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Obama's Israel-Palestine Gamble
President Barack Obama boasts that he's a good poker player. On Middle East policy, he seems to be betting all his chips on a high-stakes gamble. It's not clear yet, though, whether the gamble is working or what the ultimate outcome will be.
Months ago, the president and his advisors decided to stake the prospects for Middle East peace - and the U.S. reputation - on a non-negotiable demand that the Israelis halt all settlement expansion. There were to be no exceptions, no loopholes. But now it seems the demand was really quite negotiable - which seems to show that the world's only superpower was only bluffing.
That could give credence to the charges that Israel really pulls the strings in Washington. The administration's vague, evasive explanations only add to the perception of uncertainty and weakness.
But diplomacy is all about the difference between perception and reality. Part of a diplomat's job is to bluff, to create public images that mask what's happening behind the scenes, where the real action is. Another part is to create images that help the diplomat manipulate the secret negotiations, while the real truth remains hidden until it's time to announce that the deal has been cut.
That's what the Israelis and Palestinians did back in 1993. While the Palestinian Liberation Organization publicly declared ongoing enmity with Israel and Israel still had a law forbidding its citizens from talking to the PLO, the two sides were holding secret talks in Oslo. When they stunned the world with a public agreement, no one complained about the deception. In diplomacy, it's the end result that counts, not the illusions along the way.
Then there's another cardinal rule of diplomacy: Always start by demanding what you really want, but then expect to make compromises. So, despite the administration's insistence on a total building freeze, the State Department has officials saying to reporters: "The settlements aren't the be-all, end-all" of American policy efforts. Israeli announcement of new West Bank construction "doesn't mean we're going to stop working toward setting the conditions for negotiations."
Indeed, The Los Angeles Times reports, "U.S. officials said privately that they never had expected to win a total settlement freeze and noted that Mitchell had avoided stating this as an objective" - though that may be an after-the-fact excuse for an administration that seriously expected to win a total freeze but couldn't get it and decided to back down.
Eventually a tough negotiator may issue a take-it-or-leave-it deal. But that comes only at the end of the process. Along the way, everyone at the table knows that the other parties are asking for more than they can reasonably hope to achieve. If the diplomacy is skillful, everyone will be able to claim some kind of victory, and the compromises will soon be forgotten. Judging the administration's Middle East strategy by these traditional rules of diplomacy, the charges that the president is caving in to Israel are premature. It's far too soon to say who is really stronger than whom.
Jewish Peace Groups Optimistic
The largest Jewish peace groups are giving the administration high marks so far. Their Washington staffers won't predict exactly what Obama might propose, or when. But Lara Friedman, Director of Policy and Government Relations at Americans for Peace Now (APN), sees political wisdom in the unpredictability: "Obama is smart to not lay out specific parameters, since any 'Obama parameters' would then just become the focus of the debate." She said she hopes that whatever strategy he puts forth will be "well choreographed," with Israeli and Palestinian buy-in secured in advance for a negotiating process in which the United States will be active.
Daniel Levy, a senior fellow directing Middle East peace initiatives at the Century Foundation and the New America Foundation, agrees that the United States "will shepherd the talks," though he hopes that the shepherding will be aggressive enough to bring success. A strong hand is needed, some say, because the Israelis and Palestinians have shown that they are incapable of forging a peace on their own.
Can the administration provide that strong hand if it is already backing down on its no-settlement-expansion demand? Deepa Domansky is Washington Liaison for Brit Tzedek v'Shalom, a group that has launched a "We've got your back, Mr. President" campaign to build Jewish support for Obama's Middle East policy. She says: "While a complete settlement freeze would be optimal in laying groundwork for renewed negotiations, practically speaking though, the United States does not have to have perfect decisions about settlements before negotiations." In fact Obama might be leaving the issue unresolved to give the United States some "political capital" that it can use in negotiations down the road.
For APN's Friedman, the administration's insistent focus on settlements has the potential to be a "game-changer," giving new life to the prospects for final status negotiations. "We'd prefer to see Israel stop all settlement activity, permanently, but we can't let getting a 'perfect' settlement freeze be the central issue," she says, if that might block overall progress toward an agreement that could end the conflict and definitively resolve the settlement issue.
