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Greek Rioters Clash With Police as 10,000 Protesters Take to the Streets
Protesters clashed with riot police as more than 10,000 people marched through central Athens during a nationwide general strike against the government's harsh new austerity measures.
The strike grounded all flights and brought public transport to a halt. State hospitals were left with emergency staff only and all news broadcasts were suspended as workers walked off the job for 24 hours to protest spending cuts and tax hikes designed to tackle the country's debt crisis.
Protesters march during a 24-hour labour strike in Athens March 11, 2010. Greek public and private sector workers went on strike on Thursday, grounding flights, shutting schools and halting public transport in the second nationwide walkout in a fortnight in protest against austerity plans. (REUTERS/Yiorgos Karahalis) Riot police fired tear gas to disperse rock-throwing protesters at one point of the demonstration as more than 10,000 strikers and protesters marched through central Athens, banging drums and chanting slogans such as "no sacrifice for plutocracy," and "real jobs, higher pay." People draped banners from apartment buildings reading: "No more sacrifices, war against war."
The demonstrators included a group of about 100 youths wearing crash helmets and ski masks, some of whom smashed windows of a department store and bank, and sprayed riot police with brown paint. Shopkeepers along the demonstration route scrambled to roll down their shutters, while a few blocks away, people sat at outdoor restaurants, continuing their meals.
Fears of a Greek default have undermined the euro for all 16 countries that share it, putting the Greek government under intense European Union pressure to quickly show fiscal improvement.
It has announced an additional 4.8 billion euro (£4.4 billion) in savings through public sector salary cuts, hiring and pension freezes and consumer tax hikes to deal with its ballooning deficit, but the measures have led to a new wave of labour discontent.
The cutbacks, added to a previous 11.2 billion euro (£10.2 billion) austerity plan, seek to reduce the country's budget deficit from 12.7 per cent of annual output to 8.7 per cent this year. The long-term target is to bring overspending below the EU ceiling of 3 per cent of GDP in 2012.
The new plan sparked a wave of strikes and protests from labour unions whose reaction to the initial austerity measures had been muted. Thursday's strike was the second major walkout in a week, shutting down all public services and schools, leaving ferries tied up at port and suspending all news broadcasts for the day. However, some private bank branches were open despite calls from the bank employees' union to participate in the strike.
While their colleagues clashed with groups of protesters, some police joined the demonstration.
About 200 uniformed police, coast guard and fire brigade officers, who cannot go on strike but can hold protests, gathered at a square in the centre of the city shortly before the marches got under way.
"The police and other security forces have been particularly hard hit by the new measures because our salaries are very low," said Yiannis Fanariotis, general secretary of one police association. He said the average policeman made about 1,200 euros (£1,000) a month if weekend and night shifts were included.
Joining the protest "doesn't feel strange, because we are working people like everybody else and we are all shouting out for our rights," he said.
The government says the tough cuts are its only way to dig Greece out of a crisis that has hammered the common European currency and alarmed international markets - inflating the loan-dependent country's borrowing costs.
But unions say ordinary Greeks are being called to pay a disproportionate price for past fiscal mismanagement.
"They are trying to make workers pay the price for this crisis," said Yiannis Panagopoulos, leader of Greece's largest union, the GSEE.
"These measures will not be effective and will throw the economy into deep freeze."
A general strike last Friday was marred by violence during a large protest march. Riot police used tear gas and baton charges against rock-throwing protesters, who smashed banks and storefronts.
The unrest could spark fears that the government will have trouble in implementing its new measures.
Greece insists it doesn't need a bail-out, and its European partners are reluctant to fund one. But it has called for European and international support for its program, saying that unless it receives that support and the cost for it to borrow on the market falls, it might have to appeal to the International Monetary Fund for help.
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58 Comments so far
Show AllThe Greeks are one of the few people in the world who remain uncowed and un-propagandzed into passivity by the capitalist media machine. Good for them!
Solidarity forever!
TOTALLY! GOOD FOR THE GREEKS! We need to be more like them A LOT more! Look and learn, Americans. Turn off the d*mn lying TV set and stand up for your rights.
