Throw A Pebble At Goliath: Don’t Buy Israeli Produce
“The boycott campaign is not really about what happens in the Middle East but about what happens in our unions, on our campuses and in our public discourse. The damage that it does in the UK is that it disables political work in solidarity with those who fight for peace in the Middle East by polarising opinion around an artificial and destructive issue.”
So writes David Hirsh on Comment is free, on the vote next Wednesday at a conference held by the University and College Union (UCU), arguing against what he calls “the boycott movement”.
So the boycott movement allegedly “disables political work in solidarity with those who fight for peace in the Middle East” does it? Is that the same political work that is so highly effective that the only major change since the 1970s, when I regularly reported from the region, is of a profound deterioration in all aspects of life for ordinary Palestinians?
In contributing his blog, David Hirsh ironically illustrates precisely why the boycott movement has an impact. It clears a space in the public arena which, in the UK and the USA, is normally hopelessly biased in favour of Israel - not least because Zionist supporters of Israel in both countries have money and political clout on a scale the Palestinians cannot hope to match.
While we frequently see and hear about the lives of ordinary Israelis, whether illegally settled on the West Bank or endeavouring to live under harrowing rocket bombardment or simply “being” Israelis - when was the last time the reality of day-to-day life in the refugee camps was regularly portrayed?
Back in the 1970s, long before the war on terror was launched, we tried to do precisely that for the now defunct current affairs series Weekend World. John Birt, its editor, fought furiously to have the film screened, but the battle with his superiors at LWT was lost. The film was shelved, deemed, “propaganda”.
Regardless of the rhetoric of some of those advocating a boycott, one hopes that the majority of us are not so naive or so daft as to think that the issue of the Middle East, as Hirsh suggests, splits into a simplistic polarisation of Israel - bad; Palestine - good. Or that excluding Israeli Jewish academics from UK campuses, journals and conferences is anything more than an attack on the right to freedom of speech.
However, a double standard pertains. The Israeli treatment of Palestinians shows a total disregard for human rights. Apartheid doesn’t seem to me to be too strong a word - and its consequence, as many have pointed out, is a recruitment drive for Islamic fundamentalists.
In this month’s New Internationalist, psychiatrist Samah Jabr, describes his work in Ramallah and Jericho and the “mental health emergency” under way. For a population of 3.8 million, there are 15 psychiatrists and disastrously too few nurses, psychologists and support staff. He points out that 53% of the population is under 17 - especially vulnerable to family deaths, absent fathers and constant warfare.
Add poverty, affecting 67% of the population, unemployment at 40%, 20% of the population are prisoners and ex-prisoners, many suffering the psychiatric after-effects of isolation, and the daily violence does the rest.
Palestinian factionalism and Israel’s brutal retaliation, plus its pre-emptive strikes and demolition of homes hits the Palestinian people with a savagery that destroys any semblance of normal living. (The ordinary Palestinians in the Lebanon are again paying the heaviest price.) Of course, ordinary Israelis are affected too - but their community remains robust, well cared-for, with needs met. Psychological trauma, for many Israelis, is at best held at bay and at worst given help. Hundreds of Israeli political prisoners are not rotting in Palestinian jails.
A boycott is neither self-indulgent gesture politics nor an indicator of powerlessness, as Hirsh suggests. It is an international protest against the way in which Israel behaves on a daily basis in an area that will, in all probability, never see peace.
June 9 sees the Global Day of Action on Palestine. Throw a pebble at Goliath - don’t spend your pennies on Israeli produce.
Yvonne Roberts has been an award winning journalist, writer and broadcaster for over 30 years.
© 2007 The Guardian
Well, didn’t a couple of decent folks leave the Guardian.
Can I recommend again:
Christian Antisemtism: A History of Hate by William Nichols.
Hard to believe that people make their living in this way.
Yes, call Israel Golaith, call a billion of Muslims (with Saudis, Kuwajtis, Dubais.. etc, and oil, oil, oil) David.
Black is white, white is black.
“Yes, call Israel Golaith, call a billion of Muslims (with Saudis, Kuwajtis, Dubais.. etc, and oil, oil, oil) David.”
Yes, Israel is the “Goliath” to powerless Palestine. Israel is the most armed, powerful and aggressive nation in the region. I have boycotted it for years but it is only a tool of the largest “Goliath,” The US. It is the US that should be boycotted by all civilized peoples and nations until we desist from behaving like a renegade state, hold our criminal leaders responsible for their crimes, and adhere to civilized norms and international law.
Ok, guys, come here, come all, have a party.
Spend you weekend.
Bye.
Ah, looked at her picture. She looks like Ann Coulter, just much meaner.
see ya.
My question is: “What does an Israeli carrot look like?”
I know this is a serious issue, but with all the links and text in this article, I still don’t know how to boycott Israeli produce if I wanted to!
Wait a minute, by “produce” is this Brit meaning “that which is produced” by Israel? I’m sorry, but it occurred to me that I actually don’t speak English…
An excellent collection of essays. Short book but very respected authors:
http://www.easycartsecure.com/CounterPunch/images/002_lg.gif
And if ya thoought comics were fer kids, here’s a “funny book” that will make you weep. Very, very well done by Joe Sacco:
http://www.answers.com/topic/palestine-sacco-comic
and finally, I don’t drink starbucks coffee……so what?
am I saving the world, or is it just the rught thing to do?
-Punk-
Lewis Lapham tends to repeat a story of a father who forbade his son to marry a journalist. He was less reluctant to allow him to marry a professional prostitute.
