Kucinich Forces Vote On Bush's Impeachment

Cindy Sheehan is one of my heroes. I have nothing but respect and admiration for her. I am proud we have Americans like her. Cindy has the values Jackie Robinson said we all should have to live by:
1. Courage
2. Determination
3. Teamwork
4. Persistence
5. Citizenship
6. Justice
7. Commitment
8. Excellence

I don't think we'll get Bush out in time. I do, however, feel deep enmity about the prospect of providing perpetual care for this CEO of the massive bankrupting of the American economy for the interest of crony captains of industry, this wholesale, bargain basement, goin'-out-of-business sale for the Great American Dream to the vast military-industrial (add energy) cartel. As well as owning the war machine Haliburton brags that they touch 90% of the oil produced in the world. Saw it right on their home page a couple of years ago. Think they have us by the national jewels? Hell, we can't afford to give them more than a slap on the wrist, or they could just bitch slap us back to the stone age. Quickly.
I think Dennis has had the right idea all along. But like Watergate, if these guys can just slowly chink away at the armor, keep picking into the brains of the Scott McClellans, drag the press (kicking and screaming) into a fray that might, god-forbid, side them with liberals, dig out that smoking gun, that would be the slo-but-sho. Allow us to recoup some of our losses and run the money-changers from the temple of Democracy. For a minute.

I cannot but agree...WHEN DO WE START? And how do we get them away from the TV screen, their SUVs, i-Pods, soccer games, debt councelors and gas pumps?

willybill (12:24) - I think it's time for 5-10 million Americans to be marching to DC. Nothing short of that is going to accomplish anything, & we shouldn't be kidding ourselves about that.

That's what it comes down to -- relying on Establishment parties to do the right thing is equivalent to the public's acquiescing to all sorts of criminality.

RichM June 12th, 2008 11:51 am ..Cynical as I am, This is one time I prefer to be optimistic with DK's approach. Short of about 5-10 million Americans marching to DC (doubtful that will ever happen unless they cancel American Idol), do you have any better ideas? No one else in CONgress is doing a damn thing.

Even as I was writing the above, this new article just appeared:

House Waves Off Impeachment Measure Against Bush by Laurie Kellman

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/12/9576/
___________________________________________

It's only an AP report, but FWIW it doesn't reference any 30-day deadlines; it just repeats the obvious truth that the Democratic leadership doesn't want to touch it with a ten-foot aluminum tube, and that the measure has indeed been tossed to the back of the committee closet to rot.

Once a co-worker teased me when our Regional Director distributed hand-written Christmas cards, and wrote "I appreciate your efforts" on mine, among other pleasantries.

"Appreciate your EFFORTS?-- Sounds like he's telling you that you haven't gotten anything ACCOMPLISHED!"

So when I sincerely say that I appreciate Kucinich's efforts, this double meaning comes to mind.

I expect that most people have seen cartoons or comedies in which a little guy rushes up to a big galoot, swinging his fists as he comes, and the big galoot calmly reaches out and holds his attacker at arm's length, while the little guy keeps windmilling away without even getting close to landing a punch.

This strategy, which may well be the best in a range of impossible options, seems like the above-cited scenario, except that the little guy keeps coming back for more. More power to him, but so far Congress hasn't knuckled under to the wishes of We the People out of shame or embarrassment. The media will continue to treat Kucinich as an oddity; at this late date, feckless corporate media editors are far likelier to preach the "sensible" alternative of abandoning impeachment in the context of the Historic Erection taking place in November.

Not putting Kucinich down, not arguing with Turce-- just sayin'...

Note that the procedure Kucinich outlines is that nothing happens for 30 days (while the bill is buried in committee), then he says he'll introduce the same resolution again. Then nothing happens for 30 days, etc etc.

This is a very tame approach, to put it mildly. If you're serious about a legislative initiative, you don't so easily agree to a procedure that will basically condemn the thing to 30-day death periods.

Nope. Turce's post is based on what Kucinich himself says, which is not always reliable. For example, I heard Amy Goodman interview Kucinich in 2004 about why he was supporting Kerry, & why he agreed to renege on his promise to oppose the Iraq War "all the way to the Convention." His response was simply a bunch of feeble double-talk, just like his present rationalization for why he himself voted to bury his own impeachment bill in committee.

It's not a "solid strategy." On the contrary, it will come to nothing, as Kucinich knows perfectly well.

An unanswered question is why Kucinich decided to move for Bush's impeachment now. All 35 of his articles could have been written a long time ago. The whole thing has more the flavor of stunt, than a serious attempt to impeach Bush.

RichM June 12th, 2008 11:28 am ..Not true..please check Turce's post above. He has a solid strategy.

Turce,

Thanks for the explanation.

Regards,
Claudius

kman2 (9:21 am) asks, "How do all you CD anti-Obama/anti-Democrat people explain your support of Democrat Kucinich and his support of Obama? .... I am sure someone in the CD intelligencia will explain the contradiction of supporting Democrat Kucinich but not supporting Democrat Kucinich's endorsement of Obama ..."

- Sure, no problem. It's a very subtle concept, though, so pay careful attention. // The first principle is that 99% of all Democrats are corrupt spineless worms -- nothing more than Republicans in drag. Most do not even make the right noises. However, Kucinich is somewhat of an exception, to the extent that he sometimes at least makes the right noises.

Nonetheless, Kucinich too is very imperfect, and his worst feature is that he is still a loyal Democrat, which makes him cave in on matters of principle whenever it conflicts with party loyalty. This is why, for example, he promised his followers in 2004 to fight against the Iraq War "all the way to the Convention," then meekly caved on that position, the week before the Convention, and wound up speaking from the podium without even mentioning Iraq. In 2004, the supposedly "antiwar" Kucinich thoroughly supported the prowar Kerry. That's why he's supporting the not-really antiwar Obama this year.