Good to see police and security employees in Greece protesting. They must not be brainwashed the way US police are.
Not one US police force protested when Congress ended the ban on assault weapons in the US in 2004. Criminals have been winning the arms race against the cops in the US and Mexico (US to Mexico arms smuggling is big business) ever since.
I agree...
I have a few greek friends - and although they are American - through and through, one might say -- they have family ties in greece...and somehow they seem to understand that the difference between the "HOME" greeks and americans are one between capitalism and socialism.
one thing that , i think, should not be forgotten is that while corruption or mismanagement are part of economic difficulties - and result IN difficulties -
the difficulty or a country like greece should always still be seen within the context of a "failing economy" (failing "socialist" economy , it can be said) -
that is simply trying to survive WITHIN a GLOBAL capitalist economy. ...and therefore is subject to the effects of that larger macro-economy of capitalism.
the greeks rioting or protesting - are in their way practicing openly --
that very thing they created millenia ago:
DEMOCRACY.
and in an economic and political context are saying and ACTING on it the very thing most others would not act upon or say - such as in the Capitalist USA:
"NO CUTS, HIGHER WAGES"....
and "don't blame ordinary people for the mistakes of the rich"...
which - put together is the sum of what a socialist principle tells - TRUTHFULLY.
We're all Greece now. The Greeks have been protesting in the streets since December against the bankster screw job, CD is slow on the uptake on this one. Check out youtube for video, or:
http://www.occupiedlondon.org/the-greek-riots/
for more details.
Hopefully this will spread worldwide. Just as soon as pigs fly probably.
We need to find a way to let these folks know where Blankfein and his buddies hang out.
q
hehe....
all highways and roads in Greece pointing to "GOLDMAN SACHS" - "blankfein" - ALAN GREENSPAN house....
"here thrive the GREMLINS".
roflmao...
As I understand it, the protestors are generally government employee's protesting cuts in wages and benefits.
If the government doesn't have the money and can't pay enough, what option is there?
Default on all loans owned to foreign investors. Raise tax rates on the wealthiest Greek tycoons. Nationalize the banks and issue their own Currency.
What exactly IS money after all?
It is just a piece of paper.
How is money created today?
One goes into a bank and asks to borrow money. The bank makes an entry on the computer indicating they have loaned you 50,000$$. They do not HAVE the 50,000$$ so how is it they HAVE it and the Government does not?
GWNORTH = GENIUS
for putting it in its most fundamental , truthful way.
THAT's all there is to it- it is NOT as complicated as pundits or media or "experts" or INDUSTRIES or financial regimes or bankers or "officers" or even governments make it appear...especially under the capitalist dogma in which even Greece - "failing as a socialist economy" - is merely trying to survive .
in the final analysis - it is EXACTLY as GWNORTH explained it....
both the reasons and the ACTIONS needed .
Teddy! Careful...
GWNORTH = GENIUS
Don't encourage him! :)
hehe....
I meant it well...because GWNorth often explains things so clearly and thoughtfully, imo...and I often wish i could do that too , as well as like others too - including yourself.
I have a bad habit of garbling so many things I read although I think I understand them pretty well...but still - when someone like GWnorth and others explain things a certain way -- i think that is so important and a achievement that's - to me - already the stuff of "genius".
it's not that easy , i think, to explain things that have become so "complicated" , more than they might be. it's like having to have the mental discipline to be able to unwind the different "threads" going on along with a particular subject .
that's why I have sometimes said - for all it's worth from me - I enjoy reading here because i DO learn from so many, my own perceptions are aided to be more refined or clarified by others.
after all - life is also about learning some more - or finding new ways to look at things that we thought were already "firm" in our minds.
and when i read some things like GWnorth just showed - it always reminds me :
"wow - that was EASY for him...how come I couldn't arrange ideas that way?"
lol.
and by the way -- YOUR exchange with GWnorth on banks, credit, issuance, etc...
is another example i meant where I'm learning so i can better understand other factors involved in all these discussions that might help me one way or another to further clarify my own views.
Teddy
"hehe....
"I meant it well...because GWNorth often explains things so clearly and thoughtfully, imo...and I often wish i could do that too , as well as like others too - including yourself."
