Avoiding Corporate Liability
Once upon a time early in the 19th century, corporations came into existence by state legislatures approving charters, which were granted for a limited period of time and for limited purposes. These corporations - producing textiles and other products in New England - raised capital in part because their investors had limited liability. That meant they could not lose any more than their investment if things went wrong.
Since corporations were artificial legal entities and not human, these lawmakers feared that without some strong leashes, they could be creating Frankensteins.
Over the following two hundred years, these ever larger corporations and their attorneys have been driving relentlessly, dynamically to erect systems of privileges and immunities that give the corporations themselves limited liability.
Their first big move was to take the chartering authority from the state legislature and place it inside an executive agency where chartering became automatic, shorn of the conditions the lawmakers once imposed.
Once chartering became automatic, perpetual and open-ended, corporate lawyers moved to have the courts - not the legislatures - turn corporations into "persons" for purposes of constitutional rights.
Their big breakthrough came with the Santa Clara case in 1886 when the U.S. Supreme Court allowed its summary headnotes to declare that the railroad in the case was a "person" for purposes of the 14th amendment. Through elaborations in later Supreme Court decisions, that meant that companies like Aetna, General Electric, Exxon and Lockheed had most of the same constitutional rights as real people like you.
Soon it was off to the races and the promised land of no-fault corporate behavior. Early in the 20th century, companies erected "no-fault" workers compensation schemes limiting damages for the horrors of worker injuries and workplace diseases in those mines, factories, and foundries.
Then came the steady erosion of shareholder rights and power, notwithstanding the securities acts of 1933 and 1934 which emphasized disclosure and anti-fraud rules. As owners, the shareholders have had little control over the corporations they "own". The split between ownership by the stockholders and control by the corporate bosses, and their rubber stamp boards of directors, is now wider than the Grand Canyon.
With the limitless "business judgment rule" and the permissive corporate chartering goliath ensconced in the state of Delaware, shareholders don't even have a vote as to whether their hired bosses should dissolve their company into bankruptcy.
These investors cannot even determine the limits on the runaway pay packages by and for their supreme executives. Investors cannot even propose their names for election to the boards of directors in these Kremlin-style corporate board elections. Investors are told-if you don't like what we your bosses are doing, you're free to sell your shares. And, of course, that exit leaves the rascals more in charge.
Anytime the law is activated on behalf of the "little people", corporate lobbyists move in to weaken or delete these instruments of accountability. For example, tort law giving wrongfully injured Americans their day in court against manufacturers of defective cars, hazardous chemicals or drugs and other products has been weakened by business-backed state and federal laws. More immunity for corporate wrongdoing.
When the early atomic power industry got underway in the nineteen fifties, insurance companies would not insure the potentially massive damages a breach of containment disaster might produce. No problem. The industry pushed Congress to pass the Price-Anderson Act in 1957, which greatly limited the utilities' and manufacturers' liability for the human devastation arising from a class nine meltdown.
How about the contracts you sign with credit card, auto dealer, insurance company, bank and other vendors? Over the years by using fine print contracts to avoid many obligations, sellers have disadvantaged consumers who have to sign on the dotted line. Corporate lawyers have turned contract law upside down. And if you don't want to sign, you can't go to a competitor company because the contracts are just as one-sided, taking away your rights page after page, including your right to go to court.
Well, suppose a corporation, like General Motors, is so mismanaged that it is losing sales, profits, creditworthiness and heading toward abject failure. No problem. There is always chapter 11 voluntary bankruptcy to terminate obligations to creditors, dealers, litigants, and other claimants with pennies on the dollar.
Here is how bankruptcy attorney Laurence H. Kallen described the process in his book, Corporate Welfare: "...in chapter 11 the megacorporations almost all succeed famously. They dominate the committees and bully the judges. They stay ten steps ahead of any feeble attempts at supervision. They use the bankruptcy laws to force plans of reorganization down creditors' throats. And then the executives of those corporations laugh all the way to the bank."
Speaking of banks, wouldn't you like to have the power to mutate yourself like six large insurance companies did last November to get billions of your tax dollars under the TARP rescue program?
Mired in their risky, reckless investments, including derivatives, these insurance companies qualified for the money simply by a paper restructuring of themselves as bank holding companies. Voilá! The U.S. Treasury declared they qualify as financial firms and will soon be receiving your money. The New York Times reports that "hundreds" of other such companies "are still in the pipeline for review."
Whether it is equal justice under the law, equal protection under the law, equal access to the law, or the power to make laws, there is no contest between the corporate entity and the real human being.
What Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis feared in an opinion he wrote during the nineteen thirties is happening. These megacorporations have become Frankensteins-moving to own our genes, the plant seeds of life and taking control of computerized artificial intelligence. Their final conquest is far along-the control of government which is then turned against its own people.
As Paul Harvey used to say: "Good day."
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144 Comments so far
Show Alli'll tell you why gore lost...what... 12 comments... before ONE mention about the article's subject matter...
this 'humanization' of corporations is so core to EVERYTHING...
lobbying... lack of healthcare (profit-care)... pensions (not)... wages(double not)...
and on... and on... and on...
rather than talk about the issues... let's talk about the guy who raises the issues... like perot...
224 years into the american 'experiment' we get two 4th-5th-6th generation uber wealthy frat boy fuck-ups... George W. Bush and Al V. Gore... the punk beat out the nerd...
and you know WHAT... the "Republican Party"... argued successfully... in the supreme court... that IT... was being discriminated against... the "Republican Party"... being discriminated against under the Equal Protection clause of the Constitution... because ballots were not being re-counted uniformly...
it would be silly if it weren't sublime...
R. Nader posts an article on the core problem to representative democracy... an everyone blasts him for putting george bush in office... yet... the subject of the article was singularly responsible for that SC decision...
so folks... unless ya'll married in... muscled in... or bought in... enjoy (watching) the plutocracy...
