A Place to Push Impeachment
BEVERLY CENTER, Calif. - If President Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney were ever to be impeached, their foes could cite this Independence Day as a milestone - the day that the nation’s first “impeachment headquarters” opened its doors in a storefront near the Beverly Center.
“This is an impeachment 4th of July,” Byron De Lear, a Green Party activist, said Wednesday. He called removing Bush and Cheney “a patriotic duty to restore the integrity of the United States.” 
Those assembled cited various Bush actions or policies, including “lies that led the U.S. into war.”
They also said that Bush–Cheney policies precipitated torture, illegal spying on American citizens, and the curtailment of privacy and civil rights in the name of fighting terrorism.
The latest irritant was the president’s decision to commute the prison sentence of former Cheney aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, whom a jury convicted of obstructing justice.
“Isn’t it ironic that Paris Hilton will spend more days in jail than Libby?” said De Lear.
The day’s star power was provided by Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles), who had vigorously defended then-President Bill Clinton when he faced impeachment in 1998.
“This is one of the most important efforts this country has ever seen,” said Waters, speaking to about 300 gathered for a noon rally at nearby La Cienega Park.
In an interview, she added: “We can make changes through organizing. If the numbers are in the streets, Congress will listen.”
Any impeachment motion - ultimately voted on by the House of Representatives - would have to pass through the House Judiciary Committee, to which Waters belongs.
Organizers could not definitively name another “pro-impeach” representative on that committee.
In the House at large, they tally 14 like-minded lawmakers, most of whom have signed on to articles of impeachment against Cheney that were introduced by Dennis J. Kucinich (D-Ohio), who is running for president.
When asked who might lead the cause in the Senate, Waters paused, then said she would have to defer that question for now.
In the end, removing Bush or Cheney from office would require a two-thirds vote by the Senate.
In the mid-term elections, many more Democrats - and some Republicans - spoke out against the war, including some who had originally voted to permit the Bush administration to invade Iraq.
But concluding the war and impeaching Bush don’t look like compatible policies to most members of Congress, said progressive Democratic columnist Harold Meyerson, executive editor of the American Prospect, in a telephone interview.
“Impeachment is a distraction since it’s not going to happen,” said Meyerson.
“At the root of this is the notion that Bush lied us into war and that’s been out there 4 1/2 years. Impeachment would stop everything else in Congress and the Democrats think they actually need to accomplish stuff instead of fighting unwinnable battles, especially with poll numbers falling for Congress. The main thing is to defeat Republicans electorally.”
Republican analyst Arnold Steinberg said an impeachment drive would help his side: “This gambit will excite the leftist base but marginalize reasonable Democrats and alienate independent voters - and motivate Republicans. I can only say, ‘Grow up and get a life.’ Or, better yet, ‘Go for it.’ You’ll end up sinking Democratic Party prospects for 2008.”
Critics seeking to define the headquarters opening as a conclave of the political fringe could point out the largely middle-aged, deeply left-wing audience or the accordion player in floppy shoes who opened the rally with a version of “America” that substituted “siblinghood” for “brotherhood.”
But the audience also included fresh recruits Trevor Torquato, 19, and Lauren Kuzma, 17, of Murrieta.
“I’m actually new to politics,” said Torquato. “I’m here to be educated. I’m going to register with the Green Party today.”
“I’m just hoping all of this will get Bush out of office,” said Lauren, “so we can get our troops out of Iraq. They don’t really talk about that in school. They talk about past history, not what’s going on now.”
The impeachment center was sponsored by Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles, Westside Greens, Santa Monica Democratic Club and the Los Angeles Greens.
Activists plan to meet every Saturday from 2 to 6 p.m. at the 3rd Street storefront, where they’ll stuff envelopes, do phone banking, spread the word about http://www.bcimpeach.com and make plans to circulate petitions and lobby elected officials. They report that 79 municipalities and townships nationwide have passed impeachment resolutions.
Former Assemblywoman Jackie Goldberg, who spoke at the event, insisted that principles ought to trump narrow political imperatives. “Leadership requires that people step out,” she said. “It is not hopeless. Stand up. Do something for your rights.”
Copyright 2007 Los Angeles Times
Bring the Pitchforks!
This is good, but it seems kindof a shame that there’s not one central rally point for the impeachment movement.
Former U.S. Attorney Ramsey Clark and his group at
votetoimpeach.org have been calling for impeachment for years, and have over 900,000 signatures for impeachment.
The articles of impeachment charge: Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld & Gonzalez.
http://www.votetoimpeach.org
I hope the Democrats have the same opinion of NOT BOTHERING TO EVEN INVESTIGATE obvious “high crimes and misdemenors” for the sake of political expediency for the REST OF AMERCIA’S CITIZENS….
IS A CRIME NOT WORTH INVESTIGATING JUST BECAUSE A GUILTY VERDICT IS NOT ASSURED??????????????
IS A CRIME NOT WORTH INVESTIGATING JUST BECAUSE IT MAY CAUSE A POLITICAL BACKLASH TO THE INVESTIGATORS??????
WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPENED TO THIS COUNTRY??????????
We need to do today what is possible, so that we can create new possibilities for tomorrow. No sane person believes that impeachment and conviction are possible today, but we must do what we can today so that some day in the not too distant future impeachment and conviction ARE possible.
Those who now say that those who pursue impeachment waste their time display a callous fatalism that discards hope and embraces a calculation completely devoid of soul and spirit.
Canuckchuck - surely you know that the USA has been very f’d up for many years. It’s run by organized criminals. The internet is making it impossible for them to hide the truth as they have in the past.
Seems that to get justice, we’d have to have all the politicians who have supported the invasion/occupation thrown in jail. They’ve all got the blood of innocent children on their filthy hands.
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“Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today.”
President Theodore Roosevelt - 1906
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“Without sharing there can be no justice;
without justice there can be no peace;
without peace there can be no future.”