Darn nice thing to include me. Though you are correct about GW and others here, I'm not in their league. I'm with you. I can't make things clear like they can.
But we don't want GW to get the "Big Head" even though he's a pretty good guy. And always right, except when he disagree's with me! (LOL)
Central banks are unnecessary. Governments can simply issue money as payment for infrastructure projects like bridges, highways, rail systems, ports, etc. This would not be inflationary because the infrastructure projects remain in place. Actual value, capital in fact, which is not money but "bricks and mortar" was created through the issuance of paper money, which then recirculates throughout the economy.
There is no reason the government couldn't set up "credit banks" to finance private projects like housing developments, factories, and businesses in general. Again, the money comes into existence "from thin air" and again is non-inflationary because actual value remains upon completion of the private projects. Isn't it the state of North Dakota that has already done this?
It isn't rocket science. The current banking paradigm tries to make it as complicated as possible in order that we NOT understand that they are unnecessary.
What IS inflationary is spending money for weapons and wars which are of use to no one in an true economic sense, weapons which are used to destroy and return no value as does a highway or a bridge. In fact negative value is produced in all of the destruction.
The bankers must go. The bankers are only good for the bankers, no one else.
You are perhaps the first person here that reflects the fundamental idea explained (at length) by the Asiatimesonline writer, Henry CK Liu -- about government issuance of "credit" - that eventually gets "re-used" over and over again perpetually and from which "taxes" are taken which the government's credit issuance is the guarantor that it will accept the denomination from the citizens because it is the one that issued them in the first place...it's more complicated than I can explain --but -- much simpler and more elegant than the way the money -supply regime runs in the current systems.
I think it is among his series of articles dealing with the Histories of Money, Currency, Sovereign wealth - the Difference between Sovereign Wealth from Sovereign Credit - and from that, Sovereign Debt.
and he explains why there should not have to be a contradiction between governments issuing this national credit to everything but in fact be an instrument to enhance the "national destiny" of every nation to provide for its inhabitants an economy of "ever-rising wages at full employment"..WITHOUT at all arriving at "inflation"...or devaluing of "currency"..
GwNorth
Interesting..."Default on all loans owned to foreign investors. Raise tax rates on the wealthiest Greek tycoons. Nationalize the banks and issue their own Currency."
Thaty would certainly cure their problem for the moment, but what then?
As you well know, money represents a value. And yes government can print money, but then the money has less value. Look at the gift Bush and Obama have given us. Debt, currency that is going to be worth less and less each day.
In Greece's case, their currency is the Euro and they cannot just print more, they actually have to earn it or tax it into the treasury. Their promises exceeded their taxes and earning ability. Its a problem all these types of government systems run into eventually as you know.
The bank has deposits to lend, or actual currency or bank credit...however the bank can certainly achieve the status of Greece can't it? A lot did.
So the result is if you spend more than you take in and no one will lend you any more and there is no more tax to be had, you go broke.
>>The bank has deposits to lend, or actual currency or bank credit...however the bank can certainly achieve the status of Greece can't it? A lot did.
No they do not. This is how the reserve banking system works. I suggest you review the multiple videos on this that are all over the web.
The banks might have ONE dollar in deposits and then lend that same dollar out 20 different times to 20 different people. They thus have created 19 dollars out of NOTHING.
That ONE dollar they might physically have on deposit was created using the same mechanism.
When they do this they charge INTEREST meaning more dollars must be paid back then were laoned. In order to physicaly repay more dollars then were in fact loaned out, more dollars must be created.
Greece should never have joined the Euro. Just as Canada should not have a common currency with the USA.
So back to your original premise. The statement "If you spend more then you take in" is fundamentally flawed because the OBJECT we are talking about is a CURRENCY that is FIAT and created out of nothing.
GwNorth
"No they do not. This is how the reserve banking system works. I suggest you review the multiple videos on this that are all over the web."
I thought I covered that with "or bank credit"
"Greece should never have joined the Euro. Just as Canada should not have a common currency with the USA"
There is a real understatement. The Greeks should have stuch with the Drachma and the thought of Canada having a common currency with us should give everyone a shudder. What would I do with my Loon's?
