Senate Repudiates MoveOn Ad, Obama Misses Vote
The Senate voted on Thursday to repudiate an ad from MoveOn.org that referred to Gen. David Petraeus as “General Betray Us.” Democratic presidential front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) opposed the measure, while her closest competitor, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), missed the vote.
The Senate approved a resolution condemning the ad and all attacks on members of the military by 72-25.
“This amendment was an opportunity for every senator to declare with not only their voices but also with their votes that they fully support our troops and our commanding general in Iraq,” said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), the sponsor of the measure. “For MoveOn.org and their left-wing allies to brand General Petraeus a traitor and a liar crossed a historic line of decency. It was a despicable political attack by a radical left-wing interest group.”
Prior to the vote, President Bush also condemned the ad and criticized Democrats for not opposing it more vocally. Bush, when asked about the ad during a White House press conference, called it “disgusting.”
He added that the lack of Democratic outrage over the ad has led him to conclude that “most Democrats are afraid of irritating a left-wing group like MoveOn.org.”
Despite Bush’s criticism, the Democratic presidential candidates present for the vote, Clinton and Sen. Chris Dodd (Conn.), opposed the resolution.
“It is a sad day in the Senate when we spend hours debating an ad while our young people are dying in Iraq,” Dodd said. “Now that the Senate has twice voted on this ad, it is time to move on and vote to end the war.”
Sen. Joseph Biden (D-Del.) was not present for any of the votes, while Obama voted earlier in the day but left for an event in Atlanta.
MoveOn.org reacted to Bush’s statement with an attack of its own.
“What’s disgusting is that the president has more interest in political attacks than developing an exit strategy to get our troops out of Iraq and end this awful war,” said Eli Pariser, the executive director of MoveOn.org’s Political Action Committee.
Democrats Voting to Condemn MoveOn.org
Baucus (D-MT), Bayh (D-IN), Cardin (D-MD), Carper (D-DE), Casey (D-PA), Conrad (D-ND), Dorgan (D-ND), Feinstein (D-CA), Johnson (D-SD), Klobuchar (D-MN), Kohl (D-WI), Landrieu (D-LA), Leahy (D-VT), Lincoln (D-AR), McCaskill (D-MO), Mikulski (D-MD), Nelson (D-FL), Nelson (D-NE), Pryor (D-AR), Salazar (D-CO), Tester (D-MT), Webb (D-VA)
Demsocrats Who Voted ‘No’
Akaka (D-HI) Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Brown (D-OH), Byrd (D-WV), Clinton (D-NY), Dodd (D-CT), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Harkin (D-IA), Inouye (D-HI), Kennedy (D-MA), Kerry (D-MA), Lautenberg (D-NJ), Levin (D-MI), Menendez (D-NJ), Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Reid (D-NV), Rockefeller (D-WV), Sanders (I-VT), Schumer (D-NY), Stabenow (D-MI), Whitehouse (D-RI), Wyden (D-OR)
Democrats Not Voting
Biden (D-DE), Cantwell (D-WA), Obama (D-IL)
© 2007 Capitol Hill Publishing Corp
Incredible
Ack!
What a stupid waste of time
and at the same time a telling action about the “reality” in our government.
No repudiation of the pres or vice pres, no movement on impeachment for all the overreach of power, no condemnation of even anything important (of which I could go on for pages and pages).
This is telling us that we “the people” are not to make any point of criticism against “them” the people in charge.
Time for sumpin’ different, folks?
Ack, again.
well, i’m sort of glad to see that murray and cantwell didnt add their names to the roll call of flat out stupid - but holy cow…
I can only quote the final words of Leaflet 4 of the White Rose, a non-violent resistance movement in Munich, Germany during 1942-43:
“We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no peace.”
And you can bet your sweet bippy that these chickens**t Senators are not gonna get any peace from this Viet Nam combat vet.
Iraq has become a singularity, sucking the life from anything that comes near it.
So when can we expect a resolution condemning Karl Rove for his vicious smears of the patriotism of liberals? Oops, sorry, I forgot. There’s always the off chance that acknowledging that I am just as much a real American as anyone else born or assimilated into the good old U.S. of A could alienate a few swing voters.
The politicans are disgusting.
No money to these people from me:
Baucus (D-MT), Bayh (D-IN), Cardin (D-MD), Carper (D-DE), Casey (D-PA), Conrad (D-ND), Dorgan (D-ND), Feinstein (D-CA), Johnson (D-SD), Klobuchar (D-MN), Kohl (D-WI), Landrieu (D-LA), Leahy (D-VT), Lincoln (D-AR), McCaskill (D-MO), Mikulski (D-MD), Nelson (D-FL), Nelson (D-NE), Pryor (D-AR), Salazar (D-CO), Tester (D-MT), Webb (D-VA)
And don’t phone my home Casey! You are not welcome there.
What a bunch of ding-dongs and a waste of taxpayer money…why am I not surprised??? This Congress is a pathetic bunch of ninnies. Last time I checked the Constitution…freedom of speech was still there ???
“This amendment was an opportunity for every senator to declare with not only their voices but also with their votes that they fully support free speech, tolerance of dissent and upholding the constitution,” said one reality-based Senator, who asked to be unnamed for fear of repudiation.
For the U.S. Government to base its foreign policies on the hyped and biased sound bites of an obvious traitor and liar, is business as usual and is not in the least wise threatened by allowing token opposition groups to spout the truth while helping to fund the neocon lapdog press with their advertising dollars.
For the Senate to repudiate a pointless protest ad with a pointless and toothless resolution has a certain poetic justice to it.
“Doo Doo Doo ‘n Dah Dah Dah ’sall I want to say to you.” — The Police
It’s absolutely disgusting for our government to vote to condemn us dissenting American citizens.
If you look at the average contribution for MoveOn’s fund drives, you’ll find it anywhere between $40 - $60 per contributor – a true grassroots movement.
Any political ad is going to contain an opinionated position – conservative or liberal. This is our right! If poor Petraeus can’t stand the heat, he should get out of the BushCheneyCo hellfires.
Poets priests and politicians
Have words to thank for their positions
Words that scream for your submission
And no-one’s jamming their transmission
‘Cos when their eloquence escapes you
Their logic ties you up and rapes you
De do do do de da da da
Is all I want to say to you
De do do do de da da da
Their innocence will pull me through
De do do do de da da da
Is all I want to say to you
De do do do de da da da
They’re meaningless and all that’s true
I’m very thankful to see my Senator on the list of NO votes. As soon as I log off, I’m sending him an e-mail to tell him how thankful I am that he retains his sanity, and thanking him with for his NO vote on this issue. Hope everyone else does the same with their Senators.
Hopefully those who voted YES will hear loud and clear what those who voted them into office think about their YES vote.
You can criticise ANYONE in the US except the military– its a sick fetish we have…
I’m surprised Leahy supported it. Shocked actually. You would think that the democratic chair of the judiciary committee from Vermont would have a greater tolerance for dissenting opinion and free speech.
What’s that Doors’ song (the one from Apocalypse Now)…”This is the end…this is the end…”
Repudiation from the likes of these lice is a badge of honor.
Petraeus has lain down with low-lifes and woke up a ‘lice’.
Why am I not surprised my Senator from Florida voted yes? I’d email him but by now he probably has my email addy blocked LOL
The psuedo-president in office is the one the one who is disgusting, as are all the people that voted in favor of this amendment; may they lose their next elections! Move-on has every right in the world to attack this stupid farce staged to prolong an illegal occupation whose only purpose is to privatize Iraqi industry and kill it’s people.
I play that song every single day, just to stay completely focused on exactly where we are in time and … why.
Spike - I guess that’s true.
The ad must have hit pretty close to the mark to stir such a reaction.
Well, no surprise on the “Democrats” who voted for the measure.
Feinstein has moved increasingly to the right. She’s be sidling up to Lieberman soon. Remember, her husband got a $50 Million contract to fix the electricity in Iraq several years back. (efficient, isn’t he?)