The test of success, she says, is not whether there is a 100% stop in activity, but "whether the freeze that Israel agrees to undertake is serious enough to catalyze the kind of political process and negotiations that can once and for all resolve all the final status issues - including settlements, at which point the whole issue of a freeze is no longer relevant." Levy agrees that once the border issue is resolved, the settlement problem will be laid to rest too.
Keeping the Voters Happy
To reach that point, U.S. policymakers can't ask either Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) to commit political suicide. They have to offer both leaders some way to please their voters, because both face the same political problems.
As recent research shows, most Israeli and Palestinian voters want to inflict symbolic defeats on the other side. What Israel wants to win above all, according to its leaders, is recognition of its right to exist (as a Jewish state, they sometimes add). What Palestinians want to win, beyond the end of occupation, is Israeli admission of the wrongs done since 1948. But those concessions will be hard for Netanyahu and Abu Mazen to make. Both have to deal with hardline voters who refuse to accept any symbolic defeats. Those hardliners are a minority of the electorate on both sides, but they carry enough weight to bring down the government if they get really angry.
And if it looks like the other side is winning too many symbolic victories, centrist voters will turn against their government too, insuring political disaster for the leaders. So the Obama administration has to find ways to let both sides inflict some symbolic defeats on the other, helping both leaders make credible claims of strength.
The Palestinians can never claim to be tougher than the Americans. They've got to win their victories against Israel. Netanyahu's public embrace of a two-state solution, and his private decisions to approve no new settlements for five months and to cut back Israeli arrests of West Bank Palestinians, are a good start for Abu Mazen. Now he can tell his voters, "If the United States has forced Netanyahu to make such compromises already, we can expect that they'll force him to make more compromises as negotiations proceed." And when settlement expansions are announced, Abu Mazen can publicly proclaim his strong opposition. The strategy may already be working; some polls show support for Fatah growing while pro-Hamas sentiment weakens.
The Israelis, on the other hand, can create the impression of being tougher than the Americans by refusing to accept a total settlement freeze. Like so much else in diplomacy, this may be a matter of image obscuring reality. In what The New York Times' Isabel Kirshner calls "the strange and arduous choreography of Middle East peacemaking," the recent announcement of new construction permits "was not seen as likely to derail movements toward renewing stalled Israeli-Palestinian talks." Israel will apparently agree, for the first time, to a temporary freeze. And, as Ha'aretz headlined, the ballyhooed "'New' settlement projects aren't really new." Most were re-approvals of projects already initiated. The Israelis may well intend to use these projects as bargaining chips in future talks; construction can be cancelled at any moment. For now, though, seeing the United States back off from its demand for a total settlement freeze has made plenty of Israeli Jewish voters happy, especially the right-wingers.
And that has made Bibi Netanyahu happy. Had he accepted Obama's dictate, right-wing wrath would likely have brought down his government. And (as an Israeli analyst noted) if there were "no Israeli government, the peace process [would] be set back even further." Now, Bibi can say that "if the United States has made such compromises already, we can expect that they'll make more compromises as negotiations proceed." He's already won broad (if grudging) right-wing acceptance of his strategy.
In effect, U.S. compromises substitute for Palestinian compromises. Many Israeli voters, especially on the right, may not care much who they inflict their symbolic defeats on - the Palestinians or the Americans - as long as they've got some tough opponent they can beat.
The trick here is to find the right balance: to limit Israel's public victories so that the Palestinians don't feel like losers, and vice versa. But there are many ways to fall off this high-wire. And that's the greatest risk for Obama and his administration. They could make an all-out push for Middle East peace, put their prestige on the line, and end up with nothing to show for it but an image of embarrassed impotence.
Battle on the Home Front
That isn't likely to happen if the administration is free to put all the pressure it wants on both sides. When Bosnian leaders were caught in a seemingly intractable conflict, the United States brought them to Dayton and forced them to keep talking until they reached an agreement. Nothing is likely to stop Washington from putting similar pressure on the Palestinians, who have no supporters in the United States strong enough to restrain the administration.