"So back to your original premise. The statement "If you spend more then you take in" is fundamentally flawed because the OBJECT we are talking about is a CURRENCY that is FIAT and created out of nothing"
Here I must disagree. The object we are speaking of is a method of exchange. Be it colored bead's, horses or paper currency, when you don't have enough of it, or it is worthless because there is no value behind it you are in trouble. And we are sperasking of DEBT not currency. The actuality, not the method. Yes?
Greece's problems are systemic. They extend beyond just joining the Euro. As NateW points out, tax evasion, also corruption, both of which results in a HUGE grey / black market economy that some people estimate at 30% of GDP; 30% of the economy that doesn't pay taxes; the percentage of uncollected tax is higher than the percentage of the budget deficit. Think about that.
If Greece was not in the Euro, if Greece leaves the Euro now, it will be taken to pieces. Notice what happened to Iceland? Proudly not in the Euro. And then when they went bankrupt, clamouring to join the Euro.
The other point that no one has mentioned, which surprises me on a site like CD, is the speculators and the CDS issue.
Good points all!
Veritas the dirty secret of late finance capitalism is money does not represent real production or assets, it is 100% fiction. That is proven by the fact that just before our recent crash the derivatives and other commercial paper speculative economy was in the trillions every years ie much larger than the actual productive economy. When that imaginary structure crashed out we didn't suddenly lose real labor value, or capital and other assets, but simply numbers run up in a computer that weren't backed with anything.
The whole heart of this is fractional reserve banking where banks only have to keep a relatively small percentage of the value of their loans on hand, ie they are able to leverage the value of their deposits many times. This sort of leveraging also seen is credit default swaps *always* leads to a crash precisely because the money involved isn't representing any real value. Buying stocks on the margin another leveraging game was one of the major causes of the great depression in the 30s.
This is information the wealthy elite is very careful to keep from the proles. Freactional reserve banking and usary interst are the very essence of the capitalist Ponzi sceme.
I suggest you read the story of money to get up to speed Veritas:
http://www.relfe.com/plus_5_.html
Kudos for the Greek People. They still have collective nads. General Strike - we need that here in America. And we must have as many as we need to bring the System to it's knees. It can ignore us only to it's own peril.
General Strike !!!
We the People are either going to have to have a general strike and shut this country down; nothing runs, no customers, no employees, power grids down, no planes fly, no ships enter or leave. Everybody just hunkers down with candles and a good book, wears several layers of clothes, eats simply from the pantry and waits. It wouldn't take long for the Oligarchy to feel it.
Unfortunately, there would probably be martial law, blood in the streets, the KBR concentration camps would start to fill. But, if we kept our cool and didn't give in to pressure, we could get our country back (what's left of it) as soon as it was no longer profitable to squeeze us.
Alternatively, we can all go on as we do now, fighting over the 1-2% the Oligarchy has left to us, selling out to the corporations, giving more money to the MIC until a hundred million or more of us are homeless, living under cardboard, watching the limos drive by and begging for a little food for our families. That is what the Oligarchy considers the natural order of things.
Somewhere in there, the kettle is going to boil over. Then we will see real bloody revolution in this country. The slaughter will be terrible as the government uses its troops and high tech weapons, drones, the heat ray, sound projectors, etc.
I'm not too sure who would win. Possibly the military would have enough spunk to refuse to kill their own people. That could trip the balance.
Either of the above would be difficult, but I think the strike would be less perilous, especially since that could happen before we were all dispossessed.
This is going to MUCH harder to organize in the United States of America. Socialism and Communism were both much more accpeted by the people at large in the USA in the 1920's. This in turn led to the formation of strong unions and in fact ultimately led to FDR's financial reforms.
In essence FDR saved "Capitalism" with those reforms and staved off the peoples push to embrace Socialism.
For the next 50+ years the Media and the Government then did everything they could to demonize Socialism and Communism so as to ensure it could never regain a foothold amongst the workers.
In Greece and In Europe, there is NO SHAME when a person carried a sign that indicates his or her allegiance to Socialism, unionism and the like. In the USA it the opposite . "Liberal, Socialist and Communist" are all dirty words.
