Obama Tries and Fails to Put Out the FISA Fire in His Own House

And after all your votes go to Nader and other third party candidates and McCain wins, then what? The Right realized a long time ago that the only way to change their Party was to take it over. On the Left it seems all we want to do is lose, whine and gripe. No viable strategy to win, nothing. And when McCain installs the next SCOTUS who you absolutely know will take away everything you have ever fought for and cared about - the environment, women's rights, gay rights, labor, etc. there is nothing you can do about it. We have NO idea the type of people a President Obama will pick but we can be assured of who McCain will pick. Then God help us all. No matter who is elected after that, we're all screwed. If you're willing to accept this scenario, then by all means, throw your vote away or stay home. Whatever happens will be whatever you deserve.

"...were really from the Obama camp or were Republicans who had logged..."
-personally, I love the one where you get accused of being a Republican for attacking Obama, in spite of hating them

"...clear-cut case of a candidate promising one thing and doing another."
-the man cannot be trusted and has no word, as far as I am concerned

"...you are taking our votes for granted because you know we have not choice but to vote for you..."
-oh hell no! Screw Obama and his DemocRATS!

"...you because you are the lesser of the two evils..."
-lesseroftwoevilism means if Hitler runs against McCain you support McCain!

"...I got plenty more voters and money!"
-what a scum bag-sorry

Vote McKinney, Nader, or 3rd party ABDR (anybody but a DemocRATic-Repub-LIC-an) Don't support RAT-LICs!

~DOUGWAGNER~. You say McCain illegally used campaign money to get a loan for his house. Is that a fact????????

Why would anyone need to do do that, who is married to one of the wealthiest wemon in the world?????? ___ Just askin Doug. Oh, was McCain ever arrested and charged for that crime?

I realize McCain is dumber than a stubbed toe, but is he that stupid?

I am as angry about the waffling and compromising as the rest of you are, but you can't solve the problems we have by voting third party or write-ins in November. It's too late for that now and we have many progressive candidates in the Dem party, like Kucinich who need to be re-elected, and first-timers like Donna Edwards who will be replacing a DINO if elected in November.

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face! A McCain presidency will spell the end of America and the end of any chance of turning things around before it is too late. Anyone who is serious about changing the system must start organizing NOW!

IT'S ALL ABOUT ORGANIZATION

This is the only way progressives can hold Obama's and the Democrats' feet to the fire, and at the same time, create a viable third party, the Green Party, and make the progressive voice heard. It would take a massive amount of organizing and cooperation, but it could be done, and I would love to be able to vote for progressive people like Cynthia McKinney and even Ralph Nader knowing that my vote was not putting Bush III in the White House.

First of all you would have to organize all the progressive outlets on a common thread and around a common mission. By progressive outlets I mean websites, news sources, blogs, radio and podcasts, and print media. I'm talking about MoveOn, CommonDreams, TruthOut, BuzzFlash, DailyKos, HuffPost, AirAmerica, NovaM, DemocracyNow, The Nation, Mother Jones and all the rest! I'm talking about an Internet Progressive Revolution here! This can't be done on a piecemeal basis!

And here is the mission -
Get every single progressive Democratic voter to change their registration from Democrat to Green. Even if we got eveyone to do this, we would not have enough to win an election, so they can, and still should, vote Democratic in November, but we would be well positioned to make demands on the new Democratic power structure by threatening them with mass losses in the 2010 elections for the House and Senate, as the entire House stands for re-election every two years, along with one third of the Senate.

By 2010, we could make the Green Party a viable alternative if threats are not enough, and should we still need it. I would hope that we don't need it, as the time available to make a course correction to save this country, and this world, is growing very, very short. We are in that proverbial quandary of an irresistable force on a collision course with an immovable object, and it ain't gonna be pretty! The perfect storm of financial and economic failure, war without end, global warming, peak oil, food shortages, water shortages, resource depletion and dying oceans is bearing down on us at breakneck speed and the ship's crew is either asleep-at-the-helm, or as another commenter said, trying to figure out how to make us pay for the carnage with our tax dollars!