Ralph Nader is just another also-ran boy simply trying to outdo Lyndon Larouche. In between the elections where was Nader ? Writing worthless articles such as this one? Nader is a joke of the man who fought for the people in the 60's and 70's. Today he is a bitter old geezer who does not know that his 15 minutes is over. Nader's only other goal other than playing spoiler like a stupid kid is bashing corporations which everyone despends on.
Vote for Nader and don't complain when the next Republican in 2012 is president.
Nader ain't a geezer and he's not a joke man of the 60s and 70s. Without him, where would our seatbelts be? The more Obama keeps eff-in' up, the more popular Nader gets. He's writing great articles to inform people like you. He's not bashing corporations. He's pointing out corporate wrongdoing and the double standards of them not being held accountable while a blue collared worker would be punished for committing the same crimes.
Yep, the modern day Corporations are modern day Royality upon the earth. I am happy being nobody, nothing, & from nowhere because everywhere you go is the same as there are cash register's there, too.
Myself & mine shop where the poor people shop as we are poor by their Nation's standards, yet by other Nation's standards we could be living in the lap of luxury? I don't know?
Actually did go shopping today. Left symbolic Turtle Island. Visited a friend of European heritage as he lives in the area of the store so got to use that gas money wisely to visit people. Talked about the fulfillment of prophecy some, this, that, & the other, too.
To the store then another store, & then back to symbolic Turtle Island.
Also was informed I was zilched off a Right Wing Christian Republican Site by email. I posted under a topic they had something about "Their Image." Their Corporate Image. I informed them I do not have any politics in the post.
Yeah they have to protect Their Image at all costs. Now they consider Their Image has be hurt & wounded, & don't know what to do about Their Image. So how will they try to Sell their Image now?
The Book of Revelation talks about those who will be worshipping the Beast & the Image of the Beast. So is this Image of the Beast a False Image? A false image that could even include a false image of Creator & Jesus?
False Images where man upon the earth has learned to Market & Sell Images, A world of manufactured reality where all reality is manufactured & sold to people including thought?
Some people Spiritually Reject this world. That does not mean they can change this world, nor are they going to stop prophecy from being fulfilled, but they Spiritually Reject this world. This does not mean they don't love people or care about people at all.
In their Pyramid Structure everyone is in their Pyramid somewhere at some level of their Pyramid with the Masters as the Pharoah's of the Pyramid ruling on down through the structure like their Pyramid on the back of their dollar bill.
Of their Banks & Corporations it is written in the Book of Revelation about Mystery Babylon that merchants of the earth were great men who Deceived all the Nations of the earth with their sorceries.
Their Banks & Corporations deceive all the Nations of the earth. But they only do that until Creator/God puts it into the minds of men to burn Mystery Babylon in one hour that may or may not be man made fire. And yet the Hopi Prophet foretold of this land being pretty much off the face of the earth by man made fire long long long ago.
In Rev 19 Jesus returns to do away with their false world. Jesus actually rejoices over the destruction of Mystery Babylon. In realms of Spiritual Thought the Book of Revelation says, these are the ones how hated their lives in this world even unto the very end.
That is Spiritual Hatred, but not personal hatred. Spiritual Love says to love both your friends & your enemies. To pray for those who use you despitefully. If you love being used despitefully then you sure picked the right world to be born into.
It's like they learned to sell Christmas. Oh, it's Christmas because the Merchants tell us it is Christmas so like Pavlov's Dogs they have to go out & buy cards, stamps, & envelopes, & all sorts of presents to show each other we love one another. They've just brainwashed people through the use of psychology to think they have to buy a whole bunch of stuff on a certain day of the year.
They'll be selling Father's Day next. The the 4th of July. Then their Labor Day. The their Turkey Day. Then their Christmas. Then their New Year's Day. Be all the same political speeches next time around. Be all the same tv shows, talk show hosts, movies recycled, music recycled, just all the same manufactured reality all recycled & packaged & sold over & over again.
And so I drift off into my thoughts of if I had lived 1000 years ago in this land none of this world even be here. Was it completely perfect? I doubt it, but it wasn't all this.
So while my physical body is here I just might be elsewhere.
For there are no Banks in Heaven because God don't need a loan. And there are no taxes in Heaven because Ceasar don't rule there. Do they use Rome's money in Heaven with the Graven Image of Caesar upon it, or do they use America's money with the Graven Image of men upon it?
Yep, when Jesus said, render unto Caesar what is Ceasar's, I wonder if he knew that while it may look like Caesar is building some really grand swell paradise upon the earth all it will eventually do is turn into Hell on Earth?
The Graven Image of Caesar upon coin. And Augustas Caesar issued the decree to tax the whole world. Weeeoooo.
Just another day closer of my journey being completed through Caesar's world.
Life is good. What an experience! It's always best to forgive.
A Course in Miracles says,"The only true forgiveness is when we discover there is nothing to forgive," which can be read esoterically as- when there is ....nothing.....(to forgive)
thank you shadow dancer for your post and comments earlier (12:57).
you are spot on - greed and money, buy more shit.
an old story friend. maybe one day the lazy americans will get off of their asses and find the money, find the nonexistant wizards behind the curtains. maybe not.
more likely when the wal-mart closes, they'll grab their guns and start shooting everything in sight. maybe not.
we'll see, but i'm going to remember a dream tonight as i drift off to sleep tonight in the land of green paper gods.
Banks of Marble....
{I've traveled 'round this country
from shore to shining shore
It really made me wonder
the things I heard and saw
I saw the weary farmer
plowing sod and loam
l heard the auction hammer
just a-knocking down his home
But the banks are made of marble
with a guard at every door
and the vaults are stuffed with silver
that the farmer sweated for
I've seen the weary miner
scrubbing coal dust from his back
I heard his children cryin'
"Got no coal to heat the shack"
But the banks are made of marble
with a guard at every door
and the vaults are stuffed with silver
that the miner sweated for
I've seen my brothers working
throughout this mighty land
l prayed we'd get together
and together make a stand
Then we might own those banks of marble
with a guard at every door
and we might share those vaults of silver
that we have sweated for}
les rice - 1950...
