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Wherever I Go, I Hear The Same Tired Middle East Comparisons
It all depends where you live. That was the geography of Israel's propaganda, designed to demonstrate that we softies - we little baby-coddling liberals living in our secure Western homes - don't realize the horror of 12 (now 20) Israeli deaths in 10 years and thousands of rockets and the unimaginable trauma and stress of living near Gaza. Forget the 600 Palestinian dead; traveling on both sides of the Atlantic these past couple of weeks has been an instructive - not to say weirdly repetitive - experience.
Here's how it goes. I was in Toronto when I opened the right-wing National Post and found Lorne Gunter trying to explain to readers what it felt like to come under Palestinian rocket attack. "Suppose you lived in the Toronto suburb of Don Mills," writes Gunter, "and people from the suburb of Scarborough - about 10 kilometers away - were firing as many as 100 rockets a day into your yard, your kid's school, the strip mall down the street and your dentist's office..."
Getting the message? It just so happens, of course, that the people of Scarborough are underprivileged, often new immigrants - many from Afghanistan - while the people of Don Mills are largely middle class with a fair number of Muslims. Nothing like digging a knife into Canada's multicultural society to show how Israel is all too justified in smashing back at the Palestinians.
Now a trip down Montreal way and a glance at the French-language newspaper La Presse two days later. And sure enough, there's an article signed by 16 pro-Israeli writers, economists and academics who are trying to explain what it feels like to come under Palestinian rocket attack. "Imagine for a moment that the children of Longueuil live day and night in terror, that businesses, shops, hospitals, schools are the targets of terrorists located in Brossard." Longueuil, it should be added, is a community of blacks and Muslim immigrants, Afghans, Iranians. But who are the "terrorists" in Brossard?
Two days later and I am in Dublin. I open The Irish Times to find a letter from the local Israeli ambassador, trying to explain to the people of the Irish Republic what it feels like to come under Palestinian rocket attack. Know what's coming? Of course you do. "What would you do," Zion Evrony asks readers, "if Dublin were subjected to a bombardment of 8,000 rockets and mortars..." And so it goes on and on and on. Needless to say, I'm waiting for the same writers to ask how we'd feel if we lived in Don Mills or Brossard or Dublin and came under sustained attack from supersonic aircraft and Merkava tanks and thousands of troops whose shells and bombs tore 40 women and children to pieces outside a school, shredded whole families in their beds and who, after nearly a week, had killed almost 200 civilians out of 600 fatalities.
In Ireland, my favorite journalistic justification for this bloodbath came from my old mate Kevin Myers. "The death toll from Gaza is, of course, shocking, dreadful, unspeakable," he mourned. "Though it does not compare with the death toll amongst Israelis if Hamas had its way." Get it? The massacre in Gaza is justified because Hamas would have done the same if they could, even though they didn't do it because they couldn't. It took Fintan O'Toole, The Irish Times's resident philosopher-in-chief, to speak the unspeakable. "When does the mandate of victimhood expire?" he asked. "At what point does the Nazi genocide of Europe's Jews cease to excuse the state of Israel from the demands of international law and of common humanity?"
I had an interesting time giving the Tip O'Neill peace lecture in Derry when one of the audience asked, as did a member of the Trinity College Dublin Historical Society a day later, whether the Northern Ireland Good Friday peace agreement - or, indeed, any aspect of the recent Irish conflict - contained lessons for the Middle East. I suggested that local peace agreements didn't travel well and that the idea advanced by John Hume (my host in Derry) - that it was all about compromise - didn't work since the Israeli seizure of Arab land in the West Bank had more in common with the 17th-century Irish Catholic dispossession than sectarianism in Belfast.
What I do suspect, however, is that the split and near civil war between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority has a lot in common with the division between the Irish Free State and anti-treaty forces that led to the 1922-3 Irish civil war; that Hamas's refusal to recognize Israel - and the enemies of Michael Collins who refused to recognize the Anglo-Irish Treaty and the border with Northern Ireland - are tragedies that have a lot in common, Israel now playing the role of Britain, urging the pro-treaty men (Mahmoud Abbas) to destroy the anti-treaty men (Hamas).