Mike B. in SC

dougnwagner - 8:24 am

An antiwar candidate at the top of the ticket who respects rule of law is more important than endlessly criticizing a legislative compromise over telecom immunity [...]
__________________________________

Great idea! Do you know where we could find one?

Sigh, 2008 will be yet another "lesser of two evils" election. I'll vote for Obama with as much enthusiasm as I voted for Kerry (which was not much, needless to say).

I respect those who vote for 3d party candidates, but I won't thank you if we end up with President McCain.

Anyone who votes for a known liar does not deserve that vote, but deserves to be a slave of liars.

An antiwar candidate at the top of the ticket who respects rule of law is more important than endlessly criticizing a legislative compromise over telecom immunity to make a Naderesque critique- who by the way, is not committed to building a third party as his run in 2004 to get the Reform Party's nomination showed. At least Obama is committed to running on judgment on Iraq/foreign policy and pro-fair trade, against a pro-war free-trading John McCain.

"Reform of the Palestinian Authority -- finally underway -- can only be strengthened by the demise of the suicide bombers' paymaster in Baghdad. Change in Iraq and elsewhere will increase Israel's security, indispensable to achieving an enduring peace with the Palestinians."
-John McCain, 'A Fight for Freedom', March 23, 2003

Reality: Not recognizing the democratically elected Hamas as the legitimate parliamentary majority in Palestine has legitimated Israeli aggression against Palestinians in Gaza, and not brought Israelis or Palestinians closer to a peace settlement.

"Mr. Abbas has been ruling by decree since the Hamas takeover of Gaza. The Hamas-dominated Palestinian parliament has been paralyzed for months, with about half the Hamas legislators detained in Israeli jails. Palestinian officials in the West Bank said over the weekend that they had received a new list of 110 fugitives to be offered amnesty by Israel. A month ago, Israel and the Palestinians agreed on the names of 178 militants to be taken off Israel's wanted list, all members of the Fatah-affiliated Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades militia."

Isabel Kershner, 'Palestinian Leader Fires Dozens of Hamas Civil Servants', The New York Times, 8/19/07

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/world/middleeast/19mideast.html

I think the choice is clear.

What truly matters is the authenticy of the next president. John McCain took public financing and illegally used it to get a loan for his house, is determined to stay in Iraq until it looks like South Korea (while Afghanistan deteriorates), flip-flopped on his positions of the 2002 tax cut, is in bed with James Dobson, and will put another Scalia or Clarence on the Court.

And anyways, 527s undermine the principle of public financing. Obama cannot put his head underwater and fight the Republican attack machine. And the same is true of this FISA bill.

Is this the bill that is going to prevent lawsuits from being filed against the Bush Administration for violating civil liberties? no. The bill is a compromise that provides immuntiy to telecoms following the Justice Department's assurances that the Bush Administration's requests did not violate the law. This legislation reaffirms that FISA and its courts, not the Justice Department, is the ultimate authority for deciding the legality of an executive request of telecoms.

"The exclusivity provision makes it clear to any President or telecommunications company that no law supersedes the authority of the FISA court."- Barack Obama

"Now, I understand why some of you feel differently about the current bill, and I'm happy to take my lumps on this site and elsewhere. For the truth is that your organizing, your activism and your passion is an important reason why this bill is better than previous versions. . . I cannot promise to agree with you on every issue. But I do promise to listen to your concerns, take them seriously, and seek to earn your ongoing support to change the country." - Barack Obama

Get over it people. Civil liberties are constitutional. But understanding the details of the policy so you understand what is actually compromised (which aren't civil liberties, merely who you can bring suit against) and the stakes of this election are as well.

I believe this was a calculated decision on Sen. Obama's part to "move to the center" and deny the Republicans an issue to use against him. Part of me grudgingly accepts this is the "reality" of politics and audaciously hopes that a clearer-minded Obama is still inside there somewhere. [E.g. remember when Mass. Gov. Mike Dukakis came out against gay foster parents in 1988, disappointing many progressives, and after he lost to GHW Bush he admitted it was strictly for political considerations and not his honest opinion.]