Similarly, party loyalty is why he voted yesterday to refer his own impeachment motion to committee, where it will surely die, as he knows perfectly well. Though his 35 articles of impeachment were accurate, his voting for referral indicates that it's largely just a stunt to dupe some fools into believing that "some Democrats are seriously anti-war."

kman2 June 12th, 2008 9:21 am ..If you are looking for "logic" in politics, you will most certainly be VERY disappointed. Endorsing Kucinich and supporing or not supporting Obama because Kucinich has "approved" of him is simply a matter of personal choice. Where is it written that I must support a candidate who is endorsed by someone I support. Kucinich has his reasons and I have mine. Individualism and free choice...a wonderful concept, eh?

re kman2 9:21am

don't know if i qualify as "CD intelligencia," but will attempt some "logic."

supported kucinich as the only D whose words didn't weasel. rejected hillary/obama/edwards when kucinich was excluded from "debates" without a mumbling word of protest from any of them.

what contradiction?

Should the American People let the Second Shrubbery walk out of the Oval office with a smirk and a Texas swagger after eight years of disservice to the oath he took, the office of President and the People of America and the world, it will be another huge strategic and tactical blunder from which America will take a hundred or more years to recover.

You've got brave, courageous men and women with spine there standing up for what you all say you want. You must back Kucinich up, or the Office Obama takes will be a hollow office, of little value or meaning and essentially empty of power and authority. If you truly want Obama to be the great president you think he'll be, send him a clear signal that betrayers of the oath of office will not be tolerated. Orange jump suit will suit Bush well.

How do all you CD anti-Obama/anti-Democrat people explain your support of Democrat Kucinich and his support of Obama? Kucinich has supported Obama since January. If you support Democrat Kucinich you are supporting an Obama person. If you don't like Obama then you should not like Kucinich either.

I am sure someone in the CD intelligencia will explain the contradiction of supporting Democrat Kucinich but not supporting Democrat Kucinich's endorsement of Obama with some "logic".

Turce June 12th, 2008 12:46 am ..Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this answer. I've passed it on to everyone on my list and would ask all on this thread to do the same.

Republicans may be the real enemy, but it also true that the democrats enable them. Just why is it that democrats don't filibuster?

The Democrats have not taken full control of the Congress since the early sixties. Democrats have not taken full control of the Government since the thirties. So please do not pin all of the USA problems on Democrats. The truth is that is the Republicans that have controlled the USA for the majority of the 20th century and exacerbated its problems in the first decade of the 21st century. An individual should never vote Republican again - as they have screwed the USA over time and time again. But Democrats...no! Certainly, not nearly as bad as Republicans have. Why do you think a "do-nothing Congress" is happening right now? Because the Republicans will not compromise! The Republicans KNOW that they no longer control Congress (THANK GOD!) so they will filibuster in the Senate and prevent Congress from overriding vetoes for the purpose of ensuring that the Democrats "do nothing." So CD - lay off the Democrats please. Republicans are the real enemy...

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!

We now have a ONE party system. Anyone who even votes needs mental help. You won't see Impeachment even after Obama continues the war. He will be just as guilty as anyone. Mark my words.
We need to WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES!
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS IN SUICIDE MODE! No one wants McCain another war monger.
THE DEMOCRATES WILL FINISH WHAT THE REP. STARTED.
Pres. Clinton caused the first real dammage with NAFTA. Now they want to make his wife V.P.? Obama thinks we are all suckers.

Kucinich's action is great, but it has a symbolic feel to it now, as nearly the entire Democratic Party leadership shrugs off impeachment.

Remember how the ABC network, steward of the public airwaves, excluded Kucinich from the Presidential debates? Golly gee.

The people have spoken. They want Obama. It's Obamamania time with his bold moves, like praising Ronald Reagan, threatening to bomb Pakistan, siding with the government of Israel as Israeli tanks roll into the Gaza Strip.

Oh, those crazy ideas of Kucinich! What the American people really want is the sensible, empty, hopeful rhetoric of Obama. What a democracy! Keep voting for those who keep impeachment off the table, otherwise you might get John McCain as President. The will of the people must be respected by excluding those who represent the will of the people. Yep, that makes sense somehow to Democratic Party-voting loyalists who are fired up about Obama who's kept his mouth shut about war crimes while advocating a few war crimes himself.

Turce June 12th, 2008 12:46 am
Thanks for the informative post, please keep us abreast of what's happening.

We elect Democrats to end the war and reign in the corporations. Instead they (Pelozi, Rahm Immanuel, and others) hoard their 'chips' and do nothing.
Kucinich, Russ Feingold and Bernie SAnders (I) are a few of a very small group that have any courage to do what is right. America needs others viable political parties, desperately.

Thanks for explaining the way Kucinich voted.

Ghawar-nice, the questions you ask are important for all people to understand. Why would local media totally ignore historic legislation by their own congressperson?
Well maybe ALL MEDIA )msm( Is Owned By The Same Interests That Control American Media. conspiracy theory anecdotes anyone?

The question to me is: Is the effort required for impeachment worth it? To me, it is, because I think BushCo is so dangerous, and it sets a good precident (which we don't have now).