You can see the difference in the types of demonstrations. The Grreks call for more Socialsim and are chanting kill the plutocrats. In the USA protesters carry signs that Obama a SOCIALIST and that is why the country in such a mess.
At the turn of the century, it was the mostly Italian anarchists who were the most powerful. There was also WWI Pacifists and Sufferagettes.
I would describe the unions rise and Socialism and Communism as going hand in hand simultaneously.
BUT, never forget that the US labor movement is unique in that it was subjected to thorough campaign of anti-socialist "cleansings" - from Sam Gompers in 1900 to George Meaney from the 1950's to the 1970's.
Then, with the socialists banished, Kirkland, then Sweeney proceeded to dismantle and virtually outlaw the only real tool workers had - the strike and other direct action through the 1980's and 1990's.
Organized labor in the US today is unique in it's lack of connections to political socialism, and it pathetic state of deliberate disempowerment. European union workers, especially the Greeks, could only laugh out loud at the pathetic state of organized labor in the US if it werent so tragic.
I agree. "LABOR UNIONS" in the usa - for whatever LITTLE benefit they supposedly give for their members are really become the APPENDAGE to corporations.
they do this under the rubric of "working TOGETHER" with "business" - compromise after compromise..and are in themselves a form of BUSINESS also - rather than as a real representative of the interests of LABOR as an EQUAL or even SUPERIOR of money capital..AND the TRUE collective SOURCE of money capital that has been accumulated into a few hands by means of "money printing monopolies" by the state that is represented by the "private" banking industries that , in turn represent the BUSINESS UNIONS....named otherwise as "industry chambers of commerce".
Let's not romanticize about Europe. Many of the more powerful unions there are also connected to the dominate "left" parties in their governments, as our is connected to the Democrats. European political parties have been moving right for many years now. Furthermore, most unions are counter-revolutionary. They channel worker discontent into the hierarchy of union, which then begs for crumbs from management. All the while retaining the exploitative hierarchical structure of the companies. Workers then rely on union management to decide their battles. This is certainly true of American unions, but also dominate unions in Europe. There are smaller, more radical unions in some countries.
Blackwater is to kill us. Already has been deployed in New Orleans.
What has gone largely unmentioned (unless the piece has a bit more length) is one of the root causes of the Greek debacle: rampant tax evasion, especially amongst upper income earners (Greek doctors are particularly notorious for claiming a pauper's income while owning yachts that sit in Pireaus). It is estimated that at least a third of the Greek economy is black / under-the-table (not declared to the tax authorities). A large part of the anger of the demonstrators is that upper income types avoid paying their fair share, combined with the prior conservative government's financial follies with Goldman Sachs, and they are being stuck with the financial pain...and they have said in a resounding manner (Iceland as well), NO! Unless the current Greek government can effectively show they can actually make their elites pay up, they may very well have an insurrection on their hands.
good point Nate, this article covers this a bit more
http://socialistworker.org/2010/03/11/in-the-eye-of-the-storm
very well explained NATEW...
i agree that more often than not, in fact, probably , throughout history and in ANY culture, it is the RICH and those that are already advantaged or "hope" to become among the advantages over the masses that , as part of keeping their advantage or having the means or using the means towards that advantage that find ways, very clever ones, to escape their social obligations as PART of society in which they thrive with their advantages.
so -- when the REST of the population, which , because of this gaming of the system by the advantaged, when it tries to get by - including by obeying social rules of fairness , realize or get tired of paying ITS dues (through laboring and then getting little back in return because of the gaming of the system by the advantaged) (such as paying taxes)
then people GIVE UP ....and become cynical:
"why bother to follow the rules - when we try to be fair but in fairness expect that what we put in will come back to us for our general welfare we can all share in, we find it it's been collected and used for the benefit of the FEW above us?"
one might even say:
if the advantaged - for whatever reasons:
by way of their having started better off, or having education and professions, or being in work that is in demand, etc - TAKE advantage of their position over those less privileged than they ...are therefore seen as the "most successful" and "leaders" of any community ...then their BEHAVIOR of escaping their social obligations to contribute BACK to society that has given them the environment to become advantaged becomes the BAD LESSON for the rest of the population below them to imitate or try to match in order to "just get by".