However I think it was a miscalculation. I don't think he will lose that many votes to McCain or 3rd parties because of this (and other) moves toward the "center". The vocal folks here on C.D. are not representative of most Democrats. However what he is likely to lose is the ENTHUSIASM of his progressive base. Along with their enthusiasm he will lose not so much their votes but their $$ CONTRIBUTIONS. I am strongly tempted to donate much less than I was planning to over the next few months, as a result of his FISA position switch.

Sen Obama turned down public financing on the basis that he could count on his extensive base to keep donating. He may be shocked to learn that the generous donating was contingent on his positions and could not be taken for granted. Like I say: a miscalculation.

S T A R _ O F _ T H E _ S E A __ & __ T U R C E

Looking 'cross the boundless sea,
I bless fortuitously and see,

that iridescent brightness
all right en-lightness

glowing gem of flare
seeking meaning everywhere

"Star light, star bright,
The first star I see tonight,
I wish I may, I wish I might,
Have the wish I wish tonight."
Wikipedia embellishes: Though it's unsure if the superstition or rhyme came first, it is said that if one sees the first star visible as nightfall comes, they can recite this rhyme and make a wish upon the star.

May we be blessed as love swells: Dennis

Becoming the neoCONNING hell's: menace

Namaste « Presence »
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world » — Gandhi
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed » — Gandhi
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — ML King

Here's a bit of humor from the ONION:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aEURwsrUSQ

Obama is Bush in democratic drag

Although I have been screaming about the fraud that is Obama for a year now it
surprises me how right I was. I guess in my heart of hearts I hoped that he
truly WAS different and that all we would have to deal with would be his crazy
followers. Now I think HE is the one who should be afraid of them.
I am a strong Hillary supporter. As she was giving her concession speech I was
filling out my voter registration card from Dem to GREEN and as soon as she
finished I posted it straightaway. I want no part of any organization with Obama
at its head. Screw him. Got my card in the mail yesterday and now its official.
It's the democratic party in the rear view mirror for me.

starofthesea July 5th, 2008 9:57 pm
I am writing in Dennis Kucinich
*********************************************
I said just that on a post somewhere yesterday. When I talk with him and actuslly look in his eyes Truth is there. Not a wasted vote. Only wasted vote is one you don't use.

I am an Independent who has actively supported Obama's campaign. I can no longer do so. His integrity has been tapped out. His lies and deceits can no longer go unchallenged.

I have only had the opportunity to vote once for a Presidential candidate in the past 40 years. It wasn't apathy that prevented me from doing so. I do NOT vote for the lesser of two evils. I had hoped that Obama was a man of principle and honor. He has failed the test miserably.

Although I have never voted in protest nor have I ever voted for a Republican, I am considering that option, in the sense that sometimes things have to get much worse before they can get better. We'll see. In any case, I will NOT vote for Obama. Progressives have a new home… under the bus.

He had me at hope and change. He lost me with lies and deceit.

NoOneSpecial July 6th, 2008 12:29 pm
"Those on the left who expect ideological purity from their candidates are bound to be just as disappointed with Obama as anyone on the right who expects their own ideological purity."

This is about maintaining our Constitutional rights and not about ideological purity. Obama, a supposed Constitutional scholar, just agreed to delete part of it. Obama is ego driven, a Washington insider, and not fit to be President in this time of great upheaval and need. He lacks judgment!

"you know we have not choice but to vote for you"

Why can't Christine vote for a progressive third party candidate? Because she doesn't want to estrange herself from the capitalist establishment? Perhaps her family/friend hold the keys to the city. Can she not set some progressive terms in her contract with these people? I suggest she empower herself instead of empowering the capitalists.

"musicians who have figured out how to make modest livelihoods marketing their music directly to fans over MySpace, only to discover that doing requires spending hours every day maintaining the sort of direct relationship[s]..."

It's a society structured such that making a decent living and maintaining direct relationships are mutually exclusive. God Bless the United States of America! O'Bama, some audacious hope please to relieve our mass indignity!

