly with nuclear weapons.
I wouldnt put it past the administration to view the thousands of soldiers who would be killed in the Gulf as a small price to pay in order to reward contractors will a nice order for 3 new carrier groups.
It seems as though Israel is the USA’s OTHER Blackwater. Hired contractors defined by a border, but contractors nonetheless.
This is where US interest clearly is separate from Israeli interest, but who’s to know? The US$ and Americans’ wealth and lifestyle are clearly on a knife edge now as the world ponders ditching the Yankee dollar as the reserve currency.
An Israeli attack on Iran will light the fuse of a massive war in the Middle East. Iranian forces will pour into Iraq. Iraqi Shiites will turn on the Americans causing massive casualties on all sides. Iranian rockets will plaster American client regimes in the ME. The Straits of Hormuz will be blocked.
The price of oil will skyrocket. $20/gallon if you can get it. President Chavez, whom Bush has managed to piss off big time, will take punitive action against the bombing and destruction of a country with whom he had a frienship pact. Russia and China will retaliate, if subtly. Commerce around the world will grind to a halt. Your supermarket shelves will be go empty.
America will be finished. As former Regan staffer Dr. Paul Craig Roberts says in one of his brillant articles, Dubya will have done to the American Empire in seven years what in other empires took thousands of years.
American People! STOP THESE NOCON MADMEN and that Israeli thug! NOW!!
“Now Israel is calling for El-Baradei’s resignation, calling him a hinderence to world peace. Can you believe the arrogance of this tiny racist state? They go around pre-emptively striking at will and then wonder why they are hated. Israel deserves everything coming their way. And if they get blown away, it is because of their own doing.”
How ironic it will be if the Israelis finish the job the Germans started in the 1930’s by committing nuclear suicide. If they use a nuke on Iran that’s exactly what they will be doing. It is possible that if Israel sees the end coming they will go out with a region wide nuclear spasm taking most of the Middle East to hell with them. Just a thought. Are thoughts illegal yet? If not maybe they will be soon, by presidential order.
One of the most useful economic concepts is full costs. If full costs of everything are reflected in their retail prices the consumer may very easily uphold one’s environmental/social responsibilities by acting in one’s economic self-interest.
Likewise, when the full costs of nuclear weapons are made public, the citizen more easily arrives at the conclusion that meets both the citizen’s economic self interest and environmental/social responsibilities. The full costs of nuclear weapons include the costs incurred attempting to prevent other countries from catching up in the nuclear arms race.
The entire Iraq war budget (including future trillion dollar veterans costs) must be added to the full cost of the US nuclear weapons program. Given the public’s environmental/social responsibilities, we must factor in the opportunity cost of the US government’s perennial nuclear distraction, which inhibits our quest to advance the environmental/social well-being of the planet.
Full costs will reveal that the nuclear program, like all of the right-wing enterprises, has to be banished. We’re closer than ever to impeaching and exorcising El Diablo from the White House and the heart of America. After that, we’ll leave the White House vacant to let the sulfur stench dissipate while we ram a full costs bill through the US Congress. It’s going to be a busy 12 months dismantling “laissez-faire” capitalism and the military-industrial complex.
Why is this crap on CD?
When are we going to bomb Israel’s nuclear weapons facilities?…how about India’s and Pakiatans?
Are thoughts illegal yet? If not maybe they will be soon, by presidential order.
comment by the dude or dudette with the awesome name of bongofury
‘The U.S. House of Representatives recently passed HR 1955, titled the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007. It was passed with 404 votes in favor.
snip
This is a “thoughtcrime” bill of the type so often discussed in an Orwellian context. It specifically targets the civilian population of the United States. It defines “violent radicalization” as promoting any belief system that the government considers to be extremist.
snip
A few extracts of the bill are presented below to show you its tone or flavor.
“(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization’ means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system… to advance political, religious, or social change.”‘
http://downwithjugears.blogspot.com/
A bit of a stretch but not by much!
The US isn’t reluctant to bomb Iran. We’re only waiting until we can figure our how to get the public to buy-in to it so there’s not massive protesting and rioting.
Israel has no right to attack Iran. If they are that stupid then they should be left to their own design when they get stomped.
My concern is that an Israeli attack on Iran will be an excuse for the US to get involved. I doubt it will work though because the protesting will be massive.
Mr. Ahmadinejad said that Israel will “Pass from the pages of time”. If Israel is stupid enough to attack Iran, I think they’ll get “Wiped off the map”.
Israel’s military, like the Pakistan military is financed by U.S. taxpayers. Both countries are like colonies, they follow orders from the
rabid bastards in Washington.
The time for Empires and imperialism has past. It’s time for social democracy and world peace. To hell with tolerating the oligarchy and their unbridled greed and the poverty that they create!
‘If Israel is stupid enough to attack Iran, I think they’ll get “Wiped off the map”.’
Don’t forget, Israel has nuclear capabilities. I’m sure, if total devastation and defeat were imminent, Israel wouldn’t have any reservations, at all, about using them against Iran.
If so, then all Hell would break loose.
TheLorax …
Unfortunately for the world, in the most recent Zogby Poll released October 29, the “majority of likely voters – 52% – would support a U.S. military strike to prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon, and 53% believe it is likely that the U.S. will be involved in a military strike against Iran before the next presidential election.”
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1379
dumb … very very dumb … I’m personally starting to think America is the way it is because of what people eat … we are after all what we eat and since most of America eat processed food then it would explain why they can’t think
“Some of the so-called ‘food’ that majority of Americans eat”
http://www.chycho.com/?q=node/1215
“Every month more than 90 percent of American children eat at McDonald’s ; the average American eats three hamburgers and four orders of french fries every week.”
That’s a good one, haha……”U.S. ‘fears’ Israel strike against Iran.” What a bunch of jokers they are. The truth is the U.S. is eagerly anticipating Israel to start the free-for-all and of course it will jump in to “defend” Israel. Both war criminal countries have it all planned out.
It’s been a done deal for 15 years or more. When the Israelis think they are close to starting enrichment they are going to come to us and ask us to take it out, if we refuse (and we will), they are going to do it.
The dollar is already heading for the toilet, oil prices are skyrocketing, investors are fleeing to the yuan and rupee, home foreclosures will only worsen, credit is drying up. A war with Iran will be the final tragic act of a dying, gasping, empire.
It doesn’t matter if the US or Israel attacks Iran. Everyone knows it’s one and the same thing. Unlike Syria, I doubt that Iran will ignore an attack. Alliances with Russia and China are already in the works with Iran. China holds the US by the financial balls.
Cheney Bush Cabal Inc. are on a suicide mission. The wounded beast looks, deceptively, like it’s still standing but will soon flop over with a resounding thud.
greatbear215 and countess
And your solution is what? Let’s see. Invade Israel and put down the “Zionist Pigs,’ put their holy places to the torch and drive their war criminal army into the sea. What to do with the Zionist population of seven million who don’t want to leave. You’ve got it countess and greatbear215. Kill two million, or so, of them and disperse the rest through Europe and the world. Wait, The Romans did this already, not very original. While you don’t have Flavius Silva and Legio X Fretensis, you can muster General Qussem Soleimani and the Quds Forces. Rant on. Twits!