The World Teacher
Given the depth of the criminality of this administration, it is a shame that the opposition (sic) leadership has declared impeachement “off the table.” Regrettably, now that a Green has publicly endorsed impeachment, we can expect the Dems to work actively against it.
seriousprofessor — that is funny.
I betcha a bunch of “Greens” “Blacks” “Blues” “Democrats” “Republicans” and “Others” have publically endorsed impeachment.
If the “Dems” want to work against it, that is their choice, but who gives a flap about what “them Dems” do.
Isn’t it supposed to be what the People want?
Peace,
Ken Hausle
* I support HRes333 - Impeach the VP
***** time is of the essence *****
The Democrat’s position reads something like this:
We caught a mass murderer.
He confessed.
We aren’t going to prosecute him.
We have other priorities.
He’s free to go.
-Grumpy Lion
I’m taking issue with this statement, “Impeachment is a distraction since it’s not going to happen.” Convincing a majority of the House and 2/3 of the Senate that Bush, Cheney, or Gonzales has committed high crimes and misdemeanors, and not merely been grossly incompetent, will require congressional investigations of the charges to find if there’s adequate evidence. In other words, Congress has to conduct the same investigations it’s conducting already. All impeachment advocates are asking is take back the statement that “impeachment is off the table”. Say circumstances have changed, which they have: the US attorneys scandal, for example, didn’t even happen until after the 2006 election. Leave open the possibility that impeachment will occur if that’s where the evidence leads. No one is asking that they impeach no matter what. Just accumulate the evidence, and then do what the evidence requires. Otherwise, the bushies know that aside from some public disgrace, which they don’t care about, there are no consequences.
I wonder is that US Social Forum call for an independent investigation of the 9/11 attacks might not heat things up a bit in the US Congress who have been so dismissive of impeachment and removal so far. Yeah, that “probably won’t affect” anything at all.
I wonder is that US Social Forum call for an independent investigation of the 9/11 attacks might not heat things up a bit in the US Congress who have been so dismissive of impeachment and removal so far. Yeah, that “probably won’t affect” anything at all.
Yeah, “that would just more conspiracy mongering” just like the idea that W’s pardon of Scooter Libby was a conspiracy. “Come on,” ya’ll. Everybody “knows” no US institution would “ever be involved” in some conspiracy.
A Place to Push Impeachment
ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF NANCY PELOSI
KenHausle, yes indeed. What we want and what we expect, though, may be two different things.
PLEASE CALL your senate/congress people once per week & tell them to impeach the war criminals in the white house: Bush, Cheney, Rice, & Gonzalez.
http://www.votetoimpeach.org
Glad to see the PDA and the Greens working together.
I believe John Conyers has prepared a report on Bush’s impeachable crimes and that Dennis Kucinich has done the same for Cheney.
Ready to go, then??
With Bush’s intrusion into Libby’s Obstruction of Justice sentence, taking away the procecutors stick that could be used to force Libby to come clean, Bush is now officially party to that same Obstruction of Justice.
The reason Fitzgerlad gave for not bringing charges against anyone for the dastardly Plame leak was that Libby effectively HAD obstructed his investigation by coninuing to lying to the Grand Jury.
Now that Bush has made damn sure that Libby has no reason to now to EVER tell the truth, Bush has in effect obstructed an investigation into HIMSELF.
THAT IS AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE DEMOCRATS!!! GET WITH THE PROGRAM OR GET VOTED OUT YOU LAZY BASTARDS
Meyerson has it backwards–Congress’s poll numbers are dropping BECAUSE it won’t begin impeachment. If Pelosi started the impeachment process tomorrow, you’d see a jump in those polls. Bush and Cheney are a cancer on the Constitution and the country, and we can’t move forward with anything else until this cancer is cut out. Congress has to step up to the plate and get rid of Bush & Cheney before they do even more damage. If Bush & Cheney break anything else before 2008, the Democrats will be blamed. Save the domestic stuff until after the elections, but get impeachment going NOW.
You all are not thinking ahead. it is like barging into Baghdad and not planning what to do next. Nobody is pointing out some obvious problem that will crop up :
If Cheney is impeached, Bush will put in the next President elect into that position such as Mit Romney and he will look presidential.
Then when Bush is impeached, Mit Romney or whoever the Republicans want to annoint will move into the Presidency.
I never hear any discussion about these musical chairs. Why is that?
Gonzo would be a good one to impeach because he would not disturb these other dominoes and yet would send a message that we are serious.
What say you?
I just received another computer generated letter from Senator Murray about how she really didn’t like cluster bombs being used in populated areas, but the measure was defeated. below is part of the letter I sent back. My conclusion at the bottom relates to this article, I think.
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We are supposed to be so concerned with human rights and the environment, but whenever a ban on WMD of any type comes up, we either vote no, abstain, or if we have the power, we veto it.
No wonder the rest of the world has recognized us, and our government, as a bunch of hypocrites.
We worked our butts off electing Democrats with the expectation that they would fight to end the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and get our kids home.
We expected you to see that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights would be returned, intact and functioning, to the Halls of Government.
We wanted to see such things as the misnamed “Patriot Act” and the Military Commissions Act expunged.
We wanted to see an end to torture and renditions and gulags. We wanted to see an end to illegal surveillance and wire tapping of Americans.
What have we gotten? Token legislation with more money for the Bush Gang to prosecute war, no ban on nuking Iran or Syria, plenty of business as usual with lots of pork for the big money donors.
Above all, since the 2006 election, we have received thousands of appeals to give money and time preparing for the 2008 election.
If we follow those requests, all we can expect is appeals for more money starting in November 2008 for the 2010 elections, and more “business as usual” legislation to pay off the big money boys. And, no doubt, we’ll still be losing kids in Iraq and Afghanistan, if not Iran and Syria, too.
No, Senator Murray, I think the time has come for We the People of the United States of America to look deep into the cesspool that Washington DC has become and look for another way to solve our problems. The Democrats and the Republicans are definitely not the way to go.
