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TechnoratiBALTIMORE - Undercover Maryland State Police officers repeatedly spied on peace activists and anti-death penalty groups in recent years and entered the names of some in a law-enforcement database of people thought to be terrorists or drug traffickers, newly released documents show.
The files, made public yesterday by the American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland, depict a pattern of infiltration of the activists' organizations in 2005 and 2006. The activists contend that the authorities were trying to determine whether they posed a security threat to the United States. But none of the 43 pages of summaries and computer logs - some with agents' names and whole paragraphs blacked out - mention criminal or even potentially criminal acts, the legal standard for initiating such surveillance.
State police officials said they did not curtail the protesters' freedoms.
The spying, detailed in logs of at least 288 hours of surveillance over a 14-month period, recalls similar infiltration by FBI agents of civil rights and anti-war groups decades ago, particularly under the administration of President Richard M. Nixon.
David Rocah, a staff attorney for the ACLU in Baltimore, said at a news conference yesterday that he found it "stupefying" that more than 30 years later, the government is still targeting people who do nothing more than express dissent.
"Everything noted in these logs is a lawful, First Amendment activity," Rocah said. "For undercover police officers to spend hundreds of hours entering information about lawful political protest activities into a criminal database is an unconscionable waste of taxpayer dollars and does nothing to make us safer from actual terrorists or drug dealers."
The ACLU obtained the documents from the state attorney general's office through a Maryland Public Information Act lawsuit.
Col. Terrence B. Sheridan, superintendent of the Maryland State Police, said in a statement yesterday that the department "does not inappropriately curtail the expression or demonstration of the civil liberties of protesters or organizations acting lawfully."
"No illegal actions by state police have ever been taken against any citizens or groups who have exercised their right to free speech and assembly in a lawful manner," Sheridan said. "Only when information regarding criminal activity is alleged will police continue to investigate leads to ensure the public safety."
Nothing in the documents indicates criminal activity or intent on the part of the protesters, ACLU officials said.
Nonetheless, the state police's Homeland Security and Intelligence Division sent covert agents to infiltrate the Baltimore Pledge of Resistance, a peace group; the Baltimore Coalition Against the Death Penalty; and the Committee to Save Vernon Evans, a death row inmate.
Using a fake e-mail address and an alias, an undercover agent joined the e-mail list of the death penalty group, the documents say. Agents also monitored the group's organizational meetings, public forums and events in churches, as well as rallies on Lawyers Mall in Annapolis and in Baltimore outside the Maryland Correctional Adjustment Center, known as "SuperMax."
Most of the spies' reports were innocuous. After an Aug. 24, 2005, gathering of the Evans group, an undercover officer wrote in a log: "The meeting concluded with members talking about trying to get the man running for Baltimore County State's Attorney to commit to his plans regarding the death penalty in the county."
Baltimore County was responsible for more capital punishment cases than any other Maryland jurisdiction at the time.
Another entry about the Evans group revealed that agents had spent 50 hours of "investigative time" shadowing its members in March, April and May 2005. The entry mentioned that a May 25, 2005, meeting of the group was attended by Max Obuszewski, a former Peace Corps member and longtime activist who moved to Baltimore in 1983, and Terry Fitzgerald, who heads the anti-death penalty coalition and established the Evans group.
Both attended yesterday's news conference.
State police appeared to have been specifically tracking Obuszewski's activities. His name, the documents show, was entered into the Washington/Baltimore High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area database, even though there was "not a scintilla of evidence" that he deserved to be listed, said Rocah, the ACLU attorney.
"Mr. Obuszewski has devoted his entire life to peace," Rocah said. "If there is anyone in the world who is further from a terrorist, it is hard for me to imagine."
Obuszewski agreed. "You cannot get more insulting than to call me a terrorist," he said. Besides, he went on, the groups he belongs to hold open meetings and publicize their schedules. "Why would someone come to those meetings and pretend to be someone else? Why are government agencies targeting pacifists?"
One reason, he theorized, is that local police agencies need funds from the federal government, and surveillance of supposed "terrorists" might be a good way to keep getting the money. No matter the reason, the news that the Bush administration keeps about 1 million names on a terrorist watch-list is disheartening, Obuszewski said, since so many people cannot possibly warrant inclusion.
In February 2006, the national ACLU and its affiliates filed multiple federal Freedom of Information requests seeking records of Pentagon surveillance of anti-war groups around the country. Using information from a secret Pentagon database, NBC News reported that a unit of the Department of Defense had been accumulating intelligence about domestic organizations and their protest activities as part of a mission to track "potential terrorist threats."
"It serves no security purpose to infiltrate peaceful groups," said Michael German, a former FBI agent who specialized in counter-terrorism and who joined the ACLU two years ago as policy counsel in its Washington legislative office. "It completely misuses law enforcement resources."
Since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, German said, the government has "actively encouraged" local police agencies to become intelligence gatherers and to compile information that does not necessarily have a connection to criminal activity.
Despite the fact that the Maryland infiltrators' reports consistently said the activists acted lawfully, agents continued to recommend that the spying continue. Reports of the surveillance were sent to at least seven federal, state and local law enforcement agencies, including the National Security Agency, the police departments of Baltimore, Baltimore County, Annapolis and Anne Arundel County, and the state General Services police.
The documents released yesterday show the kind of information they were trading. Among other things, Obuszewski and fellow activists arranged a meeting with then-Rep. Benjamin L. Cardin in 2005 in which they asked him to support a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq.
Susan Goering, executive director of the ACLU of Maryland, said she feared that the documents released so far "may be only the tip of the proverbial iceberg."