...peace...
iowa black bird
chestnut brown canary
ruby throated sparrow
voices of angels
rising around the moonlight
asking me, said she so free,
"How can you catch the sparrow?"
stephen stills 1970.
iowa black bird...now,
Let us stop these
corpse-eration driven
insane wars done in our name. We must.
By organizing and protesting cohesively and using the FCM to our advantage.
I am feeling blood on my hands now.
I must act, protest, organize, get arrested to stop this or I won't respect myself anymore. I think poster nicholas101 is here with this.
AfPak is my responsibilty to help stop.
The country I call home is doing the killing.
The shrinking of corporate liability is a symptom of what is wrong with our system and what a swiss cheese joke it has become. From the article and the comments, it is clear to me that we have a lot of blind Obama followers who have no intention of accepting the fact that both the Democrats and Republicans are responsible for freeing corporations of their liability and allowing them to go unpunished. Likewise, these same Obama diehard followers allow their party to copy the GOP and act so partisan in nature that they'll not only praise a Democrat for doing everything they'd criticize the GOP for doing but they have the nerve to blame Nader for costing elections. While I may have voted Obama, I support and defend the right of people to vote for the candidate of their choice and I do not support choking 3rd parties off the ballots or presidential debates. I say the same thing to the Bush/Mccain diehards who are losing their basic welfare to give up party loyalty and try to focus on what's really important when you elect a candidate. Not only must 3rd parties organize but they need to snatch votes significantly from both parties. I'll bet you all the money in the world that of the 60 million who voted Mccain, 25 million of them would have voted for Nader had these voters had been given a better understanding of Nader and all that he stands for. Take an addition 30 million votes from the 69 million votes for Obama and here's what we would have in a just world:
Nader - 55 million
Obama - 39 million
Mccain - 35 million
It is possible to take plenty more Republican votes when the focus is on the economy and foreign policy and not clout and celebrity status.
I wonder, if Obama had lost to McCain, and the Dems decided to blame Nader, would we be hearing how Obama WOULD HAVE rolled back the abuses of Bush?
We certainly have heard the myth that Gore was much better than Bush.
And yet, is Obama actually rolling back the abuses of Bush...?
No.
But he is coming up with "great" ideas like indefinite preemptive detention without trial and expanding the war in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Oregoncharles
Exactly! And that is why I am relieved that Obama won over McCain. I voted for McKinney but knew she had no chance. I always said: When the Dems win, with both houses of congress, they will finally have to stand before us, stark naked in the light.
Now, let us take a good look.
Thing is, the PTB have things cookin' for the next election. We know they do, they always do. Are we going to let ourselves be jerked around, divided and conquered .... again?
Did you vote in the OR primaries?
"Are we going to let ourselves be jerked around, divided and conquered .... again?"
Are we being jerked around by elite propaganda or by our 2010 model Lexus SUVs?
Interested in learning more about what Nader is talking about, then go to our friends at POCLAD with a google search and see loads of information.
To win an election, one must raise issues of importance to the
citizenry. All you no-nothings that are blaming Nader for losing Florida, please tell me how many issues did Al Gore
raise so that he could win the election?
After all the years that he has been out of office, Gore
has yet to raise an issue. Telling us that the Ice Pack in
Alaska is not raising an issue, any college proffessor can
tell you that much. Why hasn't he spoken up about Halliburton
and their contracts in Iraq, and the building of Detention
centers in this country? How about the Carlyle Group, a Bush Family Corporation getting government contracts?
Gore has enough money so that he could take time of and study
the issues of the day and make them public if he had the balls.
Machine politicians like Gore and Clinton go along to get along and get a piece of the action. Nader is not on the recieving
end of government contracts. Why is Bubba Clinton getting so many millions of dollars from outside this country as donations to his cause, what ever it is??
Why did Yale give a honorary degree to Hillary?
they should give one to Nader for his devotion to the country
an act that the Clintons do not participate in.
...and in the scheme of things....what is it exactly that they have gained in priviledge? The right to plunder, pillage and burn? To become murderers and minions for evil? These people are not even frankenstein, they are abomination. They have attained a full status against God and nature, and God and nature is against them. Privilege? You say? I say god help them, each and everyone for the curse they have brought upon themselves and my conviction to separate from them and everything they touch has been strengthened a thousand fold by the forces of love, god, nature and everything good.
Something wicked this way comes to them and all who are tied within any allegiance to them, be it jealousy, desire, or vengeance. Just as we would not get near the rabid dog nor call it privileged, why Nader can't quite call it like it is, not privilege but poverty, not wealth but ruin, I do not know. We will never be safe again until we can see what these corporations really are, sick, a veritable plague for which there is no cure and to be avoided at all cost.
If the Democratic party is too corporate-friendly now, Isn't it because of the way people vote locally? Wouldn't it be pulled left if the attitude of the country changed?
It seems to me Kucinich speaks his mind and votes independently, maybe you guys think he, Chomsky and Zinn are corporate shills too.
I'm not picking a fight, I'm just not convinced that the party is some kind of mind-controlling Orwellian blob from the vortex.
I love Kucinich, but I think he is the exception, not the majority Democratic party opinion. I like his colleague Marcy Kaptur too.
Debbie,
I voted for him in 2004, and would of done so in 2008 if he hadn't of bailed. I will not vote for him ever again for president, unless he quits following the party line for president.
I respect him a lot. I hope he continues to be an extremely important progressive voice in Congress, but he really needs to back of supporting any Democrat who receives the nomination.
My dream is that he & other progressives break away & form a third party.
Yes the people can pull these parties left like little puppy dogs. It's an influence contest, the people versus the elites. It's a contest for power, the upper hand. Of course the oath of office says the people are boss. This is why most debate is idiotic, or subversive. The debate is over. The people own control over public policy. The elites have stolen it.