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Now, we just have to find a party and candidates that are statesmen (or women) that have the interest of the country and the people at heart, instead of just trying to get into the “I’m for me” club that the rest of them belong to.
Up the People! Down the Bureaucrats!
If the madams azz is on Our table & impeachment is out, try resident bush & vice resident cheney for treason, war crimes, crimes against humanity & over 200 tons of DU has polluted the world for 6.5 billion yrs
I think that Meyerson’s quote just goes to show how weak the Democrats really are. It is painfully obvious that they still have not gotten the message, regardless of whether they have enough votes to impeach Bush and Cheney or not. Our message to them needs to be crystal clear: you have failed to do what your constituents wanted you to do. As a result, the consequence will be removal from office. According to Meyerson they want to “accomplish other stuff.” What other stuff could be more important than getting rid of a dictatorship??
I find it interesting that the L.A. Times itself tried to insinuate this group as being “fringe” - as some supposed “critics might call it” Having lived in West Hollywood for twent five years, I know better- the “Beverly Center Mall” area is considered Beverly Hills, and the activists in WeHo, Bev Hills etc are of all ages and mostly upper middle class and middle class incomes.
Shame shame on the L.A. Times for trying to belittle this group, although I’m glad they brought it to the publics attention. Millions of Americans want these freaks out of office now !
Don’t care about the politics of the situation. Congress, unless you believe no impeachable offenses could have been committed you must begin the investigations on who authorized the torture and the other possibly unconstitutional activities. Anything less and you violate the oath you took to defend and protect the constitution. The oath didn’t have an out for covering your political ass.
“Impeachment is a distraction since it’s not going to happen,” said Meyerson.
So-called “progressive” Harold Meyerson proves himself an anti-progressive, a saboteur, with such a statement.
There is nothing more to debate for true progressives. If the Democrats fail to impeach the criminals in the WH and/or vacate Iraq before election day 2008 they lose progressive votes. How many? Ooooh maybe a lot!
“The main thing is to defeat Republicans electorally.”
Mr. Meyerson, the main thing is NOT to defeat the Republicans electorally because true progressives know that means only more business as usual. Times have changed all right but the players in the game of influence inside the beltway will be the last to know, typically.
“Republican analyst Arnold Steinberg said an impeachment drive would help his side”
Whew! What planet do those Republicans live on?
Yen, impeachment is possible TODAY! The power is in the people’s hands. There it is!
MaxheMust, of course, investigations will be ongoing for years, until justice is served to all criminals involved. It’s very simple: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. We’re bringing down the whole idea, and everyone who supported it.
We are putting up a new idea: Halt the imperial agenda in the middle east and worldwide. Simple as that! Every culprit is going to get the message as we enforce the laws of the land, the treaty obligations, the impeachment clause, the oaths of office. We’re purging the whole gang of criminals, starting with the top two, and we’re restoring the rule of law in this country.
Look at all this fantastic progress in the impeachment movement. Excellent work! Let’s double it!!
“Distracting?” What the hell do the Democrats think we elected them for in 2006? They have done NOTHING! Get rid of Pelosi and get with it!
On the Judiciary Committee’s website, there is an email form for people to Contact the judiciary (http://judiciary.house.gov/Contact.aspx).
Maybe if we flood them with messages, they will get the idea. I just sent the following note:
“Out of respect for our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and Citizenry, and in the name of democracy, ethics, and justice, I urge you to seek impeachment for the endless list of abuses and crimes against humanity committed by this administration. I care not how “impractical”, messy or expensive it will be. This is not about YOU, or election strategy, or points gained or lost in the polls. It is about our right to hold our elected officials accountable for abusing our trust and their positions of power. No one should be above the laws that govern the limitations and separation of powers designed to prevent our descent into tyranny.
If you refuse to do this, you will have failed us and everything this country stands for. If you are too afraid, make your fears known. If you are waiting for certain poll results or for us to do something first, then make those conditions known. If you genuinely believe this administration has not committed acts deserving of impeachment, then let that be known. But DO NOT LOOK THE OTHER WAY in silent complicity as this administration destroys the very heart and soul of our country. Are we still a nation that believes in the rule of law, or do we silently accept the lawlessness of our rulers?”
Everyone seems to be overlooking one small fact in the impeachment debate. The reason why Bush will not be impeached is that as soon as such action is taken, he will plead insanity. And everyone knows he will be pleading the truth. Surely the quickest way to remove him from office is have the required number of prominent psychiatrists sign the appropriate forms for his committal.
Miranda
Fran,
You raise a good point, however, the politicians have paper shredders, and well, you can imagine what they will gladly do with our petitions. I think everyone is aware that we are in a situation that the Founders of our country desperately tried to avoid: having power slide entirely to monopolarism. The Democrats will not be able to impeach Bush and Cheney because they just do not have the numbers. So what is the populace to do when their President becomes a dictator, the Congress will do nothing to stop a totally unnecesary war, and a judiciary has swung to the conservative end? Some people would suggest an all out violent and bloody revolution. Maybe it is time for another civil war in this country. Others would suggest mass civil disobedience in the form of sit-ins, work stoppages, blocking streets and freeways, etc. And then others would suggest peacefully demonstrating and pressuring political representatives to do something. The last option clearly is not working, so we are left in a tough situation, and the question is where to go from here? It is heartening to see marches being organized, and petitions being signed, but will they be enough? Sadly we have eighteen more months under this dictatorship, and then who knows what we will have after that? I think it is time for all of us to collectively put our heads together, formulate a plan, and follow through with it. Any ideas??
Bush is not insane. Psychopaths are not insane. They know right from wrong. They just don’t care. They are only without consciences and ‘wired’ to act without any concern of who they might hurt. The laws broken are the only path. Invasion of Iraq was illegal and, under US law and international treaty, a “war crime”, the first of many. Our Congress never authorized Bush to break the law. The big problem is that everybody who followed illegal orders was also breaking the law.