I'm fairly illiterate in parliamentary procedure. Can someone tell me why DK voted to table the motion and send it to committee? Is this a move to keep it active and from being killed on the floor? If so, the same move sure did not help in the motion to impeach Cheney. from WillyBill

Today after a bunch of us from Veterans for Peace met with John Conyers to deliver petitions from 10's of thousands we went and met with Dennis at the Capital Bldg, he explained what occurred. He made apriveleged Resolution for Impeachment, this must be sent directly to Committees. He is giving them 30 days to review, if they do not reply in kind he will bring it to the floor , he is giving us the exact calender date next week, again but this time it will contain 60 Articles, if same occurs again with 90, again with 120....
He will not stop until our Constitution is adhered to regarding Impeachment , again reminding all of the system of checks and balances. He has asked us to urge this Nation to call their Congressperson, make sure to urge them to read all35 Articles and consume the meaning, give them 30 days , ask their position, if ambivalent ask them to read again and remind them of their oath to uphold the Constitution and to not Impeach is in direct violation of their oath of office. Call Pelosi and be respectful yet firm in urging Congressman Conyers that this is a matter of our nation not allowing their leaders to become more like that of an oligarchy which our forefathers needed to be upheld, they no longer wanted a King ergo checks and balances.
Repeat all steps until we do it. Go to Dennis's site to find out more.
We have another meeting scheduled within the next few weeks with Congressman Conyers where he promised to share his intent on the matter of Impeachment.
should be stuff on YouTube and The Real News by tomorrow.

Re: Kucinich vote on his motion -- a resolution can only be brought up again by a member voting in the majority on the resolution.

And Kucinich has promised to bring this up again.

Applying common sense to the matter by way of common knowledge ,It sounds as if the reading took longer than the entire process should have taken. What we know is that they are guilty, of every charge or accusation made. They should have to (prove there innocence) just like anyone else that is charged with a net worth less than 2 billion. What an insult these blow hard ,ego maniac's are to the American peoples intellect.

Thank you Dennis, you're the man! The problem is that asking the Democrats to impeach Bush is like asking the Lakers to fire Phil Jackson. Not going to happen. Not in your wildest dreams.

Why on Earth would the Democratic-Republican Party impeach its own leader? There is no opposition party, that ones a fable. The left wing of Democratic-Republican Party has cut a deal with the right wing of the Democratic-Republican Party. The right wing gets 8 years of unopposed rule in exchange for allowing the other wing to occupy the White House and carry out the exact same policies for 4-8 yrs depending on how faithful they are to the Republican agenda. Part of the deal entailed the left wing supplying a candidate the looked different from the right wing candidate. Hence a woman and a "black" man.

You want an empty suit? I give you Barack Obama.

You want leadership: Nader and Dennis Kucinich.

I back the impeachment but what exactly will it mean for Shrub and Dick? Can someone versed in Constitutional law chime in?

I agree with Claudius. We all need to back Cindy Sheehan in any way we can.

Nancy Pelosi needs to be sent a VERY clear message from the American People on Election Day.

I'm sending Cindy Sheehan some money right now and I'm in Long Island!

The time has come to demand of those people who call themselves your reprisentitives just what they would consider an impeachable crime???????
I asked my representitive CHRIS MURPHY of ct just such a question,and guess what he wouldn't answer me,I wonder why ??????
I hope that all of you who are reading this post will ask your reps the same question especially Nancy Pelosi that same question and demand an answer !!!!!!
Are there no crimes against you or humanity that she or they would care about,so why not open all the jails as no prisoners have perpertrated greater crimes than those in power in the USA today - millions killed and displaced for greed and lies all of our congress critters are complicit in these crimes unless they use their power to stop them.
As for Impeachment taking up too much time,I amsure that the docket must be clear so that the Democrats can fund more money for this ILLIGAL IMMORAL WAR than even the republicans have asked for while pretending to be against the war.
Or prehaps they make a fake effort to help the unemploied as OBAMA promises 30 billion to ISREAL to continue their imorall illigal wars against the Palasines and Lebenon. Or prehaps AIPAC will want to pardon the Isreali spies ? or perhaps the will want to move the US capitol to Jeroselam so that they can't be spied on when they give our lawmakers their instructions,in any case the congrassional callender must be open to any whim of AIPAC at any time !!!!!!!!

Failure to impeach and prosecute the current administration tells the world that it is going to be business as usual for the USA.

Obama can talk about "change", but to the rest of the world those are completely empty words unless change is seen to be underway. Failure to prosecute indicates that the democrats either condone what has been done - or don't condemn such behaviour as they intend to continue in the same vain.

the united states has become the atithesis of what it proclaims as its philosophy. the installation of bush junior was laughed at by most of the world - the son of a president/vice president/head of the CIA being elected - largely by some dubious results in the State of Florida - governed by another Bush. - Press around the world joked that it looked like an election from a banana republic.

Since then it's been illegal invasions, use of illegal weapons. Illegal detention, "renditions", unlawful trials of prisoners, the firing of judges, torture, spying on it's own citizens - from tapping phones to monitoring what books are being borrowed form libraries. Protesters routinely arrested - tazered, being banned from travelling etc.

If anything positive can come of the devastaion that Bush and Co. have caused, it will be that american citizens are now aware of how their succesive governments behave.

Destabilising, invading, organising coups etc. There is no other country that has so systematically harmed other countries for it's own benefit.

These most recent and blatant examples are no suprise to south american countries - or Cuba, Vietnam, The Middle East, Indonesia or most of Africa. Hopefully now that US citizens are aware how things are done they may feel some responsibility and pressure their politicians and representatives to do the right thing.

Impeachment was never meant to be a tool for Congress to achieve political objectives -- it is the constitutional remedy to remove rogue leaders who abuse their power. The people do not have the power of recall in this country for its highest offices. It is only through Congress, the so-called people's house, that we can hope to halt such abuses of power and for justice to be served.

It is no less reprehensible for the Democrats to refuse to impeach on the basis of perceived political advantage as it was for the Republicans to impeach Clinton for purely political reasons. Just because the Republicans used it for political ends does not mean that impeachment is now and forever a political tool!

As for whether or not impeachment would push Bush/Cheney to attack Iran, I think at this point, they are planning to do it no matter what. Our best hope (and one that is diminishing with the resignation of Adm. Falon) is for the military to refuse to obey such orders on the basis of their illegality. Impeachment hearings would give them a leg to stand on in terms of questioning the legal nature of such an attack. I do believe this is why Kucinich felt it was important to bring forth these charges.