Just as a side note reguarding Obama and the constitution: Obama is now having his people censor free speech on his youtube channel allowing only positive remarks to be posted and deleting anything negative about him. Even a well thought out arguement reguarding FISA, nothing vulgar, won't get posted. To me this is a violation of our most basic right and it really shows how much he cares about the rights that we are allowed. I sure hope some of the MSM catches on to this and let's him have it. I must appologize to a few CD members who were telling me and alot of other BO supporters he is a fraud... so Huck, you were right... I was wrong. He is a fraud and has lost my vote.

There is a good, wide range of response here. My take on Obama from the get go was that he was able to articulate a positive, yet safe message about a return to good governance. The more he was able to articulate this message, the better he did and the more support he got from a wide range of people. He really wasn't pushing that hard on the corporate/political world - not so hard that he needed to back off. It was his ability to sail with this wind that allowed him to win the primary as Hillary would likely have won had she followed a true grass roots strategy like Obama. At any rate, Obama had a very good and obvious game plan, one that I was excited to see him play against McCain and all the horrible drek of the Bush years. To see him becalm himself with this utterly needless capitulation to the worst impulses in America's political mind is just depressing as it is baffling. I know that it's easy to write Obama off as a tool of...you name it. But he clearly had a momentum here and now it's lost.Who forced him into that energyless position? The interesting arena now becomes how we diverse Obama supporters handle all this. I feel there is an active political world out there that won't be stopped. How it will form into a cohesive political force remains to be seen.

Two things I know.

1. Those on the left who expect ideological purity from their candidates are bound to be just as disappointed with Obama as anyone on the right who expects their own ideological purity.

That alone qualifies as a major "DUH!"

2. Anyone who got it into their head that Obama was really a member of the left is obviously naive. For that matter NONE of the Democratic hopefuls except Kucinich ever were. At best, even John Edwards was right-of-center.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

I find it amusing that with this kind of information available for a LONG, LONG time that any liberal who supported Obama has "buyer's remorse."

As someone said on another post on another board:

"It took the conservatives 30-40 years to change the country into their vision. The left expects the same thing in 2 weeks."

If the left can't get through to Obama now, it will be totally ignored after the elections. Once these politicians get elected, they post their mindless minions to guard the phones, screen their calls, and keep out the riff-raff--otherwise known as citizens.

Obama, while a great speaker with potential to grow in facing the inevitable crises this country is already ankle deep in, is an opportunistic, corporate democrat. Expect him to move consistently to the right. He is NOT a progressive and to expect him to be one will surely lead to disappointment.

Still, while I am tempted to vote for Cynthia McKinney, we have to realize that Obama is a better choice than McCain. The real question is do we really have that choice? Given that nothing has changed that would enable legitimate elections in the US, I expect McCain to be the next misleader in Chief.

What gets me about this piece AND all the comments is that everyone seems to be acting like the FISA issue is the only betrayal, albeit a big enough one to get a lot of people quite exercised. But what about his very right-wing speech to AIPAC, which sold the Palestinians down the river? What about his promise to the Miami Cuban mafia that he will maintain the embargo against Cuba? What about his suggestion that he was only kidding about being opposed to NAFTA? And environmentally he hasn't really changed--he always supported "clean coal" and ethanol rather than real solutions to the climate and oil depletion crises--and his promises to get us out of Iraq always came with asterisks.
It's a shame those resolving to take their votes elsewhere divide their already small heft into votes for Nader, McKinney, the socialist candidate, and a write-in for Kucinich.

We can do better...

FREE AMERICA

DIRECT DEMOCRACY

I posted a week or so ago about Obama riding the fence on some issues. Mentioning it was a matter of time before he had to make a move that would most likely show his true intent. Well, he made one of those moves with this bill. He's in, and your out. And now that he's in, it won't be the last time you see this flip. As my last post went, he'll show just what side he's really on. Have I said your out yet? Yep! he's a real lawyer, a real good lawyer at that.