The Israelis are a different story. Not only do they have well-entrenched allies in Washington, they now offer a rich opportunity to the conservative-dominated Republican party, which wants to inflict symbolic defeats on the president every chance it can get.
The right is accustomed to controlling the issue effortlessly, with the help of the once-powerful American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Though U.S. presidents have always been able to impose their will on a recalcitrant Israel, they've rarely done so, because the political price at home has been too high.
But now we are in a new political world. Obama signaled the change when he invited J Street and APN to his White House meeting with leaders of major Jewish organizations. Obama owes groups like these a political debt, because the pro-Israel, pro-peace community is now beginning to provide a counter-balance to AIPAC and other right-wing groups, who have traditionally defined what it means to be "pro-Israel." That gives Obama more room to make whatever policy choice he wants - a luxury previous presidents have not enjoyed.
What's more, it's not a strictly partisan issue. Though most candidates favored by J Street are Democrats, the lobby has also endorsed Republican House members like Charles Boustany (R-LA) and Geoff Davis (R-KY).
Some of the old-line Jewish organizations are "nervously looking about," Domansky says, trying to grasp this new situation of a U.S. president making serious demands on Israel as well as its neighbors. And they still have a loud media megaphone. But she is confident that Obama has more Jewish backing than "some of these louder voices would suggest," pointing to polls showing that the 78% of Jews who voted for Obama still give him strong support. And as Friedman notes, it will be hard for the right-wingers to disagree with Obama "if Netanyahu is already agreeing with him" on the need for peace talks.
Still, getting the talks going is just the beginning. They are likely to drag on at least into 2011. According to Israeli pundit Aluf Benn, Netanyahu has agreed to bend to Obama's wishes (despite all the public kicking and screaming) in return for Obama's promise to do "Iran first...The Palestinians will have to wait their turn and pass the time in empty talks until Iran is restrained."
Then there is Hamas, the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. Levy and Friedman agree that there is no way to secure a lasting peace "without at least serious participation of Hamas" (as Levy puts it), though the form of Hamas participation is negotiable. If no Fatah-Hamas unity agreement is forged, Hamas might be seated at the table as a separate party or as part of some Arab delegation. Although "Israel's right to exist is not subject to negotiation," Friedman adds, "recognition of this right ought not be a precondition for talks" - yet another diplomatic knot that will have to be disentangled.
Toward 2011
We can expect more compromises on all sides, including from the United States, before the process is done. With so little domestic political clout supporting the Palestinian side, Obama will feel most pressure to let the Israelis have their way and win more symbolic victories.
But Israel and Palestine will not achieve a lasting peace unless the United States forces them to keep their sights set on the goal of peace, not just scoring symbolic points. Will the administration have enough political freedom at home to exert that force over the many months, probably years, of negotiation? That's the great unknown.
It will not be decided in Jerusalem or Ramallah but in Washington, where decision-makers always have their fingers up, checking the political winds blowing from all 50 states. If the breeze from the peace movement - especially the Jewish peace movement - keeps on growing as it has in the past year or two, Obama will have the freedom he needs to keep the pressure on both parties at the table.
That's ultimately the gamble the president is taking. The outcome is not up to him. It's up to the peace movement - all of us who recognize that peace and a truly independent Palestinian state are just as important for Israel and the United States as for Palestine - to turn the breeze we've already created into a gale strong enough to be felt constantly in the Oval Office and in the Middle East.- Posted in




30 Comments so far
Show AllThe world needs a total illegal settlement removal.
The world needs a total antisemite removal.
That includes most of Israel then, since killing Semites to steal land is Israeli policy, carried out by the IDF. The also eliminates all supporters for the US war against Iraq.
"killing Semites to steal land is Israeli policy, carried out by the IDF"
Prove it, buster.
Is this an argument? Really your rather childish outbursts are winning you no friends. If you want to further the Zionist cause come up with some rational arguments based on evidence.
There is plenty of evidence that the IDF has been killing Palestinians - the recent Goldstone report for example and the evidence it collected from human rights groups in Israel. The statements by Avraham Burg essentially say it. I could give you many more quotations by Israelis and other Jews that all admit this. Do you want me to give them? It would do your cause no good.