I ended the week in one of those BBC World Service discussions in which a guy from The Jerusalem Post, a man from al-Jazeera, a British academic and Fisk danced the usual steps around the catastrophe in Gaza. The moment I mentioned that 600 Palestinian dead for 20 Israeli dead around Gaza in 10 years was grotesque, pro-Israeli listeners condemned me for suggesting (which I did not) that only 20 Israelis had been killed in all of Israel in 10 years. Of course, hundreds of Israelis outside Gaza have died in that time - but so have thousands of Palestinians.
My favorite moment came when I pointed out that journalists should be on the side of those who suffer. If we were reporting the 18th-century slave trade, I said, we wouldn't give equal time to the slave ship captain in our dispatches. If we were reporting the liberation of a Nazi concentration camp, we wouldn't give equal time to the SS spokesman. At which point a journalist from the Jewish Telegraph in Prague responded that "the IDF are not Hitler". Of course not. But who said they were.
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33 Comments so far
Show All"The death toll from Auszwitz is, of course, shocking, dreadful, unspeakable," he mourned. "Though it does not compare with the death toll amongst Nazis if the Jews had their way."
Get it? The massacre in Auszwitz was justified because the Jews would have done the same if they could, even though they didn't do it because they couldn't.
God, how I wish Moses had drown in the Reed Sea.
The phrase 'Red Sea' is a mistranslation. And is widely recognised as such by Biblical and historic scholars.
The actual passage is 'Reed Sea' and the location has been narrowed down to the eastern area of the Nile Delta, a region long known for it's dense reed beds and treacherous tidal mudflats.
And it was not the waters of the sea that drowned the Eypytian charioteers, but rather a guerilla ambush that wiped out the army pursuing the escaped Hebrew slaves.
The story of the parting of the waters and the Hebrews magical escape is just an oft repeated bunch of hokum to dress up a rather mundane slave revolt.
But that doesn't stop those with a vested interest in maintaining the religious status quo from exploiting the young and/or gullible...
Walk in peace.
No archaelogical eveidence exists whatsover that Hebrews were slaves in Egypt.
All the professionals have been able to conclude from the digs is that King Davids kingdom was a few hill tribes in an area vastly smaller then Israel that built a fort on top a hill.
The Bible is not a historical record of anything.
Never was such a dude as moses - the whole egypt thing never happened. The hebrews were a tribe living in the hills east of the Jordan. When the wanted the appurtances of civilisatiion - such as anything made of iron - they had to come down out of the hills and trade with the philistines, who lived in Gaza.
http://www.users.bigpond.com/pmurray
http://www.paulmurray.id.au/ageofworms
The mantra that one hears over and over and over, from the propaganda media is: " ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF". So Hamas does not have a RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF, even though it is blockcaded and many of its woman and children have been killed and Israel is guilty of the most evil war crimes. Oh, I forgot----Hamas is the bad guys and Israel, the U.S. puppet, thugs, are the good guys. There is no good or bad guys, only the flow of $$$ and vested interests of the very wealthy and powerful elite.
Actually, Brossard has a large Arab population, and their MNA is of Arab descent. Brossard is also a lot wealthier than Longueuil which is more working class. Those writers in La Presse are clever with their propaganda.
Actually, the IDF are worse than Hitler. Old Adolph only had about 12 years in power. The Nazis were an aberration in German history. On the other hand, the Zionists have commited ethnic cleansing and murder for 60 years, and are definitely not an aberration in Israeli history.
We supplied Hitler and his folks our taxpayer dollars although it was more secret back then but we still supply IDF like crazy. It's just that today, the US government turns a blind eye and continues it even if we the people say no. The zionists are an aberration but it will take some time until that becomes clear for all to acknowledge it.
Bubbasouth:check your history. http://jamescarroll.net/Constantine.html on Jews and history. He was a priest and is a peace worker, writer and articles by James Carroll are often on CD. And for the story of Germany under Hitler, read the great book, "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William L. Shirer, an American. You got some pieces of history missing.