Drive them into the sea?
Give me a break. I get so sick of hearing this whine of the internal victim while they in fact, are a nuclear superpower imposing an apartheid on a victimized population..of semite people. Yeah, what is it you call it…”transfer”–you know, like an exile of sorts…
It is all I can take from not cursing outloud.
Salvia, note the language of that Zogby poll - yhey used people’s fear of nuclear weapons on that one.
The CNN poll out today has different results:
“The public also opposes U.S. military action against Iran. Sixty-three percent oppose air strikes on Iran, while 73 percent oppose using ground troops as well as air strikes in that country.”
Not great but better.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/08/cnn-political-ticker-am-90/
Cut the crap, Vern! And your solution is what?
The authors of this article repeat that Amadinejad said he wants Israel “wiped off the map”, something he did not say. What he did say is that he wished that Israel would eventually disappear. That is quite different; I could say this as well, but would not subscribe to any unprovoked military attack on Israel.
This is a canard that continues to be used by the mainstream press to push its aggressive anti-Iranian agenda.
somersault: … renewed Al Qaeda attacks against US citizens at home and abroad, leading to more security measures at home and abroad, leading to more cowardice by our domestic media and so-called opposition party, and so on, and so on.
You left out the best part - more money for BushCo’s investors!
Russia sees the Iranian Nuke Plant as Ruassian soil. The US and Israel are playing Russian Roulette. Do you think this is why the Bushes bought that 100,000 Hectare ranch in Uruguay. Once all of the USA is radioactive, they will need somewhere to live. Using nukes against a non-nuclear nation is suicide. The other NPT signees will have to destroy the aggressor nation. Read the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.
Ominous!
Well, neglecting the fact that Iran’s nuclear enrichment program and all other aspects of their nuclear program are under IAEA inspections… no, not just normal inspections, but additional scrutiny inspired by the totally groundless accusations against them; Neglecting that there are enormous differences between the plumbing of centrifuges for fuel grade uranium and for weapons grade; Neglecting that one does not switch the plumbing for uranium fluoride gas, as one would switch the plumbing for milk vats; Neglecting all of that, one might imagine that 3000 centrifuges operational might allow Iran to produce enough weapons grade uranium in a year for a bomb to be built in some finite time after that.
Ominous indeed, if you are a blathering idiot, and particularly want to be scared out of your non-existent wits. Otherwise, you might conclude that Iran could not produce weapons grade uranium as long as IAEA inspections endure. You might then encourage the cooperation of IAEA and Iran, rather than try to undercut the negotiation process in favour of belligerent posturing.
Seems like the only solution is a first strike on Israel’s nukes, air bases and submarines. Then the world can sigh, take a deep breath and get down to real peace talks. Real hope of the fantasy of peace in the ME coming true.
I believe the cheering could be heard on the moon if this happened.
People its the other way around the US is Israel’s attack dog. Walt and Mersheimer prove as much in their book about AIPAC and certainly the patriot Jimmy Carter stated as much. Lets not forget who serves Israel either the Schumer’s Mukasey’s, Liberman’s, Feinstein’s and the necons in our gov’t. No one else in our gov’t no other faction wants war with Iran only the pro-Zionist one. Time to wake up!
I deeply apologize to all of the previous military nuclear strategists on right now, it’s just I do not want to be vaporized just yet, my daughter’s, I sort of really love them, yet the thought of dying together is not acting as a mega-benzo to my system.
I have family in Havana, Istanbul, Bursa and America, so knock this shit off! As if we have any say in it, alright? Alright.
Thank You.
Bob Van den Broeck - I believe that huge piece of land the Bushes bought is actually in Paraguay. The link says that it’s just under 100,000 acres and they also reports that Rev. Moon (!) also bought almost 1.5 million acres in the same place.
Coincidentally (?):
‘both the Moonie and Bush land is located at what Paraguay’s drug czar called an “enormously strategic point in both the narcotics and arms trades.” And it sits atop the one of the world’s largest fresh-water aquifers.’
There’s more:
http://wonkette.com/politics/george-w‘-bush/we-hate-to-bring-up-the-nazis-but-they-fled-to-south-america-too-208549.php
You might be thinking of Uruguay because Bush Sr. accompanied Rev. Moon to Uruguay to inaugurate a new Moonie “seminary” in 1996.
Boy for a minute there I thought the headline was saying that the US was reluctant to attack Iran but not relulctant to atack Israel. (Nah–I really knew that wasn’t the plan!) But this is like that old saying that if all you have is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail.
Israel’s belligerence in the Middle East is not only fueled by its nuclear weaponry,(everybody throw yo’ hands in the air and say “Noo-q-lur–wheee”!) it is equally facilitated by billions of dollars in unrestricted no strings attached money given to that country by the US.
So here’s what we could do: Park the 5th fleet off of Israel’s Mediterrainian coast and redirect the Persian Gulf carrier and land-based air power to keep an AWACS watch on Israel (that way we don’t get anymore sinkings like what happened to The Liberty in ‘67)
The president then tells Israel that they have 90 days to arrange for a complete UN inspection and monitoring of their nuclear facilities and that failure to cooperate will result in the immediate cessation of all US aid and cooperation as well as a Cuban-style trade embargo on their commerce. We could even threaten to freeze all assets of private charities providing aid to Israel (Is this sounding familiar to anyone?)
Then we diplomatically tell Syria, Iran, and the rest of the anti-semetic Middle East that (like Sting!) Every step you take, every move you make, our military will be watching you–so behave yourselves!
Demonstorm–
Speaking to you as a brother, I say that yes, our country is terrorist, but no, you should
never underestimate Iranian military resolve nor that of Iraq nor any Arab country.
Yes, the US bombed Iraq back into the stone age, but militarily the place has more than held its own, through roadside attacks which are the equivalent of endless guerilla warfare when there is a jungle.
Do we really want, for the next thousand years, a world full of Sirhan Sirhans going around and killing an American every time he or she turns their back?
The same person who can be very sweet if you are generous, thoughtful and reasonable can become the most formidable adversary in the world once his back is up.
Have you ever played an Iranian in tennis and gotten ahead?
I suggest that you read Bruce Laingen’s book on the Iranian character. He was head of the mission that was kidnapped and held in Tehran
and knows more about these people first-hand.
Demonstorm,
What a insufferable imbecile you are to generalize about a people you know nothing about…
I’m sorry you played tennis with one?
You ****ing moron.
Hey Vern,
Your disguise is a little too transparent. I can see your bias through your outrage. It’s not pretty
Get impeachment moving against Cheney. That will rein in Israel.
They won’t start something without being absolutely sure of our complete support.
Israel has to do the bidding of the US in order to stay alive. Who else will protect the Jewish state? Germany? France? Our Semitic brethren? Its a bad bargain, but WHAT is the choice????
Israel wont start something unless the US forces her to do so. And furthurmore, she can never be sure of anybody complete support as the centuries have proved.
when oil flows from Iraq like it did in 1989
gas is $1.00 a gallon.
simple
Texas be damned in fact give it back to Mexico
only 4 illegal invasions where by the only 2 texas president(s)
I hate oil and petroleum based products
go electrice go solar… texas go-away…..