And screw you, Steny Hoyer!

Nancy Pelosi sold out America, she needs to be fired and jailed with the little deserter and his crew.
America, change it or lose it.
cindyforcongress.org

this man is a true hero, Mr Kucinich, BRAVO!
and HE will be remembered

vs the great grandson of the devil
Aliester Crowley,
gw3rd what a joke

God prevails,
not their perverted image of The Leviathan

Viva El Frente

Crazy. Such a noble and right thing DK did in bringing these 35 articles, however, apparently at the end of the day he is just a politician - judging by his vote. Reminds me of the guard sheepdog and the big bad wolf greeting each other as they clock out at the end of the day.

I still signed the petition to remove Pelosi and would encourage others too.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?everyman&1

It's never too late to do the right thing! Thank you, Dennis.

Kucinich is doing the right thing.

Everyone not in the house or senate (we the people) who agree with him should notify their congressman and senators that optional consumption will stop until the Kucinich articles of impachment receive the attention they deserve.

Commerce and government depend on maximum consumption and the tax revenue it generates to keep the machinery of foreign intervention lubricated.

Kucinich is great, and as Bush has said;
"you're either with 'em, or against 'em" so line 'em up and we'll see which side their on -- on the record (and hold them accountable).

The democratic party would rather win than be right.

I see it with Obama and Hillary supporters. Always telling others that their candidate can win. But can they say what their candidate's voting record is? Probably not. Neither one has brought one basic important legislation to the floor, must less got it passed. So much for leadership.

Posters on this site claim that they know what Obama is thinking, while disregarding his actual comments and votes. They should be wearing a magican's turban.

What are your top 3 important issues? What is Obama's pubic position on them?

If your top issues are: Beating McCain, repeating the mantra that you want to bring change, and break the color barrier, than Obama may be your man.

If your top issues are ending the war, universal health care, bringing peace to the middle east, ending the death penalty, protect the environment even if it effects business, stopping corporate corruption, impeachiing war criminal presidents, and you are still supporting Obama, then I want the koolaid that you are drinking.

Please, someone who supports Obama, please give me a list of his accomplishments. And I'll give you a list of Nader's accomplishments.

Give me a list of what Obama proposes that you support, and I will give you a list of what Nader proposes.

Not only are the articles that are posted here contrary to my concept of a common dream (unless accepting the crap that is being offered is a common dream that I don't share), and many posters as well seem to have the same 'dream.'

When people say, they don't want Obama to further to the left, I always check it again becuase I would think that it is a joke. But no, they are being perfectly serious.

WAR is real, death is real, and final. Our country is no different than Nazi Germany, allowing innocent civilians to die because we don't care enough.

so it goes,

Thank you Dennis. Except for you and a few other exceptions, Congress is just about worthless.

The American Democracy belongs to those who can buy for it, and those who cannot are merely consumers, not citizens.

Serious hardship is now hitting families with a powerful negative impact. As the true nature of the economic structural bankruptcy of the American family becomes fully realized, confidence in the economy will collapse and greater hardship will ensue. A completely corrupted government lacks the ability to take corrective action, even action that is too late. We morphed from cooking an evil stew to being the evil stew.

Its refreshing to know that Dennis Kucinich has the guts to hold leadership accountable. For when we march lock step with the rest of flock in full view of the precipice we cease to live. I'm left scratching my head as to how Clinton could have been impeached for sexual indiscretions that he lied about, but the war in iraq which cost hundreds of thousands of lives, unaccountable billions and torture is sent to die in the judiciary committee. Forget about political payback these are real atrocities. Let's not forget about voter suppression and attorney firing. What's the matter with the democrats. Aren't they at list worried about their own political lives. All i can say is those who control our conglomerated, monopolized and military embedded media control the message.

.
Mark Pelosi and Hoyer as "enablers" of this continued "Bush-Cheney" madness. Both Bush and Cheney have deserved to be Impeached for the last two years (the Democrats majority in the House).

Dump Pelosi and Hoyer!!!!!!!!

IMPEACH both BUSH and CHENEY......IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

Letter to Steny Hoyer:

Rep. Steny Hoyer
House Majority Leader
H-107 Capitol Building
Washington, D.C. 20515

June 11, 2008

Congressman Hoyer,

I am writing to express my sincere belief that at this time, there is nothing you could possibly spend your time on in the House that is more important than proceeding with impeachment proceedings against this president, as Congressman Kucinich has so aptly proposed.

No other president has abused his office with such blatant disregard for the truth, integrity, and our Constitution. There is ample evidence of egregious lies and wrongdoings, and criminal conduct, for which it is your duty to see to it that he be held accountable. All any of us citizens are asking is that the law be upheld, that you and your fellow congressmen take your oaths more seriously, and do not allow this president or any of his minions, get away with trampling on our Constitution as well as the intent of the laws of our land.

President Bush and his people are expert in misinformation, manipulation, creation of self-serving laws, continual usurping of our rights and freedoms, backward justification for doing whatever they please, doublespeak, and outright deception and lying. They have given birth to a cancerous wound in our country that must be dealt with if it is not to spread unspeakably out-of-control, to our eternal shame as well as to our very destruction.

I call upon you now to grasp how vital dealing with their actions has become. The longer they are allowed to get away with what actually amounts to murder, the greater the precedent is set that this outrageous untenable conduct is acceptable. It is not acceptable, sir, absolutely nothing about it is acceptable, and they must be stopped and held accountable to the full extent of the law, and this job, this restoring of the public trust and of our very country rests with you. I implore you, congressman, do your patriotic duty, and rise to the occasion.

Sincerely,

Linda Ann Alvarez, citizen and patriot

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

Had an afterthought, or postscript to my earlier comments above.

The mere mention of the name Steny Hoyer reminds me of the day before Congress was to cast a vote for House Majority Leader.