And what can I say about coy Little Miss Mary Landrieu that she hasn’t uttered herself? Everyone must remember her gushing to Anderson Cooper about how wonderful “Mr. President” was during the Katrina disaster. I was waiting for her to break into a breathy Marilyn Monroe song to Bush.
But it’s all good. Now, we all know who is a Republican in drag, and fight against their reelection
If our troops are over there “fighting for our freedom”, why is anyone disagreeing with the powers that be labeled a traitor? Why is that more-military-than-thou McCain isasking MoveOn.org to leave the country? They are Americans. They have rights, don’t they? Or are they only defending the freedoms of a certain mind-set?
So America is now a place where simply wearing a uniform makes one immune to criticism.
That’s the most anti-American thing I’ve heard. The very basic concept of America is that we are equal. The very basic thing of America is that we don’t have different classes or an aristocracy. The very basic thing of America is that if you think a King or a President or a General is lying, you are free to say so.
What this tells me is that the United States Senate is very anti-American. This whole bunch would have sided with King George in 1776 in the same way they all always side with King George in 2007.
PS … and as usual Obama shows his true colors by refusing to stand up for freedom in America. Just another piece of corporate-backed scum who can’t be counted on to defend anyone except his contributors.
I hope MoveOn has enough sense not to ever give a dime to every Senator who failed to vote No on this. Hey MoveOn, its time to start funding Green Party candidates in these races. See what your support of Democrats for all these years has gotten you?
Good ol “we’ll show you the way” Webb?!!!
When they gonna vote for condemnation against the swift boat attack ads? Oh well, little late for that.
We call him Betray Us Maximus in our house.
I am so sick of trying to convince my elected Representatives to do the right thing.
I say throw the bums out!
(1) point .. for W
(3789) points .. against (as of Wednesday) + their families and friends, the wounded, all Americans, etceteras
Plus countless Iraqis and others.
General Petraeus is the reincarnation of Heinrich Himmler.
This vote in the Senate is not only disgraceful but an assault on our freedoms in America to dissent from the insane
saber-rattling. Watch these spineless Democrats who voted for criticizing MoveOn give Bush the billions that he wants
to prolong this Occupation. This has nothing to do with the name-calling of “Left” that these corrupt politicians assign
to decent Americans. They should be ashamed of themselves. They are the real traitors.
As of course we all know, the foreign policy of the United States is handed to the president by God up above, so that makes every little last lamb who joins our military an angel in seraphim, fighting for truth justice & the American way, who would never but never go to some foreign country to accidentally massacre women & children unless that country was tonight at 11 going to attack the wondrous perfection that is the good old US of A.
They’ve just guaranteed that Move On will get lots of contributions. Just sent another contrib. myself. I am shocked that Casey voted for this pointless measure. He’s lost my confidence and my vote. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice…
The Bush Administration lied to get us into this war and they will lie to keep us their. As will anyone who is under the the jurisdiction of the Administration. There are no free thinkers in the Bush Administration. Anyone who would dare oppose the inept and disgraceful war strategy that is in place has already left. And, with the cowardly congress and senate letting it all happen we will never be out of Iraq and the death toll, already obscene, will climb higher while the politicians debate tv adds. Here is my final thought: Q: To what end shall go their deceit? A: There is no end.
I’m pretty new to this whole leftwing internet blogging situation. However, this tells me that I now must start supporting moveon.org, in addition to my other blogging sites.
And I must send my thanks to the brave heroes of moveon.org for not being afraid to speak out against this vile arms dealing pimp of the bush cartel.
What a usless bunch of slugs. What has happened to free speech and ideas. If you diagree with this present adminisration you automatically get branded by those illustrious Politicians in Congress. WAKE UP EVERYONE
The text of the First Amendment to the US Constitution is:
“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ”
seig heil
Freedom of Speech.
LOL, another perfect example of America’s “free, open and democratic society.” Rather than carry out the wishes of the majority by withdrawing from Iraq, the regime goes on to officially denounce those outside of the government who have tried to represent the demands of the majority. Washington is only a ‘democracy’ for the rich.
Being outraged at this meaningless resolution, and at the Democratic senators who voted Yes for whatever reasons, is as silly as the resolution itself.
After all, as Lakoff pointed out, it doesn’t hurt to have “General Betray Us” swirling around in the media cesspool and flushing through the collective daydream.
I mean, it’s nonsense, isn’t it, kind of a sixth-grade schoolyard taunt. But just the kind of nonsense that sticks in people’s minds, like the nonsense TV commercial makers use so effectively to sell us soap products.
So, this resolution itself backfires on the people who sponsored it - all the more so for having passed (so it gets reported more). Maybe we should be thanking Leahy, Feinstein & Co. for their shrewdness.
And no, MoveOn shouldn’t give money to Greens any more than they should burn it in symbolic protest. They should keep on playing hardball, real-world politics.
This is the third time that Casey has voted with George Bush on important items.
1. Our idiot in Chief can go to war with Iran without consulting Congress. AIPAC vote no doubt.
2. It’s O.K. to listen to our phone calls, intercept our e-mails and make sure the Phone companies are not held libel.
That should be two.
3. Today’s vote on the Gen Betrayous adv.
Casey is a pure and simple idiot. What the hell he is doing is surely unkown to me. I called his office on the tapping vote and was told he was protecting us against that attack that Sen Lott and company say was coming.
Guess that’s four stikes you out. But we have to wait four more years.
First, Gen Betrayous wrote a column for the Washington Post just before the 2004 election backing Bush. This a so-called military man which is not to get involved in elections and politics. Second, he lie like hell to Congress on the numbers which leads me to believe he betrayed us.
So Gen. Betrayous it is.
Also when the hell are we in this country going to stop this praise and pray service for the military. They are killers, nothing else, nothing more. I’m sorry for most because they have no other chance for a job in this country but since when does that give anyone and I mean anyone the right to kill women children and civilians.
I just sent Move on a donation. I am appalled at these people who do not believe in free speech. Any Senator who voted for this resolution should be voted out of office. I refuse to be quiet and give up my freedom of speech. Shame on them.
McCain said Move.on should leave the US.
What Bush is afraid of is now people will say:
Bush betrayed us..
so say Bush betrayed us when you can
Bush betrayed us on 9/11 in New Orleans, in Iraq etc.
I’ll leave it to you all to make your own list of how Bush betrayed America…so many choices…where to begin…
Moveon.Org - do you now see why it is CRITICAL that you completely disconnect from the Democrats and support a third political party?? For the Senate to vote on an ad, give me a f&#$ing break! I would hate to see the expressions on the faces of the Founders of this country. I will bet they are rolling in their graves right now.
“Incredible” is hardly strong enough. It isn’t even enough to say that Bush (or Cheney/Bush) betrayed us; they and their whole neo-con clan have been treasonous, and the offenses are continuing to mount. In the meantime, the folks inside the DC Beltway continue to go along, unaware (or uncaring) that the country is falling apart as we succumb to the greed of the corporatizers who don’t seem to give a hoot as long as they get their m(b)illions - - the future be damned. Sad to say, I am beginning to come to the conclusion that the Democrats are little better than that other bunch As someone else has opined, maybe it’s time for all the Progressive groups to band together and form a Populist Party to throw all the rescals out and get this country back on the road to respectability with a foreign policy that works for peace and understanding among ALL nations instead of trying to outdo Pax Romana.
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? WHAT PART OF “FREE SPEECH” DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND. I AM EMBARRASSED AND ASHAMED OF DIANE FIENSTEIN. IF SHE WANTS TO BE A REPULBICAN LET HER BE ONE AND QUIT TRYING TO FOOL THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA. I’M SO TIRED OF HER STILL POSTURE AND PHONEY FROZEN SMILE THAT I COULD PUKE. BESIDES THAT MOVE ON’S AD ASKED A QUESTION, PURE AND SIMPLE. “GENERAL PAETRAEUS OR GENERAL BETRAY US?” NOW IS IT SO THAT WE DO NOT EVEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK A SIMPLE QUESTION. THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA BETTER WAKE UP AND SEE DIANE FIENSTEN FOR THE WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING THAT SHE IS AND LET HER KNOW THAT SHE IS AS DISPENSABLE AS THE REST AND IF SHE WANTS TO SEE A RISING OF THE MASSES OF CALIFORNIA, LET HER CONTINUE HER LOCK STEP MARCH WITH THE REPUBLICANS AND GEORGE W. I NEVER LIKED HER AND I KEEP LIKING HER EVEN LESS.