In a letter sent yesterday to Gov. Martin O'Malley, Goering wrote that the state police had "recorded extensive information about specific individuals and groups, including describing their political outlook, whether they were articulate, what political activities they are engaged in, and attended private planning meetings in a covert capacity."
The only potentially unlawful activity mentioned anywhere in the documents, she said, were two instances of nonviolent civil disobedience. In one, activists refused to leave a guard station during a protest at the National Security Agency after bringing cookies and drinks for the guards, and in the other, they hatched a plan to place photographs of soldiers who died in Iraq on the fence surrounding the White House.
"Maryland residents should feel free to join a peaceful protest without fear that their names will wind up in police files," Goering wrote. "They should feel free to engage in nonviolent dissent without fear of being branded as 'terrorists' or 'security threat groups' in shared law-enforcement databases."
Copyright © 2008, The Baltimore Sun
78 Comments so far
Show AllDo you care passionately enough about any issue to attend a public meeting? Have you ever taken part in a meeting where public protests may be planned?
Check this link for more!
http://www.asianweek.com/2008/07/21/big-brother-in-maryland/
loganseixx - McCain is worse.
"The question is not 'Am I paranoid?'. The question is 'Am I paranoid enough?'"
ET TU?
"ROME (AFP) - Italian prosecutors have accused two of the country's top firms, Telecom Italia and its former leading shareholder Pirelli, of lack of oversight in connection with a huge spy scandal, press reports said Saturday."
ILLEGALITIES BY GOVERNMENT AGENCIES
Here in the USA people spying on people...police breaking the law and lying...just what law is it that you think they are breaking? Aren't the Government and its agents the law or above the law, beyond the law or some such? Never fear they are there to keep you SAFE...you want to be safe don't you? As for the individual officers well hey, they are just following...orders? And these lists you speak of.... hey, you've been recognized as part of a group...you are somebody, you may even be important. See your life is getting better all the time... safe and important,
WOW. Now there, don't you feel better and maybe even a little silly for being so scared, and little and insignificant?
Hey, there are some Veterans (who are probably on some lists too) going to Rep. Conyers office to ask that he does something with Rep Kucinich's
Impeachment Proposals this coming week. They requested that "WE THE PEOPLE" (definitely a subversive bunch) call or write or stop in with our Reps, Congressmen and ask them to mention what a good idea this is. Now this might mean getting involved and/or put on a list...but, hey remember we are safe and important and we have all those Agents out in the front lines keeping us so. Our part in all this is what we choose, at least for now.
The list of offenses and usurpations grows daily. Yet, the Democrats in Congress, with only a few honorable exceptions, have failed to challenge the Bush administration on anything at all, much less pursue impeachment, the Constitutional remedy. We need a real opposition party. Vote Green in November: Cynthia McKinney for President. 5% for McKinney will do more for America than 70% for Obama.
Green Party platform: http://www.gp.org/platform.shtml
McKinney website: www.runcynthiarun.org
John M. Wages, Jr.
US House Candidate, MS-01
www.VoteJohnWages.com
The powers that be are the paranoid ones, expressing the paranoia over security to ridiculous levels once again. Spy on everyone, everyone is a potential enemy.
We never learn from history. We are doomed to repeat it. Wave upon wave of progress followed by regress. In the end, everything remains the same because, I believe, the progressives of society have to silence themselves, not to stick their heads up, or become silenced through persecution. We are lucky that we can still exchange views on this site. But then again, maybe they allow this one to operate so that they can track us all in the one convenient place.
A friend mine says, use cash, buy ammo while you still can. I say, don't state any real plans on here. They monitor here and everywhere only because they can, it is not from any real need.
Governments do have real enemies, external and internal. Internally, it is always the people it supposedly serves, and that, my friends, goes both ways.
Truly and ultimately, in every way imaginable, they serve at the people's pleasure. One day, the people will say "enough is enough" and then revolution, bloodbath, wasted lives and effort to re-capture the progress we once knew and had prior, will be seized upon again, to throw off this latest group of kings (leaches) at the top tier and re-establishing proper order. It might not happen tomorrow, or next year. It may take decades, or lifetimes, but the people have the power to say "enough" if it wants to.
This has been repeated throughout history over and over. It is needed again to re-establish the US Constitution, arguably one the the greatest documents ever conceived by humankind.
Bad things are allowed to happen when good people do nothing.
Just one thing to add...
COINTELPRO.
The money..it always comes down to the money. I find it perfectly plausible that in order to "create jobs" and maintain staff, the Balitomore Police in doing their level best to fight "terror" found it quite easy to apply and justify these funds. The article mentioned those in the know, the actual teams, found nothing out of place regarding these "groups", however, they continued to apply and recieve the funding. Cushy job if one can get it.
Mr. Cheney, sitting alone in his room, scared to death he himself was "exposed" to a noxious agent undoubtably thought the world was out to get him...If the administration thinks nothing of destroying the entire justice department does one honestly think they care about it's citizens? (Justice Department demise/spying on the innocent - chicken or the egg?) This PR simply strengthens their needs for more war/pillage and theft in the name of terror.
It will one day be reported these fine soldiers on the streets of America thwarted the last gtreat attempt to destroy America. "A job well done" w/accomidations for all. At last we have the evidence needed to overthrow Russia or any country we desire...straight from the mouths of agents sitting in front of a Peace Rally in Balitmore.