I saw Pennsylvania's Jack Murtha on "Hardball with Chris Matthews"(MSNBC) discussing the upcoming vote. I'm vague on the details but opponents of Murtha were resurrecting something of past years that alluded to Murtha taking some kind of a bribe from some Arabs. At the time that it had occurred, he had been totally cleared of any wrongdoing.

In a thorough interview surrounding the subject, Matthews, who is head and shoulders above most of the so-called political analysts, caused Murtha to further explain the details of what had happened and convincingly re-affirmed his innocence.

Yet, the next day there was not a sufficient number of fellow house members to elect Murtha over Hoyer, simply because of the balance of the news media, in updating the past allegations, offered a distorted view of the facts as they were actually presented and Murtha's "colleagues" were fearful of what was conjured up to form public opinion.

I have been saying for months; Hillary CAN'T take down Obama; McCain CAN'T take down OBama but the news media WILL
take down OBama!

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

Had an afterthought, or postscript to my earlier comments above.

The mere mention of the name Steny Hoyer reminds me of the day before Congress was to cast a vote for House Majority Leader.

I saw Pennsylvania's Jack Murtha on "Hardball with Chris Matthews"(MSNBC) discussing the upcoming vote. I'm vague on the details but opponents of Murtha were resurrecting something of past years that alluded to Murtha taking some kind of a bribe from some Arabs. At the time that it had occurred, he had been totally cleared of any wrongdoing.

In a thorough interview surrounding the subject, Matthews, who is head and shoulders above most of the so-called political analysts, caused Murtha to further explain the details of what had happened and convincingly re-affirmed his innocence.

Yet, the next day there was not a sufficient number of fellow house members to elect Murtha over Hoyer, simply because of the balance of the news media, in updating the past allegations, offered a distorted views of the facts as they were actually presented and Murtha's "colleagues" were fearful of what was conjured up to form public opinion.

I have been saying for months; Hillary CAN'T take down Obama; McCain CAN'T take down OBama but the news media WILL
take down OBama!

glenn goodman,

I hear what you are saying. I am sure as you know the Dems think they will gain more numbers in the House and Senate, in addition to winning the White House, so they can implement their "better" plans for the country. To me, it is disgraceful, unpatriotic, and a dirilection of duty to not punish those who commit war crimes (i.e. Bush Admin). The problem is the Dems are complicit and hope the American public will put the atrocities that have happened the past eight years behind it. I say hell no!!!

Kucinich was my choice for president for real change in foreign policy. Obama is my current vote in desperation for hope but without expectation of anything different on foreign policy front.

Little Brother and Willybill,

I too agree with what you are saying. I remember reading an article a few months ago where DK said it was important to support the Democrats, which left me (I am sure many others too) somewhat puzzled. He has some strange sense of loyalty to the Party (please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he is up for reelection this year, which might have something to do with it). But clearly there is some ulterior motive for this bizarre voting pattern. It definitely raises a question.

This is so infuriating. John Conyers says that he will begin impeachment proceedings AFTER Bush starts another catastrophic war. That's like - though much much worse - Vincent Bugliosi saying "if Manson kills any more people we will bring murder charges".

Why not impeach these murderers while we still have a country to do it in?

Steny Hoyer, Nancy Pelosi, John Conyers,
Not a good use of the congress's time? Saving the world isn't a productive use of time? Preventing WWIII isn't a worthy endeavor for you sniveling bastards who pretend to be an opposition party? Honoring your oath to protect the Constitution and your country isn't on your pathetic agenda?

Then get the hell out of the halls of Congress and let someone else save our butts!

claudius June 11th, 2008 5:59 pm ...I hear what you are saying. Thing is, he voted exactly the same way with the articles against vader. There's a stRAtegic ploy here that I believe we are missing. I may be wrong..just trying to figure this out. No doubt it's dead in the water, one way or the other. Although, we can drive that traitor Conyers insane and demand he give it a PROPER hearing. THIS should be our next strategy, despite DK's plan. Innundate Conyers with emails and calls. Here are the Clinton articles of impeachment....http://www.davidstuff.com/usa/impeacharticles.htm

And here are the articles against the shrub...there is NO COMPARISON

http://chun.afterdowningstreet.org/amomentoftruth.pdf

Getting to committee = tossed down the Memory Hole

There must be an up side I don't see. :mad:

Well, I'll be all gone. "Truthmonger" got out of the gate in a hurry with a 12:03 post and took the wind out of my sails.

I was about to address a question to Steny Hoyer from a slightly different angle which would have been, "Sir, what would you like to show us as an example of when the Democratically controlled Congress DID NOT waste time since it went into session in January 2007"

Whadda they say....six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Living in Texas, I wasn't too familiar with Dennis Kucinich until he ran for president in '04. Following his failure to secure the nomination, I remember he appeared with David Letterman. After they chatted a bit, he took off his jacket and shot some hoops with some other guest who was a professional basketball player.

THis year, he again popped up with Dave, but it might have been while he was still in the race. I don't believe that Elizabeth was either in the audience of the "Green Room"; in lieu of that, Dave asked, "May I show a picture of you and your beautiful wife?" Dennis allowed that he might. As Dave held it up before the camera, Dennis quipped, "You will observe that in this photo, I am wearing my elevated shoes"

Ya gotta love the guy. He may be little but he's got big balls. (Of course, you know I'm talking about basketballs, AREN'T I??)

Well, I'll be all gone. "Truthmonger" got out of the gate in a hurry with a 12:03 post and took the wind out of my sails.

I was about to address a question to Steny Hoyer from a slightly different angle which would have been, "Sir, what would you like to show us as an example of when the Democratically controlled Congress DID NOT waste time since it went into session in January 2007"

Whadda they say....six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Living in Texas, I wasn't too familiar with Dennis Kucinich until he ran for president in '04. Following his failure to secure the nomination, I remember he appeared with David Letterman. After they chatted a bit, he took off his jacket and shot some hoops with some other guest who was a professional basketball player.