So much for Jim Webb and all his big talk following the election. What a complete waste of time. I mean what the f**k, the MoveOn add was not all that bad, and the General did betray us, so what’s the beef. For the spineless Democrats to jump on this particular Republican band wagon, considering the recent Repug filibusters is particularly disgraceful!
Well, lets condemn Bush directly, no need to dwell on his starry water-boy.
Bush screwed up.
Starting the was a screwup, pushed through on lies and fear.
The way the occupation was run was negligent, a huge screwup, in part intentional.
The neglect and abuse of the troops is a massive screwup.
The lack of concern for the civilians of Iraq is criminal. Hundreds of thousands dead from this military “enterprise”. Far beyond screwup.
The use of military staff to get political mileage is grotesque.
Bush. You screwed up everything. Any smirks for us?
The Dorgan, Feinstein and Leahy votes are particularly disappointing. Webb and Tester: understandable and no surprise. The rest: a slangue word for a female anatomical part occurs to me. That precious time was spent on this in the first place: reprehensible. To conclude that a “yea” vote is anti-free speech is nonesense. Speech is subject to criticism and critics are free to speak.
This my first attempt to communicate my disgust and anger about the current subject. The reason for my rancour is Senator Klobuchar from MN who voted against MoveON. I would have thought that the Demos had more important work to do than this. Senator Klobuchar has with this vote, she also voted for the famous extension a few weeks back, again shown her lack of knowing what her constituency is conveying to her. We Have Had Enough of The Bush War; and all we get is this! Oh where , oh where, has our little Amy gone, Oh where , oh where can she be? She is eating at the trough of the Bushites. Please forgive these poor chose of words, but I am mad. angry. upset, etc.
My post to Sen. Betrayed Us Leahey:
SIR:
YOU AND 20 OTHER SO-CALLED DEMOCRATS HAVE LOST YOUR WAY, PANDERING RATHER THAN FIGHTING BACK AT THIS ORCHESTRATED RIGHT-WING ATTACK AGAINST ALL DEMOCRATS. IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS WHY THIS VOTE WAS A TRAP, I THINK RETIREMENT WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO. I PRINTED OUT THE LIST OF TRAITORS FOR SPECIAL DISDAIN AND WILL FINANCIALLY SUPPORT ANY REPUBLICAN WHO RUNS AGAINST ANY OF YOU. BRINGING DOWN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS NOW MY GOAL BECAUSE WHILE REPUBLICANS ARE DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY, DEMOCRATS LIKE YOU ARE DUPLICITOUS BESIDES DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY. IT’S OK FOR OUR TROOPS TO FIGHT ON TO STEAL OIL, BUT NOT FOR YOU TO FIGHT TO STOP THIS ILLEGAL WAR.
YOURS IN DISGUST,
dci
And I mean it.
dci
OVER ONE MILLION PEOPLE MURDERED IN IRAQ
http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78
September 2007 - More than 1,000,000 Iraqis murdered
“In the week in which General Patraeus reports back to US Congress on the impact the recent ‘surge’ is having in Iraq, a new poll reveals that more than 1,000,000 Iraqi citizens have been murdered since the invasion took place in 2003.”
This is not about right or wrong or good government; as usual it’s about power, profit, and greed.
Since republican concern about morality applies only to other people’s sex lives, it’s not surprising that they play to win.
We’ve become an amoral, godless nation, not withstanding a lot of contadictory hot air.
The american dream is dead; but, I guess, profits are still good enough for many.
I’m old enough to remember when there were some republicans in congress who were actually patriotic and did some degree of public service. Not a damn one now; and not enough on the democratic side.
(comments from the Titanic)
Our Iraq policy is aimed at forcibly controlling the removal of their oil by American companies, and setting up forward bases for our troops where we think they need to be, regardless of national boundaries and sovereignty. And we want a government in Iraq that will consistently cooperate with whatever we want. That is General Petraeus’ mission, and he’s doing a great job of it. Maybe with another 20 years and 10 trillion dollars or so, and the loss of another 10,000–20,000 US troops, he can get it done. What’s wrong? Does somebody think we should have a different policy?
Congress seems to be forgetting who trashed
The US Constitution
The Bill Of Rights
The Geneva Convention and
Started an illegal war on lies
thus destroying a country, and causing the deaths
of far more than Saddam Hussein.
Talk about betrayal. It certainly isn’t MoveOnOrg.
I don’t know what game Congress and the Administration
are playing, but every second is another death, and a
threat to International Security.
What would the founders of our country do with these
liars and game players?
You said it!
Golly gee. Looks like Petraeus is real popular with our Senate. Unfortunately our Senate wouldn’t get a 25% approval rating from the folks they’re supposed to be representing. Bush and Congress are rated only slightly lower than whale feces.
Time to contribute to Move-On. Making a donation seems like a reasonable action to take to let them know we are behind them and we support free speech.
http://www.moveon.org
Garbage 46, radioactive I presume, are you a full blooded storm trooper or do you belong the “Terminator’s” muscular buttocks wing of the GOP, the USA’s official fascist part? In either case, happy fake gay wedding day in the White House with W and the “Terminator” as long as W’s momma’s money don’t run out paying for that pretty white dress and getting Pat Robertson to be the “lovely flower girl” at the wedding.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2007/09/moveonorg_takes_multiple_hits.html
” Roughly 70 senators do not support MoveOn as a political organization, but more importantly about the same number reject the group’s core mission: ending the Iraq war as quickly as possible.
And when MoveOn is backed into a political - and legislative corner - it only has about 25 Democrats it can count on to lend any support.
Regardless of the group’s senatorial support, it has not backed down on the controversial ad. A link to the ad, which appeared in the New York Times, remains on the home page. In addition, the group’s home page is currently blasting a headline attacking the Cornyn and Boxer resolutions, saying, “The U.S. Senate just told you to sit down and be quiet.” It links to an online petition trying to keep pressure on the Senate over the war.”
ONLINE PETITION FOR MOVE.ON
http://pol.moveon.org/fightback/
“I will not be quiet, I will fight back, and I will keep speaking out until Congress forces an exit plan for this awful war.”
How long before they declare grassroots groups like Moveon.org
as terrorist organizations?
What will it take? An attack on Iran and then a move to silence
any and all dissent?
When that day comes I will not longer post on these boards. It will
be time to take more assertive action because the last stand for
freedom and liberty will have begun.
It is more noble to die fighting for freedom and liberty than to live
in the chains of tyranny.
“If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. …
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure.”
Thomas Jefferson
That’s more than twice that Minnesota’s Klobuchar has voted with the neocons (FISA vote also).
With Democrats like that, who needs Republicans?
Funny thing is that an attack on the First Amendment is an attack on our freedoms. Looks like the list of terrorists just got larger.
To my Senator who tripped all over himself to show his lack of spine:
We honor the men and women who serve in the military. However, just because someone is wearing the uniform with lots of medals does not insure that they speak the truth nor that they speak freely. I stand behind my right to free speech. Whose rights are you defending?
I called both my senators office’s this morning and told them what I thought of this crummy vote. To me it is a clear violation of the 1st amendment. Following along after the recent tasering of the Univerity of Florida student it is absolutely frightening to see our constitutional rights being so blatantly denied!
Both parties I talked to were very quiet when I mentioned the 1st amendment issue. Whether it is a group or an individual - freedom of speech is what we Americans are all about. This issue, and maybe the draft as well, ought to be the hot buttomn to get everyone out of their chairs and into the streets!