I really think you guys are over-estimating the role of the president. If we get more good people into congress, the govt will be more representative and more democratic-especially if we can abolish the senate. The problem is people are gullible-most fell for the red scare and are to busy/distracted to get political. The fact that there are so few progressive economists is a big problem.
Now everyone is more familiar and comfortable with the idea that corporate charters should only be temporary and dissolved within minutes. And that courts do stupid things and should not be relied upon. The people have an advantage today we haven't had through the age of TV monster-propaganda: The internet, the great equalizer.
Corporations are the modern royalty. Smashing royalty was the spirit of the founding of this nation. Join in coalition with the natives. Vote a native into the oval orifice to keep the royalty out. Get a clue, people, and try something different than the cyclic destruction of lesser/greater royal. Vote "third party" in all your exchange/association.
My sins include voting for BO, and I am disappointed terribly. I take the hit. Guilty. When I was younger I revered Nader, the hater of corporations, so lucid and passionate.
However RN quickly became known for playing the stock market! And now holds heavy stock in the very worst corporations.
I am NOT attacking Mr. Nader who is a good man, who has written great articles on CD recently that I've praised unequivocabally.
However I admit BO is often wrong. I take the heat for my vote. AND, I also feel honesty makes reading RN's article condemning corporations hard to read when RN invests in them. Cisco. The MIC. Millions. In my experience Nader's supporters see no contradictions here.
I've tried to express myself extra courteously right now, and again, have praised RN on CD lavishly of late. Xlnt writing. But re corporations? How can you assail from what you profit from? Honestly, it clearly eviscerated his capacity/motivation to expose and lay bare truths. ie, pretty darn mellow indictment of corpse-erations in this article today.
Peace out there, "But I could be wrong."
azjoe,
I understand what you've gone through and you're not alone. Trust me. At least you're not like some of those Obamabots such as Nebraska Nathan1 and a few others I saw on the threads. I can imagine JenniferBedingfield and Red Rick reading this and even wanting to apologize to you for going too hard on you. They don't mean any harm on you. I think that they're young (JB admitted that she was but don't know of RR but think he likely is) and very saddened and frustrated to see how the system is thrust upon them and they are rendered almost helpless and miserable but I don't think they meant to hurt you either. I know it's often difficult to convince voters to consider voting outside the two major parties when they're so used to it. Isn't it ironic that just like Bush, Obama united us in unexpected ways?
Hello Dennis Duncan, yes, a unification of rage and an ironic pendulumn-swung unifying via realizing exhausted possibilities. I hope to hear of organizing for a viable alternative, 3rd party, in 2012 soon. I'd like to help.
I wonder though, if politics, the processes by which those who have wealth conserve and enhance it are the problem, can they be any form of the solution?
Thanks for a kind post, joe
It's not hypocritical to own shares and campaign to nationalize/regulate industry. Thomas Moore said the same about Mark Weisbrot having copyright on his Guardian columns. We have to survive in the current society. It reminds me of "if you don't like the U.S, move to Venezuela.
Really? I did not know Mr. Nader was struggling to survive. I thought he invested in Cisco and Fidelity-Magellan Mutual Funds for Profit. And of course I know companies that make solar panels, recycling technology or healthy food do not present investment opportunities. How could they? Those are the industries of yesteryear.
My apologies, joseph. from california.
Po Thread, I sure dothank you from the bottom of my heart for being courteous. TrueThat.
PeaceOut.
Every day it's just another massive ripoff for the ordinary American citizen. For the thinking person trapped in this hell, there are only a few options left:
- Emigrate.
- Stay and refuse to participate in the fascist circus and try to stay as free and independent as long as possible.
- Try to blot it out with drugs, religion, entertainment, futile political activism.
- Die.
What I have observed is that when people get sidetracked from the topic into bickering we've been infected by a troll. So don't get sucked in. Every time Ralph writes, the battle of the 2000 election starts all over again. And I agree, the Bush family dynasty intended to steal that election and the Supreme Court stepped in to make sure it happened. Until then, I had respect for Sandra Day O'Connor, but not after that. Somehow it made it even worse when she said if she had known how far Bush would go she would have voted differently. So they took it upon themselves to choose our president. Just in case we wonder if the right wing Supreme Court is above politics. Hell No! I would like to think some justices are judges instead of politicians.
By the way, I don't even bother to read Nathan's posts.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
If Gore had won his own home state of TN, Clinton's home state of AR, or at least held on to WV or NH, there wouldn't be all this Supreme Court mess to begin with. Another thing, if Gore hadn't picked Liebermann who was a neocon and a corporatist in one, he would have had a better chance of winning an extra industrial state or two such as MO and/or OH. Gore had plenty of chances to win but his corporate support and his running a mealymouthed campaign along with picking a bad VP pick pretty much put him in the loser's column. Blaming Nader for Gore's loss in 2000 is nothing more than playing coverup for all of Gore's own faults and weaknesses. Just one more state to add and Gore could have left Florida off the map.
Oregoncharles
Thanks. Many of us who got caught up in the bickering needed to be reminded of this. I think you're right. A troll is among us!
I don't necessarily think it was only the Bush family dynasty who greased Bush's slide, though. It was a concerted effort.
Smedly Butler: "War is a racket."
Just read all about bank holding companies @Wiki.
War isn't the only racket.
Thanks to Ralph Nader, George W Bush was able to steal the election in 2000 and do away with corporate liability. President Gore would not have allowed it. Mr. Nader, please go away and try helping local independent candidates trying to compete and share your vision. You may have lots of great ideas but you are a SPOILER who ruined it for this country but I'm glad Obama crushed extremists like you and Mckinney like a bug. Another favor that we ask of you is to please give back all that money you have been taking from defense contractors and other big corporations.