THis year, he again popped up with Dave, but it might have been while he was still in the race. I don't believe that Elizabeth was either in the audience of the "Green Room"; in lieu of that, Dave asked, "May I show a picture of you and your beautiful wife?" Dennis allowed that he might. As Dave held it up before the camera, Dennis quipped, "You will observe that in this photo, I am wearing my elevated shoes"

Ya gotta love the guy. He may be little but he's got big balls. (Of course, you know I'm talking about basketballs, AREN'T I??)

I'm seeing double again; maybe I should be a little gentler when I click "Submit Comment"

Oh, by the way, Samson, I hate to rain on your parade but the only way Obama is gonna see the inside of the White House is either if he gets a dinner invitation from the McCains or on a guided tour to the public.

You know, if Delilah catch you foolin' around with Cindy, she ain't gonna just trim your hair, she gonna scalp you.

Sorry, got ahead of myself before I could proofread it.

Before people condemn Kucinich for voting against impeachment and to answer WILLYBILL'S question, I suspect DK did so because he knew it would be the same result as the vote for impeaching Cheney: the bill goes to committee to extend its length. Most likely, it will die. At the same time, as names are read, there are many Reps. with last names beginning with letter A - J, and when people in DK's Party keep voting "nay" until they get to his name, he knows its fate, so why vote in favor of it? Maybe, God forbid, he did it to show Party solidarity (why?) against the Republicans who voted in favor of debate. Maybe he saw its futility and gave up. It could be for any number of reasons. But, what is most important is he demonstrated true statesmanship by doing his sworn duty, which very, very few in his Party ever do.

Earth to Congress, there is NO MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT FACE THIS NATION!!

Besides, if you impeach the guy who keeps either vetoing all of your progress, or changing your intentions with signing statements, a large portion of your so called "more important matters" would virtually vanish.

You should all follow the lead of the ONLY one of you who has obeyed the oath of office you each swore to uphold.

IMPEACH! PROSECUTE!

truthaddict June 11th, 2008 5:21 pm ...I am fairly sure this is a parliamentary procedural strategy. He did the same thing with the impeachment articles against Vader. If it stayed on the floor, it would have been killed dead in it's tracks..this way, it at least gets to committee. I'm looking for verification on this. Anyone?

DEFEAT -IST SCUSE ME

AdeleTheCzech June 11th, 2008 1:58 pm
Did you watch Prof. Jonathan Turley on Countdown this week? A constitutional scholar, he made it clear that Bush (and Cheney) are utterly impeachable on a large number of counts.

That being said, I am VERY WORRIED about the idea of starting impeachment proceedings. It is hard to imagine that these two men, who have perpetrated so many criminal and unconstitutional acts, would be able to resist a "wag the dog" scenario regarding Iran. Most CD readers are well-educated and aware: how many of you out there think we could stop B&C from attacking Iran if their backs were to the wall? This is the stuff of nightmares!

I believe we should devote all our energies to preventing an attack on Iran (or any other nation) — and let the international community dispense justice to these two men after they leave office.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the exact response the Bush administration WANTS to hear. This is exactly why they've gotten away with too much for too long. This is a deatist mentality, "oh well it's too late," "oh well they might attack Iran so we can't do it." "we can't do it, it'll cause trouble for the General Election."

Bullshi@#$ Just absolute Bull12#$@

This election, these possible futures, are nothing compared to the atrocities this administration has caused in their both preoccuption with personal gain and absolute incomptence and inability to empathisize with the average american let alone civilzations and humanitarian interests abroad.

Damnit all - the country is so rife with discontent, we've only seen the beginnings of it in the embrace of Obama, is not so much for his own talent as it is a hunger for true leadership! Now is not the time to hunker down and "let things play out." If not for Kucinich the Democrats would still be afraid to even speak of ending the damn war.

Damnit all - If any of you out there were taught to pledge allegiance to the flag, if any of you out there were educated in the great traditions our forefathers has given us as Americans - you would be damn pressed to support and see this Impeachment through.

Fruition ladies and gentlemen, is the realized success of an endeavor - and for too long the Bush FEAR MACHINE has duped the spirit of the common man and the common good so as to perpetuate their own interests. This has served TOO FEW for TOO LONG - write, talk, scream, rave about impeachment, it is one of the last great hopes for this nation.

I just read this on democraticunderground.com

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add...
Title: I really think Kucinich forget one very important article of Impeachment

"There should be one about politicizing the Justice Department,firing the USAs, selective prosecutions, dismantling the Civil Rights section, numerous Hatch Act violations, hiring civil service positions based on political affiliations, sending completely unqualified people to Iraq to head important ventures although unqualified (like the 25 year-old (? something like that) with no experience who was picked to head the Iraqi Stock Exchange.

I'm talking about basically dismantling the concept of civil service and turning all departments into politicized arms of the White House.

I didn't see anything about any of that in the list, and that is some of the stuff that upset me the most."

HOW BOUT THE USE OF WHITE PHOSPHOROUS, a CHEMICAL WEAPON, against the civilians of Fallujah?!?!

How'd D miss Cool seen it, MISS THIS MOST GLARING of CRIMINAL escapade by the Bush administration. There were 0 prosecutions related to the use across numerous city blocks of a chemical that melted flesh to bone of the Iraqi's who suffered so egregious a fate. If it was low level service members who made the call to use chemical weapons against civilians, do you suppose those legally hapless individuals might have been prosecuted for putting so nasty a face on Bush/Cheney/Corporate Murder Industries war? When enforcement shows up to prosecute those low lying war criminals, they will sing unless Cheney has warned them ahead of time what will happen to their children.

Joining the Libertarians is no answer. Libertarians are just neocons who never struck it rich. I do agree with Ron Paul's stand on the war, but his economic plan is sooo Adam Smith and so full of bs.