Oh, I know, they're all lying and wonderfully humanitarian Israeli government is the only source of truth on this - right?
Oh dear, you really can't help yourself can you, lever01? Let's have a rational position from you about why the map on this website doesn't show that Israel is stealing Palestinian land.
http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/spiegel-database-of-west-bank-settlements-and-outposts-view-larger-map.html
Some of us would argue that the theft goes much further than this but let's just get you to answer this clear evidence to us of Zionist theft. And let's try to do it without using the term "anti-semite" - it doesn't win any arguments or friends.
Let's be realistic. Obama's "gamble" is little more than a sop to the non-Likudnik part of the Democratic Party, and it's clear he had no intention of following through on it once said wing was distracted by something else. Like, say, one of his other sops, such as support for real health care reform.
Shell Game 101.
ira chernus wrote what i think is the single best peice i have ever read on common dreams, called "glued to our seats in the theater of war", available here:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174839/chernus_the_american_audience_in_the_theater_of_war
it is about our delusions and myths of america and our preoccupation with war as a part of that myth
it is wildly humorous and it is wildly informative
check it out
alas, today's article on "peace" in israel/plaestine he is not so good. there is no peace and there never will be - zion is a war state and as they say: when all you got is a hammer everything begins to look like a nail
worse ira knows that and what he should do instead is a redux of "glued to our seats in the theater of war" - israeli version
Apologies for multiple posts
The Strategy used by the ISraeli Settlement process is duplictous to the extreme.
What they do is place them in strategic areas then build the road link between these settlements for "security purposes". The network of roads and settlements then act to close large areas of land off to the Palestinians or force them to take many hours longs trips to travel a few miles for work or to visit relatives. Palestinans who try to cross these areas without going through multiple checkpoints are detained or shot.
A recent expansion of "only 500 homes" in East Jerusalem all but closes off some 150,000 Acres of Palestinian lands.
The "Logic" of allowing "natural growth due to an increasing population" which Netanyahoo presents as a perfectly reasonable request on the part of Israel is just another example of a the death by a thousand cuts Strategy.
It is not enough to demand a halt to settlement growth. They must all be removed. PERIOD.
sounds like the far right nzis with these comments. you guys would have a lot in common the far right nationalists!
There are some seriously antisemitic commenters here on the "progressive" website CD.
Hatred of Jews - yeah, real "progressive."
If all you can say is "anti-semitic" - which is getting rather tired and hackneyed I'm afraid - then you're losing the game. This, to paraphrase Monty Python is not an argument it's just abuse and we, who read about what's going on in Palestine/Israel from less biased sources than Fox News, are pretty resilient to it now.
Answer these comments from (no doubt in your mind a "self-loathing Jew" - he was Leader of the Knesset)
"The prime minister should present the choices forthrightly: Jewish racism or
democracy. Settlements, or hope for both peoples. False visions of barbed wire
and suicide bombers, or a recognised international border between two states
and a shared capital in Jerusalem." (Avraham Burg, 28 March 2004)
" We live in a thunderously failed reality. ... A state lacking justice cannot
survive. ... Even if the Arabs lower their heads and swallow their shame and
anger for ever, it won't work. A structure built on human callousness will
inevitably collapse in on itself. Note this moment well: Zionism's
superstructure is already collapsing like a cheap Jerusalem wedding hall."
(Avraham Burg, 15 September 2003)
"Israel, having ceased to care about the children of the Palestinians, should
not be surprised when they come washed in hatred and blow themselves up in the
centres of Israeli escapism. They consign themselves to Allah in our places of
recreation, because their own lives are torture. They spill their own blood in
our restaurants in order to ruin our appetites, because they have children and
parents at home who are hungry and humiliated." (Avraham Burg, 15 September
2003)
and answer them with arguments - and evidence - not abuse. We don't do abuse!