Oh please. If you don't like Nader, don't vote for him. Don't tell the rest of us our choices should be limited. What a stupid thing to say. There are two corporate party choices and that's all we can viably vote for? Sorry, not good enough. I was a new Nader supporter in 2008. If the Democrats can put someone worthy in the race in 2012, like Kucinich, I'll vote for him. If not, I'm voting third party again.
Mr. Nebraska Nathan--
Did you stand up and petition the Gov't in 2000 to push for a recount of the election??
I would say that you then, as well, contributed to Bush winning in 2000. And so did everyone else who didn't express their outrage that the Supreme Court was going to decide the election. This country is WE THE PEOPLE. Go ahead and blame Nader but we're all responsible.
There you go again. Just blame Nader for the Democrats' cowardice won't you? If we the idiotic electorate hadn't voted for Democrats or Republicans, Nader would have received our strong support but cornfed idiots like you are the reason we're so screwed ! Leave Mr. Nader alone already and I don't wanna see you harassing Sioux Rose either. If you can't understand her and you don't, then don't reply and anger her. She's the best person this forum needs and you and your Obamabot gang have no business hurting her. This country could in fact use Sioux Rose for president and if she were to run, I'd vote for her even if I couldn't campaign out there with my creeky bones.
Sioux Rose
DENNIS: Let's not get carried away, friend. Years ago as a college junior I had the privilege of participating in a unique program that allowed me to do a semester in London. I crossed paths with my first genuine spiritual medium, and at that time I was absolutely INFUSED with politics. He told me that I had to choose between the spiritual and mundane, but that it was intended that I do the work of healing those sick in mind and spirit. I do stay abreast of political circumstances as today they impact so many aspects of our lives: our health care, the state of the environment, how our collective tax moneys are utilized; but I realize the medium was right. I have a very intuitive nature and have always felt I serve a higher authority. Many in my field charge upwards of $150 an hour. There are psychic lines where people with perhaps an iota of intuition charge upwards of $5. a MINUTE to counsel the broken-hearted. I self-publish my books and have earned no income from this venue, but the money is not what motivates me. I believe I am a messenger, and so long as I study, try to practice the Golden Rule, keep my needs simple, I have time to dedicate to writing and teaching. That is what I bring to the forum, and hopefully through my books I hope one day to return to media. Voices like mine have been clearly shut out for about 15 years now.
Hear hear, Sioux. Money has ruined everything from education to profession and yet the greed machine still keeps going. I find these forums enlightening especially at a time when nothing on the television or radio makes any sense. This is a great place where people can reflect on themselves and on one another and even provide helpful and heartful roads to healing, reform, and possibly happiness. There will always be trolls on this site but I think that even if they're not kicked out, something or other will either force them to back off or face the consequences sooner or later. A young Indian girl told me how she used to actually love the village life where people actually felt happier because they were rich in mind if not money. I don't know how things are going in India these days but I heard that like China, that country is also leaning towards teaching children to think more in terms of money than on thoughts. I even heard that more villages there are being demolished to pave way for apartments, condos, and townhouses that were generally unheard of. It's as if they're changing from "Knowledge is power" to "Money is power" and we all know what happened in this country when that happened. Doing that in a country where the population density is far greater than ours is bound to have severe consequences. I'd much rather live in a village surrounded by nature than in a dingy apartment with all those harmful chemicals.
Thanks to people like you this once great country founded by people who were dissenters like Ralph, is now on the fast track to fascism. Please don"t vote until you educate yourself!!!!!
Tanks,
another dissenter
Dear Nathan...
And just what in the heck have the Dems done to change this "travesty" caused by Nader? How many executive orders has Obama overturned? How about the Democratic controlled Congress over the last 2 years? Have they managed to bring the Bush-Cheney criminals to trial? And let us not ignore the fact that Gore could not deliver his own home state, where Nader polled 1% of the vote! Or Arkansas, home of the Great Leader went to Bush in 2000? Nader got another 1% of the vote there.
Result of Ark/Tenn going Democratic? Gore:283 Bush:254
If Nader had been elected, he probably wouldn't have been able to accomplish his goals. But we would be a better respected country and you can be sure he would be laying out for the American people exactly who was responsible for screwing things up. He would have given us his best shot!
Thanks for getting the blood to flow. Give it a rest.
Spartacus recognized & acknowledged that he was a slave. That's more than we have, Nu?
"Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, 118 U.S. 394 (1886) was a United States Supreme Court case dealing with taxation of railroad properties. The case is most notable for the obiter dictum statement that juristic persons are entitled to protection under the Fourteenth Amendment."
And so, with the stroke of (a retired railroad president's) pen an all powerful and undying monster was created. Alas, the American people, like Ivan Tsarevich, are forced to face Koschei the Deathless but without the help of a Firebird.
I propose a "THREE STRIKES" ordinance for corporate crime. If it's good enough for other persons, it's good enough for corporate persons.
Take down a charter and make a precident.
I know what this old Indian geezer is going to do about the Corporations of your Nation, absolutely nothing. And why should I when Walmart is rolling back prices for me. But not just for me, for everybody. They don't care about my heritage at all, or if I am ugly, smart, stupid, or somewhere in between as all they care about is if I have money to buy stuff at their store.
They don't care if I am hip, cool trendy, or with it or all. All they care about is if I have money in my wallet to buy stuff. And I do have some, not a lot, of our European vistor's to our land, God of Green Paper. so I can go to the store & buy stuff. I have learned from our European visitor's to our land how to go to the store & buy stuff.
Good for me!
I don't know how the Tribes lived for 1000's & 1000's of years upon the earth without our European visitor's to our land, without their God of Green Paper, without their form of Govt, & their Banks & Corporations. How did they ever manage? It is beyond my belief they could live upon the earth without Europeans and their worldly system of doing things.
Of course their Environmental Scientists reported that they found Global Warming, according to their info, is going to be twice as hot as they previously thought just a scant 6 years ago as they talk about something they call Saving the Earth now. Gee I wonder how people would had to live with the earth in order not to destroy the earth? Maybe this dumb old Indian geezer will figure that our someday?