If there were EVER a time for impeachment, these are the offenses for which the Founding Fathers tried to protect us. Not to pursue impeachment essentially sanctions Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bolton, Rice, Libby, Gonzales, et al. In our name they have caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Iraq, displaced millions of other Iraqis, cost us trillions of dollars, enriched their friends, ruined our reputation in the world, ignored our being a signatory to the Geneva Conventions, tortured prisoners, held people without charges, spied on Americans, fired US Attorneys who wouldn't do their bidding, and on and on and on. To say Congress doesn't have the time or the inclination to take this all the way to a full investigation and vote is to to say that they don't have the guts for the job or the will to do what must be done. To allow Bush and company to leave office without answering to the charges would be as bad a stain on our record as what they have done. Would we have ever let Hitler simply resign, retreating to his country home to live out his years without being punished for his gross offenses. As they say, where is our moral outrage? Just what WOULD it take to get us to stand up for ourselves and for future generations? This is not just an issue for our country. Bush and his team have screwed the world. IMPEACH NOW!!!!

History will vindicate Kucinich. Its too bad we have to wait for that. If Congress would take action on this, we wouldn't be talking about Iran!

With all the time, energy, & money spent on the presidential candidates the past year... the real efforts should be on changing out Congress! If we don't replace these birds, we're in deep do-do.

rocyahsoul June 11th, 2008 5:18 pm ...Do you seriously think they could control, arrest, tase, or shoot one million or more citizens?? Even the military in this country is not that insane. NUMBERS ARE OUR ONLY HOPE. WE HAVE THE POWER!!

This is the one thing that scares the crap out of these cowards and ALL COWARDS...that they will be called on their bullyism. The fear is built into the system. They KNOW they cannot stop an uprising of MILLIONS. STOP buying into the fear! Reclaim your own humanity!

The majority of the Congress and all the leaders of the congressional committees are traitors. They have betayed their oath to defend and protect the Constitution. They consider this supreme duty of theirs as interfering with other priorities and not the best way to spend their congressional time. And they say it with straight face and without shame. First and foremost in this Hall of Shame is Nancy Pelosi. I hope she will get what she deserves from Cindy Sheehan in November.

kucinich is an effing coward. he voted against his own bill. he folded and toted the party line. the dems dont represent us. they represent the ruling class just like the repubs. they made themselves clear louder than they did in 2006 when after they were handed control of the house they ignored the reasons they were voted in.

ThinkForYourself "Why can't we?" (citizens arrest Bush)

Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, eventually their lead cousins, propagandized police, corrupt Judiciary...

Every member to that party would be crying, lumped up, raped if the Miami protest is any indication, then jailed, possibly indefinitely. What do you suppose congressman criminal Obama thinks about citizens deposition?

You think a blitz on Bush would be forgiven by the next Nazi regime to subdue this land and her nearing intelligent riders?

I'm fairly illiterate in parliamentary procedure. Can someone tell me why DK voted to table the motion and send it to committee? Is this a move to keep it active and from being killed on the floor? If so, the same move sure did not help in the motion to impeach Cheney.

Most of Congress shares equal responsibility, both constitutional and according to international law, for the war crimes thus why would they act to impeach ?

The Whitehouse, Congress and the corporate media are one and the same and complicit in many of the issues related to impeachment. Remember that 151 members of Congress hold stock in military industrial corporations. And making a wild guess I would expect even more hold stock in Big Oil.

But in a perfect world, key players from the above institutions and the Pentagon should be water boarded until all questions are truthfully answered. And let's not forget the key neocons and lobbyists.

And then we might borrow a guillotine from the French and begin the next American revolution !

Read em' and weep:

Article I
Creating a Secret Propaganda Campaign to Manufacture a False Case for War Against Iraq

Article II
Falsely, Systematically, and with Criminal Intent Conflating the Attacks of September 11, 2001, With Misrepresentation of Iraq as a Security Threat as Part of Fraudulent Justification for a War of Aggression

Article III
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction, to Manufacture a False Case for War

Article IV
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Threat to the United States

Article V
Illegally Misspending Funds to Secretly Begin a War of Aggression

Article VI
Invading Iraq in Violation of the Requirements of HJRes114

Article VII
Invading Iraq Absent a Declaration of War.

Article VIII
Invading Iraq, A Sovereign Nation, in Violation of the UN Charter

Article IX
Failing to Provide Troops With Body Armor and Vehicle Armor

Article X
Falsifying Accounts of US Troop Deaths and Injuries for Political Purposes

Article XI
Establishment of Permanent U.S. Military Bases in Iraq

Article XII
Initiating a War Against Iraq for Control of That Nation's Natural Resources

Article XIIII
Creating a Secret Task Force to Develop Energy and Military Policies With Respect to Iraq and Other Countries

Article XIV
Misprision of a Felony, Misuse and Exposure of Classified Information And Obstruction of Justice in the Matter of Valerie Plame Wilson, Clandestine Agent of the Central Intelligence Agency

Article XV
Providing Immunity from Prosecution for Criminal Contractors in Iraq

Article XVI
Reckless Misspending and Waste of U.S. Tax Dollars in Connection With Iraq and US Contractors

Article XVII
Illegal Detention: Detaining Indefinitely And Without Charge Persons Both U.S. Citizens and Foreign Captives

Article XVIII
Torture: Secretly Authorizing, and Encouraging the Use of Torture Against Captives in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Other Places, as a Matter of Official Policy

Article XIX
Rendition: Kidnapping People and Taking Them Against Their Will to " Black Sites" Located in Other Nations, Including Nations Known to Practice Torture

Article XX
Imprisoning Children

Article XXI
Misleading Congress and the American People About Threats from Iran, and Supporting Terrorist Organizations Within Iran, With the Goal of Overthrowing the Iranian Government