Poet, I read that link headline in exactly the same way. The USA is always sending the Israeli government missiles anyway - it would serve them right if they were sent in the less friendly way.
I am a second generation Brit of Ukranian Jewish extraction living and working in the States the past four years. A part of my large family immigrated from Kiev to Tel Aviv in 1949, and a fraction of that part has thence immigrated from Israel to Birmingham, UK, between 1951-1968.
I am a secular socialist and an internationalist, and I am not moved by the designs of religious or nationalist viewpoints.
I believe it is the right of any legally established national state, such as Israel, to protect its borders and its people against forceful conquest by aggressors, and to hold any territory won against any previous aggression until peace and justice is reestablished through international law.
Since its establishment by international law, the state of Israel has been attacked by the military forces of its regional neighbors many times, and more recently the Israeli people have been subject to repeated threats from Iranian leaders who question Israel’s very right to exist as an independent state.
These historical facts and these present threats to Israel must be considered by all fair minded persons within the international community, as the prospect of Iranian nuclear weapons development is investigated, debated, and resolved.
This is completly hypocritical of Israel to covertly threaten a nation who has been nothing but upfront about their ambitions of building a nuclear power plant. Yet Israel HAS nuclear weapons, yet refuses to disclose this to the IAEA. So lets get this right, we are supposed to believe a nation that lies about the fact that it has nuclear weapons over a country that has been upfront and cooperative with the IAEA about it plans to build a powerplant and not a nuclear weapon???? It’s time to let Israel lay in their own bed. If they have made enemies of all their neighbors it is not America’s responsibility to defend them for this. What good can ever come out of enabling a country that does not respect it’s neighbors, and has always felt an aire of “superiority” over them.
Israel can protect herself according to Vanunu she has over 200 armed nuclear weapons. Its not the job of the US to intervene on Israel’s behalf. Iran doesn’t even have one weapon yet. No one else in the Middle East has nukes. The whole of the Middle East should be disarmed of all weaponry and forced to play nice with one another.
Margaret …. thanks for the States
i still can’t believe that even 1% favor a strike … crazy
“Israel has to do the bidding of the US in order to stay alive. Who else will protect the Jewish state? Germany? France? Our Semitic brethren? Its a bad bargain, but WHAT is the choice????”
yes, definitely france is now on board as much as the US
“I believe it is the right of any legally established national state, such as Israel, to protect its borders and its people against forceful conquest by aggressors, and to hold any territory won against any previous aggression until peace and justice is reestablished through international law.”
jewish briton, do you also believe it is the israelis’ right to have an endless viral growth of illegal settlements in the west bank? or is anything israel does legal by definition, just like the rules for the US?
ah the poor innocent victims, the israelis.
jkhany,
They seemed to have initiated the Six Days War without the US’ nod of approval. Though I’m not an historian on that topic, so I may be wrong there…
isreal needs to be contained & AIPAC thrown out of the USA, no more loans, isreal has never paid 1 cent back to America on 1 single loan. isreal is the worlds 4th largest arms dealer & is acting as a terrorist state expecting the US to save thier azz’s. We the People demand isreal be removed from every US interests & thrown out of the UN. isreal has a $25 mln $ grant from the US to “study” terrorism or How to carpet bomb Pakistan back into the stone age, then the US picks up the bill for rebuilding what isreal has laid to waste. We do not condone supporting a terrorist isreal by US tax $$$
Israel has only to lose one war and its gone. They are outnumbered by arabs even in their own country. Their nuclear weapons are tactical to be used against troop concentrations and/or demonstrate what could happen to Cairo, Damascus… if a war is going badly. Its the great equalizer. They had moments in previous wars where it looked like they would be overwhelmed.
They cannot allow a hostile arab/moslem state possess nukes, as that makes their tactical equalizer into strategic MAD.
Unfortunately, Iran is not Syria or Iraq. They can and will put up a defense and strike back. If they assume the US is involved, they might fire off everything. Use it or lose it.
Iran does not need nuclear weapons or a nuclear program. If they want nuclear powered electricity, they can purchase state-of-the art turn key generation and fuel from France or Russia, even India. They are painting targets on themselves. Playing games with the IAEA doesn’t help, either.
On top of this mess, our neocons are chomping at the bit to do some more gunpoint nation “building”, and Fox News has much of our citizenry convinced Iran deserves a good whoopin. There are so many US forces and ships in the area, something is bound to get hit, even if the Iranians are only targeting Israeli forces, and Cheney wants to bomb Iran even without the “provocation” this would provide.
We have a perfect storm of arrogance, ignorance, and all sorts of weapons with no place to go on the part of the neocons and the idiots running Iran, and desperation on the part of Israel.
Hey Hillary, if it doesn’t go off in the next 14 months, there is a Nobel Peace Prize waiting for the person(s) who sets everything right.
First Iranians are Persian and other enthnicities and not Arabs for all on the board that think Iranians are Arabs (with the exception of the small Iranian Arab minority in Khuzestan) thank you for noting the difference. Second majority of Iranians do not like living under the Ayatollahs and find Ahmedinijad just as crazy and annoying as the rest of the world does.
bbr-001 said: They (Israeli Jews) are outnumbered by arabs even in their own country. I guess you don’t recognize the Israeli Arabs as citizens eh? Well bbr I suppose these are the arabs they couldn’t sucessfully ethnically cleanse as they have been doing so since the expulsion of the Arabs in 1948 and to this day. Save it as people are on to the victim bullshit.
bbr-001 What only Christians and Jews have the rights to nuclear weapons? They’ve done a great job so far just ask the Japanese they’ll give you an earful. By the way a real hostile state that is Muslim has nuclear weapons and is now a dictatorship and is a threat not only to Afghanistan (Pakistan supports the Taliban) and India (Pakistan supports Kashmiri seperatists) but everyone…but no one is paying any attention to Pakistan right now.
“Here, then, is the problem which we present to you, stark and dreadful and inescapable: Shall we put an end to the human race; or shall mankind renounce war? People will not face this alternative because it is so difficult to abolish war… We appeal, as human beings, to human beings: Remember your humanity, and forget the rest. If you can do so, the way lies open to a new Paradise; if you cannot, there lies before you the risk of universal death.”
Excerpted from The Russell-Einstein Manifesto Issued in London, 9 July 1955
http://www.pugwash.org/about/manifesto.htm
Strange that so many of the ‘regulars’ are missing from this stream….Kivals, Starofthesea, Jaded Prole, where are you guys…..did I see DDaniels…but also, Kem-where are you. You guys always have so much to share…
Maelstrom wrote:
Demonstorm,
What a insufferable imbecile you are to generalize about a people you know nothing about…
I’m sorry you played tennis with one?
You ****ing moron.
Maelstrom,
you should be addressing bottle, not Demonstorm. Please be more careful throwing your epithets around.
Maiden:
They recognize a bullshit article when they see one, void of anything new, and which sheds light on nothing. And they aren’t going to get suckered into a debate between, anti-jewish bigots and paranoid zionist racists.