Till I have problems at the border, or at an airport. I guess I haven't done enough for Peace. I pray for a sea change this fall. But I'm not holding my breath. I hope there is not another false flag this fall. Because it means more death and pain. But if it does happen, I believe it may not go the way the powers that be hope things would afterward. Too many Americans are silently so pissed at their government, that millions may just lose their minds with anger and fear. A mob is a terrible force. But peaceful means and lawful regress has been handcuffed. If impeachment had happened by now, the pressure would be off, but its just building, looking for release...
when you look at the national security patriot laws we have now we are as under a legal fascism as Germany ever had....
We are lucky so far as Pete Seeger said when they asked him if he was scared he would be jailed forever for telling the McCarthy HUAC boys that his believes were not the business of government, Pete said "no I wasn't concerned about that, I never thought that the government would go in for that kind of thing"
Pete is an army vet too.
McCain/Romney say:
"Help us prevent terrorism, know where your children are and if they're using drugs, get your microchip today. It's invisible, it's painless and it's the law".
dream warrior at 1:04, thanks for the YouTube link. I watched it. While your quote is accurate I question its intent given the context of Obama's encouraging of teachers, mentors, and volunteers in civilian service in this speech. By itself, you're correct, the statement is chilling.
In his remarks on the day of the recent congressional defeat of the Constitution, Senator Feingold lamented its defeat, of course, but he also strongly endorsed Senator Obama who has a solid constitutional law background. I watched the interview. Feingold stated that he trusts Obama to make make the corrections to this wretched FISA bill. McBush will not.
The agents of the Dept of Homeland Security who monitor this website and these posts, what are you thinking? Do you ever offer posts to join in the discussion?
You have to love the cops' self-defense: Hey, we didn't interfere with them or anything. Completely missing the point of course, the radical and fascist invasion of privacy. Why don't the peace people start spying on cops' meetings---you know, donut shops, gyms, hookers' dens, and see what kinds of security threats go on there?
Nothing new. Years ago 1969 in Reading MA my ex husband was pretending to be with the ABM antimissile gorup while reporting back to a mysterious voice on the telephone.
Stop and think a moment. If you were a cop, which would you rather keep under surveillance, a pacifist group that poses no threat to the country or a real terrorist group who might kill you if they discover who you are? The choice is easy, so of course they're going to continue this surveillance and avoid the real threats. They're not dumb.
OBAMA may well lose the Presidency because of his FISA vote.
Haven't you noticed a bit of deflation? The fire gone from the Obama campaign? Sure, money's coming in, but the flow has slowed a bit, hasn't it? All that support he was getting from folks like us is now gone. In other words, all the support from people on this site who REALLY DO PAY ATTENTION, folks who will eagerly voice their heartfelt views and can move and influence many (less aware) others — all that support and money, all that magic of a campaign that was just going to be HONEST and bring us out of these dark ages with a clarity of vision that says NO NO NO to the destruction of the constitution, NO NO NO to the old ways of political maneuvering — NO NO NO to the INSANITY of the past 7 years — all that Magic and honesty and hope and it's all NOW GONE! Gone with one fatal, assinine vote. And my friends, make no mistake, it is gone for good. Why? Because the second Obama cast that vote in favor of the FISA bill he ceased to be a legitemate public servant. By voting to end the 4th amendment, he is now necessarily, by-definition, part of and and accomplice to the crimes of the very outlaw regime that we must today throw off if we are to survive as a Democracy. Obama has now thrown in with the bandits who would steal many more rights from us if –god forbid– there were another attack on American soil. How can folks like us be excited anymore about this campaign? We can't, quite simply. It is basically over for us. There are just some things ONE CANNOT COMPROMISE. And everyone who really knows what is going on understands what I am talking about.
So while the Obama campaign has outraised the McCain campaign this past month, the Republican Party is still in a stronger financial position overall. What do you suppose is the reason? I say it is the FISA vote. What Obama failed to understand is that the magical internet money machine that he had tapped into –that seemingly endless flow of small contributions from small donors that led him to forego public financing — was a collective THANK YOU for finally saying the things that needed to be said. ALL that energy and enthusiasm and the money that went with it was for what WE THOUGHT was going to be Obama's heroic efforts to filibuster the FISA bill. Now I watch sadly as the MAGIC of Barack Obama just fades into our memories, as slowly but surely, one by one, we disengage from him and write him off as 'just like the rest of em'. Oh, Obama may be able to woo a certian number of less-aware voters and get them to cough up a contribution or two with a good speech here and there. But I predict the Automatic Money Machine is no longer going to run as well as it did. I also predict that he won't fill that stadium. That's what happens when you step on the rights of true patriots for some stupid triangulation/election stategy, that will NEVER win in the end. Indeed, I beleive that in this vote, we have just witnessed the blunder that may well cost Obama the presidency….
more @ http://hatingitmagazine.com
Sysyphus, they want us they got us already. You live in fear, of what? Thay have Google maps too. The shit I say when I call or email or have a meeting with a Congressperson, Fuck Them. I will live my life without fear of those pigs, they want to be voyeurs let them. How are YOU or I going to stop them?? Screw them ,live your life and do NOT waste any time worrying about the Nazi's in Black, life's too short.
This sort of police spying is probably pervasive, especially with the whole Department of Homeland Security funding.
At our weekly protest corner, where regular antiwar demonstrations have been going on for more than four years, a panoramic street camera was installed, ostensibly to catch people driving through red lights. However, there are similar busy intersections along the way, and no cameras were installed.
An antiwar protester out here was accused by the FBI of burning Humvees. The FBI searched the home where he lived with other people and turned the place over. One FBI agent spent the time reading a young woman's personal journal, for instance. The protester was eventually exonerated.
During the Democratic National Convetion of 2000 in Los Angeles, undercover LA sheriffs rode with a Critical Mass bike ride protesters. The LAPD arrested 73 bicyclists en masse, all of whom were exonerated years later.