By the way, what all those Saudis do with their oil money?
Corrupt the world?
It’s true, the Goliath metaphor is inaccurate for Israel.
Sadly, (and I say this with all due respect) Israel may have become “only a paper moon over a cardboard tree,” and people have stopped believing in it because of the absurd actions of its incompetent and misguided government, which has totally deserted its mission.
The mission of Israel is to defend a principal and the people who are supposed to stand for that principal. A similar catastrophe is taking place in the USA, but it is not as tragic. This is because the USA has not positioned itself as a guiding light of perfection of human justice and merciful rationality, but rather as an experiment in evolving democracy for all.
The USA is at present a failing system, but things could still improve (though it looks highly unlikely ).
Israel on the other hand is totally off message, totally derailed from its perceived and logical positioning.
You’ve got a country based on minority survival, based on adherence to bedrock honesty and truth, which is trying desperately to fake its way into dominating a vast, vastly larger majority on a global scale. A scarab is a small tough and indestructible thing. Israel has become a big oversized scarab, bloated with military industrial backscratching corruption. This could bring it down.
For Israel to survive, it must reform, it must show greater courage. It must widen its concept of nationality, revitalize its religious identity, and moral identity and also make a constructive dialogue with muslims and begin to assimilate muslims into its own culture without prejudice.
Israel today is run by people who think they can out-BS the BS oriented establishment which was labeled goyim. It reminds me to the Bob Fosse movie “All That Jazz.” Bob Fosse used this expression in the theatre: “Don’t try to BS a BSer.” Israel is trying to do that, and it’s moving toward destruction as a result. Look, stick with principles, honesty, courage, justice…Israel. What’s the use of faking it. Then you’re not “Israel” any more anyway.
Sacred things are protected by nature. So, reform!
Israel must also reduce the class oriented foolishness and oligarchic striving that is destroying its integrity.
Naturally, Israel’s derailment, its descent into machiavellianism (might over right politics) terrifies rational jews around the globe, who see the dangerous whirpool of old world antisemitism (directed at jews specifically, since the term can be applied just as correctly to hatred of Arabs), ready to engulf us all, due to the misguided yahooism, and recklessness of the power crazed neocons, who have used the mandate of jewish solidarity and self sufficiency even to the use of arms as a front for their selfish and immoderate aims.
Israel has a future as a “Jewish Democracy,” just as the Arab states will soon have their “Muslim Democracies.” “Jewish Democracy,” and “Muslim Democracy” can live side by side, since they are essentially the same thing. It is on this level that dialogue must be created.
In fact, Israel stands to gain a huge number of new adherents this way, and to actually begin to truly flourish.
This kind of thinking is the future. Bloodshed is not the future, it is the beginning of the end of all time.
Israel should reverse its role in the Arab world. It would do much better to help Arabs dialogue with the USA, then to be an agent of the USA in its dominance over world oil supplies.
You see, it comes to the same thing for Israel. And actually, would achieve a much better result for the USA: greater stability, and assured power.
The stumbling is the inability to share profits. A profit sharing plan has to start being implemented that includes the dispossessed. I’m sure there are negotiators who can clarify this sticky point.
C’mon, creativity is the solution here, not more bombing of civilian territories. This just makes things worse. Actually, Israel is committing terrorism against itself with this policy: And it is just plain stupid. And that’s very un-jewish, if I may say so.
Actually, I doubt the logic of my above concept myself. How could Israel become an agent for Arab interests in the USA? Though, this is a much better situation for Israel, it is hard to imagine how it could be carried out, in order to create peace.
One thing I would suggest is to look into the problem in Iraq, to see the need for mediation between the ethnic populations and to act as a third party in negotiation, in order to stablilize peaceful relations. Another area, is in military contracting and consulting with an eye to building greater security through proper division of power among different ethinc groups in the Muslim world.
Israel should welcome the creation of a regional court system within its own territory for the adjuciation of democratic problems in the surrounding states. It should put the first ante on the table by resolving the land division crisis with the Palestinian minority by raising a bond issue, and paying disenfranchised land owners. Then it should move forward with its mandate and build an excellent international court system for the middle east.
This could be exceptionally useful and even profitable.
Correction above: I meant “ajudication.” I hope that’s the correct spelling.
I guess this sh-t is reprinted to remind us of the problem of antisemitism in Britain.
“Anti-semitism is back. Today an all-party commission of enquiry has published a report on anti-semitism which sets out in stark terms the problem. The Commission had 14 MPs on it. None is Jewish. None is active in Middle East politics. The work was carried out in a traditional parliamentary manner - open witness sessions, scores of written submissions, visits outside London.
The conclusion is inescapable. Too many British citizens, who happened to be born Jewish, now face harassment, intimidation, and assault that is unacceptable in democratic Britain. Their synagogues are attacked. Their children jostled and insulted going to school. Their social events requiring levels of security protection that no other faith or community has to undertake.”
Denis Macshane (also Guardian) Sept. 2006
I guess this sh-t was reprinted to remind us of the problem of antisemitism in Britain.
“Anti-semitism is back. Today an all-party commission of enquiry has published a report on anti-semitism which sets out in stark terms the problem. The Commission had 14 MPs on it. None is Jewish. None is active in Middle East politics. The work was carried out in a traditional parliamentary manner - open witness sessions, scores of written submissions, visits outside London.
The conclusion is inescapable. Too many British citizens, who happened to be born Jewish, now face harassment, intimidation, and assault that is unacceptable in democratic Britain. Their synagogues are attacked. Their children jostled and insulted going to school. Their social events requiring levels of security protection that no other faith or community has to undertake.”