Brian Moore, the Socialist candidate, will be on the ballot here in Florida. He has my vote. I encourage all progressives to vote for the left-leaning third party of their choice and not be hoodwinked into voting for one of the two corporate-controlled sham candidates. They are two versions of the same thing anyway. Yawn...

Someone once put it to me like this:
Do really think it matters which person the Mafia choose' to be the next Don?

When the men come with guns and threaten to incarcerate or kill you, give em "their cut" of your money (ie.taxes ) and then ignore them as much as possible.

At least for the most part we aren't forced to give up the fruits of our labor to the Mafia the government on the other hand well that's a different story isn't it?

Maybe voting has nothing to do with the problems we now face..

Obama is a useless shill for the corporate-military complex. Stop wasting our energies on that piece of shit DemoRat party.

Build a progressive third party.

Obama should take note of the base of his support, unfortunately I wounder with all the party loyalist around him, if he even knows whats going on with his base? Some how somebody needs to get his attention on the issues which we expect him to battle on. Somehow if a great number of his base feel they have been tricked ,they won't show up for the general election, my guess is that the McCain supporters will show up to vote for him no matter what.

The only thing that would scare Obama would be if AT&T asked for their money back. Thus, the immunity will pass.

Do us a favor, and don't write in Kucinich. That truly is a wasted vote. It leads to nothing and builds nothing.

Please vote Green instead. Political parties get status by the number of votes they get. In some states they get ballot access to the next election if they cross some threshold like 5%. And, if the Green's got 5% nationally then in the next Presidential election they'd get Federal matching funds for contributions.

So, while I like the sentiment of voting for Kucinich, please cast your vote for an existing political party and do them some good. And actually, while I respect Mr. Nader greatly, the same goes for his independent campaign. Please vote Green! Build a party for the future. Do something that help builds our choices in the future.

Well, well, well. For awhile now we've been hearing from the Obamabots that the advantage of a President Obama was that he could be 'pressured' into more progressive positions. That there would be the advantage of 'holding Obama's feet to the fire' once he was in office.

Well, how's that working so far?

Note very carefully Obama's position. He is so anxious to give away Americans constitutional rights not to be spied on, he is so anxious to expand the government's powers under FISA to spy on Americans, that he just has to give the companies that have given him about $270,000 legal immunity against much larger damages they might have to pay. And, as a side effect shut down the only investigation into what was really going on. With the Democrats in Congress acting to protect Bush's crimes, the only legal avenue that was moving at all was the civil suits.

But, Sen Obama doesn't care. The very best he can say is that he so wants to be able to spy on all of us that he just has to give that away. Or, you could assume he's a lying politician (pretty safe bet with his track record now), and he's perfectly happy to both give away our rights and do a favor for his big contributors.

Ain't life grand! Vote Green!

We already have a president who thinks the Constitution

is "just a piece of paper" . . .

why elect another one.

I'm contributing to Cindy Sheehan --

to Dennis Kucinich --

and Nader ---

I will be voting for a progressive I can really believe-Ralph Nader.

Why the pander to the worst president ever? Taking the opposite position should be standard procedure just to have any chance at logic and good government.

I am writing in Dennis Kucinich. My last vote for a lesser of two evils was Kerry in 2004. I may be slow to learn the folly of that prescription, but now that I have, I won't make that mistake again.

And I don't vote for an individual because I think they can win. I vote to make my own citizen's statement. Why else would I bother? To join a club? A club who doesn't give a damn about me and my concerns? The only change Obama represents is a complete change in ddirection now that he's the nominee. All I required of him to give him my vote was to restore habeus corpus and honor the Constitution. What a sad state we are in that he cannot even keep his word for a few months. How low can we go? Apparently a helluva lot lower than I ever dreamed.

Cynthia McKinney is no Barbara Lee. Kucinich only.

This is a deal breaker for it is the audacity of losing hope.

The only thing that will scare Obama is if people start talking about voting for Nader or McCain. If Obama is going to continue with the same neocon policies, then let the Republicans take credit for the destruction these policies will bring. Looks like the Democrats have decided to win the election with a crypto-Neocon. They can shove it. I never bought the Obama cool aid in the first place, but even I am shocked at the in your face flip flop. It reminds me of Chney saying "So?" (ie who cares and what you going to do about it anyways).