Me neither…I’m outta here.
Ramsay
“Intelligence agencies have begun to vet all foreign postgraduates applying to study sensitive scientific subjects in Britain. The aim is to prevent Iranian students getting expertise in fields related to producing weapons of mass destruction. Sixty Iranians have been refused university places this year”… wtf does that have to do with the fact that ireali airstrikes, backed by usa follow-up may create world war 3 sooner than coillege degrees???
Maiden,
I don’t know where the regulars went. But I find it interesting that my grandfather was drafted to fight against the country his own father was born in. And now we’re at the precipice of what might unravel into WWIII (Bush and the m.i.c. undoubtedly have their fingers crossed).
The big difference, of course, is that we’re aggressor nation now.
Upon reading the title of this article on the CD homepage:
US RELUCTANT TO STRIKE IRAN
BUT ISRAEL ‘DIFFERENT MATTER’
I momentarily thought the US was considering striking Israel as the quoted ‘different matter.’
Good to see such an outpour of comments in such a short time! This evidently proves that the people are scared. And they have every right to be scared. Considering the numerous previous statements made by the Bush adminstration officials, large and small, the US has taken upon itself the defence of Israel. In case of an Israeli attack against Iran and the inevitable Iranian response the US will get involved in the attacks. This is immaterial of the color or the political affiliation of the occupant of the White House. This a Democlese’s sword that hangs upon our heads and will continue until the International community ( if such a thing exists ) solves the Isreael problem and breaks the Israel-US bond. I doubt if this will ever happen and this is what makes the present situation so scarey.
“The Pentagon is reluctant to take military action against Iran, but officials say that Israel is a “different matter”.”
If Israel wants to start a war with Iran, then let THEM deal with the consequences of their stupidity as the U.S. is doing right now after invading Iraq and borrowing from every Tom, Dick and Harry to keep this insanity going.
The citizens of the U.S. are tired of paying taxes to fill the coffers of the “empire mentality” land-grabbers and wealthy war-mongers around this sick and pitiful world.
I’m voting for DENNIS KUCINICH who wants to re-build foreign relations around this so-called “globalized” world where $$profits have been the ONLY concern of both George Bush and the corporate lap-dogs in Congress for the past 6+ years. The majority of them are nothing more than blood-suckers feeding off the majority who are struggling to make ends meet in a plunging economy with high inflation while simultaneously feeding off the elites who support their campaigns to buy legislation.
It was Timothy Leary who coined the phrase: “Educated Savages”; a perfect description of many on Capitol Hill.
Same bullshit article over&over. Same hatefull responses over&over.Sharpen your knives,as you’ll soon be eating each other. Thanks to the economic “new reality”, brought to you by your criminal-elite govt. Stay home:it’s your fault. No country wants you.
Green Green Green
The attack on Iran is set for January 2008
Israel (and its puppet state, America) engage in total hypocrisy every day. Israel has hundreds of nuclear weapons but no one else can have any? America has thousands but invades countries by lying that it WILL get nuclear weapons? Remember two adages in this dangerous and cynical nuclear game: 1)Everyone (nation) sows the seeds of its OWN destruction and 2)he who rides the BACK of the tiger often ends up INSIDE!
“Mr Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be “wiped off the map”.”
Not only does the Times print rubblish like this, it continues to do so when such has been widely pointed out as gross distortion.
Where is the news here? Isreal won’t tolerate any hint, however fictious, of a threat. That has been obvious for decades.
It would be news if any media rightly blamed them for it.
Instead reports like these are supposed to put us on notice for either appeasing Isreal or mopping up after it.
Here’s a radical new concept for cutting-edge journalism: there are no buyers for this crap anymore; even people on the street who dig it are only sellers. It’s universally known to be shit.
Several months ago I had a conversation with my next store neighbors brother-n-law, who is from Iran and now a U.S. citizen. This gentleman explained to me that many Iranian’s including himself and his family love George Bush. (sic) He and his family honestly believe that the Bush administration would help the Iranian people, especially those seeking freedom and democracy inside of Iran. However, he also stated categorically, that the Iranian’s are a peaceful people, and that if the Bush administration does decide to risk an attack on their country, they would unite, and unleash a hell upon America like nothing they’ve ever seen.
I pray there’s no attack. However, If there is one it will most likely be started by Israel.
I can’t believe we’re even discussing this! Any attack on Iran and their people and this country could very well be without enough gasoline to fuel the cars and trucks not to mention those huge gas guzzling SUV’s (sic) that litter our highways. The straits of Hormuz will close.
Are people just now noticing that the NY Times can’t be trusted? I think Chomsky wrote a book detailing that back somewhere around 1983. This ain’t new. What we need to do is to teach as many as we can that they are liars and not to even bother to read them.
Of course, the correct US response to an Israeli attack on Iran would be to say …. ‘that’s nice. have fun because you are on your own. we can use that $5 billion a year or so we give you to fix some bridges over here.’
Or, I guess the really correct response, by the treaties the US had signed would be to haul the Israelis into the Security Council to stop and punish such a breach of the peace.
Instead, the Republicans AND THE DEMOCRATS will launch us into yet another disasterous war for the benefit of some rich companies and at the cost of great amounts of our blood and national treasure.
Are the Iranians who like Bush the same morons who voted for Ahmadinejad?
I guess as Lincoln said, you can fool some of the people.
dcbeltway: Ouch!
I know the Iranians are Persians, the same Persians who fought the wars with ancient Greece. I wrote my little piece too fast. They might as well be Arabs as far as Israeli security is concerned.
What we think of Israel and the heavy hand it uses on the Palestinians is important, but Israel is surrounded and vastly outnumbered by hostile nations and people, and probably would use its nuclear weapons if its survival was at stake. It is a strategy that would be negated if these hostile neighbors also had nukes.
A Christian and Jewish monopoly on nuclear weapons? Already too late for that. Pakistan isn’t on the radar yet because its relatively far from Israel, has a non-islamicist military (for now), has no substantial fossil fuel reserves, and any realistic Pakistani knows the next war with India will result in the end of Pakistan.
It’s maybe worth noting that the article above is from the UK’s ‘The Times’ (online version).
The Times was once a widely respected ‘establishment’ newspaper, but then ‘The Dirty Digger’ (despicable Murdoch) got his blood soaked-hands on it.
I think I detect ’spin’ in this article, - a soft-voicing of Cheney’s ongoing discharge of effluent, as he carries forward his demonic plans to inflict still more harm on the human race.
Here’s a link to another facet of Cheney’s maniacal strategy: http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2208219,00.html
-wherein we read: “Washington tells EU firms: quit Iran now”.
The slimy molluscs leading the UK, Germany and France are each acceding to Cheney’s wishes, ( -it’s simple enough to perform that manoeuvre when one has neither backbone or any shred of morality).
Here’s a clip from the article:
“The US is tightening its economic squeeze on Iran and last month unilaterally imposed a new round of sanctions. It regularly complains in private to the British and other European governments that American efforts are being undermined by European companies continuing to do business with Tehran.