Denis Macshane (also Guardian) Sept. 2006
A semite is a person from south-west asia. Anti-semitism doesn’t mean anti-jewish, no matter how much Jews try to co-opt the phrase.
Boycotting the products of a country that repeatedly commits war crimes and other atrocities is not being “anti-semitic” nor being anti-Jewish, it is simply the right thing to do, just as not buying American, British, North Korean, Burmese or Saudia Arabian products is the right thing to do. We may not be able to stop fascism but we can have the satisfaction of not supporting it financially in small ways.
Please tell your grocer to label all products with the country of origin and that you won’t buy products from Israel or other countries that commit war crimes or commit acts of oppression. You can also notify manufacturers that you won’t buy products with ‘Kosher’ labels, as they must pay Jewish religious groups to apply the label.
We need to boycott Israel, not just its produce. We should also boycott its philosophy and its actions.
Israel, like the united states, was a colonial state founded on right-wing policies, genocide, hard-line militarism, and psychotic religious ideas. It was never “good” in the first place. It is a rogue nation that defies the UN and commits war crimes. Personally, I don’t buy anything from israel; if we mean “produce” as in fruits and vegetables, it doesn’t exactly classify as “local” for a California resident like myself. But no, I don’t feel a need to add to the massive amount of US aide which is funneled into israel every single year.
Personally, I am against all religions; but this issue is NOT about religion.
Samar Jabr is a woman, not a man. Overall, good work!
Donald Veach
Cambridge MA USA
Everyone knows that the Saudis and their human rights violations are bad so don’t use that as an excuse to deflect criticism of Israel’s actions which are also bad.
Anti-semitism is wrong. We all know that. Criticism of Israel’s actions in not anti-semitism. One can criticize Japan and not be anti-Japanese.
Educating people about AIPAC and other lobbying groups and their role in the conflict would be far more useful then launching boycotts.
Ok, every New Yorker knows where his roaches are.
It’s like racism is wrong, so we’ll call racism not-racism.
Orwell, Orwell … where are you when we need you.
Continue enjoying it. Oh, “wonderful,” meaningful lives of antisemites.
Did you know that many daughters of the Nazis were raped and raped and raped? I guess this was divine justice. God told me so. You can’t agree or disagree with it. You take your “information” from a sewer, my source is divine.
Bye, again.
annac21, you seem to be obsessed with anti-semitism and labelling all criticism of Israel as such. You are wrong — I’m a Jew and as such have twice the responsibility to criticize the false ideology of Zionism which poisonss our culture and terrorizes Palestinians. If anything, Zionism is itself a virulent form of anti-semitism becuase it not only undrrmines Jewish culture and rots our values, it creates even more anti-Jewish sentiment than there was before (and yes, there’s plenty even on the left). Still, as I pointed out before — the real Goliath pulling the strings is the US.
P.S. — Bush thinks his source is “divine” too. I prefer a clear-sighted rational approach.
“Anti-semitism is wrong. We all know that. Criticism of Israel’s actions in not anti-semitism. One can criticize Japan and not be anti-Japanese.”
OK. I’ll deal with it - fast.
But you don’t criticize the government of Japan, you b…
know about the Saudis, but you don’t criticize them, you don’t criticize Uzbekistani (?) government, you don’t criticize Sudanese government, you don’t criticize Edyptian goverment, etc.
But all of you criticize … Israel, of course.
You are utterly and totally ignorant (at best). What you do is antisemitism - double standards, focusing on party only - much better than others, etc. There is a huge literature of prejudices, racism in general, and antisemitism in particular. But why would you read, when you can just repeat this sick, sick, sick garbage.
When there is no conscience everything is possible.
“annac21, you seem to be obsessed with anti-semitism and labelling all criticism of Israel as such. You are wrong — I’m a Jew and as such have twice the responsibility to criticize the false ideology of Zionism which poisonss our culture and terrorizes Palestinians. If anything, Zionism is itself a virulent form of anti-semitism becuase it not only undrrmines Jewish culture and rots our values, it creates even more anti-Jewish sentiment than there was before (and yes, there’s plenty even on the left). Still, as I pointed out before — the real Goliath pulling the strings is the US.
P.S. — Bush thinks his source is “divine” too. I prefer a clear-sighted rational approach.”
If you are indeed a Jew, you dispelling one myth about Jews - all Jews are intelligent. I wasn’t serious about the divine source. Otherwise, I am sorry, but your post is below the level I can have a discussion.
“annac21, you seem to be obsessed with anti-semitism and labelling all criticism of Israel as such. You are wrong — I’m a Jew and as such have twice the responsibility to criticize the false ideology of Zionism which poisonss our culture and terrorizes Palestinians. If anything, Zionism is itself a virulent form of anti-semitism becuase it not only undrrmines Jewish culture and rots our values, it creates even more anti-Jewish sentiment than there was before (and yes, there’s plenty even on the left). Still, as I pointed out before — the real Goliath pulling the strings is the US.
P.S. — Bush thinks his source is “divine” too. I prefer a clear-sighted rational approach.”
If you indeed a Jew, you dispelling one myth about Jews - all Jews are intelligent. I wasn’t serious about the divine source. Otherwise, I am sorry, but your post is below the level I can have a discussion.
We should and do criticise all governments but Israel is special because it is our colony. We support it lock stock and barrel and your double posted ad homienmum attacks don’t change that.