At one demonstration down here, a policeman ostensibly there to oversee safety was openly snapping photos of the demonstrators. Quite frankly, the police aren't necessary at all for public safety at these Constitutionally protected gatherings, but that's the excuse. And the idea of getting permits to march is rather lame if you supposedly have freedom of assembly as an inalienable right.
The police aren't really civic organizations any more. A good book to read is "Lockdown America" by Christian Parenti for an overview of how SWAT training has militarized the police, as well as how the United States has come to be No. 1 in imprisoning its own people.
I suppose the surveillance keeps some people away from publicly demonstrating, but it seems more like apathy and hopelessness, as well as working longer so as to not be laid off, are some of the reasons.
Nixon is reported to have said during the Vietnam War days, "Let them protest all they want, so long as they pay their taxes." In 2008, it's a less permissive approach, with protest cages, hearding and infiltration.
I can only hope that nationwide, people will look into ways of defunding their local police forces. The town I live in has too many of them, and they're making $60k+ per year. They are always on the make for public cash, though. I just don't think it's worth paying for the useful role of the police if they show such contempt for people and the Constitution.
In the mean time, people need to come out in force anyway. The police are just dumb enough to think that they are paid to be some counter-revolutionary force. They are kind of a useless distraction. We've got important work to do in building a voice for change.
On a Side-note...
I'm I paranoid if I think that Wal-mart is tracking me (us) if I pay in cash and they ask for a zip code?
Would I be arrested for refusing to give this info... or just refused the ability to buy from them?
What if I gave a false zip code?
What about and out of state zip code?
What if it was just outside the local area, but still in the same city?
Is it just to see where people who use the store are coming from for marketing purposes? The requests to participate in surveys not enough?
To make this clear, I did not pay with a credit/debit card, they where not making sure I was the correct holder of such a card. I did not write a check and there we not varifing my address for that purpose. I paid in cash.
Yes fear is baaaaaaaaaaaad.
Now I don't feel so alone...
I have been documenting what they do to me for a very long time.
"Forgive them, for they know not what they do"
Grant: very nice, but I have a question. Is 'Watanuki" a name, or is it just an exclamation, or maybe an alternative to war?
bornfreeman: immunity for 4th Amendment breakers results from deciding that firing them (let alone prosecuting them)was too severe. So they invented the so-called "exclusionary rule" as a sufficient mythical ritual. They exclude the evidence so they can tar the judicial system.
Yay Smendler.
Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich DO strike terror in their hearts, and they think they are themselves all that matters.
Sisyfus: I don't understand biwee either, but I do understand that they're sure your letter breaks the law by advocating violence. I wanna be a little more direct and formally go on the record as being an enemy of this administration. FTITATTB. Wait, I need more vowels. FTAITATIB. Oh well.
The truth is that all they do is interact in what they think is a positive way between and among themselves -- a rapidly stagnating pond of excrement. Maybe if we FTAITATIB enough they will get an infection and perish, painfully. They will anyway, no matter what we do. Constipation is not good for civilisation.
nfhill July 19th, 2008 12:24 am
Workreno, can you document Obama calling for such a force? Please show me a link to an official copy of any such statement. I think the rumor of his stating such a thing is part of a disinformation campaign.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2p6867_pw
if you dont want to watch the entire clip thats just over 26 mins long... fast forward to about 15 mins and the quote exactly is found at 16:45
and if you are too lazy to go to view the speech he recently gave in colorado springs... here's what he says...
We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.
and again... i stated this in another thread... this right there.... sent a large chill down my back... anyone else know why this idea is so terrifying?
anyone?
bueller?
Hollowpoint: do any of you bloggers even give a care if your on camera or not?
Sure, I care, Hollowpoint. Everybody knows the camera adds 15 pounds to your weight. Plus my grey roots are starting to grow back.
Workreno, can you document Obama calling for such a force? Please show me a link to an official copy of any such statement. I think the rumor of his stating such a thing is part of a disinformation campaign.
An eerie, calming, cloud of dread. We don't, but we do, know what's coming. Oppressors lack imagination, and follow footsteps left by their predecessors. We read various histories and they blend into today's news.
I wish you all well.
The so called conservative-some called neo cons, George Bush supporters or hangers-on, gave him their support, as was given to Nixon,Reagan and Bush I (Clinton won over a small fraction of these, or catered to their needs when he could)because they are and were then also, afraid of:
Communist 'supporters'
Vietnam war protesters,
Clean air advocates and associated tree huggers,
environmental protection advocates,
folks opposed to nuclear power,
'peaceniks' or those perceived as pacifists,
concerned citizens for worker safety (like in the mines),
supporters of mass transit,
advocates of solar energy,
Get the idea? We're known as progressives and if I could make my list long enough, because there are enough 'advocates' of some issue out there, we would be a vast, mobile majority if we all acted together.
Which is why the police work so hard to fractionalize the whole lot whenever they can.
But back to my point, the opposition, those in favor of the elite, militarization freaks, have thrown their lot with Bush cronies. These hangers-on, who love being near the center of things, are regretting their move as they get stopped at airports or find themselves out of favor at the royal court. The court circles are growing every more narrow and are now moving in to include only the police and military overlords.
You can bet that these protesters names have been put on some sort of list that would make it so they can't vote in the future.
It's great to live in a free country or at least I think it would be.
Why Do They Rub Shit On Police Cars?
soblindpeoplecahatethemtoo
P ussy
O fficers
L earning
I ntensive
C itation
E nforcement
Oh my, it's 4:20, wanna hit officer? This hits for you CD.