But I am an old geezer & their are children being born today all over the Planet & those children don't know nothing about nothing or that ES'r's have stated according to their info Global Warming is going to be twice as hot as they thought. That could lead to some horrible conditions upon the earth that people never even dreamed of but it would especially be more horrible for children being born today.
Life is strange, but at least Walmart is rolling back prices for me, and not just me, but everybody, by golly.
Thus I at least achieved in my life time going to our European visitor to our land going to the store & buying stuff with their God of Green Paper.
That's something isn't it?
Life is good. What an experience! It's always best to forgive.
Great post ShadowMan!
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Sioux Rose
SHADOW: Nice little satire on Wallmart. You know they began to break ground to bill a supercenter outside of Mexico City where the sacred Pyramid of the sun and Pyramid of the moon are located. Archaeologists and concerned persons tried to stop them. I don't think they were able to do so. (If I am wrong, I stand corrected and appreciate any update on this situation. I don't have TV access.) In any case, if they did break ground there, one would hope that the curse of Montezuma or another Aztec or Mayan 'god' would do their board of directors justice. Sooner or later the exploitation of this DISGUSTING corporation will catch up with them. Sometimes I wish I could believe in the transmigration of souls and thus feel relieved that the likes of those who steal the trees and lives from the young and dreams from new lovers would know endless lifetimes as earthworms or gnats.
Nader:
No problem. There is always chapter 11 voluntary bankruptcy to terminate obligations to creditors, dealers, litigants, and other claimants with pennies on the dollar.
===========================
Tell me about., you'd think we individuals were afforded the same luxuries to dissolve and restructure, but not when it comes to credit card/revolving credit debt. Not anymore. Bankruptcy for the little guy is, well new and refreshing! Corporations now have similar collection powers as the IRS.
House, car, etc. Lien on your paycheck? You bet your bottom dollar.
Got a car? Don't drive to the courtroom where Chase is suing you. They'll have the court take the keys out of your hand.
Now we see an increase in worthless, expired "junk debt" over 10 years old being sold for "pennies on the dollar" to jackals/credit collectors who try to hustle poor people into paying this worthless "debt".
Not only do corporations such as credit lenders have you by the throats, they intend to make you pay for the expense of bleeding you dry.
Sioux Rose
CHUK: Very true. For the lighter side of a time of darkness, have you seen Terry Gilliam's "Brazil"? Once the anti-terrorism squad arrives to arrest the alleged terrorist, his wife is handed a bill (that she must sign) for his coming interrogation. Perhaps we are coming to that. Much in this film has proven unbelievably prescient!
Nice reference!
Helpmann: "... These terrorists are not pulling their weight, and it's absolutely right and fair that those found guilty should pay for their periods of detention and the Information Retrieval Procedures used in their interrogation. ...."
Brazil (Gillian, Stoppard, and McKeown, 1983.)
Sioux Rose
CHUK: I tried to watch the film with the guy I date who's been raised by born again right wing Republican parents. He said the film was "stupid" and insisted I turn it off after the first 5 minutes. He entirely missed the analogy between that opening scene and what is already beginning in our nation's midst. Reminds me of the same knee jerk reaction on the part of a lawyer from Santa Barbara I met while staying at an amazing jungle resort in Malaysia. This was 2004 and I mentioned my view that 911 was an inside job. The guy refused to dine with me after this. It is EXACTLY the scene out of "A Few Good Men," as per "The truth? You can't handle THE truth!" Perhaps only those who feel their own innocence can stare down the belly of this beast knowing the Light will protect them. Whereas those convinced of their own guilt, raised on a psychic diet of sin, cannot countenance the idea that they may be part of a nation capable of these things.
Oh, well. Tough having someone near you who would rather close the door than suffer in the dark for awhile. There's always a light switch to help find our way, you know?
I have a friend with a "born again" for a sister. He loves forwarding her chain-style emails mocking her narrow version of Christianity. It's a funny circle they have going. She puts up with him because she's praying she can save him... and put his soul in a bottle? Saving souls (cough), bu-dump-bump....
see you in the coming threads here at CD.
Don't they do that in China, except the family is billed for the bullet used for the execution?
Sioux Rose
We can ask Kivals to ask his wife.
In Maine, we have a home rule constitution. The vote of the majority rules. Two towns in Maine and two in New Hampshire have now passed local laws that state that the town does not recognize corporations as people. Many towns in Pennsylvania have also. This will come to a head within those states. At that point if we are organized the majority can deny limited liability and personhood from corporations. Of course, there are many weak, co-dependent people that cling to corporations like ticks thinking that somehow the corporation will deliver them from slavery when the corporations are really their masters.
You could be in congress with Dennis, man. Run as a Dem.
The only way to fight back is to not use your credit cards, cash only.
Buy locally, at least the money goes to your state versus Deleware.
Use you local credit unions.
If you are so far in debt that you have nothing to lose, then
quit trying and walk away.Let the banks eat it.
Currently there is no debtor prison in the United States, so take advantage.
Watch how your representives from your states vote? Make as many people aware of there stand on the issues, who contributed to their campaigns, Change can start out small, and grow into something significant once each person takes responsibilty in supporting their local community versus the corporations.
They actually have the potential of shooting themselves in the foot.The interst rates of 29% are like payday loans. Most citizens are hopefully smart enough to never go down that road again!
Buy Local, pay cash!! Live with in your means.
Its hard lesson I am learning and will never put myself in this position again.
Sioux Rose
URSA: I agree about simplifying one's life and buying local, and don't forget consignment shops! However, if people do not pay guess who will be holding the tab? Those of us who do pay. I still believe in personal honor. All of my life I have lived with respect for principles of conservation. When my younger daughter's roommate (I was visiting) spent about 15 minutes taking a shower, I felt like bursting through the door to turn the water off. Even a ditch digger would probably not require 15 minutes to wash himself off. People see water as cheap and waste it, but it is such a precious resource and in short supply in South Florida (where the peacock resides).