Jaded,
I am a devoted Muslim, and I am appalled by your unfair treatment of Israel.
Jaded, try to t h i n k, t h i n k. I know it’s difficult for you, but try.
You don’t criticize other governments - it’s a fact, but you criticize Israel only - a fact. What can it mean?
T h i n k, t h i n k. OK, I’ll help you:
A N T I S E M I T I S M
Great article, well crafted (but for one small oversight), and timely. I was going to point out that Samah Jabr is a woman, but I see that Tiger Don Veach of Cambridge has already pointed that out. Good catch, Don. I have to say I agree with Don’s perspective on Ahrundhati Roy, too.
http://www.weroy.org/
“Anti-semitism is back. Today an all-party commission of enquiry has published a report on anti-semitism which sets out in stark terms the problem. The Commission had 14 MPs on it. None is Jewish. None is active in Middle East politics. The work was carried out in a traditional parliamentary manner - open witness sessions, scores of written submissions, visits outside London.
The conclusion is inescapable. Too many British citizens, who happened to be born Jewish, now face harassment, intimidation, and assault that is unacceptable in democratic Britain. Their synagogues are attacked. Their children jostled and insulted going to school. Their social events requiring levels of security protection that no other faith or community has to undertake.”
Denis Macshane (also Guardian) Sept. 2006
Maybe, in the wake of Bush’s failed Iraq War, we should take another look at “an historic opportunity for a regional solution” to the Arab-Israel Conflict as proposed by Benny Elon (formerly a Member of Knesset).
http://www.therightroadtopeace.com/eng/defaulteng.html
I laugh at people who, to defend Israel, say “Well, Saudi Arabia is worse than Israel!” I think it is nice of such people to implicitly admit that Israel is a major violator of human rights, but comparing it to another oppressive regime nearby, also supported by bush and blair and harper and further gang of fascists I detest really doesn’t do much. Yes, the Saudi oppression is terrible and immoral, but so is the Israeli apartheid. Why is your solution only to condemn one? Many people who are committed to Common Dreams can see pat the neo-conservative foreign policy and actually condemn BOTH fascist regimes in Israel and Saudi Arabia (and Syria, and Afghanistan, and Kuwait and etc etc etc etc).
20 Years ago me and a small group of people were busy protesting again Saddam Hussein and Israel simulataneously - and were told by the British and American governments that we were wrong on both counts as both were forces for stability in the middle east! No, both were forces for war and perpetual violence. Saddam is gone - having outlived his usefulness - but Israel still creates death and destruction through out the region. I hope they come to their senses one day and stop the brutal oppression of innocent people. But - unlike some here -then I hope ALL the governments if the middle east do.
One thing’s for sure, this is a very emotional issue that strikes a nerve. I was once on a long drive with an old white guy, a WWII vet, and somehow we got on the topic of racism. He wanted to express that he was open minded, and went on for a while about how he had gotten to like black people. I thought, wow, the old guy is pretty hip, but then he said “but you know who I really hate are the g– d— jews!”
It wouldn’t hurt us to admit that antisemitism is alive and well - for whatever reasons. I have not known very many jews in my life, but the few I do know, I find to be intelligent, organized and generally superior people. I try to be sensitive to the history of this particular prejudice and actively counteract it in the things I say.
As for the hijacking of governments by fascist elites, there is plenty of that going around, and I think we should view it as a larger more general phenomenon, rather than something specific to one country or another.
“I laugh at people who, to defend Israel, say “Well, Saudi Arabia is worse than Israel!”
It’s nice when one someone’s laughing. It’s also means that someone like me has fewer posts to read. Thank you, knowing nothing, happily laughing, andrew.
What the people who know repeat, and repeat (how many times one has to repeat to … how to put … the “challenged”) is very simple and known.
Singling out someone for harsh treatment signals a problem.
Singling out someone for harsh treatment signals a problem.
Singling out someone for harsh treatment signals a problem.
Singling out someone for harsh treatment signals a problem.
Singling out someone for harsh treatment signals a problem.
Singling out someone for harsh treatment signals a problem.
Singling out someone for harsh treatment signals a problem.
Singling out someone for harsh treatment signals a problem.
Singling out someone for harsh treatment signals a problem.
Andrew, let me know if I have to repeat.
This problem in this particular case is known and its has a name
A N T I S E M I T I S M
The US has supported up the Ibn Saud regime for years. The US orchestrated a coup in Iran and installed one of the worst dictators on the planet the result of which is the anti-US theocracy which not plages the country. The US of course financially underwrites Israel and supplies it with weapons at great expense which creates much animosity given their intransigent record regarding Palestine and it’s neighbors. The crux of the problem to a large extent is the US foreign policy along with the effects of post colonialism.
If there is a government to “single out for harsh treatment” it is the US government. As a citizen of the US (and as a Jew) I feel a responsibility to criticize the policies of my own country and it’s main colony in the region. This is not “antisemitism,” it is responsible citizenship. Also, as a Jew who has personally experienced the bitter lash of antisemitism, I think I am more sensitive to and aware of what it is than you are.
Jaded,
I think I understand you.
As a Muslim who knows well
- that children are raised in hatred of Jews
- that there are billions of us etc.
and as a person who is aware of the antisemitic horrors of the past, I feel it’s my responsibility to speak against antisemitism.
Yes, the article is antisemitic.
Annac, Thank you. Can I ask you why you consider that I know nothing? Also, why I am anti-semetic?
Now, as your argument proceeds, you have singled me out for harsh treatment (although I guess it is only harsh if it is perceived as such, not just intended as such) and, ergo, you have a problem - fine - but could you please explain why this makes me anti-semetic?