If economic sanctions fail to have an impact by next year, pressure will mount from Mr Cheney to launch air strikes against Iran.”
As usual, the cartoonist Steve Bell has it spot on; when in his latest drawing he pictures Sarkozy as a rat (-I think?) -kissing the foot of that cowardly ape, George WW3 Bush.
View it here at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/archive/0,,1284265,00.html
Iran has every right to develop a nuclear program. Under the non-proliferation treaty that Iran has signed (and which Israel has NOT), they don’t have the right to develop nuclear weapons. The head of the international agency that monitors that treaty has clearly stated that there is no evidence, none, nada, zero, none, that Iran is developing nuclear weapons.
Iran’s oil fields were some of the first to be developed. This dates back to the British empire before World War I when they Royal Navy converted from coal to oil.
Oil fields certainly peak in production and then have production decline with the pumping of oil from them. Since Iran’s were some of the first to be developed, its seems rather likely they are seeing that oil is harder and harder to get from their fields.
The cycle of how oil fields reach peak production and decline is not in any dispute regardless of whether you are a sceptic towards the application of that principle world wide. If you doubt this go to Texas, where they produce maybe 10% of the oil they did at the peak. Once if you struck a pipe into the ground, you created a ‘gusher’ from all the pressure. Now, to get any oil at all they do lots of pumping of oil and steam into the ground to artificially create pressure to get to some of the last oil that’s there.
Even if Iran’s oil fields aren’t declining, any fool can see that oil will be continually worth more in the future as demand continues to grow. There are billions of Indians and Chinese who are just now moving their economies to the point where more and more of them will want cars and use oil. Therefore, it makes a great deal of sense for any country to develop alternative energy sources and save as much oil as possible for the days to come when that oil is much more valuable. Just because the US is run by oilmen seeking a quick buck and is too stupid to do this, that doesn’t mean the Iranians have to make the same mistake.
Enriching uranium does not automatically mean weapon production. Uranium is about 0.6% U-235 in the ground. You need to ‘enrich’ it to 3% to 5% to use it in a nuclear power plant. You need to further ‘enrich’ it to nearly 100% to use it in a nuclear bomb. That is a much harder problem to solve, and for awhile there have been some doubters that the Iranians are getting to even the 3-5% range like they boast. And remember, the head of the agency that inspects them (IAEA) clearly states that there is zero evidence that the Iranians have a nuclear weapons program. That means they’ve never seen any enrichment beyond the 3-5% levels for use in commercial reactors.
Every country has the right to develop its own knowledge and technology. You can’t say that another country must be dependent on others and always import and license technology. Especially when the country has a long history of being treated and abused as a colony by the same others that they are supposed to rely on for technology as basic as providing power to its people.
And just to repeat for emphasis, the head of the IAEA clearly states that there is zero evidence that the Iranians are developing nuclear weapons. Its all bullshit. Its bullshit being used to start another war by the same people who lied about the Iraqis having a nuclear program to start that war. Surely, just five years after being lied to in order to start a disastrous war in Iraq, people must insist that the same proven liars present some hard proof before starting another war that’s has the potential of being a far larger disaster.
The US is in an economic tailspin, the oil is running out, and the sheeple are starting to slowly wake from the grip of the apocalyptic christian death cult… just in time for the psychos to push the BIG BUTTON
Look, don’t take it all too seriously! You must understand that the Israelis have their priority: the setting up of a Super State exclusively for God’s Children.
If they have to burn a few million Iranians to do it, get rid of the Palestinians, thrust the whole world into a WW3, well, so what?
They are fulfilling an ancient dream, one that came from a time when humans were even more primitive and superstitious and bloodthirsty than they are now. You can’t get in the road of those who would fulfill old prophecies.
Don’t be silly!
seeking-utopia.blogspot.com
There’s nothing much that is news here. Just more chest thumping by USrael. Whether it is Israel or the US that bombs Iran, the consequences will be grave for both countries and the world. We can kiss our $96-a-barrel oil goodbye forever, and start looking at $150 a barrel or higher, within DAYS — not months — after the bombs start falling and the people start dying.
“Mr Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be wiped off the map.”
Every commentary on Iran in the pro-Zionist MSM includes this Big Lie. Some of us know that Ahmadinejad didn’t say that, but most Americans are too intellectually lazy to question it. Whether most Americans care if he said it is another matter, but they probably do care, since about half of them are Christian Zionists who believe that Jews are God’s anointed, and all Muslims are terrorists.
Oh yeah, and by the way, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, not Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, controls the Iranian armed forces, and has publicly renounced any attack on Israel. Zionists are not about to reciprocate, since Iran is an obstacle to Israeli expansion.
In case anyone hasn’t read the exact text of Ahmadinejad’s stain remover remarks, here it is:
“We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime [Israel] has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm
The Times Online/UK may or may not belong to the Zionists, but it is obvious that this article is pandering to the US/Israeli ziocons and warmongers by repeating the same nonsense of “wiping out Israel”.
One thing is certain: Israel does not have the capability to destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities; neither does it have the courage to do so. It can, however, initiate an attack to draw the US into the war on the pretext of defending its ally Israel. In other words, since the world opinion is against a US attack on Iran, the US is planning to use its Middle East beachhead, Israel, to enable it to do so.
Sooner or later, Israel will cease to exist as a Jewish-only state, ergo there is no need for nukes.
It’s disturbing that a publication such as the Times UK is perpetuating the dangerous and erroneous myth that Ahmadinejad explicitly called for Israel to be ‘wiped off the map’. Regardless of one’s opinion of Iran’s President, this is a factual howler, and The UK Times (and other MSM) should quit fueling an already raging fire.
The following clarification of Ahmadinejad’s comments is from Project Censored’s ‘Top 25 Censored Stories of 2008′, at: http://projectcensored.org.
Heyzhou
# 24 Media Misquotes Threat From Iran’s President
Sources:
Global Research, January 20, 2007
Title: “Wiped Off The Map—The Rumor of the Century”
Author: Arash Norouzi
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NOR20070120&articleId=4527
Information Clearing House, May 9, 2006
Title: “Full Text: The President of Iran’s Letter To President Bush”
Translated by Le Monde
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12984.htm
Student Researchers: Becky Bazell
Faculty Evaluator: Peter Phillips, Ph.D.
Across the world a media story has spread that Iran’s President Ahmadinejad has threatened to destroy Israel, by saying that, “Israel must be wiped off the map.” Contrary to general belief, this statement was actually a misinterpretation. However, it was the Islamic Republic News Service in Iran that first mistranslated the quote. Iran’s Foreign Minister attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote ended up having a life of its own in the corporate media.
Amid heated wrangling over Iran’s nuclear program and the threat of preemptive strikes by the US, the quote has been continually used to reinforce the idea that Iran is being run by extremists seeking the total destruction of Israel.
So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in Farsi:
“Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.”
Rezhim-e is the word “regime,” pronounced just like the English word with an extra “eh” sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the landmass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad did not even refer to Israel by name, he instead used the specific phrase “rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods” (regime occupying Jerusalem).