To all who are feeling proud and smug this day about having the “first” impeachment storefront in the nation — sit down!1 While your cause is justified in every way shape & form, there was another “Impeach Bush & Cheney” storefront in Oakland Ca., with it’s own keynote speaker, Congresswoman Barbara Lee D- Oak. giving her support. Barbara was the second U.S. Representative to sign on to Dennis Kucinich’s impeachment bill, and the ONLY representative who VOTED AGAINST GIVING BUSH THE AUTHORIZATION TO GO TO WAR in 2001.
The Oakland storefront was the work of Oakland cab driver Brad Newsham, who was also the mastermind behind the “Beach Impeach” project (the aerial photographed spectacular spelling out the words “IMPEACH” on SanFrancisco’s Ocean beach, in 100′ letters, using 1010 human bodies; first on the 6th of January, and again on the 28th of April both of this year) The Apr. 28th version spelled out in 150′ letters the words “IMPEACH NOW!” using nearly 1800 people, and also sparked world-wide projects of the same kind, in NY, Washington, Atlanta, Rome, and Paris, to name a few.
So while I applaud your motives there in Beverly, put your attention needing egos aside, and give credit where credit is due. You are the SECOND such storefront!
canuckchuck
“high crimes and misdemenors”? ? ? ?
how about murder, genocide, treason
this shit is off the charts and beyond any law book description or Geneva Convention, these fuckers need to be hung, decapitated etc. for what they’ve done to the Iraqi’s, the world and us. The USA is over and it will continue to be over unless we physically burn our government to the ground. Sure call your senator or rep, etc. work within the system. the system exists for us only as an illusion to make us think we have a say. The Buddha is inside me but the only way to even realistically think of dealing with Bush Co. is to fill your barn, basement, attic, closet or whatever full of guns, lots of fucking guns with cases of ammo.
It can’t happen here, la di da di da da da,
most of you will think of me as radical, too far left wing, or militant. i’m a graphic designer and musician/multi-track recorder
I support Impeachment 100%. I voted Democrat last fall, for the first time, in the hopes for a Bush-Cheney Impeachment. If Nancy Pelosi and Conyers do not immediately reverse their previous sellout on the issue, my first time Democratic vote will be my last. As recently as 8 years ago I was a Republican and I supported Clinton’s Impeachment over trivia. The irony nowadays–that we cannot remove a couple of insane crooks who think torture prisons are good policy–is making my head swim.
There is ample material to Impeach Bush; indeed, there was prior to this latest outrage! If the Democrats in Congress do not try Bush they are puling, worthless, wretched, whining, cowardly, traitorous, crooked, sellout SCUM!
Paul from Texas wrote:
“… As recently as 8 years ago I was a Republican and I supported Clinton’s Impeachment over trivia. …”.
Well, he definitely deserved to be impeached, but also put to war crimes trial, and possibly other trials, like for economic treason in the national, USA scope; however, and while his penus business with Ms Lewinsky, or whatever her name was, not being important enough to me for me to make a point of making sure to correctly remember her name; well, he didn’t deserve to be impeached over the latter matter, which could’ve very easily been addressed, if we actually had an honest country, which we evidently and greatly lack, it could’ve been a case dealt with by the application of, f.e., “DO NOT do that messing around while you’re in the govt office, go to a brothel after hours, say” and maybe a fine, or at least a recorded history of US govt, whatever.
He was and definitely remains war criminal, and criminal in terms of economics, with his criminally negligent, to say the least of what the judgement merits to be, complicity in “helping” to wipe out the economic livelihoods, employabilities, … of American high-tech professionals in both engineering and computer fields, F.E. That merited him not only being impeached and thrown out on his head, but also put on trial and for both of his crimes, the war and the economic ones.
So don’t feel bad ‘Paul from Texas’; you sided with impeachment which was deserving, right, and just didn’t do it for the right reason. You Oopsed in the reasoning or reasons, but still got the impeachment part right.
Paul then goes on to say:
“The irony nowadays – that we cannot remove a couple of insane crooks who think torture prisons are good policy – is making my head swim.
There is ample material to Impeach Bush; indeed, there was prior to this latest outrage! If the Democrats in Congress do not try Bush they are puling, worthless, wretched, whining, cowardly, traitorous, crooked, sellout SCUM!”.
Scum? True, very clearly so. FIENDS and as if they’re really allied with the really demon kind. True; I figure and add.
Insane? PSYCHOPATHS; I figure. After all, we can be insane without being psychopathic; we can be insane to significantly and certainly more welcome degrees; though insanity is rather never a welcome reality, but while the psychopathic extremes definitely are to be STOPPED. And we can be psychopathic in terms of how we treat others, other people, as well as environmentally. After all, mess up our environment, and we mess up lives of other people, unjustly; criminally, really. People can be insane without being this in criminal or violent ways; but that does not fit with psychopaths.
A dictionary that I use over the Internet, TheFreeDictionary.com, says that ‘psychopath’ has been (since when being something I don’t know) superseded by or with ’sociopath’, but there’s a critical problem with this decision. Why? As per above; we can also be socipathic without being this to psychopathic extremes.
Who went and made that superseding decision? A bunch of people trying to help provide some cover for the Cheney, Bush, … administration? It’d be a fitting reason, though not ethically fitting; only being fitting in the sense that they are psychopathically MAD, violent, greedy, etc., and while they don’t get the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, tens of thousands, if not more, Afghans, perhaps millions of Africans, thousands or tens of thousands of Americans, etc., on their hands, directly; they’re still the leaders of all of this hell that they rein in on HUMANITY.
Impeach psychopaths? Why are we hestitant, why isn’t it happening, why are so many people allying themselves with psychpathic madness to the point of hellishly refusing to impeach these psychopatic “rulers”, and put them on trials for their crimes; as well as going after their main supporters and controllers? There’s no valid reason for such hesitation; and calling it hestitation is the least that can be said of what it’s all really about, this totally devoid or morality and law-abidance refusal, to impeach AND put these batards de l’humanité (bastard(ization)s of humanity) on trial.