The entire facade that's stolen trillions in assets from the Great Mother and turned the trades into paper money has disconnected persons from the true source of wealth and what state it's in. There is so little respect. How many Americans routinely waste food, buy things they never use, leave their gas guzzlers running in supermarket parking lots, use heavy equipment to mow a small lawn? Part is the driving media mantras that hypnotize minds 24/7, and part is pure laziness and disrespect for the sacred. One way or another we will all have to scale down for our dollar has just been essentially watered down and the impacts have only begun to reverberate.
While Ralph Nader draws a more detailed line of what has turned into a "Frankenstein," he offers no solutions.
Additionally, while railing against the chartering of corporations moving from legislatures to an executive agency, he fails to acknowledge that the sheer volume of of people starting corporations is beyond the scope of any state legislature (if you don't believe me, spend an afternoon in any state Secretary of State office that handles incorporation matters).
Thirdly, he limits his scope to the United States, while corporations were invented in the Dutch Republic in 1602, "perfected" in Great Britain soon after, and have become world wide entities on to themselves whom transcend national borders.
Thus the problem of Frankenstein corporations is a truly complex one that defies easy solutions, therefore I propose the following steps:
1) Abolish corporate personhood via a 28th Amendment to the US Constitution. Only natural persons should be entitled to 14th Amendment protections, not de jure ones.
2) A corporation may only do business in the state that it is chartered in (expect Delaware, Nevada, & South Dakota to scream about that one, as they are incorporation havens). If they wish to conduct business nationwide, then they need to be chartered by the Federal Government (which already has jurisdiction under the US Constitution's interstate commerce clause).
3) Foreign corporations who's US business reaches a certain financial threshold must incorporate their American operations or be subject to a punitive tariff when they move their funds off-shore.
These above steps are not perfect, but they would be a start.
NateW, I'm afraid that you are more guilty of ignoring solutions than Mr. Nader.
All of the steps that you list depend entirely on the support of the general electorate but you fail to discuss removing the mainstream media - key to generating that support - from corporate control.
q
Did you read the entirety of my post? If so, the proviso of the problem extant would have been obvious...including corporate control of the older means of mass media (which was left unwritten, as it is almost a point that is fairly obvious to a regular denizen of this site). I merely pointed out that Nader correctly pointed in more than average detail, but offered no solutions. I therefore went ahead and proposed some...which is something that Nader omitted for whatever reason (I suspect because it easier to complain without offering a remedy than rail against something, then offer a solution...which would then be subject to criticism and comment beyond what is prepared to bear).
Nate, the inclusion/omitting of proposed solutions after defining/analyzing the problem is a stylistic/strategic choice. Many readers want to let the analysis sink in before considering solutions. But it would be productive to have a standard media template with hyperlinks from analysis to policy areas. Common Dreams could for example expand its staff to compose bridges between each analysis and public policy material, in a readable way. This is a lot of work, but it's the kind of enterprise that would greatly benefit the people as opposed to "cheap" fossil energy, and mega-tons more "freeway" concrete.
rtdrury,
I think Wiki's format is good for this (not wikipedia which uses the same technology): simple "index cards" that anyone can add to. CD would manage them, to erase vandalism by trolls.
Best of all: It's opensource: means it's free!
I'm just learning about it now. I'm reading "Wiki's for Dummies."
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Sioux Rose
NATE: I think your remedies are good ones, if they could ever be implemented. Please do not speak ill of Mr. Nader who has devoted his entire life to making citizens aware of the growing power and danger of corporations. Had there been more like Nader, perhaps enough citizens would have wised up before the media campaign of obfuscation succeeded in so clouding the issues, and creating diversions for groups to fight over, as to dissipate the power of a citizenry united. Then persons might have collected to fight for the issues that most concern them.
On a side note, since it was not stated, the same corporate mindset is very active in the publishing & entertainment fields. Writers like myself hope to get their big break by selling a movie script to Hollywood and to do so one is invited to submit their script to a variety of contests. The worst place to submit is Disney. The form that accompanies one's submission is several pages long, and basically says that by offering one's work, one gives up any claim to ownership. The premise is that Disney PROBABLY already has your idea and if you tried to sue over copyright infringement, you would end up paying your legal fees along with theirs.
Sioux Rose said, "... The form that accompanies one's submission is several pages long, and basically says that by offering one's work, one gives up any claim to ownership. ...."
Interesting point. You see, I was under the impression 'claim to ownership' had to do more with "works for hire" scenarios than the notion Disney already had the script idea. I understood it to be that you and I as artist were hired "at will", for a "work for hire" and this limits our rights to ownership and copyright. I don't agree with it at all, this is just how I understood the scam to play out.
Can you explain your experience to me?
Sioux Rose
CHUK: The way it seems to me is that IF they actually hire you, you retain certain rights. Generally what you produce under contract becomes theirs. I am talking about freely (not so free is my point) submitting one's work; and in this case, whatever one submits is PRESUMED open game because the writer may believe that it's HER idea, but Disney can claim they already have a similar idea in their files and if you challenge that, not only are you up against a system that tends to favor big capital over the little person; but if you lose, you must pay both sets of legal fees. In other words, unless the person submitting material is LOADED they will either not submit, or by submitting they are essentially giving up their rights to the work.
I had an agent interested in an astrology concept that used insects WAY before Antz or Bug's Life came out. I cannot prove that my idea to use insects was stolen, and depending on the judge the fact that I had a very different plot line sketched out would suggest that Disney and Speilberg were free to elaborate on their OWN insect themes. It's just interesting that apart from Jimminy Cricket, no one gave a darned about insects until I started circulating a specific manuscript. I have personally experienced other such "coincidences," and whether they represent that "200th monkey" phenomenon (once you get an idea to wash your banana, so does every other monkey) or something more sinister is impossible to know.