Samson -
What the watchers absolutely hate is for someone wearing painter outfit, carrying a ladder and loosely covered can(s) of paint to walk from behind and 'accidentally' spill paint on the windshield. When it happens more than once and they can't prove intent on the 'clumsy' worker, sometimes, they understand, kinda.
Arvy - Yes
---"Despite the fact that the Maryland infiltrators' reports consistently said the activists acted lawfully, agents continued to recommend that the spying continue."-------
It seems to me, that the only reason the government agents took this approach to the peace activists was because the government wants to keep tabs on anyone who does not agree with its policies, which makes this country we live in, far from being a Democracy.
To my fellow contributers, a penny for your thoughts and thank you,
I've read most of the entries above me. Some, like the letter from "biwee" at 7-8--08 230pm I do not understand. I literally do not understand what is being communicated.
I refused to contribute to the ACLU this year due to being out of work, having used up my savings, in poor health and I do not forsee any future improvements in my situation. The caller from the ACLU donor platoon three months ago was not calling from one of those high pressure tele-advertizer type "boiler rooms" but rather sounded like a real, conscientious and conscious guy calling from his home in behalf of an organization he cared for. I liked him. But I denied sending my usual $50.00.
My take on the emotional tenor of the letters written in rsponse to the article by Nick Madigan is that most people are AFRAID - AFRAID - AFRAID-. SO MUCH FEAR of being identified by the "authorities" for what you feel and believe to be right.
I urge all of you to do what I have been doing for three years now. Write a "CONFESSIONAL LETTER" to the FBI and the CIA explaining your concerns about yourself. Confess to having uncontrollable fantasies of seeing Dick Cheney standing by the road side with a gas container in his hand, thumbing for a ride to the nearest gas station and instead of stopping to help him, in your fantasy, you purposefully run him over and feel great joy in seeing his blood and a piece of his left hand splatter over your windshield. Or that you have uncontrollable fantacies of watching TV and seeing a demonstration in front of the White House that goes out of control and the demonstrators, after being brutalized by the constabulary, break through the police lines, enter the sacred halls of the White House and drag George Bush outside where they quickly castrate him, hang him and disemowel him on the pristine, white, steps of the holy White House. You wish that you did not have these thoughts but each day the information you see on Fox News, the news to be trusted, this information seems to incite these thoughts unbidden by you. Ask for their advice. Ask if you should go to jail for having these fantacies.
If the CIA/FBI and other Federal fascistic departments want to get the s--t on you, then load them up. Don't make them hunt for it, load them up with the crap they seek and let them sink into insignificance from the weight of the dross that they want. For God's sake help these poor devils. That is how I look at it.
The civil service wardens of our prison are more easily influenced than our congression members because they have lower maintenance needs.
Sisyphus
Blowback has begun! These poor "revolutionaries" out in Maryland really got what they deserve from the State Police on this one. Gee, I guess these Quakers and all are such a big threat that we have to throw more finite law enforcement resources at them! Meanwhile, we seem incapable of winning a war that the people that they are spying on want to end. So by this I guess we are to believe that the state police, FBI, and others see a STOPPAGE of the war as a bigger threat than the CONTINUANCE of the war. Makes you wonder whose side they are really on--War Party is my guess. Problem is that law enforcement must choose between defending the War on Terrorism--made up by politicians--and real crime, including the criminals who happen to be terrorists who, believe it, are not active in peace groups!
angel2shine said: "I'm a granny, too old to mention, natural born citizen, believing that I serve my God to point out the errors of war, but willing to be that I'm also on a terriorist list. I remember McCarthyism, I was a communist on that list."
I've got a feeling that once you're on the list, you're always on the list. It'll be that way until the listmakers start facing serious jail time rather than implicit 'attaboys' from our citizens on the right.
Thank God for the ACLU.
Seems to me that we need an organization devoted to protecting the American Citizen from its government.
Years ago I sent a letter with $100.00 check for a protest bus trip to DC, to an internet organizer. the letter never arrived to the organizer, I got it back too late for the bus trip, OPENED! Check still in it.
Think tha we all arn't being spyied on.
I'm a granny, too old to mention, natural born citizen, believing that I serve my God to point out the errors of war, but willing to be that I'm also on a terriorist list.
I remember McCarthyism, I was a communist on that list.
I feel safer knowing someone is protecting us from these peacemongers.
maybe we should ask the govt to clearly define what THEY believe the word terrorist means to them... that way at least we'll have an opportunity to know if we're all law breakers or not?
because if the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorist Prevention Act of 2007 passes through the senate... it will be legal for any law official to arrest anyone based on any kind of inference of wrong doing by our govt. If these govt thugs have their way, people like ron paul and denis kucinich will be labeled a terrorist.
and whats so scary is how LITTLE this bill… thats about to get passed… is NOT being talked about by ANYONE!!! not even the liberal media is touching this bad boy!
***HR 1955 Oct 23, 2007 5:06 PM Final Vote (House) Passed 404-6, 22 not voting (2/3 required)
currently this bill is sitting in the senate (S 1959)
**** Last Action: Oct 24, 2007: Received in the Senate and Read twice and referred to the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
maybe the folks that are trying to get S. 576: Restoring the Constitution Act of 2007 will get something accomplished... who knows... (especially since it seems nothing is happening with this particular bill)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-576
but either way... since bush and friends have come into power (appointed by our "esteemed" supreme court in 2000) we've all be f***ed we just didnt realize it until 2006 when our democratic congress was voted in to affect change... and since then... all we've gotten is a bunch of finger pointing and FISA passing (along with other bills that strip us all of our rights and freedoms)
in the declaration of independence… is states:
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security
if this administration and congress doesn't fall into this realm… then I don't know what does… and both sides of the isle are doing a fine job of conveniently forgetting exactly what they were elected (well some where elected) into office to do…
but then again... how do you go about getting something like this acocmplished with a govt that has entrenched themselves in the entire worlds psyche as here to stay?
so does this mean then that we try our best to curtail as much of their power mad quest as possible and suffer the rest... or should we all just bend over and kiss our liberties goodbye?
if this bill passes.... just mentioning the declaration of independence (much less talking about peace or protesting the death penalty) will have ppl being labeled a terrorist... isnt that a hoot... our tax dollars at work here folks! i mean seriously… we're PAYING them to do this to us!!! is it just me or is this totally insane?
protest our corrupt... immoral and criminal govt... stay home on 9/11!!!