Oh yea, they've ethnically cleansed Israel, that's why over a million Arab-Israelis live peacefully in Israel today. What, nonsense. The truth is 180 degrees actually. After 1948 the Arab world collectively ethnically cleansed itself of it's ancient Jewish populations, driving these mils. of Sephardic ( Oriental Jews) to Israel while stealing their wealth. But, u would prefer not to hear about this part of the sorry story. You'd also not prefer to hear about the 5 Arab armies that moments after Israel was declared Indep.by the UN in May 1948 attacked with tanks, planes etc. Israel had none of these weapons but managed to defeat the Arabs anyway. If you were to believe most of the posters in these sites you'd think the Jews arrived from Europe en mass in 1948 armed with Tiger tanks and drove the poor peaceful Pals out. The truth is most left hoping to return the next day and claim their Jewish neighbors homes and land after the Arab armies had killed them. Oh well that as it turned out was a bad move.
Oh boy, another looney tune zionist !
Sephardic Jews trace their origin back to Spain.
Palestinian people have the right of self-defense.
Any rockets launched at Israel were preemptive strikes at terrorist enclaves. Collateral damage is regrettable.
One of the reasons the zionists hate the palestinians is that they fight back - something the jews never did when they were forced into ghettos. The Israelis are shocked, shocked, that the palestinians don't march meekly to the gas chambers like they did.
Don't those arabs know the *rules*? Don't they know how to be good little germans?
http://www.users.bigpond.com/pmurray
http://www.paulmurray.id.au/ageofworms
http://jamescarroll.net/Constantine.html
The reason the US, Canada, and even Europe are not looking at the issue correctly is we westerners believe in individualism. That said, the problem we have is the conflict does not actually affect us directly other than emotions for one side against the other. I'm not saying I support one side or the other in the Middle East but I do acknowledge that we're wasting taxpayer money giving Israel free money and high tech weaponry while leaving the Palestinians defenseless. But instead of just saying it at that, we need to connect that issue to our domestic issues that are affecting us. For example, connect that billions of wasted taxpayer money to the need to divert that spending to improving healthcare for all Americans, homeland security, public infrastructure on things like water and transportation, etc ... Then the US citizens will be successful on halting the shipment of our taxpayer dollars to the Frankstein that Israel has become.
P.S.: I might argue that the Palestinians could learn from India in learning to stand back up and fight back through culture and business because the US used to arm Pakistan against India but after 9/11, the Indians got sick and tired of the American politicians denying them the information needed to capture and hold the terrorists accountable that they changed their ways by picking up on the western values and fighting the west with them. Nowadays, America can no longer tell India to give up Kashmir and they can no longer criticize India for expelling Muslim immigrants who may have crossed the border illegally. I understand that the Palestinians are not going to find it anywhere as easy as India to fight back but if they tried starting today, they could be catching up in a decade or two and maybe even succeed in getting back their stolen state.
WYGUNSTON:"we" are told we believe in "individualism", by the Right wing, such as when you medical care, "it's your responsibility"=individualism. When the bailouts were taking billions and billions from the US treasury, where was "individualism"? Smoke and mirrors is "individualism". I remember, in re India as model, that Chomsky once said the Palestinians were doing well with nonviolence pre-intifada. India used nonviolence as Gandhi lived, but there was lots of violence around the movement. Phyllis Bennis made the point on WBAI Hugh Hamilton's "Talk Back", archived for 90 days from the show date of Jan.5,2009 www.wbai.org that it's not the Americans' government role to tell the Palestinians what they should want or get. She was also on DemocracyNow earlier in the day: www.democracynow.org transcript is online, free. You do have original ideas, whether or not I agree is irrelevant. I am just reminded of hearing M. Gandhi's grandson say that wherever England left, they left a divided mess, via map writing (such as Ireland, India/Pakistan....I'd put Israel/Palestine in there,too if you back to the Balfour agreement, Cypress, ...)