You would think the Senate would be able to make time for the more important issues of the day - getting out of Iraq, insurance coverage for children, tax reform, tighter corporate control. But no, they act like they’re on vacation!
Well, everyone who voted for this resolution should be voted out of office at the next election for not honoring our freedom of speech. As if there was nothing more important to do than condemn a newspaper ad!
Ironically, they may have given a boost to MoveOn with all the publicity they have given them. The traitors have shown their colors now.
DON’T DARE CRITICIZE THE MILITARY.
“Dear Senator Klobuchar,
I’ve been a lifelong Minnesotan and I’m greatly troubled with your voting alongside the Republicans on both expanding the FISA program and on the exercising of the First Amendment by the organization Moveon.org.
If the goal of terrorists is to curtail our freedoms, our privacy, and civil liberties, don’t let them win. Now is the time for true national debate, and a true opposition to Bush’s disastrous policies. Courage.
If not oil, what exactly are our troops supposed to be fighting over in Iraq? To preserve our freedoms in some convoluted way? Let’s start with the First Amendment. I’m terribly disappointed with your vote. It smacks of creeping fascism.”
Why is the Senate wasting time trashing those who are courageous enough to say what has to be said about the horror that is Iraq.
Too bad Sen. Feinstein is not up for re-election this year.
Sen Fienstien, wasn’t she the bad witch who gave out all those TWINKIS to Dan White guess she’s still doing it!
I just wrote my senator, Dianne Feinstein, and blasted her for her vote on this issue, and I suggest everyone whose senator(s) voted to condemn MoveOn do likewise, vociferously and with no small degree of outrage. I cannot believe Dianne did this, but I am not letting it pass without an outraged comment from me. Disgusting, outrageous and not to be borne in silence.
methinks they doth protest too much….everybody who can,should send donations to moveon…hopefully they will keep up the ‘good’fight…..
Betray us! Oh, heaven forefend, Senate!
Oh Fiddledeedee!!!
If you’re going to pass a resolution against such an accurate judgment, you’d better pass another against what Admiral
William Fallon called General David Petraeus! First, though, you’d have to
look up what he said. Because the mainstream press won’t circulate it or
was too dumb to have it register.
I’ll translate it into Greek, knowing that
the ears of all Senators are too sensitive
for English or American.
He called him a SYCOPHANT! Only in dirty
American version! Look it up! Apparently,
you can find it at ten different websites!
Go Senate! Get that Admiral!
In the meantime, here’s a message from one
voter: Drop dead, Republicans! Drop dead,
Democrats!
Hopefully, these same dems and reps are going to find themselves without a senate seat in 2008. We need fresh faces in the senate
Let’s go ahead and euthanize the First Amendment. It’s comatose anyway.
Who the Hell is Betray Us, God? Even MacArthur, who was more revered in his time (I dissented) than Betray Us is now, was not held to be above criticism.
When the Cheney Administration begins bombing Iran, these worse-than-useless legislators will immmedately fall in behind Cheney.
Hmmph. BushKrauts R Us. Unbelievable what these Morons think is priority. I wonder how often they have to change their kneepads.
COMark: “So America is now a place where simply wearing a uniform makes one immune to criticism.”
Wearing a uniform has, except in the from about 1965-1975 ALWAYS made one immune to criticism in America. This is why the mantra “support the troops” is being repeated by Rethugs & Dims alike.
Americans love war. That’s not a political fact, its a cultural one. “Freedom isn’t free,” etc. etc.
American civilians are oblivious to the cost of war– war always happens “somewhere else”, 9/11 being the only exception, which was an isolated terrorist act. Pearl Harbour was an attack on a military installation.
What made the military unpopular in Vietnam was the media coverage. They were exposed to the horrors of what war really was.
Desert Storm/Shield and Kosovo led to a more hermetically sealed war in regards to the media (remember the “smart bomb” videos, nice & bloodless).
As long as its somebody else being killed, that’s all that matters. And most Americans that DO want out of Iraq, its only because AMERICANS are getting killed and are in danger– not because its an immoral war waged on completely false pretenses & people’s lives have been made even WORSE than when living under Saddam.
But you must NEVER EVER criticise the military– EVER. They are only following orders (like Eichmann!) and they are “protecting our freedoms” (which, again, seeing how this war was waged on false pretenses it has abosolutely NOTHING to do with protecting America’s national security).
Be a good American & give a seig heil! Otherwise you aren’t supporting the troops! Thats UNAMERICAN! *gasp!*
What exactly does it mean by ‘amendment’ and what is ‘repudiation’?
With all due respect to the Senate’s delicate sensibility and highest regard for civil discourse, and its concomitant righteous denunciation of incivility and wanton attacks on honorable persons of authority, I nevertheless must regretfully declare: Bite me!
Republicans can attack war heroes like Kerry and Max Cleland and call them all sorts of names but any suggestion that Petraeus “cooked the books” is condemned in the Senate.
Well what can you say. Many of the Democratic leaders are absolute fools and most Americans are hypocrites.
If you are a Democrat your war service can be attacked, while if you are a Republican and in the military you are a hero.
What idiot would join the military under those conditions? unless of course you are a Republican.
Bush has been incredibly successful at damaging America.
“The Senate approved a resolution condemning the ad and all attacks on members of the military by 72-25.”
How nice!
When is the Senate going to approve a resolution condemning the attacks on our military members involved in Iraq’s civil war, along with a resolution to bring them home?
Doesn’t anyone smell a rat? I sure do. It seems like Moveon.org pulls one of these stunts at a crucial time so that subjects get changed just at the right time.
What is this business about playing around with a general’s name? This is 5th grade stuff.
There are plenty of other ways to insult a general without being so absurd. How about “chair warmer” How about “Kiss Up - Kick Down”?
I really don’t trust these people. If I was running a Nazi takeover, I would set up an organization just like them to generate phony crises and issues. This is the second time we’ve had to pay attention to their stunts.
Colleen, I agree with you on the surface, but we can’t desert some of these guys, notably Russ Feingold, who is not a candidate, but who would make the best president of the bunch. Keep the faith until Bush commits hira kari and the Democrats re-group. You will have a chance then to find one of the top guys to vote for… and donate a little to, as well.
hetzer
Bush has betrayed America
Impeach Bush and Cheney
Surprised that a capitalist party like the Democrats would do anything else? It’s time that you Yankee small-D democrats actually started to practice democracy. Where the fsck is your third party - your working class party? Enough said.
Dividing the contry again- I smell an election coming…no a new war…no an election…no a war……….
Hey MoveOn, it’s time to MOVE ON out of the Democratic Party. Be independent or find a third party that is not afraid to stand up to sociopathic corporate entities and the military industrial not-so-complex. I’m waiting with my checkbook for you to make that move.
busterkikki
Russ Feingold is one of the good guys.
He should not be the exception. Why do we have so many idiots leading us?
I saw Russ Feingold in someone’s home and he was fund raising for that idiot Casey.
I suppose Casey is a step up from Santorum. What is wrong with America?
I feel like I’m watching a bad horror movie…Why do so many Congressional members repeatedly refuse to use any common sense and simply get away from the villains? As a panic stricken viewer I scream, “NO NO…run away! Didn’t you see what happened last time? You’re heading right into the trap!”. Frustrated and filled with doom, I watch as they choose to walk right into the danger zone, again, and practically hand the Bush/Cheney administration their chainsaws so they may turn our constitution and the rights of the American people into hamburg, again.
I agree with the comments to donate to MoveOn.org…become a member…help to make their organization stronger. This is OUR country. Let’s each do our part to help take it back. The best way we can support our troops is to have undying determination to do whatever is necessary to fight against the abuses inflicted upon our nation by the current administration and demand that our troops come home!
Hetzer: I agree. There are several complex issues here. Free speech, the reactions of the Senators reflected in their voting, civil decorum, etc.