Antisemitism is alive and well, continually spreading and metastizing like a cancer. Mostly on the political left, these days. The fact that I point that truth out does not mean that the word antisemitism is "rather tired and hackneyed." It's simply accurate. Nothing else can explain the constant negative attention that people put on Israel, to the exclusion of real dictatorships and human rights abusers in the world (i.e. North Korea, Iran, Syria, Egypt, and actually Hamas and Hezbollah, etc., etc.).
Don't order me to answer this or that statement from this or that person. As far as Avraham Burg's statements, I don't agree with them. What, because he's a Jew, his statement must be accurate? Jews can ourselves be incorrect about things; and yes, there are self-hating Jews out there. I don't know if Burg is one of them. He certainly sounds out of touch with reality; what does he mean by "false visions of ... suicide bombers"? Does he mean that suicide bombers don't exist? Try telling that to the victims of suicide bombers.
I'd appreciate it if you would tell me what you think of this sentence from the very first paragraph of Hamas' 1988 charter:
"Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors."
Oh really. So let's see which other Jews you disagree with. By the way are you mikep - you're beginning to sound awfully like him. I don't happen to agree with the statement in Hamas charter as I've already said on this website but there is a difference. Hamas says it and doesn't carry it - Israel says it and does it!
Let's start with David ben Gurion:
"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
How about this (just say agree or disagree):
"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
Or this:
"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.
Or this
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"
Or this - back to ben Gurion again
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin,
leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23
October 1979.
Or this
"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
Or this
"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]
I'd really be interested in knowing whether you disagree or not as many others on this website would. It would tell us where you're coming from.
Oh really. So let's see which other Jews you disagree with. By the way are you mikep - you're beginning to sound awfully like him. I don't happen to agree with the statement in Hamas charter as I've already said on this website but there is a difference. Hamas says it and doesn't carry it - Israel says it and does it!
Let's start with David ben Gurion:
"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
How about this (just say agree or disagree):
"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
Or this:
"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.
Or this
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"
Or this - back to ben Gurion again
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin,
leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23
October 1979.
Or this
"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
Or this
"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]
I'd really be interested in knowing whether you disagree or not as many others on this website would. It would tell us where you're coming from.
Oh really. So let's see which other Jews you disagree with. By the way are you mikep - you're beginning to sound awfully like him. I don't happen to agree with the statement in Hamas charter as I've already said on this website but there is a difference. Hamas says it and doesn't carry it - Israel says it and does it!
Let's start with David ben Gurion:
"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
How about this (just say agree or disagree):
"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
Or this:
"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.
Or this
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"
Or this - back to ben Gurion again
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin,
leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23
October 1979.
Or this
"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
Running out of the limit but I could go on and on.
I'd really be interested in knowing whether you disagree or not as many others on this website would. It would tell us where you're coming from.
The here-described qualified optimism of the Jewish peace movement for a serious diminishment or elimination of Jewish settlements reminds me a great deal of the "cautious optimism" that the ACLU was expressing in a recent incident of the Obama administration proposing to extend Bush-era surveillance measures. In both cases, advocates of a position strongly opposed to dominant features of both Bush and Obama administrations is preserving its "New Deal" optimism on their faith in Obama as a new liberal force; and the same confidence that problems (in settlement or surveillance) can be "fixed" or negotiated with a "diplomacy" that goes on beneath the surface of public awareness. Of course this fits right in with the invariable agenda of Chernus to find the bright spots in an Obama administration that has brought a lot of darkness into our political life (or maintained the darkness already there.)
I see, the settlement "question" isn't the be-all, end-all for Obama, just as the public option in the health care "reform" wasn't that important, either.
The "settlements" are illegal Israeli colonies, built on illegally occupied Palestinian land which Israel has illegally stolen. Israel continues its theft of Palestinian land and water resources, as well as the natural gas resources off the coast of Gaza, and the Palestinians are supposed to "negotiate?"
What there is to "negotiate" about between Israel and the Palestinians? Israel has been in flagrant violation of international law and U.N. resolutions for more than 50 years. It's like asking me to "negotiate" with a band of thieves who have broken into my house and stolen everything but a corner of the basement for themselves. Since they allow me to live in a walled-off section of the basement, after jailing or killing many of my relatives, I am expected to stop trying to defend myself, and "negotiate" with them?