I don't see how the Palestinians are gonna be able to come up with a Gandhi role model to lead them at the rate Israel is crushing them helplessly. I think what WYGUNSTON means by individualism is that unless it hits us we somehow shouldn't be concerned but totally indifferent. He may be right if we're talking about terror attacks elsewhere around the world but in this country, there's too much blind support for Israel at the expense of looking the other way at the plight of the Palestinians. In my state of Mississippi, I come across folks who call Gandhi a "sissy" or even a "girl man model" and still believe that shoot first and ask later is the only way to solve problems. I'm not sure the Palestinians are gonna be comfortable with the idea of a Gandhi leadership because they have already witnessed Israel massacring innocent civilians and most likely have a negative feeling that such peaceful leadership will be next on the list. Until Israel quits using that "right to defend itself" excuse to attack relentlessly, I don't see any change coming for the better.
Try this on for size.
http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp01092009.html
The more things change...
Walk in peace.
The Glue That Holds Chaos Together
Well, the New York Times is reporting that Bush refused Israel's pleas to attack Iran. If this is true, then we have ample reason to withdraw all of our support from Israel. While we are at it, we should declare Israel a terrorist nation, because if they are trying to commit genocide while egging on a war with Iran, then they are a terrorist nation.
As far as the comparisons concerning the IDF and the Nazi's...
...Zionists, Shmionists, they are all NAZI's.
I dare say there would be more outrage if an arsonist set fire to an animal shelter and incinerated 800+ dogs and cats alive in the US Congress or mainstream media than the slaughter of an equivalent number in Palestine. Sadly, the value of human life is, in most circles, quite relative. It's usually inverse to skin melanin content, highest for Christians and Jews, and lowest for Muslims. It's also inverse to the amount of oil under their feet. Despite the religious and political platitudes spouted with great frequency and apparent sincerity, we're a long way from respect for the sanctity of life. American embryos and fetuses count for a lot more to most conservative than Arabs with lives, hopes, feelings, dreams and relationships.
Alex
goldenboy January 10th, 2009 6:09 pm
You make me sick.....
Recycling the talking points of pro Israel-lobbygroups and their PR-advisors -
http://www.jcrcboston.org/focus/support/resources/israel-advocacy-talking.html
http://www.adc.org/index.php?id=1789
(Americans - read here how your politicians were trained to "sell" you the idea that Israel is a good and moral country by referring to the war in Iraq and Saddam...)
- will not convince anybody with half a brain, that Israels political leaders, let alone the Zionist IDF generals have any moral or intellectual superiority...
Anyone who has taken the trouble to read the historic accounts of WHAT REALLY HAPPENED during the British Mandate, then between 1948 and 1967 and in more recent times after the first and second intifada, is fully aware that the state of Israel has committed many crimes against humanity and against international law but never faced any sanctions (thanks to the US controlling the UN and a fawning EU).
Of course we know that there is a lot of corruption and incompetence in countries like Saudi Arabia or Egypt but guess what - these are America´s best friends and allies.... (not to forget the oldest US stooge in the region - Jordan)
Without the damned interference of the US (Britain and France in earlier times), the whole region would have had a chance to develop into more modern and open societies (remember how Mossadegh in Iran was removed: every time (a leftist) democracy reared its "ugly" head in the Middle East, Britain and the US made sure that it was cut off.... Why? It is much easier to do big business and realize your "geo-strategic" (hegemonic) dreams with autocratic rulers who do not give a shit about the will of the people....
We also know, however, that the US has ENCOURAGED Islamic extremists (e.g. in Afghanistan the mujahedeen) but (in unison with Israel) also at the beginning Hamas in order to weaken the Palestinian resistance ("divide and conquer")by supporting a rival to the PLO (now Fatah). Besides, the PR-people in Israel even welcomed the election victory of Hamas because it would be a cakewalk to turn public opinion against a bunch of extremists and "terrorists" so that Israel`s "moral authority" (which is purely imaginary)and portrayal as the poor victim, always acting in self-defense, would have more credibility.