But childish or not, free speech is free speech. This is starting to make me second-guess my caution with regard to the Florida tazering incident. While that guy was possibly egging them on, and being rude, the first amendment makes no clauses about satire, language, name-calling, etc. For how long has the left had to suffer name-calling from right-wing hate radio and Faux News?
I’m not sure why Moveon is aiming at the general, though. Clearly he’s a political player, but although his strings are pulled by Bush/Cheney, the war was not his decision to start or to end.
Dear Senate:
In something you said in your resolution about General “Betray Us,” as in so much of your blather, there was the suggestion that we should all support the troops.
Well, I will support some of them– the ones who have correctly renounced the Iraq
War (better called the Iraq Occupation)
as self-destructive to America and Iraq and the world and stupid.
The others, though, volunteered– despite what they so easily could have learned. Did they know the exact odds of their being wounded or killed when they were recruited, based on those previous figures for American soldiers? Of course not, and that is just one of the many items they didn’t look into.
I don’t think it’s enough to say they were products of a flawed education produced by “No Child Left Behind” or that they came from poor families where the information wasn’t good.
The facts were out there, even as street knowledge, but they refused to consider them.
What I am saying is very serious, that these soldiers are enablers of war, just
as surely as the present administration, Congress, the press, radio and television.
And war, though inherently stupid (consider David Halberstam’s latest and last book– on Korea), is especially stupid in this case, maybe the stupidest
in American history, with the real potential to start World War III if we don’t get out right now!
The grim scenarios being painted of what
happens if we withdraw can all be presented, more surely, as what will happen if we stay.
Two words can summarize what the military thinks about the suggestion that donning a uniform sets one above reproach: ‘court martial.’
colleen September 20th, 2007 4:49 pm
The politicans are disgusting.
No money to these people from me:
====================
Why stop at your list? No money and support for the Dems - period.
And by the eay - Betray Us is a mild word. Our troops are committing war crimes in Iraq. An illegal war of aggression is a war crimes. Troops who participate in a war crime are war criminals - including this “Gen real Betray Us”
STABBED IN THE BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since the Democrats took back congress, since day one, they have stabbed their supporters in the back.
I don’t believe just how low Washington has sunk to. It shocks even me, a person who has always believed that politicians are criminals.
Make no mistake about it, the scum of the American sit in the Congress and the White House. I just hope Moveon truly does move on and supports the Green Party from now on. How many times do the Democrats have to stab us in the back before we wake up?
I don’t believe there is a part of Hell hot enough for these democratic cowards, betrayers, enablers, liars. We need a complete overhaul of the system, but that may not happen any time soon unless we have a complete economic collapse.
Free speech is free speech. The only constraint I would place on “free speech” is when it’s funded for a particular political end. This “end” is not political. It concerns US policy, one that is killing millions of people, and causing undo hardship to many millions more.
Biden said two nights ago (in essence, not exact quote) that “what you heard is frustration. These people [MoveOn] are frustrated and angry. I may not agree with what they said or how they said it, but I understand why they said it. They’re frustrated, we’re all frustrated about this war and want to get it over with and bring the troops home as quickly as possible.”
Free speech is free speech. Period.
Hagel said (again in essence) “it was shameful for the Administration to put a general in front to explain their policy. It was shameful, deceitful, and spineless of them to do that.”
Hagel was exercising his free speech.
peaceistruth:
And abandon the 25 Democrats who had the courage to vote against the resolution? Now what purpose would that serve? The goal should be 26, 27, 28, 29, 30…51….60.
Support the 25. Too bad they’re not in a different party though. They give undue credibility to the remainder.
I will be writing Senator Kohl a letter.
Pathetic vote on his part.
And how about that Obama? Hey, all you Obamaniacs, wake up!
I am really heartened by all the previous comments listed here. The people truly are picking up the scent of this whole smelly affair with Petraeus. Kudos to Move On and to all the remaining “human beings” still working diligently in the U.S. Congress. Now, can someone explain to me why Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel were not invited to participate in the recent Iowa debates? I have a feeling that, because of this deliberate action, these gentlemen SHOULD be our choices for Pres and Vice-Pres in 2008!! Obviously, the “powers that be” are not smiling down upon them because they are too honest and dedicated to the will of the people. Did you all know that the very same Mike Gravel helped Daniel Ellsberg deliver the Pentagon papers to the press during Nixon’s Watergate fiasco? All the more reason to support them, correct? So take heed, folks!! Keep your eyes and ears open to what’s happening in our so-called democracy today!!!
I’m writing a letter to my Senator Feinstein D-CA and tell her how ashamed I am of her for joining in this silly act. Where were the Senators when Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld were telling lies to the American public about WMD’s? I think they forgot about the SwiftBoat ad’s that were sponsored by the repugs. I watched Keith Olberman tonight and all I can say is “SAY IT AGAIN KEITH”.
Marta, thank you for “But it’s all good. Now, we all know who is a Republican in drag, and fight against their reelection”.
MoveOn should keep on punching and come back with an ad identifying our “Republican’s in Drag” (RID?) to be replaced by liberals with a backbone in the next election cycle.
Get the broom!
Paul, yes yes, I know. I got a little carried away at first, the numbers didn’t sink in at first but I still believe any senator voting to “condemn” an ad that attacks a tool of the worst president in American history is one too many.
The 25 who didn’t vote to condemn should have first shouted out “why are we wasting time on this nonsense?” Regardless, bravo to them.
Still, I have given up on the Democrats. There is too little difference between them and the Republicans. The Democrats are controlled by the war-mongering corporations. Try to get more progressive democrats elected and the corporatists and the media will destroy them; unless there was a way to destroy the cancer that is the DNC and usher in a new era of a democratic party supported by the progressive grass roots. If someone can show me how it can be done, I will start supporting the Democrats again.
The tyranny of etiquette strikes: if you want to criticize the violent deaths of around a million Iraqis caused by US (plus soon 4 000 US soldiers), be polite. Or else you’re not “decent”. To be complicit in the violent death of a million ordinary people (as all US citizens in principle are) is not indecent. It’s “bad form” to refer effectfully to bad acts by US.
Toe the line – the line defined by US.
In Naomi Wolf’s excellent article “Fascist America, in 10 Easy Steps”, step 5 “Harass citizens’ groups” applies to this case. Step 9 “Dissent equals treason” also fits.
For more, read Wolf’s new book “The end of America: A Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot”.
*
At least, General Petraeus is now forever branded with “GENERAL BETRAY US”. The Senate vote reinforces that. Neat.
Hey, why stop there? Why not have an amendment that doesn’t allow people to attack or criticize men & women in uniform? I’m sure that Fox News would jump on the band wagon to restrict free speech in this manner. Slowly, but surely we all know they want to restrict free speech, which will effectively, in their mind destroy the “liberal media”. Viva la fascisma Americana!
I’m still waiting to hear why impeachment was never a part of the discourse! Are only republicans (especially the extreme conservatives) the only “patriots” allowed to speak up in this country? McCain’s desire for the removal of Moveon to move off is akin to telling all the antiwar protesters to leave this country. The republic (not a democracy!) was founded on the ideal of freedom of speech and acceptance of differing views but we seem to have lost sight of that in the fervour created since 9/11. That is a sad commentary on the state of our nation. And aren’t we still in Korea?
I suppose Benedict Arnold was a great American too because he served in the military
Anyway these are the names of the senators who did not condemn a newspaper ad by Move.On
Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Clinton (D-NY)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Levin (D-MI)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
Not Voting - 3
Biden (D-DE)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
citizen 1
The basis for the US government is corrupt. The candidates for the presidency will have to solicit ( yes like a prostitute) ONE BILLION DOLLARS each for their political campaigns.
So if your politician is not telling the truth and is not being courageous..well the system is set up for the cowards to win. If a politican is honest he will alienate voters and lose contributions and will not get elected.
Still we have to work with what we have and the above names are the best we have now imo.
Twenty-two Democrats voted for this? Twenty-two?
I quit Moveon.org when its leaders denied the majority of members’ desire that the organization stand for impeachment of Bush and Cheney. I will not rejoin it unless impeachment is put back on the table.