There’s absolutely no valid reason for that refusal of Congress, which by refusing, it is ONLY OBSTRUCTING JUST and DUE PROCESS of law and governance or govt. That makes Congress as criminal as the Bush, …, administration is; if not more criminal. It IS Congress that authorized the war, though only on the contingency that Saddam Hussein refused to comply with the UN, intl weapons inspections, which he even more than adequately did comply with. That made it immediately criminal to launch the war, and it means that Congress has been criminally complicit, minimally complicit, all along.
Ignorance is NO excuse for a body like the US Congress. NO WAY, José. And we’re not faring any better with the DP than before it was elected to majority power last November. Congress has NO excuses for us to consider; the sole consideration for Americans and the rest of humanity to consider is that Congress is so far and extremely criminally complicit, and that it has only ONE choice.
IMPEACH, but without stopping there. WE NEED WAR CRIMES TRIALS and for I guess most members of the Cheney, Bush, … administration; among plenty of other people, including from the corp. msm news media. Of course it’s likely too unrealistic to believe that so many people could really put on trial for their war crimes, which are all provable based on established laws, including the one about treason; but all of these people nonetheless deserve nothing less, than to all be put on extremely high crimes trials.
It’s the very least that they all deserve; just that it’s surely not a practical idea to think that such a large number of people could be really addressed in this totally JUST way.
Clinton and members of his presidential administration also should be tried for their crimes of war and against humanity; including the economic racketeering crimes committed against Americans.
The list for all of this would be long enough, indeed; surely.
But the country, as do too many other countries, “prefer” to criminalize people over relatively minor crimes, as well as actually non-crimes, not being of unethical nature.
We live among a populace that has been too brainwashed, dumbed down, rendered very, very ignorant; because we too often do NOT do our part to read or learn in broad terms, being too narcissistic, etc. We do not have any excuses for this reality, for it IS a citizen’s DUTY to make sure to think broadly, very comprehensively, etc. We have the citizen’s duty to exist in responsible terms, and we do not do that if we sit back and allow our ignorance to help cause us to make criminal decisions.
F.e., when there’s govt talk of launching war, the very FIRST position to responsibly take is ‘NO’, ‘NO WAY, JOSE’; after which, and only if we can be very, very seriously convinced that warring is justified, which is only possibly when it is strictly for matter of defence, well, then we can reconsider, we can then consider that we do have to defend.
Note the extreme contrast between that principle and the way nearly 80% of Americans supported launching the war on Iraq; including after we had been totally clearly informed that Saddam Hussein complied with the weapons inspections wholly well enough.
Also note the extreme contrast in the context in which Pres. G.W. Bush said, and to the whole nation and world, preceding the launching of the war on Afghanistan, supposedly the Taliban, though we know that it’s more than only about war on and with them; well, when he said that they had had NOTHING at all to do with the attacks in the US on Sep. 11, 2001. This IMMEDIATELY told us, if we cared to give any serious thought to LIFE, that the war could NOT be justified. He said that they had had NOTHING to do with the Sep. 11, 2001, attacks; POINT FINAL. We do and did NOT need any more understanding than this in order to KNOW that the war could NOT be justified.
Nasty fellows towards women, but far from the sole men in this world who are nasty and worse towards women; and war is NOT the way to try to correct such, say, deviations in behaviour. NO, war is not the way to try to resolve such rights abuses.
PEACE MAKER IS THE WAY, for it clearly infers trying to work to help to establish peace, but this also and inherently infers the need to work on trying to stop or bring a stop to injustices. Without Peace, there’ll be NO Justice, and without the latter, we won’t have the former. They’re spouses, a married pairing, and are certainly excellent TOGETHER. Beautiful couple, indeed.
So, anyway, we’re now mired (in MUCK) over our heads, to say the least of what the situation is.
We have extremely rogue govts; militarily and economically, but while we can “count” on the former being due to the latter kind of interests. ‘WAR IS A RACKET’!, former and highly honourable USMC Major General Smedley D. Butler wrote, and “man”, was he VERY right; irrefutably right. The only time he’d be mistaken is when we consider the defence side, but then it exists only because of the aggression side, which does not aggress for unprofitable goals. ‘WAR IS A RACKET’, and, so, he was rather wholy right, therefore.
Kay Griggs, she has some very complementary account for people to very carefully consider; or at least it’s my impression based on what I’ve read of the account she provides. We can find articles about what she says, as well as a 7.5-hour interview at KayGriggsTalks (or maybe …Talk, and either .com or .org, but just doing a search on KayGriggsTalks should turn up the link and like at the top of the first page of search results).
We also have, and among much more, the following, f.e. I have not had the time yet to read what these say, except enough to know what the topic’s about; and based on that, the information provided via the links below strike me as important to carefully read, etc.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Business+Plot
That is a wide-text format of Wikipedia and on the following topic.
Quote: “The Business Plot, The Plot Against FDR, or The White House Putsch, was a conspiracy involving several wealthy businessmen to overthrow President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933.
Purported details of the matter came to light when retired Marine Corps General Smedley Butler testified before a Congressional committee that a group of men had attempted to recruit him to serve as the leader of a plot and to assume and wield power once the coup was successful. Butler testified before the McCormack-Dickstein Committee in 1934 [1]. …
…”
But I first learned of the history’s existence via the following, below.
According to the book (update VIII, at least, being available for free and online, while updates X and XI, Nov. 2006 and Feb. 2007, are available via Amazon.com), below, the history was provided by Jules Archer as of 1973 (with some updates since). The book, at least until last November, 2006, was no longer in publication.
He provides a free online copy of update VIII, and there are updates X and XI via Amazon.com, for which links are provided at the mirror site.