Jared, with the risk of being accused of singling you out as another Jew who condemnns US foreign policy: excellent points.
As far as I can see, Israel squandered their good will years ago much like the US did. I don’t have a gram of sympathy for them anymore. They took someone elses land now spend their time whining about suicide bombers? Well…dah! Don’t tell me your problems! That’s what you asked for when you took someone else’s land and laid long dormant claims to it! I simply do not buy that nonsense of them having prior Biblical claims to it. That’s like the Mayians coming back centuries later and claiming Mexico! I am like to many American’s growing tired of trying to prop Israel up financially. They need to learn to defend themselves without us helping them. They are the root of most of our problems in the Muslim world!
“As a Muslim who knows well
- that children are raised in hatred of Jews”
Exactly my point about Zionism being antisemetism! You see, it pains me that Muslim children are being raised to hate Jews and that Jewish children are being raised to hate and fear Muslims. The root of this shared hatred and fear is ZIONISM. It wasn’t always thus — for most of the last millinea Muslims and Jews goat along quite well. Jews generally faired much better in Muslim lands than in Christian ones. Israel and it’s behavior toward Palestine is the root cause of this schism.
annac21 is absolutely right!!
“Anti-Semites” singling out Israel is just like those bigoted “anti-Aryans” who criticized Germany during the Nazi regime.
Good one, Pax
“most of the last millinea Muslims and Jews got along quite well.” - Very true, but that doesn’t serve the rulling regimes in Arab countries, Iran or - especially - Israel. They all want their people to believe that Muslims and Jews cannot get along when history says the opposite in many cases.
It is also interesting that many christians could only exist under Muslim regimes for several centuries as they would have been persecuted under other christian regimes, EG Monophysites in the early Arab empire who were mercilessly suppressed to extinction in the Byzantine empire.
Oh Pax, oh Pax.
Poor Orwell turning in his grave. War is peace, etc.
I am not dealing this this illness on a beautiful Sunday day.
You see Andrew, you’re ignorant (and clearly something else), just repeating convenient half-truth (Orwell, Orwell again).
Can I suggest you actually read Quaran about status of dhimmi (in Arabic), and actually read historical works, about … well Maimonides, for example.
Every country in the world has had some more tolerant periods (mostly for pragmatic reasons). So what?
OK. Enough of the “pleasure of your company”
Why do I have this pleasure here? I don’t know.
Thanks for the advice, Annac.
Thank you for calling me ignorant too.
Thank you for calling me anti-semetic.
Thank you for the cohesion of your beautifully crafted arguments. It really is important that we have opinions of all kinds of people here.
“Thanks for the advice, Annac.”
You aren’t going to read.
Well, this is what I thought.
You don’t need knowledge.
I was trained (and so well) to describe reality, and you are as I said.
Quite, frankly, I would enjoy much better without certain kinds of “people” (thugs?)
Bye.
By the way, nobody asked me if I am a Paletisnian, for example, thus confirming my suspicion that Palestinians are used by antisemites as a tool. I mean, only antisemitic Muslims need to apply for attention.
How interesting.
Thank you for saying that I am also an illiterate thug.
You are completely right - I am never going to read anything ever again. I have also never read anything previous to this day. I can neither read nor write - in fact, this comment is generated by an extremely coincidental but random set of keystrokes. Nor do I have two degrees - on in Middle Eastern history and one in Education, several years experience as a high school teacher of hisory and comparitive religion. In fact I am a completely illiterate-useless-Jew-hating-Jew thug and I deserve everything you say about me.
Well,
you either never have heard about the dhimmis (bad, bad, bad, but possible, considering the level of American education), or you manipulate the facts in an ugly way (even worse, worse, worse).
Well, I’ve met a history/social sciences teacher who wasn’t familiar with the concept of Social-Democracy.
I don’t know. Since Americans talk about the reading skills of the high school graduates, maybe they teach about the dhimmis (history) only in post-doctoral programs.
Well, I am a surprise for you, Andrew. Clearly, you didn’t expect me here.
to be here.
The author forgets one thing. Since Israel came into being, It has had to deal with countries and organizations committed to its destruction. If they would leave Israel alone, this wouldn’t happen. We should be boycotting the Arab countries that are committed to Israel’s destruction.
Annac 0, you are absolutely full of bull or a damn liar, and I say that as someone who has studied the history of the Middle East, Zionism, and related matters. You are just obsessed with this anti Semitism or anal Semitism to the point of no return. Get a brain. Catch a train. You are wrong as hell, and I think you damn well know it. Zionism especially the form it takes today, is one of the worst things to happen to Jews everywhere. They don’t deserve it. Furthermore, as a Moslem, how the hell do you become an expert on Israel and anti Semitism.
According to strict Jewish religious teaching, God threw the Jews out of Israel, and they aren’t to return until the Messiah, and according to Jewish religious teaching that hasn’t happened.
Also I seemed to have read this journalist before and from what I see in this article, she doesn’t have anything in common with Ann Coulter, but maybe you do.
>>considering the level of American education
I do not know much about American education not having been to any American educational institutions. Is it possible that you have made an assumption which was incorrect? Is it therefore possible that you have made other assumptions about people here that are wrong?
>>Well, I am a surprise for you, Andrew. Clearly, you didn’t expect me here.
to be here.
You are not a surprise for me. I have come across responses like this before.
>>maybe they teach about the dhimmis (history) only in post-doctoral programs.