But I admire greatly the full-page ad that underscores the betrayal of Gen. Petraeus–betrayal of not only the troops who pay the price he and Bush command they pay, but of the truth–a truth Alan Greenspan spoke earlier this week.
This war is about oil, and all the blood that’s flowed so far is only helping line the pockets of Bush, Cheney, Rice, and their Neocon buddies. The rich and powerful get richer, the weak and poor die.
Many of the 22 Democrats who voted in favor of the resolution condemning Moveon.org probably receive large donations from private contractor firms operating in Iraq. That’s the way the game is played in D. C.
The vote bodes ill for those of us who entertain hopes that the Democrats will show some spine on the upcoming vote to continue funding for the occupation of Iraq.
What would Thomas Jefferson advise, I wonder?
–a Vietnam War vet and member, Veterans for Peace
time to put your two bits where your mouth is.. join MoveOn.org
Support Dennis Kucinich for president,vote out all the democrats and republicans that support the terrorist war against the people of Iraq.
There are few words to waste on the political circus,the corporate news media,our electronic controlled elections, the signs are all around us of what America has become,controlled Supreme court,patriot acts,the police are waiting,the prisons are ready for all the economic slaves living from paycheck to paycheck, wow do we still have time to turn this country around?-
Today’s letter to the DNC website:
I will be unsubscribing soon. All donations will be made through Moveon.org and all communications from you can come from them as well. I am sick of the spineless Democrats in the Senate condemning free speech; allowing this war to continue; allowing this president to stay in office lying with every word; the dismembering of the Constitution they swore to uphold, God, I could go on forever. Oh yeah, taking away my vote in Florida in the primary elections. In short, YOU S**K!
It was stupid politics on the part of MoveOn.org to try to make a villain out of Petraeus. He is just a general doing his job. Bush is the guilty one who has betrayed us and the troops by this insane war. I belong to MoveOn and can forgive them. We are all human after all and make mistakes. MoveOn just put a lot of good politicians in a tough place with this ad. Freedom of speech is good but so is common sense and decency.
If you want the Republican Party to keep control, just don’t vote for the Democrats. You will get your wish. I know. It’s a mess. But the computers are still being rigged. Millions more votes will be suppressed. There must be a sufficiently large difference in the votes to show up the hacking. I strongly suggest that we take a whole lot more interest in our primaries where new progressive blood could replace the Democratic jerks who have forgotten what America and our Constitution are all about. I recently rejoined the Democratic Party (I’d been registered Green for nearly seven years.) because I want a meaningful vote in the primary. I suspect that a few of those posting the idea of not voting or voting for tiny minority candidates are working for the Republican machine. I don’t mean to insult anybody as I full well understand the frustration and rage. But we’ve got to face the reality of one party that is a total loss and the other party with the possibility of redemption by strong, active local constituencies.
MoveOn should start working on getting ballot access in all 50 states. And start identifying progressive, solidly anti-war candidates to run in the primaries against the incumbents who show themselves consistently to be Republicans in Democrats clothing.
I feel MoveOn blew it by displaying this ad. Sure we got debate, but it just gave cannon fodder to the Right wingers who seem to be all to good at making mountains out of molehills. The conversation shifted from exit strategy to moveon’s play on words. It seems the critisism could have been more constructive. One flip thought though…now many more people know MoveOn exists where before they didn’t!
Since when is our military a sacred cow? And since when is free speech denied, and our opinions slandered? I’ll tell you when. When we (yes, WE) stood back and watched in horror — immobilized — as the rightwing Christian evangelical crazies headed by the Pat Robertsons, Newt Gingriches, Tom Delays, et al., began to sow the seeds of hate among their base, and made them the most powerful interest group this country has ever seen.
And you wonder why our spineless Democrats don’t speak out? They, too, are cowed by these people and their tactics. All of us are, if truth be told. Over the last 10 years or so, we have been made to feel ashamed by this authoritarian group of religious demagogues to scream to the world that we are LIBERALS and PROUD of it! WHY?
Because they have equated our liberal thinking with anti-Americanism, and made most Americans think this is so. Their pitch has been extremely effective. They are well-organized and well-financed. They have denigrated us, dismissed us, and truly have set out to destroy us. WE are their enemy, make no mistake. They are loud, bullying, and have captured the attention of the media, whether it be FOX or the rest. They are getting the positive attention; we, on the other hand, can only cower, and our protests, when we make them, go largely unnoticed by a corporate-bought media.
And when we do protest, as did MoveOn in the Petreaus ad, it’s more of the same. The liberal left questions the military, and dares to speak out, the neocon warcry is “Shame on the Liberals.” And the country listens! Including those Democratic senators who are intimidated by these bullies’ propaganda because they are concerned “the base” won’t agree. Nonsense! There are way more of us than them. But what do we do? Nothing, but bitch to each other on these pages.
I have been a liberal and a Democrat for all my 56 years. In no time of my life have I ever been more frightened by the direction this country is taking. I am ashamed of our Democrats in Congress (by and large…not all of them), but I fear that they don’t have the stomach to take on this group of madmen.
I simply don’t know what we should do. It is maddening, to say the least. It seems as though our freedoms have been so eroded, and our “free” press so co-opted, that unless someone like Kucinich (or even Edwards, who, at this point, is looking damn good to me),gets elected, we are done. And by the way, watch out for the empty suit, Fred Thompson. He is the next perfect puppet of the right-wing nut jobs.
I have just finished reading John Dean’s “Conservatives Without Conscience.” If you really want to know how this all happened to us, read this book. You will find yourself nodding in agreement, and saying, “So that’s why they are the way they are…and the way we are.”
Be brave America; be strong; be free.
America’s leaders have shamed themselves, but the American people have not.
The world is counting on you, America, to do what is right.
America’s leaders have shamed themselves, but the American people have not.
America’s leaders call their citizens, ‘cowards’.
Don’t lose heart America.
America’s leaders have shamed themselves, but the American people have not.
America’s leaders laugh at their citizens and the world.
Hold on America, the world needs you now more than ever.
America’s leaders have shamed themselves, but the American people have not.
America’s leaders threaten new acts of shame.
Love your country and be courageous, America; stand by her.
Be brave America; be strong; be free.
America’s leaders have shamed themselves, but the American people have not.
The world is counting on you, America, to do what is right.
No one is suffering more now, America, than your troops; don’t turn your back on them.
Support our troops, stop the war!
I wrote the following to Diane Feinstein who voted in favor of the resolution:
I am writing to express my dismay with your recent vote to “condemn” the speech of the public policy organization Moveon.org. In my opinion, it is neither the United States Senate’s responsibility nor prerogative to “condemn” the speech of any individual or organization.
In spending time and energy on such a vote, what Constitutional duty is the Senate fulfilling? Clearly, according to Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution, the Senate has no enumerated power to judge the speech of United States citizens. Are taxpayers really expected to pay the salaries of Senators so that they might opine on the speech of various individuals and organizations?
As they say in the workplace, don’t do personal business on company time. Your opinion may be valued by some, and you have a legitimate right to express it on your own time; but since when is it the business of the Government of the United States to express opinions on American citizens’ speech?
Regardless of your personal opinion of Moveon.org’s ad concerning General Petraeus, your official duty as a United States Senator is to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, no more, no less. You can reasonably be accused of neglecting and abusing your duty by using your office to engage in Constitutionally irrelevant acts such as Senate Resolution 315.
Your timely response is awaited and appreciated.
Sincerely,
David Powell
Can anyone tell me the names of Republicans who voted for a resolution to condemn the Swift Boat ads? Or who voted to condemn the smear campaign against Max Cleland? WAS there even such a resolution? Shame on everyone who got scared into voting for this one. It is really a bad day for the Dems when Billary has more male intestinal fortitude than 27 of her colleagues.