the people "below" then say:
"the rich are doing this -- so why shouldn't WE?..they DON'T pay taxes - so why should WE?"
and in THIS - the GREEK population - are actually doing the NATURAL thing to do..including their rioting. because they are basically saying:
"THE RICH MESSED things up by keeping to themselves so much of what we ALL collected together, even if individually , most of us contribute only a little each - but COLLECTIVELY it is THE economy for all of us -- so why should WE the ordinary folk PAY for the mess the rich created? why should WE pay taxes when the rich are the ones TAXING US of our labor and our wealth to enrich themselves some more?"
the Greeks , in the most essential sense - have it down RIGHT.
they have NOT forgotten the ancient Greek sense or lessons in their tragedies and myths and plays of JUSTICE. and they live very close to its essence. ..rather than be blinded by the modernities and sophistications that are just veils on the TRUTHS. eternal truths of justice and fairness.
for better or worse, effective or not, they have it from deep in their GUT - the sense of it all.
they have BALLS - they have GONADS. ...and NOT LEAST because they, as the ordinary folk -- WON"T take responsibility for the MESS that the RICH really and the system designed and gamed by the rich have fostered on everyone.
they say it as they see it, and they see it as it , in fact, IS:
"we the people didn't make THIS mess...you, the GODS UP THERE - did this".
this is , in fact, the modern way of the greeks acting on the GODS - revolting against the gods themselves .
quite amazing, really...for the ancient greeks created the mythologies of gods that -- no matter how powerful - the greeks MADE them FLAWED...often as flawed AS humans..and FORCEd the gods in their created images - to be as subject to the laws of JUSTICE.
amazing people, in a way.
it makes me recall one anecdote by a long-ago fine teacher of mine. in music...
in all his travels giving concerts in classical music - he said that of all the countries he most admired it people, with all their flaws - it was the greeks.
What's the difference between Greece and California ???
Difference is that California is a bigger bankruptcy.
Now this is how it is done folks; take note. Our comrades in Greece are teaching us a lesson, we need to learn from them as well as our friends in Bolivia and Venezuela.
Think it's a bit too soon to say that. Some demonstrations do not equal a revolution, and a revolution could very well be something equally as bad, a socialist state for example, which retains the power structures that serve the few at the expense of many, that produce corruption, that is doomed to failure and a return to the capitalist system from which the power structure developed with.
Where did you get that information? It seems you need to take a college course on socialism. Nothing personal, the vast majority of US folk don't have a clue when it comes to political theories or terms like "liberal" "socialist" "anarchist" these are simply dirty words devoid of any real meaning.
I humbly recommend you read "the People's History of the US" by Howard Zinn. People had to die so that we have the 8 hour day and 40 hour work week. Change comes from struggle not sitting on your ass wishfully thinking.
I'm saying socialism from above, from central states using a command economy, cannot work in the long run. Socialism also needs to eliminate power structures, from central governments to hierarchy in work environments. I'm open minded, so if I had to tag my beliefs, I just say libertarian socialist. There are many approaches to try and there is no reason one approach has to be used by every civilization, so long as they don't institute the power structures that lead them back to the mess we have now.
Forza Grecia!
The power elites get bailed out while a gun is pointed at the heads of the people? Anyone still in favor of globalized capital?
The Capitalists . And they own the US Government.
Looks more like the Chinese and Japanese at this point. Though they are "capitalists" too at this point I guess. :)
Confiscate the assets of the Bankers who took out the bad loans and the Bankers who know they were offering faulty instruements, Goldman Sachs.
Too bad we don't have a "Red Brigade" here in the US to put out a hit on Lloyd Blankfein, Jamie Dimon and the gang.
The problem is....the Red Brigade was very likely part of Operation Gladio and a CIA op. I doubt they would turn on their masters.