Just like 1968!! If you are for peace (imagine that!) you get the old COINTELPRO treatment. Its second nature for law enforcement to react in this way and that great Marylander Spiro Agnew would be proud.
again, why is the Pentagon and Dept of Defense involved in internal surveillance. I believe that is outside their scope of duties and laws against it, but of course, there are lots of laws that continually get trashed by this government these days.
This does not surprize me, before the US provided the world its "Shock and Awe" attack on Iraq, in Denver, at Civic Center Park, there was an overnight Protest about the impending War and about 20 of us from various peace groups came to hold an overnight vigil, at about 12:30am Denver Police came and told us we could not stay in the Park but must leave to the sidewalk outside of the Park, they left, then several Black SUV's drove through, Parked a fellow or two got out took pictures of the members of the group and the signs that remained. I knew then that the days of absolute freedom of expression was over in this country, and it would only get worse. Well, now after the FISA bill another proof is laid before my doorstep, Big Brother is alive and well in the Heartland!!! Sad and a little terrifying at the same time!!!
And lets not forget about Obomba's speech in Colorado Springs earlier this month where he called for a "Civilian Natural Security Force" larger than the COMBINED Military Forces of the U.S.
Oh yipee a Hitler Youth group in our own back yard.
Comply or Resist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M37bsoRYV8
There are some nice Trilateralist quotes in this 10 min. clip
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING...
LET'S KEEP HIM ENTERTAINED
Hollow point said: "do any of you bloggers even give a care if your on camera or not?"
It's not the opinion of the spyee that matters. Its the opinion of the spyer. Once recorded, information is there and can be used at the leisure of the holder of that information for whatever purposes, fair or foul.
Hasn't the history of FOX news taught you anything?
They have had 7 years under WAR to build their natzi,stasi police spy network.
MILLIONS OF AMERICANS SPYING ON MILLIONS OF AMERICANS.
Short of ending they WAR, taking immunity away from the 4th amendment law breakers, and locking people up for warrant less spying at the community level these bastards are here to stay.
Its terrorist Gang Stalking, its been growing in America for the last 15 years. And the WAR has almost made it justifiable by looking for terrorists.
As long as law enforcement uses the word terrorist in the same sentence as surveillance they are golden.
The Bush/Cheney Royal Imperial Dictatorship has done its damage using the DHS, FBI and CIA. They have grown and become very powerful. Cross this bunch is dangerous.
One would think that they care not about constitutional rights.
Our government is allowing the torture of innocent Americans by sanctioning slander and warrant less surveillance.
Its torture when they go out of there way to let you know they are following you 24/7.
Trust me , 17 months and still counting.It will screw you up, ruin your focus, steal your serenity and sense of safety and leave you feeling alone and helpless.AFRAID to leave your home.
That's torture, that's what my community has done to me. I am an innocent American and have no due process of law against these bastards because they operate covertly, using gang stalking,natzi,stasi tactics.
Since we are at WAR, are these not WAR crimes.
Saying that people are enemy's of our country, slander, surveillance.
IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY, DID NOT HITLER USE THESE VERY SAME TACTICS TO GAIN CONTROL OF HIS COUNTRY, CONQUER EUROPE AND MURDER 5 MILLION JEWS.
HAVE WE FORGOTTEN THE HOLOCAUST ??????????
WHO ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS IF 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB????
BORNFREEMEN
I agree. It's totally whack man. Go peace! Now can I just get all of your political affiliations, and, hey, anyone thinkin' about goin' to protest soon? I'd be so down for that. Just give me all the details.
do any of you bloggers even give a care if your on camera or not?
http://www.infowars.com/?p=3437
I just read this regarding the Madrid train bombings once attributed to Al Qaeda.
The Spanish Supreme court has overturned a number of convictionns against what was labled as "Al Qaeda linked terrorists".
Indeed the only convictions to stand right now are of Government informants involved in the bombing.
In other words, this once again more then likely a black ops event.
Prediceted, expected and now confirmed: These powers will be used against Americans who opposed the government in any way. Welcome to authoritarianism. If you have nothing to hide you won't mind that camera in your living room.
Prediceted, expected and now confirmed: These powers will be used against Americans who opposed the government in any way. Welcome to authoritarianism. If you have nothing to hide you won't mind that camera in y
so this then is a universal-logic, when applied by intelligence agencies to spy on americans: if you organize for peace you are a potential terrorist ("hey", they say, "we'll just use state police because it gets around the constitution's ban on fedspying on americans, and they can then forward the info to us, heh.") is it? well do they monitor common dreams via the same logic? here, they can find a conspiracy of peace and wellbeing among airheaded internet-oddtypes basically showing a normal crossection of america that would indeed make their job cushhhhh and keep fed budget-grants flowing. and it gets the site more site hits too (the spys have to hit it).. and we have the chance to legally and directly say: "buttheads, find real terrorists to spy on pls, if there are any in our neighborhoods, which there arent", directly to them.. and they would feel like their operation had been compromised and make more files on us all, until finally everyone in america could make a nice living working for the intelligence community, spying in comfort on each other in.. well.. utopia. heil!