Kind of shows the DSCC argument that electing more Democrats fixes everything is utter BS. The reality is that Bush is not a lame duck and gets everything he wants despite Democratic control of both Houses of Congress because there is bi-partisan support for the war and the trampling on civil liberties. Remember the big hoopla over Tester, Webb, Casey, Cardin and McCaskill? The have voted the same way those whom they defeated would have voted on opposing the troops by funding the surge and most of them voted for the Trample Civil Liberties Act 2. Now this.
Better not talk about a person with this reputation…..
General Petraeus was in charge of the Security Transition Command at the time that the Iraqi procurement budget of $1.2bn was stolen. “It is possibly one of the largest thefts in history,” Iraq’s Finance Minister, Ali Allawi, said. “Huge amounts of money disappeared. In return we got nothing but scraps of metal.”
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/13/3814/
The man wants to run for president someday!
Is it obvious yet that the Dems are completely and utterly worthless!? Could they care any less for our troops’ lives and Iraqi lives that are lost everyday for nothing more than to line the pockets of greedy, lying war criminals! Four years of this crap and these bloody jokers are voting to condemn a freakin’ TV commerical?!
Amazing, just amazing
Thank you Move On for representing me. My ” elected representatives ” can’t seem to get a grip on what doing the right thing could possibly mean. As many times as I’ve tried to give ‘em a clue, they just refuse to get it. Being polite and correct doesn’t fase ‘em in the least. Maybe we have to just go for it your way and stop pulling our punches. Guess they think anyone who doesn’t have their head up their ass is leftist, guess if they can live like that they think we all could survive in a polluted world.
I’d rather keep my head up high. PEACE!
When did “condemnatation” become a legislative act. Does this ad now go to a special leislative hell and suffer the flames of eternal torment? What are the legal results of “condemning” an ad. Will they also be swiftboating the ad.. or will that be the responsibility of other political ad -makers.
Stuff like this that will help hand both houses over to the repugs big time. The Dems seem to be going out of their way to piss off their base big time. So much so that much of them will now all but stay home on election day.
Nice going dems.
There was no accusation in the question the ad posed, just a simple question.
But I digress.
I accuse the President of the United States, of betraying the people of the United States, by intentionally presenting reasons, known to be false, for an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.
I additionally accuse the President of the United States of various high crimes and misdemeanors, including but not limited to, aiding and abetting the willful murder of innocent, unarmed, men, women and children.
I accuse the President of the United States of committing multiple war crimes by instigating a criminal conspiracy to perform a clearly illegal ‘preventive’ war of aggression, and the illegally seizing of a sovereign nations natural resources.
I accuse the President of the United States, and the Congress of the United States, with betraying the will of the people, and bringing shame to the nation in the eyes of the world.
This vote was no small matter.
It showed which of the senate democrats may be capable of recovering a smigeon of their street smarts and backbones, and which of them will apparently choose forever to remain dough-headed, wretched Quislings.
A symbolic resolution vomiting this much reeking hypocritical murderous bile should’be been easily boomeranged back on its perpetrators and used to make mincemeat of them.
But god help us: even the ‘brave’ democrats who impolitely voted against it, weren’t brave enough to be THAT impolite…
A condemnation of dirty pool from the group that brought us The Swift Boat Slanderers? I don’t think so.
Even though the most basic problem here is that the wealthy media are intimidating all our politicians and thereby running the country, this IS a complex and difficult issue which informed & responsible adults can honorably disagree about. No one should expect the commanding officer of a major military offensive that was misconceived in the first place and isn’t going well now to speak so publicly in an objective balanced way. His primary responsibility is to the troops he leads to be positive and optimistic. But in our democracy civilian politicians choose the missions and must bear the responsibility for faulty choices, not the troops that are attempting to carry out the civilian’s orders. It was disgraceful of Bush to ask General Petraeus to do his dirty work on the Hill and it was disgraceful of the Democrats to agree to it. This violation of civilian control of the military just weakens both our military and our democracy. General Petraeus’s report should have been taken in closed session where only his own personal reputation and career would be on the line - not in this very public forum where the entire relationship of the American people with its military was put at risk. We may now still be the unquestionably most powerful military force on the planet and in history but it is foolish to think that there won’t be real and serious challenges ahead - or that we don’t need to be careful about weakening through misuse and abuse the American people’s opinion of, trust in, and support for our military. Challenges and missions will come and go. The military must remain - strong, trusted, honored, subordinate. And if we compromise our democracy with lies and abuses in the process of “defending” it, that also dishonors the military men and women we have asked to give the ultimate sacrifice.
I’d also like to suggest that there is an effective means of being heard in this wealthocracy that hasn’t been tried yet and that is a week long general consumer spending moratorium or boycott by the 70% of us that want an end to the mistake in Iraq - like a general strike, but much less risky for workers - and pretty easy to pull off with a little planning: fill up your car & your frig the week before and stay home as much as possible and don’t spend or talk to any business about spending any money for a week - maybe beginning the day the Senate starts hearings on the Iraq Supplemental - or the day the Senate is to vote on it - let an umbrella group like United for Peace and Justice pick the exact timing and them and us and MoveOn get the word out. Go ahead and pass the regular military appropriation bill for the next year, including the Iraq funds in it, but don’t give Bush the supplemental funds for Iraq that he’s asking for. Show the Democrats that 70% of the American people WANT THEM to vote against Iraq military appropriations and they may then be emboldened to REPRESENT US once again and take back control of our democracy from the wealthy media.
What do you all think?
This summer Pres. Bush signed into Law, a Presidential Directive, making it illegal to talk or march or protest against the Iraqi war, or do anything that would undermine the progresss of the war. (The White House-recent Presidential Directives.) He also signed one which bypasses the Congress and House, in the event of a “National Emergency” declared by him, giving bush, cheney, and the head of homeland security executive priviledge to impose Martial Law. The Pres used to have to have to have approval of the house and senate. You have no rights according to bush and his swine. Swine dont like sheep or cattle. They will heard them into pens for slaughter.
It’s easy to separate the wheat from the chaff. Vote for liberal Dems, NEVER for conservative Dems. Support MoveOn!
Obama, you are only vp material.
and the Republican from Texas Cornyn is shameless in his ambition. He deserves to be driven from office.
All the rest: you need to know that repudiating the ad is repudiating voters. Just who do you listen to?
A true race to the bottom.
Of course this bunch has crouched behind barricades & beneath fighter-jets zooming over their heads while singing Gawd Blehhss Uhmurrica at every occasion the last seven years.
They have nothing to do with us whatsoever — they have as much in common with us as the French or Russian aristocracy had with their victims.
I can’t even be outraged — I watch these bathetic bunch of crawling wretches with utter DISGUST. The devil wouldn’t want them picking fleas out of his arsehole, no matter how much practice they’ve had with Chickenshit George and Lipless Dick.
Move On Put your Ad money where your mouth is…here’s the man! Help him get elected!
September 19, 2207
“When you consider that this war was based on lies, when you consider that Iraq did not attack the United States, that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, it is an urgent matter of national morality to determine what the appropriate response is,” said Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH).
“It is time for us to start talking about the legal responsibility of President Bush, Vice President Cheney and all the other war architects who built a case for the war based on lies.
“The very essence of America’s credibility in the world is at stake. Our highest elected officials should be held accountable for actions that resulted in the deaths of more than a million innocent people, particularly when those deaths were based on demonstrable lies.
“It is very important that we start to ask serious questions about accountability. Just as no individual has the right to take another individual’s life, no nation has the right to kill innocent people in another nation. No leader of the United States–in the name of the United States–should be permitted to wage aggressive war with impunity.
“I am preparing a resolution that requests the House meet in the Committee of the Whole to investigate the matter of civilian causalities as well as U.S. troop casualties that have occurred in Iraq. The resolution will recount that the war was based on lies. It will ask the House to consider action, including possibly preferring criminal charges against individuals who in the Administrative conduct of office were directly responsible for the war and the consequent loss of life.
“A grave injustice has been done to the people of Iraq and the people of the United States. More than one million lives have been lost. Families have been destroyed. Social networks have been ripped apart. We have had many soldiers killed and injured. This must be acknowledged.