Anyway, and much more to the point, this is about how rich power-elites, apparently American and others, wanted to get former USMC Major General Smedley D. Butler to lead a paramilitary coup (what I call ‘coup’ anyway) agaisnt former US Pres. FDR, to try to make his administration fascist, while of a kind definitely according to corporatism, imo. And Butler, patriotic as he was, exposed this plot.
He did that including to the US federal govt committee.
The version or update VIII copy can be read freely via the following ICH link, which is a ToC (table of contents) index page.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13906.htm
The mirror for the book and at clubhousewreckards.com, which is linked in the above ICH page, provides the links for updates X and XI at Amazon; as well as other links; while I did not yet verify what the latter are for. I’ve only noted this much, so far.
I haven’t yet read version VIII of the book, so cannot comment on it; but if accurate in terms of saying what Gen. Butler said, and I would guess that there’s much accuracy, given the US govt federal govt committee testimonies, then this should be a very useful book to learn from. It should be useful to help to wake people up.
So, what about TODAY? There are AWFULLY few fitting candidates for the 2008 US Presidential election, sadly. A lot of Americans are apparently pro-Barack Obama, but he’s been warmonger enough since he became a US Senator; he’s sided with I believe even nuking Iran, or at least war on Iran, and this is a NO WAY, JOSE, matter; absolutely NOT, sort of matter. The man, as far as what I’ve gathered so far, CANNOT be trusted.
Ron Paul’s not bad, being very right about the US Constitution forbiding US warring the way we’ve too long had now, and maybe being right, enough anyway, on some other matters. But he’s evidently, apparently anyway, not siding with universal (not single-payer but universal) healthcare for Americans, which is NEEDED; and he sure does communicate as if totally oblivious of the fact that it is at least very likely that the Cheney, Bush, … administration had a hand, part in the attacks of Sep. 11, 2001; a matter which Dennis Kucinich has promised to have an investigation on this coming fall, Sept. I think. And MIKE GRAVEL sure does strike me as a great candidate for 2008.
We have a recently posted article at CD on Daniel Ellsberg supporting Mike Gravel at the recent 35th anniversay of the release of the Pentagon Papers, an article that everyone should carefully read, definitely note. And we have not many but other very qualitative articles on Mike Gravel; I guess including from or by, though am not sure if any of those I read were actually by him. These others were good, provided some real ‘light’, but I think the article with Dan. Ellsberg’s support is ever more important.
Other than that, I don’t know of any of the people presently trying to run as candidates being anything better than very unworthy of my vote or support; most are worthy of being treated as CRIMINALS, imho.
Paul is worrisome in terms of the above two points or matters, so …; maybe one less candidate to merit my vote. It’s great that he’s for the US Constitution the way he is, or at least speaks and writes, but he’s in need of getting the other two matters right; imo. We need universal healthcare, and countries that provide this for their populations do greatly, as long as the US does not despotically again mess up these countries. And that we sidestep around the 9-11 issue, we have again and another very serious problem of lack of govt oversight, responsibility. It’s clearly enough a day that was not totally new, being based in or upon prior history that too many Americans, among other people, just haven’t learned about.
Like former Gen. Butler wrote, ‘WAR IS A RACKET’(!), and it’s TIME FOR PEOPLE TO WAKE UP TO THIS REALITY. It’s been happening for far too long, and people need to finally wake up. We must think critically, realistically, in terms of what is reality-based for or of human conduct, so definitely including what govts and “elites” can and do (sometimes, or too often) do; and so on. We must cease living as if we are nothing but ignorant lemmings, though we’ve been far worse, for they’re innocence; we’re NOT. We have ethical responsibilities that lemmings are totally incapable of even being aware of, much less living by.
Imo.
Impeaching Clinton was right; just that it was done for the wrong and a rather despotic reason. Despotic? Sure; they did not impeach him for his war and other crimes against humanity. That’s despotic enough, imo.
Clinton’s a war criminal, and so is, very minimally, MAD ALDIM, i.e., usually known by the name of Mad. Albright. (Ain’t no shed of light in her, imo.) But I don’t think that they’re credibly the sole two people to be war criminals from that SICK administration; and I would not trust the former v.p. further than I could throw a 2-ton boulder, which is like not at all. If innocent, then he can account for this, but I don’t understand how v.p., who is what I consider to be the next-in-line to become p., if something happened to the latter, is innocent when the presidential administration is extremely guilty of war and other crimes, at least not when the general public can SEE that these crimes are indeed real. Well, not unless the v.p. honourably opts to speak out against these crimes, anyway. Clinton’s v.p. stayed profitably silent; and this IS a matter that ethically should else needs to be answered for, IMO.
I have a lot of opinions, imo’s, eh? Yep, you’re right. I will “surgically dissect” all that strikes me as being of IMPORTANT matter; can’t help it, it’s just MY way, nature. Problem is when lacking adequate information for the surgical dissections, but we can and should rely on sane, sound commonsense when it’s sufficient; only, too few people appear to possess this talent or trait, and definitely too few exercise the trait.
When we want to be FIT, then we need to exercise; and it applies to a lot more than only for physical fitness, which is important, but still secondary, to moral, ethical fitness. Seems that too many people lack the ability to exercise sound commonsense; or too many just lack this ability, altogether, which is more frightening reality. We can have books or tutorials for teaching usage of Microsoft bla bla bla, or Linux bla …, but when it comes to politics and geopolitics, which encompasses economics, justice, peace, we need to work on being acutely in tune with sound, healthy, and therefore holistic ethics.
Holistic? Yes. We need to be holistic. It only means, in this context anyway, that we don’t think only about ourselves, but rather universally; that we MUST CARE FOR ALL OF HUMANITY, which also means to not pollute and destroy our natural environments.
It fits strongly well with sound commonsense, which NO schools teach us. Academia, at least per se, does NOT teach commonsense; teaches common way, but ‘way’ does not need to involve anything sensible, that often being absent. ‘Sense’ is about reason, commonsense is about reasoning for the common good; and ‘way’, heh, rather everyone follows some way, just that awfully few of the power elites follow the commonsense way.