What about the Israeli theft of body parts from Palestinians they have killed? Negotiate with them about that, too?
Since our government continues to shield Israel from the consequences of violating international law, it is up to us citizens to support the international movement to boycott, divest, and sanction Israel.
Oh, so you're reviving the ancient blood libel against Jews? Now I can clearly see you for the anti-semitic slug you are.
Tell me, will you? What proof do you have that Israel is stealing Palestinian body parts? That false accusation is just a repeat of the ancient blood libel. I guess that's why you stated it, isn't it?
Just google "Israelis stealing Palestinian body parts" and you'll find lots of info, including pictures of Palestinian corpses returned to their families with huge incisions on their torsos.
And let's not forget the rabbis in New Jersey who were recently arrested for laundering money and trafficking in body parts.
It's "libel" if it's untrue. But, sadly, it is all true. The government of Israel considers itself above all law and morality, which is why it feels justified in lying, stealing, torturing, and killing.
Sorry, troll. I sympathize with how difficult a job it is to defend Israel, an outlaw, pariah nation.
In a world steeped in antisemitism, the fact that a google search of the words you mention would bring up lots of info means nothing. The important question is, is that "info" true and accurate? Photographs can easily be manipulated to show anything the antisemite wants. So, show me something credible, then I'll take you more seriously.
And as far as the NJ rabbis, what proof do you have that they were involved in trafficking body parts?
So, because of your baseless attacks against Jews, I think you are disgusting bigot, full of hatred of the Jewish people.
Again just a series of statements without any justification and really next time try to post without saying "anti-semitic" or a variant of it. We've got the message! And we know it's false.
So show us some real evidence of what's happening if you don't believe what we're saying. Tell us why the quotes of Avraham Burg are not true. What is true and accurate? Please tell us - we'd be interested to hear. And if what we believe is happening to the Palestinians is not true we'd be delighted. Tell us why you think the quotes I gave are not credible. We are certainly interested. But, talking of credibility, please don't quote Fox News at us!
You're making the blood libel accusation, so you're the one that needs to show the proof. We have a principle here in the US, it's known as innocent until proven guilty. And proof of a criminal code violation must be established beyond a reasonable doubt in order to obtain a conviction. Therefore, prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that Israel is guilty of trafficking in human body parts. Until you can, I say you are slandering Jews, and are antisemtic.
Nope I'm not - I'm asking you to read the words of the former leader of the Knesset and tell me what's false about them. Please tell me! I note you've still not managed a comment without using the term anti-semitic.
But let's examine this - suppose someone says that a collection of priests have been assaulting children and this is posted on the web. Does this mean that the person who wrote this is anti-Christian? I'm not really concerned about the body parts issue, but I am concerned about the use of the term anti-semitic to slander anyone who criticizes anything to do with Israel or even particular groups of Jews. Are individual Jews to be beyond criticism for anything they do? If so, why are they afforded a right that no-one else has?
The body parts story is irrelevant. The important point is that Petrkrop's analogy is correct. Whether or not Israel is stealing body parts, it is stealing much more, and that includes people's lives.
Obama was not bluffing the Israelis. He, the Israelis, and their lobbies know he was lying to the US public to sound tough.
Israel has never, in deed, recognized any possibility of the Palestinians having a true nation-state. Obama will only be serious if 1) he removes Zionists from all "Defense" (including the entire US military), State, and foreign policy posts, and 2) revoke recognition of Israel's status as a nation, for decades after the Palestinians are recognized.
Are you kidding Ira Chernus? What high-stakes game is Obama betting on?
Obama is allowing ethnic cleansing as Israel accelerates its settlement building and thumbing its nose at the US. Is the high-stakes gamble to hope that if Obama allows Israel to accelerate its ethnic cleansing and stealing of Palestinian land that it will eventually stop the ethnic cleansing? Sick!
One can criticize Israeli Apatheidt policy and be more pro-Israel than those who rationalize whatevever Israel does. Those of us who criticized segregation in earlier days were pro-American. Shouts of ill-founded anti-semitism foreclose on real debate.