A similar statement by Ahmadinejad in December 2006, “As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated,” has also been misinterpreted.
In May of 2006 President Ahmadinejad published an open letter to President Bush clearly asking for peace and the mutual respect of human rights. He warns that Western media, through contrived and deceptive information, has intensified the climate of fear that leads to attacks on innocent peoples. The letter was not reported in the US news media. Ahmadinejad began the letter writing, “Mr. George Bush, For some time now I have been thinking, how one can justify the undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena. Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of God, Feel obliged to respect human rights, Present liberalism as a civilization model, Announce one’s opposition to the proliferation of nuclear weapons and WMDs, Make “War on Terror” his slogan, And finally, Work towards the establishment of a unified international community—a community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day govern, But at the same time, have countries attacked; The lives, reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the slight chance of the … of a … criminals in a village city, or convoy for example the entire village, city or convey set ablaze.”
Evaluator Comment
Ahmadinejad declared that Zionism is the West’s apparatus of political oppression against Muslims. He says the “Zionist regime” was imposed on the Islamic world as a strategic bridgehead to ensure domination of the region and its assets. This position is viewed as threatening to many in the West. While threats and counter-threats escalates tensions in the Persian Gulf, I believe it is important for the media to publish both sides of issues and be as accurate as possible by seeking to build understanding rather than fear and anger.
—Peter Phillips
UPDATE BY Arash Norouzi
In May 2007, the US House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution calling on the U.N. Security Council to charge Ahmadinejad with the crime of inciting genocide “because of his calls for the destruction of the State of Israel”—a violation of the U.N.’s 1948 Genocide Convention—specifically citing the false “wiped off the map” quote from October 2005. It also called for the U.N. to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, with the “potential means to the end of carrying out President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s threats against Israel.”
This misquote has become a key component of the push for war with Iran, a war that would make Iraq look like the cakewalk it was predicted to be. Attacking Iran would result in massive death and destruction, affect world oil supplies, provoke terrorism, could initiate the next World War, and might even include the use of nuclear weapons for the first time since WWII. In this heated atmosphere, an accurate narrative is essential in averting the next cataclysmic Mideast intervention. When President Bush emphasizes the importance of taking the words of America’s enemies seriously, that process begins with first determining just what exactly those words are.
Yet my article is about more than just clarifying a mistranslated statement. It’s about the media, propaganda, plagiarism, language, false assumptions …Functioning much like a puzzle, it engages readers by allowing them to deconstruct the quote and its meaning themselves. This self-verification process adds a compelling aspect in which credibility becomes largely obsolete. The article’s ’punchline’ demonstrates undeniably that members of the mainstream media knowingly spread this rumor, and readers are challenged to check for themselves by comparing linked sources proving this claim.
The idea is not merely to contest a single misquote, but to also promote skepticism about all pre-war intelligence. If this quote is false, then it’s logical to assume that other accusations against Iran could be wrong too—just as they were with Iraq.
The overwhelming ubiquity of this misquote has deterred others from correcting what they probably view as a lost cause. Yet my article alone has been viewed by millions, translated into at least half a dozen languages, garnered radio interviews, inspired videos on YouTube, and become the subject of an entire article in The Bangkok Post. It got the attention of people at the BBC, Washington Post, IAEA, State Department, United Nations, and the Islamic Republic itself. It’s been quoted by numerous journalists, authors and academics, in published letters to the editor, and on call-in TV shows such as on C-SPAN. The Associated Press has now begun citing the “vanish from the page of time” phrase, adding that “independent analysts” have refuted the “map” quote; and Dennis Kucinich was prepared to correct the rumor when asked about the subject on TV recently.
These are hopeful signals that underscore the importance of alternative voices in the media, and their potential effectiveness in influencing the discourse. If the first casualty of war is the truth, then it’s up to the truth tellers—whomever they may be—to enlighten us.
Some one said that Iranians love Bush. Iranians love Bush as much as Bush loves Iranians, which is zilch, nada, nil, zero.
As far as Iranian’s support of Ahmadinejad is concerned, they divide into two groups.
The groups who voted for him no longer favors him because his promised economic policies did not come to fruition.
The groups who are outside Iran, mostly educated, love him simply for his stand against a bully called Bush. It is really the hatred of Bush that has tranformed into love for Ahmadinejad.
Pox Amerikana
If occupied Palestine wants war…give it to them…If they want nuclear war so badly then give it to them; bomb Dimona and be done with these foul apartheid freaks. amerika needs to rout the neo cohens that have infected its body politic, lock up the jinsa aipac whores and necromongers, do a MacCarthy witch hunt for Izzy firsters and pimps that have made a laughing stock of its so called democracy. Close down that 6 headed Mammonite beast of media hydra spewing filth and hate into your living rooms and children’s souls disguised as news or entertainment. Reject the sewer-piped info mush spilling out of Hollyweird propagating the myths of zion and insulting and denegrating the rest of us.
2.5% camped inside but never a part of the mongrel amerikan tribe should not be allowed to dictate nor determine the cultural DNA of a nation as diverse as amerika and certainly should not hold a monopoly on the whores and pimps that they call their political representatives.
The rest of the world would celebrate once again by drinking a coke and eating a burger, even if it makes most of us gag, if you folks could finally purge this black supremacist militarism from your being and the clever globo-tribe that have learned to ride it in the name of their supremacist foreign agenda.
Too easy? Yeah of course because the alpha tribe have you bought and paid for, lock stock, Congress and White House. Everybody knows how clever and powerful those Fiji Islanders have always proven to be and how hard to get them to understand that they are no more chosen and special than the other poor unfortunate bags of skin and bones that have to make it in an unjust and cruel world.
“Like an advance posse, Amerika sent out wicked little Israel to test its weapons and world tolerance for state organised depravity. Amerika by underwriting this Third World military super power has given the apartheid, supremacist state a free hand as the IOF and Mossad scout and scalp in the wasteland of government sponsored international terror much in the same way that white “settlers” who squatted America used renegade tribes to open the frontier in their “conquest” of the “homeland” as the West was “won” through the holocaust of the Native American population. Israel has blazed a trail of anarchy across the last 50 years of world history “conquering new territory” as it rampages through Palestine and is loathed like no other state for its spate of provocative extra-judicial killings, systematic genocide, expulsion of refugees, land grabbing, amassing of nuclear and other WMDs; a rap sheet of crime that no single nation other than the US comes even close to.
Allowed to “fly” amok with its high tech Amerikan weaponry, razing ghettos in the name of peace, murdering in the name of security; this Orwellian state knows no moral boundaries any more than geographic borders. And protected by its weapons purveyor through an unbroken, delinquent chain of UN vetoes by recalcitrant US governments, this rogue state especially under Sharon is the greatest single threat to world peace facing all of us today. This is the true face of terror, organised, righteous and extreme, and it is as at home in the White House as it is in Tel Aviv. Israel and the US have more in common than their radical supremacist Zionists howling for Arab blood and cheap oil. Podhoretz leading his savage war party of long knives in the great frontier tradition of Amerika!”