I think it’s Aristotle, or maybe Aquinas, one of these old philosophers anyway, who argued that ‘commonsense’ MUST be understood in terms of being rational and in accord with what is healthy for society, life in general; not based on individual bias, so not based on greed, etc. I came across this on the Internet, and I believe at some website in the UK or England, and some philosophy site or section thereof; but don’t recall which website this is found in. Wikipedia might possibly provide a or some links though; but what’s plain and very simple to understand is that if we are social beings, which we ARE, then we MUST think and live according to the common good, what’s good for society and therefore the world in general terms.
Use and apply that sort of reasoning, and it becomes ever more clear that Gen. Butler was right about opposing the plotted coup against former US Pres. FDR’s presidency and therefore the US govt and USA, in whole; as well as when he wrote that based on his many years, decades of USMC experience, ‘WAR IS A RACKET’. Unquestionably right in that was he, imo.
We can’t get around it; we’re mired in muck over our heads. There’s major trouble right now, and by far MOST people don’t know the half of what all of this is about. And we have much “thanks” to give to the corp. msm news media, which is too much war criminal, also, but also works in a manner that is either intentionally, or not, to keep the masses DUMBED down, very ignorant, and misbelieving that lies are truths, while truths are supposedly lies, disinfo., …. We are MIRED IN MUCK OVER OUR HEADS; we’re deep in the mires of muckery.
We also have the example that the IRCC, Intl Red Cross …, whatever it’s called, during the first year or two of this present war on Iraq. What did the organization reveal? It revealed that it has historically had agreement(s) with govt(s) to not expose govt crimes or war crimes against detainees in war contexts; definitely so with respect to the US govt anyway. In so doing, the organization acted AGAINST democratic principles, which include that citizens need to vote responsible, and which we can’t but “magically” or accidentally do, when we are kept ignorant of our govt’s crimes.
I think the IRCC at least partly corrected that anti-democratic agreement that it had, but am not sure to what extent, and am not sure that the organization can be trusted to seriously enough make this correction. Trust? Who? Humanitarian organizations, so-called anyway, often do contribute and profit from actions against human rights, and many are otherwise very ignorant (at least do certainly seem to be) of much of what’s really going on, only looking at what they can witness with their own eyes, without THINKING FURTHER; without seriously thinking about why it is that what they witiness is actually happening. It’s a bandaids approach; not a solutionary one.
Bandaids are of very little usefulness. We NEED real solutions.
Don’t worry. Whether people vote for a RP or a DP candidate for the next presidency, we have little hope to look forward to. Obama, who many Americans are supposedly supporting, and who has far more funding to continue his parade scam campaigning, he sided with war on Iran, and all WITHOUT A SINGLE IOTA OF JUSTIFICATION; absolutely none. Want hell on Earth to continue? Then he’s a viable candidate. He provided the proof; not me.
MOST of Congress is criminal.
Maybe it’s just me.
But I think when a group of men conspire to commit a felony (fraud) and in so doing they murder THOUSANDS of innocent people, including children, just to make a buck, then they ought to face a penalty just a tad more harsh than early retirement.
Impeachment is all very well and good as far as it goes. It’s a constitutional imperative. But at this point it isn’t a question of whether Bush & Co will “get away with it” because if the only thing that happens is that King George has to pack up his comic books 15 minutes earlier than scheduled, then they HAVE gotten away with it.
Should have impeached that son of a Bush in 2002.
Just a little bit late now. He’s run amok for nearly 8 years. And we’ve let him.
The blood isn’t just on HIS hands, it’s on OURS.
Just how do we atone for THAT?
I don’t see how impeachment alone can restore anything of our national integrity or spirit.
SJ
www.spartacusjones.com
For all those saying impeachment isn’t possible — how can you know this? Moreover, let me ask you this simple question. Do you want impeachment or not? If you want it then don’t denigrate it. If you don’t want it, then put forth your rationale as best you can. But please don’t just say: “Ah it will never happen so lets not even try”. In my humble opinion, this is not helpful and I’d suggest that those who are thinking this way need to do something that will lift their spirits. Go for a walk in the neighborhood or read a good book. You know where I’m coming from? Dismal talk is self-fulfilling.
If enough of us want it, then I say it is possible. Lets be practical and realistic, but perhaps even more importantly lets not bury a good idea just because of perceived dim hopes.
For all those saying impeachment doesn’t get to the “heart of the matter”. Well, we have to start somewhere don’t we. I think impeachment is the best first step possible. There are mechanisms for it already in place and it can be done in an orderly manner. Plus, think about it. Information that we can’t even imagine now is likely to surface during the hearings. This can be the start of something big and possibly something good for the US.
Lastly, I say lets start with Cheney. Even if it just gets through the House, something good will have been accomplished and it could mark the start of “turning the tide”.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
* I support HRes333 - Impeach the VP
***** time is of the essence *****
So we get a few schmucks from the corporate political class that tell us all that noise and grumbling in the street isn’t Americans clamoring for accountability, we’re really just begging for them to fuck us a little harder.
Much as I favor impeachment, CDers need to give serious thought to the point made in the article that impeachment might slow a troop withdrawal and delay the end of the Iraq War. That may prove to be the case.
If you have to choose between impeachment and a timely end to the occupation, do you still favor impeachment?
If we are ever going to have a gram of self-repect as a nation again, this whole administration needs to be impeached in one big impeachment proceedings. If for no other reason than to send a message to future President’s you can’t get away with high crimes against the US and the World. I really believe now it was a terrible mistake to pardon Nixon. He should have never received a pardon. He should have spent the rest of his life with the charges hanging over his head. Just so he could serve as a example of what happens when you think you are above the law.
Join the George W. Bush Movin’ Out Campaign!
Friends, Families, Activist Groups:
Send MOVING BOXES with personal messages for GWB to the White House!
YouTube Instructional Video…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB6PNTKM2xg
B.ring
U.S.