By the way the Mike Nicholl's contest and the Houston Heart of Film contests do NOT demand this level of forfeiture of the writer's rights.
Thank you for sharing your experience with me. It seems like a catch twenty-two: submit and risk being undercut by the very company you hope will buy your script.
Sioux Rose
CHUK: That's the rated GP polite version of the scenario.
CHUK and Sioux Rose, there is a great movie out on this theme, a true story called Flash of Genius about how Ford stole the invention of intermittent windshield wipers from it's inventor. Tells you what we're up against. These corporations feel entitled to do whatever they want. Lords of the manor.
Sioux Rose, did you get my response to your question to me? Yes, I am interested.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Sioux Rose
KATHY: Thanks for asking. I must have lost track of which thread I inquired on, so I never did see your response. I'd prefer you putting your data out there if you feel comfortable about that. I have had too many attackers lately to publish mine.
I will look up the film you recommended. I found so many I'd wanted to see at the local flea market for the price of 7 for $20!!! Since I don't have cable TV (or any TV) this find has proven quite the bonanza for me! Now I have all the Michael More films and some other favorites, a decent library for times when I don't feel like writing or being sociable.
I use Netflix for that...unlimited DVDs, one at a time, for $9.52 a month, plus unlimited access to watch the thousands of movies they have streaming from their website you can watch online instantly. It has a good collection of documentaries, I must have watched about a dozen already, and screened them at school for a student organization I was in last year.
error
I don't think he was speaking ill of Nader at all, just pointing out some details that Nader left out of this article.
Sioux Rose
ZMANN: If so, fine. I just think Nader has been superman and done more than just about anyone else to try to stop this beast in its tracks. To criticize what he was unable to do, well, not every David gets one powerful shot to take Goliath down in full.
I no longer see the need for corporations, except for non-profits.
We are mired in the old ways of doing things, to our daily detriment.
Non profits are a way for the very rich to avoid paying taxes and still have control of their money. Forget non profits. If we had a democracy all those issues that non profits are working on could be programs of our government.
bingo - the profit chase has led them to the edge of their flat earth
I know South Dakota has banking and Delaware has credit card companies--but what corporate headquarters are are you thinking of in Nevada?
Nevada has one of the lowest corporate tax rates (2%) in the USA, plus has some of the most lenient corporate governance rules of any incorporation statutes west of the Mississippi river. Nevada corporations are a popular option for west coast businesses and individuals desirous of the "corporate veil."
nedlud has mentioned the only way i can see to weaken the beast, (which, by the way, is us collectively) and that is to consume as little as possible of what is produced by corporations and provided by government.
coldponder, it is not the only way. Parallax pointed out we need the National Initiative (Ni4D) which can also be accessed at www.vote.org. If we become citizen legislators we can write our own initiatives that Congress refuses to address. We can even cut back their salaries (they aren't earning them anyway).
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Absolutely! Everyone needs to vote for this. We need to take control back from our elected officials. They have far too much power.
If you read the articles posted today to Common Dreams by Mr. Nader, Danny Schechter, and Ted Rall, then take a long hard look at what is going on around us, in my opinion there is only one conclusion you can come to. That is that the corporations now run this country and it's government with complete impunity. They can do whatever they want. None of them will be held accountable, and the average person can do nothing about it.
As far as I can tell so far our big vote for change appears to have been a total sham. Maybe I'll be proved wrong about that but I doubt it by what I've seen so far. President Oboma will do his best over the next 4 or 8 years to preserve the status quo, then go off into the sunset to become a multimillionaire from speaking fees and writing books. If we are lucky the average person may get a few small bones thrown their way. Thats about it.
Our politicians claim they are "Public Servants", B/S. They are "Corporate Servants" with their hands held out looking for cash handouts from their true constituents the big business clans.
After almost destroying the economy, instead of being indicted, what happens to the corporate thieves? Oboma's corporate insiders throws billions/trillions at them.
We average folks are done for. That's it, stick a fork in us, we're done. End of discussion.
Nader has the ability to articulate matters in a simple matter so that everyone could understand. Unfortunately, his political machine is poor and underfunded. Nader would make a great President if he could ever win.
Nader does not head a political "machine." He is a public advocate. If you want to see progressive change in this country, you need to start your own "machine." Study. Educate. Protest. Act. Every citizen his own Nader! That's why Nader is called "Public Citizen Number One"--because he sets an example of what every citizen should be doing.
Thank you, Mr. Nader, for a timely lesson about the greatest threat to human existence in history.
And it is history which gives us the solutions to this problem. Our goal must be to get people elected at the national and state levels who are willing to confront corporate power and reinstate the controls enacted under each of the Roosevelts. I like the idea of making all corporate charters temporary again.
I'll be the first to admit that doing so may be nearly impossible given the degree of corporate control of the media.
Those who propose violent reveolution muct consider the fact that far more innocent than guilty people would be harmed.
The best suggestion in this thread is for economic action. When I can, I try to buy what I need from the smallest business possible.
q
Corporations are people too!
They deserve the right to vote.
[I am not serious.]
Why not? As long as they can also be imprisoned after being convicted of crimes.
"As long as they can also be imprisoned after being convicted of crimes."
Yes, and put to death if they commit murder or treason, and taxed at the same rate as we mere humans pay.
F nicholas101!
Contribute something useful or go peddle your tired crap on moveon.
************
Nader's analysis is his ususal blend of scholarship and clarity, summarizing nicely the state of things as they stand.
But, as William Blackstone observed, a corporation has "neither a soul to save, nor a body to incarcerate." Does Mr. Nader have any suggestions as to how we might free ourselves from the clutches of this golem gone berserk?
Milton Friedman said, "A corporation can not be ethical. It's only purpose is to turn a profit."
Thom Hartmann talks often about this topic and how things have gone downhill since that supreme court note that corporations have the same rights as humans... We need to abolish corporate personhood.