I've asked the Obama campaign for my money back. Apparently this is possible to do. Maybe if all us insignificant folk started ringing his bell and asking him for our "two bits" back, he'd realize the base he takes for granted isn't unqualified. I saw several posts at the campaign website indicating that others got the same notion and there is some activity toward refunds going on.

I am no longer inspired by Obama as I was in the beginning of his campaign, and even then I had my doubts that he could deliver on his "change" agenda. Sounds like we are headed for Clinton signatured "triangulation" and lots of waffling. I also don't believe that once elected, he will embrace his original position on getting out of Iraq pronto. He will keep Gates, pander to Petraeus, and go overboad to be "bipartisan." He will gradually forget those who worked from the ground up to propel his candidacy. Sad reality.

If this is the level of understanding and respect given to the constitution that Harvard Law produces it should be condemned, burned to the ground, and the earth upon which it stands salted so that nothing can grow there.

The problem is not that Obama has changed, it is that he was never a viable option for president in the first place. If he was honest, forthright, or courageous he would never have been allowed to last this long. Being the president of the Harvard speechifying club may mean you can get a ton of rubes to follow you by telling them what they want to hear but it is not indicative of an intent to deliver. One needs only look at the advisers he surrounds himself with to see where his real sympathies lie.

Vote Cynthia McKinney. She's Blacker than Obama, more feminine than Hillary, and has more balls than both of them put together. I'll be the first to admit she may not have a snowball's chance in hell of winning but if we don't stop voting for corporate shills in a two-headed one party monster then none of us have a chance of winning,.. at anything,.. ever again.

I only trust Kucinich, thats it.

I am constrained to repeat my comment on the previous Ostertag article, a response to the open question of whether Obama would "listen" to the justifiable negative feedback to his defective and equivocal FISA position (not to mention other non-progressive and anti-progressive positions)-- and if there's a perception that he's NOT listening, how can this be favorably reconciled with his ostensible "bottom-up" method of political action, especially vis-à-vis his campaign?
________________________________________

One reason I shy away from messianic politicians is that their campaign logic is disturbingly parallel to Sister Mary Elephant logic.

So, if they haven't already done so, I predict that Obama spokespersons professional and amateur will suggest that, like God, Obama HEARD the prayers of his children, but is unable to fulfill them because they do not comport with His divine purpose– the purpose fully revealed in The Book, if anyone has eyes to read and a brain to think.

And yet, in the fluid universe of realpolitik, Obama's will and purpose must inevitably remain obscure and mysterious to mortals. Thus, we arrive at a paradox– the Book that explains everything, and the spirit of Obama, which passeth human understanding.

IT'S THE CONSTITUTION, STUPID!!

I have been dubious of Obama since he got the nomination, but the FISA excuse and vote sickens me. He will not get my vote in the fall.

However, the thoughtful comments of people here, much better than Democratic Underground where Democrats are sacrosanct, are heartening.

Thanks for the smart thoughtful statements. They are correct and well informed! I agree with most of them in their entirety.

Tex Shelters

Senator Obama's new position on FISA is sadly disappointing to many of his supporters, and to me personally. I am striving not to allow that disappointment to overrule my support for this candidate, as I don't think of anyone as a one-issue candidate - however, his reversal on this is very painful. I know we are all allowed to change our minds from time to time - I just wish he hadn't done so on the Fourth Amendment, and, again personally, I'm a little heartsick.

Our best information comes from serious and sincere criticism, not from those who would pat us on the back.

It is my hope that Obama will realize this and pay attention to the many useful and valuable views that have been presented to him and his campaign over these last few weeks. I am not speaking about the 'one liner' stuff that is all over the net, but the information put forth by those who study and evaluate our current situation in all respects.