Sorry to disappoint you, but they taught me this in high school. I would stop making assumptions if I were you.
“The author forgets one thing. Since Israel came into being, It has had to deal with countries and organizations committed to its destruction. If they would leave Israel alone, this wouldn’t happen. We should be boycotting the Arab countries that are committed to Israel’s destruction.”
The author forgets this and many other things.
Similarly, Andrew and the others just forget this and … the dhimmis, for example.
Lies, distortions, omissions, manipulations, double standards, singling out … you name it.
Thank you AD, for dropping a mask for a moment, and showing
a true face of “anti-Zionism.”
“Jaded, I am a devoted Muslim, and I am appalled by your unfair treatment of Israel. Jaded, try to t h i n k, t h i n k. I know it’s difficult for you, but try. You don’t criticize other governments - it’s a fact, but you criticize Israel only - a fact. What can it mean? T h i n k, t h i n k. OK, I’ll help you: A N T I S E M I T I S M”
Drop the crack pipe and step away from the keyboard… nice and slow.
A boycott only on the Jewish state, while ignoring other countries who do similar or much worth things, sometimes by a factor of 1000 (Such as USA, UK, Sudan etc) is falling under pure and simple antisemitism.
European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) who is now known as the EU Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA) wrote a document that helps identify antisemitism.
http://eumc.europa.eu/eumc/material/pub/AS/AS-WorkingDefinition-draft.pdf
The writer Yvonne Roberts, failed in the following contents:
“- Applying double standards by requiring of it (The Jewish state) a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regards as antisemitic.”
Well… I don’t see him offering to boycott China for their actions in Tibet. Nor do I hear him suggesting not to buy British and American products for what they do in Iraq, or Sudanic Oil. The only difference is probably because the other countries are not Jews enough for him.
Will some know it all Jew or Muslim please help me? You see, I’m an anti-semite. I never thought I was until thousands of jews hammered home the fact that criticism of Isreal is anti-semitism, but you finally convinced me. I now realise that Jews (who are apparently psychic), and certain giant brained pro-Isreal psychic muslims know what I’m thinking much better than I do.
This however leaves me a bit confused. You see, I simply don’t know how to stop hating Jews. I tried - I really did. I stopped critisizing Isreal completely, then I was talking to somebody about the abysmal suffering caused by the diamond trade and I suddenly realized, Uh oh, there it is again. I changed the subject quickly not wanting to fall back into my worst anti-semitic habits.
I then started talking about how nice it is to not watch television anymore but then I thought “Seinfeld” and realized that not watching television anymore was just a sub-conscious ploy of my Jew hating psyche convincing me to initiate a stealth boycott of Jewish actors and comedians. Not wanting everyone to realise my rampant anti-semetism I jumped up screaming “Jew hater” and pointing at the bar tender as a distraction and then ran away.
I redoubled my efforts, bought a new big screen plasma TV and started feeling better immediately. The feeling didn’t last for long of course. Eventualy I found myself talking to my local bar tender about what an ugly piece of junk the AMC Gremlin was when suddenly - you guessed it - I suddenly realized that I once new a guy in high school that drove an AMC Gremlin named Josh Greenbaum, doh!
Would one of you giant brained psychic Jews or Muslims please tell me what I CAN safely criticise that doesn’t have a Jewish connection so I don’t fall back into my old habits again. Burmese basket weavers named Jeff? Yellow ties with clowns on them? Anything?
Being intellectually superior psychic Jews and Muslims I’m sure you can tell me. Also - do you know where my car keys are because I was sure I left them on the kitchen table but I can’t seem to find them now.
P.S. - I’m also an anti-dentite.
vets,
“Well… I don’t see him offering to boycott China for their actions in Tibet. Nor do I hear him suggesting not to buy British and American products for what they do in Iraq, or Sudanic Oil. The only difference is probably because the other countries are not Jews enough for him.”
This was my main point. What I find particularly repulsive is the behavior of the so called liberal/progressive majority. I can ignore Larouchemen and other thugs (there will be always some sickos). But find difficult to accept arrogant, ignorant and, frankly, evil attitude of the rest. There is no reason to be so ignorant, no reason to be so arrogant, and no reason to be so evil. It’s so easy to say “Oh, it’s just anti-Zionism, it’s fine.” No, it’s not, bast …
Ask every single of these bas…, and each will wax about his/her tolerance and will use “love and peace” millions of times.
No decency, no scruples, no compassion. Once again, when there’s no conscience everything is possible.
cont.
The worse that most of them are familiar with the unfairness of “double standards” and similar concepts, and spend their lives yelling that their rights (female, gay, black .. whatever) are violated.
But when it comes to Jews, well … “double standard?”, “double standard?” what’s that?
Truly evil, truly repulsive.
Space Cadet 1000, you are really in the outer limits. You have gone way further than Captain Kirk and the Starship Enterprise have ever been. Get back to planet Earth soon.
Scotty get on the job!
Apologies everyone - I am annac21’s caregiver and I forgot to give her her meds yesterday. AND I left the door to the computer room unlocked.
Anna - we will discuss your behaviour on wednesday’s group, okay dear?
“Well… I don’t see him offering to boycott China for their actions in Tibet. Nor do I hear him suggesting not to buy British and American products for what they do in Iraq, or Sudanic Oil. The only difference is probably because the other countries are not Jews enough for him.”