Thank you Quaker Dave.
Read about operation Gladio. A Cia\italian joint effort in Italy during the 60's and 70's.
This involved elements in the Government planting bombs staging kidnappings and committing assassinations in order to blame it on the Red brigades and communists.
Alexander haig is alleged to have sat in their meetings and helped plan such events, the group committing the crimes all fascists left over from Mussolinis Government.
The wonder is not that Governments are the one behind most of the terrorism we see in the world today , but that people will STILL claim that any that believe such are somehow looney.
This is why the FISA laws are so important. The executive branch of government is only one third of the power in Washington for precisely the reason that it can be bent to political purposes (and, as Scott McClellan recently pointed out, HAS been under the Bush administration). FISA ensures that a neutral, unelected THIRD branch of government be consulted before Americans are spied upon.
And both Republicans and Democrats have just pee'd on that provision. SHAME ON THEM BOTH!!
Infiltrating peace groups sounds like the cushy job I'd like to have!
Where do I sign up?
Paul K so right about unmarked cars. They had these dumbass rearview mirrors, on the sides of the car, the circle inside a circle magnification thing, no chrome. When we had our SDS meetings, Quaker Dave, it was at a Friend's Meeting House still around the way. Little Brother, always the shoes. Not just because they were wingtips[my da wore them until his death]but where do you think the slang, 'Gumshoe' came from? nice and quiet, actually squeaky.
Cold war shit, I hated that. We all know that duck and cover is the sure fire way to protect yourself from an A-Bomb!
Like QuakerDave says, maybe a couple of Maryland State Cops will be having a beer after work one night with Fox on the TV, and having listened to their assigned peace group for weeks and weeks will suddenly see through the Fox bomb, bomb, bomb propaganda.
"Only when information regarding criminal activity is alleged will police continue to investigate leads to ensure the public safety."
I have information that the Maryland state police are engaging in criminal activity. Now go stand in front of the mirror for a while.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Rep. John Lewis of Atlanta says a mix up on a terrorist watch list is still wreaking havoc on his air travel five years after the problem arose.
The 11-term Democratic congressman wrote to the House Homeland Security Committee this week that he's still subjected to repeated airport searches and required to present multiple forms of identification. The problem persists even though Homeland Security recently gave him a letter to show airlines that was supposed to clear things up.
If it's still happening to a congressman, he wrote, ``you can only imagine what the average American suffers.''
And I'll bet he really 'feels' our pain, damn Sadist-In-Chief!
This is nothing new and goes back to the founding of the country. Jefferson talked about the people getting rid of the government when it is no longer responsive to popular will. This is why. Centralized power, private or governmental, tries to hold onto power and to block any fundamental change. We shouldn't expect anything else. I've always gone into activist groups, especially those with a radical bent to them, knowing that in all likelihood someone is there spying.
Howard Zinn wrote about how activists in the 1960's broke into the FBI's office and stole some files. Turns out that not only were they actively involved with murder and endless constitutional offenses (worse than what Nixon was tried for against the other elite party here) against innocent civilians but the surveillance was widespread. The FBI at the time, and I'm sure it hasn't changed, spent more money on political monitoring and intimidation than anything else. A small fraction was done against rightist groups but the majority was against groups on the left. It was revealed in the 1970's that the CIA had been extensively involved with domestic propaganda as well, paying of at least 400 journalists to spread government propaganda.
If the left, especially the pacifist left, is so irrational and loony then why should the elites in government worry? They worry because they can't logically refute most of what is said and so they have to expend constant and endless energy on propaganda and infiltration to hold onto power.
If anyone wants a good idea on the elite mindset, which was on full display in the "other" party during the primaries (remember when countless Democrats talked about the "Super Delegets" being there to make sure the "right" choices were made? Think of what they were really saying), here's the Trilateral Commission's (Zbigniew Brzezinski , one of Obama's advisors, someone Obama said he has learned a great deal from, was one of the founders of the TLC by the way) 1975 report "The Crisis of Democracy". In it they state how participatory government was in excess and that elites had to regain control from basically the general public, which is us:
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1442950
The crisis of democracy was first publicly outlined in a book-length report entitled (conveniently) The Crisis of Democracy written by Michel Crozier, Samuel Huntington, and Joji Watanuki in 1975. The title of the original, commisioned report was Report on the Governability of Democracies to the Trilateral Commission. The "problem" thus illuminated is how an "excess of democracy" can negatively impact the rightful government of industrialized societies by and for the wealthy.
According to the report, a crisis of democracy can occur when the populace becomes too well-informed about the true goals and motivations of its rulers and begins to demand that those in power shift their focus from self-aggrandizement to providing for the people's common needs.
We Quakers are kinda into peace, as the FBI already knows.
They are welcome to come to Meeting any time. They might learn something. Like peace.
Samson, "The old saying from the sixties that I know is that you can always spot the FBI agent because he's the one trying to incite people to do something illegal."
Yep. At some green party meetings one agent was trying to incite people to go out and burn SUV's and break stuff.
Gee - wonder how the "terrorist watch list" now contains nearly half-a-million Americans...
"One of them (names on the TWL) is that of former Assistant US Attorney General Jim Robinson, whose top security clearances are current. Every time Mr. Robinson flies away on business, he is delayed by a totally incompetent "terrorist" protection racket that cannot tell a person named Jim Robinson, who served in the highest echelons of the US government, from a Muslim terrorist." (Paul Craig Roberts.)