S.oldiers
H.ome!
they all walk on eggshells. their main priority is to get re-elected. whatever is right or wrong makes no difference to them. they sold their integrity a long time ago to corporate interests. THEY ARE ALL DIRTY!
Waters can’t cite a single senate filibuster, bimbo or “secret” holder associate?
“Impeachment is a distraction since it’s not going to happen,” : “progressive” non sequitur.
“This gambit will excite the leftist base but marginalize reasonable Democrats and alienate independent voters - and motivate Republicans. I can only say, ‘Grow up and get a life.’ Or, better yet, ‘Go for it.’ You’ll end up sinking Democratic Party prospects for 2008″ : Discouraging “equal time” Bushist FEAR tactics?
What sort of self-defeating Colmes and Hannity column is this?
IMPEACH ALL eligible Bushists for US and our Constitution’s sake!
I see so many voices of descent and discontent, a lot of good suggestions as to what to do to put things right, and they’re all going to go to waste. You know why? Because you’re not organized.
You read the bad stuff, you righteously get pissed, you post your comment and read others’, and then that’s it, nothing, Nada. You do the same thing the next day, and the next day, and the next day. But you haven’t moved an inch from where you were the fist day. You know why? Because you’re not organized.
Like-minded people should have an organization so that they can pool their resources together, so that they can be easily reached and notified, so that they can act and act in unison. A progressive organization like Common Dreams that has established its credentials to the progressive community is a good example, because we all come here. This is our meeting place. We may not, and should not, start an organization from the scratch for fear that some moles may get into it. Because we, the posters on this site, don’t really know one another, do we?
Let’s all ask Common Dreams to take on this task and to organize us, to show us the best course of action, so that when we act, we all act together, so that our actions are effective, so that our spineless and corrupt representatives will take notice of us. This should be the first step towards anything we want to do. Unless we organize, nothing will happen. Nothing, Nada, waste of time, and just blowing some steam.
I hereby would like to request the Common Dreams to get us all together and act as our organization.
For some great bumper stickers, check out this site http://www.libertystickers.com/impeach_bush.htm
What a refreshing article about grassroots democracy in action. And let’s not forget to thank those California Green Party activists who continue to put the pressure on the corporate Democrats in elected seats of power to actually do something about impeachment! Notice how Democrat Rep. Maxine Waters couldn’t come up with ONE single Democratic Senator’s name to bring impeachment to the Senate floor? NOT ONE DEMOCRAT! Disgusting.
There should be an Impeachment Headquarters in every state! But don’t wait for corporate Democratic Party members to start one. It will be Independents, Socialists and Green Party members if any more were to pop up. I loved how the two young new voters, after they saw activism in action, said they chose to join the Green Party! I think they saw the light real fast. The time is right!
Other than the 14 or so progressive Dems in the House, the whole bunch should be tossed.
Wow! Talk about Powerful views, and thoughts!
Alas though, whatever way Bush and his evil cohorts go -impeached or finishing the term, they are like the cat that pissed in the basement- you can clean it up, but the smell stays forever.
Are bush and cheney your worst President and Vice President you ever had? We’ve had some bad leaders, but nobody has done such blatantly unfair and unjust things as those 2 in your country. That whole group shows a complete lack of morals of any kind. It would not surprise me that the whole 911 drama was …
You guys have to take back your government. Remember, those people are supposed to work FOR you. And represent YOU on the world stage. Demand that all candidates pass a morality test (as well as IQ tests), and that their full backgrounds and history are checked. Maybe you guys should do another TV show: Who Wants To be President or something like that. You know, something like American Idol. They go on there, throw in a pile of crackpots too, for comedy so your audiences down there will watch, put in that drama that is part of those shows, and have the phone lines open to vote ‘em off. At the end, you vote for the final one for President!
If anything, at least more people will vote. And yes, all people caught cheating will lose their hands!
Today is Monkey Man Bush’s birthday. I bet his admirer, Nancy Pelosi, had a big party for him. She adores him and called him a “lovely” man……….LOL
Are the Democrats in Congress really listening? Are they really representing the interests of the American electorate? Other than Kucinich and his merry band of men( and women) in the House, I’d say most either don’t want to tackle the problem of impeachment or have been told not to even think it for one reason or another. (You know…the dark monster behind the curtain) It would behoove each and everyone of them to wake up to what the PEOPLE want. They could start by listening to Matt Rothchild’s plea for impeachment on his Progressive Radio show for starters.
http://www.progressive.org/radio_20june07
I would like to take this opportunity to thank Common Dreams for providing this excellent forum.
It SUCKS that “global money” is what it takes to keep even good ventures in place, but such is the world we live in today.
I have made a contribution to Common Dreams and I encourage others to do likewise. I encourage Common Dreams to keep in mind the challenges of creating an open & fair forum where all have a chance to be heard. At some future time, there may be value in publishing some sort of “forum principles”, so that the communication can be kept as fair as possible for all participants.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
* I support HRes333 - Impeach the VP
** I support “Summer of Love 07″ walking journey **
*** time, oh time…..
Here is another sort of “thinking out loud” kind of idea. I hope I’m not talking to myself here, but even if I am, who cares.
Common Dreams could create another forum at the site where discussion is generally on “more casual” or “more focussed” topics. This could provide a better opportunity for folks who frequent the site to get to know each other better.
Just an idea.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
P.S. I know this stuff all costs funds, I am willing to provide funds. I hope others are to.
I would encourage everyone who has not already seen it, to track down the 7/15 re-broadcast of Bill Moyers’ journal, watch it, and then e-mail Mr. Meyerson of the American Prospect, and every other Democrat leader who thinks that winning an election is more important than upholding the consitution. This president is establishing precedents that will haunt us for years. As for the argument that the Democrats want to “do something” not only has this congress failed to do anything, the Democratic controlled congress during Watergate had no trouble accomplishing many things. This is just a “strawman” argument, and Mr. Meyerson should know better.