OK, so you *CAN* criticize israel, but only if you criticize EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD at the same time. So here goes:
Israel shouldn’t bomb innocent children in refugee camps who are already destitute - AND
The US should invade any country it feels like for no reason, AND
The UK shouldn’t go along with everything the US says, just to keep its “special relationship” fresh, AND
France and Germany shouldn’t just sit on the sidelines and complain about what the US and the UK doing without offering any viable alternatives (especially when there are so many alternatives to offer), AND
China should be nice to Tibetans, AND
Russia shouldn’t constantly threaten Europe’s economic security by playing the natural gas card, AND
oh and India and Pakistan are BOTH wrong for pursuing nuclear weapons programs AND
ditto on North Korea and Iran, AND
Lebanon should have tried harder to contain Hezbollah, AND
Canada…. shouldn’t have … well, we’ll think harder about Canada, AND
Sudan should be nice to Darfur, Serbia should be nice to Kosovo, Spain should be nice to the Basque (and vice versa, already), the Irish should be nicer to…. the Irish, Mother Nature should be nicer to Southeast Asia, Egypt should stop executing innocent gay men, the Scandinavians and the Japanese should be nicer to whales, and the Mongolians should have been way, way nicer to the Chinese aeons ago.
Venezuela shouldn’t try to silence political opposition (no matter how much that opposition deserves it), Colombia shouldn’t spray itself with so much pesticide, Chile should come to grips with its horrible recent history, Mexicans should stop flying north instead of dealing with their economic problems, and Cuba should stop having such good damn health care at the expense of American dignity.
Did I forget anyone? Phew…. takes so long to mount a single criticism against Israel these days. Oh, and by the way, if you criticize ME for ANYTHING I just said, then YOU’RE a HOMOPHOBE.
Am I still an anti-semite? Aww crap, I forgot about Sub-Saharan Africa and Australia. Well, my fingers are tired. I guess I’ll just be an anti-semite. That still makes you a queer-bashing closet case.
Helping hand for you:
Canada: shouldn’t be occupying Afghanistan and killing its citizens, shouldn’t continue to steal land and resources from First Nations people, shouldn’t help the US by doing their bidding in Haiti, shouldn’t call the murder of its own civilians by Israeli troops last July a ‘measured response.’ There’s a million other things…
annac21 - The definition I quoted were taken from EUMC. This is an EU organization which has nothing to do with Israel or Judaism.
If someone chose to descriminate only one nation, while ignoring all the others who do a lot worse - It would be appropriate if that someone will give us some explainantion of why the Jewish state is the only state that deserve his wrath.
jove4015 - Thank you. You are now off my antisemic list
For all those who asked what is double standard - There is this book called “dictionary”. It explains what double standard is.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/double%20standard
“For all those who asked what is double standard - There is this book called “dictionary”. It explains what double standard is.”
Frankly, I find it more than comical that people ask such questions. I am pretty sure that most of them would declare themselves tolerant and non-racist. How do they know that, if they aren’t familiar with basic concepts. In other words, how do they know that they are not racists.
I am pretty sure that most would offer some pompous declarations how they believe that everyone is equal, etc., then would proceed to behave in a blatantly intolerant, discriminatory way.
Yes, there is a double standard for Israel, and rightfully so. Not for reasons of race, but because we in the “Western World” hold an enormous responsibility for both the creation and maintenance of this horribly racist and warlike “nation”. It’s existence rightfully brings shame upon us.
Without us it would not exist. Without us it would not have nukes. Without us they would run out of bullets, tanks, planes and bombs within weeks. It is not only the biggest welfare mother on the planet but also a racist, big mouth, whining, lying and murderous welfare mother.
I live in the US and we cause or support a vast majority of the suffering that occurs on the planet. Thanks to the whining Jewish community here in the US we often have headline news about the “terrorist” crimes commited by Palestinians against Israeli Jews. If it was not for this whining and horribly slanted news coverage nobody would give one whit about Israel here in the US. The fact that it does exist makes it a convenient target for critisism that point out our criminal support of Israel because, thanks to the Jews themselves, it is already constantly in our faces and somebody has to tell the truth about the situation instead of letting Jews scream from the mountain tops while the voice of the Palestinians are rarely heard.
When we withdraw our support of Israel, one of our most blatant and undeniable crimes against humanity, though not our worst by far, then perhaps we can move on and end our support for Saudi Arabia, South American death squads trained in the US, and a host of other crimes against humanity. If however we cannot even call the guy who is stabbing children to death right before our eyes and screaming about what a victim he is a murderer, then what hope do we have of of cornering the murderer no-one is paying any attention to.
Israel is a tiny monster but it is a tiny monster that will soon whither and die if we simply stop feeding it. If we can’t defeat it then what chance do we have of killing the Kraken that can only be killed by fire and sword?
It is obvious that your foolish reliance on your “education” is misplaced annac21. After all, formal education is the act of someone else telling you what is real and what to think about it. Anyone with a decent memory can receive an education, but only thinking can bring understanding and wisdom. One of the greatest scourges of mankind is an overabundance of educated people who beleive they “know” and therefore see no need to think.
I suggest you think about that.
This is the most retarded argument I’ve read on this website. AnnaC..I almost fell asleep trying to make sense of your incoherent statements. What I gathered was you’re one of those people who cry foul as soon as you hear any criticism against Israel. There are many more evils around the world other than Israel, but that doesn’t mean we need to follow your hierarchy.
And please stop the “A N T I S E M I T I S M” ranting..we get it Ma’m!
“Yes, there is a double standard for Israel, and rightfully so”
I don’t need to continue to read.
“And please stop the “A N T I S E M I T I S M” ranting..we get it Ma’m!”