Article XXII
Creating Secret Laws

Article XXIII
Violation of the Posse Comitatus Act

Article XXIV
Spying on American Citizens, Without a Court-Ordered Warrant, in Violation of the Law and the Fourth Amendment

Article XXV
Directing Telecommunications Companies to Create an Illegal and Unconstitutional Database of the Private Telephone Numbers and Emails of American Citizens

Article XXVI
Announcing the Intent to Violate Laws with Signing Statements

Article XXVII
Failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas and Instructing Former Employees Not to Comply

Article XXVIII
Tampering with Free and Fair Elections, Corruption of the Administration of Justice

Article XXIX
Conspiracy to Violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965

Article XXX
Misleading Congress and the American People in an Attempt to Destroy Medicare

Article XXXI
Katrina: Failure to Plan for the Predicted Disaster of Hurricane Katrina, Failure to Respond to a Civil Emergency

Article XXXII
Misleading Congress and the American People, Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change

Article XXXIII
Repeatedly Ignored and Failed to Respond to High Level Intelligence Warnings of Planned Terrorist Attacks in the US, Prior to 911.

Article XXXIV
Obstruction of the Investigation into the Attacks of September 11, 2001

Article XXXV
Endangering the Health of 911 First Responders

What we really need in Washington is more like Kucinich.
That will not happen by voting for a "Republicrat," no matter what their shape, color, size, sex, or whatever.

So-o-o-o-o

I am on my way to the Libertarian Party web site to sign on. The time has come for a third party. No more hoping for the best and voting the lesser of two evils. I will vote what I believe in and feel better on November 7th rather than feeling disappointed.
At least I will be voting for real change. Washington DC belongs to the corporate money interests not to the people of America any more. The rest of you can keep wishing but the "change genie" will not come out of this bottle on November 4th. The corporate machine has once again paved the way with money . . . .
If you really want change . . . Then do what you can by starting and changing your self and your vote. Pick a third party and go with it . . . Or follow the herd and vote "Demoricans."

Thank you, Rep. Kucinich for taking your responsibility to "uphold the Constitution", seriously.I am sorry my Representative, Anna Eshoo is not supporting your effort. I just called her office and got a lecture about "tearing the Country apart" among other non-sensical drivel.
Nice that it is an election year.

I just called Hoyer's office, male answered phone and told him I was an American citizen and I support the Impeachment of Bush. Asked him if Hoyer's office was being bombarded with calls, the man said yes... Please also sign the petition to have Pelosi removed as not doing her duty to uphold the Constitution and start hearings on impeachment. Don't forget Bastile Day could happen here not just in France!!

REF: willybill June 11th, 2008 12:45 pm

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?everyman&1

Willybill, thank you for the link to the petition to impeach Nancy Pelosi since she has refused to begin impeachment proceedings against Bush and/or Cheney. I certainly hope more of you here on Common Dreams will also sign the petition. I also want to thank Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich (D-Ohio) for escalating his battle against the administration this week by introducing 35 articles of impeachment against President Bush, using a parliamentary maneuver that will probably force a vote today. Let's see if we can collect 1,000,000 signatures before the end of this week!

Wouldn't you love to sic Hannibal on Bush and Cheney and watch as he devoured every last morsel of their wretched beings?..Good! Now I feel a little better! Feel free to add any descriptive phrases to this post. We may as well add Reid, Hoyer and Pelosi to the dinner.

"House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) suggested yesterday that engaging in a lengthy debate over impeaching Bush in the waning days of his administration is not a productive use of the House's time"

I guess the House's time is better spent cornholing teenaged male pages .

It was absolutely BRACING to hear Dennis Kucinich's impeachment charges against Bush read by the House Clerks tag-teaming it on C-SPAN last night. I had been watching Olberman and Turley and then thought-- "I'll bet it's live on C-SPAN!" Sure enough. 5 hours of droning on and on about Bush's crimes might seem like it would be boring but it wasn't boring in the least. I found myself applauding each Article.

My husband said, "This is the epic poetry of our time."

Isis bless you, Dennis!
Curses of Set upon Bush, Cheney and their criminal ilk!

NOW HERE THIS!!! NO SURPRISES!!!
http://rawstory.com/news08/2008/06/11/house-voting-to-send-impeachment-r...

fuck this whole fucking system!!! I'm dropping out!!!

35 articles of impeachment and the Washington Post couldn't even list one of them in their stingy little "report"!

And even though I do not live in Cindy Sheehan's district, I send her campaign money.

Actually Samson, as a Democratic voter, you don't even have to use your brain. Just drink the kool aid and all will be well. Ignorance is the opiate for many among the masses.

IF Kucinich had done this last year, that would have been a 'profile in courage'. Last year this might have mattered. Now its too late and its just media showboating. Which is why Pelosi et al are letting it happen now. Its too late and they know they've successfully 'run out the clock'. So, they are happy to get a couple cheap headlines that perpetuate the farce that the Dems are actually an opposition, and they know it won't amount to anything.

Its a vote of the members of the House that determines the Speaker. Its also a vote of members of the House that can remove a member from that body.

You just saw all the Democrats just line up and approve of what Pelosi is doing.

Thus, if you want Pelosi removed from either the Speakership or her House seat, then you must elect members of Congress who will do this. And this now clearly does not mean electing Democrats. If you want this, you must elect members of Congress who are not beholden to these same interests. This means you must stop voting Democrat.

To remove Ms. Pelosi from Congress, the most straightforward method is to support Cindy Sheehan's independent campaign to defeat Ms. Pelosi in her district. That not only would remove Ms. Pelosi from the Speakership and her House seat, but it would send a very powerful message as it is unheard of for a Speaker to lose an election like that.

www.cindyforcongress.org

I'd suggest finding time to go to SF for the last weeks of the campaign to volunteer if you really want Ms. Pelosi to go home.