At the risk of becoming repetitious, it is important to understand that capitalist establishment priorities have undergone a significant shift since the dissolution of the "evil empire" and its "commie threat" to their peace of mind and imperial ambitions.
The potential for civil unrest and popular rebellion have always occupied a prominent place on their "worry list", but it has moved much nearer to the top of the scale as their various class warfare strategies have become more blatant in recent times.
The old saying from the sixties that I know is that you can always spot the FBI agent because he's the one trying to incite people to do something illegal.
Yeah,
I grew up with cold War spying goin on all around me...
After the cold War , the spying didn't stop it just had to increase it's targets to the point where they are so overloaded with extraneous info that it is all so secret that They aren't even allowed to see it.
In the old days at least you could face them...now like always if you can't stop them just watch them do their thing till they get exhausted and give up.
Just remember they are looking for threats to them so don't cop an attitude and you will get through many a jams in the works.
Peace and Love is what I Dig.
"Violence can not tolerate the presence of non-violence."---Rene Girard
An avid policy of violence such as in this administration will find an excuse to outlaw any peaceful organization.
In the Sixties, the joke was that you could always pick out the FBI infiltrators because they wore wing-tips.
It's an old, but sad and exasperating, story-- undercover cops and agents harassing and busting on bona-fide peace organizations.
"Fahrenheit 9/11" featured some typical examples of this. It's really an perpetuation of the police-state tactics consistently resorted to by government to repress dissent; whether The Enemy Within are fifth-columnists, Red anarchists, Nazi saboteurs, Japanese spies, Communist fellow-travelers, or Terrorists, one can always count on undercover goons and pigs conducting their perpetual witch-hunts and Inquisitions, and accomplishing nothing except punishing the innocent.
That the police and FBI inflitrate peace and social justice groups is not news.
The REAL news here is that the police are defending the spying by saying that it is perfectly OK to spy, as long as they aren't physically stopping someone from speaking! There used to be word for this - "unmitigated gall" or "chutzpah", but now, I suspect the cops following SOP in our new, modern, post-enlightemnent world.
Civil liberties? Freedom from unreasonable search and seizures without probable cause? Oh, that's, like, soooo 18th century dude, like, do we still buy powdered wigs at the mall?
And you thought Bush's spying activities were actually conducted against FOREIGN "terrorists"? LOL.... there's this bridge in San Francisco I would like to sell you if you believe that.
In the last 7 and 1/2 years, those who so suffered repression, death and destruction at the hands of the Nazis have come to, under the banner of a (false) war on terror, and a false flag attack on this country by Mossad,
practice the same tactics and policies so criticized of the Nazis. Chertoff and Mukasey are at the top of this power structure now, supported by Addington and Zelikow. Outside of government, there are Frum, Wurmser, Kristol, Krauthammer, Perle, Miller, Safire....and on and on. Soon, there will be more and more of the "thought police", more censorship, and the loss of freedom of expression on the internet. Just ask Foxman....it is coming. The current set back to all of this is the recent ruling of the Supreme Court on the 2nd amendment. They will have to disarm us to win. But, they still try and try, like Schumer, Feinstein, Boxer and on and on......
Samson,
What do you think are the chances that spies have already infiltrated your group and in provocateur fashion, some would like to see violence?
Wouldn't Rush and the neocons find that their needed Trojan Horse?
Want peace on earth?
Prefer peace to war?
Against death penalty?
Wow, you're a very dangerous person then,
according to the present leadership of the U.S.
The Rethuglicans aren't called the WAR party for nothing. If you don't love death and war, you're considered to be a spy and an enemy of the U.S.
Way to go Maryland, the Gestapo reports for duty, Oh wait, they voted for a "D" executive right? It's all about safety - the need for more fascism in troubled times. Keep this in mind people, whatever state you are in, you start to make noise that authority doesn't appreciate, they have lots of ways to make things more miserable for you.
When our local secret police watched us vigil every week they always drove a late-model American car and always with a particular "School's Out" bumper sticker that no one else had.
Our Founding Fathers can roll over in their graves as much as they want.
Terrorists with tin badges. Will they give us another Kent State in November? It's odd how Right-To-Life Peace Officers are against Peace and Anti-Death Penalty Groups.
A friend of mine lives in the neighborhood where "recreate-68", a group organizing protests for the Dem Convention, holds their weekly meetings.
Last night, just like most other Thursday nights, if you walk through the neighborhood you'll see a car parked with the engine running with one or two men sitting inside. The car is always parked where they can see the door of the coffee shop where the meetings are held. And it always sits there until about the time the meeting would end, then it leaves.
Welcome to freedom and democracy in America!
(Its just a guess, but my guess is that if I found out where the Young Republicans meet I wouldn't see plainsclothes cops sitting outside of those meetings.)
any state or local authorities who aid federal agencies in constitutionally illegal spying on INNOCENT american citizens are TRAITORS and CRIMINALS and they deserve full prosecution and to be sentenced to long terms in jail, up and down the line of command. to posture lawful american citizens as anti-war "terrorists" is to brand 1/2 of americans terrorists. anyone who gives an order to spy on americans against our constitutional freedoms is a SCUMBAG, and anyone who follows an order to rob america and americans of their freedoms is a scumbag and terrorist.
unlike COINTELPRO, this time the american people arent going to let the criminals walk away. lawenforcement and politics are NOT above the law. THIS TIME THE LAWBREAKING SCUM ARE GOING TO JAIL, and they'll be needing large concentration camp type facilities to hold all the traitors in lawenforcement/politics who thought it was fun to ignore the law and harrass americans.