If an idea/position does not hold up, in relation to the basic principle of the Golden Rule, where there must be a real and practical evaluation and consideration of the facts and consequences of any given position based on the well being of humanity, that position must be abandoned and a higher more compassionate and principled one must be developed.

There are over 140 different formulations of the Golden Rule from all over our planet, from most of the various teachings, religions, cultures, and including many individuals. You can take a look at them at goldenruleproject.org.

It is a realizable hope that this principle could more and more enter our lives, both individually and collectively. It is very hard work to make it practical, and well worth it.

Our best information comes from serious and sincere criticism, not from those who would pat us on the back.
It is my hope that Obama will realize this and pay attention to the many useful and valuable views that have been presented to him and his campaign over these last few weeks. I am not speaking about the 'one liner' stuff that is all over the net, but the information put forth by those who study and evaluate our current situation in all respects.

If an idea/position does not hold up, in relation to the basic principle of the Golden Rule, where there must be a real and practical evaluation and consideration of the facts and consequences of any given position based on the well being of humanity, that position must be abandoned and a higher more compassionate and principled one must be developed.

There are over 140 different formulations of the Golden Rule from all over our planet, from most of the various teachings, religions, cultures, and including many individuals. You can take a look at them at goldenruleproject.org.

It is a realizable hope that this principle could more and more enter our lives, both individually and collectively.

Obama lost the trust of many of his supporters. They will never trust him again. The dog and pony show exposed his weakness. If you vote for him now you are just asking for more of the same. Look elsewhere.

I'll be voting for Cynthia McKinney, although it won't matter, because I live in California where the Democratic candidate always wins.

As will mine!

To quote Lady Liberty at thepriceofliberty.org:

"Of all the horrible things that Nazi Germany showed the world, perhaps the saddest was summed up by the Reverend Martin Niemoller in 1945 when he wrote:

'First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.'

In just a few sentences, Rev. Niemoller conveyed the tragedy of those whose own fear or apathy permits the destruction of things and lives others hold dear even as the eventual destruction of all they themselves love becomes more inevitable with precedent."

Obama's cave-in on the FISA-related legislation (and I have followed Glenn Greenwald's articles on this for a long time...) makes no sense to me unless he is pandering to the ignorant. Electronic/digital eavesdropping by the guvment, it seems to me, ought to be opposed by any corporate entity with propietary resources, etc.

No donation to Obama this year; my money will once again go to the ACLU.

-30-

Really...Obama already said Bush shouldn't be impeached because he has done nothing serious enough to warrant it. Doesn't that give a hint about Obama's commitment to (or understanding of) the Constitution? Should we be surprised?

This is an ultimate act of cowardice and Obama should never be allowed to forget that he did such a absolutely stupid thing. There are various opinions about terrorism, when to get troups out of Iraq, etc, but to trash the fourth amendment of theUS constitution for political expediency is unforgivable. Let him loose the election if he is so fucking stupid that he thinks, like John Kerry, that he can abandon his base and spit in their faces. I have said it before, it may take another loss for the Democrats to throw out all of their party leadership and start producing candidates that reflect the Democratic voting base.

whatfools, I posted on another articles subject, I found on the CD NEWSWIRE, The Peoples Constitution Campaign trying to just that, signatorys from across the country took a half page ad in the NYT yesterday. @ are from my area, Philly. Centers for Victims of Tortures Abuses. Mullen is speaking right now....

Obama is a politician. He is marketing himself. The only thing you can count on is you're going to get skunked sooner or later. I'd personally rather be skunked by Obama than any Republican, but... same old story. I'm getting the same feeling about this guy that I had with Clinton. He's a good speaker and appears to be sincere. Reality is he's operating on the old standard that you haven't got a chance if you piss off the power brokers too much. He's going to say what he needs to say to get elected then the brokers will tell him what he can't do.I wonder if the price of tomato juice will go up soon. It works for most skunkings.

Progressives of America: stop your fascination with Obama.
You think it's bad now, wait til he gets in.

He is only beholden to one power: corporate America.

Before we can elect the President of the country we need to have a country. Corporate greed and bribes have destroyed the one we all worked for. How about another constitutional convention?