Since a general strike in the good ol U.S.A. won't just materialize, how about a, build-up to said event that has everyone who's mad as hell and can't take it any more putting a bumper sticker on their car that's inscribed with "General Strike? Count Me In." For more on this simple, easy, safe and doable approach to building solidarity among the 85% of the public who, as far as the powers that be are concerned, are completely expendable, please see yourstruly's 2:53 pm post ("Revolution Not Only Is Possible It's Doable") to Bill Quigley's March 7 article, "Time For A U.S. Revolution" - 15 Reasons".
OR, how about we all commit to using nothing but public transportation for at least 15 days a month.
And the bumper stickers will say, "this car operates 50% the time, reducing demand for foreign oil from the ground up"
As for the communist/ socialist, keep in mind while you can whine all you want you have the right to free speech here.
In China they figured out socialism doesn't work after 50 million plus were starved to death or just outrightly killed.
The key thing will be a return to REAL capitalism, no more CEO's hired by cooperate entities with 10,000 plus stock holders.
Sole proprietors ALL the way. We can build this from the ground up, support the Sole proprietors you like, ie the ones who don't enslave children then try to screw them out of wages.
That is the way, other wise we risk giving up our rights and ending up with Authoritarian Capitalism( like modern day China).
Real change will happen when each of us sees that random homeless person as a friend down on his luck. It has to happen from US, not some magic giant government.
What is REAL Capitalism? Is this the stuff Ron Paul calls for that ran The USA in the day of the Robber Barons, where Children worked in Factories, thousands of miners died to Black lung and mine explosions and the Work week was 70 hours?
Can you give examples of REAL Capitalism either extant in the world today or out of the past?
Not that "Real Capitalism" was any bed of roses, but now even that is unachievable. Huge amounts of capital are concentrated in a few very powerful hands. Capital now seeks the quickest and easiest profit, whether by exploiting the situation in countries where workers are desperate and have few rights or by setting up shell games and ponzi schemes. Usury is the norm. These piles of money know no national borders, have no sentimental attachments to country and could care less where they are invested. Disasters and war are welcome as opportunities for profiteering. Solid production of useful things by decently paid workers is "off the table" as Nancy Pelosi would say. The giant international corporations are ruthless in buying up patents and politicians. Huge armies, paid spies and hitmen enforce the hegemony of the giant corporations.
Ask any small entrepreneur or farmer how they do against the megacompanies and the banks' lending policies. The territory has been staked out and occupied. The rules are stacked. Sometimes even possibly well-meaning liberals set up Byzantine regulations that are impossible for small business, and unintentionally drive them out of business, whereas large companies with their lawyers and wealth are able to comply or evade the law. There are some niches open, like neighborhood Cupcake Cafes and small organic growers, but the energy, agribusiness, insurance, weapons, high tech and other large industries are controlled.
I don't know the answer going forward, but I do not think we can plan on going backwards to the time when capitalism was young and rough. Sometimes I get hope from other countries, like Greece, when they rise up against policies that impoverish the regular people to pay for the criminal excess of the financial sector. Or when students say "Fund Schools, Not War". That's the way it has to go, I think.
Joe
"REAL" capitalism?
what you are seeing - in all its disastrous and most far-reaching manifestations, including the totalitarianism that showed up in the "STATE capitalism" of the USSR or HITLER and Mussolini's fAscism
-- as different variations of the same thing
IS what you call "real capitalism"
THAT"S IT - THIS is ...."IT".
there's no OTHER "capitalism"
ONLY what you have already seen and will ALWAYS see.
robber barons system, neo-feudalist appearances, warmongering, encouraging or empowering "warlordism", -- whatever one might call it anywhere
THAT IS what capitalism IS.
the USA's VERSION is merely the most "sophisticated" SET of "rules and behavior and processes"
OF capitalism.
others are merely more "primitive" forms - and "less advanced"
but they all reflect the different facets of the SAME THING -- capitalism.
this is IT.
as Albert Einstein said:
"capitalism tends to accumulate wealth and power unto a few hands....wherever you look....workers who create wealth by their collective labor are denied the true value of their work -- this is accomplished by unconsciously making them comply with the rules and behaviors designed towards this end by capitalism....where their labor and its value is OWNED by the capitalists...I am convinced that the ROOT OF THE EVIL -- is capitalism".