“Anti-Semitic talk is not about Jews at all: it is the dominant ideology of Pax Americana. A Cuban who talks about anti-Semitism paves the road for the triumphal return of Meyer Lansky’s heirs to his island.” Israel Shamir
The world knows that Israel can only do what the US let’s it do (or tells it to do). The US holds the purse strings on which Israel survives. It should be made clear by Dim candidates that if Israel attacks Iran, their funding may be cut — after all, the neocons have tanked our economy and the money just isn’t there to fund their little Zionist experiment any longer.
The NPT treaty is what governs rights and responsibilities on all uses of nuclear energy. No discussion can be well-informed without knowledge of it. It is only four and a half pages in the PDF version.
The main point: Iran has an inalienable right to enrichment for commercial purposes according to Article 4; Iran has not been found by the IAEA to be in violation of any of its provisions; the United States is in obvious violation of Article 6 by not negotiating in good faith towards nuclear weapons disarmament due to published plans to expand and modernize the US arsenal (See recent QDRs); The US is obligated to help nations with no nuclear weapons to acquire nuclear power for commercial purposes if they go down that path; and Israel, North Korea, Pakistan and India are the only nations of the world who haven’t signed it and possess nuclear weapons outside of the treaty.
No one who has not read the treaty can participate in a sensible, well-informed discussion of this article.
The way the US can help prevent new nations from acquiring nuclear weapons is to abide by the treaty, and therefore encourage the rule of law and rigorous inspections by the IAEA in Iran to prevent violating the NPT. And make the middle East a nuclear-free zone by keeping our own nuclear weapons out of the region and by presuring Israel to join the NPT treaty, and to abide by its provisions to disarm, as we ourselves disarm our own nukes.
Here the link to the treaty:
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Treaties/npt.html
Full text from the PDF:
International Conventions & Agreements
Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT)
Background
The NPT is a landmark international treaty whose objectives are to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and weapons technology, to foster the peaceful uses of nuclear energy, and to further the goal of achieving general and complete disarmament. The Treaty establishes a safeguards system under the responsibility of the IAEA, which also plays a central role under the Treaty in areas of technology transfer for peaceful purposes.
Membership
Date of adoption: 12 June 1968
Place of adoption: United Nations, New York
Date of entry into force: 5 March 1970
Depositary Governments: Russian Federation, United Kingdom, United States
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Infcircs/Others/infcirc140.pdf
TREATY ON THE NON-PROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS
Notification of the entry into force
1. By letters addressed to the Director General on 5, 6 and 20 March 1970 respectively, the
Governments of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the United States of
America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which are designated as the Depositary
Governments in Article IX. 2 of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons,
informed the Agency that the Treaty had entered into force on 5 March 1970.
2. The text of the Treaty, taken from a certified true copy provided by one of the Depositary
Governments, is reproduced below for the convenience of all Members.
______________________________________________________________________
TREATY
ON THE NON-PROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS
The States concluding this Treaty, hereinafter referred to as the “Parties to the Treaty”,
Considering the devastation that would be visited upon all mankind by a nuclear war and the
consequent need to make every effort to avert the danger of such a war and to take measures to
safeguard the security of peoples,
Believing that the proliferation of nuclear weapons would seriously enhance the danger of
nuclear war,
In conformity with resolutions of the United Nations General Assembly calling for the
conclusion of an agreement on the prevention of wider dis semination of nuclear weapons,
Undertaking to co-operate in facilitating the application of International Atomic Energy
Agency safeguards on peaceful nuclear activities,
Expressing their support for research, development and other efforts to further the
application, within the framework of the International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards
system, of the principle of safeguarding effectively the flow of source and special fissionable
materials by use of instruments and other techniques at certain strategic points,
Affirming the principle that the benefits of peaceful applications of nuclear technology,
including any technological by-products which may be derived by nuclear-weapon States from
the development of nuclear explosive devices, should be available for peaceful purposes to all
Parties to the Treaty, whether nuclear-weapon or non-nuclear-weapon States,
Convinced that, in furtherance of this principle, all Parties to the Treaty are entitled to
participate in the fullest possible exchange of scientific information for, and to contribute alone
or in co-operation with other States to, the further development of the applications of atomic
energy for peaceful purposes,
Declaring their intention to achieve at the earliest possible date the cessation of the nuclear
arms race and to undertake effective measures in the direction of nuclear disarmament,
Urging the co-operation of all States in the attainment of this objective,
INFCIRC/140
Recalling the determination expressed by the Parties to the 1963 Treaty banning nuclear
weapon tests in the atmosphere, in outer space and under water in its Preamble to seek to
achieve the discontinuance of all test explosions of nuclear weapons for all time and to continue
negotiations to this end,
Desiring to further the easing of international tension and the strengthening of trust between
States in order to facilitate the cessation of the manufacture of nuclear weapons, the liquidation
of all their existing stockpiles, and the elimination from national arsenals of nuclear weapons
and the means of their delivery pursuant to a Treaty on general and complete disarmament
under strict and effective international control,
Recalling that, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, States must refrain in
their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or
political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the
United Nations, and that the establishment and maintenance of international peace and security
are to be promoted with the least diversion for armaments of the world’s human and economic
resources,
Have agreed as follows:
ARTICLE I
Each nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to transfer to any recipient
whatsoever nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or control over such weapons or
explosive devices directly, or indirectly; and not in any way to assist, encourage, or induce any
non-nuclear-weapon State to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other
nuclear explosive devices, or control over such weapons or explosive devices.
ARTICLE II
Each non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to receive the transfer
from any transferor whatsoever of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or of
control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly; not to manufacture or
otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices; and not to seek or
receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive
devices.
ARTICLE III
1. Each Non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes to accept safeguards, as
set forth in an agreement to be negotiated and concluded with the International Atomic Energy
Agency in accordance with the Statute of the International Atomic Energy Agency and the
Agency’s safeguards system, for the exclusive purpose of verification of the fulfilment of its
obligations assumed under this Treaty with a view to preventing diversion of nuclear energy
from peaceful uses to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices. Procedures for the
safeguards required by this Article shall be followed with respect to source or special
fissionable material whether it is being produced, processed or used in any principal nuclear
facility or is outside any such facility. The safeguards required by this Article shall be applied
on all source or special fissionable material in all peaceful nuclear activities within the territory
of such State, under its jurisdiction, or carried out under its control anywhere.
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INFCIRC/140
2. Each State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to provide: (a) source or special fissionable
material, or (b) equipment or material especially designed or prepared for the processing, use or
production of special fissionable material, to any non-nuclear-weapon State for peaceful
purposes, unless the source or special fissionable material shall be subject to the safeguards
required by this Article.
3. The safeguards required by this Article shall be implemented in a manner designed to
comply with Article IV of this Treaty, and to avoid hampering the economic or technological
development of the Parties or international co-operation in the field of peaceful nuclear
activities, including the international exchange of nuclear material and equipment for the
processing, use or production of nuclear material for peaceful purposes in accordance with the
provisions of this Article and the principle of safeguarding set forth in the Preamble of the
Treaty.