“On a deeper level, the inquiry I am proposing relates to who we are as Americans and what we stand for. I refuse to believe that the American people—people of intelligence and good heart will not want to see justice done. There must be a measure of justice brought forward so that this deep stain on American history is removed,” Kucinich concluded. “We must seek the truth, wherever it leads.”
meconopsis -
Bush’s executive order was a little more subtly fascistic than your rendering.
It didn’t declare such protest, etc. automatically illegal.
Instead it gave the Executive the power to declare such actions illegal in the name of National Security Determinations, etc.
If this neat little distinction hadn’t been made in the EO, it wouldn’t have passed even present-day Constitutional muster.
Try to understand: By breaking-down the Prez’s new power into sequential procedural steps wholly within Executive determinations, our Constitutional rights remain fully assured.
Confused?
Well then, if you still don’t understand, just OBEY. That’ll do.
Democrats are such perennial suckers for Republican patriotism-baiting…always have, always will. This vote should be instructive for MoveOn - doesn’t pay to kiss Democratic ass. How little it takes for Democrats to go nuts trying to juggle a perceived hot potato. Then there’s Obama coming through as the phony he truly is.
Citizen65 -
I want to believe that you have decent personal values.
But some of the premises in your post say otherwise. You seem to be trying to exhort citizen loyalty to the US Armed forces at a time when those armed forces are obeying executive orders that are unconstitutional and in violation of international treaties the US has signed-on to.
The Nuremberg trial verdicts credibly established as global moral benchmark, that soldiers, whether grunts or generals, receving orders that contravene accepted principles of international standards of human decency, and their own national laws, have a moral obligation to disobey such orders.
You may be a fine American from an earlier generation, but you don’t seem to understand the monstrousness and illegality of what your government is doing. Nor your moral obligation to see the present reality, and decisively oppose it w/o waffling or rote-patriotic sentimentality.
Alembic- Understood! I just hope you are correct…..
veive September 20th, 2007 7:48 pm
“Golly gee. Looks like Petraeus is real popular with our Senate. Unfortunately our Senate wouldn’t get a 25% approval rating from the folks they’re supposed to be representing. Bush and Congress are rated only slightly lower than whale feces”
Actually the latest poll out two days ago put the Congressional approval rating at 11%. It may be even lower now with the vote on the Moveon ad.
As for the vote, I am glad our Senators exercised their free speech right also, which is what it was because it was simply an expression of condemnation with no legislation attached to prevent Moveon from running ads, because it allows us to really find out where each of them stands. Vote accordingly when they come up for re-election.
Lobo Gris
meconopsis -
I think you misunderstood my rejoinder to your post.
I was being sarcastic — not toward you, but about Bush’s deception.
I think Bush’s Executive Order is BS. Unconstitional. Fascistic.
Alembic
Malthus2 September 20th, 2007 11:32 pm
“MoveOn just put a lot of good politicians in a tough place with this ad. Freedom of speech is good but so is common sense and decency.”
That is exactly where a lot of our politicians need to be put. All of the broken campaign promises, and the public statements stating one thing while voting the opposite need to see the light of day. This ad and the subsequent vote and furor did just that. It let us know exactly where each of them stands.
We need more of that, not less. Kudos to Moveon.
Lobo Gris
I was angry at this waste of time and I wrote my senator:
Dear Senator Feinstein,
I read the news today that you voted “to repudiate an ad from MoveOn.org” regarding Gen. David Petraeus. I am very disappointed with your vote. Is this not America? Do we not still have rights as Americans to voice our dissent with this terrible war in Iraq? Sure David Petraeus is in the military, and we should support those who are risking their lives in Iraq, but we need Accountability!! Why should we not ask questions from a man who is shaping the war in Iraq to make sure what he is saying is accurate and the best policy for America?!!
My initial reaction to this article and the 136 prior commentators was , hahahahahahahahahahahahah
hysterical laughter.
……..then…..I saw, Canadian dollar and Ruppee gain against the greenback……….
ha huh hhh,,,,,,,oh
Move On has gained the attention of THE SENATE?????? the only semblance of a “peoples” action group with some umph behind it………….gets rebufed by THE SENATE???????
wasn’t there a bill passed recently allowing the DISGUSTING decider to declare groups like Move On “terrorist?”
Oh dear.
I know people in India…….I’m ok.
The time for POLITE REASONED ARGUMENTS with OUR “LEADERSHIP” IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!
urthsong September 20th, 2007 11:37 pm
“I suspect that a few of those posting the idea of not voting or voting for tiny minority candidates are working for the Republican machine.”
And I suspect that there are more than a few are shills for the Democrats trying to perpetuate the duopoly that has so ill served the country and the American voter.
Want real change in 2008? Vote third party. If the almost nine out of every ten voters that are mad at the Congress and the President would vote for what they really believe in then third party candidates could indeed win.
To expect change by continuing to vote for Republicans or Democrats is sheer folly.
One definition of insanity is to keep repeating the same actions over and over while each time expecting different results.
Lobo Gris
It might be worthwhile to reform the full political process that continually brings out the worst in people. I am very concerned about the survival of our species. If we (humans) continually and naturally move towards fear and anger instead of the realm of love and understanding, we are going to annihilate ourselves fairly quickly now.
I’d be interested in a discussion about how we might somehow be able to participate effectively in our own evolution.
Our politicians are so bad there are no more adjectives left.
How far left are the democrats going to lean asks GARBO, are you kidding, compared to international standards the Democrats are right wing the rest are just plain fascists.
To have a democracy the whole political spectrum has to be represented and the USA doesn’t come anywhere near to fullfilling that criteria. What you have in the USA is an Autocracy with very strong religious overtones. The religion keeps the rank and file in line along with the complete blackout of real news and it works. In recent years because of the extreme measures a stronger control mechanism is required so 9/11 and the threat of terrorists was introduced and the focal point of that terrorism is OBL who is in fact an ISI operative, that is why he is still at large.
Wake up people the USA has been hijacked.
I am having a deja-vu moment regarding a vote by the Senate after a trusted general gave testimony. Ah yes, Petraeus reminds me of General Colin Powell (he of the MyLai whitewash) and Powell’s serious sack of shit so stinkily spread before the UN General Assembly, to justify the BushWar with Iraq… or else the war would be an International War Crime and a Terrorist Act by the US. How did that turn out by the way? And now guess what? We got ourselves another sack of shit, only this time happily spread out for the fawning cretins in the US Senate, mostly the same suckers that fell for Powell the first go-round. MoveOn’s ad meant to shame Petraeus into telling the truth and not betraying we the people with more crap from BushCo, and for the Senate to be more skeptical. It didn’t work with these corporatist rats, neither on the general or on the Senate. Well, the dog-and-pony show is bought-and-paid-for, so rather than do something noble, the Senate votes to condemn FREE SPEECH! And it does nothing about the criminal war that it continues to fund with our money EVEN AFTER the General’s LIES were exposed for the fraud they were, and I mean the Powell lies providing military-man cover for the Bush Crime Family BushWar. Same thing happening now, and the same Senate doing the same kow-tow to Bush. America is dreadful sick. MoveOn is just saying maybe America should see a good doctor. Keep on keeping on MoveOn. Thank you.
i support the true military heroes, the 40,000 plus who have refused to go back and remain compicent in this illigal genocide, by defecting. moveon.org were right on the mark. the whole bush admin. have betrayed us.
That any Democratic would be suckered into this vote is disgusting and only makes the party look foolish. Once again they get rolled instead of standing up an calling this garbage by its real name. This updated version of Red-baiting, which is to question the patriotism of the Democratic Party is second nature to the gang in the White and House & the likes of Senator Cornyn. What really surprises me is the votes by Senators Mikulski, Dorgan and Conrad who have all been pretty severe critics of this administration. Don’t these people realize that this doesn’t help them?
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Moveon helped get some of these people elected. Welcome to the game of power.
It’s amazing what happens when you tell the truth…
Keep up the good work Moveon.org!