Well,
- What I’ll do I’ll decide.
- I don’t rant.
- I don’t post for you
- You don’t get
- You are not capable of getting anything.
annac21
““Yes, there is a double standard for Israel, and rightfully so”
I don’t need to continue to read.”
annac21 - You should continue reading, mbruton is getting better and better in exposing his true face. Here are some highlights:
- “Thanks to the whining Jewish community here in the US we often have headline news about the “terrorist” crimes commited by Palestinians against Israeli Jews… ”
- “…our criminal support of Israel because, thanks to the Jews themselves…”
- “…somebody has to tell the truth about the situation instead of letting Jews scream from the mountain tops…”
mbruton: Are you an Aryan nation activist? There is no difference between your view on Jews and theirs.
annac21, What you, in your narrow obsession don’t seem to be able to grasp is that because of our community’s and countries position as the primary base of support for Israel, American Jews like myself and others feel a particular responsibility to criticise the genocidal and racist policies of Israel while also confronting US antisemitism. It actually affects us. I have also been involved in other issues ranging from the anti-Apartheid movement to civil rights, peace work, and anti-racism at home. Though you repeatedly voice the opinion that you alone are the sole holder of truth and the rest of us are ignorant antisemites, what comes through are your own limitations.
The previous poster, einstein, was so right on the money. Annac, you are one of the BS’ers he was talking about. The truth will come out, people eventually get it and I am actually worried about the backlash against the Jewish community.
As am I. Should Isreal be used as a proxy for an attack on Iran, the blowback against US Jews could be viscious. I’ve experienced the virulency of US antisemitism first hand and it isn’t a pleasant thing. All the more reason that it is important that my people separate themselves from Zionism.
““Yes, there is a double standard for Israel, and rightfully so”
Vets,
No, I didn’t need to read the rest. This sentence is enough.
It’s clearly in the tradition:
“Yes, we lynched him, and rightfully so.”
The funny/sad thing that the person doesn’t understand that a double standard (like lynching) is never right.
Jaded,
I thought you promised to reduce the number of your precious
(yes, I am sarcastic) posts.
I’ll ignore the rest of illiterate garbage.
Your memory is as delusional as your posts are dear . . .
????????????????????????
“The previous poster, einstein, was so right on the money. Annac, you are one of the BS’ers he was talking about. The truth will come out, people eventually get it and I am actually worried about the backlash against the Jewish community.”
Their is a rule that one talks about something one knows about.
In the future, could you please educate yourself before you post similar garbage.
By the way, Einstein is dead, and he was a physicist, not
a social scientist.
Saphne,
We’re discussing a sick antisemitic piece of garbage,
and you dare to serve your garbage to me.
Are you out of you mind?
“Are you out of you mind?”
Kettle > Pot; Pot > Kettle
“Their is a rule…”
Try to use the sentences we talked about in therapy, Annac.
Yes, “doctor”
It should be “there is a rule.”
Well, “doctor” I thought that even American doctors are taught
now not to evaluate anyone from a culture they are not familiar with?
You’re “toiling” in vain, “doctor,” or someone is paying you in vain.
Who can it be? who can it be?
I think American doctors are - I work with a couple of them so I will ask them this afternoon.
Seriously, you are dealing with some pretty strong anger issues, aren’t you? You should seek some help. I am not being facetious. It can help a lot.
Oh, “doctor,” thank you so much, particularly for entering my area of expertise, and I can help you here.
I will tell you about the Nazi psychiatrists who were brought here by Rockefeller (facts, doctor, facts) to train psychiatrists to do what you are doing:
- pacify the population
- isolate the most intelligent and independent, etc.
In other words, they were brought here to apply the valuable
old world techniques (”Angry, go to a psychiatrist”, for example).
They were successful, and we had a silent acceptance of the 2000 election, for example, or love of “wage slavery.
You see “doctor,” I can be really helpful.
Annac
“Similarly, Andrew and the others just forget this and … the dhimmis, for example”
So the dhimmis are a huge problem to society. Who’s protecting them?
Blind support for Israel is costing this country a lot of money and countless lives.
I hope all the jackasses who run this country wise up. And people like you…well nothing can happen to people like you. You will still vote…Ahhh!!The perils of democracy!
Will you fade away if we ignore you?
I also noticed you don’t comment much on any other issues. Are we being monitored by the government?
Um, who mentioned anything about a psychiatrist? I said you should seek some help.
Um,
doctor,
I really don’t have time to play Rovian games - play with someone else.
Spartan,
The same.
Maybe you two will play your Rovian, swiftboating games together. Or play separately with yourself if you prefer, or do whatever you want — without me.
Bye.
Phew! She’s gone.
Just moved on to a different topic.
I said what I wanted to say
It would take many more hired th.. to remove me
Space Cadet 1000, when will you get over this obsession with anti Semitism or anal Semitism? Scotty beam this person back to Earth!
When an individual says everyone else is wrong, and that person is right, that is a pretty good sign of a real serious problem, as in “Why do they hate us?” Who the hell is the they?
“Does anybody believe that murdering innocent civilians is justified?”
answer: America, Britain, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Israel etc etc etc etc
AD: “Space Cadet 1000, when will you get over this obsession with anti Semitism or anal Semitism? Scotty beam this person back to Earth! ”
It comes from the definition of what is antisemitism.
In some specific cases (Not always) attacking Israel could be regards as antisemitism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
EUMC (European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia) discussed ways in which attacking Israel could be antisemitic, depending on the context, while clarifying that “criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.”