4. Non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty shall conclude agreements with the
International Atomic Energy Agency to meet the requirements of this Article either individually
or together with other States in accordance with the Statute of the International Atomic Energy
Agency. Negotiation of such agreements shall commence within 180 days from the original
entry into force of this Treaty. For States depositing their instruments of ratification or
accession after the 180-day period, negotiation of such agreements shall commence not later
than the date of such deposit. Such agreements shall enter into force not later than eighteen
months after the date of initiation of negotiations.
ARTICLE IV
1. Nothing in this Treaty shall be interpreted as affecting the inalienable right of all the
Parties to the Treaty to develop research, production and use of nuclear energy for peaceful
purposes without discrimination and in conformity with Articles I and II of this Treaty.
2. All the Parties to the Treaty undertake to facilitate, and have the right to participate in. the
fullest possible exchange of equipment, materials and scientific and technological information
for the peaceful uses of nuclear energy. Parties to the Treaty in a position to do so shall also cooperate
in contributing alone or together with other States or international organizations to the
further development of the applications of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, especially in
the territories of non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty, with due consideration for the
needs of the developing areas of the world.
ARTICLE V
Each Party to the Treaty undertakes to take appropriate measures to ensure that, in
accordance with this Treaty, under appropriate international observation and through
appropriate international procedures, potential benefits from any peaceful applications of
nuclear explosions will be made available to non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty on a
non-discriminatory basis and that the charge to such Parties for the explosive devices used will
be as low as possible and exclude any charge for research and development. Non-nuclearweapon
States Party to the Treaty shall be able to obtain such benefits, pursuant to a special
international agreement or agreements, through an appropriate international body with adequate
representation of non-nuclear-weapon States. Negotiations on this subject shall commence as
soon as possible after the Treaty enters into force. Non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the
Treaty so desiring may also obtain such benefits pursuant to bilateral agreements.
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INFCIRC/140
ARTICLE VI
Each of the Parties to the Treaty undertakes to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective
measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear
disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective
international control.
ARTICLE VII
Nothing in this Treaty affects the right of any group of States to conclude regional treaties in
order to assure the total absence of nuclear weapons in their respective territories.
ARTICLE VIII
1. Any Party to the Treaty may propose amendments to this Treaty. The text of any
proposed amendment shall be submitted to the Depositary Governments which shall circulate it
to all Parties to the Treaty. Thereupon, if requested to do so by one-third or more of the Parties
to the Treaty, the Depositary Governments shall convene a conference, to which they shall
invite all the Parties to the Treaty, to consider such an amendment.
2. Any amendment to this Treaty must be approved by a majority of the votes of all the
Parties to the Treaty, including the votes of all nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty and all
other Parties which, on the date the amendment is circulated, are members of the Board of
Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency. The amendment shall enter into force
for each Party that deposits its instrument of ratification of the amendment upon the deposit of
such instruments of ratification by a majority of all the Parties, including the instruments of
ratification of all nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty and all other Parties which, on the
date the amendment is circulated, are members of the Board of Governors of the International
Atomic Energy Agency. Thereafter, it shall enter into force for any other Party upon the deposit
of its instrument of ratification of the amendment.
3. Five years after the entry into force of this Treaty, a conference of Parties to the Treaty
shall be held in Geneva, Switzerland, in order to review the operation of this Treaty with a view
to assuring that the purposes of the Preamble and the provisions of the Treaty are being realised.
At intervals of five years thereafter. a majority of the Parties to the Treaty may obtain, by
submitting a proposal to this effect to the Depositary Governments, the convening of further
conferences with the same objective of reviewing the operation of the Treaty.
ARTICLE IX
1. This Treaty shall be open to all States for signature. Any State which does not sign the
Treaty before its entry into force in accordance with paragraph 3 of this Article may accede to it
at any time.
2. This Treaty shall be subject to ratification by signatory States. Instruments of ratification
and instruments of accession shall be deposited with the Governments of the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the United
States of America, which are hereby designated the Depositary Governments.
3. This Treaty shall enter into force after its ratification by the States, the Governments of
which are designated Depositaries of the Treaty, and forty other States signatory to this Treaty
and the deposit of their instruments of ratification. For the purposes of this Treaty, a nuclearweapon
State is one which has manufactured and exploded a nuclear weapon or other nuclear
explosive device prior to 1 January, 1967.
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INFCIRC/140
4. For States whose instruments of ratification or accession are deposited subsequent to the
entry into force of this Treaty, it shall enter into force on the date of the deposit of their
instruments of ratification or accession.
5. The Depositary Governments shall promptly inform all signatory and acceding States of
the date of each signature, the date of deposit of each instrument of ratification or of accession,
the date of the entry into force of this Treaty, and the date of receipt of any requests for
convening a conference or other notices.
6. This Treaty shall be registered by the Depositary Governments pursuant to Article 102 of
the Charter of the United Nations.
ARTICLE X
1. Each Party shall in exercising its national sovereignty have the right to withdraw from the
Treaty if it decides that extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have
jeopardized the supreme interests of its country. It shall give notice of such withdrawal to all
other Parties to the Treaty and to the United Nations Security Council three months in advance.
Such notice shall include a statement of the extraordinary events it regards as having
jeopardized its supreme interests.
2. Twenty-five years after the entry into force of the Treaty, a conference shall be convened
to decide whether the Treaty shall continue in force indefinitely, or shall be extended for an
additional fixed period or periods. This decision shall be taken by a majority of the Parties to the
Treaty.
ARTICLE XI
This Treaty, the English, Russian, French, Spanish and Chinese texts of which are equally
authentic, shall be deposited in the archives of the Depositary Governments. Duly certified
copies of this Treaty shall be transmitted by the Depositary Governments to the Governments of
the signatory and acceding States.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF the undersigned, duly authorised, have signed this Treaty.
DONE in triplicate, at the cities of London, Moscow and Washington, the first day of July,
one thousand nine hundred and sixty-eight.
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http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Infcircs/Others/infcirc140.pdf
“The authors of this article repeat that Amadinejad said he wants Israel “wiped off the map”, something he did not say. What he did say is that he wished that Israel would eventually disappear.”
The authors, gratuitously and in furtherance of this propagandistic-lie, threw-in: “Mr Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be “wiped off the map.” This is the most opportunistic & repeated lie of the decade. However, you just inadvertently muddied-the-water further, in your-above.
Whenever/wherever you hear this ‘canard’ (and to whoever you hear it from), CORRECT it, properly… What he did say was in the form of a quote, of Khomeini, years-before — which translates to the Ayatollah’s hope/observation that, someday: “The Regime, currently in Jerusalem (sic), will someday vanish from the Pages of Time”.
Of course, what was intended by that statement, initially or in Ahminjad’s-quotation of it, was the wish/hope that the then-and-current apartheid-regime in Israel (the ‘Hawks/neo-Cons/Likudniks’, if you will) will someday be replaced by a more-humane government — one more observant of the Rights of non-Jews within/neighboring Israel.
[BTW, the quote is relatively innocuous and non-critical, particularly when considering MANY far more radical and threatening quotes from various Israeli-leaders regards the ‘regimes in Iran’ and/or Israeli-quotes of direct/onerou