Your arguments show the underlying racism of the Zionist project: Even if we accepted your suggestion, that Israeli society is much better than any Arab country - this does not absolve Israel from its crimes which it is not even ready to admit! Instead, as Ilan PAPPE has pointed out in his books and Gideon LEVY here on CD (this is a MUST READ ARTICLE) - the self-righteous fury (rooted in Zionism) of Israeli leaders makes them blind to the great injustice the Palestinian people have had to endure for more than 60 years:
"the brutal warfare that has been forced on us.." - Give me a break - this is the ultimate hypocrisy and self-delusion....
I bomb and kill a trapped, civilian population, (even using new weapons like DIME which cause horrible injuries and cancer!) but "I was forced" (!) to be so inhumane, it´s not that I want to do it.....
20 Israeli civilians were killed by Gaza rockets in 10 years (after Israel had killed Hamas members and innocent bystanders)...
Israel kills 800 people in TWO WEEKS and wounds thousands in a desperate ghetto...
Robert Fisk has hit the nail on the head: (quoting somebody else)
"When does the mandate of victimhood expire?"
At what point does the Nazi genocide of Europe's Jews cease to excuse the state of Israel from the demands of international law and of common humanity?"
This question should be especially addressed to the hypocrites running the EU....
You knock the Israelis PR talking points but use the anti-Jewish PR.So anything anti-Jewish is okay and the absolute truth,but anything pro Jewish is tainted.This shows your hatred for the JEWS. You also ignore the fact that Hamas uses Mosques,schools and hospitals to hide their rockets and weapons so the Israelis would be forced to kill innocents . What other country at war sends warnings to the people to leave the area that they will bomb?So with your reasoning the Israelis should have waited for Hamas to kill 1,000 Jews so they can then can kill 1,000 Palestinians ,leave and wait for another attack.I'M GLAD I MAKE YOU SICK,you made my day!
Let us separate the Jews from the zionists. I love Jews I find them a warm, intelligent, social, caring people. Now zionists are a horse of a different color they hid behind the Jews. From what I have learned zionists have committed a huge number of huge crimes commencing at least eighty ago. Israel as the USA was concieved and maintained by violence. It is up to the zionist to redeem themselves,and until then no intelligent, honest person will ever uphold their cause.------------------ Thanks ---------- Peace ----------------------------
Hey goldenboy, how much do they pay you to write those lies? And, tell me, how does it feel to spout only formulations that are spoon-fed to you, and not to have any thoughts of your own? If you weren't so filled with hatred, I would think the utter emptiness in your brain is rather close to Nirvana...
Dear Clovis,What part of my statement is a lie?Your anti-Jewishness is showing,which is stupid because i believe all Religions are based on lies.Why are my observations spoon fed,are yours arrived at by osmosis?If all your retorts are insults it shows a deep lack of intellect on your part,so don't bother to respond if you can only resort to stupid insults.
The FACT is that Israel is wiping Palestine (and thus Palestinians) off the map, and has been doing so for 60 years. Look it up, maps of Palestine since pre-1948. btw, This is called genocide. A 6 decades long Holocaust. THAT too is anti-semitic.
Facts are funny things huh. And yet propagandized and brainwashed people still cannot abide facts because they get in the way of their preferred propaganda, delusions, or brainwashing!
--------------
Until you look within yourself --deeply, thoroughly and completely honestly --you will not see that you are in fact (at your essence, inside where it most counts) exactly like and related to all Jews, all Palestinians, in fact to all people everywhere. And until then you/we will not make the requisite positive changes in y/our thinking and behaviour... Until then...we can only dream of peace on earth.
IDF may not be Hitler, but these days they come pretty close. Apparently the brave IDF is using Palestinian families as shields to minimize military casualties - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/13/gaza-israel-war-crimes.
Honestly Serena, I do not think we have any more control over the US government than you do. And, may I add, I infer from your posts that you travel a lot, have produced plays and live a pretty privileged life. Perhaps that explains your haughty attitude. I didn't take my kids for a month in Europe when they graduated from High School. But we give $30 a month every month to Brooklyn for Peace and support lots of other things. We do things every day for peace. We have been arrested. Gaza is the responsibility of every human being. What are you doing?
Joe